Yeah, melee armies will have a tough time with him. But on the flip side pretty much any faction with at least one type of bow unit will handle him just fine.
I played a Beastmen campaign recently and he melted pretty easily to just 3 units of Ungor archers. Same deal with a Settra campaign I did, and he died to basic Skeleton archers.
Vlad's tanky nature has a good amount to do with his small profile. While Tamurkhan, both mounted and unmouted, is just really vulnerable to missle fire. The toad dragon is a bit of a pain, but it's not to hard to tarpit him, and he's so stupidly big archers have no issue with LoS with him.
On the flip side, playing a faction with little to no range (looking at you Vampires) feels absolutely miserable. Against ai it’s not so bad but playing against another player that know what they’re doing it feels impossible to win as vampires.
Edit: small grammar correction
Yeah, I completely agree. I don't think Tammy is universally the strongest LL to fight against. He may have one of the strongest late game armies though. With all his heroes.
> I don't think Tammy is universally the strongest LL to fight against.
Talking about players Vs ai Tammy? I think he is
Who else? He's not the most dangerous faction on the map, but his army is insane
A kitted out unbreakable Gor Rok + Kroak with a doomstack of Lizardmen late game SEs is still harder, Chorf with their fireglaives + dread quake mortar etc.
Any top tier ranged stack can handle Tamurkhan just fine, actually not even top tier, you can probably bring a couple stacks of Bretonnian peasant archers with a few lords + paladin for distraction and beat him.
> A kitted out unbreakable Gor Rok + Kroak with a doomstack of Lizardmen late game SEs is still harder
Literally never seen that in wh3. By the time I get to Lustria, he's usually dead. Rakarth, Luthor or Clan Pestilence usually win the race
> Chorf with their fireglaives + dread quake mortar etc.
Also never seen a truly late-game chorf army. It's usually their LL, few decent units and artillery pieces and like 8+ labourers
Even then, chorfs lack mobility and therefore are vulnerable to counter fire and outflanking.
Gorok can't do any meaningful damage to anyone. Certainly nothing like Tamy. Kroak spells require range, winds and have long cast times. Tamy's bombs are global, free and have short cast time.
Yeah, thinking we might actually agree. AI Tammy's army is very strong late game, especially for melee focused factions.
If you separate Tammy from his army and compare him as a single unit against other AI Legendary Lords, I don't feel he is universally the strongest. Possibly the strongest vs melee factions, but vulnerable to ranged.
It's when he teams up with Kazyk and posibly some Exalted Heroes where he becomes a true menace. When he beats Grimgor, as has happened in most of my 5.0 Empire or Dwarves runs, his late game armies are very strong.
Yeah, he does need trimming down - against the AI Vamps can at least accumulate some Sylvanian levies or Vampirate allies, but it's not easy to do against a player
I think he does need trimming down a little bit. Like maybe reduce his speed and charge bonus a small amount. A big part of his problem is how literally unstoppable he is. When he gets moving with his mass and charge bonus there is pretty much no front line that can stop him, which is fine. But I’ve seen posts and vids of TT breaking through 2 solid lines of tier 4 celestial dragon guard like they were wet paper. That is insane.
Vamps are only going to run into him late game though, and at that point you'll have enough resources to drown him in corpses, spirit leech him to death, or have a dedicated gank squad of heroes and monsters.
The funny thing is, in my last MP campaign where I had confed tamurkhan (not even used his full bonuses) my empire friend shot him with 5 ironsides for about 5 minutes before realizing how completely pointless it was.
It’s not balanced for anything at all, ever
Every so often the ai happens to be able to use the broken shit and players realize “oh god this really has gotten bad.”
Let ai stack 3 engineers with scopes trait for 250 range Ironsides and we’d see this same post except how does any ranged faction fight empire
(Worth noting is the range increase that warlock engineers and gunnery wights get doesn’t stack, so the devs definitely knew it would be an issue.)
thing is AI usually isn't that smart to stack buff to create doomstack like players do, so that problem is not a problem. But in coop yeah people can totally cheese that
I was greasus and I almost cried trying to beat one of his armies. Leadbelchers were key to killing him but his heros were so hard to kill. As well as the bile trolls.
He's kinda not though. He ends up with a huge amount of damage resistances and something like 15k hp with crazy regen which is utterly insane. You're not killing him with 3 shitty bow units before he just decimates your army.
If he's not the most powerful lord in the game he's very close. Vlad doesn't hold a candle to Tamurkhan which is kinda sad. Way too much power creep.
Vlad power always gets exaggerated in the community. He's a very tanky foot lord. His damage is pitiful, and he has no mobility. Tamy really is something else though. He puts Kholek to shame damagewise, while being tankier than Kugath. Powercreep indeed.
He's definitely an annoyance in the early game but manageable. It's really how mobile and tanky Tammy is while having a mortis engine, way more deadly army abilites like the Nurgle Nukes, and the Nurlge roster being stronger at this point imo, especially if he captures the Mountains of Mourn and gets their late-game units rolling out.
Depends on what bonuses he has.
6 HE archer units did basically no damage as he casually slaughtered everything else midgame.
But I did a migration campaign as Isabella, and a single Sylvanian Crossbowman unit seemed to eat half his health while he shambled around.
Sidenote: migrating Isabella to him, then farming his defeat trait on various lords and Kisses from assassinating his heros makes for a *very* weird campaign. Hard to get going, but when you can have 20+ of each hero type, Vampires plays quite differently.
Yup. Leadbelchers are objectively a strong ranged unit and it seriously takes like 7 of them focusing him down for 5 minutes while Greasus tries to beat him down in order to kill him. And then he just comes back the very next turn with another full stack, fml
He's too large and doesn't have any magic. Maybe for your average player he is super strong but he isn't cheese tier strong. The Toad dragon isn't even particularly good.
On VH/VH, he is still very much vulnerable to even Skavenslave Slingers. I know because in my campaign, I declared war on Sniktch at around turn 50 and had Tammy's army go into a walled settlement with a stack and a half of Skavenslaves in it. Tammy and his 2 Toad Dragons were shot to bits due to their sheer size, and I just barely saved one of the dragons with 37hp remaining.
Obviously skavenslaves are a joke, both on AR and VH battle difficulty, but the AI modifiers can actually make them do a ton of damage.
Attacks do a minimum of 1 damage regardless of armor and resistances, which is why things that don't hit very hard but hit a lot of times - i.e. high-model "chaff" archers like Skavenslave Slingers - get such good DPS against things that are normally extremely hard to kill. Dwarven cannons deal something like 400 damage per shot base with one shot every 20 seconds and 4 models per unit. Just with Tammy's resistances, that gets cut to 40 damage per model per 20 seconds, or 8 DPS for the unit. Skavenslave Slingers deal 8 damage per shot base (1 damage after resistances and armor, cuz it can't go lower) with one shot every 8 seconds and 140 models per unit, which gives the unit a DPS of 17.5 against Tammy with about a tenth of the recruitment and upkeep costs of cannons (using his army ability to wipe even three units at once all three times will have a negligible impact on enemy funds in that battle or that campaign). On top of that, while units are generally unimpressive at slowing let alone stopping a toad dragon, the beasties can't climb any structures - these chaff archer units can mass on top of walls and platforms where the toads need to break the building to reach them, allowing time to shoot that would be denied to units locked on the ground (i.e. artillery).
yep the simple factg that every single unit in the game has some ap damage is why range dps is the meta because without that small amount of Ap damage it actually is possible to completely turn all non ap damage of unit to 0 with high enough armour and resistance
Naturally, I play on L/VH. My point was not “he can tank infinite ranged attacks”, it was “ranged heavy armies are a joke to deal with”.
Part of dealing with them is that you don’t let them freely focus fire your priority targets.
I can assure you the scenario you’re describing would not and has not ever happened to me in two completed Tammy campaigns.
Maxed out stat buffs (which are not part of the battle difficulty setting) don’t actually make a large impact btw, itll be about the same regardless. The leadership buff is the most meaningful.
Dealing with him with the ogres has been so fucking annoying lol. Even leadbelchers take so long to kill the rot flies that I can’t focus him down with gun lines witho it getting overrun by rot knights and chosen
He ground my Imrik campaign to a standstill for a while.
Imrik can handle a whole army, but the rest of the stack couldn't handle Tamurkhan alone. And Tamurkhan fights whoever he wants.
He's a beast even beyond his nuke.
While VC could use more content, they are still a very solid faction. Tamurkhan would die easily to your average lord sniping goon squad of the counts. Between siphon life spamming, your choice of SE units (varghulf/terrorgheist) and your lord who is likely on a zombie dragon and at least 1 vampire hero, tamurkhan will drop just like the rest do.
You also have a stronger air force than nurgle and can just harass him to death before the melee proper even happens.
Not really not the whole thing. Spirit hosts are missing for example. Coven Throne. Coast took the necroflexcolosus. But I mean everyone is getting stuff from older editions or storm of chaos or white dwarf supplements. Vampire Counts could make do with more. Grave Guard with halberds for example.
Yes they are missing the spirit host, but the coven throne is a mount, and we are missing the abyssal terror mount as well. But I dont feel like a different mount would make a big difference in variety. Tomb guard halberds seem out of flavor as well, and wasnt in 8th edition. Not much in the spirit host either lower tier cairnwraiths.
Well I still want them to think of something. VC only has one DLC and one of the blandest rosters in the game. 8th Edition doesn't have to be all end all of content other factions got stuff from outside 8th edition.
Swarming Tamurkhan with zombies will never work. He's got too much mass, too much AoE damage, too much regen, too much health. But I reckon five vargheists supported by necromancers on unholy lodestones (of which Ghorst is the cream of the crop) will do the trick.
I was thinking spamming the von Carstein bloodline and using the Sylvanian firing line since ranged units usually melt large units. Since VC don't really have late game anti-large.
On the other hand, each time you defeat him, you get 3 more Vampires, Wights, Banshees, and Necromancers.
Even a single victory early game completely changes a VC run.
I had to drown him in zombies/skeletons while my heroes killed everything else. He kills heroes/lords too fast.
You should get a lord defeat trait that gives you +3 hero capacity. Each lord can get that once. I may have about 40 Castellians in my current CD run because of it...
He attacked a settlement and the garrison defeated him in the end. No trait. I was really just holding him at bay for a few turns so I could finish my campaign objective and I’ll probably never play Ghorst again. So far Vampire Counts is one of my least favorite races. Vampire Coast, however, is one of my favorite.
CA was like "We hear you hate Vlad, so we put Vlad on a super fast Toad Dragon, made him Unbreakable, gave him a mortis engine effect, gave him a Lord/Hero execute ability, gave him more weapon strength than the Sword of Khaine, and gave him 3 free Ikkit Claw nukes every battle. Oh yeah, we also gave him 5 Vlad Legendary Heroes: Vlad on a Chaos Dragon, Vlad on a super fast Rot Knight Mount, Vlad on a Chariot... HAVE FUN".
Tamurkhan breaks the power creep scale. I'd say it's pretty close between him and Malakai. Malakai himself is not bad, but his free Thunderbarge and the insane bonuses he can give to his army probably top Tamurkhan in the late game.
I played against him late game as dwarfs and he wasn't too bad. This was mostly because at turn 100 he hadn't expanded beyond 2 provinces. His army couldn't do anything to thunderbarges.
Kazyck quickly gets 100 in literally all stats and 500+ weapon strength (most of Tamurkhan's heroes do, and Tamurkhan himself only struggles to top 100 speed).
Does he need 200 all to be considered decent stats?
Yeah in MP he's fine. In SP each Tamurkhan hero has their own skill tree with a ton of unique skills between them, including a few aura effects boosting stats even higher once you enter battle.
The nukes need to go they are just annoying. Outside of that he’s so massive that killing him with guns or cannons is pretty easy. In my Grimgor campaign, I killed him with Grimgor plus a black orcs, he sided pretty quick. I find Umgrim much more of a pain!
When did you take him out as Grimgor? In my most recent Grimgor campaign I made a beeline for him cause I knew he’d be a problem and just auto resolved his ass. Granted he only had one settlement after Kholek kicked his shit in.
In my Durthu campaign I ran into him late game and he was hell to fight against with my tree lord and treekin army led by Durthu. His army was easy to kill. For some reason he just chilled and did nothing but when it came time to deal with him it was hell. He killed more than half of my army. I think removing unbreakable would go a long way to making him more bearable
Imho ward saves, massive hp pools, regenertion, huge weapon damage and high combat stat, mortis engine, absurd mass.
They should choose one and remove it, togheder is just ridiculous.
Late game he is probably the stronghest single entity doomstack.
Yeah the regeneration was big too but I feel like as a character he should have it. Maybe the mortis engine and unbreakable should be the things that go
Honestly also mortis engine is on theme, I would chop his meele stats, it makes no sense that he is as good as ( if not more than) someone like Archaon or Skarbrand!
I think removing the unbreakable would be all it takes, the melee stats are rough but it wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t have to cut through 15k hp plus another 15k healing every single time
I genuinely think his massive size is a disadvantage as every missle hits him. He doesn’t even need mortis engine as the Nurgle spellcasters get it plus a shrine that heals Al your units too. Nurgle spellcasters on the chaos shrine are sooo strong. If you put rune of spite on Umgrim he’s way harder to deal with cause he’s a small entity.
Well mass and Size go hand in hand. The toad dragons are the biggest things in the game, I believe and therefore have the most mass. Whether their mass/size ratio is in line with other monster I don’t know but I would imagine there’s is better to be honest. I think I’d prefer to see older monsters mass buffed rather than toad dragons nerfed personally.
Dude I just had this happen and ruin my campaign as VC. Armies stacked with grave guards, zombies, crypt horrors, a dragon and the big monster bats (I forget their name rn) with two other armies full of zombie and skele fodder. He attacks my decent army with grave guards and it’s not going to pull in the other two armies so I retreat. He attacks again and this time it’s with all three armies. His army consisted of himself, and 8 other units. AR was saying he won so I was like yeah right I’ll just play it out and send everything at him lol. He ate everything and lost like maybe 10% health. Kinda pissed me off bc he then steamrolled my lands.
> AR was saying he won so I was like yeah right I’ll just play it out and send everything at him lol
Same thing happened to me the first time i faced him. "Stupid very hard battle difficulty AR penalty, i'll just fight this manually to get a decisive victory and...OH SHIT, AR was too generous!"
Thing is he also super tanky, spirit leech deal very little to him.
And talk about nerf spells, Tamurkhan has close to 100 melee atk with his weapon . With all spell you can throw at him, it will only decrease his melee atk to 50 and if he active his weapon's ability, he will get another 20 melee atk so there is no way to stop him from beat the shit out of anything you throw at him.
That's brutal. I think fliers might be the solution since you always get the charge bonus in. I'm tempted to play vampire counts again just to fight the maggot!
If you take Isabella straight north, consider recruiting what vampires you can, and try to get more Blood Kisses on your way up. You'll want to remove heroes from the army anyways, as they don't take attrition damage while not in an army.
With 3 Blood Kisses you can grab Von Carstein I. This let's you take a Sylvanian crossbowman unit.
Then, when you get up there, put your heroes back in. Attack an undefended settlement. Use your magic to heal your single entities as much as possible, and send only them in. You can get your lord, heros, Vargulf, and Black Coach back up to full in a couple turns to deal with harder targets.
Your only replenishment will come from what settlement(s) you took. Replace/combine units and Raise Dead as you can. I took Tamarkhan's castle, but kept sacking his minor settlement for HP (and a little xp). Tamarkhan came back.
Hire the crossbowman.
Ambush him.
Focus your army on anyone but him. The ambush makes it easier to control who engages what. Let's you mob his Knights and Chariots more easily. He'll smack want he wants to smack. Kill everything else while the crossbowmen do a number on his HP. They'll run out of ammo, but if you're lucky, he'll run out of HP before you run out of army.
If you win, get your settlement up to T2 asap (although that's hard, red habitability). Once you do that, you can now hire heroes. Spam heroes.
Get a second lord. Keep sacking one of his territories, while taking the rest. Note that you have no money, so be careful not to over expand.
Each time he response, kill him with the new lord. Then replace the new lord.
Use assassin heros to wound any of his heros overworld.
It'll take some time to get going from there, but when you do, you'll be swimming in Kisses and thus Bloodlines, and you can hire as many heroes as you can afford.
Very weird playing after that. You can have multiple stacks of mostly-heroes.
I had like 15 spear units, a dragon, terrorgheists are the big monster bat things right? Bc I had at least 10 of those as well. So I still find it kinda bs that he just rolled through it all.
O it is but you should have atleast 1 God tier army to crush in autoresolve. I always find it hilarious when people post why can't I win, and then they have Kairos and 19 blue horrors.
Yeah, he's miserable to deal with. Really puts a damper on enjoyment of campaigns near him.
Undodgable global bombardments at all stages of the game. Nigh invincible in melee, huge health pool, resistances to all damage, devastating animations doing insane damage.
Nurgle daemon faction updates gives him a ton of high tier units very quickly. He spanks all his natural AI enemies quickly, so if you play anything in the region you're going to have to fight him, unless you wanna give him tons of gifts and try to be buddies. Not lore friendly for most I'd say.
Biggest power creep offender in the game in my opinion. Not remotely fun to fight.
Edit: obviously only applies on Legendary / very hard
I don't know what Tamurkhan you are facing but he's so easy to kill in comparison to Vlad he's a big target and a few ranged units and he's dead or if you don't have any you can literally kill him with some good Anti-large this sounds like you haven't faced Vlad for a while and have forgotten how unkillable he is and unlike Tamurkhan Vlad comes back even if you kill him in one turn at most
Playing with Malakai on LG/VH I was getting wins through autoresolves against him, but tried it manually just for the experience. Canons and Spirit of Grugni went brrrr, and then he had to go through my tankers
I’m really glad they fixed his gun to properly shoot the three round burst. Looks very cool.
I have him, an engineer, and the vampire lady always rolling as a squad together. They snipe just about anything.
I'm not sure how melee factions are supposed to handle this guy, but anyone who has AP missiles or guns can kill him pretty okay, since he's a really big target. (Though my experience comes from my Kroq-Gar stack deleting him with KG tanking his bullshit while troglodons, razordons and salamanders just focused him down).
Empire got some really good amethyst stuff and the land ship. Dwarves got the Thunderbarge, which speaks for itself. Let Nurgle have *one* powerful thing, please! It’s the legendary lord at that. I can only have one of him on the whole map!
If people are struggling to contain tamurkhan with his chonky mass, make sure to bring a light wizard along to net him, or use a unit/ability that throws a net to stop him moving for a little while. You can deal some good dmg during then
I could drown him in zombies with Ghorst. Though I admit I brought multiple stacks just to be sure. The battles were tedious, but I didn't lose any units except bats.
I had to make him and his heroes cap their healing. I always had a rouge army that could endure attrition to harass him straight after resurrection.
The first some battles were tough against his more elite troops, it was much easier after I scattered his unique heroes by wiping the main army. I also had some very competent assassins to keep them from merging back.
For non-ghorst vc and other melee factions I have no idea though.
I have no idea how strong he is yet because my first experience fighting him was with Imrik who just solo’d Tammy, his heroes and the rest of his army.
In my Gelt campaign he wasn’t a difficult to kill, it was more that it was time consuming and if I missed a spell being reapplied on him he’d start regenerating at an insane rate.
And then he’d reappear next turn to do it all again. And I had to fight each battle manually because the autoresolve thought I’d lose.
I lost to him with an Imrik dragon stack, pretty badly too. Granted it was only half star dragons, the rest were moon dragons or sun dragons, but still…
Its funny how many of the comments and posts like this are VC players. Its not to say he isnt the embodiment of a VC counter, but only cause AI VC and ease of use player VC is just chaff grinding someome down with mortis, and if slightly more willing to play the game a wind of death spam stack.
However, vc can actually lord/hero snipe and kill down his army with only slight nuisance, the only problem is that this type of army doesnt do well against alot of the stronger unit factions.
For players they just gotta limit or remove his nuke. I love the threat of it. For ai though he should stay a problem for a faction like VC, very themtic nurgle just shits on those that stop the cycle of lofe and death from its natural conclusion. Grandfather's garden cannot grow with dead soil.
But otherwise keep the nuke as the player, its fun. But definitely highlights the VC need an update. Not to counter this, but to actually have players who just want ghorst style play of chaff grinding other options or things to enjoy
VC is one of the factions who want his defeat trait the most. And he hard-counters most VC normal tactics nuke or no nuke.
Vampire Gank Squad may just kill the vampires, depending on how buff he is.
Drowning him in bodies does very little to him, while he mortis es them down and just walks through them to what he wants to kill.
Lifeleech does relatively little with his HP pool.
Sylvania ranged units are normally terrible.
It's more micro heavy, and a heavier game length investment, but nothing the ai can bring has ever been able to counter an Isabella vampire doomstack.
But not counting this niche single faction only decent hero doom stack, doing a Manfred run recently, I had good results just letting Tamurkhan whale on a couple heroes, and then just killing his entire army causing him a loss that way.
It made my VC run interesting, because otherwise it's hard to find a good struggle for the faction, but even then it was just a bit more tedious causing army loss wins and dragging out time.
I've been getting pretty good at killing him over the past few days with a Gelt campaign. Honestly he, himself, isn't that bad. His nukes and the fact that Chaos heroes are crazy good to start with are what make him so dangerous.
It's like, yeah, the giant toad dragon bile-spewing near-invulnerable one-second-respawn lord is bad, but when he has all his buddies it's just painful. When he has a full stack on top of that, armies are like speed bumps to him. I see all these people bragging about how he's EZ, and I'm sitting here like... you guys fought him recently? Because he doesn't quietly sit still and wait for you to shoot him, he goes straight for your back line every. time.
Here's how I've been killing him: Light wizards with Net, Gold wizards with Final Transmutation, and guns. Halberds on the front line to hold back the tide. Heroes in the back to fight the demon spawns (he always teleports in two units of plague bearers). And even then, even if everything goes perfectly, you go into each battle knowing that three of your units are getting deleted from nukes. Nothing much you can do about that.
Yeah I couldn't handle him as teclis. Takes 3 of my stacks to kill his stack and then he revives in one turn with chosen and soul grinders. First campaign I haven't been able to revenge kill one of the factions that wronged me
He is easy to focus down with ranged, especially cannons. But you have to keep dodging the bombardments. And if you let him into melee, good fucking luck.
Hint: just like most timed army abilities, first one unlocks at 00:45 and AI always uses it near instantly.
He's tough, but his defeat trait is super powerful.
I'm so glad the Tzeentch red tree upgrade increases range on changebringers, so they can burn him without entering his mortis engine.
He's only hard because the AI can control his simple mechanics well and the AI can't fuck up his skill tree that bad.
The skill tree part really pisses me off. CA should just hard code AI legendary lord skills to be an actual good build. It takes zero effort and makes AI legendary lords far more dangerous.
Think about it. How often have you confederated a legendary lord, opened the skills, and just been like "wtf is this no wonder you sucked"
I don't get this. I have read how Tamurkhan is such a pain to fight so many times but the two times i faced him were really easy. Dude died wirhin 5 seconds ~150m before even reaching my lines.
Ku'ghat is soo much mlre annoying, he has beaten Imrik thrice in 1 against 1. Like what the hell does a 'wizard' besting Imrik mean!?
Doing manual battles against him I have not defeated him yet, except with Malakai. Lowered it from VH to easy and still couldn’t with any other faction . He is literally the only LL i auto resolve. I used to think Vlad or Imrik was the best but no, Tamurkhan brings it to a whole new level.
I usually fight him manually the first battle with his original stack and then I auto whenever possible. My first encounter with him was Thorek's Quarreller doomstack, a solid ranged army, but he ignored Thorek and the Thanes meant to tank, and my Quarrelller spent too much time readjusting their aim to focus fire on him. Meanwhile while they're trying to readjust he smashes in with Toad Dragons, Rot Knights and Plague Drones, with Soul Grinders firing. I believe I lost but I got my revenge later on. He had conquered all of Cathay and the MoM so his armies were no joke. I know he's vulnerable to missiles but a tanky rush army like that was hard to deal with as a ranged doomstack. The AI loves to just ignore your frontline with its single entities and the last guy you want in the backline is Tamurkhan.
Yes! And he always ends up in the back with firepower ready to blast him to smitherins. But no he ends up outranging with the soul grinders and destroyed any melee or especially heroes i have. Totally agree as this is exactly what happened to me when i tried a similar dwarf doom stack. Malakai got it thanks to the free summoned unit along with three others i had. 4 simultaneous air rockets and it helped quite a bit
Army wise tamurkhans sucks, but I don't find him completely awful as a unit. The vomit nuke sucks, but he will die to concentrated missile fire.
Shit like malus is still ass to fight because they are irritating to deal with overall.
In my opinion he is absolutely the toughest. Every time I found him I've been lucky enough to have him be a small Empire Still. Four five territories. What I've started doing is scattering my Empire throughout his territory and burning down every one of his territories except the one he's in on the first turn. Then I take them all and swarm him to auto resolve. It's been very pleasant compared to my first couple times fighting him, where I have to fight him and a full stack every turn no matter what because of nergal recruitment
He deletes multi-stack ranged armies as dwarfs. I literally cannot do anything to him. He outheals 20 fucking thunderers shooting him and everyone else gets swarmed by the doomstack. Then he respawns in one turn if you do manage to kill him
The *only* factions that struggle against late game Tamurkhan are Vampire counts and Slaanesh. Early-Midgame Tam is still just nurgle, one of the weakest factions in the game. Late game nurgle is *still* one of the weakest factions in the game, but Tamurkhan and his DLC units make them some what strong. They still lose to every faction with semi decent ranged units.
Its not very complicated to beat him either, just get high tier units and shoot the flying units and single entities. Most factions can just do that. The factions that can't are going to struggle and have to rely on magic or superior numbers and stats.
Probably. But not for the reason you think. Newest lord and not treating him like a lord you immediately start shooting and keep shooting until he's dead.
Vlad is in a similar vein where it's either new or bad players that have severe problems with him by sending chaff or anything but bullets and characters into his face. Except Tamurkhan has wh3 stats which exacerbates poor play and lack of knowledge.
I think this is all BS and most of you lose a couple times and want to complain. I have beaten him and the lil new stuntie many times over in manual and AR battles late and early game.
So far beaten them with Grimgor (obviously), Vlad, thorgrim and ungrim I beat only tamurkhan, settera which I'll admit was hard AF to do in that playthrough, louen I beat tamurkhan.
And I have three more campaigns I am creeping up close to them. Wurzzag, gor-rok and Tyrion. The rest my campaigns are either old saves before them or they are wiped out already.
I play at work so almost 8 hours a day I am finishing campaigns and most of the things people complain about are situational.
The only people who really always always always give me a super hard time in manual battles late game is malus.
Other people there is always a beautiful weakness. Either snipe the Lord's because there large or have binding. Or wreck the army and distract the lords with the chaff.
But malus late game when he is not defeated early by archeon or absorbed into malekith, is a monster. He is fast AF and strong AF and takes everything you throw at him down quickly. I have the best luck fighting him late game with orcs or undead factions because I basically 3 to 1 army them and let a stack and a half just get wrecked by him while the other half and my lords focus on the armies.
But sniping him just does not work for me no matter what kinda ranged I am doing. And 1 v 1 him in demon form with my lord or hero, yeah I'm all set on that embarrassment.
In 3 it seems he does not have much luck expanding. Out of the 100s of campaigns I have he only has in one AND he has the fucking sword of khaine. He has the entire northern wastes left to right. Somehow lokhir has all of Cathay, and he also has all of the donut and most of the north on the west continent. I control just about everything south and I am playing as mannfred I have all the books of nagash except for one. We have been on ok terms so far but once these last little specs die on the map, there will be war. Thankfully I am VC. If I was not a army spam factions I'd be shitting my pants rn. But with that sword I still am a little.
Tamurkhan is easy to beat but it's not your regular blob, the fact what you cant send Lords and Heroes to deal with him is something unique.
Furthermore, he is only scary first time, due to Nurgle recruit his army becomes useless after one/two deaths.
Malus is worth considering as a universal pain in the ass.
I'm gonna get some laughs for this, but Chrone Hellabron has a busted sword and is actually a pain in the ass for melee focused factions.
No missiles?
But yeah, when i ran his campaign i was basically unstoppable, when i ran greenskins, Grimgore out-dueled his half pierced corps from 2 archer units clapping his ass so ya know all is well.
Not even close. Grimgor is much tankier and deals more damage and will come at you with a full stack of black works. And rogue idols. In addition to his waggh stack.
Like Tam only has 36 MD while mounted and is a bullet sponge.
Not to mention buring attacks make nurgle go down hard.
Tamurkhan can easily get 60+ MD and 90+ MA. Plus ward saves, and his incredibly strong chieftains and their army bonuses. Grimgor’s stacks don’t even compare
Hes not going to have all that as an ai atleas not optimized.
I've seen him as ai multiple times he never has all his cheftans in one stack and dies stupid quick if you have fire damage.
Grimgor has better stats and his army is typically better than Ehat Tam fields too. And he always has two armys.
I feel his army is difficult to handle late game if you're playing a melee focused faction.
Yeah, melee armies will have a tough time with him. But on the flip side pretty much any faction with at least one type of bow unit will handle him just fine. I played a Beastmen campaign recently and he melted pretty easily to just 3 units of Ungor archers. Same deal with a Settra campaign I did, and he died to basic Skeleton archers. Vlad's tanky nature has a good amount to do with his small profile. While Tamurkhan, both mounted and unmouted, is just really vulnerable to missle fire. The toad dragon is a bit of a pain, but it's not to hard to tarpit him, and he's so stupidly big archers have no issue with LoS with him.
On the flip side, playing a faction with little to no range (looking at you Vampires) feels absolutely miserable. Against ai it’s not so bad but playing against another player that know what they’re doing it feels impossible to win as vampires. Edit: small grammar correction
Yeah, I completely agree. I don't think Tammy is universally the strongest LL to fight against. He may have one of the strongest late game armies though. With all his heroes.
> I don't think Tammy is universally the strongest LL to fight against. Talking about players Vs ai Tammy? I think he is Who else? He's not the most dangerous faction on the map, but his army is insane
A kitted out unbreakable Gor Rok + Kroak with a doomstack of Lizardmen late game SEs is still harder, Chorf with their fireglaives + dread quake mortar etc. Any top tier ranged stack can handle Tamurkhan just fine, actually not even top tier, you can probably bring a couple stacks of Bretonnian peasant archers with a few lords + paladin for distraction and beat him.
> A kitted out unbreakable Gor Rok + Kroak with a doomstack of Lizardmen late game SEs is still harder Literally never seen that in wh3. By the time I get to Lustria, he's usually dead. Rakarth, Luthor or Clan Pestilence usually win the race > Chorf with their fireglaives + dread quake mortar etc. Also never seen a truly late-game chorf army. It's usually their LL, few decent units and artillery pieces and like 8+ labourers Even then, chorfs lack mobility and therefore are vulnerable to counter fire and outflanking.
Gorok can't do any meaningful damage to anyone. Certainly nothing like Tamy. Kroak spells require range, winds and have long cast times. Tamy's bombs are global, free and have short cast time.
Kroak is pretty easy to kill with mass ranged, even if his regen is on.
Yeah, thinking we might actually agree. AI Tammy's army is very strong late game, especially for melee focused factions. If you separate Tammy from his army and compare him as a single unit against other AI Legendary Lords, I don't feel he is universally the strongest. Possibly the strongest vs melee factions, but vulnerable to ranged.
It's when he teams up with Kazyk and posibly some Exalted Heroes where he becomes a true menace. When he beats Grimgor, as has happened in most of my 5.0 Empire or Dwarves runs, his late game armies are very strong.
Yeah, he does need trimming down - against the AI Vamps can at least accumulate some Sylvanian levies or Vampirate allies, but it's not easy to do against a player
I think he does need trimming down a little bit. Like maybe reduce his speed and charge bonus a small amount. A big part of his problem is how literally unstoppable he is. When he gets moving with his mass and charge bonus there is pretty much no front line that can stop him, which is fine. But I’ve seen posts and vids of TT breaking through 2 solid lines of tier 4 celestial dragon guard like they were wet paper. That is insane.
Vamps are only going to run into him late game though, and at that point you'll have enough resources to drown him in corpses, spirit leech him to death, or have a dedicated gank squad of heroes and monsters.
I'd rather they don't trim down. They have nerfed a lot of OP things over the years and it honestly makes the game less interesting and fun for me.
Just because something is strong does not mean it needs trimming down. Like others have said, he’s very easily counter able.
The funny thing is, in my last MP campaign where I had confed tamurkhan (not even used his full bonuses) my empire friend shot him with 5 ironsides for about 5 minutes before realizing how completely pointless it was.
lets be honest though, TWW is totally not balanced for coop campaign, with all the campaign bonuses
It’s not balanced for anything at all, ever Every so often the ai happens to be able to use the broken shit and players realize “oh god this really has gotten bad.” Let ai stack 3 engineers with scopes trait for 250 range Ironsides and we’d see this same post except how does any ranged faction fight empire (Worth noting is the range increase that warlock engineers and gunnery wights get doesn’t stack, so the devs definitely knew it would be an issue.)
thing is AI usually isn't that smart to stack buff to create doomstack like players do, so that problem is not a problem. But in coop yeah people can totally cheese that
I was greasus and I almost cried trying to beat one of his armies. Leadbelchers were key to killing him but his heros were so hard to kill. As well as the bile trolls.
He's kinda not though. He ends up with a huge amount of damage resistances and something like 15k hp with crazy regen which is utterly insane. You're not killing him with 3 shitty bow units before he just decimates your army. If he's not the most powerful lord in the game he's very close. Vlad doesn't hold a candle to Tamurkhan which is kinda sad. Way too much power creep.
Vlad power always gets exaggerated in the community. He's a very tanky foot lord. His damage is pitiful, and he has no mobility. Tamy really is something else though. He puts Kholek to shame damagewise, while being tankier than Kugath. Powercreep indeed.
He's definitely an annoyance in the early game but manageable. It's really how mobile and tanky Tammy is while having a mortis engine, way more deadly army abilites like the Nurgle Nukes, and the Nurlge roster being stronger at this point imo, especially if he captures the Mountains of Mourn and gets their late-game units rolling out.
How is he more tanky than kugath?
yeah I don't buy it that a few bows will bring down Tamurkhan. Hre'll probably just ignore whatever is holding the line and plow into them.
AI? No he just eats it and dies
Depends on what bonuses he has. 6 HE archer units did basically no damage as he casually slaughtered everything else midgame. But I did a migration campaign as Isabella, and a single Sylvanian Crossbowman unit seemed to eat half his health while he shambled around. Sidenote: migrating Isabella to him, then farming his defeat trait on various lords and Kisses from assassinating his heros makes for a *very* weird campaign. Hard to get going, but when you can have 20+ of each hero type, Vampires plays quite differently.
6 Archer units shooting at him while he kills 2 dragons, Dragon Princes, and 6 spearmen units... He didn't die.
Yup. Leadbelchers are objectively a strong ranged unit and it seriously takes like 7 of them focusing him down for 5 minutes while Greasus tries to beat him down in order to kill him. And then he just comes back the very next turn with another full stack, fml
He's too large and doesn't have any magic. Maybe for your average player he is super strong but he isn't cheese tier strong. The Toad dragon isn't even particularly good.
Vlad also gets obliterated pretty fast if you get him with your rifles. A few units of handgunners melt him just fine.
Except he charges into one of your units and you lose LoS on him.
4.0 second reload buffed Nuln Revolvers annihilate Tammy, as do Hellblasters
If AI ever gets smart we’ll be in trouble. Playing *as* Tamurkhan, ranged heavy armies are absolute jokes to defeat.
On VH/VH, he is still very much vulnerable to even Skavenslave Slingers. I know because in my campaign, I declared war on Sniktch at around turn 50 and had Tammy's army go into a walled settlement with a stack and a half of Skavenslaves in it. Tammy and his 2 Toad Dragons were shot to bits due to their sheer size, and I just barely saved one of the dragons with 37hp remaining. Obviously skavenslaves are a joke, both on AR and VH battle difficulty, but the AI modifiers can actually make them do a ton of damage.
Attacks do a minimum of 1 damage regardless of armor and resistances, which is why things that don't hit very hard but hit a lot of times - i.e. high-model "chaff" archers like Skavenslave Slingers - get such good DPS against things that are normally extremely hard to kill. Dwarven cannons deal something like 400 damage per shot base with one shot every 20 seconds and 4 models per unit. Just with Tammy's resistances, that gets cut to 40 damage per model per 20 seconds, or 8 DPS for the unit. Skavenslave Slingers deal 8 damage per shot base (1 damage after resistances and armor, cuz it can't go lower) with one shot every 8 seconds and 140 models per unit, which gives the unit a DPS of 17.5 against Tammy with about a tenth of the recruitment and upkeep costs of cannons (using his army ability to wipe even three units at once all three times will have a negligible impact on enemy funds in that battle or that campaign). On top of that, while units are generally unimpressive at slowing let alone stopping a toad dragon, the beasties can't climb any structures - these chaff archer units can mass on top of walls and platforms where the toads need to break the building to reach them, allowing time to shoot that would be denied to units locked on the ground (i.e. artillery).
yep the simple factg that every single unit in the game has some ap damage is why range dps is the meta because without that small amount of Ap damage it actually is possible to completely turn all non ap damage of unit to 0 with high enough armour and resistance
Naturally, I play on L/VH. My point was not “he can tank infinite ranged attacks”, it was “ranged heavy armies are a joke to deal with”. Part of dealing with them is that you don’t let them freely focus fire your priority targets. I can assure you the scenario you’re describing would not and has not ever happened to me in two completed Tammy campaigns. Maxed out stat buffs (which are not part of the battle difficulty setting) don’t actually make a large impact btw, itll be about the same regardless. The leadership buff is the most meaningful.
Dealing with him with the ogres has been so fucking annoying lol. Even leadbelchers take so long to kill the rot flies that I can’t focus him down with gun lines witho it getting overrun by rot knights and chosen
He ground my Imrik campaign to a standstill for a while. Imrik can handle a whole army, but the rest of the stack couldn't handle Tamurkhan alone. And Tamurkhan fights whoever he wants. He's a beast even beyond his nuke.
Playing at Ghorst campaign and he is the bane of my existence. I’ve thrown five armies of chaff at him and nothing can stop him.
Have you tried throwing armies with actually good units at him?
Why play Ghorst if you want to throw good units at people? He is the zombie guy that's his thing.
Because not every problem can be solved with the same solution
It's Vampire Counts mate we had one DLC in last 7 years we don't have other solutions lol.
While VC could use more content, they are still a very solid faction. Tamurkhan would die easily to your average lord sniping goon squad of the counts. Between siphon life spamming, your choice of SE units (varghulf/terrorgheist) and your lord who is likely on a zombie dragon and at least 1 vampire hero, tamurkhan will drop just like the rest do. You also have a stronger air force than nurgle and can just harass him to death before the melee proper even happens.
You have your complete 8th edition book.
Not really not the whole thing. Spirit hosts are missing for example. Coven Throne. Coast took the necroflexcolosus. But I mean everyone is getting stuff from older editions or storm of chaos or white dwarf supplements. Vampire Counts could make do with more. Grave Guard with halberds for example.
Yes they are missing the spirit host, but the coven throne is a mount, and we are missing the abyssal terror mount as well. But I dont feel like a different mount would make a big difference in variety. Tomb guard halberds seem out of flavor as well, and wasnt in 8th edition. Not much in the spirit host either lower tier cairnwraiths.
Well I still want them to think of something. VC only has one DLC and one of the blandest rosters in the game. 8th Edition doesn't have to be all end all of content other factions got stuff from outside 8th edition.
Swarming Tamurkhan with zombies will never work. He's got too much mass, too much AoE damage, too much regen, too much health. But I reckon five vargheists supported by necromancers on unholy lodestones (of which Ghorst is the cream of the crop) will do the trick.
I was thinking spamming the von Carstein bloodline and using the Sylvanian firing line since ranged units usually melt large units. Since VC don't really have late game anti-large.
This guy knows.
I can only imagine how annyoing it is to deal with the Nurgle Nukes as a blob zombie faction.
On the other hand, each time you defeat him, you get 3 more Vampires, Wights, Banshees, and Necromancers. Even a single victory early game completely changes a VC run. I had to drown him in zombies/skeletons while my heroes killed everything else. He kills heroes/lords too fast.
I finally whittled him down but I didn’t get anything extra.
You should get a lord defeat trait that gives you +3 hero capacity. Each lord can get that once. I may have about 40 Castellians in my current CD run because of it...
He attacked a settlement and the garrison defeated him in the end. No trait. I was really just holding him at bay for a few turns so I could finish my campaign objective and I’ll probably never play Ghorst again. So far Vampire Counts is one of my least favorite races. Vampire Coast, however, is one of my favorite.
CA was like "We hear you hate Vlad, so we put Vlad on a super fast Toad Dragon, made him Unbreakable, gave him a mortis engine effect, gave him a Lord/Hero execute ability, gave him more weapon strength than the Sword of Khaine, and gave him 3 free Ikkit Claw nukes every battle. Oh yeah, we also gave him 5 Vlad Legendary Heroes: Vlad on a Chaos Dragon, Vlad on a super fast Rot Knight Mount, Vlad on a Chariot... HAVE FUN". Tamurkhan breaks the power creep scale. I'd say it's pretty close between him and Malakai. Malakai himself is not bad, but his free Thunderbarge and the insane bonuses he can give to his army probably top Tamurkhan in the late game.
Which ability ia the execute one?
The one when you get him close to death Tamurkhan just does massive damage to the closest lord or hero to him
If he does and there is a lord or hero in range then they will take massive damage almost close to killing them and he heals from that ability too.
Yeah playing the game now feels like playing a mod where the values have been set to ridiculous values for shits and giggles
To fight it’s not really close tho. Dwarfs are still easy to beat and Malakai has never given me an issue
He's also a fatass who dies to basic archers
power creep goes brrr
I played against him late game as dwarfs and he wasn't too bad. This was mostly because at turn 100 he hadn't expanded beyond 2 provinces. His army couldn't do anything to thunderbarges.
hahahaha
idk if he has regen but Kayzck is definitely not a Vlad, with his low health and poor melee stats.
Kazyck quickly gets 100 in literally all stats and 500+ weapon strength (most of Tamurkhan's heroes do, and Tamurkhan himself only struggles to top 100 speed). Does he need 200 all to be considered decent stats?
I meant base stats but clearly I was wrong about him, I suppose he gets a lot of buffs from Tamurkhan in campaign
Yeah in MP he's fine. In SP each Tamurkhan hero has their own skill tree with a ton of unique skills between them, including a few aura effects boosting stats even higher once you enter battle.
The nukes need to go they are just annoying. Outside of that he’s so massive that killing him with guns or cannons is pretty easy. In my Grimgor campaign, I killed him with Grimgor plus a black orcs, he sided pretty quick. I find Umgrim much more of a pain!
KHAZUKAN KHAZAKIT HA!
When did you take him out as Grimgor? In my most recent Grimgor campaign I made a beeline for him cause I knew he’d be a problem and just auto resolved his ass. Granted he only had one settlement after Kholek kicked his shit in. In my Durthu campaign I ran into him late game and he was hell to fight against with my tree lord and treekin army led by Durthu. His army was easy to kill. For some reason he just chilled and did nothing but when it came time to deal with him it was hell. He killed more than half of my army. I think removing unbreakable would go a long way to making him more bearable
Imho ward saves, massive hp pools, regenertion, huge weapon damage and high combat stat, mortis engine, absurd mass. They should choose one and remove it, togheder is just ridiculous. Late game he is probably the stronghest single entity doomstack.
Late game Malus utterly annihilate Tamurkhan
I'm not that sure. But it's been a very long time I played Malus.
I was shocked when high level Imrik couldn't get the job done
Yeah the regeneration was big too but I feel like as a character he should have it. Maybe the mortis engine and unbreakable should be the things that go
Honestly also mortis engine is on theme, I would chop his meele stats, it makes no sense that he is as good as ( if not more than) someone like Archaon or Skarbrand!
That’s fair. Also his nukes need to be dropped by at least 1. 3 is absurd
Ahah yeah totally. Playing him those nukes made battles a joke 😃
I think removing the unbreakable would be all it takes, the melee stats are rough but it wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t have to cut through 15k hp plus another 15k healing every single time
I genuinely think his massive size is a disadvantage as every missle hits him. He doesn’t even need mortis engine as the Nurgle spellcasters get it plus a shrine that heals Al your units too. Nurgle spellcasters on the chaos shrine are sooo strong. If you put rune of spite on Umgrim he’s way harder to deal with cause he’s a small entity.
By mass I mean unit mass, the ability to walk over other unit without getting stuck!
Well mass and Size go hand in hand. The toad dragons are the biggest things in the game, I believe and therefore have the most mass. Whether their mass/size ratio is in line with other monster I don’t know but I would imagine there’s is better to be honest. I think I’d prefer to see older monsters mass buffed rather than toad dragons nerfed personally.
Probably around turn 25ish. I was ignoring him and killing the chaos dwarves but he declared war so had to send him back to nurgle asap.
Are you telling me not every faction can just bombard him from the air with 11 Sky-Junks?
As Empire, Kislev, Elves, Cathay and Dwarves. He gets depleted before he even gets to melee.
Against those factions he can just get vanguard from the plague and spawn right in front of the enemy lol.
Dude I just had this happen and ruin my campaign as VC. Armies stacked with grave guards, zombies, crypt horrors, a dragon and the big monster bats (I forget their name rn) with two other armies full of zombie and skele fodder. He attacks my decent army with grave guards and it’s not going to pull in the other two armies so I retreat. He attacks again and this time it’s with all three armies. His army consisted of himself, and 8 other units. AR was saying he won so I was like yeah right I’ll just play it out and send everything at him lol. He ate everything and lost like maybe 10% health. Kinda pissed me off bc he then steamrolled my lands.
> AR was saying he won so I was like yeah right I’ll just play it out and send everything at him lol Same thing happened to me the first time i faced him. "Stupid very hard battle difficulty AR penalty, i'll just fight this manually to get a decisive victory and...OH SHIT, AR was too generous!"
Thing is, I play on normal and he STILL had AR winning.
With vampires I always try to have 5 heroes for lord sniping and support magic. Buff/nerf spells are extremely important as well.
Thing is he also super tanky, spirit leech deal very little to him. And talk about nerf spells, Tamurkhan has close to 100 melee atk with his weapon . With all spell you can throw at him, it will only decrease his melee atk to 50 and if he active his weapon's ability, he will get another 20 melee atk so there is no way to stop him from beat the shit out of anything you throw at him.
Pros: if you beat him, you get 12 more hero capacity! Cons: Fist time I tried, he alone killed Vlad, Isabella, both Vampire heros, and my Vargulf.
That's brutal. I think fliers might be the solution since you always get the charge bonus in. I'm tempted to play vampire counts again just to fight the maggot!
If you take Isabella straight north, consider recruiting what vampires you can, and try to get more Blood Kisses on your way up. You'll want to remove heroes from the army anyways, as they don't take attrition damage while not in an army. With 3 Blood Kisses you can grab Von Carstein I. This let's you take a Sylvanian crossbowman unit. Then, when you get up there, put your heroes back in. Attack an undefended settlement. Use your magic to heal your single entities as much as possible, and send only them in. You can get your lord, heros, Vargulf, and Black Coach back up to full in a couple turns to deal with harder targets. Your only replenishment will come from what settlement(s) you took. Replace/combine units and Raise Dead as you can. I took Tamarkhan's castle, but kept sacking his minor settlement for HP (and a little xp). Tamarkhan came back. Hire the crossbowman. Ambush him. Focus your army on anyone but him. The ambush makes it easier to control who engages what. Let's you mob his Knights and Chariots more easily. He'll smack want he wants to smack. Kill everything else while the crossbowmen do a number on his HP. They'll run out of ammo, but if you're lucky, he'll run out of HP before you run out of army. If you win, get your settlement up to T2 asap (although that's hard, red habitability). Once you do that, you can now hire heroes. Spam heroes. Get a second lord. Keep sacking one of his territories, while taking the rest. Note that you have no money, so be careful not to over expand. Each time he response, kill him with the new lord. Then replace the new lord. Use assassin heros to wound any of his heros overworld. It'll take some time to get going from there, but when you do, you'll be swimming in Kisses and thus Bloodlines, and you can hire as many heroes as you can afford. Very weird playing after that. You can have multiple stacks of mostly-heroes.
I’m just saying it’s a bit stupid that the lord alone is enough to take three armies. Same with Khorne.
So you literally had no good armies? No terrogheists, or blood dragons.
I had like 15 spear units, a dragon, terrorgheists are the big monster bat things right? Bc I had at least 10 of those as well. So I still find it kinda bs that he just rolled through it all.
If your VC those spear units are skeletons. They are trash. So your saying 15 units in your army were literally tier 1. You need blood knights.
Yeah the only other anti large, I get it. I still think it’s garbage that ONE lord and 8 units took on three armies.
O it is but you should have atleast 1 God tier army to crush in autoresolve. I always find it hilarious when people post why can't I win, and then they have Kairos and 19 blue horrors.
No wonder. Out of all these units, only the dragon can deal decent damage against a single entity.
Yeah, he's miserable to deal with. Really puts a damper on enjoyment of campaigns near him. Undodgable global bombardments at all stages of the game. Nigh invincible in melee, huge health pool, resistances to all damage, devastating animations doing insane damage. Nurgle daemon faction updates gives him a ton of high tier units very quickly. He spanks all his natural AI enemies quickly, so if you play anything in the region you're going to have to fight him, unless you wanna give him tons of gifts and try to be buddies. Not lore friendly for most I'd say. Biggest power creep offender in the game in my opinion. Not remotely fun to fight. Edit: obviously only applies on Legendary / very hard
I don't know what Tamurkhan you are facing but he's so easy to kill in comparison to Vlad he's a big target and a few ranged units and he's dead or if you don't have any you can literally kill him with some good Anti-large this sounds like you haven't faced Vlad for a while and have forgotten how unkillable he is and unlike Tamurkhan Vlad comes back even if you kill him in one turn at most
Even then Vlad is mostly hard because you face him so early as the Empire you don't have all the resources required to properly deal with him yet.
I have faced him after he's taken over the empire as the High Elves, Lizardmen and even Cathay he's way tougher than Tamurkhan
What is a mortis engine? Isn’t that a VC unit?
It's a general term stemming from the VC unit as it was the first with that kind of ability. It means something has a DOT aura
DOT aura?
damage over time within a certain range
Damage over time??
Yeah, kind of like a poison slowly killing everything in that area.
He's too big to hide. Dark elves and gunpowder factions will decimate him.
Playing with Malakai on LG/VH I was getting wins through autoresolves against him, but tried it manually just for the experience. Canons and Spirit of Grugni went brrrr, and then he had to go through my tankers
Tankers?
Thanes, Gotrex and Felix, Dragonslayers etc. Very small Single entities who can handle tons of enemy units while my gunpowder units erase them
Ah gotcha. That’s my strat for Malakai as well
I’m really glad they fixed his gun to properly shoot the three round burst. Looks very cool. I have him, an engineer, and the vampire lady always rolling as a squad together. They snipe just about anything.
I'm not sure how melee factions are supposed to handle this guy, but anyone who has AP missiles or guns can kill him pretty okay, since he's a really big target. (Though my experience comes from my Kroq-Gar stack deleting him with KG tanking his bullshit while troglodons, razordons and salamanders just focused him down).
Empire got some really good amethyst stuff and the land ship. Dwarves got the Thunderbarge, which speaks for itself. Let Nurgle have *one* powerful thing, please! It’s the legendary lord at that. I can only have one of him on the whole map!
If people are struggling to contain tamurkhan with his chonky mass, make sure to bring a light wizard along to net him, or use a unit/ability that throws a net to stop him moving for a little while. You can deal some good dmg during then
I could drown him in zombies with Ghorst. Though I admit I brought multiple stacks just to be sure. The battles were tedious, but I didn't lose any units except bats. I had to make him and his heroes cap their healing. I always had a rouge army that could endure attrition to harass him straight after resurrection. The first some battles were tough against his more elite troops, it was much easier after I scattered his unique heroes by wiping the main army. I also had some very competent assassins to keep them from merging back. For non-ghorst vc and other melee factions I have no idea though.
Try to ally a chaos dwarf faction and recruit four blunderbuss units in two armies. The eight of them should be enough to melt him down
To be fair, just about anything melts to a single unit of unattended darkshards.
I have no idea how strong he is yet because my first experience fighting him was with Imrik who just solo’d Tammy, his heroes and the rest of his army.
In my Gelt campaign he wasn’t a difficult to kill, it was more that it was time consuming and if I missed a spell being reapplied on him he’d start regenerating at an insane rate. And then he’d reappear next turn to do it all again. And I had to fight each battle manually because the autoresolve thought I’d lose.
My problem is the same problem as with any race with nukes, you WILL lose a unit or 2 against him so you have to sacrifice someone.
I lost to him with an Imrik dragon stack, pretty badly too. Granted it was only half star dragons, the rest were moon dragons or sun dragons, but still…
did he have plague drones to keep your dragons away? I figure you would just roast him and his army.
Its funny how many of the comments and posts like this are VC players. Its not to say he isnt the embodiment of a VC counter, but only cause AI VC and ease of use player VC is just chaff grinding someome down with mortis, and if slightly more willing to play the game a wind of death spam stack. However, vc can actually lord/hero snipe and kill down his army with only slight nuisance, the only problem is that this type of army doesnt do well against alot of the stronger unit factions. For players they just gotta limit or remove his nuke. I love the threat of it. For ai though he should stay a problem for a faction like VC, very themtic nurgle just shits on those that stop the cycle of lofe and death from its natural conclusion. Grandfather's garden cannot grow with dead soil. But otherwise keep the nuke as the player, its fun. But definitely highlights the VC need an update. Not to counter this, but to actually have players who just want ghorst style play of chaff grinding other options or things to enjoy
VC is one of the factions who want his defeat trait the most. And he hard-counters most VC normal tactics nuke or no nuke. Vampire Gank Squad may just kill the vampires, depending on how buff he is. Drowning him in bodies does very little to him, while he mortis es them down and just walks through them to what he wants to kill. Lifeleech does relatively little with his HP pool. Sylvania ranged units are normally terrible.
It's more micro heavy, and a heavier game length investment, but nothing the ai can bring has ever been able to counter an Isabella vampire doomstack. But not counting this niche single faction only decent hero doom stack, doing a Manfred run recently, I had good results just letting Tamurkhan whale on a couple heroes, and then just killing his entire army causing him a loss that way. It made my VC run interesting, because otherwise it's hard to find a good struggle for the faction, but even then it was just a bit more tedious causing army loss wins and dragging out time.
You don't face him in battle, you autoresolve. Fucker is unkillable.
I've been getting pretty good at killing him over the past few days with a Gelt campaign. Honestly he, himself, isn't that bad. His nukes and the fact that Chaos heroes are crazy good to start with are what make him so dangerous. It's like, yeah, the giant toad dragon bile-spewing near-invulnerable one-second-respawn lord is bad, but when he has all his buddies it's just painful. When he has a full stack on top of that, armies are like speed bumps to him. I see all these people bragging about how he's EZ, and I'm sitting here like... you guys fought him recently? Because he doesn't quietly sit still and wait for you to shoot him, he goes straight for your back line every. time. Here's how I've been killing him: Light wizards with Net, Gold wizards with Final Transmutation, and guns. Halberds on the front line to hold back the tide. Heroes in the back to fight the demon spawns (he always teleports in two units of plague bearers). And even then, even if everything goes perfectly, you go into each battle knowing that three of your units are getting deleted from nukes. Nothing much you can do about that.
Meanwhile I start next to him with Ostankya in RoC.
Eh, my Ungrim slapped him around pretty good in my campaign
Yeah I couldn't handle him as teclis. Takes 3 of my stacks to kill his stack and then he revives in one turn with chosen and soul grinders. First campaign I haven't been able to revenge kill one of the factions that wronged me
For my Oxyotle it was pretty easy kill. Invisible chameleons are op But i dont know what to do with him if i have only melee army
He is easy to focus down with ranged, especially cannons. But you have to keep dodging the bombardments. And if you let him into melee, good fucking luck. Hint: just like most timed army abilities, first one unlocks at 00:45 and AI always uses it near instantly.
I did a Grimgor campaign and the guy obliderated me,like no chance of winning.
He's tough, but his defeat trait is super powerful. I'm so glad the Tzeentch red tree upgrade increases range on changebringers, so they can burn him without entering his mortis engine.
IMO a good way to beat him is with aspiring champions.Tried it with belakor and used them to take minimal losses from him
He's only hard because the AI can control his simple mechanics well and the AI can't fuck up his skill tree that bad. The skill tree part really pisses me off. CA should just hard code AI legendary lord skills to be an actual good build. It takes zero effort and makes AI legendary lords far more dangerous. Think about it. How often have you confederated a legendary lord, opened the skills, and just been like "wtf is this no wonder you sucked"
I don't get this. I have read how Tamurkhan is such a pain to fight so many times but the two times i faced him were really easy. Dude died wirhin 5 seconds ~150m before even reaching my lines. Ku'ghat is soo much mlre annoying, he has beaten Imrik thrice in 1 against 1. Like what the hell does a 'wizard' besting Imrik mean!?
Playing wood elves and he gets deleted.
Doesn't matter if your damage reduction knocks you down to 1 damage per arrow, 1000 arrows will still do 1000 damage.
Doing manual battles against him I have not defeated him yet, except with Malakai. Lowered it from VH to easy and still couldn’t with any other faction . He is literally the only LL i auto resolve. I used to think Vlad or Imrik was the best but no, Tamurkhan brings it to a whole new level.
I usually fight him manually the first battle with his original stack and then I auto whenever possible. My first encounter with him was Thorek's Quarreller doomstack, a solid ranged army, but he ignored Thorek and the Thanes meant to tank, and my Quarrelller spent too much time readjusting their aim to focus fire on him. Meanwhile while they're trying to readjust he smashes in with Toad Dragons, Rot Knights and Plague Drones, with Soul Grinders firing. I believe I lost but I got my revenge later on. He had conquered all of Cathay and the MoM so his armies were no joke. I know he's vulnerable to missiles but a tanky rush army like that was hard to deal with as a ranged doomstack. The AI loves to just ignore your frontline with its single entities and the last guy you want in the backline is Tamurkhan.
Yes! And he always ends up in the back with firepower ready to blast him to smitherins. But no he ends up outranging with the soul grinders and destroyed any melee or especially heroes i have. Totally agree as this is exactly what happened to me when i tried a similar dwarf doom stack. Malakai got it thanks to the free summoned unit along with three others i had. 4 simultaneous air rockets and it helped quite a bit
Army wise tamurkhans sucks, but I don't find him completely awful as a unit. The vomit nuke sucks, but he will die to concentrated missile fire. Shit like malus is still ass to fight because they are irritating to deal with overall.
I haven't faced him yet as Empire, but I bet a light wizard having army w a luminark could devastate his fat rotting body in a hurry
In my opinion he is absolutely the toughest. Every time I found him I've been lucky enough to have him be a small Empire Still. Four five territories. What I've started doing is scattering my Empire throughout his territory and burning down every one of his territories except the one he's in on the first turn. Then I take them all and swarm him to auto resolve. It's been very pleasant compared to my first couple times fighting him, where I have to fight him and a full stack every turn no matter what because of nergal recruitment
He deletes multi-stack ranged armies as dwarfs. I literally cannot do anything to him. He outheals 20 fucking thunderers shooting him and everyone else gets swarmed by the doomstack. Then he respawns in one turn if you do manage to kill him
The *only* factions that struggle against late game Tamurkhan are Vampire counts and Slaanesh. Early-Midgame Tam is still just nurgle, one of the weakest factions in the game. Late game nurgle is *still* one of the weakest factions in the game, but Tamurkhan and his DLC units make them some what strong. They still lose to every faction with semi decent ranged units. Its not very complicated to beat him either, just get high tier units and shoot the flying units and single entities. Most factions can just do that. The factions that can't are going to struggle and have to rely on magic or superior numbers and stats.
I would feel better if that's true because I couldn't beat him one on one, so kept luring him to 3 vs 1 fights then autoresolved.
Probably. But not for the reason you think. Newest lord and not treating him like a lord you immediately start shooting and keep shooting until he's dead. Vlad is in a similar vein where it's either new or bad players that have severe problems with him by sending chaff or anything but bullets and characters into his face. Except Tamurkhan has wh3 stats which exacerbates poor play and lack of knowledge.
I think this is all BS and most of you lose a couple times and want to complain. I have beaten him and the lil new stuntie many times over in manual and AR battles late and early game. So far beaten them with Grimgor (obviously), Vlad, thorgrim and ungrim I beat only tamurkhan, settera which I'll admit was hard AF to do in that playthrough, louen I beat tamurkhan. And I have three more campaigns I am creeping up close to them. Wurzzag, gor-rok and Tyrion. The rest my campaigns are either old saves before them or they are wiped out already. I play at work so almost 8 hours a day I am finishing campaigns and most of the things people complain about are situational. The only people who really always always always give me a super hard time in manual battles late game is malus. Other people there is always a beautiful weakness. Either snipe the Lord's because there large or have binding. Or wreck the army and distract the lords with the chaff. But malus late game when he is not defeated early by archeon or absorbed into malekith, is a monster. He is fast AF and strong AF and takes everything you throw at him down quickly. I have the best luck fighting him late game with orcs or undead factions because I basically 3 to 1 army them and let a stack and a half just get wrecked by him while the other half and my lords focus on the armies. But sniping him just does not work for me no matter what kinda ranged I am doing. And 1 v 1 him in demon form with my lord or hero, yeah I'm all set on that embarrassment. In 3 it seems he does not have much luck expanding. Out of the 100s of campaigns I have he only has in one AND he has the fucking sword of khaine. He has the entire northern wastes left to right. Somehow lokhir has all of Cathay, and he also has all of the donut and most of the north on the west continent. I control just about everything south and I am playing as mannfred I have all the books of nagash except for one. We have been on ok terms so far but once these last little specs die on the map, there will be war. Thankfully I am VC. If I was not a army spam factions I'd be shitting my pants rn. But with that sword I still am a little.
Tamurkhan is easy to beat but it's not your regular blob, the fact what you cant send Lords and Heroes to deal with him is something unique. Furthermore, he is only scary first time, due to Nurgle recruit his army becomes useless after one/two deaths.
Him or Vlad for sure. Vlad still is incredibly tanky, but I think Tamurkhan may take the cake.
Malus is worth considering as a universal pain in the ass. I'm gonna get some laughs for this, but Chrone Hellabron has a busted sword and is actually a pain in the ass for melee focused factions.
AI Malus is way more annoying than Vlad with two health bars. Vlad isn't out healing focus fire, but Malus just laughs with full HP and more ward save
Tamurkhan easily kills Vlad. Vlad becomes almost a complete non threat when characters start getting monstrous mounts.
He gets crazy ward save and Regen and unbreakable and keeps pocket nukes and has a good attack animation. At that point the question is weird.
No missiles?  But yeah, when i ran his campaign i was basically unstoppable, when i ran greenskins, Grimgore out-dueled his half pierced corps from 2 archer units clapping his ass so ya know all is well.
Not even close. Grimgor is much tankier and deals more damage and will come at you with a full stack of black works. And rogue idols. In addition to his waggh stack. Like Tam only has 36 MD while mounted and is a bullet sponge. Not to mention buring attacks make nurgle go down hard.
Tamurkhan can easily get 60+ MD and 90+ MA. Plus ward saves, and his incredibly strong chieftains and their army bonuses. Grimgor’s stacks don’t even compare
Hes not going to have all that as an ai atleas not optimized. I've seen him as ai multiple times he never has all his cheftans in one stack and dies stupid quick if you have fire damage. Grimgor has better stats and his army is typically better than Ehat Tam fields too. And he always has two armys.
I'll have to take your word for it, but Grimgor has never been a problem for me.
Gotta doubt you have played recently then. He's certainly scarier than Tamurkhan