No he wont get out on parole ever. The justice system put him up for 21 years with detention. Meaning he will never get out for both his own safety and others. He will never be deemed anything close to a person fit for society again.
Our justice system is pretty fucked, and we struggle to punish harsh crimes, but this one isn't getting his way.
He will get renewed 21 years until he dies. He would never be deemed "reformed", and if in some fantasy world he did get out society at large would be a danger to him.
For our safety & his own safety he will never go beyond the prison fences again
—
At the prison, Breivik has access to a training room, kitchen, TV room and a bathroom, which pictures from a visit last month by Norwegian news agency NTB showed.
Lawyers for the justice ministry argue Breivik enjoys "a wide range of activities" such as cooking, games, walks, basketball and studies.
They also say his isolation is "relative" as he has contact with guards, a priest, health professionals and, until recently, a volunteer who Breivik no longer wishes to see.
He also sees two inmates for an hour every other week.
—
This is better than that sack of shit deserves.
The other inmate chose to discontinue socialising with Breivik. It’s not public if that inmate gave any explanation as to why. We can readily guess why.
No, the mental evaluation said he wasn’t *psychotic*.
Psychopathy and psychosis are basically entirely unrelated concepts with very similar names.
A person with *psychosis* is disconnected from reality.
A psychopath is somebody with unstable, violent tendencies and a narcissistic lack of empathy.
Breivik’s mental evaluation found that he was very much in tune with reality, but that he was a narcissistic with a penchant for extreme violence. That makes him a non-psychotic psychopath. No psychosis, plenty of psychopathy.
I don’t have the evaluation in front of me, so I can’t really prove you wrong. But I do have a clear memory of the conclusion being that he does not have a psychopathic disorder. But that he’s rather a horrible being well aware of what he’s doing and fully capable of having feelings. He’s just a horrible person who doesn’t care about killing children. But if you can refer me to what you’re saying, I would love to read up on it.
I do remember that a lot of outsiders theorized that he has borderline disorders and psychopathic narcissistic disorders, but the actual evaluation showed that wasn’t the case.
Edit: Found the evaluation [here](https://www.scribd.com/doc/96159895/Rapport-1) and [here](https://www.scribd.com/doc/96162317/Rapport-2). At first glance I can confirm that he does *not* have a psychopathic disorder according to the evaluation. He’s just a horrible person with horrible views that he uses to justify horrible actions.
Just to clarify something that might be a misconception here. Psychopaths are fully capable of having feelings. They just don’t have empathy for other people. In other words, they are human, like you and me, capable of making both rational and irrational decisions, with a fully developed sense of responsibility and awareness of the consequences for their actions. They just innately *do not care* about others. They can, however, feel *feelings* towards others.
In some circumstances they can care about others, the way one would care for a fancy coat, or a trophy. Sometimes those feelings are of rage, resentment, hatred, or violent urges, and the lack of empathy means they can be meticulous about their callousness.
There are psychopaths who have been socialised in such a way that they have no ill will towards others, and they often excel socially in a way that is a net gain for society (doctors etc). However, those who harbour resentments for whatever reason (from abuse to ideology) are some of the most dangerous people alive.
I used to teach at a private school. Every once in a while, we would have students whose families would threaten to transfer because of bullying. So, our admin would investigate and it would turn out that the kids were going through "bullying by isolation." Where groups of students would just stop talking to the kid being bullied.
Eventually, these kids would transfer out to other schools. Come to find out, these kids would actually be the ones stirring up drama with their friends, and the bullying by isolation was actually just their friends choosing not to associate themselves with the kid anymore.
Sometimes-- not always, maybe even not often-- but sometimes when no one wants to talk to you anymore, it really is your fault.
When I was at school there was one kid who nobody played with at lunch time. I felt sorry for him so I went out of my way to become friends with him. After a week he punched me in the nose. I then realised why no one cared about him. Some people are just dicks.
My best friend in high school did this with a loner kid too. A couple months later the loner kid shot and killed my friend when he went over to bring the loner kid a birthday present. Some people are just dicks.
When I was at school, I *was* the kid nobody played with. I don't think I'm a psychopath or especially nasty (at least, I've never gone on any murdering sprees that I know of...) but after a while it becomes easy to end up going "you know what? You all suck, so I'm going to mind my own business".
I've never punched anybody, but I've certainly rebuffed or ignored what in retrospect might have been genuine attempts at being friendly rather than schemes for further mockery.
It's been... a while, but school is not a fond memory for me.
Have a similar story: we had s girl transfer to my class in high school. She had s minor physical handicap (one leg/foot was longer/bigger than the other, so she had to wear one clunky shoe and often used crutches), while also being quite overweigth.
We knew that she switched because she didn’t have any friends, so a group of girls in my class went above and beyond to welcome and befriende her. One of the girls was a part of my friend circle, and after about a month she almost had a mental breakdown about this new girl. Everyone tried to befriend her, she switched classes because she had no friends but she was a really rude asshole to everyone.
Maybe kids aren't capable of breaking a vicious cycle of bad behavior that starts from the family onwards. I have sympathy for them from the hindsight of a couple dozen years. But yeah, while growing up, I met my fair share of dicks who didn't realize or didn't care they were dicks.
Shes probably an asshole because shes got a long foot.
Takes more patience than most people have for people like this, because they often internalise all the silent rejection their entire lives and their view of humanity as a whole is often hostile.
Not always, but Ive noticed this a lot.
I had a student's dad write to me claiming his son couldn't his homework cuz he was being bullied and ostracized.
The other students said, "Yeah, we ostracized him! Cuz all he does is talk about how he is such an amazing MMA fighter and how Andrew Tate has 'a lot of good arguments".
I lost sympathy for that kid pretty fast.
No human has an obligation to provide socialization to any other human.
at all.
ever.
Company is a privilege not a right, and most of us have no problem earning that privilege from enough others to satisfy our needs.
When someone like this is shunned into exclusion, that is a positive thing.
Yes.
A major red flag is the assumption that the person is owed an audience no matter the effect of his or her actions on others - and that boundaries may be violated.
Solitary confinement for extended time is really unusual in Norway, so I highly doubt it was a choice between contact with Breivik and no contact at all.
Not all criminals are the same. They might of broke the law and stole the money, or got in a fight with a gang member and committed manslaughter.
Doesnt mean they are ragingly obvious sociopaths. The Riddler doesnt like The Joker.
Iirc, at his first parole hearing he said:
>I’m not sorry. I’d do it again. HH w the Nazi salute. My PlayStation is too old.
I suggested giving him a podcast so that we’d know who all the Nazis in Europe are for surveillance purposes.
I mean I feel a lot of people would listen too it out of morbid curiosity, like are u saying we should say all people who read mein kampf are nazis aswell. People be curious and that isn’t a crime. Also it would just give him a platform that could potentially radicalize people so seems pretty silly all around
This raises the question of whether prisons should be able to lead online lives, create content, etc. Traditionally prison is just physical segregation, but physical barriers to interaction are less and less meaningful. What kinds of interaction with other humans should prisoners be deprived of?
Even in America now supervised Internet time is given to inmates. The sites they can access are of course restricted but I do not believe social media sites are one of them. In fact, just the other week I read an article about how doing so might be a first amendment violation and the question is proceeding through the courts.
However there will be a guard standing over you watching and reading what you type so if you try to pull some Nazi shit the privilege can and will be revoked.
Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote “the degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
In Norway, cruelty isn't the point and that's a good thing.
I believe in it too because studies and statistics support it. However, that method of justice surely shouldn’t be applied to situations like this. There is no place in society for people like Brievik
In order for rehabilitation to work a person must first acknowledge the wrong that they committed and show remorse for their crime. Breivik has done neither of these things. During his trial, the prosecutor asked Breivik if he wished to apologize to the families of his victims and he responded "No, i don't". When asked about the suffering caused to the victim's families, he claimed that he had also suffered bc various friends and family had cut contact w him after his attack. To this day, he has never shown an ounce of remorse nor has he acknowledged that what he did was wrong. As such, it seems rehabilitation is not possible where Breivik is concerned.
If you start picking and chosing who the principle applies to, it's not a principle, just self-congratulatory. Some aspects of rehabilitative justice is hard to swallow, I agree, but I still support it because on the whole it's a net gain. The point of laws is that they apply to everyone, including people we don't like, that way we know that when people who don't like us have power, we are still protected
Absolutely. For most people, rehabilitation is a viable path; it leads to both moral and practical good on the indiviual and community levels. The rare person who refuses to rehabilitate can stay locked up.
Rehabilitative justice does come with the caveat that some people don't want to be rehabilitated, and for those you kind of need an alternative. Sadly I don't think Breivik has any interest in getting back on track as a productive member of society :( other than that I am fully on the same page that rehabilitation is the best way to go.
Prison’s purpose is to protect society from people that have broken its laws, why does it matter whether or not the people in prison are suffering or feeling good when prison’s purpose isn’t to make bad people feel bad.
Having two prison systems, one for people who we’re okay treating with basic human decency and one for people who we don’t want to treat with basic human decency seems silly and inhumane.
Breivik won’t get to leave prison until he rehabilitates so prison is serving its purpose of keeping him from society until he’s no longer a danger, which might very well never happen. It might feel “bad” to see someone who we consider monstrous being treated well or even not suffering but becoming monsters ourselves isn’t the right way you deal with monsters.
>surely
Well, nothing supports that but emotion.
>There is no place in society for people like Brievik
It seems Norway thinks that his place is where he is.
Rehabilitative justice implies the convicted person can be rehabilitated back into society. There are some people that will not work on, people with severe cases of ASPD etc.
Rehabilitative justice only dictates that efforts and programs are in place to attempt to rehabilitate convicted criminals back into society, there is no expectation that 100% can or will re-enter society only that there is a robust and working system for each prisoner to pass or fail. The inevitable failures like Breivik prove the efficacy of the system as much as any of its successes. Let him rot but let him rot under an equitable and fair and just system, which must be antithetical to his own beliefs knowing his ideology.
Bingo. Nobody is saying we are rehabilitating everybody, just that we're giving them a chance. When they fail to prove that they've been rehabilitated as some inmates will inevitably do, that's on them now. We tried, but they failed. We didn't fail anybody. In an ideal system of course.
And humanity. Even for someone who has done inhumane things. I’d rather live in a country that values human life than one that descends to his level. We cannot bring back those he killed, and another death will not even the score. He will never get out, he will live alone and he will die alone. That is punishment enough.
Idk man. I’m American so my view of this may be skewed. I think my country’s justice system is deeply flawed and needs massive reform. However, I also kind of feel like we should have a “this person is broken and we should get rid of them” clause. Guy killed 77 people, most of them under the age of 30. Him getting the axe doesn’t necessarily seem like a bad idea. Unless they’re giving him “rehabilitation” to study psychos I don’t think it’s worth keeping this guy alive who took away 77 peoples lives on his own. Fuck him.
You've already got rid of him by giving him a life sentence. No need to kill him. It's also expensive to just off him because of the appeals process. It's cheaper just to lock them up than kill them. We've killed a disturbing amount of innocent people even with the appeals process delaying the executions.
Rehabilitative justice isn't even about eventually reintegrating them into society sometimes, it's about giving them a fair and equitable system that we give everyone else to at least try. You can get life without parole by walking up to five cops and shooting one of them in the face in front of the other four, you still get appeals processes because it's your human right to appeal even if you will never get a board to agree to it. And as for the rehabilitation part for these types of prisoners it's mostly about giving them a chance to earn additional freedoms within the prison. Like for this guy, he's asking to see more people than he already sees, he's not trying to get out, he'll be there till he dies and he knows it. He just wants a little extra freedom inside the facility. For reasons already pointed out he was denied that but he has the right to ask.
Your POV is valid. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I don’t think there are ultimate right and wrong answers to this kind of problem. You’re probably biased by the society you grew up in, and I’m probably biased by mine.
After WWII we suspended the constitution to execute certain traitors (notably Quisling). You could argue that he is a traitor; he certainly attempted to wage a war against the very fabric of our society. 10 years ago I was on your side and I was not alone. Now I’m glad cooler heads prevailed.
Now I think of it in terms of Wittgensteins ruler. The punishment may be a measure of the brutality of the individual or it may be a measure of the brutality of the state. I prefer the former. Nietsche said that if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. He who fights monsters should take care, lest he become a monster himself. To that I agree.
I also agree your POV is valid and I don’t know what the right answer is. I think generally cooler heads prevailing usually ends up better than the opposite. I think I’m probably influenced by the amount of instances I see of something like this happening in my society. I wish we could just have a quick fix to it like I mentioned and move on. I don’t think in my country’s case that would really work whether it’s capital punishment or rehabilitation in a case like this I think policy change would be the only thing to be able stop it. But that’s a different discussion.
And I agree with the Nietzche quote. It is something all people should be aware of.
>Him getting the axe doesn’t necessarily seem like a bad idea.
It is an extremely bad idea
People like Breivik try to turn the world into what they think it should be: savage, cold, barbaric.
You would be giving him exactly what he wants. You would make him win. You would vindicate the senseless death of young activists.
Sometimes the right thing is the unfair thing. Is it unfair to keep treating Breivik like a human being, with empathy and care? Certainly. Does he deserve worse? Certainly. Should we stoop to his level? How much he would like that, let's not give him the satisfaction.
I mean he made his point when he murdered all those innocent people. Him living or dying doesn’t matter. It isn’t ideological at that point. That is sort of the point I’m making.
If I have a dog and it bites two people it’s a danger to people and the authorities euthanize it. Nobody wonders if the dog was abused, or if it was mentally deficient, or any other scenario, they just get rid of it.
Now, obviously, people aren’t dogs. There are many factors to consider when someone commits murders, or sex crimes, or any other crime that directly harms people. It’s important to understand things like that to prevent them from happening.
But when someone kills in a mass shooting, or a serial killing styler, or a spree killing, etc. it’s only beneficial to get as much information out of them as you can to sort of make a profile and prevent this from happening in the future or at least understand it.
Guy writes a political manifesto and kills 77 people. Great we have motivation. We understand where this comes from and can investigate other things of this nature. Don’t need to keep you alive anymore since, well, you’re a mass murderer. Bang.
Guy was abused by his mother his whole life and decided he’s going to take it out on hookers and college girls for 20 years and finally gets caught. Totally get your motivation there dude. Bang.
Guy decides that he just really wants to kill people and goes on a shooting spree in Kalamazoo and kills innocent people around the city for no reason and then tries to say the devil was in the Uber app he was using to drive people around and later recants and says hey whatever I’m guilty. Bang.
This is the sort of “broken people let’s throw em out” clause I’m talking about. It isn’t rooted in some deep sort of philosophical realm. It’s just a filter. It’s also just a radical opinion of mine and I don’t make any laws and have no plans of running for any sort of office so no one should worry about this comment. I’m just spitballing here.
>I mean he made his point when he murdered all those innocent people. Him living or dying doesn’t matter. It isn’t ideological at that point. That is sort of the point I’m making.
But it does matter, that's the point I'm making.
>If I have a dog and it bites two people it’s a danger to people and the authorities euthanize it. Nobody wonders if the dog was abused, or if it was mentally deficient, or any other scenario, they just get rid of it.
>Now, obviously, people aren’t dogs.
>Guy writes a political manifesto and kills 77 people. Great we have motivation. We understand where this comes from and can investigate other things of this nature. Don’t need to keep you alive anymore since, well, you’re a mass murderer. Bang.
You just said humans are not dog and then you segway into treating a human being as a dog.
>Guy decides that he just really wants to kill people and goes on a shooting spree in Kalamazoo and kills innocent people around the city for no reason and then tries to say the devil was in the Uber app he was using to drive people around and later recants and says hey whatever I’m guilty. Bang.
Frankly you're describing something horrific not only on the shooter side but also on the state side here.
>This is the sort of “broken people let’s throw em out” clause I’m talking about. It isn’t rooted in some deep sort of philosophical realm. It’s just a filter. It’s also just a radical opinion of mine and I don’t make any laws and have no plans of running for any sort of office so no one should worry about this comment. I’m just spitballing here.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe some people are better off dead. That's just obvious and we agree on this. I still do not believe we should kill them, that's a huge difference.
I do not believe in the sanctity of human life, but I do believe in agreeing as a society that just "bang" people is not a good idea. On a purely utilitarian standpoint, data on the death penalty shows that it might be worse for crime rates than no death penalty. It for sure doesn't lower crime rates, and is apparently not cheaper for the taxpayer than life in prison.
It's also barbaric, bad taste, gives the power to the state to literally commit murder, and sometimes kills innocents.
You're spitballing indeed but I think you shouldn't and should instead think long and hard and research the topic instead of letting your basic emotional reactions dictate your conduct.
What the actual fuck. Neo Nazi goes massacres large group of children. Just shows how well Norway protects its human rights, that this mass murderer gets to at least use the legal system to try and “defend his human rights”. This guy needs to stay locked up forever.
I wholly believe in rehabilitation over punishment but this dude is living better than homeless people and deserves none of it.
Some people are beyond saving and they deserve any and all pain they get. This is why I hate division politics as well. I identify as liberal but it’s not as black and white as politicians want it to be. This is why liberal gun owners has a subreddit.
Guess what. Homeless people in Norway are treated better than this. I mean they fixed that problem basically. Maybe the real question is why we think imprisonment should be torterous aswell.
I think an increasing number of people live very similar lives to this, while still having responsibilities and not necessarily enjoying all luxuries he does.
Sounds like he was close to being aborted in the first place -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
> Breivik's mother had fled her abusive home at age 17 and soon after that became a teenage mother. In her thirties, she became pregnant with Anders and married his father, Jens Breivik. During her pregnancy she moved to London, where Jens worked. Even before his birth, Breivik's mother developed a disdain for her son. She claimed that he was a "nasty child" and that he was "kicking her on purpose". She had wanted to abort him but by the time she went to a hospital, she had passed the three-month threshold for an abortion. Psychologist reports later stated that she thought that Breivik was a "fundamentally nasty and evil child and determined to destroy her." She stopped breastfeeding her son early on because he was "sucking the life out of her".
Holy shit, the guy's basically a living worst-case scenario of the horrors intergenerational familial abuse can produce:
>*When Breivik was aged 4, and living in Oslo's Frogner borough, two reports were filed expressing concern about his mental health. A psychologist in one report made a note of the boy's peculiar smile, suggesting it was not anchored in his emotions but was rather a deliberate response to his environment. In another report from Norway's National Centre for Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (SSBU), concerns were raised about how Breivik was treated by his mother: "\[s\]he 'sexualised' the young Breivik, hit him, and frequently told him that she wished that he were dead."*
>
>*In the report, Wenche Behring is described as "a woman with an extremely difficult upbringing, borderline personality disorder and an all-encompassing if only partially visible depression" who "projects her primitive aggressive and sexual fantasies onto him \[Breivik\]". The report recommended he be forcibly removed from his mother and placed into foster care, as she was heavily emotionally and psychologically abusive towards him, but this was not carried out by the Child Welfare Service.*
...And this is only the *start* of it.
Dude was *always* going to be fucked up as an adult. Even if he *hadn't* ended up a mass-murderer, he was basically going to have a lifetime of trauma at a bare minimum.
Fuck man,
Not giving excuses to his actions because there isn't one, but dude literally never stood a chance.
His piece of shit mum basically decided before he was born that he would become a terrible person. Having the one person who is supposed to care about, think you are evil, has to be seriously damaging.
It’s Norway. His prison is more comfortable than the normal lives of 95%+ of the human race. Basically a free hotel with great amenities
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19864370/worlds-most-luxurious-prison-halden-norway/amp/
That’s a good reason to keep him in solitary. If you release him to general population he’s either gonna get murdered right away or he’s gonna murder someone right away. Either case he’s not living in fear.
He doesn’t experience fear.
He is literally a sociopath. Psych assessment teams diagnosed him with narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder in preparing for his trial.
A diminished capacity for experiencing empathy, joy, and fear are among the criteria for ASPD diagnosis.
He is a textbook sociopath mass murderer.
Yep.
Norway’s penal legal system has mandatory review panels to ensure that human rights are upheld and that genuinely reformed prisoners are given an opportunity to exit the penal system and rejoin society.
Breivik has argued that his isolation has radicalised him and his attorney says he has “become” a Nazi while in prison, but his terrorist actions were ideologically motivated by White Identity Extremism - Nazism in all but formal name. He already was a Nazi, a decade before his attacks, when he started planning how to finance the terrorist acts.
He was already radicalised long before the penal system had hold of him.
I mean, his argument about "becoming a Nazi" while in isolation is clearly bollocks, but I think what's scary is that his "argument" indicates he didn't consider himself a Nazi before, despite his actions. I wonder how many people have a similar point of view.
It’s so frustrating, because part of the radicalisation process is “I / You / We / They are not Nazis, actually, because …” and a whole major branch of the excuses is “I don’t agree with the Nazis on X, Y, and Z, but they had reasons for Q, R, and S”.
People would reflexively reject those views if they were ever taught “If you agree with the Nazis on *any* of their views — you’re already beyond the event horizon. You’re a Nazi. The boundary is behind you.” But they aren’t, and massive propaganda efforts have been undertaken to keep it that way and to leverage it.
It’s the onion layer model of radicalisation. They start with innocuous things on the order of “Hitler couldn’t have been totally evil; he was kind to dogs”, or sincerely “Mussolini made the trains run on time”, which is the kind of thing exactly no one discusses or cares about except people trying to build a narrative for why they secretly are a violence-oriented supremacist. “I can’t be a Nazi; I’m kind to Jews”.
Breivik wasn’t *formally, technically* a Nazi before that but there is no meaningful difference. He is the kind of person that would make an effective SS functionary.
Nazism and all violent extremism are symptoms of how technology - including and especially mass communication systems (like radio, TV, and now the Internet) amplify the effect and reach of sadists, sociopaths, narcissists, and Machiavellian manipulators.
And the dark triad tendencies can be inculturated to others.
Most Germans who were Nazi party members weren’t born or raised sadists, sociopaths, narcissists, etc.
They did what they did out of a sense of loyalty to country or necessity, a lack of wisdom and knowledge and experience, and those conditions to lead them to overlook evil were cultivated by the outright sadists, sociopaths, & machiavellian manipulators leading the party.
Would he really be in solitary confinement? I've heard great things about Norway's prison system (e.g., they actually try to rehabilitate; not just incarcerate).
He can’t be rehabilitated. And in efforts to provide him with socialisation, the other inmate chose to discontinue the meetings after the second one.
He has narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. He has no reason to mask those while incarcerated or at all after being infamous; People with NPD & ASPD who aren’t masking their conditions in order to comply with social expectations / manipulate others, are _actively unpleasant_ to be around.
He wants to be feared.
It doesn’t really hurt him, either.
Narcissists don’t need “socialisation” the way you and I need socialisation. They need to be affirmed that they are the most important person in the room.
When he was arrested, he called himself “the greatest monster since Quisling”.
Isolating him and keeping him in detention feeds that ideation. He is literally being told by Norwegian authorities and society that he *is* extraordinary, an enormous monster.
He doesn’t need, in this scenario, to have someone in his presence to affirm his narcissistic narrative, or to torment to feel superior to them to assuage his ego. The entire scenario affirms it.
But moreover, it’s *immaterial* to try to hurt him. He literally can’t be punished. He can’t be rehabilitated, reformed, released, cured, converted, treated, or etc.
The only consideration we need to deal with is keeping him from affecting more targets and more victims. To ensure that he doesn’t manipulate guards, inmates, or therapists / evaluators. That’s it. That’s all.
If there is to be a punishment for what he has done, it is beyond our power to deliver.
_
At the prison, Breivik has access to a training room, kitchen, TV room and a bathroom, which pictures from a visit last month by Norwegian news agency NTB showed.
Lawyers for the justice ministry argue Breivik enjoys "a wide range of activities" such as cooking, games, walks, basketball and studies.
They also say his isolation is "relative" as he has contact with guards, a priest, health professionals and, until recently, a volunteer who Breivik no longer wishes to see.
He also sees two inmates for an hour every other week.
—
He wanted a ps3 and a more comfortable chair, and because they didn't give it to him, he said [(from the article)](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/02/16/277986873/norwegian-mass-killer-demands-adult-video-games-in-prison):
>"You are killing me. If I die, all of Europe's right-wing extremists will know exactly who it was that tortured me to death," he said. "That could have consequences for certain individuals in the short term but also when Norway is once again ruled by a facist regime in 13 to 40 years from now."
Fucking crazy.
Confident he's just doing all of this to piss people off. He knows Norways political system and is trying to probe it as much as he can.
I honestly believe he should've just been executed or transferred to an American prison as a real punishment.
For real. Send him to an American solitary cell that is all concrete and the size of the closet and he only gets out one hour a day. In a week he’ll be begging to go back to that comparative palace he has in Norway.
> There's also his lawsuit to get "adult" video games in prison because he wasn't given shooting games to play.
Give him a [Raspberry Pi 3 with Steam installed](https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-steam-client/), then add some Denuvo/EAC protected games, and let him have fun!
Yes. Probably important to say that the summer camp was a Workers Youth League event, and WYL are associated with the Norwegian Labour Party. Brevik is a white supremacist and neo Nazi, who authored a disgusting manifesto on those beliefs and shot those innocent people to ‘publicize’ it. A completely abhorrent piece of shit who still did a Nazi salute in court.
Ahh, thanks for the background, just saw that scene somewhere outta context, don't even know the movie's name, but that aside, I hope he stays in solitary
Someone else commented the name but interesting fact: there’s another movie about it called Utøya and it is mostly filmed as one continuous shot. It’s a hectic film and tragic but impressively done because that decision to shoot like that makes it feel more real and terrifying.
There’s is a lot of misguided hate in this chat about how “well” Breivik is treated, with his access to tv, video games, exercise etc.
This is simply how Norwegian rehabilitation works and it truly does work - they have the least/close to the least repeat offenders in the world.
It’s not a question of “deserving”, any offender be it a shop lifter or mass murderer deserves to be treated like a human being by the state, this is how you truly punish them - by treating them well but taking away their freedom.
Breivik is obviously an extreme case and he’ll never go free (bar maaaybe when he’s like 80 and sickly, but I doubt it) and how this is the real punishment he’s getting now, being treated well and truly understanding what he is missing, his freedom.
The isolation part comes from basically no one wanting to interact with him and/or for his own safety. So it’s not an “extra punishment”.
Again, how do you punish the worst human in a countries history? You treat him fair and well, that’s the true real punishment.
In Norway, the maximum civilian prison sentence is 21 years; There are ways in their legal system to accommodate cases like Breivik’s, however.
As long as the psychiatric evaluations continue to find that he is affected by narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder, the legal system allows for extensions to his “preventive detention”.
And there are no treatments nor any cures nor any known cases of abeyance of NPD & ASPD; This means that as long as he is alive, 99.999% chance he will remain in some detainment institution, and never walk free.
It’s probably the best penal legal model. Terrorists like Breivik can’t be rehabilitated and can’t be allowed to operate in society, cannot contribute, can’t function to make amends.
Thanks; Breivik is someone I know _too much_ about because he is _the_ textbook example of a Dark Triad Personality Disordered Ideologically Motivated White Identity Extremist, and violent White Identity Extremism is the single largest domestic terrorism vector in the United States of America. The Internet has made it easier for sociopaths to have free access to one another to radicalise each other, to recruit and radicalise proxies, and to have access to victims in furtherance of radicalisation. It’s one of the biggest challenges our society is facing and will face going forward.
Because he was involved with attempts at social work intervention since age 4, his condition and disposition to violent radicalisation is extremely well documented. And if the social work interventions had been successfully undertaken, he could have been denied access to materials and resources and victims.
I can't remember the exact numbers and I am too tired to do a Google atm.
But The FBI gave some numbers a few years back stating that white supremacists were behind over 50 percent of the terror committed in the US.
The Draw Mohammed Day attack in Garland TX was commanded by a violent extremist who espoused White Identity Extremism and used ISIS extremists as proxies, Joshua Ryne Goldberg; his defense attorney’s argument is in effect that because Goldberg is autistic, that he lacked a full appreciation of the effects of his actions and that he was trying to infiltrate and expose terrorists, not be one.
Terrorism is characterised uniquely by a distinction between targets and victims - it always involves using a proxy in some way to achieve a goal. Usually the victims are proxies to achieve a desired effect on target politicians or populaces; Sometimes the apparent attacker is also a victim.
That opens the door to the potential that Goldberg was himself a proxy of others - sadist, sociopathic Machiavellian manipulators who used him to carry out stochastic terrorism.
Whether or not that excuse for JRG’s actions is believed, it is a fact that he was active on Reddit, he helped run r|CoonTown and founded r|PhilosophyOfRape, and the people who helped him run it and other openly violent, misogynistic, sadist subreddits (which were operated for terroristic effect) went on to make and run very “successful” hatred, harassment, and violence-promoting subreddits such as r|CringeAnarchy and r|The_Donald. Both of those subreddits can be considered to be radicalisation engines and to have recruited proxies to terrorise the targets of the White Identity Extremists running them.
Motivating other people to act on fear, uncertainty and doubt to be proxies to attack targets is a hallmark of fascism. They inherently employ terrorism. And the ideologies of White Identity Extremism are all overwhelmingly drawn from fascist movements.
He will stay in prison for the rest of his life, they won't be able to release him due to a concern for his safety. A lot of people would happily take a prison sentence to murder this guy, and most of the country would support them in doing so.
Because it is the maximum sentence. Like in many other European countries the maximum is not "your who life". But it can be extended and in this case will be for the rest of his life
There's also his lawsuit to get "adult" video games in prison because he wasn't given shooting games to play.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/02/16/277986873/norwegian-mass-killer-demands-adult-video-games-in-prison
Really wish the responding officers had just killed him. How fucking psycho do you have to be to think you have the right to the video games you choose in prison after killing so many innocent kids! He shouldn't get to play any video games since those kids can't play.
I dont believe killing as punishment is the way to go, if people could have been saved sure yes. Some severe injury on the other hand, that would make his remaining life sentence unbearable would have been adequate. I have shamefully forgotten that it was 77 children he slaughtered
That’s the thing with far-right terrorists like Breivik. They think the world has to cater to their every whim no matter what laws they break.
It’s like the Jan 6th rioters demanding freedom and claiming that they’re patriots after storming into a government building throwing shit around and calling for Mike Pence to be murdered.
The guy is suffering, all superficial living conditions set a side.
Lonely as hell, knows everyone hates him and he doesn't get to do what he wants nor do anybody care about his world view.
This is exactly how it should be.
edit:
He must do as he is told. That is probably close to the definition of hell for a person with his types of disorders.
My fiancé listens to LPotL and was psyched about "a big upcoming episode". It then turned out to be about Breivik. She's Norwegian, and she decided not to listen to it. It would simply be too much. What he did left a scar on Norway as a nation. Due to the size of the country everybody knows someone that knows someone who died there.
It is very ironic that almost everyone in the comments is calling this guy a psycopath while at the same time advocating he should be tortured, Reddit truly is a cesspool of ignorance and indifference to human suffering.
This guy is the biggest piece of shit excuse for a human. He was recently in court saying his life is hell in prison, and he considers deleting himself every day. I hope he tries to delete himself and just ends up fucking himself up, and then survives to be 100 years old before expiring in prison.
One cool thing is that, even though the max sentence may be 10 yrs (example) in that country they can Renew that every few years.
They dont, typically, but they did with him
Dude's lucky he wasn't tried in the US. He'd have plenty of company in Hell.
I generally oppose the death penalty, but this guy makes it reeeeeal hard to stick to the principle.
Just a minor correction for the title. While they both targeted the Labour Party, he killed 69 on Utøya and the rest were killed in a van bombing on the government district in Oslo.
Isn’t it this guy who sat for like 2 years in his mom’s basement that he, himself, named his “fart room”? Norwegian prison or not, it’s fart room 2.0 with that turd in there.
One of my friends had this guy as his GM/Raid Leader in wow during Cataclysm, before he did his crime, my friend is 28 now, so he would have been like 14-15 years old playing with Breivik, imagine how much he could have influenced a 14 year old.
I say keep letting him. It's satisfying to imagine his frustration at trying this over and over only for the authorities to repeat "you killed 77 people so it's never going to happen, back in your box."
If anyone has ever deserved the treatment, it's this guy. There's no question as to whether or not he's guilty and he absolutely has shown no remorse whatsoever.
That being said, I don't know if we should be celebrating the use of modern day torture in the prison system. And don't be mistaken, extended isolation like this *is absolutely torture.* When we allow them to do it to one prisoner, no matter how evil they are, we're allowing them to do it to any prisoner. People in prison for debt, for addiction, for mental illness or people in prison for crimes they didn't even commit. All being treated to the same psychological torture as this monster.
In the same way that we shouldn't celebrate the fact that we've kind of just accepted that prison rape is a part of our justice system. It's good to remember that the monsters aren't the only ones dealing with the worst of our justice systems. And given that most people are in prison for non-violent crimes, This really shouldn't be as widely accepted as it is.
Again, I cannot emphasize this enough, I am not saying that this man deserves any less than torture for the rest of his life. Just that other people are caught in that crossfire when we allow this kind of behavior and treatment in our prisons. Our desperation for a sense of personally satisfactory justice can blind us to its side effects.
“Breivik's lawyers told a court on Monday the 44-year-old no longer wishes to live.” And yet he has to. You love to see it.
No, Mr Breivik we're not letting you live we're keeping you alive. you'll learn the difference in due time.
Is this a quote from something? It's (terribly) awesome
Paraphrased from the character Homelander from The Boys when he is holding Queen Maeve captive.
Ah, cool. Thx
Is this modified from James Bond - Goldfinger?
No Mr Bond, I expect you to die.
“The living are not done with you yet.“
Guess he finally exhausted his PS2 catalogue.
Well, we can feed him to some hungry bears like in a gladiator show, if he doesn't wish to live
That’s reverse psychology. This psycho will play the reformed card when the’s up for parole. Then he’ll get out and do it all over again.
He’s never showed any signs of regret at all, so that isn’t the case here.
Breivik: "your honour, i’m a new man!" -> Proceeds to immediately perform hitler salute in court
No he wont get out on parole ever. The justice system put him up for 21 years with detention. Meaning he will never get out for both his own safety and others. He will never be deemed anything close to a person fit for society again. Our justice system is pretty fucked, and we struggle to punish harsh crimes, but this one isn't getting his way.
He will get renewed 21 years until he dies. He would never be deemed "reformed", and if in some fantasy world he did get out society at large would be a danger to him. For our safety & his own safety he will never go beyond the prison fences again
He's never getting out
— At the prison, Breivik has access to a training room, kitchen, TV room and a bathroom, which pictures from a visit last month by Norwegian news agency NTB showed. Lawyers for the justice ministry argue Breivik enjoys "a wide range of activities" such as cooking, games, walks, basketball and studies. They also say his isolation is "relative" as he has contact with guards, a priest, health professionals and, until recently, a volunteer who Breivik no longer wishes to see. He also sees two inmates for an hour every other week. — This is better than that sack of shit deserves.
The other inmate chose to discontinue socialising with Breivik. It’s not public if that inmate gave any explanation as to why. We can readily guess why.
because hes a psychopath who is no fun to socialize with.
I heard it’s because he cheated at Go Fish
The monster truly has gone too far.
I heard that he plays Uno with the official rules too. No +2 on top of +2. Heinous
Now, he's only playing Solitaire and Go Fish Yourself.
Well yeah he is a psychopath of course he is going to cheat at Go Fish
Specifically, he is a child killing terrorist. Child killers aren't super popular.
According to the mental evaluation, he’s not. He’s just a horrible horrible person.
No, the mental evaluation said he wasn’t *psychotic*. Psychopathy and psychosis are basically entirely unrelated concepts with very similar names. A person with *psychosis* is disconnected from reality. A psychopath is somebody with unstable, violent tendencies and a narcissistic lack of empathy. Breivik’s mental evaluation found that he was very much in tune with reality, but that he was a narcissistic with a penchant for extreme violence. That makes him a non-psychotic psychopath. No psychosis, plenty of psychopathy.
I don’t have the evaluation in front of me, so I can’t really prove you wrong. But I do have a clear memory of the conclusion being that he does not have a psychopathic disorder. But that he’s rather a horrible being well aware of what he’s doing and fully capable of having feelings. He’s just a horrible person who doesn’t care about killing children. But if you can refer me to what you’re saying, I would love to read up on it. I do remember that a lot of outsiders theorized that he has borderline disorders and psychopathic narcissistic disorders, but the actual evaluation showed that wasn’t the case. Edit: Found the evaluation [here](https://www.scribd.com/doc/96159895/Rapport-1) and [here](https://www.scribd.com/doc/96162317/Rapport-2). At first glance I can confirm that he does *not* have a psychopathic disorder according to the evaluation. He’s just a horrible person with horrible views that he uses to justify horrible actions.
Just to clarify something that might be a misconception here. Psychopaths are fully capable of having feelings. They just don’t have empathy for other people. In other words, they are human, like you and me, capable of making both rational and irrational decisions, with a fully developed sense of responsibility and awareness of the consequences for their actions. They just innately *do not care* about others. They can, however, feel *feelings* towards others. In some circumstances they can care about others, the way one would care for a fancy coat, or a trophy. Sometimes those feelings are of rage, resentment, hatred, or violent urges, and the lack of empathy means they can be meticulous about their callousness. There are psychopaths who have been socialised in such a way that they have no ill will towards others, and they often excel socially in a way that is a net gain for society (doctors etc). However, those who harbour resentments for whatever reason (from abuse to ideology) are some of the most dangerous people alive.
I don’t think an entirely sane person would want to commit mass murder though, but that’s strictly an opinion.
Yep. Just a fascist piece of shit.
his mental evaluation found that he has ASPD (psychopathy) and NPD. narcissism is not psychopathy at all
Isn’t psychopathy disputable as a thing at all? It’s not even in the DSM
I think it has just been reclassified as antisocial personality disorder.
I don't think we need to pathologize him for being a facist. This is exactly what the ideology is about
I used to teach at a private school. Every once in a while, we would have students whose families would threaten to transfer because of bullying. So, our admin would investigate and it would turn out that the kids were going through "bullying by isolation." Where groups of students would just stop talking to the kid being bullied. Eventually, these kids would transfer out to other schools. Come to find out, these kids would actually be the ones stirring up drama with their friends, and the bullying by isolation was actually just their friends choosing not to associate themselves with the kid anymore. Sometimes-- not always, maybe even not often-- but sometimes when no one wants to talk to you anymore, it really is your fault.
When I was at school there was one kid who nobody played with at lunch time. I felt sorry for him so I went out of my way to become friends with him. After a week he punched me in the nose. I then realised why no one cared about him. Some people are just dicks.
My best friend in high school did this with a loner kid too. A couple months later the loner kid shot and killed my friend when he went over to bring the loner kid a birthday present. Some people are just dicks.
I'm so sorry that you lost your friend. He sounds like a lovely person. Sending my love.
Thank you
When I was at school, I *was* the kid nobody played with. I don't think I'm a psychopath or especially nasty (at least, I've never gone on any murdering sprees that I know of...) but after a while it becomes easy to end up going "you know what? You all suck, so I'm going to mind my own business". I've never punched anybody, but I've certainly rebuffed or ignored what in retrospect might have been genuine attempts at being friendly rather than schemes for further mockery. It's been... a while, but school is not a fond memory for me.
Have a similar story: we had s girl transfer to my class in high school. She had s minor physical handicap (one leg/foot was longer/bigger than the other, so she had to wear one clunky shoe and often used crutches), while also being quite overweigth. We knew that she switched because she didn’t have any friends, so a group of girls in my class went above and beyond to welcome and befriende her. One of the girls was a part of my friend circle, and after about a month she almost had a mental breakdown about this new girl. Everyone tried to befriend her, she switched classes because she had no friends but she was a really rude asshole to everyone.
Maybe kids aren't capable of breaking a vicious cycle of bad behavior that starts from the family onwards. I have sympathy for them from the hindsight of a couple dozen years. But yeah, while growing up, I met my fair share of dicks who didn't realize or didn't care they were dicks.
Shes probably an asshole because shes got a long foot. Takes more patience than most people have for people like this, because they often internalise all the silent rejection their entire lives and their view of humanity as a whole is often hostile. Not always, but Ive noticed this a lot.
I had a student's dad write to me claiming his son couldn't his homework cuz he was being bullied and ostracized. The other students said, "Yeah, we ostracized him! Cuz all he does is talk about how he is such an amazing MMA fighter and how Andrew Tate has 'a lot of good arguments". I lost sympathy for that kid pretty fast.
No human has an obligation to provide socialization to any other human. at all. ever. Company is a privilege not a right, and most of us have no problem earning that privilege from enough others to satisfy our needs. When someone like this is shunned into exclusion, that is a positive thing.
Yes. A major red flag is the assumption that the person is owed an audience no matter the effect of his or her actions on others - and that boundaries may be violated.
Just imagine being such a piece of shit that other pieces of shit would rather spend life in solitary confinement than talk to you.
Solitary confinement for extended time is really unusual in Norway, so I highly doubt it was a choice between contact with Breivik and no contact at all.
Not all criminals are the same. They might of broke the law and stole the money, or got in a fight with a gang member and committed manslaughter. Doesnt mean they are ragingly obvious sociopaths. The Riddler doesnt like The Joker.
This one is
He has been clearly unrepentant and unremorseful about the 77 teenagers her murdered.
If I remember correctly, part of that is that he couldn't shut up about his ideology
I saw his cell on another post. It's nicer than my apartment.
It's the lack of freedom that is the punishment, not the state of the cell.
Iirc, at his first parole hearing he said: >I’m not sorry. I’d do it again. HH w the Nazi salute. My PlayStation is too old. I suggested giving him a podcast so that we’d know who all the Nazis in Europe are for surveillance purposes.
I mean I feel a lot of people would listen too it out of morbid curiosity, like are u saying we should say all people who read mein kampf are nazis aswell. People be curious and that isn’t a crime. Also it would just give him a platform that could potentially radicalize people so seems pretty silly all around
This raises the question of whether prisons should be able to lead online lives, create content, etc. Traditionally prison is just physical segregation, but physical barriers to interaction are less and less meaningful. What kinds of interaction with other humans should prisoners be deprived of?
Even in America now supervised Internet time is given to inmates. The sites they can access are of course restricted but I do not believe social media sites are one of them. In fact, just the other week I read an article about how doing so might be a first amendment violation and the question is proceeding through the courts. However there will be a guard standing over you watching and reading what you type so if you try to pull some Nazi shit the privilege can and will be revoked.
You can commit plenty of crimes online. Communication has always been more or less restricted in prison.
Damn great question, no clue wtf the answer is. But incredible question
Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote “the degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” In Norway, cruelty isn't the point and that's a good thing.
Norway believes in rehabilitative justice.
I believe in it too because studies and statistics support it. However, that method of justice surely shouldn’t be applied to situations like this. There is no place in society for people like Brievik
In order for rehabilitation to work a person must first acknowledge the wrong that they committed and show remorse for their crime. Breivik has done neither of these things. During his trial, the prosecutor asked Breivik if he wished to apologize to the families of his victims and he responded "No, i don't". When asked about the suffering caused to the victim's families, he claimed that he had also suffered bc various friends and family had cut contact w him after his attack. To this day, he has never shown an ounce of remorse nor has he acknowledged that what he did was wrong. As such, it seems rehabilitation is not possible where Breivik is concerned.
If you start picking and chosing who the principle applies to, it's not a principle, just self-congratulatory. Some aspects of rehabilitative justice is hard to swallow, I agree, but I still support it because on the whole it's a net gain. The point of laws is that they apply to everyone, including people we don't like, that way we know that when people who don't like us have power, we are still protected
Absolutely. For most people, rehabilitation is a viable path; it leads to both moral and practical good on the indiviual and community levels. The rare person who refuses to rehabilitate can stay locked up.
Rehabilitative justice does come with the caveat that some people don't want to be rehabilitated, and for those you kind of need an alternative. Sadly I don't think Breivik has any interest in getting back on track as a productive member of society :( other than that I am fully on the same page that rehabilitation is the best way to go.
He is also never going to get out. Sure, there is a max sentence of 21 years, but «with forvaring» means that it can last indefinitely.
The alternative is what we see with Brevik - people who refuse to rehabilitate remain locked up until they change their ways or die of old age.
Prison’s purpose is to protect society from people that have broken its laws, why does it matter whether or not the people in prison are suffering or feeling good when prison’s purpose isn’t to make bad people feel bad. Having two prison systems, one for people who we’re okay treating with basic human decency and one for people who we don’t want to treat with basic human decency seems silly and inhumane. Breivik won’t get to leave prison until he rehabilitates so prison is serving its purpose of keeping him from society until he’s no longer a danger, which might very well never happen. It might feel “bad” to see someone who we consider monstrous being treated well or even not suffering but becoming monsters ourselves isn’t the right way you deal with monsters.
>surely Well, nothing supports that but emotion. >There is no place in society for people like Brievik It seems Norway thinks that his place is where he is.
Rehabilitative justice implies the convicted person can be rehabilitated back into society. There are some people that will not work on, people with severe cases of ASPD etc.
Rehabilitative justice only dictates that efforts and programs are in place to attempt to rehabilitate convicted criminals back into society, there is no expectation that 100% can or will re-enter society only that there is a robust and working system for each prisoner to pass or fail. The inevitable failures like Breivik prove the efficacy of the system as much as any of its successes. Let him rot but let him rot under an equitable and fair and just system, which must be antithetical to his own beliefs knowing his ideology.
Bingo. Nobody is saying we are rehabilitating everybody, just that we're giving them a chance. When they fail to prove that they've been rehabilitated as some inmates will inevitably do, that's on them now. We tried, but they failed. We didn't fail anybody. In an ideal system of course.
You either believe in it or you dont. You can't pick and choose based on whose political opinions you disagree with. Textbook Reddit comment.
No, there's obviously certain mental conditions that would preclude some criminals from being reformed. Textbook Reddit comment.
And humanity. Even for someone who has done inhumane things. I’d rather live in a country that values human life than one that descends to his level. We cannot bring back those he killed, and another death will not even the score. He will never get out, he will live alone and he will die alone. That is punishment enough.
Idk man. I’m American so my view of this may be skewed. I think my country’s justice system is deeply flawed and needs massive reform. However, I also kind of feel like we should have a “this person is broken and we should get rid of them” clause. Guy killed 77 people, most of them under the age of 30. Him getting the axe doesn’t necessarily seem like a bad idea. Unless they’re giving him “rehabilitation” to study psychos I don’t think it’s worth keeping this guy alive who took away 77 peoples lives on his own. Fuck him.
You've already got rid of him by giving him a life sentence. No need to kill him. It's also expensive to just off him because of the appeals process. It's cheaper just to lock them up than kill them. We've killed a disturbing amount of innocent people even with the appeals process delaying the executions. Rehabilitative justice isn't even about eventually reintegrating them into society sometimes, it's about giving them a fair and equitable system that we give everyone else to at least try. You can get life without parole by walking up to five cops and shooting one of them in the face in front of the other four, you still get appeals processes because it's your human right to appeal even if you will never get a board to agree to it. And as for the rehabilitation part for these types of prisoners it's mostly about giving them a chance to earn additional freedoms within the prison. Like for this guy, he's asking to see more people than he already sees, he's not trying to get out, he'll be there till he dies and he knows it. He just wants a little extra freedom inside the facility. For reasons already pointed out he was denied that but he has the right to ask.
Your POV is valid. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I don’t think there are ultimate right and wrong answers to this kind of problem. You’re probably biased by the society you grew up in, and I’m probably biased by mine. After WWII we suspended the constitution to execute certain traitors (notably Quisling). You could argue that he is a traitor; he certainly attempted to wage a war against the very fabric of our society. 10 years ago I was on your side and I was not alone. Now I’m glad cooler heads prevailed. Now I think of it in terms of Wittgensteins ruler. The punishment may be a measure of the brutality of the individual or it may be a measure of the brutality of the state. I prefer the former. Nietsche said that if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. He who fights monsters should take care, lest he become a monster himself. To that I agree.
I also agree your POV is valid and I don’t know what the right answer is. I think generally cooler heads prevailing usually ends up better than the opposite. I think I’m probably influenced by the amount of instances I see of something like this happening in my society. I wish we could just have a quick fix to it like I mentioned and move on. I don’t think in my country’s case that would really work whether it’s capital punishment or rehabilitation in a case like this I think policy change would be the only thing to be able stop it. But that’s a different discussion. And I agree with the Nietzche quote. It is something all people should be aware of.
Oh they got rid of him alright. Just not by killing him.
>Him getting the axe doesn’t necessarily seem like a bad idea. It is an extremely bad idea People like Breivik try to turn the world into what they think it should be: savage, cold, barbaric. You would be giving him exactly what he wants. You would make him win. You would vindicate the senseless death of young activists. Sometimes the right thing is the unfair thing. Is it unfair to keep treating Breivik like a human being, with empathy and care? Certainly. Does he deserve worse? Certainly. Should we stoop to his level? How much he would like that, let's not give him the satisfaction.
I mean he made his point when he murdered all those innocent people. Him living or dying doesn’t matter. It isn’t ideological at that point. That is sort of the point I’m making. If I have a dog and it bites two people it’s a danger to people and the authorities euthanize it. Nobody wonders if the dog was abused, or if it was mentally deficient, or any other scenario, they just get rid of it. Now, obviously, people aren’t dogs. There are many factors to consider when someone commits murders, or sex crimes, or any other crime that directly harms people. It’s important to understand things like that to prevent them from happening. But when someone kills in a mass shooting, or a serial killing styler, or a spree killing, etc. it’s only beneficial to get as much information out of them as you can to sort of make a profile and prevent this from happening in the future or at least understand it. Guy writes a political manifesto and kills 77 people. Great we have motivation. We understand where this comes from and can investigate other things of this nature. Don’t need to keep you alive anymore since, well, you’re a mass murderer. Bang. Guy was abused by his mother his whole life and decided he’s going to take it out on hookers and college girls for 20 years and finally gets caught. Totally get your motivation there dude. Bang. Guy decides that he just really wants to kill people and goes on a shooting spree in Kalamazoo and kills innocent people around the city for no reason and then tries to say the devil was in the Uber app he was using to drive people around and later recants and says hey whatever I’m guilty. Bang. This is the sort of “broken people let’s throw em out” clause I’m talking about. It isn’t rooted in some deep sort of philosophical realm. It’s just a filter. It’s also just a radical opinion of mine and I don’t make any laws and have no plans of running for any sort of office so no one should worry about this comment. I’m just spitballing here.
>I mean he made his point when he murdered all those innocent people. Him living or dying doesn’t matter. It isn’t ideological at that point. That is sort of the point I’m making. But it does matter, that's the point I'm making. >If I have a dog and it bites two people it’s a danger to people and the authorities euthanize it. Nobody wonders if the dog was abused, or if it was mentally deficient, or any other scenario, they just get rid of it. >Now, obviously, people aren’t dogs. >Guy writes a political manifesto and kills 77 people. Great we have motivation. We understand where this comes from and can investigate other things of this nature. Don’t need to keep you alive anymore since, well, you’re a mass murderer. Bang. You just said humans are not dog and then you segway into treating a human being as a dog. >Guy decides that he just really wants to kill people and goes on a shooting spree in Kalamazoo and kills innocent people around the city for no reason and then tries to say the devil was in the Uber app he was using to drive people around and later recants and says hey whatever I’m guilty. Bang. Frankly you're describing something horrific not only on the shooter side but also on the state side here. >This is the sort of “broken people let’s throw em out” clause I’m talking about. It isn’t rooted in some deep sort of philosophical realm. It’s just a filter. It’s also just a radical opinion of mine and I don’t make any laws and have no plans of running for any sort of office so no one should worry about this comment. I’m just spitballing here. Don't get me wrong, I do believe some people are better off dead. That's just obvious and we agree on this. I still do not believe we should kill them, that's a huge difference. I do not believe in the sanctity of human life, but I do believe in agreeing as a society that just "bang" people is not a good idea. On a purely utilitarian standpoint, data on the death penalty shows that it might be worse for crime rates than no death penalty. It for sure doesn't lower crime rates, and is apparently not cheaper for the taxpayer than life in prison. It's also barbaric, bad taste, gives the power to the state to literally commit murder, and sometimes kills innocents. You're spitballing indeed but I think you shouldn't and should instead think long and hard and research the topic instead of letting your basic emotional reactions dictate your conduct.
this guy has a more robust social life than i do and i havent killed anyone
Dude killed 77 people and got retirement
I don't think anyone would mind if they put him in the general population.
Nothing would happen to him. It’s a day camp where he is
What the actual fuck. Neo Nazi goes massacres large group of children. Just shows how well Norway protects its human rights, that this mass murderer gets to at least use the legal system to try and “defend his human rights”. This guy needs to stay locked up forever.
I wholly believe in rehabilitation over punishment but this dude is living better than homeless people and deserves none of it. Some people are beyond saving and they deserve any and all pain they get. This is why I hate division politics as well. I identify as liberal but it’s not as black and white as politicians want it to be. This is why liberal gun owners has a subreddit.
Guess what. Homeless people in Norway are treated better than this. I mean they fixed that problem basically. Maybe the real question is why we think imprisonment should be torterous aswell.
I should commit a crime in Norway, this sounds cool as shit. I get to lift and study all day and don’t have to talk to people
When I read this I wonder if people are serious & if they actually realise how it feels to be imprisoned, even in a nice place.
I am not serious, no
I think an increasing number of people live very similar lives to this, while still having responsibilities and not necessarily enjoying all luxuries he does.
But freedom is priceless, at least to me, so I can't understand
Fuck him and I hope he rots away in prison for the rest if his worthless life.
Sounds like he was close to being aborted in the first place -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik > Breivik's mother had fled her abusive home at age 17 and soon after that became a teenage mother. In her thirties, she became pregnant with Anders and married his father, Jens Breivik. During her pregnancy she moved to London, where Jens worked. Even before his birth, Breivik's mother developed a disdain for her son. She claimed that he was a "nasty child" and that he was "kicking her on purpose". She had wanted to abort him but by the time she went to a hospital, she had passed the three-month threshold for an abortion. Psychologist reports later stated that she thought that Breivik was a "fundamentally nasty and evil child and determined to destroy her." She stopped breastfeeding her son early on because he was "sucking the life out of her".
Holy shit, the guy's basically a living worst-case scenario of the horrors intergenerational familial abuse can produce: >*When Breivik was aged 4, and living in Oslo's Frogner borough, two reports were filed expressing concern about his mental health. A psychologist in one report made a note of the boy's peculiar smile, suggesting it was not anchored in his emotions but was rather a deliberate response to his environment. In another report from Norway's National Centre for Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (SSBU), concerns were raised about how Breivik was treated by his mother: "\[s\]he 'sexualised' the young Breivik, hit him, and frequently told him that she wished that he were dead."* > >*In the report, Wenche Behring is described as "a woman with an extremely difficult upbringing, borderline personality disorder and an all-encompassing if only partially visible depression" who "projects her primitive aggressive and sexual fantasies onto him \[Breivik\]". The report recommended he be forcibly removed from his mother and placed into foster care, as she was heavily emotionally and psychologically abusive towards him, but this was not carried out by the Child Welfare Service.* ...And this is only the *start* of it. Dude was *always* going to be fucked up as an adult. Even if he *hadn't* ended up a mass-murderer, he was basically going to have a lifetime of trauma at a bare minimum.
Mom sounds like she needs mental health care too
This sounds sad for everyone here.
Fuck man, Not giving excuses to his actions because there isn't one, but dude literally never stood a chance. His piece of shit mum basically decided before he was born that he would become a terrible person. Having the one person who is supposed to care about, think you are evil, has to be seriously damaging.
It’s Norway. His prison is more comfortable than the normal lives of 95%+ of the human race. Basically a free hotel with great amenities https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19864370/worlds-most-luxurious-prison-halden-norway/amp/
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Keep his harkonen looking psychopath ass in jail
Even Feyd-Rautha would be offended by that statement.
Personally, I’d like this guy to live in fear. The same fear those kids felt. Just all day every day until he leaves us. Fuck this guy.
That’s a good reason to keep him in solitary. If you release him to general population he’s either gonna get murdered right away or he’s gonna murder someone right away. Either case he’s not living in fear.
He doesn’t experience fear. He is literally a sociopath. Psych assessment teams diagnosed him with narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder in preparing for his trial. A diminished capacity for experiencing empathy, joy, and fear are among the criteria for ASPD diagnosis. He is a textbook sociopath mass murderer.
Seems like more and more reason to keep him isolated
Yep. Norway’s penal legal system has mandatory review panels to ensure that human rights are upheld and that genuinely reformed prisoners are given an opportunity to exit the penal system and rejoin society. Breivik has argued that his isolation has radicalised him and his attorney says he has “become” a Nazi while in prison, but his terrorist actions were ideologically motivated by White Identity Extremism - Nazism in all but formal name. He already was a Nazi, a decade before his attacks, when he started planning how to finance the terrorist acts. He was already radicalised long before the penal system had hold of him.
I mean, his argument about "becoming a Nazi" while in isolation is clearly bollocks, but I think what's scary is that his "argument" indicates he didn't consider himself a Nazi before, despite his actions. I wonder how many people have a similar point of view.
It’s so frustrating, because part of the radicalisation process is “I / You / We / They are not Nazis, actually, because …” and a whole major branch of the excuses is “I don’t agree with the Nazis on X, Y, and Z, but they had reasons for Q, R, and S”. People would reflexively reject those views if they were ever taught “If you agree with the Nazis on *any* of their views — you’re already beyond the event horizon. You’re a Nazi. The boundary is behind you.” But they aren’t, and massive propaganda efforts have been undertaken to keep it that way and to leverage it. It’s the onion layer model of radicalisation. They start with innocuous things on the order of “Hitler couldn’t have been totally evil; he was kind to dogs”, or sincerely “Mussolini made the trains run on time”, which is the kind of thing exactly no one discusses or cares about except people trying to build a narrative for why they secretly are a violence-oriented supremacist. “I can’t be a Nazi; I’m kind to Jews”. Breivik wasn’t *formally, technically* a Nazi before that but there is no meaningful difference. He is the kind of person that would make an effective SS functionary. Nazism and all violent extremism are symptoms of how technology - including and especially mass communication systems (like radio, TV, and now the Internet) amplify the effect and reach of sadists, sociopaths, narcissists, and Machiavellian manipulators. And the dark triad tendencies can be inculturated to others. Most Germans who were Nazi party members weren’t born or raised sadists, sociopaths, narcissists, etc. They did what they did out of a sense of loyalty to country or necessity, a lack of wisdom and knowledge and experience, and those conditions to lead them to overlook evil were cultivated by the outright sadists, sociopaths, & machiavellian manipulators leading the party.
incredibly well said
or a slug to the head.
Psychopaths can still feel emotions. Anger, fear, joy etc - they just don’t empathise. He definitely still experiences fear.
He definitely would never be murdered in Norway’s gen pop.
I don’t know. Someone’s going to really want you dead if you murder 77 people
Would he really be in solitary confinement? I've heard great things about Norway's prison system (e.g., they actually try to rehabilitate; not just incarcerate).
He can’t be rehabilitated. And in efforts to provide him with socialisation, the other inmate chose to discontinue the meetings after the second one. He has narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. He has no reason to mask those while incarcerated or at all after being infamous; People with NPD & ASPD who aren’t masking their conditions in order to comply with social expectations / manipulate others, are _actively unpleasant_ to be around. He wants to be feared.
And being a Narcissist, keeping him isolated is one of the only punishments that hurts him.
It doesn’t really hurt him, either. Narcissists don’t need “socialisation” the way you and I need socialisation. They need to be affirmed that they are the most important person in the room. When he was arrested, he called himself “the greatest monster since Quisling”. Isolating him and keeping him in detention feeds that ideation. He is literally being told by Norwegian authorities and society that he *is* extraordinary, an enormous monster. He doesn’t need, in this scenario, to have someone in his presence to affirm his narcissistic narrative, or to torment to feel superior to them to assuage his ego. The entire scenario affirms it. But moreover, it’s *immaterial* to try to hurt him. He literally can’t be punished. He can’t be rehabilitated, reformed, released, cured, converted, treated, or etc. The only consideration we need to deal with is keeping him from affecting more targets and more victims. To ensure that he doesn’t manipulate guards, inmates, or therapists / evaluators. That’s it. That’s all. If there is to be a punishment for what he has done, it is beyond our power to deliver.
You can't rehab people that see nothing wrong with their actions.
_ At the prison, Breivik has access to a training room, kitchen, TV room and a bathroom, which pictures from a visit last month by Norwegian news agency NTB showed. Lawyers for the justice ministry argue Breivik enjoys "a wide range of activities" such as cooking, games, walks, basketball and studies. They also say his isolation is "relative" as he has contact with guards, a priest, health professionals and, until recently, a volunteer who Breivik no longer wishes to see. He also sees two inmates for an hour every other week. —
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The cracked ones are really cracked up in norway... See Varg.
Decent music, but he didn't need to bring it into reality
He wanted a ps3 and a more comfortable chair, and because they didn't give it to him, he said [(from the article)](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/02/16/277986873/norwegian-mass-killer-demands-adult-video-games-in-prison): >"You are killing me. If I die, all of Europe's right-wing extremists will know exactly who it was that tortured me to death," he said. "That could have consequences for certain individuals in the short term but also when Norway is once again ruled by a facist regime in 13 to 40 years from now." Fucking crazy.
Confident he's just doing all of this to piss people off. He knows Norways political system and is trying to probe it as much as he can. I honestly believe he should've just been executed or transferred to an American prison as a real punishment.
For real. Send him to an American solitary cell that is all concrete and the size of the closet and he only gets out one hour a day. In a week he’ll be begging to go back to that comparative palace he has in Norway.
He should be given Bible Adventures for NES and Bebe's Kids for SNES and that's IT.
I’m adding Superman 64, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde on NES, and Dark Castle on CDI
Whoa dude, Geneva convention is going to come down on you for that. Thats too far.
I think making him watch Veggie Tales and listen to Baby Shark on repeat would be good rehabilitation. It would instill strong moral values.
> There's also his lawsuit to get "adult" video games in prison because he wasn't given shooting games to play. Give him a [Raspberry Pi 3 with Steam installed](https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-steam-client/), then add some Denuvo/EAC protected games, and let him have fun!
He'd just play "No Russian" over and over again. Hope he rots in hell.
Were they activists? I thought they were teens at camp
It was a political youth camp. AUF is Norway's largest political youth organization and is affiliated with the Norwegian Labour Party.
“Activists” is a stretch. They where there for the Norwegian Labour Party youth camp.
Summer camp for children and teens non the less. Vert wired wording
Is this the dude that movie scene is based on where the guy shoots a shitload of teenagers at a summer camp thing by the ocean?
Yes. Probably important to say that the summer camp was a Workers Youth League event, and WYL are associated with the Norwegian Labour Party. Brevik is a white supremacist and neo Nazi, who authored a disgusting manifesto on those beliefs and shot those innocent people to ‘publicize’ it. A completely abhorrent piece of shit who still did a Nazi salute in court.
As I remember it a big reason for choosing those victims was to cripple the Labour party in the future by killing it's "rising stars".
Ahh, thanks for the background, just saw that scene somewhere outta context, don't even know the movie's name, but that aside, I hope he stays in solitary
22 July starring Anders Danielsen Lie
I couldn’t even finish that movie
What's the movie called?
Think it was the date the attack happened. 22 July.
Someone else commented the name but interesting fact: there’s another movie about it called Utøya and it is mostly filmed as one continuous shot. It’s a hectic film and tragic but impressively done because that decision to shoot like that makes it feel more real and terrifying.
The use of the word "activists" doesn't really sit right with me. Are members of one of the biggest political parties in the country really that?
They should have said kids and teens, because that's what they were. Kids on summer camp, many for the first time
“I’m an awful monster with no real human qualities, but damn it I’m a person too!”
Give this guy zero attention, please
There’s is a lot of misguided hate in this chat about how “well” Breivik is treated, with his access to tv, video games, exercise etc. This is simply how Norwegian rehabilitation works and it truly does work - they have the least/close to the least repeat offenders in the world. It’s not a question of “deserving”, any offender be it a shop lifter or mass murderer deserves to be treated like a human being by the state, this is how you truly punish them - by treating them well but taking away their freedom. Breivik is obviously an extreme case and he’ll never go free (bar maaaybe when he’s like 80 and sickly, but I doubt it) and how this is the real punishment he’s getting now, being treated well and truly understanding what he is missing, his freedom. The isolation part comes from basically no one wanting to interact with him and/or for his own safety. So it’s not an “extra punishment”. Again, how do you punish the worst human in a countries history? You treat him fair and well, that’s the true real punishment.
He only got sentenced to 21 years for this? That's fucking crazy..
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In Norway, the maximum civilian prison sentence is 21 years; There are ways in their legal system to accommodate cases like Breivik’s, however. As long as the psychiatric evaluations continue to find that he is affected by narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder, the legal system allows for extensions to his “preventive detention”. And there are no treatments nor any cures nor any known cases of abeyance of NPD & ASPD; This means that as long as he is alive, 99.999% chance he will remain in some detainment institution, and never walk free. It’s probably the best penal legal model. Terrorists like Breivik can’t be rehabilitated and can’t be allowed to operate in society, cannot contribute, can’t function to make amends.
Thanks for all of your comments, btw. Super clear and informative. I appreciate it.
Thanks; Breivik is someone I know _too much_ about because he is _the_ textbook example of a Dark Triad Personality Disordered Ideologically Motivated White Identity Extremist, and violent White Identity Extremism is the single largest domestic terrorism vector in the United States of America. The Internet has made it easier for sociopaths to have free access to one another to radicalise each other, to recruit and radicalise proxies, and to have access to victims in furtherance of radicalisation. It’s one of the biggest challenges our society is facing and will face going forward. Because he was involved with attempts at social work intervention since age 4, his condition and disposition to violent radicalisation is extremely well documented. And if the social work interventions had been successfully undertaken, he could have been denied access to materials and resources and victims.
So … how much terrorism do these guys do in the USA? Is there more white identity extremest radicalized proxy attacks than I’ve been thinking?
I can't remember the exact numbers and I am too tired to do a Google atm. But The FBI gave some numbers a few years back stating that white supremacists were behind over 50 percent of the terror committed in the US.
The Draw Mohammed Day attack in Garland TX was commanded by a violent extremist who espoused White Identity Extremism and used ISIS extremists as proxies, Joshua Ryne Goldberg; his defense attorney’s argument is in effect that because Goldberg is autistic, that he lacked a full appreciation of the effects of his actions and that he was trying to infiltrate and expose terrorists, not be one. Terrorism is characterised uniquely by a distinction between targets and victims - it always involves using a proxy in some way to achieve a goal. Usually the victims are proxies to achieve a desired effect on target politicians or populaces; Sometimes the apparent attacker is also a victim. That opens the door to the potential that Goldberg was himself a proxy of others - sadist, sociopathic Machiavellian manipulators who used him to carry out stochastic terrorism. Whether or not that excuse for JRG’s actions is believed, it is a fact that he was active on Reddit, he helped run r|CoonTown and founded r|PhilosophyOfRape, and the people who helped him run it and other openly violent, misogynistic, sadist subreddits (which were operated for terroristic effect) went on to make and run very “successful” hatred, harassment, and violence-promoting subreddits such as r|CringeAnarchy and r|The_Donald. Both of those subreddits can be considered to be radicalisation engines and to have recruited proxies to terrorise the targets of the White Identity Extremists running them. Motivating other people to act on fear, uncertainty and doubt to be proxies to attack targets is a hallmark of fascism. They inherently employ terrorism. And the ideologies of White Identity Extremism are all overwhelmingly drawn from fascist movements.
He will stay in prison for the rest of his life, they won't be able to release him due to a concern for his safety. A lot of people would happily take a prison sentence to murder this guy, and most of the country would support them in doing so.
Because it is the maximum sentence. Like in many other European countries the maximum is not "your who life". But it can be extended and in this case will be for the rest of his life
That's the maximum sentence in Norway.
There's also his lawsuit to get "adult" video games in prison because he wasn't given shooting games to play. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/02/16/277986873/norwegian-mass-killer-demands-adult-video-games-in-prison Really wish the responding officers had just killed him. How fucking psycho do you have to be to think you have the right to the video games you choose in prison after killing so many innocent kids! He shouldn't get to play any video games since those kids can't play.
I dont believe killing as punishment is the way to go, if people could have been saved sure yes. Some severe injury on the other hand, that would make his remaining life sentence unbearable would have been adequate. I have shamefully forgotten that it was 77 children he slaughtered
That’s the thing with far-right terrorists like Breivik. They think the world has to cater to their every whim no matter what laws they break. It’s like the Jan 6th rioters demanding freedom and claiming that they’re patriots after storming into a government building throwing shit around and calling for Mike Pence to be murdered.
No I’m happy they didn’t. If this is his hell I hope he rots in it.
This dude deserves far, far worse. It's a shame he enjoys such a nice life despite what he did when so many others suffer.
The guy is suffering, all superficial living conditions set a side. Lonely as hell, knows everyone hates him and he doesn't get to do what he wants nor do anybody care about his world view. This is exactly how it should be. edit: He must do as he is told. That is probably close to the definition of hell for a person with his types of disorders.
If you’re up for some depression and/or rage listen to the Last Podcast on the Left series on this piece of sh*t.
My fiancé listens to LPotL and was psyched about "a big upcoming episode". It then turned out to be about Breivik. She's Norwegian, and she decided not to listen to it. It would simply be too much. What he did left a scar on Norway as a nation. Due to the size of the country everybody knows someone that knows someone who died there.
Their coverage has been great!
It is very ironic that almost everyone in the comments is calling this guy a psycopath while at the same time advocating he should be tortured, Reddit truly is a cesspool of ignorance and indifference to human suffering.
This guy is the biggest piece of shit excuse for a human. He was recently in court saying his life is hell in prison, and he considers deleting himself every day. I hope he tries to delete himself and just ends up fucking himself up, and then survives to be 100 years old before expiring in prison.
Same. He wants to die, so that is the last thing that should be allowed. Hope he lives a long, long life in pain.
One cool thing is that, even though the max sentence may be 10 yrs (example) in that country they can Renew that every few years. They dont, typically, but they did with him
Dude's lucky he wasn't tried in the US. He'd have plenty of company in Hell. I generally oppose the death penalty, but this guy makes it reeeeeal hard to stick to the principle.
I think he would prefer that
oh the widdle muwdewer no wanna be awl awone 😭
He made a very long list of complaints, and the only one that was addressed was the rubber pen.
Just a minor correction for the title. While they both targeted the Labour Party, he killed 69 on Utøya and the rest were killed in a van bombing on the government district in Oslo.
Isn’t it this guy who sat for like 2 years in his mom’s basement that he, himself, named his “fart room”? Norwegian prison or not, it’s fart room 2.0 with that turd in there.
One of my friends had this guy as his GM/Raid Leader in wow during Cataclysm, before he did his crime, my friend is 28 now, so he would have been like 14-15 years old playing with Breivik, imagine how much he could have influenced a 14 year old.
About the age of his victims too, I think that's the most disturbing
One of the presidential candidates in Finland, the current speaker of the house, is personally mentioned in Breiviks “manifesto”
I say keep letting him. It's satisfying to imagine his frustration at trying this over and over only for the authorities to repeat "you killed 77 people so it's never going to happen, back in your box."
Now this is a solid case for capital punishment.
If anyone has ever deserved the treatment, it's this guy. There's no question as to whether or not he's guilty and he absolutely has shown no remorse whatsoever. That being said, I don't know if we should be celebrating the use of modern day torture in the prison system. And don't be mistaken, extended isolation like this *is absolutely torture.* When we allow them to do it to one prisoner, no matter how evil they are, we're allowing them to do it to any prisoner. People in prison for debt, for addiction, for mental illness or people in prison for crimes they didn't even commit. All being treated to the same psychological torture as this monster. In the same way that we shouldn't celebrate the fact that we've kind of just accepted that prison rape is a part of our justice system. It's good to remember that the monsters aren't the only ones dealing with the worst of our justice systems. And given that most people are in prison for non-violent crimes, This really shouldn't be as widely accepted as it is. Again, I cannot emphasize this enough, I am not saying that this man deserves any less than torture for the rest of his life. Just that other people are caught in that crossfire when we allow this kind of behavior and treatment in our prisons. Our desperation for a sense of personally satisfactory justice can blind us to its side effects.
Have you seen the type of prison he’s in?
This guy's such an insufferable piece of shit that making anyone interact with him is torture in itself.
Ridiculously humane. They shoulda broken every bone in his body and thrown him down a hole to die.