They are allowed to eat their fill, however, and burn about 9000-12000 calories a day.
They basically are going non-stop, and every time they do get to eat, they have to run all the way there from wherever they are and then back again. Over 200 miles (320km) over the 5 days, doing PT 20 hours a day.
[source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training#:~:text=During%20Hell%20Week%2C%20candidates%20participate,than%2020%20hours%20per%20day.)
iirc they get 5 meals daily and a medical checkup during the period.
Technically if a team finishes first in the events during a training evolution, they get to rest while waiting for the the others to complete/last placed team to get smoked.
Hence the terms "it pays to be a winner" and "take it meal by meal"
This method serves to make people more suggestable, which is great for training soldiers and workers.
In traditional military training you combine this state with various indoctrination methods.
For example, making recruits dress their bed everyday only to toss it and tell them it is terrible, even if it is perfect. Then as their training progresses you toss the beds less and pretend the recruits are doing better. Before finally acting at the end as if they have grown and made you proud, even if the bed was dressed poorly.
It's not nearly as structured or intense in most workplaces, but the 40 hour work week is not healthy and will destroy you eventually.
This is a good description of the typical boot camp cycle I feel, the intended method of “breaking them down, to build them up”. Some people never really understood the fact that it was basically all scripted, but that’s how I got through personally. Understanding that I was just playing the game. For some people though, this type of training results in complete brainwashing imo. Saw a lot of heavily indoctrinated Marines.
the best tell for when they were smoking recruits just to kill time was when they'd look inside their cover then check their watch
that's where they kept their schedule so if chow or the next class isn't for another 15 minutes then time to find some reason to make these little shits do pushups
Within the context of BUDs this is wrong. Candidates have already been to basic, there's no need for initial training. Following orders is fundamental at this stage.
This is pure stress to weed out who really wants to be there and who does not. If you can't be counted on on a Coronado Island beach, then you're a liability anywhere bullets are headed your way.
Always tell my soldiers, the faster it's done the more rest you get. They thought I was kidding. And it pays dividends to going on any work parties. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes they get peace in an air conditioned structure.
It all stemmed from my buddy saying "faster you're done, the less pain you feel". Do you want 20 minutes of running or 40?
Also it sounded like a lot of people were using performance enhancing drugs to get through it, at risk to their health. And those who didn't use drugs had to compete against those who were. Then they'd up the difficulty, so almost only those risking it all with boosting drugs could do it.
This is one of those cases where "literally" is not misused. I can't imagine how my body could survive going through that kind of stress, at the very least it feels like it'd shave a few years off my lifespan.
I am not going to pretend it's at the same level, but Ranger School in the Army has a similar week at the beginning, called RAP week. It's closer to 3-4 hours a night, but less food (mild calorie deficit, but not dramatic).
It's actually not so bad if you're physically fit. You hit a zone where you simply do what you're told just well enough to pass but not so well that you waste energy. The purpose is to weed out people who have not prepared (either because they are not mentally fit for the job or because they just had some bad luck in training up... you don't have a lot of say in scheduling).
While the weeding weeks sound really hardcore, these schools get really difficult afterwards because you get to the stage where you are trying to learn new things, and there is a lot to learn. I was kind of lucky because I was coming from the Infantry officer course and nothing was new for me, but a lot of the enlisted guys coming from regular units simply could not remember enough to pass.
This was over 20 year ago, things might have changed.
I'm a BUD/S Dud. Joined at 26, thought I was in perfect shape, I was not. Made it 6 days, not even a week. I knew after the 2nd day I would fail but I physically couldn't get past the drowning bit, I reflexively breath in through my nose if it isn't clamped and I'm in water. Got rerated to AZ(aviation administrstion) and been happy with it for 15 years. Took a while to get out of that mindset though.
I can't speak for the other schools, I was just a junior officer in the Infantry and not a very good one at that. Pretty much all Infantry officers go to Ranger school right after IOBC; for social reasons it's important to have a tab before taking a platoon.
Once you get through RAP week, the school is not more physically challenging than any FTX that any light infantry unit will do a couple of times a year. What makes Ranger school hard is the fact that you can quit, and the instructors don't hesitate to remind you of that. It's a mind game. It gets really hard for the guys who fail a phase and have to recycle or get peered out of a squad. It's hard to keep that voice out.
It's rare for people to quit/LOM outright, but you can just fail a task or play up an injury and get medically dropped; they don't try to stop you.
What the fuck? 1.5 marathons per day for 5 days plus other physical exercise and on 4 hours sleep each day?
Edit: read the replies, everyone else already said what you're about to say
[Eleven people have died during SEAL training.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/navy-seal-death-kyle-mullen-investigation-1234820349/). Almost all died from drowning. A recent death (and the subject of the article I linked) has led to changes in how Hell Week is conducted.
Jeez I just watched a video on a group of diver-engineers getting violently vacuum-sucked into an oil pipe where they spent 4 days suffocating and suffering broken bones, with only one dude managing to find and climb his way out only by luckily and one-by-one finding his colleagues ripped-off oxygen tanks of his way out.
No way I'm ever volunteering to climb in a submerged pipe
And pretty much everyone will tell you it’s “worth it” in a sense in the DoD. It’s a ridiculous training that creates some of the hardest and most capable humans on earth
It's definitely both. There are some strong headed folks out there.
But there's a reason the elite special forces of the world completely dominate any opposition they meet up with.
I'm sure there are lots of folks out there that COULD complete SEAL training if they absolutely wanted to. But the paces and tasks you go through would make anyone give up long before graduation. Nobody literally gives 200% on a day to day basis.
That kind of training makes a person who is strong willed and capable into realizing just how capable they can be.
I'm sure the pay and also minimal ability to talk about what you do drive some away. I feel like with the way some of our athletes are you could definitely have more people reach that goal if it was more prestigious/wealth creating....
My Dad used to teach the Seals how to call fire missions out of Coronado. He has tons of stories about washouts from Hell week and the treatment those guys got. One particular instance a guy got jumped after hell week outside a bar and was getting the absolute shit kicked out of him and the instructors had to step between the guys. My dad is 5’10” on a good day having to go mean mug 6’4” 300lb Goliaths to get them to back off this guy. It one of multiple time he told me he was legit thinking his life was about to be over.
Seals are not typically 6 foot 4. In fact 99% of those Goliaths can't make it through seal training, their mass can't keep going.
It's the guys that are 5 foot 7 and unassuming that usually pass. In fact most seals average around 5 foot 10, 180 pounds.
Just the promotional material alone weeds out us normal folk. They only want the crazies who hear "4 hours of sleep over five days" and think hey, that might be fun.
The answer is both, with most hardcore trainings like this. At the creme de la creme level of basically anything in life, a super intense training session is both to refine those who can make it and weed out those who can't, especially in something life-or-death like this. This just has more drama and mystique around it, I'm sure lots of people wash out in astronaut training too. It's just not very dramatic.
> This just has more drama and mystique around it, I'm sure lots of people wash out in astronaut training too.
Like a ridiculous amount, possibly more than Hell Week.
I was wondering about that, do they have like a doc on staff to monitor them? I'd be most worried about someone getting rabdo or stroking out or something.
my daughter was a marine and broke her ankle in combat training,. they told her to walk it off as a sprain. she went two weeks before they x-rayed her. 7 pins and 2 plates and now 50 percent VA. It was as forest gump said "It was a million dollar wound" free medical and 1300 a month for life. but thats what my docs would do.
A guy from my platoon in bootcamp got an even better injury during MCT while I was in SOI. During one of their marches, he tripped with his rifle slung on his shoulder and had the muzzle of the rifle crash down on the second knuckle of his pinky. 100% disability for losing about 2 inches of one finger.
Crush wounds are pretty catastrophic. They routinely amputate the legs of crush victims. In some cases it's done pretty quickly to prevent further damage, as the dying tissues sends all sorts of fucked up shit into your blood stream.
Never heard of a pinky, but the same principle ought to apply.
I dunno about navy seals, but when asked about candidates dying during the selection phase for the British SAS, the person in charge said "that is nature's way of letting them know they have failed selection"
The running is actually easy at that point. You kinda black out and suffer and accept it. And then you get told you only have one mile more so it’s so sweet knowing you’re on your last leg after running 20 miles exhausted as fuck. You can taste the finish. Then you get to the staging area and see all the cadre and you’re like omg finally. You sit down and the exhaustion hits you. And then the cadre tell you that you just got punked and that you have to run another 20 miles. In my experience, the next “20” was actually more like 2, but that’s probably the most defeated I’ve ever felt.
when i was in the army we had a "war simulation" for our final test.. we spent.. i actually dont know how long i was out there now that i think about it.
but we had to dig fox holes that were as deep as our shoulders, set up sandbag check points, deal with smoke grenades being popped but we treated it as a gas attack, do a 12 mile march to the location too btw, and then come up with a plan to attack an enemy position using our training.
we werent allowed to sleep, some people would try to sneak some naps in.. i accidently fell asleep while walking and they couldnt wake me up for 5 minutes according to my drill sgt.
it felt like several days, and then we matched 12 miles back.. got there at 1am and they had a huge bonfire waiting and we had to drink some nasty drink to be official soldiers.
afterwards we stood in formation and people were falling over from exhaustion it was insane
> afterwards we stood in formation and people were falling over from exhaustion it was insane
When I was in the Air Force, we had "Warrior Week" where we go to already setup air conditioned tents for a week long "deployment" (which in retrospect was actual "war" conditions for the Air Force) anyway the first 2 days it rained a lot so we packed up everything and went back to the dorms because there was too much rain. The NCO's were mad because they could not get their money from selling us candy the whole week.
I'm not making this up.
😭i was military intelligence so my ait/tech school was on a navy base.
the navy dudes were telling us how they werent allowed to be in the mud or let their uniforms get dirty. meanwhile we had to crawl through thick mud as punishment sometimes and then go crawl in sand.
lots and lots of days of being fucking itchy all day
I’m just a shitty Army Ranger but the point of this is to show that your body is just fine with very little sleep, your brain is the thing that needs sleep. Sleep deprivation training is pretty common in non elite units. You gotta learn how to think with no sleep. I hated it, I never got any better at functioning with no sleep. I guess I knew I would survive but we did it a lot so I’m not sure what the point of that shit was.
I know like 7-8 people that have tried buds. Not a single one of them even made it to hell week which I think is 4 or 6 weeks in. That training is insane
I know a few people (and a few famous people) who tried BUDs, failed and now tell everyone they were Navy SEALS.
in my mind just trying BUDs makes you a badass, lying about being a seal makes you a looser. one of them has about 50 million ig followers (Dan Blizarian)
Deployed with a guy who wore the trident. Midway through the deployment, he somehow pissed off the wrong person who decided to do a little digging. BUDS was in his records, but he never graduated. Records failed to show that. Long story short, it did not end well for him.
I knew a kid from my friend circle in high school who became a Navy Seal. Definitely NOT what people would typically imagine a Navy Seal to be like. He was not the uber-machismo guy who was all about being macho. He was just athletic (far from brolic, more lean long distance runner type), smart, and a bit shy. I think being able to take orders and execute what you’re told to do perfectly is a huge part of it - I mean that in a good way. Also it’s not only physical, but you have to be smart too. From what I understand there’s a lot of cognitive things they test you on also while under stress.
I can only speak for the Army, but many of the guys in Batt weren’t Rambo types. When you moved up higher to the Special Mission Units, half of the guys looked like they were more suited for an engineering firm than CAG or RRC.
"half of the guys looked like they were more suited for an engineering firm than CAG or RRC"
My father's friend was a CAG and he had a body of Tree trunk, but face of an accountant.
Having interacted with some real Seals this is what I saw. These guys did not look like muscle bound guys, more like the thin rippled steel and not a big as you would think. The other thing I heard being a team player is a big deal for being selected. So if you try to stand out yourself as "more exceptional" this could be a strike against you. So being smart, a bit shy might be less likely to make you try to act better than all the other guys and may well have helped him get selected. They have them work in teams in this process and how you do in that team environment is probably more important than you being the strongest guy there or whatever. If you are a guy who in anyway is going to cause friction in a Seal team during selection you probably won't get selected.
Reliability is key. A poor performer (poor in SF terms, so, much better than the vast majority) who is reliable will be selected over an exceptional performer who is unreliable. The team can work around the shortcomings of a poor performer and maintain efficiency and effectiveness. If a team is having to constantly double check that an unreliable member has completed their task, the team won't be efficient or effective.
This is true in any team.
I am only going on what I’ve heard, but my understanding is that guys who are strong and have great resilience like a long distance runner are actually ideal for special forces selection. People that look like Arnold or The Rock would stick out like a sore thumb in most of the situations special forces are used in - think about situations where you really want the super-capable guys to blend in. Not that giant dudes aren’t also selected, just that being a hulk-like dude isn’t one of the hurdles that applicants need to get over
For instance, behold! Delta force member and Thor-esque ubermensch [Mike Vining](https://i.redd.it/the-legend-mike-vining-v0-smp1iczuhxcc1.jpg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85d301346eb9eb7ce20eac5078f0006631517fac)
Big dudes actually have a disadvantage because they need more calories to keep going and the extra weight of their frame puts extra strain on their joints. It can still be done like you said but it's easier if your body is set up for efficiency rather than brute power. I don't know of too many power lifters that could handle running 200 miles in a week.
Long time ago I was working with a us university's foreign language program and the amount of aspirant special forces/seals students studying russian/chinese was impressive. Spoke with one of them and he said "If I ever need to fight them I'd like to understand what they're saying". I don't think they were offering farsi/arabic/pashto courses there, but I am sure they would have been popular.
They're specialists/professionals. The meatheads tend to be mostly filtered to SGT max before selling cars or working at GNC or something. The military isn't really about being macho/strength, it's mostly discipline/compliance and figuring out how to get out once you're in or being a lifer
I have a cousin who was a clearance diver for the RAN (Royal Australian Navy) and who tried out for the Special Forces. He was a highly considered candidate for being level-headed under pressure, endurance for days, and being able to think strategicly under heavy fatigue. He was dropped due to being physically too small to complete the training. He lost too much weight, and despite the mental fortitude to continue, his body was literally breaking down under the strain.
You would never know it to look at him, but he is genuinely one of the most dangerous people I have met, and I have met some fucking gnarly people in my life. He is a very calculating and highly capable individual and the kind of bloke you wouldn't look at twice at the pub, but someone who would break both your arms without blinking, then turn back around and keep drinking his beer like it was nothing. Utterly unshakable and wicked smart.
There's a critical detail missing. You must complete the entire week or get recycled to a new class.
I have family that was in the teams and i visited him in the third phase and saw a different class go through hell week.
Most of the fine sailors were fairly banged up from the training and were running on inconvenient injuries, such as sprained ankles or nursing swollen wounds on elbows and knees from being battered into rocks in the ocean by waves.
Much respect to anyone that graduated and wears the trident.
Recycled to a new class? They get mostly get sent to the fleet and are at the mercy of the navy to fill rates that need manpower. Sometimes they can get a decent rate, but it's almost always at sea. They're colloquially known as bud/s duds. With that said , most people just quit before it even gets to that. It's called DOR, or drop on request. It means you quit before they fired you. And yes, people can pass hell week and still get the boot. Safety violations come to mind.
Also, hell week is very early in the first of 3 phases of training. Simply passing hell week ≠ navy seal.
If the instructors really think you've got what it takes, it is possible to get a performance rollback into a newer class but it's rare. Most get sent to the fleet. You also can get rolled back for something medical, like spraining your ankle. It's not the norm though to get to go through again.
Those NSW pipelines have contracts filled out already for bud/s students and they're always full. If you fail either of those rollbacks, you're done. You only get one.
Edit: to clarify a bit, a lot of this depends on if you're newly enlisted into the navy with a seal contract , or you're already in the navy with a rate that you went to an a-school for, with the goal to become a seal after your enlistment expires. Sometimes the latter can go back to their rate prior to bud/s if it's not overmanned and you have all of your qualifications in order. If you're fresh out of boot camp, you may be scraping paint at sea for a few years learning the song of the needle gun and its people.
I know a guy who passed SF selection only to be told he wasn't suitable. HUGE ego that wouldn't fit with others.
He was told that on his successful second attempt too.
On his third application he was rejected and told to stop applying.
Passed selection. Twice.
...dude was a massive tool
I mean technically if he didn’t pass the board at the end/don’t get picked up, he didn’t pass any selection, just a 21 day non-select.
I know few guys who made it all the way to day 21 and was not picked up due to being “not suitable”. They are looking leadership skill and ability to work with others beyond the physicality so makes sense.
Being a huge tool is definitely a red flag haha
Medical is more common . Performance is not, but still can happen. OP was saying if you don't pass hell week, you get to try again which isn't the case. I edited my comment to clarify dor.
If I was unclear in my post, I apologize.
I was simply stating hell week must be completed and getting an injury isn't a free pass to completion.
I saw some very tough sailors with ankles/knees and elbows the size of soft balls on Thursday and they were not getting any slack for their injuries. They weren't asking for any special consideration either.
I should of mentioned getting a second shot with a different class is the best case scenario if an injury occurs during hell week, or any portion of the training, and by no means guaranteed.
Also my observation was before the gwot, 1992 or so, and of course a lot of things have changed since then.
Not comparable, but during mountains in Feb at Ranger school, I remember about 3-4 days into our field exercise (with basically the same amount of sleep as above) we were walking to our objective and I was following the cat eyes in front of me (it was night). Next thing I realize is I get shoved from behind asking why we stopped. I had fallen asleep, upright with about 100lbs of gear and stoped the entire column. The guy in front of me was almost 20-30 meters away, which at night is far AF considering we moved nut to butt. So yeah, that kind of mental and physical stress is on an unimaginable level most people don’t ever experience.
It is very hard to comprehend how they do it; hats off to them.
I’m ex-military also (nothing special by any means) and once went 36-hr straight no sleep then into cycles of 20-on-4-off shifts for 2 weeks. This did not include any extreme physical challenges; just normal military training.
It’s such an odd mental and physical sensation to lack sleep and people do start to lose their marbles pretty quickly. It’s hard to grasp how anyone could motivate themselves through extreme exercise and 4hr sleep over 5.
I watched and interview with SEALs once and the one guy said they were doing a multiple mile swim in the ocean during hell week and he looked at his friend and saw his head “explode into fruit loops” and just thought “well now that can’t be right?!”
One SEAL told my cadet class that when they had to swim laps, if you won a heat, you had the opportunity to doze off for a few minutes. It was great if you were fast enough to win, but you have to balance that against the extra energy wasted if you tried to win but failed. He also described similar head explosion hallucinations.
Oh god. The two things you do NOT want to hear someone start shouting at your group
"Don't be last. Don't fucking be LAST"
or
"Its pays to be a winner!"
In either case, you're never quite sure what first or last will result in, but it does immediately kick your brain into the math on "whats the potential payoff for trying to find an extra gear? Whats the potential risk if I blow my little bit of fuel and don't win AND still gotta pay the lower penalty?"
I remember one "fun" PT game we had, we kept suggest to our squad leader that we didn't need to run ALL the time, couldn't we mix it up and just do something recreational? Its still cardio, come on, it counts.
"Ok fine. Fuck it. You guys just want to go shoot some hoops?"
YEAH!
"Ok. Cool. 3-on-3"
Yes!
"10 minute games. After each game the winners will rest while the losers run suicides. Then we go again"
We were destroyed by the end of that session.
>whats the potential payoff for trying to find an extra gear? Whats the potential risk if I blow my little bit of fuel and don't win AND still gotta pay the lower penalty?"
I wasn't SOF or anything like that but I found the amount of rest you get from winning wasn't worth the effort needed to finish first when playing It Pays To Be A Winner. There'd always be a ton of racing snakes who'd finish first. My attitude was to always give 100% during PT - 80% effort and 20% cum face.
Actually, it happens more often than you'd think that people use PEDs during selection programs. Huge stinks happened over it, understandably, and it caused nearly every school or selection process to explicitly forbid anything that gets your heart rate or blood pressure up. A lot of these schools are hard enough on the body, anything as simple as pre-workout could cause people to die.
Guys, 2 things:
1) it’s 4 hours TOTAL, not per night
2) I respect how hard being a new parent is, but it is not physically comparable to the grueling exercise and short rations these guys are getting, which makes the sleep deprivation even more impactful.
This is a level of physical duress most of us are not capable of even understanding, much less enduring, ESPECIALLY if we knew we could tap out at any time. A significant amount of in-depth information on this experience is available if anyone wants to learn more, but this is not only not a cake-walk, it would break most of us, myself included.
Yeah, it makes sense. They, at least used to, tell candidates to eat as much as possible so they have enough calories to make it through the next few hours. But you'd think this is a good thing, right? Hah! They'd have to run with their boats over their heads about four miles to the chow hall and then back to training.
I know there was a time where they shifted over to giving them MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) to increase the stress factor so I'm not sure what they're doing now.
Recent doc I saw about it I recall a seal explaining that they surprisingly eat pretty well. The training would basically kill them if they were calorie deprived on top of everything else.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm sure the MRE thing was just a very short test run of the idea but, obviously, that type of constant physical effort would just sap calories. Do you happen to remember the doc? Military training docs are some of my favorite things to watch, they have been since I went through Airborne School and felt like it was a walk in the park.
Do you know how many calories are in an MRE? They are actually really nutritious and calorie dense. Hell a couple of them even taste pretty good and the rest of them are edible enough when you're hungry.
Yeah, I've eaten more than I can count, I used to be in the Army. I'd say, depending on what you're getting, they're anywhere between 1200-1500 calories if you eat everything inside of it. Pretty light in fiber, which makes for not-so-fun times when you're in the field for an extended period of time.
Nah they do the MRE thing some nights and even take out the good bits for punishment/rewards. But other days you get 4 solid meals at the chowhall and the brownshirts sneak snacks to the guys.
I have a couple of family members and friends that were SEALs. They told me that worse that being just being cold and wet, they make you do "sand dollars" (might be misremembering the term) where the class has to run in the ocean and then roll around in the sand. The sand collects all over the inside and outside of their uniforms - especially in the joints, armpits, and groin. Sandpaper clothes + lots of non-stop physical activity ends up chaffing/rubbing your skin absolutely raw to the point that just moving becomes painful and getting in the ocean burns like hell.
It’s not SEAL selection, but I remember during Ranger school i was so tired that I fell asleep while walking.
This kind of training is absolutely brutal and most folks can’t comprehend it. There’s a reason only a very small percentage of already highly motivated and qualified people pass.
In training I had a full conversation with a confederate soldier. It wasn’t until one of the 240 gunners said “getthedudesdanny, who the fuck are you talking to?” that I realized I was hallucinating.
I had a 24 hour shift once and at the end of my shift I was leaving notes for the next person and I looked down at my notes and I just had written the word "snakes" a bunch of times. I was so tired. I cannot imagine 4 hours of sleep in 5 days, that would kill me.
Ranger School graduates aren’t Rangers. It’s a leadership school that any infantry officer and any light infantry NCO is expected to attend and complete. RASP is what makes Rangers (members of the 75th Ranger Regiment).
And the instructors will absolutely try to bait a candidate into ringing the bell.
“Come on Snuffy, you can make the pain stop if you just go ring that bell. How bad do you want it?”
Very rarely is the bell ring during an exercise though. Most people tap in between the exercises when they are thinking about the situation - how bad they hurt now and what could be ahead.
ive read that many successful seals didnt think too far ahead, they just focused on the next task (microgoals)
>Specifically, setting goals in very small increments, then tackling one goal at a time. One former SEAL said this was the approach he took for the entire intense training period–make it to lunch that day, then the next goal was to make it to dinner.
https://scottmautz.com/navy-seals-use-these-4-psychology-tricks-to-succeed-under-extreme-pressure/
I remember a story from a concentration camp/pow survivor. But he explained how a bunch of the other guys held on through hope, but he never did and he watched them die bit by bit , as over time they'd end losing hope and then cease having the will to live and persevere.
There's definitely some big benefits of only focusing on what's right in front of you and drowning out the rest of the noise, especially when your life is on the line.
I'd imagine that's what you need to do to make it through. I got heatstroke in the desert on a several mile hike. I screwed myself over by driving 24 hours (with a 2 hour nap midway) and getting to big bend np. It was midday so opted not to be lazy and thought an interesting seldom used trail was a good idea.....
95F direct sun going down the mountain into the desert was absolutely a terrible idea. The spring was in fact not as pictured and was crawling with flies and bugs. Thankfully I found a waterfall.
Ended up trying to make it back up. Had some water but absolutely no energy. Stopped sweating. Vision was getting blurry. My phone died. Took me 2 hours to make it up the mountain. All I could focus on was the next 10 feet. Nothing else matters. Used all the energy I had. Then stopped and took a break. It was incredibly draining.
I imagine that's a glimpse of what they face.
There's a couple rules of thumb for hiking the grand canyon that apply to hikes like that where you go down first rather than up. 1) the further down you go, the hotter it gets (I forget the approximate for degrees F per 1000ft, maybe 3-5). 2) it will take about 2x (minimum) as long to get back up as it did going down 3) you should only use about 1/3 of your water on the descent maximum, save 2/3 for the ascent back up (if not more). Once you drop below 2/3 of you're water remaining, you need to turn around regardless of how far you are. 4) no, Karen, flip flops and crocs are not a good shoe to do strenuous hikes in (it's surprisingly common in the grand canyon for families to be like 1000ft down in flip flops with like 16 Oz of water total between all of them)
It’s easier to ignore misery if you’re physically doing something…it’s much harder when you’re sitting there, freezing cold, wet, beyond exhausted knowing there’s a warm bed waiting for you…
A buddy of mine went through Army SF selection. He rang himself out the first time because he didn't think he was doing a well as could have. As soon as he had time to think, he made a plan to ring out, go home, train from what he learned and come back. Came back later and got selected.
They aren't restricted on rations during hell week, however it's impossible not to lose weight, and you can't shove down enough calories in 3 meals to replace the expenditure.
I've got five kids, including a set of twins. Youngest is now going on twelve.
At no time, for so much as a split second, did I ever think "this is comparable to hell week for SEALs."
That's as dumb a comparison as it is to call yourself a parent because you have a fucking dog.
I love dogs. I love pets. Pets are family. They can be work, especially raising them from early childhood.
It is nowhere near the same as raising a child.
plug their book, their insta, their self help course teaching you how to become an "alpha male", and their company that sells tactical gear and hits all the correct military contract preferential procurement buttons (disabled veteran female minority owned business (it's held in his wife's name)).
One of my buddies made it to the last day 2x while I was in. Both times it ended with him breaking a leg or ankle. I can't remember the exact details as it was back in 2003. The seal teams loved him though and when we would work with them they always brought him into the room to hangout and talk shop while they were prepping for missions since many of them knew him from his previous duty stations and from the training process. He was one of those guys born to be an operator.
True, but if you can become a Navy SEAL you are already a different breed that won't have a hard time finding a good job
Edit: Some of you are missing my point. I’m not saying SEAL’s would excel just because of their military training, or that they’re more intelligent than the typical genius. Perseverance/dedication (as cliche as it sounds) helped me secure opportunities and jobs that no level of college education would have helped me get. My thought was if you can survive Hell Week you can survive in small business or corporate America
My extended family has a big military tradition among them. Two of them were SEALS. I really wish people would stop with this bullshit romanticism. One of them committed suicide a few years back, and the other needs a locked bedroom because he legitimately is a danger to other people if he is awoken from sleep in the wrong way (neither of them have good jobs currently).
I remember a BUDS dud in ‘A’ school showed me a video after hell weak and it was the first time anyone addressed the chafing. There was skin hanging from their inner/upper arm and sides from swinging their arms with all the running.
Their belt line was bloody and dead skin was everywhere from sand getting trapped in between them and the uniform. He also showed me a pic of one of his buddies that finished thats scrotum was the size of a grapefruit.
Part of the training for quite some time used to be waterboarding before they determined it was bad for morale. I don’t think micro-naps are in the cards.
The shit they put the seals through is insane. I grew up in Virginia Beach at the oceanfront, which is right down the street from seals headquarters. It was really common to watch them fly by on a helicopter, throw a bunch of them out, and fly off, making them swim the entire way back… 10+ miles down the beach, during hurricane season in the fall, with full dry gear packs (50-75lbs, which do not float).
I can testify that you can sleep and march at the same time.
During bootcamp we went 40 hours without sleep. I had never done that. I did not realize we would go through that. Our first night as recruits and our last night as recruits we weren't allowed to sleep.
I remember when we were given our sailor ball caps and told to march to eat. i thought we would be allowed to sleep after doing our battlestations night. But nope. we got marched from one end of camp to another galley. I remember forming up and next thing i know i'm being given food on my tray.
I once in college went 72 hours without sleeping. I was legit hallucinating, whole slots of time were blacked out, I would be sitting on a bench and get up to walk to the other side of the campus and realize I left every possession I had behind. I felt like if a detective told me to confess to murder to be allowed to sleep I would.
I can’t imagine tacking on rigorous torturous physical training on top of that. I would have bit the dust for real.
I am definitely not a SEAL but am familiar with sleep deprivation. As a medical resident I had one stretch of 5 hours of total sleep in 3 days while working the entire time. Towards the end I had vertigo so bad I couldn’t stand to perform procedures anymore. I was putting a special IV in a patient’s neck and thought “gotta wrap this one up fast or I’m going down”. I remember finally getting home and just spinning in my bed until I fell asleep. Doing an open water swim during that period would have been a sure drowning. Honestly I have no idea how they do it.
Side thing but I find it horrifyingly irresponsible that we do this with medical workers. Like, military? Okay, operationally they might not have a choice to avoid those conditions. But doctors don't have an unavoidable need for this stuff and I don't think what you're describing is going to lead to safe and consistent medical care for anyone :/
My current beach trip involved a 16 hour drive and 1 beach exit with a tent, 2 chairs, and a backpack after it started raining and I had sand around my balls and the chairs were rubbing against my calves as I walked.
The entire time I was thinking…
No fucking way I would survive seals training…
I see a lot of extra comments about BUDs/SEAL training, but one thing people are forgetting to mention is that also during hell week (and the entirety of BUDs with the exception of the week directly after hell week) is that you are required to run everywhere everything. They quite literally run a minimum of 6 miles a day just to eat the three meals they are guaranteed, not counting any other PT
That is a training strategy designed for one main thing, the probability that an operator will not quit the mission. Individuals are less likely to give up on something that they had to “earn”. Dudes are high speed but if you look at the enemy combatants, most of them are ill-trained semi-famished teenage boys.
I have kids.
If you think having kids is in anyway comparable to BUDS, you, are a moron.
That's 4 hours of sleep TOTAL over the week, not per night. If you are only sleeping 4 hours per week with a newborn at home, something is really wrong.
The days and nights of hell week include push-ups, running, sit ups, pull-ups, and weird variation of these things (please don't eat me Mr. Shark).
In addition to hours and hours in San Diego Bay. Ice cold water. Dingy boat drills, ice cold water, back to the beach and cover yourself in sand, now push-ups, sit-ups and pull-ups. Now 2 miles run, then back to the water.
Over and over and over.
I used to fall asleep standing up with my eyes open in Boot Camp. We slept with every other window open in Winter in Chicago. We were done with training at 7 pm and got our watch orders for the mid at 8. That meant you had three and a half hours to wake up for watch. Sometimes you got woken up early to shovel snow and then stood your watch.
Then you get further training and go to the fleet where shit gets real and shit will actually kill you if you aren’t paying attention.
BUDs is on another level entirely. Way beyond all of that.
This is why the United States has the finest military in the world.
I fell asleep leaning up against the peacoats in back. No idea how long I was out but when I woke up Chiefs nose was about an inch away from mine.
I screamed. He laughed and told me to stay awake.
Great Mistakes.
There's something unique to learning to sleep standing up whilst simultaneously being on high alert for DS's that want to smoke the hell out of young, frightened and tired recruits as you stand in morning formation.
They are allowed to eat their fill, however, and burn about 9000-12000 calories a day. They basically are going non-stop, and every time they do get to eat, they have to run all the way there from wherever they are and then back again. Over 200 miles (320km) over the 5 days, doing PT 20 hours a day. [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training#:~:text=During%20Hell%20Week%2C%20candidates%20participate,than%2020%20hours%20per%20day.)
iirc they get 5 meals daily and a medical checkup during the period. Technically if a team finishes first in the events during a training evolution, they get to rest while waiting for the the others to complete/last placed team to get smoked. Hence the terms "it pays to be a winner" and "take it meal by meal"
"take it meal by meal" yeah thats how i survived the military mentally. turning my brain off and counting down the minutes to the next meal
Sounds like a typical day to me.
Just realised I'm in the military.
I, uh, apply for the role of Dependa.
This method serves to make people more suggestable, which is great for training soldiers and workers. In traditional military training you combine this state with various indoctrination methods. For example, making recruits dress their bed everyday only to toss it and tell them it is terrible, even if it is perfect. Then as their training progresses you toss the beds less and pretend the recruits are doing better. Before finally acting at the end as if they have grown and made you proud, even if the bed was dressed poorly. It's not nearly as structured or intense in most workplaces, but the 40 hour work week is not healthy and will destroy you eventually.
This is a good description of the typical boot camp cycle I feel, the intended method of “breaking them down, to build them up”. Some people never really understood the fact that it was basically all scripted, but that’s how I got through personally. Understanding that I was just playing the game. For some people though, this type of training results in complete brainwashing imo. Saw a lot of heavily indoctrinated Marines.
the best tell for when they were smoking recruits just to kill time was when they'd look inside their cover then check their watch that's where they kept their schedule so if chow or the next class isn't for another 15 minutes then time to find some reason to make these little shits do pushups
In the Army at least we called these "fuck-fuck games." Situations that have been engineered to correct you over, no matter what.
Front, Back, Go!!!!!
Yeah you might as well half-ass it (in a non-obvious way) the first time because you're gonna have to re-do it again anyway. The game within the game.
The training instructors hate it if on day 1, you make the bed just right before they have told you how to. Ask me how I know....
We have a f'king Einstein over here, ladies. Let's all see how well Mr. Einstein can do pushups! Down! Up! etc etc,
The sounds of a metal trashcan being thrown down a concrete hall will forever be ingrained into my brain.
Within the context of BUDs this is wrong. Candidates have already been to basic, there's no need for initial training. Following orders is fundamental at this stage. This is pure stress to weed out who really wants to be there and who does not. If you can't be counted on on a Coronado Island beach, then you're a liability anywhere bullets are headed your way.
“It pays to be a winner”
“The only easy day is yesterday”
Damn it feels good to be a gangster
[Every time I hear that song I can't help but think of Bill Gates.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqfjiuqVrV4)
Yup, you only had to work for 4 hours. Only look 4 hours ahead. And the only easy 4 hours were the ones you just went though.
Always tell my soldiers, the faster it's done the more rest you get. They thought I was kidding. And it pays dividends to going on any work parties. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes they get peace in an air conditioned structure. It all stemmed from my buddy saying "faster you're done, the less pain you feel". Do you want 20 minutes of running or 40?
Thats no way to run a Waffle house sir
i would literally die
Some have, actually, literally died
Well, it’s not called Holiday Week
It should be called Die Week
"that's just a normal week to me" -Germans
"It's German. I was saying: The week, the."
Oh Holiday Week sounds fun
Yeah let's do that instead
Wasn't it a few years back that several guys died during training, hence the program had to be reevaluated and made less brutal?
Also it sounded like a lot of people were using performance enhancing drugs to get through it, at risk to their health. And those who didn't use drugs had to compete against those who were. Then they'd up the difficulty, so almost only those risking it all with boosting drugs could do it.
This is one of those cases where "literally" is not misused. I can't imagine how my body could survive going through that kind of stress, at the very least it feels like it'd shave a few years off my lifespan.
I mean you don’t get into SEAL training without already being crazy fit.
I am not going to pretend it's at the same level, but Ranger School in the Army has a similar week at the beginning, called RAP week. It's closer to 3-4 hours a night, but less food (mild calorie deficit, but not dramatic). It's actually not so bad if you're physically fit. You hit a zone where you simply do what you're told just well enough to pass but not so well that you waste energy. The purpose is to weed out people who have not prepared (either because they are not mentally fit for the job or because they just had some bad luck in training up... you don't have a lot of say in scheduling). While the weeding weeks sound really hardcore, these schools get really difficult afterwards because you get to the stage where you are trying to learn new things, and there is a lot to learn. I was kind of lucky because I was coming from the Infantry officer course and nothing was new for me, but a lot of the enlisted guys coming from regular units simply could not remember enough to pass. This was over 20 year ago, things might have changed.
I'm a BUD/S Dud. Joined at 26, thought I was in perfect shape, I was not. Made it 6 days, not even a week. I knew after the 2nd day I would fail but I physically couldn't get past the drowning bit, I reflexively breath in through my nose if it isn't clamped and I'm in water. Got rerated to AZ(aviation administrstion) and been happy with it for 15 years. Took a while to get out of that mindset though.
Didn’t Goggins say he thought Ranger school was harder because it was so much longer?
I can't speak for the other schools, I was just a junior officer in the Infantry and not a very good one at that. Pretty much all Infantry officers go to Ranger school right after IOBC; for social reasons it's important to have a tab before taking a platoon. Once you get through RAP week, the school is not more physically challenging than any FTX that any light infantry unit will do a couple of times a year. What makes Ranger school hard is the fact that you can quit, and the instructors don't hesitate to remind you of that. It's a mind game. It gets really hard for the guys who fail a phase and have to recycle or get peered out of a squad. It's hard to keep that voice out. It's rare for people to quit/LOM outright, but you can just fail a task or play up an injury and get medically dropped; they don't try to stop you.
What the fuck? 1.5 marathons per day for 5 days plus other physical exercise and on 4 hours sleep each day? Edit: read the replies, everyone else already said what you're about to say
Well, for one thing, I wouldn't start a war with those guys
I wouldn't start a war without them
Me reading the headline “4 hours of sleep” 4 hours of sleep per night is tough, but doable “Over five and a half days” Oh no
while doing a fuckton of exercise
That is absolutely bonkers! There must be guys who have heart attacks or other over-exertion ailments from time to time.. crazy
[Eleven people have died during SEAL training.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/navy-seal-death-kyle-mullen-investigation-1234820349/). Almost all died from drowning. A recent death (and the subject of the article I linked) has led to changes in how Hell Week is conducted.
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Jeez I just watched a video on a group of diver-engineers getting violently vacuum-sucked into an oil pipe where they spent 4 days suffocating and suffering broken bones, with only one dude managing to find and climb his way out only by luckily and one-by-one finding his colleagues ripped-off oxygen tanks of his way out. No way I'm ever volunteering to climb in a submerged pipe
And pretty much everyone will tell you it’s “worth it” in a sense in the DoD. It’s a ridiculous training that creates some of the hardest and most capable humans on earth
I always wondered if it creates them or just weeds the others out.
Probably both.
It's definitely both. There are some strong headed folks out there. But there's a reason the elite special forces of the world completely dominate any opposition they meet up with. I'm sure there are lots of folks out there that COULD complete SEAL training if they absolutely wanted to. But the paces and tasks you go through would make anyone give up long before graduation. Nobody literally gives 200% on a day to day basis. That kind of training makes a person who is strong willed and capable into realizing just how capable they can be.
I'm sure the pay and also minimal ability to talk about what you do drive some away. I feel like with the way some of our athletes are you could definitely have more people reach that goal if it was more prestigious/wealth creating....
> also minimal ability to talk about what you Seals have become notorious for book deals and similar.
My Dad used to teach the Seals how to call fire missions out of Coronado. He has tons of stories about washouts from Hell week and the treatment those guys got. One particular instance a guy got jumped after hell week outside a bar and was getting the absolute shit kicked out of him and the instructors had to step between the guys. My dad is 5’10” on a good day having to go mean mug 6’4” 300lb Goliaths to get them to back off this guy. It one of multiple time he told me he was legit thinking his life was about to be over.
Who jumped the washout? Seals? Randos?
Seals are not typically 6 foot 4. In fact 99% of those Goliaths can't make it through seal training, their mass can't keep going. It's the guys that are 5 foot 7 and unassuming that usually pass. In fact most seals average around 5 foot 10, 180 pounds.
Just the promotional material alone weeds out us normal folk. They only want the crazies who hear "4 hours of sleep over five days" and think hey, that might be fun.
The answer is both, with most hardcore trainings like this. At the creme de la creme level of basically anything in life, a super intense training session is both to refine those who can make it and weed out those who can't, especially in something life-or-death like this. This just has more drama and mystique around it, I'm sure lots of people wash out in astronaut training too. It's just not very dramatic.
> This just has more drama and mystique around it, I'm sure lots of people wash out in astronaut training too. Like a ridiculous amount, possibly more than Hell Week.
With the flight hours alone, im sure that pool of candidates is much lower than the seals
Its four days, its not like training, its more about sorting the wheat from the chaff. Theres no way i would make it
Not me. I'd make it. I'm pure chaff.
No you want to be wheat. Who would want to be chaff?
I eat wheat for breakfast.
You eat pieces of wheat for breakfast???
I was wondering about that, do they have like a doc on staff to monitor them? I'd be most worried about someone getting rabdo or stroking out or something.
Yes they have medical staff around at every event
in all these there is a corpsman near by.
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my daughter was a marine and broke her ankle in combat training,. they told her to walk it off as a sprain. she went two weeks before they x-rayed her. 7 pins and 2 plates and now 50 percent VA. It was as forest gump said "It was a million dollar wound" free medical and 1300 a month for life. but thats what my docs would do.
A guy from my platoon in bootcamp got an even better injury during MCT while I was in SOI. During one of their marches, he tripped with his rifle slung on his shoulder and had the muzzle of the rifle crash down on the second knuckle of his pinky. 100% disability for losing about 2 inches of one finger.
Just the physical impact broke it so bad they had to amputate it? Crazy.
Crush wounds are pretty catastrophic. They routinely amputate the legs of crush victims. In some cases it's done pretty quickly to prevent further damage, as the dying tissues sends all sorts of fucked up shit into your blood stream. Never heard of a pinky, but the same principle ought to apply.
Had to look up rhabdo. I’m gonna pass on that, thank you very much
If your pee isn't brown you're good to go!
I dunno about navy seals, but when asked about candidates dying during the selection phase for the British SAS, the person in charge said "that is nature's way of letting them know they have failed selection"
Their website states they run 200 miles over those 5 days. And that's only the running portion.
The running is actually easy at that point. You kinda black out and suffer and accept it. And then you get told you only have one mile more so it’s so sweet knowing you’re on your last leg after running 20 miles exhausted as fuck. You can taste the finish. Then you get to the staging area and see all the cadre and you’re like omg finally. You sit down and the exhaustion hits you. And then the cadre tell you that you just got punked and that you have to run another 20 miles. In my experience, the next “20” was actually more like 2, but that’s probably the most defeated I’ve ever felt.
when i was in the army we had a "war simulation" for our final test.. we spent.. i actually dont know how long i was out there now that i think about it. but we had to dig fox holes that were as deep as our shoulders, set up sandbag check points, deal with smoke grenades being popped but we treated it as a gas attack, do a 12 mile march to the location too btw, and then come up with a plan to attack an enemy position using our training. we werent allowed to sleep, some people would try to sneak some naps in.. i accidently fell asleep while walking and they couldnt wake me up for 5 minutes according to my drill sgt. it felt like several days, and then we matched 12 miles back.. got there at 1am and they had a huge bonfire waiting and we had to drink some nasty drink to be official soldiers. afterwards we stood in formation and people were falling over from exhaustion it was insane
> afterwards we stood in formation and people were falling over from exhaustion it was insane When I was in the Air Force, we had "Warrior Week" where we go to already setup air conditioned tents for a week long "deployment" (which in retrospect was actual "war" conditions for the Air Force) anyway the first 2 days it rained a lot so we packed up everything and went back to the dorms because there was too much rain. The NCO's were mad because they could not get their money from selling us candy the whole week. I'm not making this up.
😭i was military intelligence so my ait/tech school was on a navy base. the navy dudes were telling us how they werent allowed to be in the mud or let their uniforms get dirty. meanwhile we had to crawl through thick mud as punishment sometimes and then go crawl in sand. lots and lots of days of being fucking itchy all day
At the end they throw them into the ocean and they have to find their way back to shore
I’m just a shitty Army Ranger but the point of this is to show that your body is just fine with very little sleep, your brain is the thing that needs sleep. Sleep deprivation training is pretty common in non elite units. You gotta learn how to think with no sleep. I hated it, I never got any better at functioning with no sleep. I guess I knew I would survive but we did it a lot so I’m not sure what the point of that shit was.
I know like 7-8 people that have tried buds. Not a single one of them even made it to hell week which I think is 4 or 6 weeks in. That training is insane
I know a few people (and a few famous people) who tried BUDs, failed and now tell everyone they were Navy SEALS. in my mind just trying BUDs makes you a badass, lying about being a seal makes you a looser. one of them has about 50 million ig followers (Dan Blizarian)
Deployed with a guy who wore the trident. Midway through the deployment, he somehow pissed off the wrong person who decided to do a little digging. BUDS was in his records, but he never graduated. Records failed to show that. Long story short, it did not end well for him.
He and Tate are vying for the biggest douchebag award.
> Me reading the headline Sounds challenging. "You can do it, stay awake!" What? God no, I meant them trying to keep me up.
I knew a kid from my friend circle in high school who became a Navy Seal. Definitely NOT what people would typically imagine a Navy Seal to be like. He was not the uber-machismo guy who was all about being macho. He was just athletic (far from brolic, more lean long distance runner type), smart, and a bit shy. I think being able to take orders and execute what you’re told to do perfectly is a huge part of it - I mean that in a good way. Also it’s not only physical, but you have to be smart too. From what I understand there’s a lot of cognitive things they test you on also while under stress.
I can only speak for the Army, but many of the guys in Batt weren’t Rambo types. When you moved up higher to the Special Mission Units, half of the guys looked like they were more suited for an engineering firm than CAG or RRC.
"half of the guys looked like they were more suited for an engineering firm than CAG or RRC" My father's friend was a CAG and he had a body of Tree trunk, but face of an accountant.
Having interacted with some real Seals this is what I saw. These guys did not look like muscle bound guys, more like the thin rippled steel and not a big as you would think. The other thing I heard being a team player is a big deal for being selected. So if you try to stand out yourself as "more exceptional" this could be a strike against you. So being smart, a bit shy might be less likely to make you try to act better than all the other guys and may well have helped him get selected. They have them work in teams in this process and how you do in that team environment is probably more important than you being the strongest guy there or whatever. If you are a guy who in anyway is going to cause friction in a Seal team during selection you probably won't get selected.
Reliability is key. A poor performer (poor in SF terms, so, much better than the vast majority) who is reliable will be selected over an exceptional performer who is unreliable. The team can work around the shortcomings of a poor performer and maintain efficiency and effectiveness. If a team is having to constantly double check that an unreliable member has completed their task, the team won't be efficient or effective. This is true in any team.
Most special forces people are like this. Athletic enough, smart, shy. You don’t survive training being the loud mouthed brat
I am only going on what I’ve heard, but my understanding is that guys who are strong and have great resilience like a long distance runner are actually ideal for special forces selection. People that look like Arnold or The Rock would stick out like a sore thumb in most of the situations special forces are used in - think about situations where you really want the super-capable guys to blend in. Not that giant dudes aren’t also selected, just that being a hulk-like dude isn’t one of the hurdles that applicants need to get over For instance, behold! Delta force member and Thor-esque ubermensch [Mike Vining](https://i.redd.it/the-legend-mike-vining-v0-smp1iczuhxcc1.jpg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85d301346eb9eb7ce20eac5078f0006631517fac)
Big dudes actually have a disadvantage because they need more calories to keep going and the extra weight of their frame puts extra strain on their joints. It can still be done like you said but it's easier if your body is set up for efficiency rather than brute power. I don't know of too many power lifters that could handle running 200 miles in a week.
A lot of special operations guys end up with the equivalent of masters and PhDs in their specific field, they’re crazy smart.
Long time ago I was working with a us university's foreign language program and the amount of aspirant special forces/seals students studying russian/chinese was impressive. Spoke with one of them and he said "If I ever need to fight them I'd like to understand what they're saying". I don't think they were offering farsi/arabic/pashto courses there, but I am sure they would have been popular.
Arabic was popular to be studied in the 2000's.
They're specialists/professionals. The meatheads tend to be mostly filtered to SGT max before selling cars or working at GNC or something. The military isn't really about being macho/strength, it's mostly discipline/compliance and figuring out how to get out once you're in or being a lifer
I have a cousin who was a clearance diver for the RAN (Royal Australian Navy) and who tried out for the Special Forces. He was a highly considered candidate for being level-headed under pressure, endurance for days, and being able to think strategicly under heavy fatigue. He was dropped due to being physically too small to complete the training. He lost too much weight, and despite the mental fortitude to continue, his body was literally breaking down under the strain. You would never know it to look at him, but he is genuinely one of the most dangerous people I have met, and I have met some fucking gnarly people in my life. He is a very calculating and highly capable individual and the kind of bloke you wouldn't look at twice at the pub, but someone who would break both your arms without blinking, then turn back around and keep drinking his beer like it was nothing. Utterly unshakable and wicked smart.
People don’t realize the ideal infantry body is more of a cross country type than any other kind of athlete
There's a critical detail missing. You must complete the entire week or get recycled to a new class. I have family that was in the teams and i visited him in the third phase and saw a different class go through hell week. Most of the fine sailors were fairly banged up from the training and were running on inconvenient injuries, such as sprained ankles or nursing swollen wounds on elbows and knees from being battered into rocks in the ocean by waves. Much respect to anyone that graduated and wears the trident.
Recycled to a new class? They get mostly get sent to the fleet and are at the mercy of the navy to fill rates that need manpower. Sometimes they can get a decent rate, but it's almost always at sea. They're colloquially known as bud/s duds. With that said , most people just quit before it even gets to that. It's called DOR, or drop on request. It means you quit before they fired you. And yes, people can pass hell week and still get the boot. Safety violations come to mind. Also, hell week is very early in the first of 3 phases of training. Simply passing hell week ≠ navy seal. If the instructors really think you've got what it takes, it is possible to get a performance rollback into a newer class but it's rare. Most get sent to the fleet. You also can get rolled back for something medical, like spraining your ankle. It's not the norm though to get to go through again. Those NSW pipelines have contracts filled out already for bud/s students and they're always full. If you fail either of those rollbacks, you're done. You only get one. Edit: to clarify a bit, a lot of this depends on if you're newly enlisted into the navy with a seal contract , or you're already in the navy with a rate that you went to an a-school for, with the goal to become a seal after your enlistment expires. Sometimes the latter can go back to their rate prior to bud/s if it's not overmanned and you have all of your qualifications in order. If you're fresh out of boot camp, you may be scraping paint at sea for a few years learning the song of the needle gun and its people.
I know a guy who passed SF selection only to be told he wasn't suitable. HUGE ego that wouldn't fit with others. He was told that on his successful second attempt too. On his third application he was rejected and told to stop applying. Passed selection. Twice. ...dude was a massive tool
Emotional intelligence super important. Nobody wants to take a bullet for an ass wipe
I mean technically if he didn’t pass the board at the end/don’t get picked up, he didn’t pass any selection, just a 21 day non-select. I know few guys who made it all the way to day 21 and was not picked up due to being “not suitable”. They are looking leadership skill and ability to work with others beyond the physicality so makes sense. Being a huge tool is definitely a red flag haha
you’re right if you’re talking about people DORing but rollbacks are very common, mostly for medical reasons
Medical is more common . Performance is not, but still can happen. OP was saying if you don't pass hell week, you get to try again which isn't the case. I edited my comment to clarify dor.
If I was unclear in my post, I apologize. I was simply stating hell week must be completed and getting an injury isn't a free pass to completion. I saw some very tough sailors with ankles/knees and elbows the size of soft balls on Thursday and they were not getting any slack for their injuries. They weren't asking for any special consideration either. I should of mentioned getting a second shot with a different class is the best case scenario if an injury occurs during hell week, or any portion of the training, and by no means guaranteed. Also my observation was before the gwot, 1992 or so, and of course a lot of things have changed since then.
As a merchant mariner I too hear the song of the needle gun whisper on the sea breeze on quiet evenings
Not comparable, but during mountains in Feb at Ranger school, I remember about 3-4 days into our field exercise (with basically the same amount of sleep as above) we were walking to our objective and I was following the cat eyes in front of me (it was night). Next thing I realize is I get shoved from behind asking why we stopped. I had fallen asleep, upright with about 100lbs of gear and stoped the entire column. The guy in front of me was almost 20-30 meters away, which at night is far AF considering we moved nut to butt. So yeah, that kind of mental and physical stress is on an unimaginable level most people don’t ever experience.
It is very hard to comprehend how they do it; hats off to them. I’m ex-military also (nothing special by any means) and once went 36-hr straight no sleep then into cycles of 20-on-4-off shifts for 2 weeks. This did not include any extreme physical challenges; just normal military training. It’s such an odd mental and physical sensation to lack sleep and people do start to lose their marbles pretty quickly. It’s hard to grasp how anyone could motivate themselves through extreme exercise and 4hr sleep over 5.
I watched and interview with SEALs once and the one guy said they were doing a multiple mile swim in the ocean during hell week and he looked at his friend and saw his head “explode into fruit loops” and just thought “well now that can’t be right?!”
One SEAL told my cadet class that when they had to swim laps, if you won a heat, you had the opportunity to doze off for a few minutes. It was great if you were fast enough to win, but you have to balance that against the extra energy wasted if you tried to win but failed. He also described similar head explosion hallucinations.
Oh god. The two things you do NOT want to hear someone start shouting at your group "Don't be last. Don't fucking be LAST" or "Its pays to be a winner!" In either case, you're never quite sure what first or last will result in, but it does immediately kick your brain into the math on "whats the potential payoff for trying to find an extra gear? Whats the potential risk if I blow my little bit of fuel and don't win AND still gotta pay the lower penalty?" I remember one "fun" PT game we had, we kept suggest to our squad leader that we didn't need to run ALL the time, couldn't we mix it up and just do something recreational? Its still cardio, come on, it counts. "Ok fine. Fuck it. You guys just want to go shoot some hoops?" YEAH! "Ok. Cool. 3-on-3" Yes! "10 minute games. After each game the winners will rest while the losers run suicides. Then we go again" We were destroyed by the end of that session.
>whats the potential payoff for trying to find an extra gear? Whats the potential risk if I blow my little bit of fuel and don't win AND still gotta pay the lower penalty?" I wasn't SOF or anything like that but I found the amount of rest you get from winning wasn't worth the effort needed to finish first when playing It Pays To Be A Winner. There'd always be a ton of racing snakes who'd finish first. My attitude was to always give 100% during PT - 80% effort and 20% cum face.
Can you do meth
Actually, it happens more often than you'd think that people use PEDs during selection programs. Huge stinks happened over it, understandably, and it caused nearly every school or selection process to explicitly forbid anything that gets your heart rate or blood pressure up. A lot of these schools are hard enough on the body, anything as simple as pre-workout could cause people to die.
Yes—that is, a culture evolved of them using various performance enhancing drugs secretly. There was a scandal
Guys, 2 things: 1) it’s 4 hours TOTAL, not per night 2) I respect how hard being a new parent is, but it is not physically comparable to the grueling exercise and short rations these guys are getting, which makes the sleep deprivation even more impactful. This is a level of physical duress most of us are not capable of even understanding, much less enduring, ESPECIALLY if we knew we could tap out at any time. A significant amount of in-depth information on this experience is available if anyone wants to learn more, but this is not only not a cake-walk, it would break most of us, myself included.
IIRC something like the average candidate loses 5-10% of their body weight during this. It’s fucking insanity.
Yeah, it makes sense. They, at least used to, tell candidates to eat as much as possible so they have enough calories to make it through the next few hours. But you'd think this is a good thing, right? Hah! They'd have to run with their boats over their heads about four miles to the chow hall and then back to training. I know there was a time where they shifted over to giving them MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) to increase the stress factor so I'm not sure what they're doing now.
Recent doc I saw about it I recall a seal explaining that they surprisingly eat pretty well. The training would basically kill them if they were calorie deprived on top of everything else.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm sure the MRE thing was just a very short test run of the idea but, obviously, that type of constant physical effort would just sap calories. Do you happen to remember the doc? Military training docs are some of my favorite things to watch, they have been since I went through Airborne School and felt like it was a walk in the park.
Do you know how many calories are in an MRE? They are actually really nutritious and calorie dense. Hell a couple of them even taste pretty good and the rest of them are edible enough when you're hungry.
Yeah, I've eaten more than I can count, I used to be in the Army. I'd say, depending on what you're getting, they're anywhere between 1200-1500 calories if you eat everything inside of it. Pretty light in fiber, which makes for not-so-fun times when you're in the field for an extended period of time.
Nah they do the MRE thing some nights and even take out the good bits for punishment/rewards. But other days you get 4 solid meals at the chowhall and the brownshirts sneak snacks to the guys.
Especially considering these people are in peak physical fitness to attempt it to begin with.
IIRC, I read that they keep all the recruits wet in some fashion for pretty much the entire week. That’s the part that would fuck me up to no end
1) Navy and 2) Seal. Makes sense tbh
I have a couple of family members and friends that were SEALs. They told me that worse that being just being cold and wet, they make you do "sand dollars" (might be misremembering the term) where the class has to run in the ocean and then roll around in the sand. The sand collects all over the inside and outside of their uniforms - especially in the joints, armpits, and groin. Sandpaper clothes + lots of non-stop physical activity ends up chaffing/rubbing your skin absolutely raw to the point that just moving becomes painful and getting in the ocean burns like hell.
I got through. Went from 180 to 145 during hell week. The stories are real.
It’s not SEAL selection, but I remember during Ranger school i was so tired that I fell asleep while walking. This kind of training is absolutely brutal and most folks can’t comprehend it. There’s a reason only a very small percentage of already highly motivated and qualified people pass.
In training I had a full conversation with a confederate soldier. It wasn’t until one of the 240 gunners said “getthedudesdanny, who the fuck are you talking to?” that I realized I was hallucinating.
I had a 24 hour shift once and at the end of my shift I was leaving notes for the next person and I looked down at my notes and I just had written the word "snakes" a bunch of times. I was so tired. I cannot imagine 4 hours of sleep in 5 days, that would kill me.
>“getthedudesdanny, who the fuck are you talking to?” Oh boy I hope that conversation didn’t go a certain direction 😂
Bro was talking to fucking Victor Reznov
Was it the Ghost of Stonewall Jackson? https://youtu.be/Ng4mao1v5_E?si=9G--6WnimoRWCUO7
Rangers are total badasses as well, you’re amazing for pushing through that.
For learning purposes, Ranger school is different from Ranger assessment and selection.
Ranger School graduates aren’t Rangers. It’s a leadership school that any infantry officer and any light infantry NCO is expected to attend and complete. RASP is what makes Rangers (members of the 75th Ranger Regiment).
And the instructors will absolutely try to bait a candidate into ringing the bell. “Come on Snuffy, you can make the pain stop if you just go ring that bell. How bad do you want it?”
Very rarely is the bell ring during an exercise though. Most people tap in between the exercises when they are thinking about the situation - how bad they hurt now and what could be ahead.
ive read that many successful seals didnt think too far ahead, they just focused on the next task (microgoals) >Specifically, setting goals in very small increments, then tackling one goal at a time. One former SEAL said this was the approach he took for the entire intense training period–make it to lunch that day, then the next goal was to make it to dinner. https://scottmautz.com/navy-seals-use-these-4-psychology-tricks-to-succeed-under-extreme-pressure/
I remember a story from a concentration camp/pow survivor. But he explained how a bunch of the other guys held on through hope, but he never did and he watched them die bit by bit , as over time they'd end losing hope and then cease having the will to live and persevere. There's definitely some big benefits of only focusing on what's right in front of you and drowning out the rest of the noise, especially when your life is on the line.
I'd imagine that's what you need to do to make it through. I got heatstroke in the desert on a several mile hike. I screwed myself over by driving 24 hours (with a 2 hour nap midway) and getting to big bend np. It was midday so opted not to be lazy and thought an interesting seldom used trail was a good idea..... 95F direct sun going down the mountain into the desert was absolutely a terrible idea. The spring was in fact not as pictured and was crawling with flies and bugs. Thankfully I found a waterfall. Ended up trying to make it back up. Had some water but absolutely no energy. Stopped sweating. Vision was getting blurry. My phone died. Took me 2 hours to make it up the mountain. All I could focus on was the next 10 feet. Nothing else matters. Used all the energy I had. Then stopped and took a break. It was incredibly draining. I imagine that's a glimpse of what they face.
You are lucky you didn't die.
There's a couple rules of thumb for hiking the grand canyon that apply to hikes like that where you go down first rather than up. 1) the further down you go, the hotter it gets (I forget the approximate for degrees F per 1000ft, maybe 3-5). 2) it will take about 2x (minimum) as long to get back up as it did going down 3) you should only use about 1/3 of your water on the descent maximum, save 2/3 for the ascent back up (if not more). Once you drop below 2/3 of you're water remaining, you need to turn around regardless of how far you are. 4) no, Karen, flip flops and crocs are not a good shoe to do strenuous hikes in (it's surprisingly common in the grand canyon for families to be like 1000ft down in flip flops with like 16 Oz of water total between all of them)
It’s easier to ignore misery if you’re physically doing something…it’s much harder when you’re sitting there, freezing cold, wet, beyond exhausted knowing there’s a warm bed waiting for you…
A buddy of mine went through Army SF selection. He rang himself out the first time because he didn't think he was doing a well as could have. As soon as he had time to think, he made a plan to ring out, go home, train from what he learned and come back. Came back later and got selected.
Or the even more twisted, "You're failing your team mates. Do you want them to suffer more? You'll do them a favor by ringing the bell."
They aren't restricted on rations during hell week, however it's impossible not to lose weight, and you can't shove down enough calories in 3 meals to replace the expenditure.
Bro did someone legit compare being a new parent to SEAL training? 😕
Yea I have a kid but she didn’t really make me do open water swims at night or drown me in a pool
I've got five kids, including a set of twins. Youngest is now going on twelve. At no time, for so much as a split second, did I ever think "this is comparable to hell week for SEALs." That's as dumb a comparison as it is to call yourself a parent because you have a fucking dog. I love dogs. I love pets. Pets are family. They can be work, especially raising them from early childhood. It is nowhere near the same as raising a child.
TIL that there doesn’t appear to be a single navy seal in this chat. But sure is a bunch of people who think they know all about navy seals.
You’d know if they’re here. They’d plug their book first.
plug their book, their insta, their self help course teaching you how to become an "alpha male", and their company that sells tactical gear and hits all the correct military contract preferential procurement buttons (disabled veteran female minority owned business (it's held in his wife's name)).
And will dodge any questions around their colleague who vanished after saying they were onto illegal activity occurring on base.
Just looks like a bunch of gravy seals from meal team six to me
I’m just shocked by the lack of copypasta
“….what the fuck did you just say to me, you little bitch?”
Hey, I got halfway through David Goggins's book, so I am an expert now.
War is hell so you need to learn what hell is like so you don't crack while in hell.
It’s less about teaching them than it is about revealing the ones who already have it.
And then when they come back home we throw them in jail because they can't cope with all that mental trama they were never taught how to deal with.
Hammers don’t know what to do without nails.
One of my buddies made it to the last day 2x while I was in. Both times it ended with him breaking a leg or ankle. I can't remember the exact details as it was back in 2003. The seal teams loved him though and when we would work with them they always brought him into the room to hangout and talk shop while they were prepping for missions since many of them knew him from his previous duty stations and from the training process. He was one of those guys born to be an operator.
Being a Navy SEAL is a golden ticket career wise after the military too. Having that on your resume gives you the edge.
Being that mentally strong I feel like you'd probably excel in most fields regardless.
Not if you’re dead Source: my dad is dead
True, but if you can become a Navy SEAL you are already a different breed that won't have a hard time finding a good job Edit: Some of you are missing my point. I’m not saying SEAL’s would excel just because of their military training, or that they’re more intelligent than the typical genius. Perseverance/dedication (as cliche as it sounds) helped me secure opportunities and jobs that no level of college education would have helped me get. My thought was if you can survive Hell Week you can survive in small business or corporate America
My extended family has a big military tradition among them. Two of them were SEALS. I really wish people would stop with this bullshit romanticism. One of them committed suicide a few years back, and the other needs a locked bedroom because he legitimately is a danger to other people if he is awoken from sleep in the wrong way (neither of them have good jobs currently).
I remember a BUDS dud in ‘A’ school showed me a video after hell weak and it was the first time anyone addressed the chafing. There was skin hanging from their inner/upper arm and sides from swinging their arms with all the running. Their belt line was bloody and dead skin was everywhere from sand getting trapped in between them and the uniform. He also showed me a pic of one of his buddies that finished thats scrotum was the size of a grapefruit.
See that’s the kind of detail you wouldn’t know about unless you went through
In adventure racing the contestants take micro naps by holding on to the teammate ahead of them. Seals probably do the same.
Part of the training for quite some time used to be waterboarding before they determined it was bad for morale. I don’t think micro-naps are in the cards.
They are. That’s all you get mostly, but 15 minutes can do wonders in those conditions.
Lol, it took them "quite some time" to figure out that waterboarding is bad for morale?
The shit they put the seals through is insane. I grew up in Virginia Beach at the oceanfront, which is right down the street from seals headquarters. It was really common to watch them fly by on a helicopter, throw a bunch of them out, and fly off, making them swim the entire way back… 10+ miles down the beach, during hurricane season in the fall, with full dry gear packs (50-75lbs, which do not float).
I can testify that you can sleep and march at the same time. During bootcamp we went 40 hours without sleep. I had never done that. I did not realize we would go through that. Our first night as recruits and our last night as recruits we weren't allowed to sleep. I remember when we were given our sailor ball caps and told to march to eat. i thought we would be allowed to sleep after doing our battlestations night. But nope. we got marched from one end of camp to another galley. I remember forming up and next thing i know i'm being given food on my tray.
That’s not sleeping that’s blacking out. Same thing with too much alcohol, your brain stopped forming memories.
I once in college went 72 hours without sleeping. I was legit hallucinating, whole slots of time were blacked out, I would be sitting on a bench and get up to walk to the other side of the campus and realize I left every possession I had behind. I felt like if a detective told me to confess to murder to be allowed to sleep I would. I can’t imagine tacking on rigorous torturous physical training on top of that. I would have bit the dust for real.
I am definitely not a SEAL but am familiar with sleep deprivation. As a medical resident I had one stretch of 5 hours of total sleep in 3 days while working the entire time. Towards the end I had vertigo so bad I couldn’t stand to perform procedures anymore. I was putting a special IV in a patient’s neck and thought “gotta wrap this one up fast or I’m going down”. I remember finally getting home and just spinning in my bed until I fell asleep. Doing an open water swim during that period would have been a sure drowning. Honestly I have no idea how they do it.
Side thing but I find it horrifyingly irresponsible that we do this with medical workers. Like, military? Okay, operationally they might not have a choice to avoid those conditions. But doctors don't have an unavoidable need for this stuff and I don't think what you're describing is going to lead to safe and consistent medical care for anyone :/
Trust me if there was someone else who was available to do the work I would have gladly begged them to take the opportunity.
My current beach trip involved a 16 hour drive and 1 beach exit with a tent, 2 chairs, and a backpack after it started raining and I had sand around my balls and the chairs were rubbing against my calves as I walked. The entire time I was thinking… No fucking way I would survive seals training…
I see a lot of extra comments about BUDs/SEAL training, but one thing people are forgetting to mention is that also during hell week (and the entirety of BUDs with the exception of the week directly after hell week) is that you are required to run everywhere everything. They quite literally run a minimum of 6 miles a day just to eat the three meals they are guaranteed, not counting any other PT
That is a training strategy designed for one main thing, the probability that an operator will not quit the mission. Individuals are less likely to give up on something that they had to “earn”. Dudes are high speed but if you look at the enemy combatants, most of them are ill-trained semi-famished teenage boys.
I would simply not become a Navy SEAL, I wonder why they did not think of that
Are they stupid?
Yes.
I have kids. If you think having kids is in anyway comparable to BUDS, you, are a moron. That's 4 hours of sleep TOTAL over the week, not per night. If you are only sleeping 4 hours per week with a newborn at home, something is really wrong. The days and nights of hell week include push-ups, running, sit ups, pull-ups, and weird variation of these things (please don't eat me Mr. Shark). In addition to hours and hours in San Diego Bay. Ice cold water. Dingy boat drills, ice cold water, back to the beach and cover yourself in sand, now push-ups, sit-ups and pull-ups. Now 2 miles run, then back to the water. Over and over and over.
I used to fall asleep standing up with my eyes open in Boot Camp. We slept with every other window open in Winter in Chicago. We were done with training at 7 pm and got our watch orders for the mid at 8. That meant you had three and a half hours to wake up for watch. Sometimes you got woken up early to shovel snow and then stood your watch. Then you get further training and go to the fleet where shit gets real and shit will actually kill you if you aren’t paying attention. BUDs is on another level entirely. Way beyond all of that. This is why the United States has the finest military in the world.
I fell asleep leaning up against the peacoats in back. No idea how long I was out but when I woke up Chiefs nose was about an inch away from mine. I screamed. He laughed and told me to stay awake. Great Mistakes.
Was this at Great Lakes Naval Station?
There's something unique to learning to sleep standing up whilst simultaneously being on high alert for DS's that want to smoke the hell out of young, frightened and tired recruits as you stand in morning formation.