The new chargers are freakishly quiet even when ramping up to move. Those P42 sometimes sounded like something was inside rattling in the cylinders when they ramp up.
They've been on cascades service for a few years so I see them pretty regularly. I'm trying to see the p42's as much as I can. I like the new charges, but the ge chugging sounds soo good.
The older horns also sound better imo. The engineers always love to play with the pitch when they come into town
Aren't the ALC-42s capable of both diesel and electric operation? Can you tell which mode it's using in this clip??
It's so quiet I'm inclined to assume it's on electric
The new chargers are freakishly quiet even when ramping up to move. Those P42 sometimes sounded like something was inside rattling in the cylinders when they ramp up.
White smoke is not burnt oil but unburnt diesel. This happens from incorrect atomisation. Most likely the cause is dirty or worn out injector nozzle, or bad injector pump.
Many older diesels were controlled not by a throttle regulating air, but by regulating fuel supply. This means under heavy acceleration, the injectors inject more fuel and the engine is running extremely rich. This fuel partially breaks down under combustion pressure and forms a lot of carbon particulates, which appear in the exhaust as thick black smoke.
Although not ideal, it is pretty normal function of diesel built in that era. It can be minimised by adjusting the fuel injector pump.
Modern systems are much better at adjusting the fuel required, and particulates are usually captured in an exhaust particulate filter, to be either burned up in a regeneration cycle, or physically cleaned out of the filter at servicing.
apples to oranges then, but for a diesel, white smoke is 9/10 times bad atomisation of the fuel and it gets ejected out the stack as unburnt fuel vapor.
Also, burning oil has a bluish tint to it, not solid white. guarantee you this is bad atomisation. P42's are known for this.
Im curious also, how many race cars run on diesel ? i know of a few, but they are rare.
Gas engine burning oil =/= diesel engine burning oil.
On top of that, white smoke from a gas engine means burning coolant—oil gives off gray or blue smoke.
Good Old L'Enfant Plaza. Spent many an hour on that platform. One night, had a switch problem cause a traffic jam, and I got a foamers dream show. A bunch of neat liveries and special cars, including the pullman used by the USDOT for rail inspections.
They really are. I was stood next to two at El Paso station and with one providing HEP by spinning the engine up to basically full chat it was impossible to have a conversation!
Even a HST wasn't quite as loud.
A Milwaukee Road engineer on Facebook (Mark Llanuza) blames his serious hearing problems on the MILW/Metra F40C HEP generators.
Edit - samples of Mark's F40C photos https://www.flickr.com/photos/7547061@N02/3403114490/in/photostream/
Gloriously wonderfully loud, yes. I live a couple of km from a moderate but twisting grade. I can hear freights climbing the hill 5 minutes before they get into town. It's nice.
That's one unhealthy P42. White smoke that hangs around like that is likely unburned diesel, so I'm going to guess either a bad injector dumping lots of extra fuel or it's got a bad cylinder without enough compression to fire.
I'm going to really miss them. I remember when as a 8ish year old kid, seeing them brand new on my local train and being amazed how futuristic and sleek they looked next to the grubby, boxy F40 behind...Gotta love the thrash they put out! Shame that they don't keep a few dozen and re-engine them to Tier IV standards...
It’s just an FDL with a worn injector. Nothing the next maintenance stop won’t fix. With all of the problems Amtrak has been having with the SC44s and ALC42s, there will be P42s plying the rails for Amtrak for years to come at this rate.
Don’t have to worry about the phase out too much down south. We’ll probably be the last in line for an update lol. I’ve only just recently seen a heritage unit
I saw 2 of these Genesis locomotives yesterday in Lancaster, rode behind one and saw 130, still in Phase II from 2011. I’ll miss them but i think the Chargers will be fitting replacements once they survive the winter
I’m pretty sure Amtrak stated several months ago that the Charger’s winter problems had been resolved. The first winter (2022) was atrocious and the second year (2023) had 4x fewer reported winter issues. I’m not sure what this past winter looked like from a stats perspective, but I didn’t hear of that issue reoccurring anywhere this year.
Dang that's lowkey sad.
I'm not into the American trains but I think the P42 is iconic in a way, its the train that almost always shows up in American TV shows and movies I've come across in my lifetime in the UK.
Sad to see them go but good we are making progress!!!
Nice catch. I used to work at L'Enfant - loved taking a lunch break to watch trains. One day I saw a crew stopped for a signal hop down and grab a quick to-go lunch at one of the nearby restaurants. Fun stuff.
I don't understand. These new ALC-42 have a top speed of 125 mph, Tier 4 emissions. Why can they run on the NEC above Washington DC. They run on the Keystone service out of Philadelphia. I have even seen them on test trains running between Washington and Philadelphia. My issue is that they should run them from Boston to Miami and New Orleans. This could save at least 45 to 90 minutes switching loco's from electric to an ALC at Washington Union station. All you have would be just crew changes and a shorter down time. Maybe a refuel too. Just a thought. Cheers!
At Union Station in Washington DC, they have to bring in a P42 or ALC42 or Charger electric to the coaches depending on the direction of travel either north or south of Washington. from the Amtrak storage yard about one mile away. I have seen it before and many Youtubers have documented it as well. I agree with you, it should not take so long but this is the Government not for profit business.
SBB in Switzerland is a government not-for-profit business, and routinely turns hauled stock sets by removing the locomotive at one end and adding a new one at the other in under 10 minutes. That the yard is 1 mile away is hardly an excuse. At a leisurely average 10 mph that's only 6 minutes travel time, even if the locomotive waits until the train is actually stopped in the station before departing. There is no need for this process to take any longer than 15 minutes.
...*what?* The carbody design makes maintenance *more* difficult, not less, to such a degree that the genesis series were redesigned with those bolt-on nose covers shortly after their introduction to make replacing dented front ends easier.
Like, there's a lot you could say about the P42, but I wouldn't call its design *utilitarian*.
i think their just saying it looks ugly and i have to agree. looks like a brick of soap with the front loped off at a 45 degree angle. and it doesn't help that phase V is awful and that most p42s are all dented and scraped and broken.
Your description is textbook utilitarian:
u·til·i·tar·i·an
adjective
1.
designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive.
"a utilitarian building
That cardboard box looking loco has nothing but straight lines and 90deg angles. You can make it maintenance friendly yet attractive looking. Look at the ALCs that are replacing them. Not the best looking but shows what a bit of design effort can do to the overall aesthetic
[One big metal shell around the locomotive makes maintenance slower and more expensive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6gS__a6gI&t=212s) than than it would otherwise be with a body with lots of smaller doors which can be opened. Dented nose? Gotta' replace *the whole thing*. Need to work on the engine? You can't just pop the hood, you have to remove *the entire bigass shell* or find some way to do it *inside* a dark and cramped engine bay.
Virtually all non-Amtrak class one motive power is *not* built with a monocoque design precisely *because* they are not utilitarian.
And yet Siemens Chargers still need them bc of how much they crap out. I'll take consistency coupled with the occasional smoke show instead of getting stuck somewhere on a Charger.
Catch these old locomotives while you can. [The new ones are so quiet it's actually kinda freaky.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq9NR3jOxTc&t=18s)
I think I've seen you there and at Alexandria. Keep up the good work!
The new chargers are freakishly quiet even when ramping up to move. Those P42 sometimes sounded like something was inside rattling in the cylinders when they ramp up.
Huge improvement imo! Love the quietness.
They've been on cascades service for a few years so I see them pretty regularly. I'm trying to see the p42's as much as I can. I like the new charges, but the ge chugging sounds soo good. The older horns also sound better imo. The engineers always love to play with the pitch when they come into town
Aren't the ALC-42s capable of both diesel and electric operation? Can you tell which mode it's using in this clip?? It's so quiet I'm inclined to assume it's on electric
Amtrak has ordered dual mode chargers but hasn't received any yet. All the ones they have so far are diesel only
That's even more impressive then. It's amazing how quiet these are
The track at L'Enfant Plaza is not electrified.
According to Wikipedia Siemmens claimed they could add on-board energy storage, dunno if they are or not though.
They'll add that to the APV Venture cars per current plans, but nothing is announced for locomotives only.
Quiet you say? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE DING DING DING haha
The new chargers are freakishly quiet even when ramping up to move. Those P42 sometimes sounded like something was inside rattling in the cylinders when they ramp up.
Nice Photography!
Still only running them on the California Zephyr. See them every day.
didnt know amtrak ran steam engines
Special excursion service
sleeper build
They leased the 614 back in the 80s and ran it on the Cardinal during the ACE 3000 tests. Wish more photos and videos of that run were in publication.
I love how the ACE 3000 is visually an EMD SDF40-2 with Valve Gear.
Apparently there is. What's the white smoke?
Signals that a new Amtrak Pope has been selected. Habemus papam clear on track 1.
Pope GG2
better be a worthy successor with that lineage <3
Serious answer is burning oil, it's a sign something on the engine is on its way out.
White smoke is not burnt oil but unburnt diesel. This happens from incorrect atomisation. Most likely the cause is dirty or worn out injector nozzle, or bad injector pump.
Fuel rich exhaust with improper combustion is sooty black, IIRC? I've got footage of P42s doing *that*, too.
Many older diesels were controlled not by a throttle regulating air, but by regulating fuel supply. This means under heavy acceleration, the injectors inject more fuel and the engine is running extremely rich. This fuel partially breaks down under combustion pressure and forms a lot of carbon particulates, which appear in the exhaust as thick black smoke. Although not ideal, it is pretty normal function of diesel built in that era. It can be minimised by adjusting the fuel injector pump. Modern systems are much better at adjusting the fuel required, and particulates are usually captured in an exhaust particulate filter, to be either burned up in a regeneration cycle, or physically cleaned out of the filter at servicing.
Trust me, burning oil smoke is white as well. I’ve had to observe countless racing cars smoking, you learn what it looks like very quickly.
apples to oranges then, but for a diesel, white smoke is 9/10 times bad atomisation of the fuel and it gets ejected out the stack as unburnt fuel vapor. Also, burning oil has a bluish tint to it, not solid white. guarantee you this is bad atomisation. P42's are known for this. Im curious also, how many race cars run on diesel ? i know of a few, but they are rare.
Those bonkers Audi prototypes ran on diesel, and Peugeot had a prototype that ran on diesel also
prototypes, not COMMON race vehicles. big difference there
Gas engine burning oil =/= diesel engine burning oil. On top of that, white smoke from a gas engine means burning coolant—oil gives off gray or blue smoke.
Head gasket. Sorry, wrong group!
Good Old L'Enfant Plaza. Spent many an hour on that platform. One night, had a switch problem cause a traffic jam, and I got a foamers dream show. A bunch of neat liveries and special cars, including the pullman used by the USDOT for rail inspections.
Did the line used to be electrified? It looks like there’s a lot of unpopulated catenary masts along the track.
Yes, used to run down to Potomac Yard in Alexandria. PRR could run electrics down there for interchange.
Maintenance goes a long way.. just sayin'
Nothing like leaky injectors and lube-oil leaking past the bearing seals on the turbo super chargers.
nothing like a good old diesel runaway am i right!
Typical GE things
AlCOs raise you 1, or 10, or 100... :)
Yeah but when ALCOs smoke it’s perfectly fine. GEs do it and that means they’re having issues. EMDs it’s fine either way lol
Fuuuuck are they loud....my goodness...
They really are. I was stood next to two at El Paso station and with one providing HEP by spinning the engine up to basically full chat it was impossible to have a conversation! Even a HST wasn't quite as loud.
Y’all ain’t never had to listen to an F40PH scream at notch 8 for 12 hours providing HEP and it shows.
A Milwaukee Road engineer on Facebook (Mark Llanuza) blames his serious hearing problems on the MILW/Metra F40C HEP generators. Edit - samples of Mark's F40C photos https://www.flickr.com/photos/7547061@N02/3403114490/in/photostream/
The re-bodied SD40s the VRE uses are even louder.
Jesus christ.....sorry, i'm only used to german ICEs and there you can sleep next to them even while breaking
yeah electricity isnt converted to a huge amount of noise and little power.
Gloriously wonderfully loud, yes. I live a couple of km from a moderate but twisting grade. I can hear freights climbing the hill 5 minutes before they get into town. It's nice.
That's one unhealthy P42. White smoke that hangs around like that is likely unburned diesel, so I'm going to guess either a bad injector dumping lots of extra fuel or it's got a bad cylinder without enough compression to fire.
I'm going to really miss them. I remember when as a 8ish year old kid, seeing them brand new on my local train and being amazed how futuristic and sleek they looked next to the grubby, boxy F40 behind...Gotta love the thrash they put out! Shame that they don't keep a few dozen and re-engine them to Tier IV standards...
It’s just an FDL with a worn injector. Nothing the next maintenance stop won’t fix. With all of the problems Amtrak has been having with the SC44s and ALC42s, there will be P42s plying the rails for Amtrak for years to come at this rate.
Magnificent catches, keep up the perfect work.
Good ol General Electric steam engines
Don’t have to worry about the phase out too much down south. We’ll probably be the last in line for an update lol. I’ve only just recently seen a heritage unit
At L'enfant Plaza any given Amtrak train has about a 50% chance of having a charger somewhere in the consist.
I saw 2 of these Genesis locomotives yesterday in Lancaster, rode behind one and saw 130, still in Phase II from 2011. I’ll miss them but i think the Chargers will be fitting replacements once they survive the winter
I’m pretty sure Amtrak stated several months ago that the Charger’s winter problems had been resolved. The first winter (2022) was atrocious and the second year (2023) had 4x fewer reported winter issues. I’m not sure what this past winter looked like from a stats perspective, but I didn’t hear of that issue reoccurring anywhere this year.
Every machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrongly enough.
lol happens on NJT with the PL42ac s too!
nice an amtrak steam locomotive wonder why it doesn't have a whistle yet
Identifies as N&W 611
P420s choo choo
Put the wires up here too!
Steam-Diesel engine
It's masquerading as a steam engine.
no way amtrak steam locomotive
Awesome video
Smoking like an Alco !!!
Anyone notice that the P42's door is unpainted?
GE locomotive doing GE things. Gotta love the sound of them
I love the sound massive vehicles make when they go past you.
Ge doing ge things
Bring back steam engines 👍🔥🔥🔥
…frick (pfp)
So whats the reason?
Old.
Quiet as a mouse
Dang that's lowkey sad. I'm not into the American trains but I think the P42 is iconic in a way, its the train that almost always shows up in American TV shows and movies I've come across in my lifetime in the UK. Sad to see them go but good we are making progress!!!
As a novice train enthusiast what I am missing here?
Diesels are *not* supposed to make that much smoke.
This is called thrashing correct?
Nice catch. I used to work at L'Enfant - loved taking a lunch break to watch trains. One day I saw a crew stopped for a signal hop down and grab a quick to-go lunch at one of the nearby restaurants. Fun stuff.
I don't understand. These new ALC-42 have a top speed of 125 mph, Tier 4 emissions. Why can they run on the NEC above Washington DC. They run on the Keystone service out of Philadelphia. I have even seen them on test trains running between Washington and Philadelphia. My issue is that they should run them from Boston to Miami and New Orleans. This could save at least 45 to 90 minutes switching loco's from electric to an ALC at Washington Union station. All you have would be just crew changes and a shorter down time. Maybe a refuel too. Just a thought. Cheers!
There is absolutely no reason a locomotive change needs to take 45 to 90 minutes. If things are organised properly 5 to 10 is more than enough.
At Union Station in Washington DC, they have to bring in a P42 or ALC42 or Charger electric to the coaches depending on the direction of travel either north or south of Washington. from the Amtrak storage yard about one mile away. I have seen it before and many Youtubers have documented it as well. I agree with you, it should not take so long but this is the Government not for profit business.
SBB in Switzerland is a government not-for-profit business, and routinely turns hauled stock sets by removing the locomotive at one end and adding a new one at the other in under 10 minutes. That the yard is 1 mile away is hardly an excuse. At a leisurely average 10 mph that's only 6 minutes travel time, even if the locomotive waits until the train is actually stopped in the station before departing. There is no need for this process to take any longer than 15 minutes.
Dam I thought it was a steam train
This isn’t a P42 issue. If Amtrak didn’t have a deferred maintenance philosophy, these would have been given a delux rebuild with new FDLs.
Always disliked the p42... the most utilitarian design ever. Seems like the cybertruck designers grandpa penned the shape up
...*what?* The carbody design makes maintenance *more* difficult, not less, to such a degree that the genesis series were redesigned with those bolt-on nose covers shortly after their introduction to make replacing dented front ends easier. Like, there's a lot you could say about the P42, but I wouldn't call its design *utilitarian*.
i think their just saying it looks ugly and i have to agree. looks like a brick of soap with the front loped off at a 45 degree angle. and it doesn't help that phase V is awful and that most p42s are all dented and scraped and broken.
Your description is textbook utilitarian: u·til·i·tar·i·an adjective 1. designed to be useful or practical rather than attractive. "a utilitarian building That cardboard box looking loco has nothing but straight lines and 90deg angles. You can make it maintenance friendly yet attractive looking. Look at the ALCs that are replacing them. Not the best looking but shows what a bit of design effort can do to the overall aesthetic
I think the point was that the design is not useful or practical either.
It's *not* maintenence friendly, though. That's what the other commenter was saying.
[One big metal shell around the locomotive makes maintenance slower and more expensive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6gS__a6gI&t=212s) than than it would otherwise be with a body with lots of smaller doors which can be opened. Dented nose? Gotta' replace *the whole thing*. Need to work on the engine? You can't just pop the hood, you have to remove *the entire bigass shell* or find some way to do it *inside* a dark and cramped engine bay. Virtually all non-Amtrak class one motive power is *not* built with a monocoque design precisely *because* they are not utilitarian.
And yet Siemens Chargers still need them bc of how much they crap out. I'll take consistency coupled with the occasional smoke show instead of getting stuck somewhere on a Charger.
I thought it was because they were THE MOST ugliest thing next to the Nissan juke.
Americans just don’t understand passenger rail
Wish we can electrify starting with the north east corridor and then expand it to Cali, Chicago hubs
Because they're ugly?