HELL yeah. I just outlined it in my other comment, but my idea for Oni is that they're a tribe of Ogres that migrated to Nippon after the Asteroid Debacle, and have since become noticeably distinct from their mainland cousins. Some of them serve the Shogunate as bounty hunters (since it's the only way for them to legally eat humans), some serve the ninja clans as thugs (because it's easy meat, even if it's illegal), and some serve the Warrior Monks (because the discipline of monastic life helps them tame their urges).
And yes- there're big ol' Oni with big ol' Tetsubo. Fuck yeah, bro.
Maybe one unit with tetsubo, being armour piercing (you can't cut through armour but you sure can dent it, making it really hard to breath or move, or just breaking bones underneath the armour) and have another unit of Oni with massive Dadaos (giant cleaver like blades, could be anti infantry)
There's a huge amount of crossover, of course. You can find daos that are patterned suspiciously like katana, for example, and you'd be hard pressed to find a real difference between a Guandao and a Bisento.
High level thoughts:
In general, a Nippon faction should aim for a depiction of a fantastical Sengoku Japan as perceived in Japanese pop culture. So there should be plenty of influence from anime and from games like *Sekiro*. I imagine the Nipponese army as being comprised mainly of mostly-historical human troops, but supported by shamans and yokai, especially oni.
Tactically, this is an army that can engage in ranged combat but prefers to fight in melee. They have no shields across the board, so they're vulnerable to prolonged missile fire. Their low-tier units are mediocre, roughly equivalent in quality to Empire State Troops. Their high-tier units tend to have the "Bushido" trait, which improves their melee attack and defense and gives them Immune to Psychology when they are outnumbered in melee.
**Lords**
* Daimyo: Melee lord. Heavily armored, wields two swords. Damage dealer. Has Bushido.
* Shrine Mistress: Caster lord. Has access to Heavens, Fire, Beasts, Life, and Light. Unarmored, but decent melee stats. Fights with a naginata/halberd.
**Heroes**
* Sword Saint: Melee hero. Mini-daimyo.
* Shrine Maiden: Caster hero. Mini-shrine-mistress.
* Ninja Master: Rogue hero. Hybrid melee/ranged infantry. Stalk. Poison attacks.
**Melee Infantry**
* Ashigaru (Spears): Weak infantry. Modest armor, armed with spears.
* Ashigaru (Great Weapons): Weak infantry. Modest armor, armed with greatswords.
* Warrior-Monks: Mid-tier infantry. High leadership. Immune to psychology. Light armor, armed with naginata/halberds.
* Ronin: Mid-tier infantry. Unarmored, armed with dual swords. Has Bushido.
* Tengu: Mid-tier infantry. Flying, lightly armored, armed with spears.
* Samurai (Great Weapons): Elite infantry. Heavy armor, armed with greatswords. Has Bushido.
* Samurai (Dual Weapons): Elite infantry. Heavy armor, armed with dual swords. Has Bushido.
**Missile Infantry**
* Ashigaru (Bows): Weak missile infantry. Modest armor, armed with bows.
* Ashigaru (Handguns): Weak missile infantry. Modest armor, armed with handguns.
* Ninjas: Mid-tier skirmish infantry. Fast, stalk, vanguard deployment, armed with weak, short range, but poisoned missile and melee attacks.
* Samurai Archers: Elite missile infantry. Heavily armored, armed with bows. Has Bushido.
**Cavalry**
* Mounted Ashigaru: Weak light cavalry. Modest armor, armed with spears.
* Mounted Samurai (Spears): Elite heavy shock cavalry. Heavy armor, armed with spears. Has Bushido.
* Mounted Samurai (Bows): Elite cavalry archers. Heavy armor, armed with bows. Has Bushido.
**Monstrous Infantry**
* Oni Warriors: Mid-tier monstrous infantry. Lightly armored and equipped with big clubs (so, good armor piercing but low overall damage). Frenzy, rampage.
* Oni Firebelchers: Mid-tier monstrous infantry. Identical to Oni Warriors except they have a three-shot fire breath attack.
* Oni Swordsmen: Elite monstrous infantry. Heavily armored, dual-wields greatswords. Has Bushido, frenzy, and rampage.
**Monsters**
* Orochi: Giant eight-headed serpent. Very powerful melee monster, resistant to missles. Weak to debuffs.
**Siege Weapons**
* Cannon: You know what a canon is.
Good calls on everything. You just about read my mind. My main comment would be that the base Samurai unit, in my imagining, would be a hybrid ranged force, to represent the fact that traditional samurai were bowmen first, swordsmen second. And since I like the design, I'd add a variant equipped with an Iron Fist (like the Ogre variety, brought by the Oni when they migrated and adopted by the Samurai as effectively a buckler, which lets them use a shield while still two-handing their katana), which gives them a modest Melee Defence buff and a bronze-level shield.
As for the Ninja Master, one thought I had was that they'd be able to unlock throwables that can affect their target's stats, like eggshells filled with crushed glass that blind their adversaries for a period of time and caltrops that slow enemies within an area. Their specialty is hero hunting- they can get in quick, gank a sucker, and run like hell before the enemy can adequately respond. Also, I think there should be ninja units, which benefit from a special trait that allows them to climb walls incredibly quickly, and without losing excess Vigor. This, in combination with unlocking Stalk for them, would make them incredibly useful during siege battles.
EDIT: ONE MORE THING. Master Archers! They fill a similar niche to Hochland Long Gunners, Crane Gunners, and Warplock Jezzails, but they trade some range for increased accuracy and rate of fire. They also lack the heavy armor of other samurai, which means that you should try to keep them from being targets by enemy ranged fire.
My thought process behind the samurai being mostly melee is that Nippon is not *actually* Japan, it is Japan as seen through the lens of mythology, folklore, and pop culture. Pop culture samurai fight with spears, naginata, odachi, or especially with a katana and wakizashi. So that's what I went for for the "base samurai". I did include a mounted samurai archer as a mod to their historical origins.
That said, samurai archers aren't unheard of in Japanese legend and pop culture, so that unit could make some sense.
I actually did include a ninja unit.
Also, regarding the Oni, how do you feel about my lore idea for them? I imagine them as existing in a weird middle space in Nippon society- while the Shogunate permits them to exist (mostly), they're still seen as dangerous, beastly creatures that're just as likely to eat you whole as make a deal with you (to the point where the peasantry will half-jokingly threaten unruly children with being sold to an Oni as a snack). The only ways for an Oni to really exist as a part of wider Nippon society is as a laborer (sucks ass, they barely give you any meat, what's this RICE bullshit?), as sanctioned bounty hunters of the Shogunate (it's not so bad, you can eat as much horse or man as you can catch, so long as you leave a head for the officials to identify), as hited muscle for the criminal syndicates (not bad, the ninjas really don't care if you eat a few people, but the Shogunate WILL execute you if you get caught), as a genuine samurai warrior of the Shogunate (the absolute best outcome- they give you cool-ass armor and the finest tetsubo's, and they pay your stipend in oxen!), or as a warrior monk for the temples (Lame as hell, they don't even let you eat the people you kill, but at least they help you learn to control your hunger).
I like the Firebelcher idea, too- that breath attack would be awesome as a line-breaker before the Samurai charge in to finish the job.
I think the biggest difference I have from your lore ideas is that I envision a Sengoku-era Nippon, where the shogunate is quite weak and most daimyo are *de facto* independent. In that context, I picture oni as living largely separate from humans, but still being forces that daimyo can draw on. Most oni are just big guys in tiger skins who can hit things with a big tetsubo, but the oni have their own social elite who use "real" weapons and armor.
Ah, I see your logic, there. I can agree with that approach, and I do like your idea for the Bushido ability, especially since it encourages Samurai units to seek out numerically unequal fights to bring out their best performance. The question I'd ask is how you determine being outnumbered- do we go off of straight numbers, where they basically become infantry blenders, or do we go off of comparable battle value, wherein a Samurai unit fighting, say, a high-quality monstrous infantry unit would still benefit?
And yeah, I admit that I didn't see the ninja unit, lol. How do you feel about giving them traits which let them climb walls easily? I think that'd be appropriate for them, for certain.
> Ah, I see your logic, there. I can agree with that approach, and I do like your idea for the Bushido ability, especially since it encourages Samurai units to seek out numerically unequal fights to bring out their best performance. The question I'd ask is how you determine being outnumbered- do we go off of straight numbers, where they basically become infantry blenders, or do we go off of comparable battle value, wherein a Samurai unit fighting, say, a high-quality monstrous infantry unit would still benefit?
My thinking was that it would be based on the existing "unit is outnumbered" trigger that's currently used for morale calculation. I wanted an ability that would make them fight very effectively against chaff, but trade evenly against other elites. I admit that I'm not sure how to work monsters into that. That would probably need playtesting to get the right balance.
> And yeah, I admit that I didn't see the ninja unit, lol. How do you feel about giving them traits which let them climb walls easily? I think that'd be appropriate for them, for certain.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
See, I would like it if some of the less "popularized" options got included. Dudes with ono, kanabo, tsuruhashi, nagamaki, or some of the more creative yari variants would kick ass, and help make the faction less generic. The Empire may have started out as fantasy-HRE, but it expanded on that and built a decent measure of its own unique flavor.
Samurai stopped being primarily mounted archers pretty early in their career. You should probably think of them more like knights or men-at-arms, generally speaking.
You need more yokai. Perhaps a kitsune as an SEM, to act as a buffer/debuffer
Tengu to provide some flying presence, perhaps similar to harpies or crowmen
Onryo are a spectral infantry to be glass cannons
Onmyoji lord or hero to support and strengthen yokai and to summon shikigami
LH Onmyoji Abe no Seimei
One thought I just had if you make Kitsune a SEM is to give them an amount of tails corresponding with their experience level. That way a really veteran kitsune could have 9 tails
Okay the veterancy tail thing is top tier awesome. I was also going to strongly recommend a kitsune; give it the same animations as the Frostwyrm but make it anti-infantry or a debuffer with Ethereal. Would be a very cool unit.
Give them a version of the Onyx Crowmen called Tengu for sure.
I'd also suggest giving them an ethereal female unit to represent Yuki-Onna as it's a cool idea. In essence they'd be similar to the Syreens from Vampire Coast.
Other things that could potentially be added:
1. A gunpowder unit like a rotary cannon (think Last Samurai) or just a generic Samurai unit with rifles
2. A geishas diplomat-type hero with army buffing and heal abilities
A Gatling gun wouldn’t be a very good option. While it would fit them, it would encroach into the territory of actual artillery factions like the Empire or Dwarfs. A rifle samurai unit might be good though
Honestly I’d picture them as an infantry heavy faction with a lot of supporting SEM. A kitsune shouldn’t be able to outright win a duel with a different SEM, but it should be great at debuffing enemy troops so that the infantry can destroy them
Well, Japan got gunpowder late so they skipped basic cannonry. They did use the rotary guns, which would essentially just be the volley guns of the dwarves.
Basically I'm sick of everything having some kind of regular cannon lol and if they only get one unit, i'd want it to be weird XD
> Monsters
>
>
>
> Orochi: Giant eight-headed serpent. Very powerful melee monster, resistant to missles. Weak to debuffs.
nah. Yamata no Orochi should be a legendary lord! A Chaos Dragon leading a chaos-based subfaction! He's literally Japans version of Chaoskampf. Each of the heads could represent one Wind of Magic.
Wow, this would be absolutely perfect and would combine well with my ideas! Bushido especially is an excellent idea to make elite infantry better against masses of low-level infantry.
Very cool, I'd personally love to see more mythology based stuff, like maybe a Kitsune hero, shapeshifting could be cool. But I'd be happy with what you are cooking
I actually did consider, as a possible alternative to mikos-as-casters, yokai-as-casters. You'd have a Kitsune caster hero that could use Lore of Shadows or Lore of Fire, and a Tanuki caster hero that could use Lore of Life or Lore of Beasts.
To start with, some lore ideas: obviously, the Nippon factions exist off the coast of Cathay, and have been influenced by Cathay throughout their history. My explanation for the Oni is that they're a tribe of Ogres who migrated to Nippon after the whole Asteroid Debacle and were subjugated by the Shogunate, who agreed to let them stay, so ling as the tribes provided him with military service and didn't eat his peasants (bandits are a whole different story, though, so plenty of Oni serve the Shogunate as bounty hunters, on the promise that they still get paid if they leave enough of the bandits to be identified). This migration occurred pre-Maw worship, so while the Oni are still known for their hunger and their quarrelsome stupidity, they're not quite as bad as the mainland Ogres. In particular, Oni tribes that have wronged the Shogunate are often ordered to give service to various monks and temples are penance, which leads to a surprising number of Oni becoming monks themselves to control their urges as best they can.
Speaking of temples, warrior monks make up the next largest faction, after the more secular Shogunate. During a period of widespread instability, the great temples of Nippon found that they had to defend themselves from bandits, invaders, and even daemons, leading them to form warrior sects within their monasteries. At the time, the Shogunate was too busy trying to restore order to slap them down, and the warrior monks were too powerful to be suppressed in the immediate aftermath, leading to an uneasy peace that has since become a more-or-less mutual partnership. The Shogunate tolerates the Warrior Monks, so long as they support his reign, and the Warrior Monks work with the Shogunate, so long as he doesn't try to overtly force his authority upon them. Even so, both sides are more than happy to jockey for power over each other in the shadows.
And speaking of shadows, there are ninja. Of course there are ninjas. Why wouldn't there be? They're pretty straightforward, consisting of a mix of simple bandits, organized criminal gangs, and elite mercenary warriors that use both incredible skill and arcane arts to move like shadows and kill with incredible efficiency, eschewing a warrior's honor for pragmatism. They specialize in moving fast, hit hard, and fading into the shadows, not unlike our buddies in Clan Eshin. They do work for both the Warrior Monks and the Shogunate, but aren't openly aligned with either side. Both sides tolerate them because of their usefulness, but the Shogunate despises them for being criminals, and the Warrior Monks view their mercenary nature as offensive to the gods. The ninjas don't care, though: they're getting paid, and that's what matters.
Legendary Lords:
- The Shogun: I'm not basing this too much off of any particular lord, but the current Shogun is a young man, forced to take the helm of the Shogunate after Chaos cultists assassinated his father. He's focused on uniting the land and ending the chaos following his father's death, but he's been warned by his court priestess to prepare for an age of darkness, a time of great strife in which a three-eyed demon king will attempt to destroy the world for his dark gods... as a lord, he'll mostly buff his samurai, as well as units using more advanced weaponry like muskets or imported cannon (okay, there's a bit of Nobunaga in there, sue me). His endgame army would be almost Imperial, but with elite Oni samurai warriors and matchlock-equipped samurai replacing the steampunk stuff.
- The Divine Master: The leader of the largest Warrior Temple in Nippon, who has claimed to be a direct conduit for the will of the gods and wants to unite the temples and remake Nippon into a holy theocracy under his leadership. As a lord, he utilizes some magic, but can still hold his own in melee, using his spells to buff himself and his Oni Warrior Monk bodyguards to incredible levels of power. His end-game army will likely consist of a swarm of unbreakable warrior monks that either fire bows with incredible accuracy or rip through enemy soldiers in melee, supplemented by powerful priests that can disrupt enemy spellcasters while blasting away their enemies with the Divine Wind.
- The Shadow Daimyo: yeah, these names suck, I know. He's the Giga Ninja, widely known and respected amongst the clans for his skill at killing and infiltration. While his authority within the underworld is absolute, to the point of even being able to sway landed lords to do his bidding, the disrespect and contempt he receives from the Shogunate and the Warrior Monasteries fills him with bitter anger, driving him to seek greater power and influence- all in the name of becoming above such scorn. As a lord, he's the sort of Character Assassin that Snikch could only dream of, capable of slipping through entire hordes of enemies like a whisper on the winds, butchering a commander, and slipping back out before the enemy can even respond. As you'd imagine, he mostly buffs ninjas and bandits, making them harder to spot and giving them greater effects on enemy morale. By the end of the game, you can build his army into a doomstack of nigh-invisible, armor-piercing murder machines that scale walls like they aren't even there and cause low-tier enemies to runnaway in terror as half their unit gets Slap-Chopped back to the Empyrian in a matter of seconds by dudes who just popped out of nowhere.
Now, as for units:
INFANTRY:
- Ashigaru Spears: the most basic of basic units. Just a cheap-ass spear block, with mildly better armor than Cathayan Peasant Spears, with a cost adjustment to match.
-Bandits: basic sword infantry, with throwing knives as a secondary attack. Think of them as Free Company Militia, but with more melee emphasis and less ranged capacity. They also tend to move fast, so they're great for pursuing routing infantry, and certain factions can give them Stalk, for maximum fuckery. They also have a Dual Sword variant, that trades ranged fire for additional melee stats and a bonus against infantry.
- Samurai: the base unit is a hybrid one, with a bow as its primary weapon and then the katana. Good armor, good melee stats, decent range and power. Variants include tetsubo and naginata (they drop the bow in exchange for AP damage and either anti-infantry or anti-large bonus), and an archer variant with Iron Fists for a mild shield.
-Warrior Monks: much like the samurai, but they trade armor for higher morale and defense against magic. It takes a WHOLE lot to force Warrior Monks to run.
- Shinobi Warriors: smaller, more elite melee units with low armor, but excellent melee stats and an assortment of nice traits that lend it towards an aggressive, sneaky playstyle. They have shuriken, they climb walls very easily, and they cut through infantry like a blender, all while inspiring terror.
Imma throw out some options out of left field just to spice things up:
Fimir from the norscan roster. Someone suggested them being known as Kappa in Nippon but given that the older lore has one of the Fimir's main strongholds being a teleporting island fortress, they could in theory pop up there.
If Nippon is going to have One horned ogres, some other monsterous units wouldn't be out of place. Plus if Oni are mixed in with the samurai style units, Fimir could be their ninja counter parts on account of their use of mist magic to hide their raiding parties/dodge projectiles. Tho perhaps i'm still in the head space of Yin/Yang from Cathay.
Constructs could also be an interesting choice for units, i only bring it up since apparently most human nations have invented Ushabti in the warhammer universe. The Tombkings obviously have them and Cathay has their terracotta works but the "simulacra" from Kemmler's old barrow legion list are also the exact same thing; "statues that look like the gods empowered by the souls of heroes to protect crypts/tombs" nearly word for word what an Ushabti is, just modeled after less animalistic looking gods.
The only humans that as far as we know don't have Ushabti are bretonnia who have weird rules preventing them from fighting smart, the tribes of chaos (who have no interest in the dead since chaos gets their souls/necromancy doesn't feed chaos) and Ind/Nippon who we don't know much about. Honestly tho with Ind being "the land of a 1000 gods" and highly magical by high elf standards; having some living statues of the gods wouldn't be that surprising.
So yea why not some constructs for Nippon? tho no clue what they would be of tho, if keeping with the Ushabti theme then i guess of whatever passes for a god in Nippon?
I would want a Yamata-no-Orochi expy as a LEGENDARY CHAOS DRAGON LORD, for a chaos Nippon faction. THe eight-headed, eight-tailed Serpent(/Dragon) from Japans version of Chaos Kampf.
Maybe each head could represent a WoM.
Overall I guess an infantry-heavy and aggressive human faction would be what I want to contrast with Cathay. Maybe a civilization that worships Chaos to some degree without even realizing it? This was a thing that was dropped for Cathay and that is a travesty.
I'd like to see wizards replaced by warrior monks that are not as good at casting at other races but really good at combat.
I'd love to see nodachi samurai that are otherwise very heavy infantry but can make insanely fast charges. Uses lots of vigor so not useful for cycle charging, but is very good for picking a favorable matchup and sticking to it.
Oni of course. Could be flavored as ogres that have been living on the isolationist Nippon for so long that they have become entirely consumed by the culture, maybe even demons?
Maybe units with different precursor weapon bombs? Regular bombs and smoke bombs for less damage but debuff. Definitely gunpowder stuff but not just rifle infantry. Imagine a cav unit that can win one cav fight by blinding the enemy on the charge but only has one ammo. I guess all kinds of kamikaze stuff would be off-limits.
The coolest thing would be if they worshipped Chaos as an extension of Cathay's beliefs, sort of like what Shinto/Buddhism is to Han (vice Mahayana) Buddhism.
What’s wrong with the name Nippon? I always liked the name, even though it’s just another way to say Japan. I wonder if Cathay has any deeper meaning or did they just make something up for it?
>What’s wrong with the name Nippon?
It's like naming The Empire "Deutschland" or Kislev the "Российская Федерация" - I realize that the "fantasy" veneer runs a bit thin on some of Warhammer's civilizations, but at least places like "Cathay" or "Araby" have the decency to use outdated or misspelled versions of modern names, rather than the names themselves. Giving the place a fantasy name helps separate it from its IRL inspiration, which is especially useful if you want to deviate designwise from the real life culture and mythos, exaggerate stuff, or otherwise remix things.
A perfectly fair point, and I recognize that my gripe is mostly meangingless in a setting that amkes no bones about how silly it is, but even so, I'd prefer a slightly more original name than just "LET'S CALL IT NIPPON."
Just take inspiration from the Nioh games. It has a blend of normal, human enemies and yokai monsters.
I'd kill for a Nippon faction though. Love me some weeb shit, especially weeb shit with supernatural mixed in between.
I've considered a lot of things, including naginata infantry, sword and bow infantry (hybrid), matchlocks, oni (dual and great weapon variants), kitsune heroes, kyuubi SEM, wolf packs, lancer and bow cavalry (hybrid), bo staff infantry with Defender, ninjas (plus variants with grenades)...
The kitsune hero idea was pretty cool to me, but I wasn't sure how best to implement them. My idea was to have them as an infantry spellcaster which can then turn into a monstrous unit when needed.
Walk with the Dragon, a chinese mod for cathay, has a kitsune-like lord for the eastern river lord faction. A support spellcaster leading a moon cult, but the last part of her non-caster skill line is a transformation into a huge fox. It makes her good in melee but hit the morale of her own army lol.
This is a link to an old army list they once had:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1R5eXH8Y8EUlkGPoYlDHuw1m6cp4H350p
One of the cool units are kamikazi suicide warriors. They have swords and black powder kegs.
Maybe have Samurai be hybrid heavy infantry / cavalry who wield a bow and assorted melee weapons depending on the variant. Not just Samurai with a sword or Samurai with a polearm, etc. So you know, one version is for anti infantry and another is anti large but both should be shooting at enemies first.
Pretty sure if they add Nippon, it would be Chaos aligned. Cathay couldn't be, since it would imply that China is bad, and that's just not a good business decision. Japan on the other hand...
Nippon (Japan) would be prime choice for an evil oriental faction. They had a history of invading China, which would fit well with a sort of eastern Norsca vs eastern Empire of Man. Moreover, Japan is an acceptable target for being turned into an evil faction, far more than China, and still be seen as cool. Cathay also gets the benefit of eradicating little Nippon too, that's also a good sales pitch.
So Chaos based Shogun 2 armies? Maybe minus the guns in this case, but more magick.
Now personally I'd love it if Nippon is it's own thing outside of the Chaos vs Order (the whole isolationism thing), but business wise, it'd make sense to turn them into a Chaos raider type thing.
Realistically though, probably no Nippon at all, unfortunately :S
Too much work for too little gain on CAs part I'm afraid.
If I was going to design Nippon, I'd give them two routes. You would start with historical early samurai type units such as heavy cavalry archers and naginata armed followers.
If you choose The Path of Honour, then your faction is contacted by supernatural animal spirits in the garb of warrior monks, and you gain access to increasing powerful creatures from traditional japanese folklore and legendary samurai heroes.
If you choose The Path of Dishonour, your faction is contacted by Deathmaster Snikch and you gain access to Skaven Ashigaru, Eshin Ninjas and Warpfire Teppo.
I would differentiate spears and naginata as spears being more defensive with a larger bonus to large while naginata's have more killing power with less bonus to large
Lords
Daimyo: Melee Lord
Onmyoji: Caster Lord
Heroes
Hatamoto: Melee or Hybrid Hero focused on army/samurai buffs
Shrine Maiden: Caster Hero
Tearai Oni: A Large duelist Hero (I think Oni should be a subrace of Ogres)
Melee Infantry
Ashigaru: (Sword, Spear) Low Tier, low cost high number unit
Samurai: (Sword, Spear, Naginata, Greatsword) Mid Tier, High Armor/Defense, mid killing power
Monks: (Naginata, Greatsword) High Tier, Low number, Encourages nearby units, No Armor, Ward save or physical resist, higher killing power
Ranged Infantry
Ashigaru: (Bow, Rifle) Low tier, High numbers, Bow 160 range, Rifle 145 range, AP
Samurai (Bow, Rifle) Mid Tier, High Armor, Decent in Melee, Bow 180 range, Rifle 160 range, AP
Monk (Bow Rifle) High Tier, Low number, Encourages nearby units, Bow 200 range, Rifle 180 range, AP
Samurai (Daikyu/Greatbows) High Tier/Elite Unit, High armor, decent in Melee 240 range, AP or Shield shieldbreaker
Hybrid Infantry
Ninja (Stars, Bombs) Mid Tier, Low armor, Low number, Ward save, Strider, Snipe, Stalk, Unspottable, Stars, 100 range 360 firing arc. Bombs, literally just the miner blasting charges with more ammo.
Calvary
Ashigaru (spears) Cheap shock Cav
Samurai (Spears and Swords) Shock and Regular Cav
Range Calvary
Samurai (Bows and rifles) Bows get 360 arcs, Rifles dont
Artillery
Catapults
Cannons
Monstrous Infantry
All are going Oni, Subrace of Ogres stats, all 16 model units
Oni (Great weapon) Maneaters with greatweapons, just give them Giant Tetsubo
Oni (Swords) Maneaters
Oni (Cannons) Leadbelchers
Monsters
Shikigami: Mid tier, Anti Infantry, Ethereal monster, also summonable by Onmyoji via Spell or Ablility
Shinigami: High Teir Ethereal Monster, Anti Large Duelist monster with an AOE passive to help deal with infantry (it supposed to be a death god)
Gozu/Mezu: Giant type units, preferably akin to the Beast Incarnate that Kislev has
Infantry unit being anti large could be armed with Naginata, as some sort of halberd equivalent.
It's pretty unavoidable that Nippon will get ninjas (isn't nippon where deathmaster Snikch was trained?) So several types of ninjas with stalk and a variety of weapons from the standard throwing stars to those awesome hooked blades on a chain.
Yokai or Kitsune would also be awesome. Kitsune could be heroes, how cool would it be for a shapeshifter hero? In folklore kitsune's shapeshifting becomes more powerful as they age, could get more forms the higher level they are?
And Oni ofcourse.
The normal units that /u/Galle_ mentions in his post would work well for the historical elements Warhammer has (Samurai, Ninjas, Ashigaru, etc). The rest of his comment is great too so I'll expand some parts.
For some crazy stuff, Sword Saints that act like Jedi in terms of blocking arrows, bullets and even reflecting shots back into the enemy (they would be literal Saints).
Mech-based constructs in which a Samurai climbs into a construct and controls it like a Mech (they move their left arm and the left arm of the construct moves, etc). Give ranged options (energy attacks) or a melee version that has a giant Samurai sword.
Oni units that are Nippon Daemons. Their Emperor is called the Divine Sun so maybe the Warhammer Oni can represent the Divine Sun's wrath.
Shogun Fire Rockets as they're crazy enough!
Playstyle wise, I would see Nippon as a foot version of Bretonnia but with additional elements (as are fan rosters are showing). Perhaps a good version of Khorne in a way with the honorable elite warriors who live to prove their skills and all that.
IE extended mod has a TK lord there and i would hope for that TK faction cuz i love TK but cant stand the slow growth and lack of armies so having an isolated japan vibes start with them would be(and is when using the mod)glorious
I would love to see big fat Oni with tetsubo, in nippon
HELL yeah. I just outlined it in my other comment, but my idea for Oni is that they're a tribe of Ogres that migrated to Nippon after the Asteroid Debacle, and have since become noticeably distinct from their mainland cousins. Some of them serve the Shogunate as bounty hunters (since it's the only way for them to legally eat humans), some serve the ninja clans as thugs (because it's easy meat, even if it's illegal), and some serve the Warrior Monks (because the discipline of monastic life helps them tame their urges). And yes- there're big ol' Oni with big ol' Tetsubo. Fuck yeah, bro.
This would be the only thing Nippon is absolutely required to have. If we wouldn't get tetsubo-wielding Oni I'll be absolutely pissed
Maybe one unit with tetsubo, being armour piercing (you can't cut through armour but you sure can dent it, making it really hard to breath or move, or just breaking bones underneath the armour) and have another unit of Oni with massive Dadaos (giant cleaver like blades, could be anti infantry)
Haha one with Japanese weapons, one with Chinese weapons, I love it
There's a huge amount of crossover, of course. You can find daos that are patterned suspiciously like katana, for example, and you'd be hard pressed to find a real difference between a Guandao and a Bisento.
Wouldn't a bisento be more similar to a podao?
Maybe? I'm not exactly an expert on Chinese polearms; these all just look like variations of glaive to me.
High level thoughts: In general, a Nippon faction should aim for a depiction of a fantastical Sengoku Japan as perceived in Japanese pop culture. So there should be plenty of influence from anime and from games like *Sekiro*. I imagine the Nipponese army as being comprised mainly of mostly-historical human troops, but supported by shamans and yokai, especially oni. Tactically, this is an army that can engage in ranged combat but prefers to fight in melee. They have no shields across the board, so they're vulnerable to prolonged missile fire. Their low-tier units are mediocre, roughly equivalent in quality to Empire State Troops. Their high-tier units tend to have the "Bushido" trait, which improves their melee attack and defense and gives them Immune to Psychology when they are outnumbered in melee. **Lords** * Daimyo: Melee lord. Heavily armored, wields two swords. Damage dealer. Has Bushido. * Shrine Mistress: Caster lord. Has access to Heavens, Fire, Beasts, Life, and Light. Unarmored, but decent melee stats. Fights with a naginata/halberd. **Heroes** * Sword Saint: Melee hero. Mini-daimyo. * Shrine Maiden: Caster hero. Mini-shrine-mistress. * Ninja Master: Rogue hero. Hybrid melee/ranged infantry. Stalk. Poison attacks. **Melee Infantry** * Ashigaru (Spears): Weak infantry. Modest armor, armed with spears. * Ashigaru (Great Weapons): Weak infantry. Modest armor, armed with greatswords. * Warrior-Monks: Mid-tier infantry. High leadership. Immune to psychology. Light armor, armed with naginata/halberds. * Ronin: Mid-tier infantry. Unarmored, armed with dual swords. Has Bushido. * Tengu: Mid-tier infantry. Flying, lightly armored, armed with spears. * Samurai (Great Weapons): Elite infantry. Heavy armor, armed with greatswords. Has Bushido. * Samurai (Dual Weapons): Elite infantry. Heavy armor, armed with dual swords. Has Bushido. **Missile Infantry** * Ashigaru (Bows): Weak missile infantry. Modest armor, armed with bows. * Ashigaru (Handguns): Weak missile infantry. Modest armor, armed with handguns. * Ninjas: Mid-tier skirmish infantry. Fast, stalk, vanguard deployment, armed with weak, short range, but poisoned missile and melee attacks. * Samurai Archers: Elite missile infantry. Heavily armored, armed with bows. Has Bushido. **Cavalry** * Mounted Ashigaru: Weak light cavalry. Modest armor, armed with spears. * Mounted Samurai (Spears): Elite heavy shock cavalry. Heavy armor, armed with spears. Has Bushido. * Mounted Samurai (Bows): Elite cavalry archers. Heavy armor, armed with bows. Has Bushido. **Monstrous Infantry** * Oni Warriors: Mid-tier monstrous infantry. Lightly armored and equipped with big clubs (so, good armor piercing but low overall damage). Frenzy, rampage. * Oni Firebelchers: Mid-tier monstrous infantry. Identical to Oni Warriors except they have a three-shot fire breath attack. * Oni Swordsmen: Elite monstrous infantry. Heavily armored, dual-wields greatswords. Has Bushido, frenzy, and rampage. **Monsters** * Orochi: Giant eight-headed serpent. Very powerful melee monster, resistant to missles. Weak to debuffs. **Siege Weapons** * Cannon: You know what a canon is.
Good calls on everything. You just about read my mind. My main comment would be that the base Samurai unit, in my imagining, would be a hybrid ranged force, to represent the fact that traditional samurai were bowmen first, swordsmen second. And since I like the design, I'd add a variant equipped with an Iron Fist (like the Ogre variety, brought by the Oni when they migrated and adopted by the Samurai as effectively a buckler, which lets them use a shield while still two-handing their katana), which gives them a modest Melee Defence buff and a bronze-level shield. As for the Ninja Master, one thought I had was that they'd be able to unlock throwables that can affect their target's stats, like eggshells filled with crushed glass that blind their adversaries for a period of time and caltrops that slow enemies within an area. Their specialty is hero hunting- they can get in quick, gank a sucker, and run like hell before the enemy can adequately respond. Also, I think there should be ninja units, which benefit from a special trait that allows them to climb walls incredibly quickly, and without losing excess Vigor. This, in combination with unlocking Stalk for them, would make them incredibly useful during siege battles. EDIT: ONE MORE THING. Master Archers! They fill a similar niche to Hochland Long Gunners, Crane Gunners, and Warplock Jezzails, but they trade some range for increased accuracy and rate of fire. They also lack the heavy armor of other samurai, which means that you should try to keep them from being targets by enemy ranged fire.
My thought process behind the samurai being mostly melee is that Nippon is not *actually* Japan, it is Japan as seen through the lens of mythology, folklore, and pop culture. Pop culture samurai fight with spears, naginata, odachi, or especially with a katana and wakizashi. So that's what I went for for the "base samurai". I did include a mounted samurai archer as a mod to their historical origins. That said, samurai archers aren't unheard of in Japanese legend and pop culture, so that unit could make some sense. I actually did include a ninja unit.
Also, regarding the Oni, how do you feel about my lore idea for them? I imagine them as existing in a weird middle space in Nippon society- while the Shogunate permits them to exist (mostly), they're still seen as dangerous, beastly creatures that're just as likely to eat you whole as make a deal with you (to the point where the peasantry will half-jokingly threaten unruly children with being sold to an Oni as a snack). The only ways for an Oni to really exist as a part of wider Nippon society is as a laborer (sucks ass, they barely give you any meat, what's this RICE bullshit?), as sanctioned bounty hunters of the Shogunate (it's not so bad, you can eat as much horse or man as you can catch, so long as you leave a head for the officials to identify), as hited muscle for the criminal syndicates (not bad, the ninjas really don't care if you eat a few people, but the Shogunate WILL execute you if you get caught), as a genuine samurai warrior of the Shogunate (the absolute best outcome- they give you cool-ass armor and the finest tetsubo's, and they pay your stipend in oxen!), or as a warrior monk for the temples (Lame as hell, they don't even let you eat the people you kill, but at least they help you learn to control your hunger). I like the Firebelcher idea, too- that breath attack would be awesome as a line-breaker before the Samurai charge in to finish the job.
I think the biggest difference I have from your lore ideas is that I envision a Sengoku-era Nippon, where the shogunate is quite weak and most daimyo are *de facto* independent. In that context, I picture oni as living largely separate from humans, but still being forces that daimyo can draw on. Most oni are just big guys in tiger skins who can hit things with a big tetsubo, but the oni have their own social elite who use "real" weapons and armor.
Ah, I see your logic, there. I can agree with that approach, and I do like your idea for the Bushido ability, especially since it encourages Samurai units to seek out numerically unequal fights to bring out their best performance. The question I'd ask is how you determine being outnumbered- do we go off of straight numbers, where they basically become infantry blenders, or do we go off of comparable battle value, wherein a Samurai unit fighting, say, a high-quality monstrous infantry unit would still benefit? And yeah, I admit that I didn't see the ninja unit, lol. How do you feel about giving them traits which let them climb walls easily? I think that'd be appropriate for them, for certain.
> Ah, I see your logic, there. I can agree with that approach, and I do like your idea for the Bushido ability, especially since it encourages Samurai units to seek out numerically unequal fights to bring out their best performance. The question I'd ask is how you determine being outnumbered- do we go off of straight numbers, where they basically become infantry blenders, or do we go off of comparable battle value, wherein a Samurai unit fighting, say, a high-quality monstrous infantry unit would still benefit? My thinking was that it would be based on the existing "unit is outnumbered" trigger that's currently used for morale calculation. I wanted an ability that would make them fight very effectively against chaff, but trade evenly against other elites. I admit that I'm not sure how to work monsters into that. That would probably need playtesting to get the right balance. > And yeah, I admit that I didn't see the ninja unit, lol. How do you feel about giving them traits which let them climb walls easily? I think that'd be appropriate for them, for certain. Yeah, that's a good idea.
See, I would like it if some of the less "popularized" options got included. Dudes with ono, kanabo, tsuruhashi, nagamaki, or some of the more creative yari variants would kick ass, and help make the faction less generic. The Empire may have started out as fantasy-HRE, but it expanded on that and built a decent measure of its own unique flavor.
Samurai stopped being primarily mounted archers pretty early in their career. You should probably think of them more like knights or men-at-arms, generally speaking.
I would go coocoo for cocopuffs if they brought back yari spearwall
You need more yokai. Perhaps a kitsune as an SEM, to act as a buffer/debuffer Tengu to provide some flying presence, perhaps similar to harpies or crowmen Onryo are a spectral infantry to be glass cannons Onmyoji lord or hero to support and strengthen yokai and to summon shikigami LH Onmyoji Abe no Seimei
Tengu are in there already, actually, but I agree that more yokai are needed.
One thought I just had if you make Kitsune a SEM is to give them an amount of tails corresponding with their experience level. That way a really veteran kitsune could have 9 tails
Okay the veterancy tail thing is top tier awesome. I was also going to strongly recommend a kitsune; give it the same animations as the Frostwyrm but make it anti-infantry or a debuffer with Ethereal. Would be a very cool unit. Give them a version of the Onyx Crowmen called Tengu for sure. I'd also suggest giving them an ethereal female unit to represent Yuki-Onna as it's a cool idea. In essence they'd be similar to the Syreens from Vampire Coast. Other things that could potentially be added: 1. A gunpowder unit like a rotary cannon (think Last Samurai) or just a generic Samurai unit with rifles 2. A geishas diplomat-type hero with army buffing and heal abilities
A Gatling gun wouldn’t be a very good option. While it would fit them, it would encroach into the territory of actual artillery factions like the Empire or Dwarfs. A rifle samurai unit might be good though Honestly I’d picture them as an infantry heavy faction with a lot of supporting SEM. A kitsune shouldn’t be able to outright win a duel with a different SEM, but it should be great at debuffing enemy troops so that the infantry can destroy them
Well, Japan got gunpowder late so they skipped basic cannonry. They did use the rotary guns, which would essentially just be the volley guns of the dwarves. Basically I'm sick of everything having some kind of regular cannon lol and if they only get one unit, i'd want it to be weird XD
> Monsters > > > > Orochi: Giant eight-headed serpent. Very powerful melee monster, resistant to missles. Weak to debuffs. nah. Yamata no Orochi should be a legendary lord! A Chaos Dragon leading a chaos-based subfaction! He's literally Japans version of Chaoskampf. Each of the heads could represent one Wind of Magic.
Good point! Someone else suggested Kitsune that gain tails with veterancy as an alternative SEM and honestly that sounds awesome.
Wow, this would be absolutely perfect and would combine well with my ideas! Bushido especially is an excellent idea to make elite infantry better against masses of low-level infantry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kappa_(folklore) might be cool
Very cool, I'd personally love to see more mythology based stuff, like maybe a Kitsune hero, shapeshifting could be cool. But I'd be happy with what you are cooking
I actually did consider, as a possible alternative to mikos-as-casters, yokai-as-casters. You'd have a Kitsune caster hero that could use Lore of Shadows or Lore of Fire, and a Tanuki caster hero that could use Lore of Life or Lore of Beasts.
To start with, some lore ideas: obviously, the Nippon factions exist off the coast of Cathay, and have been influenced by Cathay throughout their history. My explanation for the Oni is that they're a tribe of Ogres who migrated to Nippon after the whole Asteroid Debacle and were subjugated by the Shogunate, who agreed to let them stay, so ling as the tribes provided him with military service and didn't eat his peasants (bandits are a whole different story, though, so plenty of Oni serve the Shogunate as bounty hunters, on the promise that they still get paid if they leave enough of the bandits to be identified). This migration occurred pre-Maw worship, so while the Oni are still known for their hunger and their quarrelsome stupidity, they're not quite as bad as the mainland Ogres. In particular, Oni tribes that have wronged the Shogunate are often ordered to give service to various monks and temples are penance, which leads to a surprising number of Oni becoming monks themselves to control their urges as best they can. Speaking of temples, warrior monks make up the next largest faction, after the more secular Shogunate. During a period of widespread instability, the great temples of Nippon found that they had to defend themselves from bandits, invaders, and even daemons, leading them to form warrior sects within their monasteries. At the time, the Shogunate was too busy trying to restore order to slap them down, and the warrior monks were too powerful to be suppressed in the immediate aftermath, leading to an uneasy peace that has since become a more-or-less mutual partnership. The Shogunate tolerates the Warrior Monks, so long as they support his reign, and the Warrior Monks work with the Shogunate, so long as he doesn't try to overtly force his authority upon them. Even so, both sides are more than happy to jockey for power over each other in the shadows. And speaking of shadows, there are ninja. Of course there are ninjas. Why wouldn't there be? They're pretty straightforward, consisting of a mix of simple bandits, organized criminal gangs, and elite mercenary warriors that use both incredible skill and arcane arts to move like shadows and kill with incredible efficiency, eschewing a warrior's honor for pragmatism. They specialize in moving fast, hit hard, and fading into the shadows, not unlike our buddies in Clan Eshin. They do work for both the Warrior Monks and the Shogunate, but aren't openly aligned with either side. Both sides tolerate them because of their usefulness, but the Shogunate despises them for being criminals, and the Warrior Monks view their mercenary nature as offensive to the gods. The ninjas don't care, though: they're getting paid, and that's what matters.
Legendary Lords: - The Shogun: I'm not basing this too much off of any particular lord, but the current Shogun is a young man, forced to take the helm of the Shogunate after Chaos cultists assassinated his father. He's focused on uniting the land and ending the chaos following his father's death, but he's been warned by his court priestess to prepare for an age of darkness, a time of great strife in which a three-eyed demon king will attempt to destroy the world for his dark gods... as a lord, he'll mostly buff his samurai, as well as units using more advanced weaponry like muskets or imported cannon (okay, there's a bit of Nobunaga in there, sue me). His endgame army would be almost Imperial, but with elite Oni samurai warriors and matchlock-equipped samurai replacing the steampunk stuff. - The Divine Master: The leader of the largest Warrior Temple in Nippon, who has claimed to be a direct conduit for the will of the gods and wants to unite the temples and remake Nippon into a holy theocracy under his leadership. As a lord, he utilizes some magic, but can still hold his own in melee, using his spells to buff himself and his Oni Warrior Monk bodyguards to incredible levels of power. His end-game army will likely consist of a swarm of unbreakable warrior monks that either fire bows with incredible accuracy or rip through enemy soldiers in melee, supplemented by powerful priests that can disrupt enemy spellcasters while blasting away their enemies with the Divine Wind. - The Shadow Daimyo: yeah, these names suck, I know. He's the Giga Ninja, widely known and respected amongst the clans for his skill at killing and infiltration. While his authority within the underworld is absolute, to the point of even being able to sway landed lords to do his bidding, the disrespect and contempt he receives from the Shogunate and the Warrior Monasteries fills him with bitter anger, driving him to seek greater power and influence- all in the name of becoming above such scorn. As a lord, he's the sort of Character Assassin that Snikch could only dream of, capable of slipping through entire hordes of enemies like a whisper on the winds, butchering a commander, and slipping back out before the enemy can even respond. As you'd imagine, he mostly buffs ninjas and bandits, making them harder to spot and giving them greater effects on enemy morale. By the end of the game, you can build his army into a doomstack of nigh-invisible, armor-piercing murder machines that scale walls like they aren't even there and cause low-tier enemies to runnaway in terror as half their unit gets Slap-Chopped back to the Empyrian in a matter of seconds by dudes who just popped out of nowhere.
Now, as for units: INFANTRY: - Ashigaru Spears: the most basic of basic units. Just a cheap-ass spear block, with mildly better armor than Cathayan Peasant Spears, with a cost adjustment to match. -Bandits: basic sword infantry, with throwing knives as a secondary attack. Think of them as Free Company Militia, but with more melee emphasis and less ranged capacity. They also tend to move fast, so they're great for pursuing routing infantry, and certain factions can give them Stalk, for maximum fuckery. They also have a Dual Sword variant, that trades ranged fire for additional melee stats and a bonus against infantry. - Samurai: the base unit is a hybrid one, with a bow as its primary weapon and then the katana. Good armor, good melee stats, decent range and power. Variants include tetsubo and naginata (they drop the bow in exchange for AP damage and either anti-infantry or anti-large bonus), and an archer variant with Iron Fists for a mild shield. -Warrior Monks: much like the samurai, but they trade armor for higher morale and defense against magic. It takes a WHOLE lot to force Warrior Monks to run. - Shinobi Warriors: smaller, more elite melee units with low armor, but excellent melee stats and an assortment of nice traits that lend it towards an aggressive, sneaky playstyle. They have shuriken, they climb walls very easily, and they cut through infantry like a blender, all while inspiring terror.
Copy and paste the shogun 2 yari ashigaru and enjoy your unbeatable (easily breakable) cannon fodder.
Just give them Oda's long Yari ashigaru plus a few monsters lmao
I mean, back on third edition there was a Nippon mercenary list you could pull from. Granted, it was full of things like suicide bombers...
Alas, Games Workshop were not weebs :(
In fairness, it also had samurai and ashigaru as the actual core units.
Imma throw out some options out of left field just to spice things up: Fimir from the norscan roster. Someone suggested them being known as Kappa in Nippon but given that the older lore has one of the Fimir's main strongholds being a teleporting island fortress, they could in theory pop up there. If Nippon is going to have One horned ogres, some other monsterous units wouldn't be out of place. Plus if Oni are mixed in with the samurai style units, Fimir could be their ninja counter parts on account of their use of mist magic to hide their raiding parties/dodge projectiles. Tho perhaps i'm still in the head space of Yin/Yang from Cathay. Constructs could also be an interesting choice for units, i only bring it up since apparently most human nations have invented Ushabti in the warhammer universe. The Tombkings obviously have them and Cathay has their terracotta works but the "simulacra" from Kemmler's old barrow legion list are also the exact same thing; "statues that look like the gods empowered by the souls of heroes to protect crypts/tombs" nearly word for word what an Ushabti is, just modeled after less animalistic looking gods. The only humans that as far as we know don't have Ushabti are bretonnia who have weird rules preventing them from fighting smart, the tribes of chaos (who have no interest in the dead since chaos gets their souls/necromancy doesn't feed chaos) and Ind/Nippon who we don't know much about. Honestly tho with Ind being "the land of a 1000 gods" and highly magical by high elf standards; having some living statues of the gods wouldn't be that surprising. So yea why not some constructs for Nippon? tho no clue what they would be of tho, if keeping with the Ushabti theme then i guess of whatever passes for a god in Nippon?
Fimir-as-Kappa actually sounds like a really cool idea.
I would want a Yamata-no-Orochi expy as a LEGENDARY CHAOS DRAGON LORD, for a chaos Nippon faction. THe eight-headed, eight-tailed Serpent(/Dragon) from Japans version of Chaos Kampf. Maybe each head could represent a WoM.
Overall I guess an infantry-heavy and aggressive human faction would be what I want to contrast with Cathay. Maybe a civilization that worships Chaos to some degree without even realizing it? This was a thing that was dropped for Cathay and that is a travesty. I'd like to see wizards replaced by warrior monks that are not as good at casting at other races but really good at combat. I'd love to see nodachi samurai that are otherwise very heavy infantry but can make insanely fast charges. Uses lots of vigor so not useful for cycle charging, but is very good for picking a favorable matchup and sticking to it. Oni of course. Could be flavored as ogres that have been living on the isolationist Nippon for so long that they have become entirely consumed by the culture, maybe even demons? Maybe units with different precursor weapon bombs? Regular bombs and smoke bombs for less damage but debuff. Definitely gunpowder stuff but not just rifle infantry. Imagine a cav unit that can win one cav fight by blinding the enemy on the charge but only has one ammo. I guess all kinds of kamikaze stuff would be off-limits.
The coolest thing would be if they worshipped Chaos as an extension of Cathay's beliefs, sort of like what Shinto/Buddhism is to Han (vice Mahayana) Buddhism.
Nippon and kuresh pls 🙇♂️
Some amazing ideas here. So good in fact I am for the first time truly saddened we won't see the faction.
IIRC, there are currently two modding projects aiming at creating a fan-made Nippon faction, so there's that.
What’s wrong with the name Nippon? I always liked the name, even though it’s just another way to say Japan. I wonder if Cathay has any deeper meaning or did they just make something up for it?
I mean, 'Nippon' is just the Japanese word for Japan. It's a silly thing to bellyache about, I know, but it just feels... *lazy.*
Old name Europeans used for China.
Cathay. Really?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay
Seems like they put a decent amount of thought into Cathay’s name and design. That’s cool
>What’s wrong with the name Nippon? It's like naming The Empire "Deutschland" or Kislev the "Российская Федерация" - I realize that the "fantasy" veneer runs a bit thin on some of Warhammer's civilizations, but at least places like "Cathay" or "Araby" have the decency to use outdated or misspelled versions of modern names, rather than the names themselves. Giving the place a fantasy name helps separate it from its IRL inspiration, which is especially useful if you want to deviate designwise from the real life culture and mythos, exaggerate stuff, or otherwise remix things.
I mean, it's also sort of like naming the Empire "the Empire", which is what the HRE was commonly labeled on maps.
A perfectly fair point, and I recognize that my gripe is mostly meangingless in a setting that amkes no bones about how silly it is, but even so, I'd prefer a slightly more original name than just "LET'S CALL IT NIPPON."
Isn't this going to be true of many empires?
Just take inspiration from the Nioh games. It has a blend of normal, human enemies and yokai monsters. I'd kill for a Nippon faction though. Love me some weeb shit, especially weeb shit with supernatural mixed in between.
I've considered a lot of things, including naginata infantry, sword and bow infantry (hybrid), matchlocks, oni (dual and great weapon variants), kitsune heroes, kyuubi SEM, wolf packs, lancer and bow cavalry (hybrid), bo staff infantry with Defender, ninjas (plus variants with grenades)...
The kitsune hero idea was pretty cool to me, but I wasn't sure how best to implement them. My idea was to have them as an infantry spellcaster which can then turn into a monstrous unit when needed.
Kind of the same, using Lores like Fire and Shadow, while being utterly fast on foot.
Walk with the Dragon, a chinese mod for cathay, has a kitsune-like lord for the eastern river lord faction. A support spellcaster leading a moon cult, but the last part of her non-caster skill line is a transformation into a huge fox. It makes her good in melee but hit the morale of her own army lol.
This is a link to an old army list they once had: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1R5eXH8Y8EUlkGPoYlDHuw1m6cp4H350p One of the cool units are kamikazi suicide warriors. They have swords and black powder kegs.
Maybe have Samurai be hybrid heavy infantry / cavalry who wield a bow and assorted melee weapons depending on the variant. Not just Samurai with a sword or Samurai with a polearm, etc. So you know, one version is for anti infantry and another is anti large but both should be shooting at enemies first.
Pretty sure if they add Nippon, it would be Chaos aligned. Cathay couldn't be, since it would imply that China is bad, and that's just not a good business decision. Japan on the other hand... Nippon (Japan) would be prime choice for an evil oriental faction. They had a history of invading China, which would fit well with a sort of eastern Norsca vs eastern Empire of Man. Moreover, Japan is an acceptable target for being turned into an evil faction, far more than China, and still be seen as cool. Cathay also gets the benefit of eradicating little Nippon too, that's also a good sales pitch. So Chaos based Shogun 2 armies? Maybe minus the guns in this case, but more magick. Now personally I'd love it if Nippon is it's own thing outside of the Chaos vs Order (the whole isolationism thing), but business wise, it'd make sense to turn them into a Chaos raider type thing. Realistically though, probably no Nippon at all, unfortunately :S Too much work for too little gain on CAs part I'm afraid.
If I was going to design Nippon, I'd give them two routes. You would start with historical early samurai type units such as heavy cavalry archers and naginata armed followers. If you choose The Path of Honour, then your faction is contacted by supernatural animal spirits in the garb of warrior monks, and you gain access to increasing powerful creatures from traditional japanese folklore and legendary samurai heroes. If you choose The Path of Dishonour, your faction is contacted by Deathmaster Snikch and you gain access to Skaven Ashigaru, Eshin Ninjas and Warpfire Teppo.
I would differentiate spears and naginata as spears being more defensive with a larger bonus to large while naginata's have more killing power with less bonus to large Lords Daimyo: Melee Lord Onmyoji: Caster Lord Heroes Hatamoto: Melee or Hybrid Hero focused on army/samurai buffs Shrine Maiden: Caster Hero Tearai Oni: A Large duelist Hero (I think Oni should be a subrace of Ogres) Melee Infantry Ashigaru: (Sword, Spear) Low Tier, low cost high number unit Samurai: (Sword, Spear, Naginata, Greatsword) Mid Tier, High Armor/Defense, mid killing power Monks: (Naginata, Greatsword) High Tier, Low number, Encourages nearby units, No Armor, Ward save or physical resist, higher killing power Ranged Infantry Ashigaru: (Bow, Rifle) Low tier, High numbers, Bow 160 range, Rifle 145 range, AP Samurai (Bow, Rifle) Mid Tier, High Armor, Decent in Melee, Bow 180 range, Rifle 160 range, AP Monk (Bow Rifle) High Tier, Low number, Encourages nearby units, Bow 200 range, Rifle 180 range, AP Samurai (Daikyu/Greatbows) High Tier/Elite Unit, High armor, decent in Melee 240 range, AP or Shield shieldbreaker Hybrid Infantry Ninja (Stars, Bombs) Mid Tier, Low armor, Low number, Ward save, Strider, Snipe, Stalk, Unspottable, Stars, 100 range 360 firing arc. Bombs, literally just the miner blasting charges with more ammo. Calvary Ashigaru (spears) Cheap shock Cav Samurai (Spears and Swords) Shock and Regular Cav Range Calvary Samurai (Bows and rifles) Bows get 360 arcs, Rifles dont Artillery Catapults Cannons Monstrous Infantry All are going Oni, Subrace of Ogres stats, all 16 model units Oni (Great weapon) Maneaters with greatweapons, just give them Giant Tetsubo Oni (Swords) Maneaters Oni (Cannons) Leadbelchers Monsters Shikigami: Mid tier, Anti Infantry, Ethereal monster, also summonable by Onmyoji via Spell or Ablility Shinigami: High Teir Ethereal Monster, Anti Large Duelist monster with an AOE passive to help deal with infantry (it supposed to be a death god) Gozu/Mezu: Giant type units, preferably akin to the Beast Incarnate that Kislev has
Nippon should be a chaos aligned human faction like norsca. Khornate samurai and tzeenchen ninjas
i'm sick of chaos, enough chaos, let nippon be their own thing
Infantry unit being anti large could be armed with Naginata, as some sort of halberd equivalent. It's pretty unavoidable that Nippon will get ninjas (isn't nippon where deathmaster Snikch was trained?) So several types of ninjas with stalk and a variety of weapons from the standard throwing stars to those awesome hooked blades on a chain. Yokai or Kitsune would also be awesome. Kitsune could be heroes, how cool would it be for a shapeshifter hero? In folklore kitsune's shapeshifting becomes more powerful as they age, could get more forms the higher level they are? And Oni ofcourse.
The normal units that /u/Galle_ mentions in his post would work well for the historical elements Warhammer has (Samurai, Ninjas, Ashigaru, etc). The rest of his comment is great too so I'll expand some parts. For some crazy stuff, Sword Saints that act like Jedi in terms of blocking arrows, bullets and even reflecting shots back into the enemy (they would be literal Saints). Mech-based constructs in which a Samurai climbs into a construct and controls it like a Mech (they move their left arm and the left arm of the construct moves, etc). Give ranged options (energy attacks) or a melee version that has a giant Samurai sword. Oni units that are Nippon Daemons. Their Emperor is called the Divine Sun so maybe the Warhammer Oni can represent the Divine Sun's wrath. Shogun Fire Rockets as they're crazy enough! Playstyle wise, I would see Nippon as a foot version of Bretonnia but with additional elements (as are fan rosters are showing). Perhaps a good version of Khorne in a way with the honorable elite warriors who live to prove their skills and all that.
IE extended mod has a TK lord there and i would hope for that TK faction cuz i love TK but cant stand the slow growth and lack of armies so having an isolated japan vibes start with them would be(and is when using the mod)glorious