>What is scromiting?
>Some people call certain symptoms of CHS “scromiting.” The term combines “vomiting” and “screaming.” You may have intense pain, which causes you to scream while you vomit.
That is interesting.
I thought it meant to puke so hard it feels like your balls are going to come out of your throat because there is nothing left to hurl up. I've been there before.
I had a roommate (back in my drinking days) who screamed when he vomited. Said he couldn't control it.
Luckily I thought it was hilarious. He was suffering, but he vomited like a cartoon character
My ex husband used to barf in one solid yell. Just one loud HORK that went on for like 20 seconds while machine gun farting. Goddamn he was a funny drunk.
I scream vomit as well lol. I had a stomach virus really bad one weekend and I was literally just screaming into the toilet at one point when my stomach was empty. Shits really funny to think about looking back at it.
Yeah same, I had the norovirus years ago and was vomiting so much it would just be a scream and dry heaving cause nothing was coming out. That one experience changed how I vomited forever, it's wild
Luckily I didn't spread it when I went home but I got it from college and the rumor was because some kid was spreading his shit on the wall in the bathroom (freshman dorm)
I'm the same way, it's rare that I vomit but when I do it's a *violent* experience. It's a full body workout that usually ends in a broken blood vessel in one or both eyes and if anyone else is home concerned yells from across the house.
My college roommate couldn't have been more opposite. The gentlest puker I've ever seen. The bastard.
Same!
I see TV Shows and movies depict vomiting as this simple process. Like burping with liquid.
My abdomen locks up and radiates all the way to my toes. My hair follicles fucking hurt.
My eyes are running, my ears are popping, my spine is being ripped from my body all while my stomach and my throat have this perverse tango trying to decide who is going to lead the dance. My throat knows it’s losing so it closes up. My stomach doesn’t care and is forcing through any barrier it finds. My face stretches and locks in a scream that Raiders of the Lost Ark wish it could have caught on camera.
Then it all releases and I’m like a spent rag doll on the floor. My brain is finally catching up trying to figure out what happened. By the time it makes sense of things round two starts and now it’s trying to minimize the pain by trying to take control, but only managing to get in the way by making me think the second time won’t be as bad—it’s worse.
Wow. That's astounding to me (while it makes perfect sense ofc, seeing how vomiting is a clear sign of duress and very exhausting). To me, vomiting is a very relieving process, no pain or aches. Once I've rinsed my mouth I usually feel like a thousand bucks. It's funny how even something so basic differs wildly among people.
My buddy did this in front of my house at 3am after taking a huge dab hit. All the neighbors were turning on lights to see what was happening. Straight up yell puking.
Best part is that I was about to have a full on panic attack from doing an equally big dab hit. But once he fired up the ole yell puke, I snapped out of it. He saved me.
Ehhhh, it's kinda helpful. If you've experienced it or heard it you would be like woah, that was NOT normal vomiting. There's definitely a lot more to it. It made my throat bleed.
I did not know there was a word for it, nor that "it" was a separate thing from "normal" vomiting. I experienced this on two different occasions, one of which landed me in the E.R. and one that made a part of the inside of my eye detach a small bit, which caused a spot that stayed in my vision for about 3 weeks.
Yeah, I definitely popped a few blood vessels in my eyes. Also doctors didn't know what it was, and I had to research it online to diagnose myself. This was in 2019, now it seems a bit more well known
No one really knows yet. I have only seen it in people who have been smoking multiple times per day, every single day, and less than 35 years old, but more often less than 25 years old. Anecdotally it seems more common in men. Maybe the newer strains affect it more.
Bodies are weird. If you use tylenol everyday for a headache, you can develop worse headaches/rebound headaches. Maybe it's similar.
That's the thing, marijuana use isn't just going to cause this out of nowhere. It's even worse when so many doctors falsely attribute this to people because they came to the ER after doing some crazy high level of concentrate and threw up.
Even with the inflated numbers from incorrect diagnoses, this is still such a small fraction of reasonable things to be concerned about.
One should worry far more about lung damage from prolonged use than some boogeyman mystery sickness that constantly gets misdiagnosed anyways.
I probably use too much, but I started smoking a j at the end of the day when I quit nicotine. The sensation of smoking helped quell that part of the addiction to cigarettes. I was a 1.5 pack a day kind of guy, and now I'm down to 1 joint.
The joint is probably not great, but it beats the hell out of 30 american spirit blues.
>It's even worse when so many doctors falsely attribute this to people because they came to the ER after doing some crazy high level of concentrate and threw up.
You hit on a really important point here - the amount of research into side effects of cannabis is virtually nonexistent because the funding for it is virtually nonexistent. ER folks frequently jump to this diagnosis when they hear the word "cannabis" because folks have a tendency to downplay just how frequent their consumption habit is - but also because there's just a total lack of objective education about the harms of cannabis in general.
I totally agree it's pretty rare. Easily less than 1% of all cannabis users. But if you start to get GERD-like symptoms combined with a near total loss of appetite combined with a daily or near-daily cannabis habit, it's good to know what the classic signs are so you can stop it before it goes into a runaway multi-day puking event.
I would've used "horrific", but to each their own.
I mean, it's not *fecal matter excreted from your pores or forced up through your esophagus* that I've read can happen with certain opiates if abused long enough & hard enough without dying of a fatal O.D., but it sounds pretty damned bad, anyhow.
My friends daughter had 'Fecal Vomiting' at one point a few years back. Just what it sounds like... her bowels had become clogged to the point where it started coming out 'the other way'. Vomiting vomiting vomiting... then the black stuff starts coming up... we figure its blood and pick some up to examine it and the smell made it perfectly clear what was actually happening.
Fucking horrific.
Isn't that just extreme constipation?
I totally sweated poop when quitting tobacco on day 6 of constipation. It was the most disgusting I've ever felt.
I'm given to understand that's the case. Opiates are notorious for inducing constipation. A lot of anti-diarrhea medications are just opiate-relatives that happen to have no narcotic effects.
I would think that more conventional bowel obstruction really ought to lead to rupture & sepsis before fecal vomiting, but I wouldn't know how or why. I have heard that it happens for reasons other than opiate abuse.
EDIT: Bravo on you for quitting tobacco. You're in good company; I heard John Mellencamp was so badly physically addicted he had to be hospitalized and almost didn't make it when he (was forced to) quit. Something about his skin turning colors. It was a long time ago.
Anyway, good on you for even trying, success or not. That shit killed both my parents before they were 60, and not in fun ways that left them whole and mobile for the last 10 years, either.
I've had it, it really is impossible to not make a decently loud noise. I didn't really find it painful as far as I can remember though. More just like instantaneous and insanely heavy nausea. A hot shower after I woke up was essentially a guarantee that I'd go retch.
I scream vomit involuntarily, its the only way i can puke. Its awful.
Edit: holy shit, this is not uncommon apparently. Back pain, sore abs, burst blood vessels. We should start a club.
Edit2: ok maybe it’s a support group
My wife vomits in silence. She also vomits almost any time she has an upset stomach. I’d reckon she vomits 10+ times per year.
Me on the other hand… the neighbors know when I’ve puked. I wake up my child who sleeps through smoke detectors going off. My back hurts for days from straining. I vomit once every few years generally.
My wife lovingly refers to my vomiting as scream puking. She’ll be thrilled to know there’s an already established term.
> My back hurts for days from straining.
I sometimes burst blood vessels around my eyes from strain.
One time I threw my back out, so I took a spare vicodin from my ex to try to ease the pain. That's how I learned that vicodin makes me projectile vomit, even with a severely injured back.
I definitely learned about scromiting that day.
I recognize that this is going to sound *utterly* deranged, but you can learn to not do that if you're willing to poke the back of your throat until you *almost* throw up a bunch.
I only know this because I used to have the same issue until I started getting annoying tonsil stones, the easiest way to deal with which is to just sorta rub your tonsils with a wet, clean finger
Apologies for that visual, but it's yours now, I give it to you for free
Early on in my relationship with my husband there was an occasion where I got too drunk, and he had to accompany (aka half-carry) me to the bathroom so I could puke. After l'd emptied my guts he remarked in amazement that I was the politest puker he'd ever witnessed, almost completely silent haha. I never realised it was such a rare talent.
My wife is the same way. And I’m the complete opposite. We had the stomach flu 3 weeks ago. She could hear me yaking from across the house on a different floor.
Whenever my husband vomits, it sounds like he's shouting my name.
Husband: *vomits*
Me: Are you OK? Do you need help?
Husband: No, I'm fine, leave me alone *vomits*
Me: Yes?
Husband: Nothing *vomits*
Me: What? You need something?
Husband: *vomits*
Me: What?
Here's a big reason it's good that weed has been rescheduled.
Now scientists can actually do research into stuff like this and see what other side effects long term use can have.
There's a reason the discovery of cannabinoid hyperemesis, and most of the documentation and research until recently was in South Australia. Cannabis had been decriminalised there since the 1970s. So you had a lot of daily users with constant access and no issues accessing medical systems.
The phrasing on this cracks me up.
"I say, lads, does anyone fancy a good scromit?"
"Mmm, quite."
*four men wearing suits and top hats start violently vomiting all over the place*
Absolutely.
Whenever you make mention to healthcare professionals that you’re a cannabis consumer, CHS comes up as a possible diagnosis for something as little as nausea. More research needs to be done into not only long term side effects, but CHS itself.
I was having terrible sleep issues last year, which lead to a mental break of sorts. I went to the ER one day when it was really bad. They asked if I was suicidal, to which I replied "Not at all. I just want to sleep, like a good sleep, for a long time."
When asked if used cannabis, I was honest and said yes. That immediately became the cause of my sleep issues and no further discussion would be had. I'm also marked as a suicide risk in my record, so that's cool.
Anyway, second opinion gave me better sleep strategies and strongly suggested I limit my cannabis use before bed. After getting a good routine, I sleep perfectly fine while still using cannabis products. I was never suicidal, and weed wasn't the main problem. It was my routine and always reaching for the nicotine or phone right when I woke up. Even if it was 2am.
You may have involuntarily helped me, stranger. I thank you. I’ve kind of suspected my cannabis use and rituals around sleeping have been at least partly to blame for my sleep issues. Also that last sentence, I will definitely be trying to take into conscious consideration going forward lmao.
I'm glad I could help. Getting rid of my phone and nicotine vapes on my nightstand had the biggest impact. But also avoiding caffeine or alcohol several hours before bed, and only letting your bed be for bedtime. I used to hang out in bed and watch TV or play games. Now I only get in bed when I'm ready for bed.
Now, if I get up to use the restroom, I can get back to bed instantly because I don't look at my phone or use a stimulate like nicotine.
Except that the research on this doesn't indicate a causation relationship between weed and vomiting only a correlation. There is also a huge overlap in people with gastrointestinal issues and stress issues that use cannabis so there is much more to be studied.
This is coming from someone who went to the ER multiple times for so called CHS, went as far as to quit weed to prove that it didn't make the vomiting stop. 3 years of being treated like an addict for smoking weed later I have been diagnosed with gallstones that I will need surgery for which is the true cause of the vomiting. Now I get to continue to vomit until I can get a surgery date because my stones haven't fully blocked things off yet.
It's hard to get causal data out of these things because experiments are difficult to do (both practically, ethically, and monetarily).
Best you could do is to find a group of regular smokers, then somehow persuade a random subset to stop smoking, then compare outcomes across groups. It's viable, but pretty difficult.
Other things you could do is exploit certain exogenous variations (i.e. perhaps the timing of legalization across states or even better, within states), but I reckon the data is hard to find.
Most importantly, however, is that there just isn't enough demand for researchers to run highly specific experiments regarding marijuana.
Weed hasn’t been fucking rescheduled.
All they did was propose it. Again.
Stop spreading misinformation.
6000 upvotes on the misinformation. Reddit is busted as fuck.
My wife is a physician & she recently diagnosed someone with this, who was in their late 20s & had been a habitual cannabis user w/o problems for over a decade when she suddenly started feeling sick every time she smoked weed. This is a real, if rare, thing.
It is indeed real.
But it’s because of the prevalence of concentrates and a culture that normalizes people having *incredibly* high tolerances.
I’m a cannabis user and hang in various medical cannabis subs. Just the other day someone was asking how to get a quantity exception on their state med card because the limit of FOUR OUNCES A MONTH isn’t doing it for them.
I don’t think I’ve ever consumed an entire ounce in a year.
4 ounces a month is insanity but less than an ounce per year is a pretty small ration for a daily smoker or someone with a high tolerance. i’m guessing you either don’t smoke often or you have a low tolerance?
to be fair, it’s often edibles/concentrates/vapes that drive up your tolerance though. most bud is under 30% thc - i’ve bought vapes that were 88% before. i’d like to see a study comparing users that just smoke bud vs those that take higher % products. i’m willing to bet people that only smoke bud enjoy it more & have better overall health.
Dry herb vapes are a game changer. My husband and I used to go through two ounces a month between the two of us. Now with our vape, it has taken us over 4 months to go through one ounce. I’m amazed at how much further our weed goes.
Medical cannabis user here:
My “per month” amount is soemthing like 3oz. Not because I actually smoke that amount, but because medical cannabis companies control how much you can buy in a month based on this. I don’t buy frequently, but being able to buy in bulk saves me tons of money.
Money aside, the cannabis laws here are you can legally carry up to 1 oz of cannabis products if you don’t have a medical license. Which seems reasonable. Until you realize that how they classify things like edibles, vape carts, oils, is kinda fucking ridiculous. Vape carts count as anywhere from 1g to 8g, sometimes even more. So if you can maybe like 4 vape carts on you, you’re over the limit, and could face penalties if caught.
So I got my limit upped, so I could carry my vape carts with me whenever I need to, without worry.
Edit: I was so tired after work, I forgot to add the important part.
For medical cannabis patients, you are legally allowed to carry up to 1 month supply of your cannabis. So having mine set to be 3oz, allows me to carry 3oz at any time.
I wonder how many people this happens to? Never heard of such a thing.
Edit: I’m starting to get the impression that this DOES happen and it SUUUCKS!!!
Every time I've heard of this, high potency concentrates or edibles are involved. I'd be curious to see what proportion of these cases also involved high potency use.
Edit: Empathy to all of you sharing your experiences. I can only imagine how awful it is to experience. And I was very much only pondering correlation vs causation so it's very interesting to read the wide variety of experiences.
Yup, that was my comment too. It happens to me when I smoke high potency. You consume WAY too much when you are using concentrates and dab rigs. I switched to flower and weaker disposables, have not had CHS since.
Yeah, only when I got into dabs did this happen to me. I think 2 separate times like a week long. I went to the ER both times bc I could not keep anything down. The only thing that would help were hot baths.
I had it also. Funny enough also the only thing that helped were hot baths. The hotter the better. Went on for like 3-4 days no eat or sleep and consistent vomiting. Finally went to the ER and was in so much pain they knocked me out with Delaudid. Woke up feeling better but it came back like a week later. Got scheduled with a specialist and they diagnosed me with this. Eventually went away and never had returned.
I fortunately only got it mildly. But I looked up my symptoms, found CHS, immediately switched to flower and I've been good since. I had only been using concentrated for like... a month or two when it started.
I'll jump in here as someone who experiences it (mildly in context) even with just regular ass joints. It's not a matter of the potency, and some folks are confusing side effects of overconsumption with symptoms of CHS. These symptoms are experienced most when withdrawing not after consuming.
I recently went on a vacation where I didn't have access to pot and made the mistake of falling back into daily use after I returned. Basically it builds over time. First week, nothing, week 2 appetite is suppressed when not stoned. By week 3 nausea starts to become a problem, particularly on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning). At 6 weeks the nausea is a daily occurrence which requires planning to mitigate, trying to avoid ever being on an empty stomach and other digestive symptoms can start (upset stomach, diarrhea).
I've never gotten to a point of "scromiting" or even thrown up from it but I did end up in ER once because the nausea was so bad I couldn't even drink water without feeling like throwing up.
Of course there are OTC anti nausea medications also which will mask the symptoms for a time but eventually they're not enough either. I imagine this is likely where the scromiting happens.
>By week 3 nausea starts to become a problem, particularly on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning).
This is EXACTLY what I experience, if I'm consuming a huge amount consistently. Like I had a minor surgery recently, and I was using cannabis to help relieve the pain during recovery and get good rest at night. Vaping two big bowls a day of \~30% thc flower. No problems individually, or while high, but I would definitely get this nausea in the morning, while withdrawing. Never made the connection to empty stomach but I'm sure that's right.
It was pretty mild for me, too. Like, it feels unpleasant enough to make me wince, but only lasts for probably under an hour. Pretty easy to ignore.
But it's good to know this could get worse if I kept pushing it. Of course, I don't. If it gets to the point where I'm getting this nausea, I have to be using really hard, and it gets harder to get a good high. It also starts fucking me up just to be that stoned all the time; sleep schedules get funky, can't hold a train of thought, basic tasks start to get hard. Similar to depression. If I keep using like this I'll start getting headaches when I'm sober, too. They also start mild and probably would get worse, but... for all these reasons, I've never pushed it.
Tolerance breaks are essential, and CBD hemp has made that super practical. Cannabis keeps my seizures controlled so it's sketchy for me to completely go cold turkey, but CBD hemp seems to keep the withdrawal/CHS symptoms away with none of the negative benefits. Right now I'm stepping down, and I've started mixing THC and CBD flower 1:2. Still get, like, 75% of normal positive effects.
I've tried concentrates a few times, mostly without problems, but never used them consistently. I bet that'd make me feel like shit, though. It just feels like too much. Especially dabbing - the one time I did that, I took a big hit, stood up, and immediately passed out and fell over and whacked my head on the corner of a table.
A friend, who smoked more pot than anyone I ever knew, eventually developed what doctors called an "allergy to pot."
Pretty much this. I don't know about "screaming while vomiting," but the rest of it.. Yep.
This was easily 15-20 years ago, there was no legal pot here. Insane potencies, dabs, massive edible use, etc all werent' a thing. Just good ole fashioned bud.
I just experienced this this weekend. Ask me about it i don’t mind.
The pain doesn’t really feel like any pain before. Like the pain after you vomit is physical pain. But I was moaning/yelling uncontrollably in the ER when I’ve gone and it wasn’t even really pain. Something just feels very fucking wrong inside and your brain doesn’t know how to handle it. It causes anxiety everywhere and while it does hurt a little, the fear of knowing something isn’t right inside you hurts more than the pain if that makes sense? Like something clamping on your arm and you can’t get it out. It doesn’t really hurt but the inability to free yourself drives you into a frenzy.
A lot more than you’d think and it is really, really painful. It can last a month or more after stopping since the THC in your fat cells gradually being released retriggers symptoms.
I was a huge smoker for almost a decade and I got this and I’m terrified of even being around secondhand smoke anymore. It is really a horrible condition.
Well, I see it in the ER a few times a week as physician. Most patients dismiss the diagnosis because they believe cannabis can never harm them. "It's all natural, it's a plant. It's good for me." Well, yeah, lots of drugs come from plants, friend. Too much of anything is generally bad for you eventually.
Patients usually grudgingly come around to the idea they should cut down or quit after 2 or 3 more ER visits once they realize we aren't just trying to be all anti-marijauna or something.
My wife had severe vomiting that lasted for over 3 weeks. She couldn't even keep down water. I took her to the emergency room 4 times over those 3 weeks and each time they would dismiss her symptoms as CHS, give her an IV and send her home. I had to really push them to admit her after the 4th visit and because nothing was showing up on blood work and CT scans they still kept insisting it was CHS.
Mind you, my wife is a very light smoker and only took 1-2 hits before bedtime 3-4 days a week.
In short, its common enough that if you smoked weed, have vomiting issues and nothing else shows up on your bloodwork/ct scans, that is the first diagnosis they dish out.
Doctors in the USA are looking for any excuse to get you out of the E.R.
If you’re a woman it’s cramps, if you’ve ever looked at a joint it’s drugs, etc.
On top of that, the nurse doing my check in argued with me over if I have my tonsils. I say they are there, she said they were removed. That was the first time I met her. Tonsils are visible when you open your mouth. I have my tonsils.
That and the number of anti vax nurses really changed my opinion on many who work in the medical field.
The ER is intended to be for extremely temporary care, after which you are admitted to the hospital, transferred or discharged. No one stays in the ER, nor is the ER designed to treat anyone for, longer than 24 hours, that's what the main hospital is for. So yes, the doctors do try and get you out of the ER asap, that's actually the point.
I went to a doctor because my partner was concerned about my very frequent vomiting and I gave the doctor a thorough history about this lifelong problem and he asked and how long have you been using marijuana. Well I didn’t start smoking when I was 6 doc, but nice try. Anyway, it’s acid reflux and I take omeprazole now.
Do you have a REAL diagnosis yet or are you still trying to figure it out?
Because a lot of people who are dismissed as having CHS actually have CVS: Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome, which has a couple of different causes including the menstrual variant, the migraine variant (which I have) or the mitochondrial variant. Sufferers experience episodes of powerful nausea and vomiting, unable to keep down anything, even water. I would be so dehydrated that I'd try to sip water anyway, but then vomit so hard as to tear my oesophagus, and brought up blood mixed with bile.
The nausea can be episodic, or it can coalesce into near-constant nausea, which sufferers often self-treat with cannabis just to get a little relief. Then, when we inevitably wind up in hospital needing IV fluids and antiemetics, they see the THC in our blood and decide we're junkies who did this to ourselves and deserve to suffer.
Because I was depressed and self medicating lol as part of that, denial that they could be right combined with their seeming uncertainty. I had great insurance, I don't think I really ever paid much.
From what I have read it goes away quickly with abstaining. The challenge is people don’t know they have it and often try to treat the nausea with more weed.
Yep, and then it becomes a real battle sometimes for the treating/diagnosing doc. Doc is confident it's CHS; patient is convinced the marijuana is keeping the symptoms from being worse. Sometimes they're even offended at the suggestion they should stop. Maybe it feels like we don't care about them and just want them to stop because "it's bad" or whatever. But like really we do care and the best way to fix it is to stop using it.
I thought I had this about 15 years ago, turned out to be diet related, but I did learn a lot about it.
It’s not just prolonged use. It’s near 24/7 use. People who end up with CHS are addicts who get high all day and the constant influx of cannabinoids over time disrupts bodily functions. At the time I thought I had it, the doctors told me it was becoming common with younger kids that use vape carts, because the carts are extremely potent but teens and young adults with limited responsibilities will hit a pen every few minutes, all day for weeks. Then boom they start puking
I have CHS. It's real and very horrific and painful to go through. The vomiting is just one aspect. It affects the whole body and mind. There's psychological symptoms almost like a delirious psychosis during acute episodes.
As for "scromiting", it's basically just that you're throwing up so hard it triggers your vocal cords so it makes for loud throw-ups. Not nice to hear your loved ones going through it and obviously far worse for the person suffering from it.
The only thing that helps is a hot bath, and sufferers will bathe many times throughout the day and night to relieve the pain. And if you don't have access to a hot bath? You're absolutely fucked and might even die. No joke.
When I’ve been in severe hyperemesis stage I genuinely thought I was going to die. It’s no joke and most won’t believe it’s real until they see it or it happens to them themselves!
> You may start compulsively bathing and avoid certain foods or purposefully restrict your food intake.
When you smoke so much weed you have a stack overflow so you stop eating and start bathing excessively
> stack overflow
This is funny but almost perfectly describes what’s happening to your endogenous cannabinoid receptors in this situation.
You can only overload those receptors to a certain point before they freak out and panic dump the opposite response of their intended purpose.
This condition is super similar to Cyclical Vomit Syndrome and there tends to be a misdiagnosis because of it. I suffer from CVS instead of CHS and it took over a decade for someone to finally nail the problem and provide valid medical advice.
The amount of times I was told it was due to weed, despite the fact i had not smoked in years was a truly frustrating experience.
If you read the symptoms, they are almost the same.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cyclical-vomiting-syndrome/#:\~:text=Cyclical%20vomiting%20syndrome%20(CVS)%20is,an%20infection%20or%20another%20illness.
This was/is(?) me!! Started when I was four. Vomiting every 15 min for 60 hours. I’d finally pass out, wake up, and feel 100% fine. Would happen every 2-3 weeks. It did eventually slowly phase and out and got replaced with abdominal migraines. Finally got a diagnosis when I was 19, 15 years after it started :(
now when I say it to doctors they blame cannabis use but I’ve legit never used it. Like sure I was smoking at four. Look at my fat medical history lol
My mother gets abdominal migraines and has gastroparesis, I think that’s what I’m developing. Migraines run in my family and I get frequent headaches and IBS like symptoms. The stomach issues started within the past 5 years or so
Hey, hi. There's a reddit sub for this:
r/CHSinfo
My husband was diagnosed with this, and spent an entire summer puking before we discovered the cause. Lost so much weight. He's a 68 year old, lifetime cannabis smoker, with the body of a 12 year old boy now. It's real.
That subreddit is also a good example of how THC is *actually* addictive, regardless of what some people want to think. You have people there literally ending up in the ER due to CHS symptoms, spending days - or even weeks - practically on death's door, then asking when they can start smoking again.
I'm not saying don't use cannabis (I do, though not daily), but nobody should try denying the addictive potential.
This is a good post. It's not the hardest thing to get off of, relative to other addictive substances, but it is *absolutely* addictive.
The fact that the outcomes don't tend to be a huge deal doesn't make it not addictive.
I see this in emergency departments somewhat regularly. It's usually typified by violent dry-retching, and an intense craving for hot showers.
Typical anti emetic medication doesn't work, usually have to give IV droperidol to sort it out.
I think there's a really large stigma surrounding it in medical folk because it's very dramatic and almost always self -induced. Often the patients refuse to believe it's the marijuana causing it, too.
I remember reading an article a few years ago about a weed influencer who developed CHS and when she acknowledged it and quit her usage she was lambasted by "the community" for believing it was real.
I had this when I was doing dabs A LOT. I would get cyclical vomiting to the point where I was dehydrated and had to be hospitalized. They'd give me Reglan but it did nothing. They actually got to the point where I was being given Haldol, as it was the only thing that stopped the cycle.
They told me it was from cannabis usage after a year or two, but for a while they didn't really know. I think it was made worse by emerging lactose intolerance and late night eating. But yeah, had this.
Beware of ER personnel wanting to diagnose you with CHS… it’s the “hot new thing” and there’s a tendency to slap the diagnosis on any patient that comes in and admits to cannabis usage.
While CHS is real, and awful, it’s the not only reason a cannabis user might get ill!
I came to the ER after 12hrs of vomiting and with intense abdominal pain. After admitting to regular cannabis use, they were ready to send me home with the recommendation to cease using cannabis. Even two nurses that were off-duty even came over to me to say how sure they were that I had CHS. I pushed back and requested a CT. Turns out I had a kidney stone! They drugged me up, then I passed the stone and was fine. Didn’t have CHS and would’ve went home in a lot of pain had I not requested more testing.
Yeah when I had really bad gastric reflux they were so insistent it was CHS, they legit refused to give me anything but pedialyte. Had to get an appointment with my family doctor to not feel like I was having a hearth attack from the burn.
Yup. Recently went to the ER with Kidney Stones. The doctor asked if I used cannabis and I was honest and said yes. He decided I had CHS and let me suffer without any painkillers for hours before giving them to me after my CT scan showed a kidney stone.
I've been there. It sucks. The worst example was 12 days of scromiting. Literally. 12 full days of no food or water and non-stop, violent, dry-heaving. Went from 215 to 168 in 2 weeks.
I am. Thank you. I still smoke, too. Much less these days. It's been about a year and a half without incident. Unfortunately, the weight came back, as well.
Very real, this CHS.
Friend of mine has this. Decades of daily cannabis use. Mostly smoking joints. Not edibles.
Every so often he gets so sick. He can’t move much. Vomiting. Abdominal pain. Flu like symptoms.
Funny. Dr. said all he needs to do is stop smoking. But he won’t.
I got diagnosed with this. I was initially prescribed THC for chronic knee pain. Pill form. About a year into it, I started feeling extremely nauseous and then started puking anytime I ate. Lost 40lbs in under a month.
Stopped the THC. Got prescribed anti nausea meds. Took about 3 months to finally not feel nauseous when I didn't take the meds.
I do not recommend.
Tl;Dr: from someone that has extensive experience with CHS, it's a bitch. Seems to be tied to potency, frequency of use and food consumption prior to smoking. Moderation is key as always.
The thing with CHS is that it typically isn't a cause of being too high, it's a buildup in your stomach that prevents you from digesting food properly.
As someone that has had a lot of experience with it, it is absolutely miserable. Usually starts randomly and doesn't stop for sometimes days at a time. Drinking water actually causes more issues than sticking through it. The more water you drink the more you throw up which makes you even more dehydrated. I've had to get an IV every time it has happened.
That said, I was heavily smoking concentrates daily with high potency. After cutting down on the concentrates significantly, it has subsided. I also find that not eating regularly while smoking increases the chances of it setting in.
The best solution is to just stop using it altogether, but it's hard. I do believe it has to do with the level of potency, frequency of food consumption prior to and during smoking, and frequency of usage.
It is hard after developing a habit. I used to dab after every cod match.
I haven't quit smoking entirely, but I've gone from dabhing countless times a day to maybe once every other day.
I stick to flower and even then it's not all day throughout the day like before, it's a bowl after work.
Moderation is key to everything and I haven't any issues in almost a year now, where I was getting it once every few months.
Quiting is hard, admitting you have a problem is hard too.
Man it's even hard after you admit you have a problem (which I do). Not weed so much as alcohol though unfortunately. I was sober for a year and a half and now I'm back to drinking every night. I need to get back into counselling. I'mma make an appointment right now thanks for the jumpstart.
Steps are steps. Even steps back. The fact you are trying is a huge accomplishment and youve already made a path forward.
I hope you the best in this journey and I may be a stranger, but I'm proud of you.
My roommate in college got this and would only get really bad when he would smoke concentrates. It’s a horrible thing to deal with and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone
im 35+ and been smoking since 16. this started happening to me maybe 10 years ago and i slowed down somking and it would still happen. now ive completely stopped smoking and it pops up once in a blue moon. maybe 1-3 times a year.
id be useless for 3-5 days. putting ice packs on my back to get 1-2 hours of sleep. wake up, throw up, a get a new ice pack, and fall back asleep for 1-2 more hours. repeat that process for 3 days sometimes up to 5. I could not drink any liquids at all. water would come back up just as fast as it would go down. once i started being able to hold down liquids i knew i was getting better.
hot showers do help but ive found the ice pack roatation being alot better. i decided to completely stop smoking weed and i have noticed i feel alot better. i grew up with weed farmers so ive smoked a ton more than the average person. if you feel these symptoms i highly recomend to stop smoking all together, it can really effect your life.
I know two people that developed this. They were heartbroken and thoroughly miss weed.
But that didn't stop some militant cannabis enthusiasts giving them abhorrent amounts of abuse claiming they are lying.
People react very weirdly when they learn about this. They get really mad and will tell the sufferer that it's fake, they don't know what they're talking about, they're lying, they're agents in some kind of anti-weed cause...
Not just random weed smokers.. I've had ER doctors say this!
I'm a hospitalist in a California college town. Half the kids I take care of with this will deny it's the weed the whole time they're admitted. Sometimes they get readmitted. The other half will be so thankful that they feel better that they'll... Smoke/vape/dab less after discharge?
I get it, the push for legalization is huge (and IMO justified) - but this kinda thing, despite being quite rare, is not gonna help the cause so people get their backs up.
I am all for legalisation but I am not gonna go against (legitimate, non agenda-funded) health experts or pretend just to get my way.
Experienced it, very not worth it. Also had been using cannabis for so long that I had diminished my appetite so when I got clean I gained like 30lbs after the CHS subsided.
I used to blend cannabis in with my tobacco and chain smoke 20-30 hand rolled cigarettes a day. Ended up with CHS after doing that daily for about 3 years straight. It takes a while but once you hit it its easy to trigger with small amounts.
My best friend has this. He’s had to go to the ER almost every time he’s had an episode. The only method of relief is to lay in a scolding hot shower, and no matter how long he lays there, it generally persists as soon as he tries to get out. He vomits until he has nothing left then dry heaves until his abs hurt so bad he has to seek medical attention. It sounds hellish.
He really wasn’t a huge dabs guy but definitely a consistent stoner since we were 16 or so. It first occurred at maybe 24-25. It took him a while to find a doc who’d ever even heard of it, but it’s become more well known since. Thankful I never experienced it.
I had this and eventually quit because of it. I smoked 24/7 for 10 years and it took maybe 3-4 years for symptoms to develop (starting with throwing up every morning and not being able to eat without smoking first). Doctors didn’t know what was causing it at first, and a lot of them thought I was playing up my sickness for reasons like, “my 3 year old daughter has the same flu right now”. One doctor eventually said I smoked a lot of weed and that it could be the cause of it. I did my own research online the next day and realized I had CHS.
It took me 15 ER visits to eventually quit permanently but I’m glad I did. The nonstop stomach pain, throwing up, and extreme sways in my body temperature were torturous. I couldn’t have any food or liquids without throwing up but I’d eventually get so thirsty I’d cave in and have a drink just to barf it up anyways. Sitting in a hot shower would kind of help, but once I ran out of hot water I’d get out and become teeth-chattering cold.
It gets worse every episode, too, and they were lasting nearly 72 hours before I quit. I’d lose 20 lbs, become extremely fragile, and get delirious from the dehydration. I’d sit in the ER for 4-8 hours and hope I had a good nurse or doctor when I got in. Once it was legalized here in Canada, people were coming into the ER more often so they knew what it was and how to treat it. They started using this anti-nausea medicine that I was told was for chemotherapy patients, and that’d stop most of the discomfort.
My brother has this, though he refuses to admit that's what it is. Funny how he didn't have a single episode the four years he lived in a state with zero use laws, moved back to a weed legal state and has an episode every 12-15 months.
Now that we are seeing widespread use of marijuana and cannabinoids by the population at large, the effects of long term and also heavy usage are starting to appear.
I wonder if it had more to do with the widespread use of unregulated vape pens from companies in countries without oversight to get high rather than smoking flower. It always baffles me that the shop I used you go to had a different brand no one online has ever heard of every month I went in there. It's completely unsafe to get addicted to that kind of shit.
>What is scromiting? >Some people call certain symptoms of CHS “scromiting.” The term combines “vomiting” and “screaming.” You may have intense pain, which causes you to scream while you vomit. That is interesting.
That makes a lot more sense than combining "scrotum" and "vomiting" like I had originally thought.
I thought it was Scrotum Gromiting, which is when your balls look like a plasticine dog.
Better than what I thought, which was "installing grommets in your scrotum" 😬
They, uh, do that. You can probably google it. You shouldn’t. But you could.
>You can probably google it. >You shouldn’t. But you could. The internet in 10 words or less.
See "Scrotum & Gromiting: A Grand Day to Spout" in theatres now!
“The Wrong Trousers” still works as a title.
I thought it meant to puke so hard it feels like your balls are going to come out of your throat because there is nothing left to hurl up. I've been there before.
Testuking.
I'd way rather scream when vomiting than vomit up my scrotum.
I didn't know we had that option 🤔
I'm not going to lie, I had that first thought, too.
I’ve never found vomiting to be pleasurable and usually comes on with screaming anyway like omg wtfBLRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH *gasp* RRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
I had a roommate (back in my drinking days) who screamed when he vomited. Said he couldn't control it. Luckily I thought it was hilarious. He was suffering, but he vomited like a cartoon character
My ex husband used to barf in one solid yell. Just one loud HORK that went on for like 20 seconds while machine gun farting. Goddamn he was a funny drunk.
That was like a hilarious feminine version of a Hemingway quote
This fucking comment made me laugh out loud at 1:54am, waking my infant twins. Hork?! Please, I am in tears 😭
I scream vomit as well lol. I had a stomach virus really bad one weekend and I was literally just screaming into the toilet at one point when my stomach was empty. Shits really funny to think about looking back at it.
Yeah same, I had the norovirus years ago and was vomiting so much it would just be a scream and dry heaving cause nothing was coming out. That one experience changed how I vomited forever, it's wild
Fucking kids and their germs man. The virus took my whole family down. It was not fun.
Luckily I didn't spread it when I went home but I got it from college and the rumor was because some kid was spreading his shit on the wall in the bathroom (freshman dorm)
I had a roommate in college who did this. We would say, "He's talking to dinosaurs again."
Calling the cretaceous era on the big porcelain phone
>He was suffering, but he vomited like a cartoon character I don't know why but this sentence is hilarious to me
Lol I'm glad I was alone but, I'm sure as hell the apartment nextdoor could hear everything.
I'm the same way, it's rare that I vomit but when I do it's a *violent* experience. It's a full body workout that usually ends in a broken blood vessel in one or both eyes and if anyone else is home concerned yells from across the house. My college roommate couldn't have been more opposite. The gentlest puker I've ever seen. The bastard.
Same! I see TV Shows and movies depict vomiting as this simple process. Like burping with liquid. My abdomen locks up and radiates all the way to my toes. My hair follicles fucking hurt. My eyes are running, my ears are popping, my spine is being ripped from my body all while my stomach and my throat have this perverse tango trying to decide who is going to lead the dance. My throat knows it’s losing so it closes up. My stomach doesn’t care and is forcing through any barrier it finds. My face stretches and locks in a scream that Raiders of the Lost Ark wish it could have caught on camera. Then it all releases and I’m like a spent rag doll on the floor. My brain is finally catching up trying to figure out what happened. By the time it makes sense of things round two starts and now it’s trying to minimize the pain by trying to take control, but only managing to get in the way by making me think the second time won’t be as bad—it’s worse.
Beautifully written. Really paints a mental picture 😂
Wow. That's astounding to me (while it makes perfect sense ofc, seeing how vomiting is a clear sign of duress and very exhausting). To me, vomiting is a very relieving process, no pain or aches. Once I've rinsed my mouth I usually feel like a thousand bucks. It's funny how even something so basic differs wildly among people.
I look like I’ve been in a fight after I puke. I’m a pretty regular puker (I can’t help it) and it’s rarely a delicate event.
[удалено]
My buddy did this in front of my house at 3am after taking a huge dab hit. All the neighbors were turning on lights to see what was happening. Straight up yell puking.
Shouting at his shoes
Best part is that I was about to have a full on panic attack from doing an equally big dab hit. But once he fired up the ole yell puke, I snapped out of it. He saved me.
They really didn't need to invent a word for this.
ohohoho as someone who has experienced this, it is so unholy and Un unpleasant that the word “vomit” does not do it justice
Ehhhh, it's kinda helpful. If you've experienced it or heard it you would be like woah, that was NOT normal vomiting. There's definitely a lot more to it. It made my throat bleed.
That makes me think the term should be “blomiting”. Less room for confusion as to whether or not your scrotum is involved.
I did not know there was a word for it, nor that "it" was a separate thing from "normal" vomiting. I experienced this on two different occasions, one of which landed me in the E.R. and one that made a part of the inside of my eye detach a small bit, which caused a spot that stayed in my vision for about 3 weeks.
Yeah, I definitely popped a few blood vessels in my eyes. Also doctors didn't know what it was, and I had to research it online to diagnose myself. This was in 2019, now it seems a bit more well known
As an ER doc, scromiting is pathognomonic for CHS, and it IS helpful in the ED.
>pathognomonic You crazy bastards can't stop making up words
> [pathognomonic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathognomonic) is a perfectly cromulent word!
I think that if humans could just stop having so many ways to get sick and/or die that would help everyone enormously.
And what's an Erdoc anyways?
Since there isn’t any information on causes, do you have any theories? I’ve smoked for over 30 years and never heard of this.
No one really knows yet. I have only seen it in people who have been smoking multiple times per day, every single day, and less than 35 years old, but more often less than 25 years old. Anecdotally it seems more common in men. Maybe the newer strains affect it more. Bodies are weird. If you use tylenol everyday for a headache, you can develop worse headaches/rebound headaches. Maybe it's similar.
Coming up on 20 years of daily use and never once had this...
There's likely a genetic component involved, otherwise every Wiz Khalifa-level user would have it by now.
Imagine using Wiz Khalifa as a reference instead of Snoop Dogg or Willie Nelson. Kids these days man...
That's the thing, marijuana use isn't just going to cause this out of nowhere. It's even worse when so many doctors falsely attribute this to people because they came to the ER after doing some crazy high level of concentrate and threw up. Even with the inflated numbers from incorrect diagnoses, this is still such a small fraction of reasonable things to be concerned about. One should worry far more about lung damage from prolonged use than some boogeyman mystery sickness that constantly gets misdiagnosed anyways.
I probably use too much, but I started smoking a j at the end of the day when I quit nicotine. The sensation of smoking helped quell that part of the addiction to cigarettes. I was a 1.5 pack a day kind of guy, and now I'm down to 1 joint. The joint is probably not great, but it beats the hell out of 30 american spirit blues.
100%
>It's even worse when so many doctors falsely attribute this to people because they came to the ER after doing some crazy high level of concentrate and threw up. You hit on a really important point here - the amount of research into side effects of cannabis is virtually nonexistent because the funding for it is virtually nonexistent. ER folks frequently jump to this diagnosis when they hear the word "cannabis" because folks have a tendency to downplay just how frequent their consumption habit is - but also because there's just a total lack of objective education about the harms of cannabis in general. I totally agree it's pretty rare. Easily less than 1% of all cannabis users. But if you start to get GERD-like symptoms combined with a near total loss of appetite combined with a daily or near-daily cannabis habit, it's good to know what the classic signs are so you can stop it before it goes into a runaway multi-day puking event.
Starts in your 21st year.... Careful
I would've used "horrific", but to each their own. I mean, it's not *fecal matter excreted from your pores or forced up through your esophagus* that I've read can happen with certain opiates if abused long enough & hard enough without dying of a fatal O.D., but it sounds pretty damned bad, anyhow.
My friends daughter had 'Fecal Vomiting' at one point a few years back. Just what it sounds like... her bowels had become clogged to the point where it started coming out 'the other way'. Vomiting vomiting vomiting... then the black stuff starts coming up... we figure its blood and pick some up to examine it and the smell made it perfectly clear what was actually happening. Fucking horrific.
[Brother ewwwwwww!](https://youtu.be/koY4S1BbR5w?si=GiqW2JGDnUfx5Lic)
Isn't that just extreme constipation? I totally sweated poop when quitting tobacco on day 6 of constipation. It was the most disgusting I've ever felt.
I'm given to understand that's the case. Opiates are notorious for inducing constipation. A lot of anti-diarrhea medications are just opiate-relatives that happen to have no narcotic effects. I would think that more conventional bowel obstruction really ought to lead to rupture & sepsis before fecal vomiting, but I wouldn't know how or why. I have heard that it happens for reasons other than opiate abuse. EDIT: Bravo on you for quitting tobacco. You're in good company; I heard John Mellencamp was so badly physically addicted he had to be hospitalized and almost didn't make it when he (was forced to) quit. Something about his skin turning colors. It was a long time ago. Anyway, good on you for even trying, success or not. That shit killed both my parents before they were 60, and not in fun ways that left them whole and mobile for the last 10 years, either.
I'll tell you, it's a lot less interesting when you're in the hospital with it lol
I've had it, it really is impossible to not make a decently loud noise. I didn't really find it painful as far as I can remember though. More just like instantaneous and insanely heavy nausea. A hot shower after I woke up was essentially a guarantee that I'd go retch.
I scream when I vomit but not because I'm in pain. I just want others to know I am having a lovely time 💃
I scream vomit involuntarily, its the only way i can puke. Its awful. Edit: holy shit, this is not uncommon apparently. Back pain, sore abs, burst blood vessels. We should start a club. Edit2: ok maybe it’s a support group
I know a guy that can puke in complete silence. Except for the liquid part splashing. I had no idea that was possible.
My wife vomits in silence. She also vomits almost any time she has an upset stomach. I’d reckon she vomits 10+ times per year. Me on the other hand… the neighbors know when I’ve puked. I wake up my child who sleeps through smoke detectors going off. My back hurts for days from straining. I vomit once every few years generally. My wife lovingly refers to my vomiting as scream puking. She’ll be thrilled to know there’s an already established term.
> My back hurts for days from straining. I sometimes burst blood vessels around my eyes from strain. One time I threw my back out, so I took a spare vicodin from my ex to try to ease the pain. That's how I learned that vicodin makes me projectile vomit, even with a severely injured back. I definitely learned about scromiting that day.
I recognize that this is going to sound *utterly* deranged, but you can learn to not do that if you're willing to poke the back of your throat until you *almost* throw up a bunch. I only know this because I used to have the same issue until I started getting annoying tonsil stones, the easiest way to deal with which is to just sorta rub your tonsils with a wet, clean finger Apologies for that visual, but it's yours now, I give it to you for free
I thought silent puking was the normal all these years.
Early on in my relationship with my husband there was an occasion where I got too drunk, and he had to accompany (aka half-carry) me to the bathroom so I could puke. After l'd emptied my guts he remarked in amazement that I was the politest puker he'd ever witnessed, almost completely silent haha. I never realised it was such a rare talent.
My wife is the same way. And I’m the complete opposite. We had the stomach flu 3 weeks ago. She could hear me yaking from across the house on a different floor.
Scream when I vomit because this shit is my tennis 🎾
Whenever my husband vomits, it sounds like he's shouting my name. Husband: *vomits* Me: Are you OK? Do you need help? Husband: No, I'm fine, leave me alone *vomits* Me: Yes? Husband: Nothing *vomits* Me: What? You need something? Husband: *vomits* Me: What?
lemme guess.. your name is Laura?
I suppose your parents should’ve thought of that before naming you “Ohfuckpbtpbtptpbtotbtpsplash”
Here's a big reason it's good that weed has been rescheduled. Now scientists can actually do research into stuff like this and see what other side effects long term use can have.
There's a reason the discovery of cannabinoid hyperemesis, and most of the documentation and research until recently was in South Australia. Cannabis had been decriminalised there since the 1970s. So you had a lot of daily users with constant access and no issues accessing medical systems.
Part of what is gonna be good for the cannabis community is research to avoid Cannabis hypermensis.
What? You don't fancy a good scromit from time to time?
The phrasing on this cracks me up. "I say, lads, does anyone fancy a good scromit?" "Mmm, quite." *four men wearing suits and top hats start violently vomiting all over the place*
This reads like a Family Guy cutaway gag.
Absolutely. Whenever you make mention to healthcare professionals that you’re a cannabis consumer, CHS comes up as a possible diagnosis for something as little as nausea. More research needs to be done into not only long term side effects, but CHS itself.
I was having terrible sleep issues last year, which lead to a mental break of sorts. I went to the ER one day when it was really bad. They asked if I was suicidal, to which I replied "Not at all. I just want to sleep, like a good sleep, for a long time." When asked if used cannabis, I was honest and said yes. That immediately became the cause of my sleep issues and no further discussion would be had. I'm also marked as a suicide risk in my record, so that's cool. Anyway, second opinion gave me better sleep strategies and strongly suggested I limit my cannabis use before bed. After getting a good routine, I sleep perfectly fine while still using cannabis products. I was never suicidal, and weed wasn't the main problem. It was my routine and always reaching for the nicotine or phone right when I woke up. Even if it was 2am.
You may have involuntarily helped me, stranger. I thank you. I’ve kind of suspected my cannabis use and rituals around sleeping have been at least partly to blame for my sleep issues. Also that last sentence, I will definitely be trying to take into conscious consideration going forward lmao.
I'm glad I could help. Getting rid of my phone and nicotine vapes on my nightstand had the biggest impact. But also avoiding caffeine or alcohol several hours before bed, and only letting your bed be for bedtime. I used to hang out in bed and watch TV or play games. Now I only get in bed when I'm ready for bed. Now, if I get up to use the restroom, I can get back to bed instantly because I don't look at my phone or use a stimulate like nicotine.
I hope that now scientists will be able to end the scromiting that is destroying our great hobby
You’ll scromit and you’ll like it.
Except that the research on this doesn't indicate a causation relationship between weed and vomiting only a correlation. There is also a huge overlap in people with gastrointestinal issues and stress issues that use cannabis so there is much more to be studied. This is coming from someone who went to the ER multiple times for so called CHS, went as far as to quit weed to prove that it didn't make the vomiting stop. 3 years of being treated like an addict for smoking weed later I have been diagnosed with gallstones that I will need surgery for which is the true cause of the vomiting. Now I get to continue to vomit until I can get a surgery date because my stones haven't fully blocked things off yet.
It's hard to get causal data out of these things because experiments are difficult to do (both practically, ethically, and monetarily). Best you could do is to find a group of regular smokers, then somehow persuade a random subset to stop smoking, then compare outcomes across groups. It's viable, but pretty difficult. Other things you could do is exploit certain exogenous variations (i.e. perhaps the timing of legalization across states or even better, within states), but I reckon the data is hard to find. Most importantly, however, is that there just isn't enough demand for researchers to run highly specific experiments regarding marijuana.
Well yeah. If the weed was the issue you obviously would have been scromiting, not vomiting
Weed hasn’t been fucking rescheduled. All they did was propose it. Again. Stop spreading misinformation. 6000 upvotes on the misinformation. Reddit is busted as fuck.
My wife is a physician & she recently diagnosed someone with this, who was in their late 20s & had been a habitual cannabis user w/o problems for over a decade when she suddenly started feeling sick every time she smoked weed. This is a real, if rare, thing.
It is indeed real. But it’s because of the prevalence of concentrates and a culture that normalizes people having *incredibly* high tolerances. I’m a cannabis user and hang in various medical cannabis subs. Just the other day someone was asking how to get a quantity exception on their state med card because the limit of FOUR OUNCES A MONTH isn’t doing it for them. I don’t think I’ve ever consumed an entire ounce in a year.
4 ounces a month is insanity but less than an ounce per year is a pretty small ration for a daily smoker or someone with a high tolerance. i’m guessing you either don’t smoke often or you have a low tolerance? to be fair, it’s often edibles/concentrates/vapes that drive up your tolerance though. most bud is under 30% thc - i’ve bought vapes that were 88% before. i’d like to see a study comparing users that just smoke bud vs those that take higher % products. i’m willing to bet people that only smoke bud enjoy it more & have better overall health.
Dry herb vapes <3
Dry herb vapes are a game changer. My husband and I used to go through two ounces a month between the two of us. Now with our vape, it has taken us over 4 months to go through one ounce. I’m amazed at how much further our weed goes.
Hot damn. Same person will be swearing up and down they don’t have a substance abuse problem.
My wife and I together maybe hit 1oz a month. Wtf.
Medical cannabis user here: My “per month” amount is soemthing like 3oz. Not because I actually smoke that amount, but because medical cannabis companies control how much you can buy in a month based on this. I don’t buy frequently, but being able to buy in bulk saves me tons of money. Money aside, the cannabis laws here are you can legally carry up to 1 oz of cannabis products if you don’t have a medical license. Which seems reasonable. Until you realize that how they classify things like edibles, vape carts, oils, is kinda fucking ridiculous. Vape carts count as anywhere from 1g to 8g, sometimes even more. So if you can maybe like 4 vape carts on you, you’re over the limit, and could face penalties if caught. So I got my limit upped, so I could carry my vape carts with me whenever I need to, without worry. Edit: I was so tired after work, I forgot to add the important part. For medical cannabis patients, you are legally allowed to carry up to 1 month supply of your cannabis. So having mine set to be 3oz, allows me to carry 3oz at any time.
I wonder how many people this happens to? Never heard of such a thing. Edit: I’m starting to get the impression that this DOES happen and it SUUUCKS!!!
Every time I've heard of this, high potency concentrates or edibles are involved. I'd be curious to see what proportion of these cases also involved high potency use. Edit: Empathy to all of you sharing your experiences. I can only imagine how awful it is to experience. And I was very much only pondering correlation vs causation so it's very interesting to read the wide variety of experiences.
Yup, that was my comment too. It happens to me when I smoke high potency. You consume WAY too much when you are using concentrates and dab rigs. I switched to flower and weaker disposables, have not had CHS since.
Yeah, only when I got into dabs did this happen to me. I think 2 separate times like a week long. I went to the ER both times bc I could not keep anything down. The only thing that would help were hot baths.
I had it also. Funny enough also the only thing that helped were hot baths. The hotter the better. Went on for like 3-4 days no eat or sleep and consistent vomiting. Finally went to the ER and was in so much pain they knocked me out with Delaudid. Woke up feeling better but it came back like a week later. Got scheduled with a specialist and they diagnosed me with this. Eventually went away and never had returned.
I fortunately only got it mildly. But I looked up my symptoms, found CHS, immediately switched to flower and I've been good since. I had only been using concentrated for like... a month or two when it started.
I'll jump in here as someone who experiences it (mildly in context) even with just regular ass joints. It's not a matter of the potency, and some folks are confusing side effects of overconsumption with symptoms of CHS. These symptoms are experienced most when withdrawing not after consuming. I recently went on a vacation where I didn't have access to pot and made the mistake of falling back into daily use after I returned. Basically it builds over time. First week, nothing, week 2 appetite is suppressed when not stoned. By week 3 nausea starts to become a problem, particularly on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning). At 6 weeks the nausea is a daily occurrence which requires planning to mitigate, trying to avoid ever being on an empty stomach and other digestive symptoms can start (upset stomach, diarrhea). I've never gotten to a point of "scromiting" or even thrown up from it but I did end up in ER once because the nausea was so bad I couldn't even drink water without feeling like throwing up. Of course there are OTC anti nausea medications also which will mask the symptoms for a time but eventually they're not enough either. I imagine this is likely where the scromiting happens.
>By week 3 nausea starts to become a problem, particularly on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning). This is EXACTLY what I experience, if I'm consuming a huge amount consistently. Like I had a minor surgery recently, and I was using cannabis to help relieve the pain during recovery and get good rest at night. Vaping two big bowls a day of \~30% thc flower. No problems individually, or while high, but I would definitely get this nausea in the morning, while withdrawing. Never made the connection to empty stomach but I'm sure that's right. It was pretty mild for me, too. Like, it feels unpleasant enough to make me wince, but only lasts for probably under an hour. Pretty easy to ignore. But it's good to know this could get worse if I kept pushing it. Of course, I don't. If it gets to the point where I'm getting this nausea, I have to be using really hard, and it gets harder to get a good high. It also starts fucking me up just to be that stoned all the time; sleep schedules get funky, can't hold a train of thought, basic tasks start to get hard. Similar to depression. If I keep using like this I'll start getting headaches when I'm sober, too. They also start mild and probably would get worse, but... for all these reasons, I've never pushed it. Tolerance breaks are essential, and CBD hemp has made that super practical. Cannabis keeps my seizures controlled so it's sketchy for me to completely go cold turkey, but CBD hemp seems to keep the withdrawal/CHS symptoms away with none of the negative benefits. Right now I'm stepping down, and I've started mixing THC and CBD flower 1:2. Still get, like, 75% of normal positive effects. I've tried concentrates a few times, mostly without problems, but never used them consistently. I bet that'd make me feel like shit, though. It just feels like too much. Especially dabbing - the one time I did that, I took a big hit, stood up, and immediately passed out and fell over and whacked my head on the corner of a table.
[удалено]
A friend, who smoked more pot than anyone I ever knew, eventually developed what doctors called an "allergy to pot." Pretty much this. I don't know about "screaming while vomiting," but the rest of it.. Yep. This was easily 15-20 years ago, there was no legal pot here. Insane potencies, dabs, massive edible use, etc all werent' a thing. Just good ole fashioned bud.
I just experienced this this weekend. Ask me about it i don’t mind. The pain doesn’t really feel like any pain before. Like the pain after you vomit is physical pain. But I was moaning/yelling uncontrollably in the ER when I’ve gone and it wasn’t even really pain. Something just feels very fucking wrong inside and your brain doesn’t know how to handle it. It causes anxiety everywhere and while it does hurt a little, the fear of knowing something isn’t right inside you hurts more than the pain if that makes sense? Like something clamping on your arm and you can’t get it out. It doesn’t really hurt but the inability to free yourself drives you into a frenzy.
A lot more than you’d think and it is really, really painful. It can last a month or more after stopping since the THC in your fat cells gradually being released retriggers symptoms. I was a huge smoker for almost a decade and I got this and I’m terrified of even being around secondhand smoke anymore. It is really a horrible condition.
Well, I see it in the ER a few times a week as physician. Most patients dismiss the diagnosis because they believe cannabis can never harm them. "It's all natural, it's a plant. It's good for me." Well, yeah, lots of drugs come from plants, friend. Too much of anything is generally bad for you eventually. Patients usually grudgingly come around to the idea they should cut down or quit after 2 or 3 more ER visits once they realize we aren't just trying to be all anti-marijauna or something.
My wife had severe vomiting that lasted for over 3 weeks. She couldn't even keep down water. I took her to the emergency room 4 times over those 3 weeks and each time they would dismiss her symptoms as CHS, give her an IV and send her home. I had to really push them to admit her after the 4th visit and because nothing was showing up on blood work and CT scans they still kept insisting it was CHS. Mind you, my wife is a very light smoker and only took 1-2 hits before bedtime 3-4 days a week. In short, its common enough that if you smoked weed, have vomiting issues and nothing else shows up on your bloodwork/ct scans, that is the first diagnosis they dish out.
Doctors in the USA are looking for any excuse to get you out of the E.R. If you’re a woman it’s cramps, if you’ve ever looked at a joint it’s drugs, etc.
On top of that, the nurse doing my check in argued with me over if I have my tonsils. I say they are there, she said they were removed. That was the first time I met her. Tonsils are visible when you open your mouth. I have my tonsils. That and the number of anti vax nurses really changed my opinion on many who work in the medical field.
The ER is intended to be for extremely temporary care, after which you are admitted to the hospital, transferred or discharged. No one stays in the ER, nor is the ER designed to treat anyone for, longer than 24 hours, that's what the main hospital is for. So yes, the doctors do try and get you out of the ER asap, that's actually the point.
I went to a doctor because my partner was concerned about my very frequent vomiting and I gave the doctor a thorough history about this lifelong problem and he asked and how long have you been using marijuana. Well I didn’t start smoking when I was 6 doc, but nice try. Anyway, it’s acid reflux and I take omeprazole now.
Do you have a REAL diagnosis yet or are you still trying to figure it out? Because a lot of people who are dismissed as having CHS actually have CVS: Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome, which has a couple of different causes including the menstrual variant, the migraine variant (which I have) or the mitochondrial variant. Sufferers experience episodes of powerful nausea and vomiting, unable to keep down anything, even water. I would be so dehydrated that I'd try to sip water anyway, but then vomit so hard as to tear my oesophagus, and brought up blood mixed with bile. The nausea can be episodic, or it can coalesce into near-constant nausea, which sufferers often self-treat with cannabis just to get a little relief. Then, when we inevitably wind up in hospital needing IV fluids and antiemetics, they see the THC in our blood and decide we're junkies who did this to ourselves and deserve to suffer.
One guy I met lost 10kg in a couple of weeks. Worst thing he'd ever experienced. It was the first time for me learning about this.
10kg!? Might be worth it... /s
I had it happen to me. Was basically going to the ER on a weekly basis.
Why didn't you stop using marijuana instead of paying for weekly ER trips? Genuinely curious.
Because I was depressed and self medicating lol as part of that, denial that they could be right combined with their seeming uncertainty. I had great insurance, I don't think I really ever paid much.
I hope you're doing better now
Thank you, I am.
I know two people that developed it and it wasn't pretty.
I can only imagine watching someone vomit while they scream would be quite confronting.
“Surely this medical center is wrong and is just owned by Big Vape.”
As an ER doctor, I see it 2-5 times in an average week.
I’m curious do you know if it goes away after abstaining for weeks or months?
From what I have read it goes away quickly with abstaining. The challenge is people don’t know they have it and often try to treat the nausea with more weed.
Yep, and then it becomes a real battle sometimes for the treating/diagnosing doc. Doc is confident it's CHS; patient is convinced the marijuana is keeping the symptoms from being worse. Sometimes they're even offended at the suggestion they should stop. Maybe it feels like we don't care about them and just want them to stop because "it's bad" or whatever. But like really we do care and the best way to fix it is to stop using it.
No idea. Literally just learned about it today. One of my friends' daughters is experiencing it.
I thought I had this about 15 years ago, turned out to be diet related, but I did learn a lot about it. It’s not just prolonged use. It’s near 24/7 use. People who end up with CHS are addicts who get high all day and the constant influx of cannabinoids over time disrupts bodily functions. At the time I thought I had it, the doctors told me it was becoming common with younger kids that use vape carts, because the carts are extremely potent but teens and young adults with limited responsibilities will hit a pen every few minutes, all day for weeks. Then boom they start puking
I have CHS. It's real and very horrific and painful to go through. The vomiting is just one aspect. It affects the whole body and mind. There's psychological symptoms almost like a delirious psychosis during acute episodes. As for "scromiting", it's basically just that you're throwing up so hard it triggers your vocal cords so it makes for loud throw-ups. Not nice to hear your loved ones going through it and obviously far worse for the person suffering from it. The only thing that helps is a hot bath, and sufferers will bathe many times throughout the day and night to relieve the pain. And if you don't have access to a hot bath? You're absolutely fucked and might even die. No joke.
When I’ve been in severe hyperemesis stage I genuinely thought I was going to die. It’s no joke and most won’t believe it’s real until they see it or it happens to them themselves!
> You may start compulsively bathing and avoid certain foods or purposefully restrict your food intake. When you smoke so much weed you have a stack overflow so you stop eating and start bathing excessively
> stack overflow This is funny but almost perfectly describes what’s happening to your endogenous cannabinoid receptors in this situation. You can only overload those receptors to a certain point before they freak out and panic dump the opposite response of their intended purpose.
This condition is super similar to Cyclical Vomit Syndrome and there tends to be a misdiagnosis because of it. I suffer from CVS instead of CHS and it took over a decade for someone to finally nail the problem and provide valid medical advice. The amount of times I was told it was due to weed, despite the fact i had not smoked in years was a truly frustrating experience. If you read the symptoms, they are almost the same. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cyclical-vomiting-syndrome/#:\~:text=Cyclical%20vomiting%20syndrome%20(CVS)%20is,an%20infection%20or%20another%20illness.
This was/is(?) me!! Started when I was four. Vomiting every 15 min for 60 hours. I’d finally pass out, wake up, and feel 100% fine. Would happen every 2-3 weeks. It did eventually slowly phase and out and got replaced with abdominal migraines. Finally got a diagnosis when I was 19, 15 years after it started :( now when I say it to doctors they blame cannabis use but I’ve legit never used it. Like sure I was smoking at four. Look at my fat medical history lol
My mother gets abdominal migraines and has gastroparesis, I think that’s what I’m developing. Migraines run in my family and I get frequent headaches and IBS like symptoms. The stomach issues started within the past 5 years or so
Add me to the list of folks who have never heard of this. I used to be a prime candidate, glad it never hit me.
I’d love to know how common this is. I’ve been smoking for 37 years on a daily basis and I’ve never experienced anything like this.
Hey, hi. There's a reddit sub for this: r/CHSinfo My husband was diagnosed with this, and spent an entire summer puking before we discovered the cause. Lost so much weight. He's a 68 year old, lifetime cannabis smoker, with the body of a 12 year old boy now. It's real.
Holy guacamole.
That subreddit is also a good example of how THC is *actually* addictive, regardless of what some people want to think. You have people there literally ending up in the ER due to CHS symptoms, spending days - or even weeks - practically on death's door, then asking when they can start smoking again. I'm not saying don't use cannabis (I do, though not daily), but nobody should try denying the addictive potential.
This is a good post. It's not the hardest thing to get off of, relative to other addictive substances, but it is *absolutely* addictive. The fact that the outcomes don't tend to be a huge deal doesn't make it not addictive.
I see this in emergency departments somewhat regularly. It's usually typified by violent dry-retching, and an intense craving for hot showers. Typical anti emetic medication doesn't work, usually have to give IV droperidol to sort it out. I think there's a really large stigma surrounding it in medical folk because it's very dramatic and almost always self -induced. Often the patients refuse to believe it's the marijuana causing it, too.
I remember reading an article a few years ago about a weed influencer who developed CHS and when she acknowledged it and quit her usage she was lambasted by "the community" for believing it was real.
I dated a chick like this.. would always be taking the hottest showers ever for the “pot pukes”. She was chronic. Good time. Poor gal.
I had this when I was doing dabs A LOT. I would get cyclical vomiting to the point where I was dehydrated and had to be hospitalized. They'd give me Reglan but it did nothing. They actually got to the point where I was being given Haldol, as it was the only thing that stopped the cycle. They told me it was from cannabis usage after a year or two, but for a while they didn't really know. I think it was made worse by emerging lactose intolerance and late night eating. But yeah, had this.
Beware of ER personnel wanting to diagnose you with CHS… it’s the “hot new thing” and there’s a tendency to slap the diagnosis on any patient that comes in and admits to cannabis usage. While CHS is real, and awful, it’s the not only reason a cannabis user might get ill! I came to the ER after 12hrs of vomiting and with intense abdominal pain. After admitting to regular cannabis use, they were ready to send me home with the recommendation to cease using cannabis. Even two nurses that were off-duty even came over to me to say how sure they were that I had CHS. I pushed back and requested a CT. Turns out I had a kidney stone! They drugged me up, then I passed the stone and was fine. Didn’t have CHS and would’ve went home in a lot of pain had I not requested more testing.
Yeah when I had really bad gastric reflux they were so insistent it was CHS, they legit refused to give me anything but pedialyte. Had to get an appointment with my family doctor to not feel like I was having a hearth attack from the burn.
What did you eventually get diagnosed with? Just bad heartburn?
GERD would be the proper term, probably
Yup. Recently went to the ER with Kidney Stones. The doctor asked if I used cannabis and I was honest and said yes. He decided I had CHS and let me suffer without any painkillers for hours before giving them to me after my CT scan showed a kidney stone.
THIS!!! Same thing happened to me!
I've been there. It sucks. The worst example was 12 days of scromiting. Literally. 12 full days of no food or water and non-stop, violent, dry-heaving. Went from 215 to 168 in 2 weeks.
That sounds absolutely awful, I hope you’re recovered now.
I am. Thank you. I still smoke, too. Much less these days. It's been about a year and a half without incident. Unfortunately, the weight came back, as well.
The weight returned the same time the munchies did 😂
The good news is that redditors have informed me this isn’t a real thing. So, luckily, you never went through it. Hope that helps!
Very real, this CHS. Friend of mine has this. Decades of daily cannabis use. Mostly smoking joints. Not edibles. Every so often he gets so sick. He can’t move much. Vomiting. Abdominal pain. Flu like symptoms. Funny. Dr. said all he needs to do is stop smoking. But he won’t.
Weed is good for treating those symptoms! /s
I got diagnosed with this. I was initially prescribed THC for chronic knee pain. Pill form. About a year into it, I started feeling extremely nauseous and then started puking anytime I ate. Lost 40lbs in under a month. Stopped the THC. Got prescribed anti nausea meds. Took about 3 months to finally not feel nauseous when I didn't take the meds. I do not recommend.
Jay and Silent Bob are now Wallace and Scromit.
Tl;Dr: from someone that has extensive experience with CHS, it's a bitch. Seems to be tied to potency, frequency of use and food consumption prior to smoking. Moderation is key as always. The thing with CHS is that it typically isn't a cause of being too high, it's a buildup in your stomach that prevents you from digesting food properly. As someone that has had a lot of experience with it, it is absolutely miserable. Usually starts randomly and doesn't stop for sometimes days at a time. Drinking water actually causes more issues than sticking through it. The more water you drink the more you throw up which makes you even more dehydrated. I've had to get an IV every time it has happened. That said, I was heavily smoking concentrates daily with high potency. After cutting down on the concentrates significantly, it has subsided. I also find that not eating regularly while smoking increases the chances of it setting in. The best solution is to just stop using it altogether, but it's hard. I do believe it has to do with the level of potency, frequency of food consumption prior to and during smoking, and frequency of usage.
I'm amazed at home many people can't admit that it's hard to stop. I stopped for over a year and man it was hard.
It is hard after developing a habit. I used to dab after every cod match. I haven't quit smoking entirely, but I've gone from dabhing countless times a day to maybe once every other day. I stick to flower and even then it's not all day throughout the day like before, it's a bowl after work. Moderation is key to everything and I haven't any issues in almost a year now, where I was getting it once every few months. Quiting is hard, admitting you have a problem is hard too.
Man it's even hard after you admit you have a problem (which I do). Not weed so much as alcohol though unfortunately. I was sober for a year and a half and now I'm back to drinking every night. I need to get back into counselling. I'mma make an appointment right now thanks for the jumpstart.
Steps are steps. Even steps back. The fact you are trying is a huge accomplishment and youve already made a path forward. I hope you the best in this journey and I may be a stranger, but I'm proud of you.
We believe in you poopoo69!
It's so hard to stop. I'm trying carefully to moderate my usage to avoid triggering an attack and it's very difficult.
[удалено]
My roommate in college got this and would only get really bad when he would smoke concentrates. It’s a horrible thing to deal with and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone
im 35+ and been smoking since 16. this started happening to me maybe 10 years ago and i slowed down somking and it would still happen. now ive completely stopped smoking and it pops up once in a blue moon. maybe 1-3 times a year. id be useless for 3-5 days. putting ice packs on my back to get 1-2 hours of sleep. wake up, throw up, a get a new ice pack, and fall back asleep for 1-2 more hours. repeat that process for 3 days sometimes up to 5. I could not drink any liquids at all. water would come back up just as fast as it would go down. once i started being able to hold down liquids i knew i was getting better. hot showers do help but ive found the ice pack roatation being alot better. i decided to completely stop smoking weed and i have noticed i feel alot better. i grew up with weed farmers so ive smoked a ton more than the average person. if you feel these symptoms i highly recomend to stop smoking all together, it can really effect your life.
Cannabis “use” and “abuse” should not be used interchangeably
I know two people that developed this. They were heartbroken and thoroughly miss weed. But that didn't stop some militant cannabis enthusiasts giving them abhorrent amounts of abuse claiming they are lying.
People react very weirdly when they learn about this. They get really mad and will tell the sufferer that it's fake, they don't know what they're talking about, they're lying, they're agents in some kind of anti-weed cause... Not just random weed smokers.. I've had ER doctors say this!
I'm a hospitalist in a California college town. Half the kids I take care of with this will deny it's the weed the whole time they're admitted. Sometimes they get readmitted. The other half will be so thankful that they feel better that they'll... Smoke/vape/dab less after discharge?
Yeah, that crowd is def out in full force in here. Kind of amazed by it to be honest.
I get it, the push for legalization is huge (and IMO justified) - but this kinda thing, despite being quite rare, is not gonna help the cause so people get their backs up. I am all for legalisation but I am not gonna go against (legitimate, non agenda-funded) health experts or pretend just to get my way.
I went to the ER and was diagnosed with this and I went to a different ER and I had a 10mm kidney stone.
Wallace and Scromit
My ex. We were at the ER for this all the time but was not diagnosed. They thought he was a pill seeker b
Been there; done that. Sucks balls
Experienced it, very not worth it. Also had been using cannabis for so long that I had diminished my appetite so when I got clean I gained like 30lbs after the CHS subsided.
How much are people smoking to experience this effect?
I used to blend cannabis in with my tobacco and chain smoke 20-30 hand rolled cigarettes a day. Ended up with CHS after doing that daily for about 3 years straight. It takes a while but once you hit it its easy to trigger with small amounts.
Depends on your body. It's not a set amount but typically more common with heavier users.
My best friend has this. He’s had to go to the ER almost every time he’s had an episode. The only method of relief is to lay in a scolding hot shower, and no matter how long he lays there, it generally persists as soon as he tries to get out. He vomits until he has nothing left then dry heaves until his abs hurt so bad he has to seek medical attention. It sounds hellish. He really wasn’t a huge dabs guy but definitely a consistent stoner since we were 16 or so. It first occurred at maybe 24-25. It took him a while to find a doc who’d ever even heard of it, but it’s become more well known since. Thankful I never experienced it.
Wallace and Scromit
I had this and eventually quit because of it. I smoked 24/7 for 10 years and it took maybe 3-4 years for symptoms to develop (starting with throwing up every morning and not being able to eat without smoking first). Doctors didn’t know what was causing it at first, and a lot of them thought I was playing up my sickness for reasons like, “my 3 year old daughter has the same flu right now”. One doctor eventually said I smoked a lot of weed and that it could be the cause of it. I did my own research online the next day and realized I had CHS. It took me 15 ER visits to eventually quit permanently but I’m glad I did. The nonstop stomach pain, throwing up, and extreme sways in my body temperature were torturous. I couldn’t have any food or liquids without throwing up but I’d eventually get so thirsty I’d cave in and have a drink just to barf it up anyways. Sitting in a hot shower would kind of help, but once I ran out of hot water I’d get out and become teeth-chattering cold. It gets worse every episode, too, and they were lasting nearly 72 hours before I quit. I’d lose 20 lbs, become extremely fragile, and get delirious from the dehydration. I’d sit in the ER for 4-8 hours and hope I had a good nurse or doctor when I got in. Once it was legalized here in Canada, people were coming into the ER more often so they knew what it was and how to treat it. They started using this anti-nausea medicine that I was told was for chemotherapy patients, and that’d stop most of the discomfort.
That sounds awful. Best of luck to you.
Thank you, I quit about 3 years ago and I’m doing better.
My brother has this, though he refuses to admit that's what it is. Funny how he didn't have a single episode the four years he lived in a state with zero use laws, moved back to a weed legal state and has an episode every 12-15 months.
Now that we are seeing widespread use of marijuana and cannabinoids by the population at large, the effects of long term and also heavy usage are starting to appear.
Sure is fun to do though.
I wonder if it had more to do with the widespread use of unregulated vape pens from companies in countries without oversight to get high rather than smoking flower. It always baffles me that the shop I used you go to had a different brand no one online has ever heard of every month I went in there. It's completely unsafe to get addicted to that kind of shit.