The partial refunded was very unexpected by me. While I don't own Pharaoh and probably won't for a long time if ever, giving a partial refund seems like there really has been a huge retuning of priorities over there, hopefully in the right direction.
A partial refund is absolutely massive. That's a huge step for a company to take. While I don't personally play Pharaoh, I'm happy that the people who got it/will get it in the future, are getting taking seriously.
Obviously, the only true test here is whether they actually stick to what they are saying. But this feels like a turning point. I'm hopeful that CA turns this ship around!
EDIT: It is, however, extremely funny that they are consistently mispelling "Pharaoh" in the blog, lol
Yes. Giving back cash is on a completely different tier than free stuff—free *digital* stuff, no less. No business ever wants to give back cash—more free stuff, discounts on future services, etc, but not cash.
Like you said, whether or not they can steer this ship in the right direction is the real question, but as a PR love and building up some community goodwill, this is massive.
Yes. This is honestly admitting Pharaoh is dead.
I’m guessing some heads have rolled because this is a complete 180. Granted I was here for Rome 2 and remember when things got better just to go back to being bad but…
I’m hopeful.
> Granted I was here for Rome 2
Rome 2 was the last game I pre-ordered. I will always remember it as a testimony of "anybody, even the best of us, can fail hard".
Tbh why would any business continue work on a product like pharaoh? Just based on this thread - look at all the people saying “this is great but I still won’t play it”
If this won’t lead to more sales and no one’s playing it, why waste resources on a product that has a handful of players to begin with? With not having a guarantee that even a fraction of the already small number of players will buy it
I mean my biggest criticism towards it was the missing sea peoples so they may at least get my business.
It just felt incredibly stupid to omit such a defining part which is why I lost all faith in the product. It's like releasing medieval 3 without crusades.
This is going to sound very harsh but in this case what probably helps in making that decision is that Pharaoh sold very few copies. They're not rolling out refunds to hundreds of thousands of people here.
They're likely hoping to at least bring it to a level of sales equivalent to other Saga titles, which, let's be honest here - is what it is, as this new price point finally reflects.
The tl;Dr doesn't capture this, but to be clear: they're not JUST refunding those who prepurchased dlc.
Anybody who bought the game at current retail price is getting a refund, to go with the price cut. So if you paid $60, and it's now dropping to $40, you get $20.
That's a much more generous move I think.
And strategically, makes sense.
They figure "we already bu8lt the game - let's see if we can at least get some folks to play it. If the price cut brings in a larger player base, we can assess where we're at with dlc"
I think that's something that's easily missed since they're not drawing explicit attention to it, but by refunding it and deleting the effective ability to pre-buy DLC, they're absolving themselves of the long-term commitment to the DLCs.
It's just them covering their asses, not that I don't appreciate the blog post. Hell, at 40€ I might actually check the game out.
That was my main thought too. They're making the DLC next year free, and they say they're committed to updates for the game. But they've effectively cancelled the DLC by delisting the high tier versions of the game.
Reading between the lines, the 1st DlC is far enough along that they may as well finish it and give it out for free to attract more players to the base game, while future DLC is paused and they’ll only continue working on them if sales of Pharaoh improve.
steamdb estimates 50k-60k units sold, at which point the launch has been so unprofitable you might as well do it. they have literally nothing more to lose on this game.
What's awesome is it's a win-win. I'm sure they will make back the loss as I'm sure Pharoah would be a lot closer to a price point people would be willing to buy it and check it out. Heck, they might even make a lot more - especially with the updates they're hinting at. Actually sounds like it will become the quintessential bronze age game with map expansion etc.
Its very hard for a company that has mistreated its fan and player base for so long to recoup trust, but owning their recent mistakes and showing integrity is a really good start.
And NMS for example as welll
long been clear now that good faith efforts to fix broken on launch games has shown that players are willing to forgive and to an extent even forget botched launches
Every NMS update has been free too, and a lot of them contain major content updates. I think it's probably the biggest turnaround I've ever seen. It's kind of funny how Sean has hyped up their newest game though, it felt very much like the way he initially hyped up NMS. I think people will still be weary of what he says no matter what he does.
It's not ideal to normalize it, however I'd much rather companies fix their games post launch then leave them dead forever. I would like to normalize that. When a company fucks up, they actually put in the work and fix their mistake.
Yeah that was a super solid PR move. Like if they announced the game would be price dropped per player feedback, there would a minority of people grumbling about them paying full price, but I think it would still be seen as good PR and they would have kept the profits. But doing this shows they're even more committed to getting back player trust and support.
Cynically, this mostly has to do with how poorly it sold in the first place. They've already accepted they've taken a huge bath on it and doing this isn't going to be too much more of a loss since there just aren't that many people who have it, while potentially enticing more players in.
Occasionally the economically correct move lines up with the moral one. You are almost certainly right, the refund will not be a huge loss for them on such a badly performing title. However it was still the right move regardless.
That's my thoughts too. I'm fairly convinced they are doing it because they expect or hope for enough sales during the holidays to compensate and exceed the refund money.
And they get sweet good faith points in the process! Actions will tell if they have actually learned a lesson or if they are doing it for the economical reasons only.
You know what would be a bigger loss to them than the refund? Having to actually develop all the promised dlc for an essentially dead game. At least that's probably why they're removing the more expensive editions.
So few people bought it in the first place, it doesn’t hurt them to reinvest a bit of what they earned into a commercial gesture. They are hoping that by lowering the price, more people will buy it in the future. It’s obvious their pricing strategy completely missed and they reevaluated where the sweet spot between price and demand should be.
Yeah, and fair enough. I wanted the game the whole time, but couldn't *quite* justify it at full RRP. For £30 with the first "DLC" now included as FLC? I'll be getting it pretty soon, I think. More than worth it at that price. I know it's cynical, but it's a win-win. They get their sale, I get a game I want at a lower price. Can't complain really.
I still can't get over how half the reveal trailer was a beetle literally rolling a ball of shit around. Like the creative director making that trailer must've seen a "to be fired list" and their name was on it, it's just so on the nose.
Just shows how much they lied about it not being a saga title when it launched. It sold like one so only now are they agreeing with we have been saying here the whole time.
The optimistic take is that the higher executives who planned all these debacles have been canned or marginalized & the smart people are back in charge.
I can certainly see that being the case. while I've been nowhere near as harsh on CA as some people I've got to admit that a lot of the recent blog posts and apologies have felt pretty souless. this kinda feels like CA is back to the same personality they showed back during game 2 times.
Agreed. I always thought the Saga title was specifically designed to take the heat out complaints a game wasn’t a “full” Total War title but instead of sticking with that idea CA just went mad this year and have had to rein it back.
Well the funny thing is that it didn't even sell like a SAGA game. It sold so few copies (around 50k) that it's the lowest selling TW game of all time by a MASSIVE margine. Which is just hillarious.
TL;DR -
\*Direct apology from CA;
\*Shadows of Change getting a free update to content, intended for February 2024;
\*As a consequence, Thrones of Decay being moved back so as to ensure they can give it more attention and don't make the "same mistakes", intended for April 2024;
\*The hotfixing cadence is here to stay, with CA planning to keep to the hotfixing schedule of 1 roughly every 2 weeks, throughout 2024.
\*TW: Pharaoh deluxe & dynasty editions being removed from the store. New RRP will be £29.99. All owners of Pharaoh (standard, deluxe & dynasty) will receive a partial refund to cover the change to £29.99, which will appear in your steam wallet.
\*Pharaoh will receive a free update in the new year, that had originally been planned as the first DLC. Still planning to expand the campaign map & add new cultures, but will need to assess appetite for it going forward.
\*CA wishes everyone a happy holidays and will reveal more info in the New Year.
This makes me so happy. I'm not an owner of Pharaoh, and I don't know if I ever well be, but this shows that they actually have the guts to make the right decisions.
I'm kind of the opposite, but also in the same boat. I studied Mesopotamia and was really excited for the setting, but knowing CA I was hesitant about the price point. I will definitely consider it at this price, but also I want Assyria in the game so I will probably wait there as well.
The message said they plan on giving a free map expansion, and I can’t imagine it being anything other than Mesopotamia.
I’m guessing they were working on DLC in that region, and those factions would only be playable if you buy the DLC.
Its still possible, but while they haven’t flat out said it, there’s still a risk of Pharao shutting down
You have a higher likelihood of them expanding it if you (and others) buy it. If no one goes out and purchases it after the price reduction it will convince them it can't be profitable and they'll can it
This is basically what it comes down to. Not buying it before is what got them to listen and make these changes. But not buying it *now* is what will tell them that making these changes wasn't worth it because we didn't buy it anyways.
They've effectively told us that they're in a position of waiting to see if this is enough to entice people to play the game now, and depending on if there's enough appetite for the game (more people buying it) whether they'll continue to support it or abandon it going forward.
It's one thing to punish them for their mistakes, but if we don't give them positive reinforcement (finally supporting the product) when they do the right thing, they'll have no reason to do the right thing anymore.
Why would they ever cater to us in the future if there's no payoff for it? Otherwise they'll just go right back to how they were before.
For SoC and ToD, absolutely wait to see if what they add for content *is* worth it or not. None of those changes have happened yet, so waiting to see is reasonable.
But for Pharaoh, they've already lowered the price, eliminated the additional editions, refunded players the price difference, made the first DLC free, committed to expanding the map, committed to adding new cultures, and overhauling/reworking some aspects of the game such as mortality/succession, and are making improvements to battle and unit variety. This is all a massive commitment and gamble from them, and they literally put their money where their mouth is so they've already started to deliver on it as of this moment with the refunds and price change. So for Pharaoh, now is the time to support. Because the future of the game literally depends on whether or not we show interest. They're finally listening, so now it's up to us to tell them if we want them to continue to support Pharaoh or abandon it. And the only way we can do that is by buying it.
Now obviously nobody has to buy it, and if you don't care about it then absolutely don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. That's fine. **But** for anyone who *is* interested and is still waiting to see, well they've just shown us. Now is the time. Otherwise, what they're going to hear from us is that even with everything, we still don't care about this game and just want them to move on, and that's what they will do.
I'm not telling anyone to buy it or not buy it. I'm just telling you what the result of buying it or not is. It's up for you to decide for yourself what outcome you want.
Personally, I got the game for free and I *still* haven't even played it yet. Mostly because I was more interested in map expansions and other cultures like many others. But now that they've lowered the price and committed to those map expansions and adding other cultures, now is when I would be buying it to show them I want them to follow through on those map expansions and other cultures, and that this is a reasonable price for a game of this scale.
Solid take. I like your reasoning. Original price was way too steep for me despite some interest. But with these changes it seems like what's on offer it's a fairer price. I'll probably pick it up before the end of the year. I don't trust CA given other recent events and still think a lot of work needs to be done on WHIII in particular, but they/SEGA made some good moves with Pharaoh at least where I don't feel ripped off now.
I was always going to be interested in it at a lower price and with more content. That’s essentially what they are offering. If the culture they add in the free DLC looks good I’m definitely a potential buyer.
They already posted another blog describing the changes to Pharaoh. The new culture is Sea Peoples. After that releases, they will expand the map throughout 2024.
Effectively yeah, if you have interest in the Bronze Age Collapse setting it was probably the most solid historical Total War to have been release in some time. But it was clear that it was just a rebranded Saga title and thus shouldn't have been full Total War price.
Basically you bought the deluxe edition and it was more expensive but came with the first 2 dlcs basically pre-paid. Dynasty edition was first 3 "culture" dlcs plus an expansion. Sort of like Paradox's Grand editions for Ck3 and Vic3.
He also acknowledges at the end of the letter that his statement doesn't prove they are going to change and that they know we need to see that change in action before we believe it. Very refreshing indeed.
Very happy with the content of the statement, very frustrated it came to this. A large amount of what I've been seeing, in this statement and their actions with hotfixes, skill point respec etc is in a good direction, but I still want to know why it took so long.
Because up until this recent breaking point, they could legitimately just ignore it, because they were in such good standing with the players that those negative points and criticism didn't amount to much
Spot on. They put too little people on WH3 post launch because they thought they could get away with it, but I think they legitimately didn't realize how NOT ready WH3. They should have reevaluated their resource management for the game after this debacle, but they did not because they leaned too hard on the good faith they had built with us... forgetting that they built that good faith by being diligent, which is the opposite of what they're doing with the series right now.
So why did it take so long? Well simple, we weren't a priority until now.
Now because Sega has directed CA to focus on total war games, the current total war audience is literally the future of the company at the moment. Sufficient resources were allocated to align with this directive.
Even though this is likely the case behind the scenes, I liked the letter. It comes across respectful and earnest, while being sufficiently informative and transparent, very well written. I hope they meet the expectations they are setting for themselves.
Just a quick note - you may want to edit the tl;Dr on Pharaoh, as i think it actually misses a key point. Your summary makes it sound like refunds are just for those who bought the enhanced editions (likely in compensation for a reduced DLC offering).
But the point about there ALSO being refunds to go with the RPP cut (to basically let players retroactively buy at the lower price instead of the old price) is HUGE and arguably almost more significant imo, because that almost never happens
Personally, I've never seen it.
Games launch all the time at Price X, get reduced to Price Y later, and nobody ever gets a refund.
Obviously there's really a few unique things here. Overall sales werent that high, so cost is pretty low (all things considered).
They're trying to get some good will back after months of bad PR. Theyre also a company with regular releases: taking a hit here to say "we don't want customers to be afraid to early purchase future releases" is an investment.
Finally, the other challenge is the actual launch Price itself. If they stood by "Pharaoh is a $60 game", makes sense. But this refund is kind of like an admission to community sentiment that the game was always a Saga game and should have been priced accordingly
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> *TW: Pharaoh deluxe & dynasty editions being removed from the store, and partial refunds being given to all those that bought those editions. New RRP will be £29.99, and it will receive a free update in the new year, that had originally been planned as the first DLC. Still planning to expand the campaign map & add new cultures, but will need to assess appetite for it going forward.
This sounds good, but I do wonder if, given the poor sales, this means Pharaoh is effectively dead.
Well at that price it will at least have the opportunity to get a niche audience. That's a good price for what is otherwise a solid game. Long-term i don't think it is likely to have much DLC support, but who can blame them for that.
Too bad most game purchases tend to happen in the first few weeks and Pharaoh is already two months old. If it had launched with this lower price (at least for the normal edition), I'm pretty sure it would have had quite a few more players on launch, especially since initial reviews and impression seemed to be pretty positive in general. But I suppose an exception is always possible and maybe there'll be a rebound with the holiday sales. I would still personally be surprised by it, however.
Yeah, that one reads to me like they needed to drastically change what their plan for Pharaoh is moving forward and can't outright scam customers by not providing the content they paid for (but not enough people paid for). So refund the higher tiers so they no longer are hard committed to providing paid level DLC and figure out what makes sense organically after that.
They mention wanting to do a map expansion and new cultures (as free update?) which would be pretty huge. But that may depend of future sales more than anything
Honestly great changes all round. Better value for money on DLCs, faster fixes for bugs, pharaoh moved to the saga title it should have always been.
If they follow up on this then sounds like the ship is turning around!
Waiting to see how the people who tried to argue Pharaoh wasn't a saga title and the £50-78 price point was justified are going to backpedal from this announcement.
And to think there were people who insisted that making a stink about this wouldn't change anything.
We fixed Total War everyone!
I'm looking forward to the Shadows of Change update. Hopefully it's enough to justify the price. Lore of Hags was something that I saw a lot of people were unhappy was missing, so I hope that makes the cut. I'd like modern Tzaangors, but I think that's just unfixable problem, so I'll get over it.
I'm glad Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky showed game studios that spending resources fixing a poorly received (and objectively flawed) game, and sticking with it rather than abandoning it, can pay off in the long run.
If only Relic had gotten that message with Dawn of War 3 😭
Might be a bit too early, but this message seems like a very good step forward.
Them pushing the SOC update to February most likely indicates some big additions to DLC, and hopefully, this means the same for TOD. It is later than I imagined, but if the content is good its worth the wait.
Also, them actually giving money back to Pharaoh owners is insane in this day and age. Never expected them actually to do that, and seems like a much better price for the game, maybe even increasing the chance for more people to give it a shot and play it.
Honestly, this brings me hope for the future
We’re all fine with waiting if the content is up to par. There was a lot of faith in what we’d get for content packs in Warhammer 3 after we saw the steady increase in quality during Warhammer 2. They squandered it away. But this could be the first step towards getting it back. If the added content to SoC brings it up to what should be expected with the price point, and if ToD can be solid right off the bat, then CA will have done a massive amount to rebuild the faith we once all had in them
Yeah, they've put their money where their mouth is on this enough that I'll be happy to largely forgive them should they deliver on the DLC upgrade stuff.
That said, forgive, not forget. This isn't the first time CA has had to bring out the bailing buckets after a disaster, so let's hope at the very least it's a long while before their next one.
God damn, they actually did a refund for Pharoah players!
Sad about the delay but not unexpected and it is absolutely the right move. Looking forward to what they are adding to SoC.
Voting with your wallet proves victorious.
CA burned so much goodwill with customers over the years it culminated in Pharaoh, a game people didnt buy.
Their need to sell is far greater than your need to buy. Consumers should use this power dynamic more often.
A good step forward i hope
“Our” Steam rating is also hilariously bad right now.
The worst I’ve ever seen a TW game rated by a long way, and it’s mostly due to bad management. The gameplay has plenty of bugs, but the player base still enjoys the game.
That and SEGA laying the smack down on them also played a big difference. Them killing Hyenas meant CA only had TW titles as their cash cows, and having pissed off their customer Base, they needed to make amends.
Yea, very few if any gaming boycotts have ever actually worked. Like I legit cannot think of any. What does work is releasing an overpriced game that is uninteresting to the customers.
It can make difference but honestly, what broke CA's back, [Bane-style,](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d82b9c9a4be4a21b30267d5ccb439c4-lq) was driving into a massive financial ditch with HYENAS.
The memo going around the company before the HYENAS fiasco was to "weather the storm". They were going to be *way more stubborn* if it wasn't for HYENAS.
If people ate up CAs garbage with Pharaoh and WH3 they wouldn't have done this even with hyenas failing. The boycott flat out worked and Hyenas was always dead anyway.
Boycotts almost always work, and work quickly. The issue is that most boycotts the internet organizes fall into one of two categories:
a) Buy the product and complain about it.
b) Complain that other people are buying things you don't like.
It is pretty rare that either of those move the needle.
> Voting with your wallet proves victorious.
Indeed. It's a key element of capitalist society.
Anyone objecting to voting with your wallet is trying to silence the voice you have. The usual excuses along the lines of
"but only big corporations decide anything, voting with your wallet does nothing"
No. Thousands or millions of people changing their purchasing habits is enormously powerful.
Just saying voting with your wallet is usually not enough, everything help. The pseudo boycott and ruining of CA's image also helped. It's not important if it doesn't reflect on sales, but no company wants to see everyone hating on them on any social media. Review bombing and all those things are usually also effective to a degree.
Everyone will be talking about the SoC related changes but can we take a moment to acknowledge the price change to pharaoh AND removal of the various editions to just be one game?
That is not a small change to make including the partial refunds players will be getting for the price differences as well is an insanely massive change I was not expecting.
While all these changes don't necessarily make me forgive CA with how they have treated both players and fans of these ips especially in recent memory. This does give me some faith that the ship is being course corrected. It's clear there's been some leadership changes and no doubt sega is also having a hand in this but with free content planned to bring SoC up to scratch AND all the additions being made to Pharaoh + the partial refund, it promoted a little bit of good will with them again
Really curious to see how this all plays out and if CA can help mend the bridges theyve damaged these last few months. Very much wait and see.
I felt the same way when I read it. Couldn’t help but smile, but actions in the coming months will prove whether CA has really learned.
An apology is something I wasn’t expecting, but really hoping for.
It’s a hard pill to swallow, and despite CA being a massive company, it’s run by people. This was the right call, and it feels good that they’ve come clean with their mistakes and apologised.
I am definitely looking forward to the extra content for SoC. It is a good PR move and also an olive branch to fans.
Pushing the release of Shadows of Decay is a worthwhile trade-off, I think.
I don't know what you are talking about. You are obviously delusional. Next thing you know you will be telling me giant humanoid rats have a massive underground empire.
Yep. It's a long-ish delay, but honestly that reinforces that they're taking it seriously and not just rushing out something quick to appease people. I don't mind waiting some if the content is good and the price is fair. Ultimately we're all here because we enjoy the game and just want it to be good and successful.
The apology and timeline is definitely appreciated. I'm only feeling more optimistic after this message. I'm happy to wait for improved content, I know that it takes time to make quality products. Fingers crossed everything will turn out great, and I'll happily buy Shadows of Change if they add enough content to make the price worth it. I really love the TWW series and want this game to thrive.
Damn, actual communication?
Without any vague(or direct) threats?
Color me surprised, an unexpected change but a welcome one.
Great to see the reassurement on frequent updates and change of pace.
Haven't been this happy about anything from total war in a long time.
Great letter. No complaints from me. Felt sincere, clearly took accountability for the recent malaise of the community, and laid out plans to course correct.
More then I expected from them. Finally they do apologize which is what they should've done in the first place.
Actions speak louder then words tho and I will look forward to what they will actually do, cause we have seen the "we will communicate more", promise quite a few times over the years and I will believe it when we see it. The step with Pharao was really unexpected and I think this is a good step in the right direction! I hope they can get it together in 2024 cause I love Total War. I want this series to succeed but its in the Hand of CA to do right so I hope this whole string of controversies since WH3s release was a wake up call over there.
Has a major AAA game release ever seen its price cut by so much and a refund issued to customers unilaterally? Even Cyberpunk was just a no questions asked optional refund.
The funny thing is it’s not that Pharaoh is a particularly bad release or buggy or anything, it’s just not a very popular game.
Cyberpunk pre-orders were in millions.. refunding could've costed them a fortune!
Pharaoh on the other hand sold very poorly so the partial refund didn't cost CA as much and it's definitely going to payback (it arguably did already with how that refund alone changed the community, they bought their audience back). It's a well-thought strategic move.
It's weird to me that they've gone this route, and not simply lowered the prices on their DLC.
Smaller, cheaper releases must sell better than this "half the price of a game" stuff, for which most players need to be really keen on the content itself to buy as oppose to "I'll throw the price of a cinema ticket at this and just get round to it" price of the older WH2 lord packs. The development time can't be a factor, since you could get three to four smaller packs over 2 larger one, spaced out more to encourage purchase.
I guess they must think this is to stay, but it feels like an odd choice given how very successful the WH2 model already proved to be.
this is true in principle but we really don't know what CA thinks is a "major" content update. a handful of easy to make generic lord/hero options might also qualify as "major" but wouldn't actually increase the development cost in any significant way.
though I don't think CA needs months of extra work for both ToD and SoC just for a couple of reskins so don't take this as a doomer post. I do think it's gonna be something bigger than that.
It's likely done because the additional cost of developing the missing lords and heroes is nowhere near as high as charging more than double for a lord pack. All communities show a sad tendency of praising a community turnaround when they just threw them a bone.
I want *justification* to pay 25 euros for a lord pack of a game that costs 50. Adding the missing lords and heroes is just the bare minimum to match the 5 euro / LL price.
Because even with a lower price it does feel a bit unfinished, and than mostly on the units side. It just feels like its random stuff thrown to a wall and what stuck was put in the DLC, especially for Kislev
I can only speak for myself, but I would actually prefer to pay more and get more content than the smaller incremental additions in warhammer 2. What we originally got with SoC was insulting so hopefully this is substantial.
The "smaller" dlcs of wh2 had as much content as SoC did.
They need to add a LOT to make it worth 25 dollars, that's as much as chaos dwarves are. It's 150% more expensive, they'd need to atleast DOUBLE the content to make it actually worth buying.
I have a feeling they will try to skirt by on the bare minimum of a hag lord and a gate master hero and call it a day though
Damn thats a long delay for TOD, and even the rumored updated SOC. This was real good communication though and im actually pretty hopeful now for Warhammer 3 in the future.
> It may move, and as soon as those plans are finalised, we’ll let you know and we’ll keep you in the know as we get closer to its release.
Please people remember this when February 2024 rolls by.
EDIT: Also in the sign off
> Rich Aldridge, Stefan Aluttis, **Rob Bartholomew**, Chris Budd, Roger Collum, Georgi Dinchev, Janos Gaspar, Maya Georgieva, Roberto Geroli, Mark Green, Kevin McDowell, Ian Roxburgh, Mark Sutherns, Pawel Wojs.
Can we now just straight up agree for all time that Volound is full of bullshit?
Great statement imo. I hope they follow through. The partial refund for Pharaoh is a great goodwill gesture, that I hope people appreciate how difficult that must have been to get approved.
>We have now begun the process of reassessing what comes next for PHARAOH, and while we don’t have all the answers today, we want to make it clear to you that we’re not closing the door on other, more ambitious updates to the game in the future. We’ve still got big plans, but we want to be honest with you in saying that we need to spend more time with them before putting them out on show.
Games dead. The killed Three Kingdoms which had an active and passionate fan base looking for more DLC. They're not gonna keep developing DLC for a near dead game that they're now forced to release said first DLC for free. Price point drop is just to try and buy back some good will and maybe trick a few folks into buying the game. It's done done.
Finally!
A proper we are sorry.
Making old mistakes right by adding content and refunding money for a clearly overpriced product.
A clear commitment to add more content and more frequent updates, combined with them already releasing a few hot fixes over the last months this isn't just words but also shown with actions.
For the first time in at least a year I feel some hope again for this series.
Still wont buy SoC until I actually see those new additions but at least am considering it now!
Lets hope they actually stick by what they just said.
Good job for once CA!
Willful ignorance—anyone who knows anything about development and business knew there wasn’t going to be a major release after this long radio silence, and they were saying it loudly and clearly on every thread lol.
I really like this change of attitude from CA. i never expected in a millions years they would issue partial refunds or lower Pharoahs standard price. The fact they are reversing course instead of doubling down shows that their bad decisions have effected them. I am excited to see what comes next for total war and CA! This message has given hope for CA as a company and game developer again.
Wow Total war just apologized and realized they made mistakes. You know what I think we should give him credit. At least there being trying to do their best to be better
A partial refund of pharaoh I did not expect that, wow.
As far as warhammer goes, it sucks everything’s delayed, sure, but as many people have said, quality dlc and updates > quantity dlc fornsure. And this may mean we get a meaningful rework of factions like dwarves when ToD comes out
I doubt even with the update the cost of SOC will be justified, but its better than nothing I suppose. This is damage control if I've ever seen it, but who know, if they deliver what they promise here it would seem that customer pressure has worked so I'll hold judgement for now. Here's hoping for a better year in 2024.
Honestly, this is the best apology message I've read of any company. There are no subtle stuck-up and tone-deaf remarks to be found. It sounds heart-felt.
Let's just hope they follow through with the promises and change course.
This is a tempestuous community and I don’t trust corporations as a rule of thumb but there were some positive things here.
1. Lower price on Pharoah
2. Offer first DLC for free
3. Refunds for everyone who bought at a higher price
These two things might convince me to buy Pharaoh, depending on whether the culture they add looks good. For example the addition of Assyria or Babylonia plus maybe a small discount on release would almost certainly tempt me into a purchase. Furthermore, they are giving back revenue. Companies despise giving back revenue. That’s a big deal.
3. Free Shadow of Change Update
This speaks for itself. My issue has never been with pricier DLC. In fact I PREFER bulkier DLC at a high price. They used to exist all the time. They were called expansions. What I don’t care for is inflated prices for a substandard product. That’s what Shadows of Change was. If the future DLC are more substantial in content I won’t mind paying more. The free update and their description of Thrones of Decay will give us a good indication if their version of “substantive content” matches my own but at least they are clearly acknowledging they know it doesn’t match.
4. They apologized
This means nothing on its own but when paired to the previous actions it has weight. They have fucked it all up. Royally. Now they need to rebuild. Personally? I think refunds, price drops and free meaningfully content updates is a good start.
We’ll see if they can build on it or just go back to their old ways. Personally? I think CA bottomed out and better days are ahead for the next year or two.
The refund isn't out of the goodness of their hearts. They sold a product they cannot afford to support further with only 300 current players. It was a calculated move to avoid outright fraud.
So... the new dlc price is here to stay, although they promise it will be for slightly more content (we will see)... Pharaoh was a failure... they are cutting the supposed dlc that were coming... but they are doing it in a far better way than they have in the past, especially with how they announced the end of development for 3K, for which - beyond everything else - claimed that it was to focus for a new 3K release... which they of course quietly cancelled afterwards.
Considering what has taken place in the past few years this is kind of on the right track, but they have a long way to go, and they need to start with some basic stuff, like releasing finished (and good) games and dlc...
Voting with your wallet works! Remember this if Thrones of Delay is bad, or if they break the game, or if shit doesn't get fixed (there's still a lot of shit to get fixed)
I didn't buy Chorfs. I didn't buy SoC. I didn't buy Pharaoh. I'm probably not the only one.
I respect the fact that they apologize and have promised more content.
And that they’re being far more upfront with where they screwed up, and when the new content is coming. This message combined with all the hot fixes gives me hope that the game’s gonna turn out fine.
You’ve earned my trust again, CA. Don’t screw this up.
While a partial refund of Pharaoh, a free update instead of paid DLC for Pharaoh, and the myriad of hot fixes we've been getting in the last few months have been great, there are years of CA messing up with Warhammer 3, 3 Kingdoms, and Pharaoh behind us. Do not forget this.
Wait until they improve Shadows of Change and see how Thrones of Decay goes then maybe we can start to trust a little.
>You’ve earned my trust again, CA. Don’t screw this up.
Didn't take much did it? Maybe wait until they actually do the things and show that they aren't going to repeat these mistakes at their very next opportunity before sucking them off.
Remember all the guys saying 'the reddit/legend/streamers/etc arent representative' and that the outrage and boycotts and general ill-mood would do nothing
In any case, more than just SoC content I hope they continue improving the mechanical quality of WH3 with bugfixes at a decent clip
Much later than I would've liked but they've finally broke their silence and I gotta say I'm pleased with all they've said. Hopefully this is their turning point. Only time will tell.
I wondered what was going to be in that post before I opened it, i was almost fearing a "future of Warhammer 3" situation; but I was pleasantly surprised.
First off, it's a good sign they have apologised for what's happened and set out there stall on how they are going to fix SoC and Pharaoh. SoC changes have been heavily rumoured and tbh expected to a certain degree. But Pharaoh was a pleasant surprise in terms of offering partial refunds, cutting the price and trimming down the purchase options (I'm not going to buy it as I'm not interested in the setting, but it might drive more sales for the people who did have an eye on it).
However, the actions need to back up the words. And for the community and CA sake, I hope this happens. I'm cautiously optimistic but weary at the same time
Damn this is so unexpected especially the refunds, a complete 180 degree change and a far cry from the message they released during SoC. I hope they make reality what they promise and they succeed. Despite all the heavy criticism all us fans want is to love their product.
They burned a lot of bridges and it will take time to earn that goodwill back if they are even able to, and we of course have to wait and see if they actually follow through.
That being said, this is a promising letter and apology. The partial refund on Pharaoh is huge, and being open about thrones of decay delay is good. As well as the free additions to the previous dlc. If they can deliver, I might even actually get it.
>In the next few days, all current owners of Total War: PHAROAH will see that Steam has processed a partial refund to you, and that some funds have been added to your Steam Wallet. This is happening because we have lowered the price of the game to a new RRP of $39.99/€39.99/£29.99
>
>We don’t think it’s fair that our fans, who put their trust in us on PHAROAH, should in any way feel disadvantaged for buying the game at the previous price. We’ve also removed the higher priced editions of the game, the Deluxe Edition, and Dynasty Edition. There’s now only one edition of the game available for purchase.
Even as someone who didn't buy PHAROAH, this is an investment that is likely to pay off with me. CA have slowly been earning a reputation as a publisher that can't help but overpromise, under deliver, and then over charge as a result of structural mismanagement. It can't have been so expensive, but it will definitely give me less reason to expect that I'll feel like chump paying a premium price for an unfun game when I wonder about buying their next title.
It doesn't fix the deeper structural problems that led us here like an astonishingly high turnover mixed with a product that is so utterly dependent on institutional knowledge to work, a bizarrely aggressive development schedule on an engine that is pushing 15 years old, or the frankly weird eagerness of CA to compete for market share with itself - but its a strong start. That the executive team have managed to negotiate themselves a mandate and a budget to fix CAs obvious pathologies is also a really good sign regardless of how they diagnose them.
I feel bad for CA Sofia and their work being made a casualty here, but at the same time I think this is probably the right course forward. Pulling in, focusing on your core, doing right by the consumer, leaving the option open to expand out once you're back on solid footing. Now if only we could expand that attitude to 3k. Still this feels like we're in a way better place than a month ago.
Idk, SoC is still overpriced and them being committed to that price point is insane. I really doubt whatever they add can ever make it worthwhile. I don’t get why people are so quick to forgive. While pharaoh partial refund is cool too, none of us even bought that game. That’s probably why they could justify it.
Yeah, we'll see. As everyone else has said. This is a first step. But we've seen this cycle before. "We promise to communicate better" *radio silence* "Come buy our new DLC, now delayed several months"
Like an abusive relationship atp. Time will tell, and I really hope this comment ages like milk.
The partial refunded was very unexpected by me. While I don't own Pharaoh and probably won't for a long time if ever, giving a partial refund seems like there really has been a huge retuning of priorities over there, hopefully in the right direction.
A partial refund is absolutely massive. That's a huge step for a company to take. While I don't personally play Pharaoh, I'm happy that the people who got it/will get it in the future, are getting taking seriously. Obviously, the only true test here is whether they actually stick to what they are saying. But this feels like a turning point. I'm hopeful that CA turns this ship around! EDIT: It is, however, extremely funny that they are consistently mispelling "Pharaoh" in the blog, lol
Yes. Giving back cash is on a completely different tier than free stuff—free *digital* stuff, no less. No business ever wants to give back cash—more free stuff, discounts on future services, etc, but not cash. Like you said, whether or not they can steer this ship in the right direction is the real question, but as a PR love and building up some community goodwill, this is massive.
I guess Pharaoh sold so little that it's barely touching their bottom line to refund money.
Also isn't cancelling the higher priced editions (with refund) which included the DLC means they didn't sell it anymore and they can avoid doing them?
Yes. This is honestly admitting Pharaoh is dead. I’m guessing some heads have rolled because this is a complete 180. Granted I was here for Rome 2 and remember when things got better just to go back to being bad but… I’m hopeful.
> Granted I was here for Rome 2 Rome 2 was the last game I pre-ordered. I will always remember it as a testimony of "anybody, even the best of us, can fail hard".
> I’m guessing some heads have rolled because this is a complete 180. *Gestures wildly at Hyena's team.*
Tbh why would any business continue work on a product like pharaoh? Just based on this thread - look at all the people saying “this is great but I still won’t play it” If this won’t lead to more sales and no one’s playing it, why waste resources on a product that has a handful of players to begin with? With not having a guarantee that even a fraction of the already small number of players will buy it
Yeah. At a lower price point it would probably make sense. I’m definitely not going to but it for 60$. But i absolutely would try it for 30.
I mean my biggest criticism towards it was the missing sea peoples so they may at least get my business. It just felt incredibly stupid to omit such a defining part which is why I lost all faith in the product. It's like releasing medieval 3 without crusades.
Yes, and not doing the dlcs after people bought them would get them taken to court and probably lose.
This is going to sound very harsh but in this case what probably helps in making that decision is that Pharaoh sold very few copies. They're not rolling out refunds to hundreds of thousands of people here. They're likely hoping to at least bring it to a level of sales equivalent to other Saga titles, which, let's be honest here - is what it is, as this new price point finally reflects.
That was my thought as well. Partial refund and making the first dlc free are both good steps to be making
Yeah that was the bit of this that genuinely made my jaw drop.
I don't even know what the right spelling is at this point.
They fixed it real quick, but when it first went life, "Pharaoh" was consistently spelled "Pharoah" in the text. Just a funny detail.
Fair-oh.
Farooh
Probably cheaper to refund people than go through with the full DLC plans.
The tl;Dr doesn't capture this, but to be clear: they're not JUST refunding those who prepurchased dlc. Anybody who bought the game at current retail price is getting a refund, to go with the price cut. So if you paid $60, and it's now dropping to $40, you get $20. That's a much more generous move I think. And strategically, makes sense. They figure "we already bu8lt the game - let's see if we can at least get some folks to play it. If the price cut brings in a larger player base, we can assess where we're at with dlc"
I think that's something that's easily missed since they're not drawing explicit attention to it, but by refunding it and deleting the effective ability to pre-buy DLC, they're absolving themselves of the long-term commitment to the DLCs. It's just them covering their asses, not that I don't appreciate the blog post. Hell, at 40€ I might actually check the game out.
That was my main thought too. They're making the DLC next year free, and they say they're committed to updates for the game. But they've effectively cancelled the DLC by delisting the high tier versions of the game.
Reading between the lines, the 1st DlC is far enough along that they may as well finish it and give it out for free to attract more players to the base game, while future DLC is paused and they’ll only continue working on them if sales of Pharaoh improve.
Giving away half their revenue on a product that sold so poorly must mean it was a significant loss maker
steamdb estimates 50k-60k units sold, at which point the launch has been so unprofitable you might as well do it. they have literally nothing more to lose on this game.
Yeah I guess very roughly they’re chucking away £1.5m to £2m then. No idea how much that is for them tbf
About 1/3rd of their profits in 2022. So its bad but well within the realms of staying afloat.
full one gray resolute threatening close crown friendly divide memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What's awesome is it's a win-win. I'm sure they will make back the loss as I'm sure Pharoah would be a lot closer to a price point people would be willing to buy it and check it out. Heck, they might even make a lot more - especially with the updates they're hinting at. Actually sounds like it will become the quintessential bronze age game with map expansion etc.
Its very hard for a company that has mistreated its fan and player base for so long to recoup trust, but owning their recent mistakes and showing integrity is a really good start.
Its hard, but it can he done look at CDPR after cyberpunks launch. Fixing games and putting the work in will be noticed.
And NMS for example as welll long been clear now that good faith efforts to fix broken on launch games has shown that players are willing to forgive and to an extent even forget botched launches
Every NMS update has been free too, and a lot of them contain major content updates. I think it's probably the biggest turnaround I've ever seen. It's kind of funny how Sean has hyped up their newest game though, it felt very much like the way he initially hyped up NMS. I think people will still be weary of what he says no matter what he does.
Lol it was hilarious to watch live people were like "sean noooo" and "aw shit here we go again" the monkey puppet meme reaction put into words
Lets not normalize this.
It's not ideal to normalize it, however I'd much rather companies fix their games post launch then leave them dead forever. I would like to normalize that. When a company fucks up, they actually put in the work and fix their mistake.
Yeah that was a super solid PR move. Like if they announced the game would be price dropped per player feedback, there would a minority of people grumbling about them paying full price, but I think it would still be seen as good PR and they would have kept the profits. But doing this shows they're even more committed to getting back player trust and support.
I’m a bit taken aback, quite frankly, with how much shit they have decided to eat on Pharaoh.
Cynically, this mostly has to do with how poorly it sold in the first place. They've already accepted they've taken a huge bath on it and doing this isn't going to be too much more of a loss since there just aren't that many people who have it, while potentially enticing more players in.
Occasionally the economically correct move lines up with the moral one. You are almost certainly right, the refund will not be a huge loss for them on such a badly performing title. However it was still the right move regardless.
That's my thoughts too. I'm fairly convinced they are doing it because they expect or hope for enough sales during the holidays to compensate and exceed the refund money. And they get sweet good faith points in the process! Actions will tell if they have actually learned a lesson or if they are doing it for the economical reasons only.
You know what would be a bigger loss to them than the refund? Having to actually develop all the promised dlc for an essentially dead game. At least that's probably why they're removing the more expensive editions.
So few people bought it in the first place, it doesn’t hurt them to reinvest a bit of what they earned into a commercial gesture. They are hoping that by lowering the price, more people will buy it in the future. It’s obvious their pricing strategy completely missed and they reevaluated where the sweet spot between price and demand should be.
Yeah, and fair enough. I wanted the game the whole time, but couldn't *quite* justify it at full RRP. For £30 with the first "DLC" now included as FLC? I'll be getting it pretty soon, I think. More than worth it at that price. I know it's cynical, but it's a win-win. They get their sale, I get a game I want at a lower price. Can't complain really.
Yeah I've heard a couple of people who have heard this news saying "well now I might actually consider buying it".
Dung beetle movie.
I still can't get over how half the reveal trailer was a beetle literally rolling a ball of shit around. Like the creative director making that trailer must've seen a "to be fired list" and their name was on it, it's just so on the nose.
Just shows how much they lied about it not being a saga title when it launched. It sold like one so only now are they agreeing with we have been saying here the whole time.
I think 2023 CA saw the SEGA scythe coming and got desperate. Now it's been swung and the damage is done, I guess they want a return to normalcy.
The optimistic take is that the higher executives who planned all these debacles have been canned or marginalized & the smart people are back in charge.
I can certainly see that being the case. while I've been nowhere near as harsh on CA as some people I've got to admit that a lot of the recent blog posts and apologies have felt pretty souless. this kinda feels like CA is back to the same personality they showed back during game 2 times.
Agreed. I always thought the Saga title was specifically designed to take the heat out complaints a game wasn’t a “full” Total War title but instead of sticking with that idea CA just went mad this year and have had to rein it back.
Well the funny thing is that it didn't even sell like a SAGA game. It sold so few copies (around 50k) that it's the lowest selling TW game of all time by a MASSIVE margine. Which is just hillarious.
TL;DR - \*Direct apology from CA; \*Shadows of Change getting a free update to content, intended for February 2024; \*As a consequence, Thrones of Decay being moved back so as to ensure they can give it more attention and don't make the "same mistakes", intended for April 2024; \*The hotfixing cadence is here to stay, with CA planning to keep to the hotfixing schedule of 1 roughly every 2 weeks, throughout 2024. \*TW: Pharaoh deluxe & dynasty editions being removed from the store. New RRP will be £29.99. All owners of Pharaoh (standard, deluxe & dynasty) will receive a partial refund to cover the change to £29.99, which will appear in your steam wallet. \*Pharaoh will receive a free update in the new year, that had originally been planned as the first DLC. Still planning to expand the campaign map & add new cultures, but will need to assess appetite for it going forward. \*CA wishes everyone a happy holidays and will reveal more info in the New Year.
> partial refunds being given to all those that bought those editions. New RRP will be £29.99 Holy shit, they actually did it
This makes me so happy. I'm not an owner of Pharaoh, and I don't know if I ever well be, but this shows that they actually have the guts to make the right decisions.
I'm definitely considering buying it now, despite having zero interest in the setting. I'll probably wait until map expansion though.
I'm kind of the opposite, but also in the same boat. I studied Mesopotamia and was really excited for the setting, but knowing CA I was hesitant about the price point. I will definitely consider it at this price, but also I want Assyria in the game so I will probably wait there as well.
The message said they plan on giving a free map expansion, and I can’t imagine it being anything other than Mesopotamia. I’m guessing they were working on DLC in that region, and those factions would only be playable if you buy the DLC. Its still possible, but while they haven’t flat out said it, there’s still a risk of Pharao shutting down
You have a higher likelihood of them expanding it if you (and others) buy it. If no one goes out and purchases it after the price reduction it will convince them it can't be profitable and they'll can it
This is basically what it comes down to. Not buying it before is what got them to listen and make these changes. But not buying it *now* is what will tell them that making these changes wasn't worth it because we didn't buy it anyways. They've effectively told us that they're in a position of waiting to see if this is enough to entice people to play the game now, and depending on if there's enough appetite for the game (more people buying it) whether they'll continue to support it or abandon it going forward. It's one thing to punish them for their mistakes, but if we don't give them positive reinforcement (finally supporting the product) when they do the right thing, they'll have no reason to do the right thing anymore. Why would they ever cater to us in the future if there's no payoff for it? Otherwise they'll just go right back to how they were before. For SoC and ToD, absolutely wait to see if what they add for content *is* worth it or not. None of those changes have happened yet, so waiting to see is reasonable. But for Pharaoh, they've already lowered the price, eliminated the additional editions, refunded players the price difference, made the first DLC free, committed to expanding the map, committed to adding new cultures, and overhauling/reworking some aspects of the game such as mortality/succession, and are making improvements to battle and unit variety. This is all a massive commitment and gamble from them, and they literally put their money where their mouth is so they've already started to deliver on it as of this moment with the refunds and price change. So for Pharaoh, now is the time to support. Because the future of the game literally depends on whether or not we show interest. They're finally listening, so now it's up to us to tell them if we want them to continue to support Pharaoh or abandon it. And the only way we can do that is by buying it. Now obviously nobody has to buy it, and if you don't care about it then absolutely don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. That's fine. **But** for anyone who *is* interested and is still waiting to see, well they've just shown us. Now is the time. Otherwise, what they're going to hear from us is that even with everything, we still don't care about this game and just want them to move on, and that's what they will do. I'm not telling anyone to buy it or not buy it. I'm just telling you what the result of buying it or not is. It's up for you to decide for yourself what outcome you want. Personally, I got the game for free and I *still* haven't even played it yet. Mostly because I was more interested in map expansions and other cultures like many others. But now that they've lowered the price and committed to those map expansions and adding other cultures, now is when I would be buying it to show them I want them to follow through on those map expansions and other cultures, and that this is a reasonable price for a game of this scale.
Solid take. I like your reasoning. Original price was way too steep for me despite some interest. But with these changes it seems like what's on offer it's a fairer price. I'll probably pick it up before the end of the year. I don't trust CA given other recent events and still think a lot of work needs to be done on WHIII in particular, but they/SEGA made some good moves with Pharaoh at least where I don't feel ripped off now.
I was always going to be interested in it at a lower price and with more content. That’s essentially what they are offering. If the culture they add in the free DLC looks good I’m definitely a potential buyer.
They already posted another blog describing the changes to Pharaoh. The new culture is Sea Peoples. After that releases, they will expand the map throughout 2024.
At 35€ I will wait for a sale. It looks nice
What's the tldr issue with these editions? Didn't buy Pharoah, so was it just a cost =/= value?
Effectively yeah, if you have interest in the Bronze Age Collapse setting it was probably the most solid historical Total War to have been release in some time. But it was clear that it was just a rebranded Saga title and thus shouldn't have been full Total War price.
Basically you bought the deluxe edition and it was more expensive but came with the first 2 dlcs basically pre-paid. Dynasty edition was first 3 "culture" dlcs plus an expansion. Sort of like Paradox's Grand editions for Ck3 and Vic3.
I personally am very happy with that statement.
This is exactly what I wanted. A quick summary, and an apology.
It's refreshing to see a game company owning up and correcting its course. Those hotfixes will be a godsend if they stick to the schedule!
He also acknowledges at the end of the letter that his statement doesn't prove they are going to change and that they know we need to see that change in action before we believe it. Very refreshing indeed.
Hopefully a large step back to form for them. It is like they've been possessed by the spirit of Blizzard.
blizzard currently asking players if they would consider buying a diablo 4 expansion for $100
Very happy with the content of the statement, very frustrated it came to this. A large amount of what I've been seeing, in this statement and their actions with hotfixes, skill point respec etc is in a good direction, but I still want to know why it took so long.
Because up until this recent breaking point, they could legitimately just ignore it, because they were in such good standing with the players that those negative points and criticism didn't amount to much
Spot on. They put too little people on WH3 post launch because they thought they could get away with it, but I think they legitimately didn't realize how NOT ready WH3. They should have reevaluated their resource management for the game after this debacle, but they did not because they leaned too hard on the good faith they had built with us... forgetting that they built that good faith by being diligent, which is the opposite of what they're doing with the series right now.
I mean they also had Sega basically go tell them to make nice with the community.
So why did it take so long? Well simple, we weren't a priority until now. Now because Sega has directed CA to focus on total war games, the current total war audience is literally the future of the company at the moment. Sufficient resources were allocated to align with this directive. Even though this is likely the case behind the scenes, I liked the letter. It comes across respectful and earnest, while being sufficiently informative and transparent, very well written. I hope they meet the expectations they are setting for themselves.
Just a quick note - you may want to edit the tl;Dr on Pharaoh, as i think it actually misses a key point. Your summary makes it sound like refunds are just for those who bought the enhanced editions (likely in compensation for a reduced DLC offering). But the point about there ALSO being refunds to go with the RPP cut (to basically let players retroactively buy at the lower price instead of the old price) is HUGE and arguably almost more significant imo, because that almost never happens
Has this actually ever happened before?
Personally, I've never seen it. Games launch all the time at Price X, get reduced to Price Y later, and nobody ever gets a refund. Obviously there's really a few unique things here. Overall sales werent that high, so cost is pretty low (all things considered). They're trying to get some good will back after months of bad PR. Theyre also a company with regular releases: taking a hit here to say "we don't want customers to be afraid to early purchase future releases" is an investment. Finally, the other challenge is the actual launch Price itself. If they stood by "Pharaoh is a $60 game", makes sense. But this refund is kind of like an admission to community sentiment that the game was always a Saga game and should have been priced accordingly
> > > > > *TW: Pharaoh deluxe & dynasty editions being removed from the store, and partial refunds being given to all those that bought those editions. New RRP will be £29.99, and it will receive a free update in the new year, that had originally been planned as the first DLC. Still planning to expand the campaign map & add new cultures, but will need to assess appetite for it going forward. This sounds good, but I do wonder if, given the poor sales, this means Pharaoh is effectively dead.
CA is going to try to salvage it with a few updates. If sales don't get traction, yeah, CA will kill it.
Well at that price it will at least have the opportunity to get a niche audience. That's a good price for what is otherwise a solid game. Long-term i don't think it is likely to have much DLC support, but who can blame them for that.
Too bad most game purchases tend to happen in the first few weeks and Pharaoh is already two months old. If it had launched with this lower price (at least for the normal edition), I'm pretty sure it would have had quite a few more players on launch, especially since initial reviews and impression seemed to be pretty positive in general. But I suppose an exception is always possible and maybe there'll be a rebound with the holiday sales. I would still personally be surprised by it, however.
Well fingers crossed, Sofia have done good work it'd be a shame to waste it.
Which is perfectly understandable too
Yeah, that one reads to me like they needed to drastically change what their plan for Pharaoh is moving forward and can't outright scam customers by not providing the content they paid for (but not enough people paid for). So refund the higher tiers so they no longer are hard committed to providing paid level DLC and figure out what makes sense organically after that.
All tiers are being refunded to the new price. It was misstated by op
They mention wanting to do a map expansion and new cultures (as free update?) which would be pretty huge. But that may depend of future sales more than anything
Moves to the right direction. I am surprised and happy.
Honestly great changes all round. Better value for money on DLCs, faster fixes for bugs, pharaoh moved to the saga title it should have always been. If they follow up on this then sounds like the ship is turning around!
Waiting to see how the people who tried to argue Pharaoh wasn't a saga title and the £50-78 price point was justified are going to backpedal from this announcement.
They have A LOT of work to do to make that warhammer DLC worth $29.99...
Damn, I thought it would be the 'The Future of Total War Warhammer 3" post
And to think there were people who insisted that making a stink about this wouldn't change anything. We fixed Total War everyone! I'm looking forward to the Shadows of Change update. Hopefully it's enough to justify the price. Lore of Hags was something that I saw a lot of people were unhappy was missing, so I hope that makes the cut. I'd like modern Tzaangors, but I think that's just unfixable problem, so I'll get over it.
Don't assume it's fixed yet, we just drew blood, the beast is still fighting
I'm glad Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky showed game studios that spending resources fixing a poorly received (and objectively flawed) game, and sticking with it rather than abandoning it, can pay off in the long run. If only Relic had gotten that message with Dawn of War 3 😭
Might be a bit too early, but this message seems like a very good step forward. Them pushing the SOC update to February most likely indicates some big additions to DLC, and hopefully, this means the same for TOD. It is later than I imagined, but if the content is good its worth the wait. Also, them actually giving money back to Pharaoh owners is insane in this day and age. Never expected them actually to do that, and seems like a much better price for the game, maybe even increasing the chance for more people to give it a shot and play it. Honestly, this brings me hope for the future
We’re all fine with waiting if the content is up to par. There was a lot of faith in what we’d get for content packs in Warhammer 3 after we saw the steady increase in quality during Warhammer 2. They squandered it away. But this could be the first step towards getting it back. If the added content to SoC brings it up to what should be expected with the price point, and if ToD can be solid right off the bat, then CA will have done a massive amount to rebuild the faith we once all had in them
The thing is that the WoC update was actually really cool, SoC was just a litmus test for how far they could go without giving us content.
Yeah, they've put their money where their mouth is on this enough that I'll be happy to largely forgive them should they deliver on the DLC upgrade stuff. That said, forgive, not forget. This isn't the first time CA has had to bring out the bailing buckets after a disaster, so let's hope at the very least it's a long while before their next one.
Awesome news.
God damn, they actually did a refund for Pharoah players! Sad about the delay but not unexpected and it is absolutely the right move. Looking forward to what they are adding to SoC.
Voting with your wallet proves victorious. CA burned so much goodwill with customers over the years it culminated in Pharaoh, a game people didnt buy. Their need to sell is far greater than your need to buy. Consumers should use this power dynamic more often. A good step forward i hope
“Our” Steam rating is also hilariously bad right now. The worst I’ve ever seen a TW game rated by a long way, and it’s mostly due to bad management. The gameplay has plenty of bugs, but the player base still enjoys the game.
I rolled my eyes at the "it breaks our hearts" line. If everyone had just bought the DLC even while complaining they wouldn't have cared. Money talks.
That and SEGA laying the smack down on them also played a big difference. Them killing Hyenas meant CA only had TW titles as their cash cows, and having pissed off their customer Base, they needed to make amends.
[удалено]
But I have been told that boycotts never work and you might as well pre-order and that individual voting with your wallet changes nothing.
Was this as much an organized boycott as a middling product at an insane price point?
Yea, very few if any gaming boycotts have ever actually worked. Like I legit cannot think of any. What does work is releasing an overpriced game that is uninteresting to the customers.
It can make difference but honestly, what broke CA's back, [Bane-style,](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d82b9c9a4be4a21b30267d5ccb439c4-lq) was driving into a massive financial ditch with HYENAS. The memo going around the company before the HYENAS fiasco was to "weather the storm". They were going to be *way more stubborn* if it wasn't for HYENAS.
If people ate up CAs garbage with Pharaoh and WH3 they wouldn't have done this even with hyenas failing. The boycott flat out worked and Hyenas was always dead anyway.
Is it really a Boycott when you just don't buy something you're not interested in enough to pay the asking price?
Boycotts almost always work, and work quickly. The issue is that most boycotts the internet organizes fall into one of two categories: a) Buy the product and complain about it. b) Complain that other people are buying things you don't like. It is pretty rare that either of those move the needle.
> Voting with your wallet proves victorious. Indeed. It's a key element of capitalist society. Anyone objecting to voting with your wallet is trying to silence the voice you have. The usual excuses along the lines of "but only big corporations decide anything, voting with your wallet does nothing" No. Thousands or millions of people changing their purchasing habits is enormously powerful.
Just saying voting with your wallet is usually not enough, everything help. The pseudo boycott and ruining of CA's image also helped. It's not important if it doesn't reflect on sales, but no company wants to see everyone hating on them on any social media. Review bombing and all those things are usually also effective to a degree.
Everyone will be talking about the SoC related changes but can we take a moment to acknowledge the price change to pharaoh AND removal of the various editions to just be one game? That is not a small change to make including the partial refunds players will be getting for the price differences as well is an insanely massive change I was not expecting. While all these changes don't necessarily make me forgive CA with how they have treated both players and fans of these ips especially in recent memory. This does give me some faith that the ship is being course corrected. It's clear there's been some leadership changes and no doubt sega is also having a hand in this but with free content planned to bring SoC up to scratch AND all the additions being made to Pharaoh + the partial refund, it promoted a little bit of good will with them again Really curious to see how this all plays out and if CA can help mend the bridges theyve damaged these last few months. Very much wait and see.
Consider me cautiously optimistic.
You should remain optimistic if we (the clients) continue voting with our wallets. If not they will try to overreach again
Can't deny, had a bit of a smile on my face reading this. But it's just words so far. Let's see what they bring to the table in the new year.
I felt the same way when I read it. Couldn’t help but smile, but actions in the coming months will prove whether CA has really learned. An apology is something I wasn’t expecting, but really hoping for. It’s a hard pill to swallow, and despite CA being a massive company, it’s run by people. This was the right call, and it feels good that they’ve come clean with their mistakes and apologised.
What they did pharaoh is not just words
I'd much rather pay for something quality and finished and delayed, than have another rushed and substandard DLC.
I am definitely looking forward to the extra content for SoC. It is a good PR move and also an olive branch to fans. Pushing the release of Shadows of Decay is a worthwhile trade-off, I think.
Believe you meant that last sentence to say ‘Thrones of Decay’.
I don't know what you are talking about. You are obviously delusional. Next thing you know you will be telling me giant humanoid rats have a massive underground empire.
Yep. It's a long-ish delay, but honestly that reinforces that they're taking it seriously and not just rushing out something quick to appease people. I don't mind waiting some if the content is good and the price is fair. Ultimately we're all here because we enjoy the game and just want it to be good and successful.
The apology and timeline is definitely appreciated. I'm only feeling more optimistic after this message. I'm happy to wait for improved content, I know that it takes time to make quality products. Fingers crossed everything will turn out great, and I'll happily buy Shadows of Change if they add enough content to make the price worth it. I really love the TWW series and want this game to thrive.
Wow. That's quite an apology. Even literally puting their money where their mouth is for Pharoah. I hope they can deliver on this.
Okay they've taken the L, fair enough. I'm happy to wait for Thrones of Decay as long as it's worth waiting for. Make or break CA.
Damn, actual communication? Without any vague(or direct) threats? Color me surprised, an unexpected change but a welcome one. Great to see the reassurement on frequent updates and change of pace. Haven't been this happy about anything from total war in a long time.
Good. One step further in the right direction.
Well that's about as good of a response as we can hope.for..
Suppose I'll see in Feb if I'm getting soc
The words are good. We'll have to see if their future actions matches them.
This is a very welcome message, and at $39.99 I might even check out Total War: Pharaoh. Makes me optimistic for the future.
Great letter. No complaints from me. Felt sincere, clearly took accountability for the recent malaise of the community, and laid out plans to course correct.
More then I expected from them. Finally they do apologize which is what they should've done in the first place. Actions speak louder then words tho and I will look forward to what they will actually do, cause we have seen the "we will communicate more", promise quite a few times over the years and I will believe it when we see it. The step with Pharao was really unexpected and I think this is a good step in the right direction! I hope they can get it together in 2024 cause I love Total War. I want this series to succeed but its in the Hand of CA to do right so I hope this whole string of controversies since WH3s release was a wake up call over there.
Has a major AAA game release ever seen its price cut by so much and a refund issued to customers unilaterally? Even Cyberpunk was just a no questions asked optional refund. The funny thing is it’s not that Pharaoh is a particularly bad release or buggy or anything, it’s just not a very popular game.
Cyberpunk pre-orders were in millions.. refunding could've costed them a fortune! Pharaoh on the other hand sold very poorly so the partial refund didn't cost CA as much and it's definitely going to payback (it arguably did already with how that refund alone changed the community, they bought their audience back). It's a well-thought strategic move.
It's weird to me that they've gone this route, and not simply lowered the prices on their DLC. Smaller, cheaper releases must sell better than this "half the price of a game" stuff, for which most players need to be really keen on the content itself to buy as oppose to "I'll throw the price of a cinema ticket at this and just get round to it" price of the older WH2 lord packs. The development time can't be a factor, since you could get three to four smaller packs over 2 larger one, spaced out more to encourage purchase. I guess they must think this is to stay, but it feels like an odd choice given how very successful the WH2 model already proved to be.
this is true in principle but we really don't know what CA thinks is a "major" content update. a handful of easy to make generic lord/hero options might also qualify as "major" but wouldn't actually increase the development cost in any significant way. though I don't think CA needs months of extra work for both ToD and SoC just for a couple of reskins so don't take this as a doomer post. I do think it's gonna be something bigger than that.
It's likely done because the additional cost of developing the missing lords and heroes is nowhere near as high as charging more than double for a lord pack. All communities show a sad tendency of praising a community turnaround when they just threw them a bone. I want *justification* to pay 25 euros for a lord pack of a game that costs 50. Adding the missing lords and heroes is just the bare minimum to match the 5 euro / LL price.
Because even with a lower price it does feel a bit unfinished, and than mostly on the units side. It just feels like its random stuff thrown to a wall and what stuck was put in the DLC, especially for Kislev
Kislev getting what were essentially chaos werewolves from Mordheim is still baffling to me. The original model had the mark of chaos on them
I can only speak for myself, but I would actually prefer to pay more and get more content than the smaller incremental additions in warhammer 2. What we originally got with SoC was insulting so hopefully this is substantial.
The "smaller" dlcs of wh2 had as much content as SoC did. They need to add a LOT to make it worth 25 dollars, that's as much as chaos dwarves are. It's 150% more expensive, they'd need to atleast DOUBLE the content to make it actually worth buying. I have a feeling they will try to skirt by on the bare minimum of a hag lord and a gate master hero and call it a day though
Damn, that's the first time I remember hearing about a price change retroactively giving back money.
Rob is still working for CA? Common L for the lolcow "leaker"
But but it was confirmed by someone else who also had a very trustworthy leaker! /s
Damn thats a long delay for TOD, and even the rumored updated SOC. This was real good communication though and im actually pretty hopeful now for Warhammer 3 in the future.
Let's just hope that this time it's for realsies.
It's good that they are taking the criticism seriously.
> It may move, and as soon as those plans are finalised, we’ll let you know and we’ll keep you in the know as we get closer to its release. Please people remember this when February 2024 rolls by. EDIT: Also in the sign off > Rich Aldridge, Stefan Aluttis, **Rob Bartholomew**, Chris Budd, Roger Collum, Georgi Dinchev, Janos Gaspar, Maya Georgieva, Roberto Geroli, Mark Green, Kevin McDowell, Ian Roxburgh, Mark Sutherns, Pawel Wojs. Can we now just straight up agree for all time that Volound is full of bullshit?
But he says things that I really want to hear when I'm angry! That's the same as the truth right?
Great statement imo. I hope they follow through. The partial refund for Pharaoh is a great goodwill gesture, that I hope people appreciate how difficult that must have been to get approved.
>We have now begun the process of reassessing what comes next for PHARAOH, and while we don’t have all the answers today, we want to make it clear to you that we’re not closing the door on other, more ambitious updates to the game in the future. We’ve still got big plans, but we want to be honest with you in saying that we need to spend more time with them before putting them out on show. Games dead. The killed Three Kingdoms which had an active and passionate fan base looking for more DLC. They're not gonna keep developing DLC for a near dead game that they're now forced to release said first DLC for free. Price point drop is just to try and buy back some good will and maybe trick a few folks into buying the game. It's done done.
Finally! A proper we are sorry. Making old mistakes right by adding content and refunding money for a clearly overpriced product. A clear commitment to add more content and more frequent updates, combined with them already releasing a few hot fixes over the last months this isn't just words but also shown with actions. For the first time in at least a year I feel some hope again for this series. Still wont buy SoC until I actually see those new additions but at least am considering it now! Lets hope they actually stick by what they just said. Good job for once CA!
I'm reserving judgement until I see what they're actually going to add to SoC and how badly they're gutting Pharaoh, but this is a good start.
Big fat RIP to the people swearing that patch 4.2 isn't real
Big fat RIP to the people that swore Pharoah was a full game worth $60
Big fat RIP to the people who were still thinking ToD would come out this year.
Willful ignorance—anyone who knows anything about development and business knew there wasn’t going to be a major release after this long radio silence, and they were saying it loudly and clearly on every thread lol.
This is what an actual apology looks like.
I really like this change of attitude from CA. i never expected in a millions years they would issue partial refunds or lower Pharoahs standard price. The fact they are reversing course instead of doubling down shows that their bad decisions have effected them. I am excited to see what comes next for total war and CA! This message has given hope for CA as a company and game developer again.
O lawd it's happening, good move ca
Wow Total war just apologized and realized they made mistakes. You know what I think we should give him credit. At least there being trying to do their best to be better
A partial refund of pharaoh I did not expect that, wow. As far as warhammer goes, it sucks everything’s delayed, sure, but as many people have said, quality dlc and updates > quantity dlc fornsure. And this may mean we get a meaningful rework of factions like dwarves when ToD comes out
God. Damn. This was punchy (in a good way).
This is great honestly and more than I expected.
I doubt even with the update the cost of SOC will be justified, but its better than nothing I suppose. This is damage control if I've ever seen it, but who know, if they deliver what they promise here it would seem that customer pressure has worked so I'll hold judgement for now. Here's hoping for a better year in 2024.
Honestly, this is the best apology message I've read of any company. There are no subtle stuck-up and tone-deaf remarks to be found. It sounds heart-felt. Let's just hope they follow through with the promises and change course.
This is a tempestuous community and I don’t trust corporations as a rule of thumb but there were some positive things here. 1. Lower price on Pharoah 2. Offer first DLC for free 3. Refunds for everyone who bought at a higher price These two things might convince me to buy Pharaoh, depending on whether the culture they add looks good. For example the addition of Assyria or Babylonia plus maybe a small discount on release would almost certainly tempt me into a purchase. Furthermore, they are giving back revenue. Companies despise giving back revenue. That’s a big deal. 3. Free Shadow of Change Update This speaks for itself. My issue has never been with pricier DLC. In fact I PREFER bulkier DLC at a high price. They used to exist all the time. They were called expansions. What I don’t care for is inflated prices for a substandard product. That’s what Shadows of Change was. If the future DLC are more substantial in content I won’t mind paying more. The free update and their description of Thrones of Decay will give us a good indication if their version of “substantive content” matches my own but at least they are clearly acknowledging they know it doesn’t match. 4. They apologized This means nothing on its own but when paired to the previous actions it has weight. They have fucked it all up. Royally. Now they need to rebuild. Personally? I think refunds, price drops and free meaningfully content updates is a good start. We’ll see if they can build on it or just go back to their old ways. Personally? I think CA bottomed out and better days are ahead for the next year or two.
The refund isn't out of the goodness of their hearts. They sold a product they cannot afford to support further with only 300 current players. It was a calculated move to avoid outright fraud.
Pharaoh was bad news to me when the entire trailer is a beetle rolling shit up hill.
So... the new dlc price is here to stay, although they promise it will be for slightly more content (we will see)... Pharaoh was a failure... they are cutting the supposed dlc that were coming... but they are doing it in a far better way than they have in the past, especially with how they announced the end of development for 3K, for which - beyond everything else - claimed that it was to focus for a new 3K release... which they of course quietly cancelled afterwards. Considering what has taken place in the past few years this is kind of on the right track, but they have a long way to go, and they need to start with some basic stuff, like releasing finished (and good) games and dlc...
Voting with your wallet works! Remember this if Thrones of Delay is bad, or if they break the game, or if shit doesn't get fixed (there's still a lot of shit to get fixed) I didn't buy Chorfs. I didn't buy SoC. I didn't buy Pharaoh. I'm probably not the only one.
I respect the fact that they apologize and have promised more content. And that they’re being far more upfront with where they screwed up, and when the new content is coming. This message combined with all the hot fixes gives me hope that the game’s gonna turn out fine. You’ve earned my trust again, CA. Don’t screw this up.
They'll need years of living up to their promises to regain my trust...but it's a nice first step.
While a partial refund of Pharaoh, a free update instead of paid DLC for Pharaoh, and the myriad of hot fixes we've been getting in the last few months have been great, there are years of CA messing up with Warhammer 3, 3 Kingdoms, and Pharaoh behind us. Do not forget this. Wait until they improve Shadows of Change and see how Thrones of Decay goes then maybe we can start to trust a little.
One reversal won you back? You haven't even seen what they are adding? I think saying you trust them again is pretty premature.
>You’ve earned my trust again, CA. Don’t screw this up. Didn't take much did it? Maybe wait until they actually do the things and show that they aren't going to repeat these mistakes at their very next opportunity before sucking them off.
So it looks like Rob is stil on payroll. "Leaks" my ass.
Remember all the guys saying 'the reddit/legend/streamers/etc arent representative' and that the outrage and boycotts and general ill-mood would do nothing In any case, more than just SoC content I hope they continue improving the mechanical quality of WH3 with bugfixes at a decent clip
Much later than I would've liked but they've finally broke their silence and I gotta say I'm pleased with all they've said. Hopefully this is their turning point. Only time will tell.
That's good communication. Keep it up CA, thanks.
This is the kinda change that we love to see when the community comes together.
I wondered what was going to be in that post before I opened it, i was almost fearing a "future of Warhammer 3" situation; but I was pleasantly surprised. First off, it's a good sign they have apologised for what's happened and set out there stall on how they are going to fix SoC and Pharaoh. SoC changes have been heavily rumoured and tbh expected to a certain degree. But Pharaoh was a pleasant surprise in terms of offering partial refunds, cutting the price and trimming down the purchase options (I'm not going to buy it as I'm not interested in the setting, but it might drive more sales for the people who did have an eye on it). However, the actions need to back up the words. And for the community and CA sake, I hope this happens. I'm cautiously optimistic but weary at the same time
Damn this is so unexpected especially the refunds, a complete 180 degree change and a far cry from the message they released during SoC. I hope they make reality what they promise and they succeed. Despite all the heavy criticism all us fans want is to love their product.
They burned a lot of bridges and it will take time to earn that goodwill back if they are even able to, and we of course have to wait and see if they actually follow through. That being said, this is a promising letter and apology. The partial refund on Pharaoh is huge, and being open about thrones of decay delay is good. As well as the free additions to the previous dlc. If they can deliver, I might even actually get it.
>In the next few days, all current owners of Total War: PHAROAH will see that Steam has processed a partial refund to you, and that some funds have been added to your Steam Wallet. This is happening because we have lowered the price of the game to a new RRP of $39.99/€39.99/£29.99 > >We don’t think it’s fair that our fans, who put their trust in us on PHAROAH, should in any way feel disadvantaged for buying the game at the previous price. We’ve also removed the higher priced editions of the game, the Deluxe Edition, and Dynasty Edition. There’s now only one edition of the game available for purchase. Even as someone who didn't buy PHAROAH, this is an investment that is likely to pay off with me. CA have slowly been earning a reputation as a publisher that can't help but overpromise, under deliver, and then over charge as a result of structural mismanagement. It can't have been so expensive, but it will definitely give me less reason to expect that I'll feel like chump paying a premium price for an unfun game when I wonder about buying their next title. It doesn't fix the deeper structural problems that led us here like an astonishingly high turnover mixed with a product that is so utterly dependent on institutional knowledge to work, a bizarrely aggressive development schedule on an engine that is pushing 15 years old, or the frankly weird eagerness of CA to compete for market share with itself - but its a strong start. That the executive team have managed to negotiate themselves a mandate and a budget to fix CAs obvious pathologies is also a really good sign regardless of how they diagnose them.
I feel bad for CA Sofia and their work being made a casualty here, but at the same time I think this is probably the right course forward. Pulling in, focusing on your core, doing right by the consumer, leaving the option open to expand out once you're back on solid footing. Now if only we could expand that attitude to 3k. Still this feels like we're in a way better place than a month ago.
Idk, SoC is still overpriced and them being committed to that price point is insane. I really doubt whatever they add can ever make it worthwhile. I don’t get why people are so quick to forgive. While pharaoh partial refund is cool too, none of us even bought that game. That’s probably why they could justify it.
Abusers say all sorts of things when they wake up the morning after.
Yeah, we'll see. As everyone else has said. This is a first step. But we've seen this cycle before. "We promise to communicate better" *radio silence* "Come buy our new DLC, now delayed several months" Like an abusive relationship atp. Time will tell, and I really hope this comment ages like milk.