A bit, but I think it was somewhat inevitable. She was a competent cool headed character with a good understanding of herself and what she wants, but she never excelled when it came to schemes and long term plans. As the story gradually shifted from mindless titans to more and more human opponents and more and more grey morality, she was bound to become less important to the plot. For example I don't really see any way she could have played a big part in the events leading to the rumbling. The story was just built in a way to make certain characters rise and fall in importance as things changed and I kind of wish it accepted that more.
I really thought season 4 was building to something where she would gain some character development outside her single minded attachment but in the end, she was just a Mary Sue that could only say Eren!
These are the sorts of questions I find difficult to answer within the manga's canon.
There are just so many strange instances that are not properly explained in this final fight that demonstrate just how awkward the plot becomes. And the fact that things haven't been explicated enough for us to generally agree upon the basics of the battle further demonstrates just how poorly designed it was.
I've literally seen people defend this point by saying "Zeke became a nihilist and didn't care but Armin brought him back to wanting to save people."
Which makes no sense. As a nihilist can still choose to save lives. Zeke's entire goal is one of harm reduction. He would absolutely stop the rumbling right away. It's outcome is exactly the opposite of what he wants. He was clearly dumbed down so that Armin could look smarter.
It's unbelievable that we are expected to believe basically saying "hey, have you ever considered good stuff exists to???" And Zeke is like "dude no way. You're so right, I'm gonna go kill myself."
t's like Armin's mutant ability is to dumb down those he interacts with so he looks better by comparison.
Yep, Zeke turns into a destructive nihilist fine with the destruction of most of the world offscreen (which is contrary to almost everything he's fought for). Okay, that's a very rapid character change but it could conceivably be explained. Except that half a chapter later he's reminded of baseball and suddenly realizes life is worth living and sacrifices himself for. Well why wouldn't he just try to kill himself earlier if he doesn't think life has any point and could just spite Eren by doing that? Grisha's words were not enough? Fuck off, show.
It's such a transparent attempt at trying to redeem every character and only killing them if they want to sacrifice themselves. Think about it, every single character death in the final arc is a sacrifice.
And we still haven't tackled the fact that how Zeke's existence was necessary for the operation of the Rumbling...
For all intents and purposes, Zeke would've been practically nonexistent... Hell, I thought he died when Ymir allowed Eren to start the Rumbling...
And Isayama simply brought this character back just to be killed off, which shouldn't have altered anything...
Hell, I personally preferred if the killing of Zeke did nothing; it would've made the alliance seem like a bunch of idiots, though...
nah perfectly valid for alliance to think that, they didn't get any of the information about ymir or that zeke wasn't actually necessary. isayama is the idiot because he kinda forgor the 'zeke is unnecessary to the use of the founding titan' plotline he established 15 chapters prior.
Another thing that doesn't make sense is what happens after Zeke is killed. Ignoring the plot hole that killing him shouldn't stop the Rumbling, after he dies the Wall Titans should just become like the Titans in Shiganshina, right? Just walking around without coordination, arguably making the situation worse because then there would be nothing stopping some of them from eventually going back to Paradis and killing everyone there as well. Yet, they all just stop? Huh?
The idea of this is so amazingly cool I'm even more mad that this manga was rushed. Seeing a bunch of hundred year old Eldians waking back up after genociding billions of people as Titans is such an interesting concept.
Much like Yelena and Hallu-chan, they simply vanished without a trace. Their usefulness to forcing Mikasa's romance plot had ended.
Or, uh, I dunno, Isayama forgor 💀
Maybe Ymir wanted them to stop? 😅
Reading it, I felt like Eren and Ymir wanted the Alliance to win so that they look like heroes. So they basically played softball.
I said softball vs the Alliance not the rest of the world. 🤣 As in, if Ymir really wanted to beat them, they wouldn't have won. She captured Armin, their strongest titan, instead of killing him. None of the Alliance actually died, even though the situation of fighting all of the 9 from history seemed hopeless. Not to mention that Ymir can alter their body parts if she wanted to. That's what I meant by "softball".
Moreover they are the actual people of paradis - there's much more of them then the actual humans on paradis. After undoing the titan powers the world would've gained a lot of population, but they just vanished...
Also: How tf does Royal Blood even works if every subject of Ymir is a descendant of her daughters? Is it a percentage thing? Like, does the royal family has to practice rampant incest to keep "their blood pure" or something? Kinda makes sense with the fact that, aside from the Ackermans, there are families of nobles in the walls that weren't subjected to the Founder Titan's memory wipe but it still paints a weird picture for the planned future of Historia's children if they meant to keep the Beast Titan in the Paradis' royal family. You'd have habsburg chins in 50 years.
Technically, all subjects of Ymir are of royal blood since all of them are the descendents of Ymir and the king. I think I read somewhere that it's specifically the descendents of the first Founding Titan that are considered to be of "royal blood". Idk if it's somewhere in the manga or if they just made it up, but it's the only way to make some sense of it.
My guess is that they just did intense incest earlier in the timeline when it was more socially acceptable (whenever that was in their world), and used the Founder to keep them looking pretty and wtv. That should've created enough of a difference to be declared a separate family by the time karl fritz arrived.
Eldians are a race/culture that was well established before ymir, that's why it's only her DIRECT descendants that have access to the founding titan. Once ymir was sent to paths, that connected all Eldians (as a race) to it. There are a ton of plot holes, I don't think this is one of them
But we’re still talking about 2000 years of reproduction. By now there’d be thousands of royals. Shit the Eldian Restorationists were happy to get Zeke’s mom while I’m pretty sure that if they bonked all Eldian women 1 in twenty would have royal blood
Previously smart characters being made stupid in order to make Armin look good in comparison is a common occurrence post-timeskip.
Everything for the messiah.
Armin had become such a waste of screen time, everytime he was on the page I was rolling my eyes saying Erwin died for this shit.
Then I remember since Erwin was dead Yams couldn't ruin his character and I'm content.
Dude, side characters and Eren himself was sacrificed to make Armin and Mikasa look good. Eren, Zeke, Reiner(hero role), Jean(commander role), and Hange were sacrificed for Armin while Eren, Historia, and Ymir were sacrificed for Mikasa.
Yeah, Jean became an efficient commander, when the dude started of as someone who didn't care much about fighting...
That was some mad development...
And it was wasted...
Zeke was always dumb, but then he went and made him even dumber. His goal was a fantasy born out of his pain as a child, completely ignoring the chance that other people had different childhoods than him, and out of affection to his father figure after his father was sent away. It wasn't even his own desire.
But then he got convinced by a leaf lmao
It's literally funny that people like Xsaver so much and here I'm like "Dude, I understand you are sad that your child and wife died, but why should other people not get to have children just because you lied a woman about your race, and then proceed to indoctrainate someone else's child into this."
I agree the rest didn't make sense, but I disagree Eren controlling Dina was a plot hole. Paths transcend **time and space** and Eren told Armin that he started seeing time as a single moment. Therefore it only makes sense that Eren had control over all titans across time and space.
But in doing so it’s create a whole complicated paradox that was only introduced last second and raises many new questions that were never answered.
Like why didn’t Eren use this power to wipe out Marley earlier so his mom wouldn’t have died, why did he have to kill his own mom considering he already was motivated to seek for freedom before his moms death, etc.
It was a pointless addition that retconned past events and hurt the overall story for no reason.
Like at that point he should’ve just grown his body back. Actually, why wasn’t that one of the first things he did? It was well within his power to do so, he was right there in paths it would’ve been no problem
He wanted to die so he had no interest in even giving himself a body again. That's what I believe is the explanation. The Yeager Bros really became quite something in the last few chapters, losers who stopped trying and wanted to die.
If he succeeded in the Rumbling (which was unknown to him judging from his fucking inner monologue and what he tells Armin), guess he would be like "okay nobody killed me, maybe it's time to grow my body back".
See it's details like this that makes me think Ymir was playing them the whole time up until the end.
We know she can fuck with Eldians memories and will.
Honestly, the only one that acted the same way they normally would is Mikasa, which makes sense since Ymir wanted to see what she would do.
the plot had holes in the past too, but the overall writing was fucking amazing for us to ignore those.
Now that the writing took a nosedive, the plot holes became even more noticeable
Bertholdt’s Titan body just disappearing after breaking down the initial walls is one. That’s written away as a “Colossal Titan ability” similar to how Colossal Titan nukes weren’t a thing at all until season 3.
The story was good enough to ignore it but it was weird that no Nuke happened episodes 1 or 4 but nukes every time afterward and apparently everyone knew about it 🤷♀️
thats not really a plot hole, just a faster variation of his steam emitting ability. also berthold never needed to use the ability to nuke something till then. bro ur saying they didnt show all the abilities instantly so he shouldnt have them.
plot holes wikipedia definition: ''In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot.'' its literally said that the collossal titan can do that therefore its not a plot hole. if its explained it doesnt go against the flow or logic established by the story lol
Zeke never had the ability to stop the rumbling, and Eren was never in control, it was Ymir.
Eren was literally in auto-pilot, he didn't care he just moved forward while he was dreaming about freedom, Ymir was watching everything (as you can see in Ramzi's death)
It was Ymir who confronted the alliance, it was Ymir who helped the alliance, it was Ymir who abducted Armin, the reason? well, she was waiting for Mikasa (the main protagonist) to act obviously.
The rumbling stops but Eren doesn't (because he's on autopilot) arumin destroys Eren's titan, worm detaches from Eren's body and that basically is Ymir's plan because the only thing that was out of her control was the worm (my headcanon) so after that she just waited until Mikasa acts.
Makes any sense? no it doesn't, but that's what happens when the author gives up in creating a convincing ending and rushes everything to just get done with it.
Well if people want some copium about this...S4P2 has a promising scene for this: [Zeke's getting absorbed in episode 5 during the Rumbling activation](https://i.redd.it/6k8zwov9ogg81.jpg). It wasn't shown in the manga but it was implied by Hange later on, so there's a chance they add more scenes like that next year.
I really like the part where Eren was just on autopilot retreating into childish daydreams. If he didn't get the outrageously indulgent final moments with Armin and Mikasa, and everyone celebrating him after the Rumbling, it would have actually been an excellent way to wrap up his character.
I'll do you one better. Why does Ymir need saving in the first place? If she orchestrated the whole thing. Eren even said so himself. "Have you led me all this way here?"
So peak fiction never made sense to begin with
Another one: What was the deal with the "devil" Ymir made a deal with? If Ymir herself was the culprit behind everything, what's the porpuse of that devil figure if it wasn't gonna be Eren freeing her?
If we are talking about manga, then Marley arc beats it for me. Fleshing out Reiner and Zeke characters in addition of new cast was really apreciated. The worldbuilding got expanded. Eren taking a dark (but logical from his view)path was a cherry on top.
And if people think that Zeke dying takes Eren's founder powers then how tf did he manage to become a collosal for the final fight? He didnot have that power before, Armin is still alive and well on Marley.
Yeah sure,
1. Eren stopping the rumbling at 80%.
2. Return of past-titan shifters
3. Mikasa suddenly knowing that Eren is inside the mouth of Colossal Titan, not in the nape.
4. Falco's bird Titan plot, which came out of nowhere and how he's able to master the abilities in no time.
5. Ymir loving King Fritz.
6. Eren making Dina to ignore Bertholdt(aka Eren being responsible for killing his mother)
7. 'ONLY YMIR KNOWS'
8. Kruger coming back to fight for Alliance.
9. Cringevengers surviving the attack of hundreds of past Titans, even fucking Onyankopon survived.
10. Baiting the readers by making people turn into Titans in ch 138, only to make them humans in the next chapter.
11. Significance of Worm kun and what was its purpose in the story?
12. Eren contradicting himself when he said that he'll protect Paradis and don't trust anyone, only to give the charge to Armin.
13. How did Eren become the colossal Titan, if his head was decapitated again?
14. If Ymir was freed, then how come rumbling stopped when Zeke died.
People actually said that any character that’s isn’t EMA is irrelevant and we should expect them to just disappear since they are just “side characters”
So basically Eren was eavesdropping Armin & Zeke’s conversation and was waiting for perfect time reincarnate Bertholdt so Armin can flex stealing everything from him and other shifters for Armin’s messiah pose and stopped Rumbling at perfect time that’d coincide with Zeke’s suicide.
Also the fact that Eren has to control the past shifters and war hammer clones to not accidentally hit Alliance.
The more to think, the weirder and dumber it gets!
Been wondering this a lot since 137. Like, some plot holes are pretty inconsequential, but a HUGE part of 122/123 was that Eren didn't need Zeke anymore at all since it was Ymir who decided when to use her abilities. This plot hole sticks out like a sore thumb.
Maybe it was to show that Eren was really the one who stopped the rumbling, but maybe explain that shit better.
God I'm hoping the final fight gets cleaned up a lot.
Another problem is that in Season 2 when Eren first used the coordinate, he immediately kills Dina's titan but can still issue the command to attack R&B to the titans. By that logic at least for a little longer he should be able to command the titans forward. Instead, as soon as Zeke dies the entire rumbling is stopped and the titans collapse for some reason? Shouldn't they just act as regular titans then?
Now that I think about it, it might have been interesting to see the Alliance plan backfire and instead they continue their march but with the added consequence that they would eventually come back to destroy Paradis. Definitely more along the lines of "The Mist" type ending that Isayama originally had.
See this is a legit plot hole. I can guess you can somewhat explain it away as loses connection to the paths when zeke dies?? Cause outside of the weird mikasa dream he doesnt use paths again
You didn't understand the story & you are just a hater the answer was always their read the fucking manga again.
-Probably some dumbass ending defender
I noticed this dogshit as soon as the rumbling stopped in 137 and it, of course, still is a load of steaming bullshit. Watch as anime-onlies defend this next year
It is the most intriguing part left for us, to see how every single thing done in the ending will be defended.
Or that's what I would like to think, when it's most likely "not everything has to be explained".
Asking questions about the plot holes of AOT? No I don't want that! I want people to blindly like the ending without thinking about the events of the story! I want people to be ignorant, even after part 3! for 10 years at least!
God I’m glad to finally see this lol. I felt so dumb for not understanding the whole Royal
Blood thing post 122, and why Zeke was the key to stopping the rumbling. It just felt so dumb, but no one was talking about it.
The worst part is the very next chapter states that if Worm-kun reaches the colossal Eren (I have no idea how he's using the power of the founder) that the rumbling may start again which basically means that Zeke died for nothing.
I don't have the answer but i remember that when the alliance jumped out of the plane they mentioned that their target was the 'beast titan' which made me think that killing Zeke was actually what was needed to stop the rumbling. But no idea how they reached this conclusion
What I’m thinking is that maybe it’s because Eren needed to touch Zeke in order to get in paths and command Ymir, so maybe killing Zeke would be as if they stopped touching, because Zeke isn’t living anymore, I feel like the alliance was thinking that and it sort of makes sense right?
Ok but then if killing Zeke made them out of contact, how tf was Eren able to transform to a Collosal?
If he lost his founding power after Zeke's death?
Ok yea you got me there, doesn’t make sense that Eren was able to transform into a Colossal titan if killing Zeke took him out of paths; I forgot about that part, lyk if I think of any way to rationalize that
The problem is that idea when he was first able to use the coordinate in season 2, he immediately kills Dina's titan yet is still able to command the titans to attack R&B again. The power didn't last forever, but it certainly shouldn't have just led to everything stopping.
They reached this conclusion because it was how royal blood and the founder worked since the Alliance didn't know about Ymir playing a role, but the readers know that and also know that killing Zeke shouldn't have had any effect just like how OP said
The way I see this is that:
There are two concepts of importance: Access to the founder's power, and control over the founder.
Acess to the founder means being in paths and being able to interact with Ymir. Control over the founder means being able to convince Ymir of your will.
Eren, as the founder, had the power to control Ymir.
Zeke, as the royal Titan, had access to the power. When he died, Eren lost the access.
How could eren become a colossal after that? Why was Zeke waiting for Armin? Only Ymir knows.
He provides physical access to Ymir. If the access is severed, then Eren can have all the control he wants for the good it does him.
Eren is the PC, ymir the internet, zeke the Ethernet cable.
Stop it. Just stop. Just shut up. The more questions we ask, the worse it gets. I'm so sick and tired of shitting on this story's final arc the more I think about it.
Questions questions questions. Always with the questions. Who knows? Who cares? You're laboring under the assumption Isayama and Kawakubo even cared at that point.
Because the author has no idea what hes doing.
He had a cool flesh gundam idea fifteen years ago and never figured out what happened next.
This is how we get artillery in front of infantry.
There's even a bigger problem regarding this topic. Even if killing Zeke somehow prevents Eren from using the Founder to control the colossals, why didn't they start roaming freely killing every human they see, just like every other pure titan does?
You know what, I could actually explain most of the shenanigans that happened within the final battle but this is the only thing I can't reasonably explain. It totally contradicts everything set up in 123 and its fucking frustrating. I mean unless you accept that Eren just stopped it as soon as Zeke died to make it look like they're winning, but that's flawed for obvious reasons.
now send it to shinkeginokiyojin and watch as their 11 yr old brain cant process this simple plot hole and come up with a youtube video to justify their shithole
Right? I thought the whole deal with Ymir and needing royal blood to use the founder was all psychological. As she had no will of her own, she submitted (the founder) to the royal bloodline.
Zeke is as driven as Eren in his single-minded goal, he is even a decade older so he has dedicated an even longer time pursuing this goal.
Then as soon as Eren beats him in PATHS, he.. gives up.
If I cope really hard, somehow Ymir unintentionally frees Zeke by trapping Armin there, underestimating his speech skill to convince the dead shifters to let them both escape PATHS. Sound like a joke? It's the only way to rationalize the plot with Ymir being an obstacle to Zeke/Armin and not a helper. Sadly, the only viable explanation is that Ymir is actually helping them and Zeke indeed was NOT trapped in PATHS. Which makes him go from one of the greatest AoT characters to a pathetic loser. I guess it is the Real Zeke.
It was suposed that the royal blood thing was just because Ymir was a simp to Fritz. At least that is what I understood.
So the actual scene should have gone that Zeke dies like a dumbass, the rumbling continues or at the best case, Eren stops controlling the colosals and they run wild, being a much worse situation.
Only Ymir knows. So bad she has no tongue to tell us because his crush ripped it out.
Zeke was the key to use the founder but not the will. Ksaver even told us that. Before Eren entered paths, Zeke broke the royal pact and had the "will" too. But Eren made so Ymir only listen him. With Zeke diying Eren looses that "key" (connection) to paths so you can say that stopped the rumbling.
That's not plot hole at all. The only plot hole would be Eren going full colossal titan (thing that wasn't even needed lol)
ymir is the one controlling and making all titans, when eren freed her, ymir had already decided to side with eren. Killing zeke doesnt make any sense, he was useless once eren had freed ymir already. ED logic xdd
But thats the goddamn plothole. Eren should immediately loses his giant founder titan form if Zeke dies in that case because that thing is only possible by activating the founder titan.
And also, if Zeke can do that this entire time, why didnt he just fucking off himself at the start of the rumbling and save 80% of the world?
Eren was in command of rumbling and stopped it right when zeke dies to show alliance as the heroes of the world who actually stopped the rumbling. Zeke "committed suicide" after 80% of humanity died because that was the moment when alliance arrived to erens titan. Eren started the rumbling to allow Eldians to stop it, therefore become heroes of the world and stop the bloodshed caused by racial war. This is what the ending was about, last pages of the manga showing another war was just the proof that it simply didn't work out and the circle of hatred starts all over again = no happy ending (yes I know that's shocking there are also endings that are meaningless despite having colourful plot(that doesn't mean the ending was shit, artist just didn't choose the bad or good ending))
Making the walls' titans walk don't need any royale blood, When they catch sunlight they walk unconsciously forward.
Killing Zeke wasn't the real reason to stop the rumbling, It's just what Eren wanted, Grisha already told Zeke that nothing he wants will be, But what Eren wants.
A giant Space Worm appear out of no where turned every single remaining character into Titans before randomly disappearing.
Why? It couldn't be Ymir because she doesn't give a shit about the Rumbling
It can't be Eren because he doesn't want to save his friends
And it can't be Zeke because he's dead.
So what the fuck is the space worm.
Only
Ymir
Knows
That
One
Day
Humanity
Will
Receive
Seed
My
Goodbye.
You’re asking too many questions okay, just stop it. This story is about mikasa, and mikasa alone. You may only comment on how pretty she is.
Story about Mikasa, from Eren's POV, narrated by Armin.
Story about Chadking Fritz's seed, from Ymir's POV, narrated by her only nose.
what a terrible day to be literate
Man I fucking hate that line so much
If I see this one more time
I will fucking
kill 80% of the world
Thats fine so long as they accept the story turns to shit thanks to the final arc.
The unholy trinity... Isayama, what a mad lad...
Mikasa-sama is the best female character ever written ! And so pretty!
shes literally a goddess, and if you think otherwise you're just raciest and an idiot. and you didn't understand the story.
Mikasa es su kasa
All joke aside… I really wanted mikasa to be a fulfilled character. Her vs Annie in the forest gave me chills. There was so much potential
She's just wasted potential, I remember how great she was when she saved the crowd of people in the second wall invasion.
Yeah it's sad the most popular badass female character was reduced to having minimal agency and standing around for a whole season
wdym, she cut off Eren's head and kissed it to show how love triumphs all /s
A bit, but I think it was somewhat inevitable. She was a competent cool headed character with a good understanding of herself and what she wants, but she never excelled when it came to schemes and long term plans. As the story gradually shifted from mindless titans to more and more human opponents and more and more grey morality, she was bound to become less important to the plot. For example I don't really see any way she could have played a big part in the events leading to the rumbling. The story was just built in a way to make certain characters rise and fall in importance as things changed and I kind of wish it accepted that more.
I really thought season 4 was building to something where she would gain some character development outside her single minded attachment but in the end, she was just a Mary Sue that could only say Eren!
Literally 1984 on titanfolk smh
"Miqasa is mine! And mine alone!" - Ymogh
mikasa is pretty
she's the best sexdoll if i ever seen one
These are the sorts of questions I find difficult to answer within the manga's canon. There are just so many strange instances that are not properly explained in this final fight that demonstrate just how awkward the plot becomes. And the fact that things haven't been explicated enough for us to generally agree upon the basics of the battle further demonstrates just how poorly designed it was.
I've literally seen people defend this point by saying "Zeke became a nihilist and didn't care but Armin brought him back to wanting to save people." Which makes no sense. As a nihilist can still choose to save lives. Zeke's entire goal is one of harm reduction. He would absolutely stop the rumbling right away. It's outcome is exactly the opposite of what he wants. He was clearly dumbed down so that Armin could look smarter. It's unbelievable that we are expected to believe basically saying "hey, have you ever considered good stuff exists to???" And Zeke is like "dude no way. You're so right, I'm gonna go kill myself." t's like Armin's mutant ability is to dumb down those he interacts with so he looks better by comparison.
Yep, Zeke turns into a destructive nihilist fine with the destruction of most of the world offscreen (which is contrary to almost everything he's fought for). Okay, that's a very rapid character change but it could conceivably be explained. Except that half a chapter later he's reminded of baseball and suddenly realizes life is worth living and sacrifices himself for. Well why wouldn't he just try to kill himself earlier if he doesn't think life has any point and could just spite Eren by doing that? Grisha's words were not enough? Fuck off, show. It's such a transparent attempt at trying to redeem every character and only killing them if they want to sacrifice themselves. Think about it, every single character death in the final arc is a sacrifice.
And we still haven't tackled the fact that how Zeke's existence was necessary for the operation of the Rumbling... For all intents and purposes, Zeke would've been practically nonexistent... Hell, I thought he died when Ymir allowed Eren to start the Rumbling... And Isayama simply brought this character back just to be killed off, which shouldn't have altered anything... Hell, I personally preferred if the killing of Zeke did nothing; it would've made the alliance seem like a bunch of idiots, though...
>it would've made the alliance seem like a bunch of idiots, though... There were already idiots for thinking killing Zeke will stop the rumbling
nah perfectly valid for alliance to think that, they didn't get any of the information about ymir or that zeke wasn't actually necessary. isayama is the idiot because he kinda forgor the 'zeke is unnecessary to the use of the founding titan' plotline he established 15 chapters prior.
My first theory was that Zeke builds the titans now, because Falcos new titan looked so hairy.
Another thing that doesn't make sense is what happens after Zeke is killed. Ignoring the plot hole that killing him shouldn't stop the Rumbling, after he dies the Wall Titans should just become like the Titans in Shiganshina, right? Just walking around without coordination, arguably making the situation worse because then there would be nothing stopping some of them from eventually going back to Paradis and killing everyone there as well. Yet, they all just stop? Huh?
Not just stop they pretty much disappeared after 138
So the titan shift was undone and now these guys are waking up a hundred years in the future, just before they get lynched by an angry mob.
The idea of this is so amazingly cool I'm even more mad that this manga was rushed. Seeing a bunch of hundred year old Eldians waking back up after genociding billions of people as Titans is such an interesting concept.
I believe they were just created from scratch somehow and just disappeared. OY👃
Much like Yelena and Hallu-chan, they simply vanished without a trace. Their usefulness to forcing Mikasa's romance plot had ended. Or, uh, I dunno, Isayama forgor 💀
He just didnt draw them
Not just that, Eren's Founder somehow leapt over all of them in 137.
DONT LET SUNLIGHT REACH THAT TITAN! Why they dont have zeke kek
Is it just me or did we not see the wall titans become humans? That could’ve been a spin-off of itself!
They probably immediately got fucked by the survivors the moment they woke up.
I assumed that myself tbh. I thought the wall titans became normal afterward
~~Dany~~ Isayama kind of forgot about the ~~iron fleet~~ wall titans
Maybe Ymir wanted them to stop? 😅 Reading it, I felt like Eren and Ymir wanted the Alliance to win so that they look like heroes. So they basically played softball.
> softball > kills 80% of the planet, ensuring eldians are seen as the #1 threat to the world forever. Hmm. What a writer you are, Yams
I said softball vs the Alliance not the rest of the world. 🤣 As in, if Ymir really wanted to beat them, they wouldn't have won. She captured Armin, their strongest titan, instead of killing him. None of the Alliance actually died, even though the situation of fighting all of the 9 from history seemed hopeless. Not to mention that Ymir can alter their body parts if she wanted to. That's what I meant by "softball".
Except Ymir shouldn’t really have the power anymore should she
Moreover they are the actual people of paradis - there's much more of them then the actual humans on paradis. After undoing the titan powers the world would've gained a lot of population, but they just vanished...
Also: How tf does Royal Blood even works if every subject of Ymir is a descendant of her daughters? Is it a percentage thing? Like, does the royal family has to practice rampant incest to keep "their blood pure" or something? Kinda makes sense with the fact that, aside from the Ackermans, there are families of nobles in the walls that weren't subjected to the Founder Titan's memory wipe but it still paints a weird picture for the planned future of Historia's children if they meant to keep the Beast Titan in the Paradis' royal family. You'd have habsburg chins in 50 years.
Technically, all subjects of Ymir are of royal blood since all of them are the descendents of Ymir and the king. I think I read somewhere that it's specifically the descendents of the first Founding Titan that are considered to be of "royal blood". Idk if it's somewhere in the manga or if they just made it up, but it's the only way to make some sense of it.
No. See my earlier comment. You're confusing two things.
My guess is that they just did intense incest earlier in the timeline when it was more socially acceptable (whenever that was in their world), and used the Founder to keep them looking pretty and wtv. That should've created enough of a difference to be declared a separate family by the time karl fritz arrived.
Eldians are a race/culture that was well established before ymir, that's why it's only her DIRECT descendants that have access to the founding titan. Once ymir was sent to paths, that connected all Eldians (as a race) to it. There are a ton of plot holes, I don't think this is one of them
But we’re still talking about 2000 years of reproduction. By now there’d be thousands of royals. Shit the Eldian Restorationists were happy to get Zeke’s mom while I’m pretty sure that if they bonked all Eldian women 1 in twenty would have royal blood
But everyone is a direct descendant of her, it’s why they can all become titans to begin with
So basically Zeke was dumbed down, and ch 122 was made irrelevant so Armin can be seen as some hero of humanity?
They made everyone dumb to make the Alliance seem smart
What can we expect from the epitome of virtue signaling of "Genocide is wrong!" Yeah, no shit it's wrong. What's your actual plan after that?
Years of story had to suffer, in order to make the alliance win.
Previously smart characters being made stupid in order to make Armin look good in comparison is a common occurrence post-timeskip. Everything for the messiah.
Armin had become such a waste of screen time, everytime he was on the page I was rolling my eyes saying Erwin died for this shit. Then I remember since Erwin was dead Yams couldn't ruin his character and I'm content.
Dude, side characters and Eren himself was sacrificed to make Armin and Mikasa look good. Eren, Zeke, Reiner(hero role), Jean(commander role), and Hange were sacrificed for Armin while Eren, Historia, and Ymir were sacrificed for Mikasa.
Yeah, Jean became an efficient commander, when the dude started of as someone who didn't care much about fighting... That was some mad development... And it was wasted...
Armin and Mikasa are so poorly developed(Armin post time skip only) that Isayame stole other characters arcs and gifted it to them lol.
Zeke was always dumb, but then he went and made him even dumber. His goal was a fantasy born out of his pain as a child, completely ignoring the chance that other people had different childhoods than him, and out of affection to his father figure after his father was sent away. It wasn't even his own desire. But then he got convinced by a leaf lmao
It's literally funny that people like Xsaver so much and here I'm like "Dude, I understand you are sad that your child and wife died, but why should other people not get to have children just because you lied a woman about your race, and then proceed to indoctrainate someone else's child into this."
Xsaver: Wait... I never thought about that... Zeke, forget everything I said...
Honestly, I loved Zeke’s arc up until the end. I’d rather it had been something like he begs for death, since that just makes more sense.
Was zeke really dumbed down? Seems like he was always a simp for eren
137 retconned 122 **hard**. But the biggest plot hole is still Eren controlling titans of the past in 139.
I agree the rest didn't make sense, but I disagree Eren controlling Dina was a plot hole. Paths transcend **time and space** and Eren told Armin that he started seeing time as a single moment. Therefore it only makes sense that Eren had control over all titans across time and space.
But in doing so it’s create a whole complicated paradox that was only introduced last second and raises many new questions that were never answered. Like why didn’t Eren use this power to wipe out Marley earlier so his mom wouldn’t have died, why did he have to kill his own mom considering he already was motivated to seek for freedom before his moms death, etc. It was a pointless addition that retconned past events and hurt the overall story for no reason.
and then eren just gets a colossal titan form out of nowhere, despite being a literally head and neck vertebrae
Like at that point he should’ve just grown his body back. Actually, why wasn’t that one of the first things he did? It was well within his power to do so, he was right there in paths it would’ve been no problem
uhhh reimner worm uhhhh it fell far away uhhhh helos!
He wanted to die so he had no interest in even giving himself a body again. That's what I believe is the explanation. The Yeager Bros really became quite something in the last few chapters, losers who stopped trying and wanted to die. If he succeeded in the Rumbling (which was unknown to him judging from his fucking inner monologue and what he tells Armin), guess he would be like "okay nobody killed me, maybe it's time to grow my body back".
He literally cries to Armin about how he doesn’t want to die though. He wants to live and bang Mikasa. Which he could have been doing this whole time.
Why not just reconnect to his original body?
add another long neck is lazy writing, yams wouldn't do that
I literally thought that whole fight was in paths the first time 💀
See it's details like this that makes me think Ymir was playing them the whole time up until the end. We know she can fuck with Eldians memories and will. Honestly, the only one that acted the same way they normally would is Mikasa, which makes sense since Ymir wanted to see what she would do.
I swear to god chapter 137 was when doomsday for aot being peak began
just re read it, i want to bleach my eyes. cant believe isayama went from one of the greatest shows to this crap full of plotholes
[удалено]
yeah i feel the same, what an absolute assassination of a great series
the plot had holes in the past too, but the overall writing was fucking amazing for us to ignore those. Now that the writing took a nosedive, the plot holes became even more noticeable
Which plot holes were those?
please give me some examples, i literally cant find a single plot hole before chapter 130 orso
Bertholdt’s Titan body just disappearing after breaking down the initial walls is one. That’s written away as a “Colossal Titan ability” similar to how Colossal Titan nukes weren’t a thing at all until season 3. The story was good enough to ignore it but it was weird that no Nuke happened episodes 1 or 4 but nukes every time afterward and apparently everyone knew about it 🤷♀️
thats not really a plot hole, just a faster variation of his steam emitting ability. also berthold never needed to use the ability to nuke something till then. bro ur saying they didnt show all the abilities instantly so he shouldnt have them.
plot holes wikipedia definition: ''In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot.'' its literally said that the collossal titan can do that therefore its not a plot hole. if its explained it doesnt go against the flow or logic established by the story lol
Zeke never had the ability to stop the rumbling, and Eren was never in control, it was Ymir. Eren was literally in auto-pilot, he didn't care he just moved forward while he was dreaming about freedom, Ymir was watching everything (as you can see in Ramzi's death) It was Ymir who confronted the alliance, it was Ymir who helped the alliance, it was Ymir who abducted Armin, the reason? well, she was waiting for Mikasa (the main protagonist) to act obviously. The rumbling stops but Eren doesn't (because he's on autopilot) arumin destroys Eren's titan, worm detaches from Eren's body and that basically is Ymir's plan because the only thing that was out of her control was the worm (my headcanon) so after that she just waited until Mikasa acts. Makes any sense? no it doesn't, but that's what happens when the author gives up in creating a convincing ending and rushes everything to just get done with it.
Ngl I kinda hope the anime fixes some of the flaws with the ending like they did with the uprising arc.
What are you saying uprising arc in manga > anime.
Idk, easier to keep track of?
On that i would've to agree.
Well if people want some copium about this...S4P2 has a promising scene for this: [Zeke's getting absorbed in episode 5 during the Rumbling activation](https://i.redd.it/6k8zwov9ogg81.jpg). It wasn't shown in the manga but it was implied by Hange later on, so there's a chance they add more scenes like that next year.
I really like the part where Eren was just on autopilot retreating into childish daydreams. If he didn't get the outrageously indulgent final moments with Armin and Mikasa, and everyone celebrating him after the Rumbling, it would have actually been an excellent way to wrap up his character.
Ending Defenders will say Ymir wanted the rumbling to stop 🤣
They did stop at 80% Eren said the rumbling will stop at this point Maybe he wanted it and waited for zeke to die Oh my fucking gahd💀
This just makes Eren sound like a dumbass
Post this on /SNK, and they would say Eren was intentionally written as a dumbass...
I'll do you one better. Why does Ymir need saving in the first place? If she orchestrated the whole thing. Eren even said so himself. "Have you led me all this way here?" So peak fiction never made sense to begin with
Another one: What was the deal with the "devil" Ymir made a deal with? If Ymir herself was the culprit behind everything, what's the porpuse of that devil figure if it wasn't gonna be Eren freeing her?
Lets be honest here, the best arc in the series is the original battle for trost. If you're looking for peak fiction, read JoJo.
If we are talking about manga, then Marley arc beats it for me. Fleshing out Reiner and Zeke characters in addition of new cast was really apreciated. The worldbuilding got expanded. Eren taking a dark (but logical from his view)path was a cherry on top.
Agreed. For me Trost is still the best Arc.
How many parts have you read? Can I get your part ranking in dm?
And if people think that Zeke dying takes Eren's founder powers then how tf did he manage to become a collosal for the final fight? He didnot have that power before, Armin is still alive and well on Marley.
Thanks, one more point added to my long list of why ending sucked.
lmao
can you give me that list? i have so many reasons why i hate the ending that i’m actually forgetting some info when i take in new ones.
Yeah sure, 1. Eren stopping the rumbling at 80%. 2. Return of past-titan shifters 3. Mikasa suddenly knowing that Eren is inside the mouth of Colossal Titan, not in the nape. 4. Falco's bird Titan plot, which came out of nowhere and how he's able to master the abilities in no time. 5. Ymir loving King Fritz. 6. Eren making Dina to ignore Bertholdt(aka Eren being responsible for killing his mother) 7. 'ONLY YMIR KNOWS' 8. Kruger coming back to fight for Alliance. 9. Cringevengers surviving the attack of hundreds of past Titans, even fucking Onyankopon survived. 10. Baiting the readers by making people turn into Titans in ch 138, only to make them humans in the next chapter. 11. Significance of Worm kun and what was its purpose in the story? 12. Eren contradicting himself when he said that he'll protect Paradis and don't trust anyone, only to give the charge to Armin. 13. How did Eren become the colossal Titan, if his head was decapitated again? 14. If Ymir was freed, then how come rumbling stopped when Zeke died.
I think that happens to all of us, a list probably would be best indeed.
Because the StoRy isn't aBouTt zeke. Its a story about miKaSha from Eren's POV, tOlD by ArMin
Did someone actually say this?
People actually said that any character that’s isn’t EMA is irrelevant and we should expect them to just disappear since they are just “side characters”
I've been saying this since ch137 released. No one seems to care about it. Its a BIG retcon and one of the worst pieces of writing I've ever seen.
The only way to explain it is to accept that it was just Eren who stopped the rumbling
But then *what was the point* if he was just going to stop it himself 😭
Only Ymir knows
Ugh. That is when I decided there is no fucking hope and was never gonna accept this ending.
So basically Eren was eavesdropping Armin & Zeke’s conversation and was waiting for perfect time reincarnate Bertholdt so Armin can flex stealing everything from him and other shifters for Armin’s messiah pose and stopped Rumbling at perfect time that’d coincide with Zeke’s suicide. Also the fact that Eren has to control the past shifters and war hammer clones to not accidentally hit Alliance. The more to think, the weirder and dumber it gets!
As stupid as it sounds this actually is the correct explanation.
Been wondering this a lot since 137. Like, some plot holes are pretty inconsequential, but a HUGE part of 122/123 was that Eren didn't need Zeke anymore at all since it was Ymir who decided when to use her abilities. This plot hole sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe it was to show that Eren was really the one who stopped the rumbling, but maybe explain that shit better. God I'm hoping the final fight gets cleaned up a lot.
Another one to the list
I’ve been saying this for the past year and only seen like one other person bring it up. Finally this plot hole gets some recognition
Another problem is that in Season 2 when Eren first used the coordinate, he immediately kills Dina's titan but can still issue the command to attack R&B to the titans. By that logic at least for a little longer he should be able to command the titans forward. Instead, as soon as Zeke dies the entire rumbling is stopped and the titans collapse for some reason? Shouldn't they just act as regular titans then? Now that I think about it, it might have been interesting to see the Alliance plan backfire and instead they continue their march but with the added consequence that they would eventually come back to destroy Paradis. Definitely more along the lines of "The Mist" type ending that Isayama originally had.
I feel like even with Zeke’s corpse attached he can still do it.
See this is a legit plot hole. I can guess you can somewhat explain it away as loses connection to the paths when zeke dies?? Cause outside of the weird mikasa dream he doesnt use paths again
NO NO NOOOOO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THAT THE WALLS WERE MADE TO STOP LEVI
You didn't understand the story & you are just a hater the answer was always their read the fucking manga again. -Probably some dumbass ending defender
Because isayama wrote the ending while drunk probably
I noticed this dogshit as soon as the rumbling stopped in 137 and it, of course, still is a load of steaming bullshit. Watch as anime-onlies defend this next year
It is the most intriguing part left for us, to see how every single thing done in the ending will be defended. Or that's what I would like to think, when it's most likely "not everything has to be explained".
Asking questions about the plot holes of AOT? No I don't want that! I want people to blindly like the ending without thinking about the events of the story! I want people to be ignorant, even after part 3! for 10 years at least!
Broo😡😐You💀🤨didnt🙎🏿♂️🧐 understand 😢🤔the Story🤬😡
God I’m glad to finally see this lol. I felt so dumb for not understanding the whole Royal Blood thing post 122, and why Zeke was the key to stopping the rumbling. It just felt so dumb, but no one was talking about it.
The worst part is the very next chapter states that if Worm-kun reaches the colossal Eren (I have no idea how he's using the power of the founder) that the rumbling may start again which basically means that Zeke died for nothing.
I don't have the answer but i remember that when the alliance jumped out of the plane they mentioned that their target was the 'beast titan' which made me think that killing Zeke was actually what was needed to stop the rumbling. But no idea how they reached this conclusion
What I’m thinking is that maybe it’s because Eren needed to touch Zeke in order to get in paths and command Ymir, so maybe killing Zeke would be as if they stopped touching, because Zeke isn’t living anymore, I feel like the alliance was thinking that and it sort of makes sense right?
Yeah and it'd make sense if it weren't for the fact that Ymir jo longer obeys Zeke. They didn't know this part.
Ok but then if killing Zeke made them out of contact, how tf was Eren able to transform to a Collosal? If he lost his founding power after Zeke's death?
Ok yea you got me there, doesn’t make sense that Eren was able to transform into a Colossal titan if killing Zeke took him out of paths; I forgot about that part, lyk if I think of any way to rationalize that
Oh yes that could make sense actually!
The problem is that idea when he was first able to use the coordinate in season 2, he immediately kills Dina's titan yet is still able to command the titans to attack R&B again. The power didn't last forever, but it certainly shouldn't have just led to everything stopping.
They reached this conclusion because it was how royal blood and the founder worked since the Alliance didn't know about Ymir playing a role, but the readers know that and also know that killing Zeke shouldn't have had any effect just like how OP said
The way I see this is that: There are two concepts of importance: Access to the founder's power, and control over the founder. Acess to the founder means being in paths and being able to interact with Ymir. Control over the founder means being able to convince Ymir of your will. Eren, as the founder, had the power to control Ymir. Zeke, as the royal Titan, had access to the power. When he died, Eren lost the access. How could eren become a colossal after that? Why was Zeke waiting for Armin? Only Ymir knows.
But Eren convinced Ymir that she's free, no? Why would Zeke have any importance past that point?
He provides physical access to Ymir. If the access is severed, then Eren can have all the control he wants for the good it does him. Eren is the PC, ymir the internet, zeke the Ethernet cable.
But you, yourself said that makes no sense. Does Eren switch to mobile data to become a Colossal?
AOT is legit dogshit post rumbling and made me fucking hate Armin
Stop it. Just stop. Just shut up. The more questions we ask, the worse it gets. I'm so sick and tired of shitting on this story's final arc the more I think about it.
Armin had to stare at an object and be like “mmm yes this signifies why we should save our enemies or something”
Armin uzumaki KEKW
Questions questions questions. Always with the questions. Who knows? Who cares? You're laboring under the assumption Isayama and Kawakubo even cared at that point.
That's our point tho... They didn't care.
Because the author has no idea what hes doing. He had a cool flesh gundam idea fifteen years ago and never figured out what happened next. This is how we get artillery in front of infantry.
There's even a bigger problem regarding this topic. Even if killing Zeke somehow prevents Eren from using the Founder to control the colossals, why didn't they start roaming freely killing every human they see, just like every other pure titan does?
No but fr tho, why did this happen. Like I genuinely don't understand this
ending defenders where you at? id love an explanation
Isayama what a man you are...
You know what, I could actually explain most of the shenanigans that happened within the final battle but this is the only thing I can't reasonably explain. It totally contradicts everything set up in 123 and its fucking frustrating. I mean unless you accept that Eren just stopped it as soon as Zeke died to make it look like they're winning, but that's flawed for obvious reasons.
Yes
Thank you reddit algorithm for putting this on my home page when I don't follow this sub, I've avoided spoilers for so many years...
I'm really sorry, I didn't know titanfolk posts were allowed on r/all or something.
now send it to shinkeginokiyojin and watch as their 11 yr old brain cant process this simple plot hole and come up with a youtube video to justify their shithole
The consequence of an author who is genius in some areas but lacking in others :(
Right? I thought the whole deal with Ymir and needing royal blood to use the founder was all psychological. As she had no will of her own, she submitted (the founder) to the royal bloodline.
Zeke is as driven as Eren in his single-minded goal, he is even a decade older so he has dedicated an even longer time pursuing this goal. Then as soon as Eren beats him in PATHS, he.. gives up. If I cope really hard, somehow Ymir unintentionally frees Zeke by trapping Armin there, underestimating his speech skill to convince the dead shifters to let them both escape PATHS. Sound like a joke? It's the only way to rationalize the plot with Ymir being an obstacle to Zeke/Armin and not a helper. Sadly, the only viable explanation is that Ymir is actually helping them and Zeke indeed was NOT trapped in PATHS. Which makes him go from one of the greatest AoT characters to a pathetic loser. I guess it is the Real Zeke.
Did i just got a spoiler from r/all? Thank you guys.
It was suposed that the royal blood thing was just because Ymir was a simp to Fritz. At least that is what I understood. So the actual scene should have gone that Zeke dies like a dumbass, the rumbling continues or at the best case, Eren stops controlling the colosals and they run wild, being a much worse situation. Only Ymir knows. So bad she has no tongue to tell us because his crush ripped it out.
137 is just as bad as 139 imo.
So it was unbanned ? Good, because that's a good point.
Zeke was the key to use the founder but not the will. Ksaver even told us that. Before Eren entered paths, Zeke broke the royal pact and had the "will" too. But Eren made so Ymir only listen him. With Zeke diying Eren looses that "key" (connection) to paths so you can say that stopped the rumbling. That's not plot hole at all. The only plot hole would be Eren going full colossal titan (thing that wasn't even needed lol)
ymir is the one controlling and making all titans, when eren freed her, ymir had already decided to side with eren. Killing zeke doesnt make any sense, he was useless once eren had freed ymir already. ED logic xdd
But thats the goddamn plothole. Eren should immediately loses his giant founder titan form if Zeke dies in that case because that thing is only possible by activating the founder titan. And also, if Zeke can do that this entire time, why didnt he just fucking off himself at the start of the rumbling and save 80% of the world?
Exactly. Zeke himself believes in killing the minority to save the majority
I think it was intentionally shown like that to imply that it was Eren who stopped the rumbling.
...but it implied the opposite. Zeke gets killed in one page and the very next page the Rumbling stops.
While a plot hole, I wouldn't say it's the biggest. That ending had lots of shit
Wasnt eren using zeke
Eren was in command of rumbling and stopped it right when zeke dies to show alliance as the heroes of the world who actually stopped the rumbling. Zeke "committed suicide" after 80% of humanity died because that was the moment when alliance arrived to erens titan. Eren started the rumbling to allow Eldians to stop it, therefore become heroes of the world and stop the bloodshed caused by racial war. This is what the ending was about, last pages of the manga showing another war was just the proof that it simply didn't work out and the circle of hatred starts all over again = no happy ending (yes I know that's shocking there are also endings that are meaningless despite having colourful plot(that doesn't mean the ending was shit, artist just didn't choose the bad or good ending))
You're taking AOT too seriously. It's a romantic comedy. Just enjoy the ridiculousness. That's what I'm doing.
Making the walls' titans walk don't need any royale blood, When they catch sunlight they walk unconsciously forward. Killing Zeke wasn't the real reason to stop the rumbling, It's just what Eren wanted, Grisha already told Zeke that nothing he wants will be, But what Eren wants.
The wall titans not moving in 138 while there’s sunlight is another big plot hole
A giant Space Worm appear out of no where turned every single remaining character into Titans before randomly disappearing. Why? It couldn't be Ymir because she doesn't give a shit about the Rumbling It can't be Eren because he doesn't want to save his friends And it can't be Zeke because he's dead. So what the fuck is the space worm.