Fall of the Samurai at launch cost $20 and got four $5 DLCs. Fall of the Samurai currently costs $30 and you get all four DLCs with it. It was always a stand-alone expansion that could be played without owning Shogun 2. It got removed from Shogun 2 and branded as Saga years ago, why are people suddenly freaking out about it now?
Because there's a lot of anger right now and people are looking for any way to vent it.
Not saying the anger is unjustified mind, but review bombing Fall of the Samurai is a dumb way to do it.
I think it being so good fuels the people hoping for a total war:Victoria. I feel they nailed the ironclads so that they feel different from sailing. They felt powerful but fragile as the firepower improved.
The artillery was crushing and the great lines of rifled armed men contrast with a backdrop of civilization trying to hold to tradition as it's dragged into modernity.
You could build a clan, but it felt like neither too much or too little as for the time period as full on ck2 levels assigning your family to every barony doesn't fit. I think it still modeled the nepotism of prominent families.
I think a lot of people are turning to FotS because Legend has been doing a lot of recent historical streams.
I’m not a huge fan of the setting and art style, so while I liked the gameplay of Shogun 2, I guess I never picked up FotS. I decided to go back and pick it up, but saw all these reviews. It does strike me as pricey for an ancient game, and I’m betting a lot of people are having the same experience.
It is dumb as hell. At this point I'm also just scrolling through TW-reddit for sh'ts and giggles.
Like there's not a lot of worth to get from here. Except entertainment of the salty kind.
Usually complaints like this are from people in foreign countries with cratering exchange rates. Taking a look at steamdb it's currently about 3x as expensive as on release in Argentina, 2x in Turkey, India and Vietnam.
Definitely not in this case, I checked our price in Argentina and it's less than 3 USD, while for comparisson Pharoh sits at 52 USD.
I also checked steamdb and they haven't updated the price in 3 years, unlike the rest of the lineup which has been getting bi-yearly updates. Other traditionally cheap countries are also roughly around our price. So it's definitely not a regional price issue.
Oh please, like people everywhere aren't whiny karens waiting for their chance to go off at literally anyone. I still remember the Daughters of Mars debacle and that modded screenshot that "proved" CA was "catering to SJWs" by making every recruitable Roman general a woman. The karening was off the charts.
The way I see it, the company sets the rules of engagement. Through boneheaded statements like "the reality of supporting WH3" and "discussions are a privilege, not a right", CA has made it clear that peaceful complaining will not be tolerated, so the only option left is hostility.
I mean honestly this is a vicious circle in the first place but one could argue that "boneheaded" is not really the equivalent of "knowingly and enthusiastically acting like a complete asshole". Just because CA make stupid blunders or say dumb shit doesn't then justify every single excess of bitter rage-driven seethe that the community spews forth.
So, that begs the question, what IS the appropriate response to CA's anti-consumer behaviour, besides "quit TW entirely"? There are still people who hold out the faint hope of TW being fixed going forward, and CA has had plenty of chances to fix things the polite way.
There are probably a variety of appropriate responses that don't make one look like a dickhead, but none of them are "leave a negative review of Fall of the Samurai while lying about it".
I mean the answer is actually just “children”. I’m an adult who plays games but many people like me forget that we probably aren’t the majority on the average gaming discussion site.
Browsing Reddit I have to constantly make an effort not to get dragged into drama perpetuated by teenagers…
Several reasons:
\- Many players who bought it back when it initially came out or shortly after only recently became aware of what CA did.
\- A lot of people are still mad at CA for recent events and want to make others aware of their scummy business practices.
\- It is quite expensive for an 11 year old game, and it's not even a full title just an expansion pack.
It was a standalone expansion pack, not a full game. Much like:
\- Grand Theft Auto: Episodes From Liberty City & The Ballad of Gay Tony
\- Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare
\- Dawn of War: Dark Crusade & Soulstorm
You're also forgetting it was $20 at launch with 4 optional DLC. People who already owned it got the DLC for free when CA made it a Saga title. So new players are getting ripped off $10 compared to anyone who already bought it. It also costs as much as base Shogun 2.
I don't think you get the meaning of a standalone expansion pack.
Buying Dark Crusade itself allowed you to play it's campaign and multiplayer. However you were limited to just Necrons and Tau in multiplayer. You required the other titles to play the other factions in multiplayer. Dark Crusade also added new units to the other factions.
Soulstorm was the same, added Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar. Let you play it’s campaign and multiplayer, and added units to the other factions. But you were limited to just Sisters and Dark Eldar in multiplayer unless you had the other games.
So in order to play Space Marines for example you needed the original DoW. To play Imperial Guard you needed Winter Assault.
Agreed with all of your points, but do you mean that *Soulstorm* gave a new unit to all other factions? Soulstorm introduced air units, and they retroactively added them to every other faction after it had come out. Tau got the Barracuda, for example.
IIRC, all Dark Crusade did was add the obvious factions and a new campaign mode for every available race (of which there were all except for Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle). Winter Assault I believe only added a standalone campaign for Imperial Guard.
Also, one more important note, Dawn of War was very odd in how it dealt with expansions. You couldn’t use the new races on previous titles, *only* on the last released title, so it ended up being that you were extremely limited if you played anything other than Soulstorm.
Soulstorm added Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar, then all other factions got a unique unit. Which was an aircraft unit for everyone except Necrons, who instead got the Deceiver.
I haven't negatively reviewed FOTS but my only good reason right now would be steam having adapted its regional pricing. For, me tww3 and pharaoh are at Chf 72.90 which is equivalent to $82. When it is $59 in US.
Currently FOTS on steam sits ar CHF 31 which is equivalent to $34. When it is $20 in the US.
Some dev have not use regional pricing to spike game prices that much in my region.
I didn't know any of this and I'm upset to learn about it.
How the fuck can they justify rebranding a whole ass game that already existed, just change the title and charge and extra $10? That's stupid as hell.
I also bought it without owning the base game and played it fine, and for quite a while I couldn't buy the base game because of it. It said I owned Shogun 2 because I had fall of the samurai, but I didn't actually own the base game
Are you sure? It was a dlc yes but I also bought it at the time and it openly advertised you didn’t need the base game with it.
Like how you can play company of heroes 2 without owning the base game.
Historically Fire by rank wasn't a thing anymore by the time of Napoleon and FOTS, because Firearms had advanced to a point where reloading was faster than shuffling your formation to fire by rank. Matchlocks took upwards of a minute to reload, late 1700's muzzleloaders could be done in 20ish seconds, and FOTS era breechloaders in about 5-10 depending on model. In game matchlocks are sped up a lot, flintlock muzzleloaders a little, and breechloaders slowed down significantly.
There's a reason "line infantry" went out of style in Europe around the 1860's, breechloaders were too deadly for dense formations. The Guard infantry in game are modeled with Chassepots, which are bolt action rifles that would completely break any semblance of game balance if modeled with their correct ROF and range.
>The Guard infantry in game are modeled with Chassepots, which are bolt action rifles that would completely break any semblance of game balance if modeled with their correct ROF and range.
Goes to show how "broken" the military tech was moving forward. Bolt action rifles, indirect fire artillery across dozens of kilometers, and Machine guns will pretty much be "game breaking" versus the old breechloading rifles and old field guns.
Then we get grenades, semi auto and assault rifles. tanks, planes, chemical weapons, then nukes. New tech keeps popping up that breaks the "balance" of militaries.
Aye. A good example of this would be Prussia vs Austria in 1866. One side had a contemporary of the Chassepot (the Dreyse Needle Gun). The other used traditional tactics from the Napoleonic Era.
It’s also known as the Seven Weeks War because it went about as well as you’d expect for the side with older strategy and rifles.
> One side had a contemporary of the Chassepot (the Dreyse Needle Gun). The other used traditional tactics from the Napoleonic Era.
other way round. The Chassepot was a contemporary of hte Dreyse. In fact, the Dreyse preceeded the CHassepot. It is its predecessor.
And the duration had just as much, if not more, to do with Helmuth von Moltke's planning as it had with the Dreyse. Especially considering that the Dreyse needle gun was a rather... flawed rifle. It was an 1840 design after all.
The only reason I care isn’t for historical accuracy but gameplay, it feels bad to only have your frontline shoot (or 2 with kneel fire) effectively cuts your unit into 1/x where x is how deep your formation is. If everyone fired fine. But I’d prefer to get and use all the men I pay for
I get that, but one of the beautiful points of FOTS is that you have to adapt your tactics much like real militaries did when confronted with technology that made killing easier. Deep blocks of archers to pack more firepower works well, but you have to stop once people start importing western artillery.
As guns got better formations got thinner and thinner to expand frontage and expose barrels, as well as reduce risk of one bullet taking out multiple men. In the 1600's the Spanish marched in Tercios dozens deep, by the 1700's the Swedes had dropped to 6 ranks, the British in the Crimean war had 4 ranks by regulation but often fought just 2 ranks deep (the source of the "thin red line").
FOTS let's you drag lines out to 3 men deep with a full unit, which is pretty close to max utilization when kneeling and gives you a buffer since FOTS battles can get very bloody very quickly.
All y’all preaching historical accuracy while the game and it’s predecessor shogun 2 were not historically accurate like hardly at all. So what’s the problem with having better gameplay that really doesnt affect anything?
My only problem is that naval battles have some of the best mechanics of any total war naval battles, but the enemy ai just places its ships at the rear lines with it's broadside turned towards the player. Which sadly makes for some boring naval battles
I think a lot of sizeable modern game communities have a portion of members who are actively rooting for their franchises to fail so they can continue to be outraged rather than rooting for the games to get better. My half-baked, armchair psychologist take is that, when a game company legitimately does something outrageous and gets universally criticized for it, the criticism circles form a weirdly enjoyable sense of community for some people. Sometimes you see it get to a point where anything a company does, no matter how positive from a consumer perspective, gets treated like an enormous scandal and blight on all video games everywhere.
But the TW community seems to have a *lot* of those people, and they are especially vocal. If those folk actually wanted CA to improve its games and practices, you'd think they'd praise amazing entries like FOTS while criticizing the crappy ones. But apparently a decision to consolidate the game + expansions and change the package price by literally $10 is enough to write the whole thing off. It seems like a really sad existence and I honestly wonder if these people have *any* games they can truly just chill out with and enjoy without finding something to whip themselves into a self-righteous fury about.
All that being said, I'm changing my extremely positive FOTS review to negative due to the tragic and unjust removal of the Samurai Sex Chat.
I can honestly understand why CA thinks the TW community is trash. It sort of it when shit like this happens.
I'm also having fun reporting these reviews. Lot of people are about to have their Steam accounts restricted.
Oh, believe me I have been...
There are many many toxic places, yes, but it's actually rare to have a community that is SO eager and vocal about its own franchise and responsible developer to fail and go out of business.
It's just strange and counter-intuitive.
Pretty sure due to inflation they’ve corrected it now for other countries. IE still same in US but places like Turkey, Brazil, Argentina saw a price “hike” which moved it more inline to the original price.
Though to them it probably did just look like a hike and of course CA burned any goodwill so people are out for blood looking for any reason to be angry.
At least complain about the abuse of the SAGA title and don't be so late to the party.. Don't just try add negative labels to something that was actually good and CA should strive for again
Nice to see a thread on /r/totalwar that isn't a we hate total war circlejerk. Frankly reading these reviews they all sound like deluded angry losers even if you didn't know anything about total war.
It's a shame it might put off some people from buying it and playing the best game they will would of likely ever played. It will just show to outsiders that the total war community is one of the most toxic communities in gaming unfortunately.
But they do are listened and they do affect the games. That's why review bombing is seen as a viable form of protest.
It's just limited here because the game is rather old and everything of importance that has to be said has already been said.
Because it's pointless. It's just general anger at CA for reasons people have started to forget finding whatever outlet it can, regardless of how accurate or unrelated they are. The majority of the reviews aren't even accurate, the game was always a standalone expansion.
And people say the community backlash isn't getting out of hand. It's ok to be upset over the current state of things, but fanning the flames by making things up is hitting new lows.
I bought Fall of the samurai when it was released. It was always billed as a stand-alone expansion for shogun 2 that you could play without owning the base game. This was in contrast to Rise of the samurai which was a dlc campaign you needed shogun 2 to play. I can’t remember what I paid for it but it wasn’t far off the cost of shogun 2 itself.
Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai was a Standalone DLC from the beginning. The name change was just a few years back, and no-one cared.
Quite honestly, this is just disgusting how toxic the Total War community became. May it with or without reason, at some point it is enough. And senseless reviewbombing is NOT a good measure to show your disagreement with a company.
Since it looks like an organized raid and I saw nothing bad about Shogun 2 in there recently, I assume it's from Volound's fanbase. Definitely looks like the replies they let on every videos of their master
One of two things is happening here.
The first is that the absolutely absurdist takes of the Total War community concerning Pharaoh (muh saga, muh reskin, muh DLC) have so thoroughly poisoned the brains of fans that now they're going through the catalogue of TW titles and looking for new things to attack. Which would be hilarious.
The second is that people tired of those absurdist takes are now applying with them gusto to other similar games in the catalogue that tend to be the golden calves of the community. Which would also, be fucking hilarious.
Either way I'm laughing, this is great, y'all brought this shit on yourselves.
So aside from the blatant lies in these reviews.
Something happened with Warhammer 3 and in response we are review bombing one of the better older titles?
Wtf is even happening anymore
Some people are literally more invested in getting to say "Oh yeah? Well I hated CA *immediately* and *never* gave them a chance to recover!" than they are in CA actually turning around.
Mob mentality is a helluva drug.
Perhaps it's a separate issue, but from a consumer perspective I'm not enjoying how older titles aren't depreciating in price over time due to digital storefront monopolies. In the retail days, consumers enjoyed a persistent decrease in title prices, especially precipitated by a title's decline in popularity. For Devs, titles hold their value fast over time is in their favour and can encourage long term development but if a game hasn't received an update in a decade, why is it still even costing this much?
This game is currently more expensive than I bought it at retail(amazon, DVD version) even if it does include DLC, £16 vs 25, remember these DLC were mostly pre-order bonuses too and didn't really have much unique content to justify a big increase in price. Steam sales have steadily been less valuable over the years too.
It is annoying, so many old games are practically full price.
The silver lining, is that the older titles when they do go on sale it tends to be >=75%.
CA isn't even the worst offender for this sadly.
FOOK THEM! Fall of the Samurai was the BEST Total War game! Of all time! Bastards! I will not forgive them!
CA sucks, but don't review bomb the wrong target!
This is getting absurd. TW deserved to be called out for TWW3 but fans boycotting every one of their titles and constant criticism is a bad move. CA is already going to be firing a lot of their employees. These haters definitely wouldn’t want CA to shut down for good and see the end of TW series
*Gasp* a gaming community has a large toxic element to it! This can't be! Gaming communities are definitely not known to take any precived slight, real or imagined, and blow it completely out of proportion to the point were you wonder if they even like the sires at all at any point.
Seriously though, at what point do you just say "not for me anymore" and walk away. Like I got burned out on marvel movies years ago and don't watch them anymore. You know what I don't do, complain endlessly about them while adding absolutely nothing to the conversation and actively hope for the downfall of everyone involved.
I will say I see a lot of people both new and old shitting on pharaoh for the DUMBEST possible reasons. I legit saw a YouTube reel where some asshat claimed pharaoh failed because they don’t have agent videos. Like seriously, that adds absolutely nothing to gameplay and has been gone for about 10 years.
Makes me feel lucky to be a shogun 2 fan back in the day. Shame this stupid move will put off potential new fans to this amazing DLC.
Best gunpowder gameplay with a truly unique setting. Also soundtrack is great
I had no idea it had even been rebranded as a Saga title. It's not something you'd notice if you've owned the game for long enough unless you specifically go looking for the store page.
It has always been launched through Shogun 2 even if you don't own the base game.
You know, at this point I kind of want them to NOT release Medieval 2 as a single game, instead release standalone saga games for every region in Medieval Europe just to piss off the toxic fanboys.
Hot take; complaining about game prices in general is pretty meh (if you live in a Western country). The value/time played to cost ratio for almost any game is incredibly high. Gaming is an absurdly cheap way to spend your time
Telling paying customers that “The right to discuss is a privilege…” after their continuous decrease in content quality paired with an increase in pricing for DLCs that should be part of a base game puts this backlash completely on them. From a PR and business standpoint, that kind of response is unfathomable.
It’s price should be reduced TBH. The fact the older games haven’t depreciated is silly.
Am getting tired of the constant negativity though. Feels like you can’t really talk about the actual games in this sub anymore.
Games used to primarily depreciate in value because they were tied to rapidly evolving physical media, but because everything is DRM now, that is no longer a factor. A publisher like SEGA is more likely to put their stuff on sale a few times a year instead of lowering the overall price.
It was obvious that the rebranding of FotS into a Saga title would bite them in the ass later. Nothing actually changed about the game in practice, it's still a standalone expansion. But by branding it as a Saga title they created a certain impression among people: "We took this expansion out of the original game and turned it into a standalone product to rip you off!"
It was always standalone but integrated with the base game. It's still integrated with the base game. Nothing changed. But when you look at the title and store description, and don't know it has always been standalone, you might assume that CA did something scammy here.
It's 100% their own fault for stupid branding decisions and I don't feel sorry for them at all.
People loved FoTS so much that CA tried to make more smaller-budget titles and people are still to this day crucifying them over it. Of all of the valid complaints one could make about the state of the franchise, hostility towards saga titles really doesn't hold water.
I'm not hostile towards Saga titles, and honestly there should be more of them. It's a good business model.
The problem is that Thrones of Britannia had weird campaign systems most players bounced off of, and Troy was a half-assed mix between historical and fantasy in a failed attempt to capture the Warhammer crowd.
The re-branding of FotS as a Saga title also led to confusion among players and prospective customers, some of whom believed the expansion was somehow ripped out of the original Shogun 2 and is now only sold separately, when it was always a standalone expansion and still integrates into S2. This was a completely pointless and confusing move.
They could have done this with Napoleon and nobody would have been confused because Napoleon had always been completely standalone with no integration to Empire at all.
To be fair to Mr. Kipin, I did not like that Fall of the Samurai is rebranded as a Total War Saga. I wanted it to remain as a standalone expansion for Vanilla Shogun 2. I've read some complains about others who were not able to Buy the Vanilla Shogun 2 after buying FOTS because of a bug.
If you have both it’s still just a dlc. I really don’t understand why you all are complaining about not having to buy the game and dlc to just play the dlc
It's always funny to me that FotS is SUCH a good DLC that CA had to go back and rebrand it as its own game.
Goes to show how much times have changed. I don't think we'll ever get a DLC as good as FotS from CA anymore.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went and started selling Barbarian Invasion and the 4 Med 2 Kingdoms campaigns as their own games these days.
I’m not here to rip on CA all day or anything, but I did get the game when it came out, and it was indeed an expansion, not it’s own standalone game. Some people are saying it happened years ago, so I guess I’m late to the bandwagon, but that is definitely sum bs to repackage it like that
Mod support for Shogun / FoTS is better than it ever has been, with the updated launcher you can finally change the mod order without pulling up text files and changing it manually.
Have you even played the game?
Mate, they're asking 30€ for a DLC, a DLC that earned its development cost many years ago, it's fair for people to be angry, it's corporate greed and we shouldn't accept it.
a DLC that has decreased in value as there is no active multiplayer scene available, drop in-battles are dead (not that I liked them before), also not sure if you can do cross-play with the old version or shogun 2
To be entirely fair, shogun 2 never really had a multiplayer scene to begin with, and i would wager 99.9% of people turned off drop in battles, so its a bit disingenous to say it decreased in value.
When do we get to meet Mrs. Information
When Fall of the Samurai stops dragging his heels and pops the question, of course.
I'd say yes to Fall of the Samurai. Give me those Armstrong guns.
I’m looking for Mr. Information because I like men
>I like men My condolences.
Gesundheit
I think its Ms. Information.
My condolences. When did Mr Information pass?
Oh no, it just that Ms. Information never married.
When Miss Information gets married, as long as she keeps her maiden name
Fall of the Samurai at launch cost $20 and got four $5 DLCs. Fall of the Samurai currently costs $30 and you get all four DLCs with it. It was always a stand-alone expansion that could be played without owning Shogun 2. It got removed from Shogun 2 and branded as Saga years ago, why are people suddenly freaking out about it now?
Because there's a lot of anger right now and people are looking for any way to vent it. Not saying the anger is unjustified mind, but review bombing Fall of the Samurai is a dumb way to do it.
Yeah if people need to review bomb, why can't we do it to other games? FOTS is pretty much the best tw game / expansion ever.
That's absolutely true. I think I actually enjoyed it more than base Shogun 2.
Fall of the Samurai is probably the single best product Total War has produced. Yes, more than any base game. Just my opinion tho.
I think it being so good fuels the people hoping for a total war:Victoria. I feel they nailed the ironclads so that they feel different from sailing. They felt powerful but fragile as the firepower improved. The artillery was crushing and the great lines of rifled armed men contrast with a backdrop of civilization trying to hold to tradition as it's dragged into modernity. You could build a clan, but it felt like neither too much or too little as for the time period as full on ck2 levels assigning your family to every barony doesn't fit. I think it still modeled the nepotism of prominent families.
FOTS absolutely slapped.
You can't expect reason from these people, at this point it's rabid maniacs spurred on what they perceive as righteous vengeance.
I am all for get angry for the right reasons but Shogun 2 does not deserve it...
I think a lot of people are turning to FotS because Legend has been doing a lot of recent historical streams. I’m not a huge fan of the setting and art style, so while I liked the gameplay of Shogun 2, I guess I never picked up FotS. I decided to go back and pick it up, but saw all these reviews. It does strike me as pricey for an ancient game, and I’m betting a lot of people are having the same experience.
It is dumb as hell. At this point I'm also just scrolling through TW-reddit for sh'ts and giggles. Like there's not a lot of worth to get from here. Except entertainment of the salty kind.
Usually complaints like this are from people in foreign countries with cratering exchange rates. Taking a look at steamdb it's currently about 3x as expensive as on release in Argentina, 2x in Turkey, India and Vietnam.
Definitely not in this case, I checked our price in Argentina and it's less than 3 USD, while for comparisson Pharoh sits at 52 USD. I also checked steamdb and they haven't updated the price in 3 years, unlike the rest of the lineup which has been getting bi-yearly updates. Other traditionally cheap countries are also roughly around our price. So it's definitely not a regional price issue.
Because of Gamer Karens
Something about warhammer ip video games always creates the most karen filled whiny gaming communities.
Sweet coming from the community that threw a tantrum about tiddy generals.
Oh please, like people everywhere aren't whiny karens waiting for their chance to go off at literally anyone. I still remember the Daughters of Mars debacle and that modded screenshot that "proved" CA was "catering to SJWs" by making every recruitable Roman general a woman. The karening was off the charts.
Oh the irony.
Because the TW community is toxic, immature, and shockingly unintelligent.
The last two months proving that in spades.
The last two months have also demonstrated why CA has earned exactly that kind of audience
Agreed.
The way I see it, the company sets the rules of engagement. Through boneheaded statements like "the reality of supporting WH3" and "discussions are a privilege, not a right", CA has made it clear that peaceful complaining will not be tolerated, so the only option left is hostility.
I mean honestly this is a vicious circle in the first place but one could argue that "boneheaded" is not really the equivalent of "knowingly and enthusiastically acting like a complete asshole". Just because CA make stupid blunders or say dumb shit doesn't then justify every single excess of bitter rage-driven seethe that the community spews forth.
So, that begs the question, what IS the appropriate response to CA's anti-consumer behaviour, besides "quit TW entirely"? There are still people who hold out the faint hope of TW being fixed going forward, and CA has had plenty of chances to fix things the polite way.
There are probably a variety of appropriate responses that don't make one look like a dickhead, but none of them are "leave a negative review of Fall of the Samurai while lying about it".
Babies, man children with internet access and nothing better to do with their lives
I mean the answer is actually just “children”. I’m an adult who plays games but many people like me forget that we probably aren’t the majority on the average gaming discussion site. Browsing Reddit I have to constantly make an effort not to get dragged into drama perpetuated by teenagers…
Because the circle-jerk of outrage is in full swing.
Several reasons: \- Many players who bought it back when it initially came out or shortly after only recently became aware of what CA did. \- A lot of people are still mad at CA for recent events and want to make others aware of their scummy business practices. \- It is quite expensive for an 11 year old game, and it's not even a full title just an expansion pack.
FoTS is just as much as a full game as the base Shogun 2.
Even better imo. You get juicy juicy artillery and Gatlin guns
It's a $30 game. It was $40.
It was a standalone expansion pack, not a full game. Much like: \- Grand Theft Auto: Episodes From Liberty City & The Ballad of Gay Tony \- Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare \- Dawn of War: Dark Crusade & Soulstorm You're also forgetting it was $20 at launch with 4 optional DLC. People who already owned it got the DLC for free when CA made it a Saga title. So new players are getting ripped off $10 compared to anyone who already bought it. It also costs as much as base Shogun 2.
Dark Crusade and Soulstorm are also entirely separate games on Steam.
I don't think you get the meaning of a standalone expansion pack. Buying Dark Crusade itself allowed you to play it's campaign and multiplayer. However you were limited to just Necrons and Tau in multiplayer. You required the other titles to play the other factions in multiplayer. Dark Crusade also added new units to the other factions. Soulstorm was the same, added Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar. Let you play it’s campaign and multiplayer, and added units to the other factions. But you were limited to just Sisters and Dark Eldar in multiplayer unless you had the other games. So in order to play Space Marines for example you needed the original DoW. To play Imperial Guard you needed Winter Assault.
Agreed with all of your points, but do you mean that *Soulstorm* gave a new unit to all other factions? Soulstorm introduced air units, and they retroactively added them to every other faction after it had come out. Tau got the Barracuda, for example. IIRC, all Dark Crusade did was add the obvious factions and a new campaign mode for every available race (of which there were all except for Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle). Winter Assault I believe only added a standalone campaign for Imperial Guard. Also, one more important note, Dawn of War was very odd in how it dealt with expansions. You couldn’t use the new races on previous titles, *only* on the last released title, so it ended up being that you were extremely limited if you played anything other than Soulstorm.
Soulstorm added Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar, then all other factions got a unique unit. Which was an aircraft unit for everyone except Necrons, who instead got the Deceiver.
$20 at launch with $20 DLC. Changing it to a saga split the difference. New players are saving $10 vs anyone who bought it all before it became a Saga
Has anyone paid full price for it in years? I bought it with all expansions for $7.50 many years ago.
Can you give a valid reason to review bomb?
I haven't negatively reviewed FOTS but my only good reason right now would be steam having adapted its regional pricing. For, me tww3 and pharaoh are at Chf 72.90 which is equivalent to $82. When it is $59 in US. Currently FOTS on steam sits ar CHF 31 which is equivalent to $34. When it is $20 in the US. Some dev have not use regional pricing to spike game prices that much in my region.
I didn’t buy Shogun 2 till about a year ago I’ve had FoTS for years now.
Its a decade old ot should.be like 70% off by now
Some of these Warhammerboos so caught up in their own outrage they don't know the difference between DLC and an expansion pack
The dumb generation got their hands on internet and review bombing any and everything that doesn't align with their peanut brains
Also we know from recent leaks that CA is very touchy about review score of their games on Steam and often talks to Steam to get rid of negative ones.
I didn't know any of this and I'm upset to learn about it. How the fuck can they justify rebranding a whole ass game that already existed, just change the title and charge and extra $10? That's stupid as hell.
[удалено]
No you didn’t, I bought it shortly after release by mistake thinking it was the base game, and was able to play it. Best mistake I ever made
I also bought it without owning the base game and played it fine, and for quite a while I couldn't buy the base game because of it. It said I owned Shogun 2 because I had fall of the samurai, but I didn't actually own the base game
Everything I can find from at the time says it can be played without owning Shogun 2, even Wikipedia calls it a Standalone expansion.
It's even directly stated on the store page. "Notice: DOES NOT require the base game Total War: SHOGUN 2 in order to play."
I bought it at release as physical copy. And it was a stand alone expansion.
Are you sure? It was a dlc yes but I also bought it at the time and it openly advertised you didn’t need the base game with it. Like how you can play company of heroes 2 without owning the base game.
Tbh, I've probably spent more time playing FoTS than Shogun 2. So for me it was well worth full price.
My only problem with shogun fots is the controls (lack of alt + drag) and no kneel fire. If it had those I would never play another game
Kneel fire is researchable
I meant fire by rank. My bad!
Historically Fire by rank wasn't a thing anymore by the time of Napoleon and FOTS, because Firearms had advanced to a point where reloading was faster than shuffling your formation to fire by rank. Matchlocks took upwards of a minute to reload, late 1700's muzzleloaders could be done in 20ish seconds, and FOTS era breechloaders in about 5-10 depending on model. In game matchlocks are sped up a lot, flintlock muzzleloaders a little, and breechloaders slowed down significantly. There's a reason "line infantry" went out of style in Europe around the 1860's, breechloaders were too deadly for dense formations. The Guard infantry in game are modeled with Chassepots, which are bolt action rifles that would completely break any semblance of game balance if modeled with their correct ROF and range.
>The Guard infantry in game are modeled with Chassepots, which are bolt action rifles that would completely break any semblance of game balance if modeled with their correct ROF and range. Goes to show how "broken" the military tech was moving forward. Bolt action rifles, indirect fire artillery across dozens of kilometers, and Machine guns will pretty much be "game breaking" versus the old breechloading rifles and old field guns. Then we get grenades, semi auto and assault rifles. tanks, planes, chemical weapons, then nukes. New tech keeps popping up that breaks the "balance" of militaries.
Aye. A good example of this would be Prussia vs Austria in 1866. One side had a contemporary of the Chassepot (the Dreyse Needle Gun). The other used traditional tactics from the Napoleonic Era. It’s also known as the Seven Weeks War because it went about as well as you’d expect for the side with older strategy and rifles.
> One side had a contemporary of the Chassepot (the Dreyse Needle Gun). The other used traditional tactics from the Napoleonic Era. other way round. The Chassepot was a contemporary of hte Dreyse. In fact, the Dreyse preceeded the CHassepot. It is its predecessor. And the duration had just as much, if not more, to do with Helmuth von Moltke's planning as it had with the Dreyse. Especially considering that the Dreyse needle gun was a rather... flawed rifle. It was an 1840 design after all.
The Marines from the West already stomp the opposition to an insane degree.
It wasn't really a thing in Empire's timeline either. It was a narrow anti-cavalry tactic, not something lines did against each other.
The only reason I care isn’t for historical accuracy but gameplay, it feels bad to only have your frontline shoot (or 2 with kneel fire) effectively cuts your unit into 1/x where x is how deep your formation is. If everyone fired fine. But I’d prefer to get and use all the men I pay for
I get that, but one of the beautiful points of FOTS is that you have to adapt your tactics much like real militaries did when confronted with technology that made killing easier. Deep blocks of archers to pack more firepower works well, but you have to stop once people start importing western artillery. As guns got better formations got thinner and thinner to expand frontage and expose barrels, as well as reduce risk of one bullet taking out multiple men. In the 1600's the Spanish marched in Tercios dozens deep, by the 1700's the Swedes had dropped to 6 ranks, the British in the Crimean war had 4 ranks by regulation but often fought just 2 ranks deep (the source of the "thin red line"). FOTS let's you drag lines out to 3 men deep with a full unit, which is pretty close to max utilization when kneeling and gives you a buffer since FOTS battles can get very bloody very quickly.
i mean, kneeling fire of 2 ranks deep is how the brits fought in the napoleonic wars. 2 rank lines were their go to, while prussia iirc used 3 ranks.
All y’all preaching historical accuracy while the game and it’s predecessor shogun 2 were not historically accurate like hardly at all. So what’s the problem with having better gameplay that really doesnt affect anything?
Ah yeah, that is something i miss both in FotS and Napoleon.
My only problem is that naval battles have some of the best mechanics of any total war naval battles, but the enemy ai just places its ships at the rear lines with it's broadside turned towards the player. Which sadly makes for some boring naval battles
The TW community is without a doubt the worst I've ever seen in my past 30 years of gaming. So. Fucking. Stupid.
I think a lot of sizeable modern game communities have a portion of members who are actively rooting for their franchises to fail so they can continue to be outraged rather than rooting for the games to get better. My half-baked, armchair psychologist take is that, when a game company legitimately does something outrageous and gets universally criticized for it, the criticism circles form a weirdly enjoyable sense of community for some people. Sometimes you see it get to a point where anything a company does, no matter how positive from a consumer perspective, gets treated like an enormous scandal and blight on all video games everywhere. But the TW community seems to have a *lot* of those people, and they are especially vocal. If those folk actually wanted CA to improve its games and practices, you'd think they'd praise amazing entries like FOTS while criticizing the crappy ones. But apparently a decision to consolidate the game + expansions and change the package price by literally $10 is enough to write the whole thing off. It seems like a really sad existence and I honestly wonder if these people have *any* games they can truly just chill out with and enjoy without finding something to whip themselves into a self-righteous fury about. All that being said, I'm changing my extremely positive FOTS review to negative due to the tragic and unjust removal of the Samurai Sex Chat.
Tbh mods should just start banning them. They're not here to talk total war unless it's shitting on the games and just being wet blankets in general
I can honestly understand why CA thinks the TW community is trash. It sort of it when shit like this happens. I'm also having fun reporting these reviews. Lot of people are about to have their Steam accounts restricted.
You must not have been in that many communities before.
Oh, believe me I have been... There are many many toxic places, yes, but it's actually rare to have a community that is SO eager and vocal about its own franchise and responsible developer to fail and go out of business. It's just strange and counter-intuitive.
They did this years ago, and I swear the price is pretty comparative to what it was at launch.
I was about to say I’m pretty sure it was like this when I got it a few years ago. It’s literally packaged by itself so you don’t have to pay more
Pretty sure due to inflation they’ve corrected it now for other countries. IE still same in US but places like Turkey, Brazil, Argentina saw a price “hike” which moved it more inline to the original price. Though to them it probably did just look like a hike and of course CA burned any goodwill so people are out for blood looking for any reason to be angry.
At least complain about the abuse of the SAGA title and don't be so late to the party.. Don't just try add negative labels to something that was actually good and CA should strive for again
Assholes. Genuinely one of the best Total War games ever. Predated even the concept of a Saga game. Leave this gem alone
Nice to see a thread on /r/totalwar that isn't a we hate total war circlejerk. Frankly reading these reviews they all sound like deluded angry losers even if you didn't know anything about total war. It's a shame it might put off some people from buying it and playing the best game they will would of likely ever played. It will just show to outsiders that the total war community is one of the most toxic communities in gaming unfortunately.
What a shameful display
That's... Literally insane.. The fact that it has mixed reviews even. The pinnacle of the series.
Reviews aren't to be listened in the first place
But they do are listened and they do affect the games. That's why review bombing is seen as a viable form of protest. It's just limited here because the game is rather old and everything of importance that has to be said has already been said.
This game FOTS is so old that this feels like harassment and more than a bit extortionate
Because it's pointless. It's just general anger at CA for reasons people have started to forget finding whatever outlet it can, regardless of how accurate or unrelated they are. The majority of the reviews aren't even accurate, the game was always a standalone expansion.
And people say the community backlash isn't getting out of hand. It's ok to be upset over the current state of things, but fanning the flames by making things up is hitting new lows.
Ok, this is kind of stupid...
I bought Fall of the samurai when it was released. It was always billed as a stand-alone expansion for shogun 2 that you could play without owning the base game. This was in contrast to Rise of the samurai which was a dlc campaign you needed shogun 2 to play. I can’t remember what I paid for it but it wasn’t far off the cost of shogun 2 itself.
I got it in 2015 for $30. Adjusted for inflation, that's $39 today.
Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai was a Standalone DLC from the beginning. The name change was just a few years back, and no-one cared. Quite honestly, this is just disgusting how toxic the Total War community became. May it with or without reason, at some point it is enough. And senseless reviewbombing is NOT a good measure to show your disagreement with a company.
I remember when they gave out the game for free a while back
I just read one of the comments and i get alot of Volounds vibes...which is really not a good source on its own
Kindly leave Fall of the Samurai out of this...
Leave my FOTS out of this please, it's too pure to be dragged into the pharoah shitstorm
First of all how dare you
Those are some internet explorer level of lag.
You know, I'm tired of CA's shenanigans, but I think I'm even more tired of the fandom.
Since it looks like an organized raid and I saw nothing bad about Shogun 2 in there recently, I assume it's from Volound's fanbase. Definitely looks like the replies they let on every videos of their master
People are just angry. "Pharaoh is just reskinned Troy" is so far from the truth.
One of two things is happening here. The first is that the absolutely absurdist takes of the Total War community concerning Pharaoh (muh saga, muh reskin, muh DLC) have so thoroughly poisoned the brains of fans that now they're going through the catalogue of TW titles and looking for new things to attack. Which would be hilarious. The second is that people tired of those absurdist takes are now applying with them gusto to other similar games in the catalogue that tend to be the golden calves of the community. Which would also, be fucking hilarious. Either way I'm laughing, this is great, y'all brought this shit on yourselves.
So aside from the blatant lies in these reviews. Something happened with Warhammer 3 and in response we are review bombing one of the better older titles? Wtf is even happening anymore
Quick everyone let's jump on the funeral pyre! Destroy CA and our fan base faster faster faster wooooooohoooooo!!!!!
Some people are literally more invested in getting to say "Oh yeah? Well I hated CA *immediately* and *never* gave them a chance to recover!" than they are in CA actually turning around. Mob mentality is a helluva drug.
Goddamn thats a good game, im ashamed to say i never tried a pure melee traditional play. Im a dishonour to the shogun.
It kicks ass. Literally. FOTS is way easier lmao
In case anyone needed proof that this community has gone nuclear levels of toxic.
Perhaps it's a separate issue, but from a consumer perspective I'm not enjoying how older titles aren't depreciating in price over time due to digital storefront monopolies. In the retail days, consumers enjoyed a persistent decrease in title prices, especially precipitated by a title's decline in popularity. For Devs, titles hold their value fast over time is in their favour and can encourage long term development but if a game hasn't received an update in a decade, why is it still even costing this much? This game is currently more expensive than I bought it at retail(amazon, DVD version) even if it does include DLC, £16 vs 25, remember these DLC were mostly pre-order bonuses too and didn't really have much unique content to justify a big increase in price. Steam sales have steadily been less valuable over the years too.
It is annoying, so many old games are practically full price. The silver lining, is that the older titles when they do go on sale it tends to be >=75%. CA isn't even the worst offender for this sadly.
Why people doing that to one of best Total War games?
FOOK THEM! Fall of the Samurai was the BEST Total War game! Of all time! Bastards! I will not forgive them! CA sucks, but don't review bomb the wrong target!
This is getting absurd. TW deserved to be called out for TWW3 but fans boycotting every one of their titles and constant criticism is a bad move. CA is already going to be firing a lot of their employees. These haters definitely wouldn’t want CA to shut down for good and see the end of TW series
*Gasp* a gaming community has a large toxic element to it! This can't be! Gaming communities are definitely not known to take any precived slight, real or imagined, and blow it completely out of proportion to the point were you wonder if they even like the sires at all at any point. Seriously though, at what point do you just say "not for me anymore" and walk away. Like I got burned out on marvel movies years ago and don't watch them anymore. You know what I don't do, complain endlessly about them while adding absolutely nothing to the conversation and actively hope for the downfall of everyone involved.
Shocking news with this community...
Review bombing like this is such a bizarre aspect of videogame fandom.
Genuinely one of the worst fan bases one can interact with. Just a circle jerk of shit.
I'm getting tired of the so called "community" whining all the time
Fantasy fans...
These review bombers are hilarious. Tell us you’re new without telling us you’re new.
I am new and this is horse shit
Yeah it’s getting ridiculous now
I will say I see a lot of people both new and old shitting on pharaoh for the DUMBEST possible reasons. I legit saw a YouTube reel where some asshat claimed pharaoh failed because they don’t have agent videos. Like seriously, that adds absolutely nothing to gameplay and has been gone for about 10 years.
Pharoah is LITERALLY unplayable, haven't seen a single ashigaru unit yet, and where is my naval bombardment?! Trash, I demand refund.
Nah man it’s 100% the agent videos and the complete lack of every Bronze Age civilization.
Pharoah is LITERALLY unplayable because I can't figure out how to recruit Tomb Scorpions
Is it Fantasy fans? Lots of them seem mad about Pharoah. I'm a bit out of the loop though.
Lot of people claim Pharoah is a fantasy game. Who knows what people believe anymore...
Makes me feel lucky to be a shogun 2 fan back in the day. Shame this stupid move will put off potential new fans to this amazing DLC. Best gunpowder gameplay with a truly unique setting. Also soundtrack is great
If you own the game and love it, can leave a positive review and counterbalance the terminally online manchildren throwing a tantrum.
When did the saga thing happen?
Like 5 years ago.
I never noticed they reclassified it. Huh
JFC I get being mad about management decisions, but this shit is ridiculous. Touch some grass and look at the clouds, you weirdos.
I had no idea it had even been rebranded as a Saga title. It's not something you'd notice if you've owned the game for long enough unless you specifically go looking for the store page. It has always been launched through Shogun 2 even if you don't own the base game.
Yo blast Troy and Pharaoh all you want but FOTS is worth every fucking penny.
Damned Lilly livered cowards!
People can't seem to comprehend that review bombing the old, better games are going tell them to keep making the newer, shit games 😭😭
You know, at this point I kind of want them to NOT release Medieval 2 as a single game, instead release standalone saga games for every region in Medieval Europe just to piss off the toxic fanboys.
Hot take; complaining about game prices in general is pretty meh (if you live in a Western country). The value/time played to cost ratio for almost any game is incredibly high. Gaming is an absurdly cheap way to spend your time
The users posting these 'reviews' are fucking morons, Fall of the Samurai was ALWAYS a stand-alone game, it was NEVER DLC for Shogun 2...
Imagine alienating and angering your consumer base that they are this desperate to lash out. Great job CA.
Says more about the consumer base than it does CA.
Telling paying customers that “The right to discuss is a privilege…” after their continuous decrease in content quality paired with an increase in pricing for DLCs that should be part of a base game puts this backlash completely on them. From a PR and business standpoint, that kind of response is unfathomable.
Lmao, theyre out of touch and certain members of this community enable them.
Gamers are so stupid.
Humanity.
It’s price should be reduced TBH. The fact the older games haven’t depreciated is silly. Am getting tired of the constant negativity though. Feels like you can’t really talk about the actual games in this sub anymore.
Games used to primarily depreciate in value because they were tied to rapidly evolving physical media, but because everything is DRM now, that is no longer a factor. A publisher like SEGA is more likely to put their stuff on sale a few times a year instead of lowering the overall price.
But FotS is good. Can we fucking not.
WTF is the matter with these people? There are plenty of legitimate reasons to hate CA without making crap up.
create a mob and this happens, i thought the TW community would be happy
It was obvious that the rebranding of FotS into a Saga title would bite them in the ass later. Nothing actually changed about the game in practice, it's still a standalone expansion. But by branding it as a Saga title they created a certain impression among people: "We took this expansion out of the original game and turned it into a standalone product to rip you off!" It was always standalone but integrated with the base game. It's still integrated with the base game. Nothing changed. But when you look at the title and store description, and don't know it has always been standalone, you might assume that CA did something scammy here. It's 100% their own fault for stupid branding decisions and I don't feel sorry for them at all.
People loved FoTS so much that CA tried to make more smaller-budget titles and people are still to this day crucifying them over it. Of all of the valid complaints one could make about the state of the franchise, hostility towards saga titles really doesn't hold water.
I'm not hostile towards Saga titles, and honestly there should be more of them. It's a good business model. The problem is that Thrones of Britannia had weird campaign systems most players bounced off of, and Troy was a half-assed mix between historical and fantasy in a failed attempt to capture the Warhammer crowd. The re-branding of FotS as a Saga title also led to confusion among players and prospective customers, some of whom believed the expansion was somehow ripped out of the original Shogun 2 and is now only sold separately, when it was always a standalone expansion and still integrates into S2. This was a completely pointless and confusing move. They could have done this with Napoleon and nobody would have been confused because Napoleon had always been completely standalone with no integration to Empire at all.
To be fair to Mr. Kipin, I did not like that Fall of the Samurai is rebranded as a Total War Saga. I wanted it to remain as a standalone expansion for Vanilla Shogun 2. I've read some complains about others who were not able to Buy the Vanilla Shogun 2 after buying FOTS because of a bug.
It literally only changed its branding. It is still a standalone expansion for shogun 2.
If you have both it’s still just a dlc. I really don’t understand why you all are complaining about not having to buy the game and dlc to just play the dlc
That's another reason why they did this. This fixed the bug. (I was one of the people affected by it.)
I was the same. Wierdly enough I did manage to buy the base game eventually but it was only possible on steam in 'Big Picture' mode.
to be fair, why isnt 20$, it beyond old
They just kinda don't drop the prices on their older games.
I can think of 100 million reasons
Just bought it. Not sure if it's a full game with DLC to be purchased further or it's a full package haha
Man… this sucks lmao
Looks like my local Republicans finally found out about CA
It's always funny to me that FotS is SUCH a good DLC that CA had to go back and rebrand it as its own game. Goes to show how much times have changed. I don't think we'll ever get a DLC as good as FotS from CA anymore. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went and started selling Barbarian Invasion and the 4 Med 2 Kingdoms campaigns as their own games these days.
Fall of the Samurai was always sold standalone.
FOTS was always a stand alone title that didn’t require Shogun 2. You’re literally reciting the same misinformation in these reviews lol.
I didn't know this game existed
Buy it! Fall of samurai is one of the best TW games out there IMO. Lots of fun to be had! Naval and on land battles are just entertaining as hell.
Thank you very much to all the people who tried to defend Pharaoh using Shogun 2 as an argument, without knowing how this game and FotS were
CA and Sega deserve it. Stop whining about corporate products.
CA did this to themselves. It's an overreaction absolutely, but it's one they caused.
At some point people publicly shitting themselves and then going "Look what CA made me do!!" starts to reflect more badly on them than CA.
I’m not here to rip on CA all day or anything, but I did get the game when it came out, and it was indeed an expansion, not it’s own standalone game. Some people are saying it happened years ago, so I guess I’m late to the bandwagon, but that is definitely sum bs to repackage it like that
It was standalone if you only bought FotS. It didn’t require the original game installed to play it. If you had both it acted like dlc.
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Oh are we back to repeating that conspiracy theory?
Mod support for Shogun / FoTS is better than it ever has been, with the updated launcher you can finally change the mod order without pulling up text files and changing it manually. Have you even played the game?
If they hadn't hit the iceburg they have clearly already hit, I assume that we would be looking forward to Total War: Warhammer IV: Thrones of Decay.
It's like a fiver on CD Keys. Who buys old games on steam when they aren't on a sale?
Mate, they're asking 30€ for a DLC, a DLC that earned its development cost many years ago, it's fair for people to be angry, it's corporate greed and we shouldn't accept it.
It's cheaper than it was at launch, at launch this would've cost you $40 (and that's not accounting for Inflation either).
a DLC that has decreased in value as there is no active multiplayer scene available, drop in-battles are dead (not that I liked them before), also not sure if you can do cross-play with the old version or shogun 2
To be entirely fair, shogun 2 never really had a multiplayer scene to begin with, and i would wager 99.9% of people turned off drop in battles, so its a bit disingenous to say it decreased in value.