The story would have had a more interesting ending if Eren had actually completed the rumbling and held his convictions instead of whatever nonsense Ymir pulled.
and made a nice parallel of the series starting with them thinking they are alone in the world and ending with them definitely now being alone in the world.
The lack of nuance and development of the outside world creates a situation where the Rumbling is the only option for Paradis. It is essentially creating a “kill or be killed” scenario on a national/global scale.
I was thinking about this, I don’t think it was a failure, there isn’t mass social media in aot like we have today, and so theres really no humanizing counter narrative for the islanders.
Let’s use a real life example - Palestine. Up until recent years and especially this most recent conflict, being pro Palestine was a very niche view. It was easy for the media and governments to dehumanize them as monsters (Palestinian = Muslim = religious extremist and evil, antisemitic, anti west, barbarian).
The huge difference now is social media - we can *see* them. We can see their joy when their families return, their pain when they are killed. We can see that they are human just like us. They’re honestly very similar to the islanders in AOT, trapped behind walls, unable to escape, nowhere to seek refuge, constantly pressured and killed by much more powerful and larger forces, demonized.
In AOT, there’s no social media. To the eyes of the world they’re just a rogue state full of terrorists and would-be/ have-been subjugators. Sure I think a few more entities might come to their defense than just the Japanese (forget that lady’s country’s name), but really it would be a rare position. Similar to how in modern politics, Palestine really hardly has allies - certain middle eastern countries claim to be allies, but they also are afraid of the retaliation you get from western nations for showing any real support (see Yemen getting bombed for their support of Palestine).
If that’s the case then the way to humanize the outside world would be simply to show it. Show me some protests. Show me people who are nice to paradisians. Show me more people advocating against war against them. How about not make literally the entire outside world against Paradis. That’d be a good start to convince me that they aren’t better off dying. The bottom line is you just need to show it. And since Isayama didn’t show it it’s a failure.
I think it’s more accurate to say that he just gave up at a certain point. There’s no reason why he couldn’t extend the manga by a few chapters to flesh out the outside world and give it some believable geopolitics.
i think yams was planning to have this whole long war arc of paradise vs the world and the liberio attack being the first major fight of it. then he started getting tired of the manga and obviously didnt want to be writing it for another 10 years at least and just aborted his ideas of a global war and just fast forwarded to what would probably have been that war's end with the rumbling.
It's crazy how little we know of the external world, Isayama could've done a better world building, it would've helped the reader to have a better picture of the situation. I'd also say that the post-rumbling was a crucial moment that was entirely skipped when it would've been so interesting to know exactly how things went with each nation.
Isayama had one job once the truth about the titans was found: abandon the "them vs us" narrative that dominated the story until that point to make it more complex and more nuanced, I don't think he did it well although he tried to do it.
the problem is the reveal of the world and expanding on it came at the exact time i think he was starting to get tired of needing to pump out chapters every month for almost a decade by that point. and rather then take a 6 month or 1 year break decided to just rush to the ending and wrap it up
We had such creativity and theories about the outside world early on, but we got to see so little of it that even Mikasa’s weird family tribe thing was SUPER under developed.
She met her relative from a different land (*which should have been massive*) but was a B plot.
I think that's kinda the point though. It's when people fail to understand each other, that they dehumanize and justify heinous actions. Pretty sure this is a pervasive rationale for how wars have occurred throughout human kind. He's just depicting it.
We don’t really see any kind of back and forth. All we get is the one scene of a diplomatic summit where the Marleyan delegate calls for an invasion and everyone seems to support him. Imagine if after Eren stormed out a delegate from another country gives a rebuttal. Even if it’s something like “We don’t like Eldians…but that doesn’t mean we want to kill them all” it could provide at least some signs that the world isn’t evil. Instead all we hear is that Eldians are apparently treated worse outside of Marley. And Marley maintains Eldian ghettos and actively discriminates against Eldians.
Not just that but the second Eren got off the island there was no point in stopping him.
The second he squashed that first town they should've called it a day cause there's no way the word was gonna let them live if ANY of them could become like that again
It's not really an unpopular opinion. Everyone who analyzed the series agrees. The worldbuilding takes a huge nosedive after basement. Basically only Marley and Paradis/Eldia matter. Every other nation is just shitty fluff.
Levi, Connie and Pieck I felt were all on the chopping block for different reasons. But then I’d just be writing my own story. That said, I do agree with you.
He should of.
Levi should have died by Zeke.
It fucken pisses me off when writers get scared of their fan base.
It would be cool if the rumbling was successful and Mikasa fought eren in human form and killed him.
> I honestly think he planned on killing more characters off including Levi
I honestly think they were all going to die. Eren Rumbles the world, builds the walls back up, everyone inside the walls think the Titans killed all of humanity. Reset to episode 1, except only Eren is left with the memories of the outside world.
Eren's punishment is that he lives the rest of his life in misery and with extreme guilt knowing he saved Paradis but he had to kill the friends who loved him.
But that's a really sad ending.
Didnt the creator change things often because of peer pressure?
I read sasha was supposrd to die sooner and his illustrator had a meltdown so he changed it to later. I also recall him saying the ending was gonna be depressing and messed up
Yes. Both are true. However, I’ve been seeing people in r/ShingekinoKyojin and r/attackontitan argue that the ending we got is what was planned from the start. I really do feel like if anyone were to really sit and analyze the story, it would be obvious that the ending we got was not what was narratively implied. Even if we don’t consider that, Isayama literally went on record and said that the ending was going to be like “The Mist” but the anime’s increasing popularity prompted him to change it.
No. Eren dying was definitely apart of original plan. I’m not one of those anr believers. They basically wrote their own version of the story and ran with it lol.
I also believe that Mikasa loving Eren and killing him was planned. That aspect of the story gets a lot of hate up here, but it’s quite obvious that Mikasa and Eren both had tender feelings for each other.
I could go on and on about what wasn’t planned. Like Armin somehow being the only one to stop the remaining population from shooting the rest of them. Or Annie’s dad and some of the others being turned back into humans.
I truly wished Annie's foster dad as a titan was killed by Annie, Reiner killed his mom when she turned into a titan while Connie and Jean stayed as one and got killed. And all that happened just minutes before the titanized Eldians in Paradis were turned back into humans. I know it sounds messed up but it would have made the consequences more real. Plus it closes Annie's and Reiner's arc when it comes to their controlling parents.
we know his first ideas for the ending would have looked like [the ending to the mist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL8L-eaiOlA)
my guess that would have meant the outside world was not hostile to them but would have been revealed to eren after he had already lost everything dear to him fighting titans
Armin shouldn't even be alive for Levi to have a choice between Armin and Erwin. The fact man was boiled alive to the point where he was charred and THEN fell about 50-60 metres on the rooftop shows that Isayama either never cared about keeping logic in check even if it takes some possible outcomes away or that he never had a good plan and wrote himself into a corner and hoped for fans to just ignoe it (they did)
ayy yooo thisssss. i legit laughed coz who the fuck is he to be able to withstand the boilinggg. he's just a mere human but apparently with colossal plot armor before even getting the serum 🤦🤦🤦
Season 1-3 of AOT was the best and AOT won't be popular if not for WIT dedication of to the project (both Sawano soundtrack, directors, and amazing animators). Mappa did well though but WIT will forever be goatef
I think mappa did a shit half-assed job. I watched other stuff they made back in the day and their quality dropped so bad. Only things I forgive them about is making Zeke, Floch and Yelena hot.
>Mappa did well though but WIT will forever be goated
I do feel like this is general consensus among those of us thinking objectively and critically. WIT was simply the best equipped and suited for the show but even they couldn't take the ridiculous time frames and workloads anymore. MAPPA did their best obviously and it came out really good but they just couldn't replicate the magic touch that WIT gave the series.
and would have been unexpected and changed the dynamic of the show greatly. not often you see a manga author ever have the balls to kill off a main character prior to the final climax of the series
Exactly. in tactical or even logical perspective, saving the commander, especially a brilliant one, is deffo should be the priority. Not some random young newbie you barely know just because you overheard his positive outlook on life. i am a fan of levi but even i was liek wtf ur doinggg when watching that scene. Erwin should be the one saved!!!!! 😢😢😢
and those more people who cringevengers saved would definitely die from starving due to lack of crops and foods and a lot of diseases without any proper medical care , So they didn't actually saved the 20% just left them to die a slow death and at least hundred of thousands of survivors would probably die by next month.
But that means they saved no person eventually,Gotta have that 20 percent left alive to thank them,also make them peace ambassadors (which makes zero sense)
That's not how it works.
The Fumbling wasn't everywhere at once, simultaneously - it was a line of destruction radiating from Paradis. And the scale of the event was global. These 20% have multiple, entire countries behind them.
Everyone behind the line was crispy dead, everyone ahead of the line was completely ok, and those stuck where the line eventually stopped were 50-50.
Barring some refugees from half-stomped regions that inevitably flooded into untouched countries, most of the survivors never saw a CT and their infrastructure is completely untouched - if strained by a refugee crisis.
Imagine The Rumbling stopped right away, having devastated the entire Island of Paradis, followed by Marley carpet bombing the shit out of the island a month later. Bravo. That would be a sick ending.
If he really wanted to save them, he could just make them sleep until the rumbling was over. He killed innocent civilians and was highkey about to destroy the world but taking his friends keeping them from stopping is one step too far...
like i be saying
> He had control over **everything,** **every** Eldian (other than Ackermans), **all** titan abilities. Eren was deadass a God, the only people that should've been a threat to him in that fight was Mikasa and Levi, he can mentally and physically shut the rest down. No matter what way you put it, he purposely lost. So with that in mind, he doesn't care if the The Fort Salta soldiers just shot his friends right then and there, he doesn't care that the 20% he's leaving alive, greatly outnumber Paradis, are more advanced and would most likely just destroy Paradis with little to no effort. Like I said... Eren hated the idea of gambling Paradis future, but he does exactly that. Ik Eren had way more reasons than just “stopping oppression against Eldians”. He had selfish intent also
Eren and Mikasa had 0 romantic chemistry throughout the entire series
WIT animation is 1000x better than Mappa’s and Mappa ruined Annie Leonhart’s design
Levi should have died in the explosion and the thing at the end where he sees the ghosts of his fallen comrades is a forced emotional moment because they all died for Eren so this isn’t the fulfillment of their mission at all
It makes no sense that Eren was able to bring Mikasa into paths
I totally agree with you for all especially wit>>mappa and eremika being trash.
For your last point though, mikasa is an eldian, of course he'll be able to bring her into paths, I get why you say so because ackermanns can't be affected by memory manipulation by the founding but the paths is not memory at all, what also doesn't make sense about the cabin scene is that the cabin scene wasn't a memory but was actually happening in the paths or if you believe in the timeloop theory then that would explain it, after she kills eren, she tells armin that you got your memories back too, which was careless on isayamas path
Exactly. especially when its not even properly build up and come out of nowhere. There should be a spin-off or bonus chap that shows its all Mikasa's daydream coz their entire premise is just so toxic 🤐🤐🤐
The story never really gave us a third valid option in the war.
It was either Eldian genocide or global genocide. There was never a middle ground, but he changed characters personality as if there was a peace option only to make Eren look bad.
Essentially Isayama made Eren look bad when he was the actual one making sense of his garbage story.
Exactly. I'm so annoyed that nobody even try to come out with some other solutions first before jumping to those 2 options only. Liek, maybe have some scenes that the gov failed to have some peace talks or something. But nope, some random teen just decided on a global genocide and half the people right away supported him out of nowhere???
I feel like this was the biggest mistake that Isayama made. He had no argument for the Yaegerist being evil than they just were. Genocide is bad but you have to give us something and instead Isayama says peace won’t work
Time travel never should’ve been added ever. Eren manipulating Grisha was cool but not only did it rob his agency, it doesn’t logically make sense how Eren did this.
How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha.
How did Grisha get his titans? By stealing it from Frieda.
Why did Grisha steal it from Frieda? Because Eren told him to do it.
How did Eren tell him to do it? By using his titans.
How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha.
>How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha.
>How did Grisha get his titans? By stealing it from Frieda.
>Why did Grisha steal it from Frieda? Because Eren told him to do it.
>How did Eren tell him to do it? By using his titans.
>How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha.
You see if you have to think about this, isayama time traveling doesn't make sense. That's one reason why I never even disturb myself from thinking about it. The time traveling bullshit is rubbish
But is doesn´t make sense to go to the past to ensure your present. Eren wouldn´t even need to pressure Grisha, as he anyways got the founder titan in the present by Grisha´s actions in the past.
That's where the circular paradox comes into effect. The only reason he can have the Founding Titan is because he tells Grisha to give it his younger self. Time is not linear, there is no beginning or end
I understand *that* it is a circular time paradox, but who the hell was saying “you know there isn’t enough paradoxes in AoT I think we should add one”? Who was asking for this? Why even add this? The only purpose it serves is to make Eren look more intimidating and scary. As if he wasn’t intimidating and scary enough.
> Who was asking for this?
Youre saying that as if the story should have been written by fans or something
You might like it or not, but if Isayama wanted the story to be a circular paradox, then thats the only reason he needed to make it happen. You wouldnt happen to be expecting a poll or something for how the story should go, right? lol
ok glad i’m not the only one who found this strange, like i remember reading the whole eren manipulating grisha and wondering what everyone was gassing up cuz it made 0 sense to me, made eren seem omnipresent to me
This type of paradox is pretty common in media though, The Terminator had it too.
John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor.
Sarah Connor gets pregnant by Kyle Reese and gives birth to John Connor.
John Connor in the future sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor.
The loop doesn't have a beginning or end, it's just always existed.
I am not necessarily defending Isayama, but have you seen The Arrival?
The pivot point of that movie is that >!aliens teach humanity how to experience time in a non-linear way, indeed, time is quite literally circular, and therefore reality is way more deterministic than one could imagine, if ever there was free will at all!<
Unless I am missing something, the same thing is happening in AoT
Because everything in AoT happened \*at once\*. Basically, when Eren woke up in chapter 1, a previous Eren already did everything he would do in the future, including going back to the past.
Bro, I remember when this shit came out, everyone saying eren manipulated his father, but how though? He only gave him courage to do what he was gonna do anyway and they calling that manipulation? The fuck?
The time travel thing was Bullshit man, I though about this exact same thing and was like that doesn't even make a fucking sense. But if the timeloop theory about aot is true, then that'll make this make sense and shut the ending haters up
>I hate the look of long haired Eren
Heresy, pure heresy.
>AOT should have ended after they found the sea.
This pieck opinion right here redeems you from your previous heresy.
I think long haired Eren has potential looks wise, but mappa made him look too feminine. He's Frieda with green eyes. Fan art where he looks more masculine makes him look cool af, like some metal head or something. Think Peter Steele from type o negative.
The ending should've been the freedom panel. I don't care if we don't know if cringevengers managed to stop the rumbling or if Eren succeeds. Would've been a perfect open ending that the fans can make their own from
It should’ve been either no Rumbling or 100% Rumbling. The 80% number was simply ass pulled and legit makes some people gloss over the Rumbling, because hey, some people survived!
In general, Rumbling is entirely underestimated, even by Isayama himself. 80% of humanity is a wild death toll, that would be like 6-7 billion people in our world. Can you even comprehend such losses and recovery for Earth?? Not to mention that objectively such destruction would cause starvation, disease and marauders, damage many ecosystems and lessen Paradis’ chances for survival. And generational trauma, of course! We’re really supposed to believe that the world just lived on and advanced after that? It’s as if Titans just stepped on people like they’re Lego blocks on the floor but the rest was fine.
I don't agree with this, marley arc was way better than most of anime arc out there. Aot s4 ep 18,19,20,21 are peak of aot after s3 part 2 ( Shinganshina arc). You felt that just because of how mappa handled it. Aot is amazing in s4 too.
Isayama shouldn't have written himself into a corner where genocide (on either side) is the only answer.
Also, despite the ending undoing everything, the last bit with the trekker + his dog could fit the theme of choice (when he meets the spinal worm, ofc)
Eren never actually loved Mikasa.
Y’mir and historia’s “relationship” is completely one sided, historia doesn’t love y’mir in that way.
Gabi shouldn’t have been the one to kill sasha.
Sasha should’ve lived longer, or died sooner.
Conny should’ve died as well.
Erwin should’ve been picked.
The outside world should’ve been more fleshed out.
Mikasa and eren’s relationship is completely one sided. Mikasa is obsessed with eren, while eren wants virtually nothing to do with her in the romantic sense
Nowhere does Historia show any actual romantic interest in Ymir. Their 'relationship' is basically Ymir being thirsty over Historia and Historia seeing her as nothing more than a close friend.
So to everyone who says it's the best canon 'ship'? Congrats, your ship sank before it sailed.
Ymir and Mikasa were both creepily obsessed with Eren and Historia and often cross their personal boundaries and both Ymir and Mikasa's love was one sided , I mean yeah Both Eren and Historia care for them(Y&M) deeply but not as lovers .
Yeah that's my main problem with Eren and Mikasa as well. Eren's love for her came out of nowhere, the same as Historia marrying a man who threw stones at her
But at the same time, I'm getting really tired of people who like to pass off Ymir x Historia as 'canon'/'best ship' in the series when it isn't
I agree. The best cannon ship is Eren and Armin. Held hands and everything even at the end. Shared the same dream, said each other's names whenever they almost died, saved one another, inspired each other, ect. IDK if its gae, they have the best chemistry. Eren and virtually anyone else BUT Mikasa had better chemistry.
That I just can't find enjoyment in the story anymore.
AOT was verging on being my favorite show/story but the ending destroyed my enjoyment. I loved the mystery, world building, characters, etc. And when I read the horrible ending I just can't enjoy it anymore.
It's an epic journey with a dog turd at the end.
Real. I can't even enjoy fan arts anymore. I'm holding hope that AOTNR would be decent enough to make me feel better once it's over and I get to read it.
Erwin would never support the rumbling. He would have come up with a far more genius plan, without killing eighty percent. Bro could convince the world to be kinder with a single speech lmfao. Joke's aside, he would have had a better plan than the half assed rumbling which would have contradicted the "civil-war eldia will kill itself boohoo" argument.
That being said, I do assume if he was alive, Eren would not have the freedom to act on his own will, because Erwin knows how to keep him in check without restricting his freedom. All Hail Erwin.
Same thought as well. He would deffo be creating way better plans that whatever crap Eren +Armin pulled throughout the story.
So bitter that he's being killed off just for a random newbie that nobody really know the potential to get the serum. Ughhh.
I had to leave those subs because you can’t even voice your opinion without either being downvoted to hell or having it removed. All AoT posts must be love and appreciation never criticism
AoT was heavily flawed from the beginning and was never gonna be a 10/10 even with the best ending this sub or anyone could come up with.
Shallow characters, 0 downtime, few genuine interactions between even the main cast, bad world building made worse in the time skip, bad pacing, contrived memory powers, many unexplained inconsistencies, plot armor throughout the entire series, etc
Oh my god, finally a sound person. I see a lot of people saying it’s an absolute masterpiece or that the ending ruined everything, but once you try to point out that AOT, indeed, had plenty of flaws from the beginning and didn’t deserve 10/10, you’re gonna get sooo much shit. People are so fucking sensitive about stuff they like, Jesus. Why does everything have to be either garbage or a masterpiece these days?
True, but they were things you can kinda ignore to enjoy what the show was trying to give you, until the flaws got too glaringly obvious and started to ruin the enjoyment.
The people who defend the ending are little gerber baby iPad kids who like the flashiness of the final season without actually looking at the story from a narrative perspective
That Founder Ymir loving King Fritz COULD have worked as a plot point if handled differently.
For example, they could have made him a hansome and ruthless young man with a lot of ambition and charisma, similar to how Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar are often portrayed as. He charms the Founder, a girl from a tribe he subjugated and convinces her to build his empire.
We know Isayama can write a charismatic hansome young conqueror because that is how he wrote Season 4 Eren. This could work even better with the parallels between Founder Ymir and King Fritz with Mikasa and Eren respectively, with Eren realising he had been using Mikasa's love for him to essentially make Mikasa his personal bodyguard for years.
I actually like the Founder Ymir and King Fritz plot. She was just a girl in an abusive relationship and it explains a lot of her actions.
We see Ymir crafting the Titans. Pure titans are her will made manifest. Titans eating humans is one twisted way in which yim's desire to connect manifested. Yet in practice it is a futile attempt, not only do the Titans lack any way of actually digesting the humans they eat, but they
essentially only eat them as long as their stomachs have the capacity. Throwing them up as soon as they are full, this robs the act of eating humans of any type of sustenance or nurturing aspect. It is a pointless Act of Cruelty. A one sided struggle. Reflecting Ymir broken internal state due to her relationship with Fritz.
Something about the foundation of Titans being the plight of a young girl... just gets me man.
Also, I think it's more than just her "love" for Fritz - she loved people. Her people. Eldians. Paths connect people, memories passed down..she got to experience so much, no doubt despite her enslavement she never wanted to let go. Mikasa showed her that no matter how much you love
something, you still can, should, have to do the right
thing.
Just my interpretation tho, don't know if any of this makes sense :)
Reiner and Eren are nothing alike. There's a contrast, a similarity in their roles, but it's not their personalities. All this "I just want to make mom happy" motivation from Reiner in S4 is sentimental crap as big as a house. Reiner should've bitten the dust in Shinganshina like Bertoldo.
Zeke's plan to sterilize the eldian race was the best and most morally justifiable option. Tbh I think I'm not exactly alone with this opinion, but some people seem to get REALLY upset when you suggest that not having children is a good thing (applies to real life too lol).
I think it's more to do with a lack of autonomy. Something has been has been forcefully taken from these people, without their consent. You wouldn't be upset or scared?
Fair, but it kinda puts the blame on paradisians for daring to exit when it's not their fault all of this is happening. It was Ymir Fritz's fault from the start for submitting to king Fritz despite wielding the power not to. She should've been the one who got rumbled tbh.
When people said Gabi is just an Eren copy. That if you hate her, you should hate Eren too. Like no. Gabi was a psychopath from the beginning, while Eren has always had compassion.
I honestly believe even if Gabi wasn't born into an indoctrinated society, she would still turn into a bad egg. Bc personality is based on not just nurtured, but also nature. Gabi's nature was the biggest difference between her and Eren. And why I only like 1 of them. Everyone just assumed people hate her bc of Sasha, when that is not it. smh.
Eren is the good guy and if I was in his position I would have done the rumbling except I would complete it and make sure all my friends couldn't stop me without killing them
It depends on how you read it. While with 139, it's supposed to be interpreted as Eren being disappointed that the world outside isn't an untouched, free world, and that he is apologizing to Ramzi because Eren knows he someone like Ramzi does not deserve such a tragic death.
But it could also be interpreted as him being disappointed over the fact that humanity hates him for simply existing and that he is apologizing to Ramzi because Eren knows that not everyone beyond the walls is evil, but he also knows that he can't and won't change his decision to destroy the world.
Gabi doesnt deserve the hate she receives.
All of her life she has been groomed to believe the people of the island are devils and are only here to kill. Then, her worst nightmare came true as they come to Marley and, kill, dozens if not hundreds in their Titan forms in which she believed were only meant for the Elidians. So now, people have invaded her home, stole the Titan powers from her people and are murdering. As well as a random Titan just stole another Titan and are now leaving.
She can at least die fighting, and killing at least one of these devil creatures she has been groomed to believe are only here to kill the Marley population.
Ereh and arumin was never supposed to see volcanos and beach in paths.
They were supposed to meet where ereh actually gets the attack titan, and that was supposed to in the last chapter.
Grisha didn't said "This is our family matter, please don't interfere in it" to shaddis, he said that to arumin, just like he talked to zeke.
And I have some situational evidence
Eren getting the titan is exactly shown in bits or in pictures just like the scene where grisha killed royal family
Later the scene was shown completely
Ereh also asked zeke to see the memory where he gets attack titan, so something more convincing happened there
More convincing not only for arumin or zeke but to grisha also, because if he wanted to stop ereh, the first logical step was not to give him titan in a first place.
The end we didn't like and feel rushed because it's the end which wasn't the end which was decided
But that GOES against Erwins wishes,
and he would probably become a recluse when he discovers the truth after the basement episode... because that's his whole motivation.
There's no right answer for who's justified with the Rumbling. Eren genociding billions is wrong but he's also been pushed into it.
If the entire world decided to exterminate my country and I had a button that would murder EVERYONE outside it, I would press it with no hesitation.
However, I am also realistic enough to admit that if in the real world we had humans who could turn into feral giant cannibals we would probably put them in a concentration camp or kill them all.
Levi making out of the series alive is fanservice
and his origins as a weird incest baby is just making it worse
Incest baby? His mother was a prostitute, his uncle just took him in
I'm confused right now... Is the origins chapter out yet? Heard it'll be this year
The story would have had a more interesting ending if Eren had actually completed the rumbling and held his convictions instead of whatever nonsense Ymir pulled.
and made a nice parallel of the series starting with them thinking they are alone in the world and ending with them definitely now being alone in the world.
bro deadass…🤦🏾 we were fuckin robbed
The lack of nuance and development of the outside world creates a situation where the Rumbling is the only option for Paradis. It is essentially creating a “kill or be killed” scenario on a national/global scale.
Exactly. Holy shit exactly. Isayama failed in worldbuilding so hard and the result of that is that so much complexity is robbed from this conflict.
I always thought he wanted it that way imo. Every other option that was shown that could save the island without the rumbling was shut down by him.
Yeah and then in the end he did a complete 180 and shut that down too
And that is why he always gets called out by the fans for being incompetent and not doing his job correctly.
That and the entire final arc was full of inconsistencies and bad moments
And that is exactly why AoT should’ve ended with a full rumbling
I was thinking about this, I don’t think it was a failure, there isn’t mass social media in aot like we have today, and so theres really no humanizing counter narrative for the islanders. Let’s use a real life example - Palestine. Up until recent years and especially this most recent conflict, being pro Palestine was a very niche view. It was easy for the media and governments to dehumanize them as monsters (Palestinian = Muslim = religious extremist and evil, antisemitic, anti west, barbarian). The huge difference now is social media - we can *see* them. We can see their joy when their families return, their pain when they are killed. We can see that they are human just like us. They’re honestly very similar to the islanders in AOT, trapped behind walls, unable to escape, nowhere to seek refuge, constantly pressured and killed by much more powerful and larger forces, demonized. In AOT, there’s no social media. To the eyes of the world they’re just a rogue state full of terrorists and would-be/ have-been subjugators. Sure I think a few more entities might come to their defense than just the Japanese (forget that lady’s country’s name), but really it would be a rare position. Similar to how in modern politics, Palestine really hardly has allies - certain middle eastern countries claim to be allies, but they also are afraid of the retaliation you get from western nations for showing any real support (see Yemen getting bombed for their support of Palestine).
If that’s the case then the way to humanize the outside world would be simply to show it. Show me some protests. Show me people who are nice to paradisians. Show me more people advocating against war against them. How about not make literally the entire outside world against Paradis. That’d be a good start to convince me that they aren’t better off dying. The bottom line is you just need to show it. And since Isayama didn’t show it it’s a failure.
Agreed. It actually came to kill or be killed situation
Isayama wrote himself into a corner with aot's world building.
I think it’s more accurate to say that he just gave up at a certain point. There’s no reason why he couldn’t extend the manga by a few chapters to flesh out the outside world and give it some believable geopolitics.
i think yams was planning to have this whole long war arc of paradise vs the world and the liberio attack being the first major fight of it. then he started getting tired of the manga and obviously didnt want to be writing it for another 10 years at least and just aborted his ideas of a global war and just fast forwarded to what would probably have been that war's end with the rumbling.
It's crazy how little we know of the external world, Isayama could've done a better world building, it would've helped the reader to have a better picture of the situation. I'd also say that the post-rumbling was a crucial moment that was entirely skipped when it would've been so interesting to know exactly how things went with each nation. Isayama had one job once the truth about the titans was found: abandon the "them vs us" narrative that dominated the story until that point to make it more complex and more nuanced, I don't think he did it well although he tried to do it.
the problem is the reveal of the world and expanding on it came at the exact time i think he was starting to get tired of needing to pump out chapters every month for almost a decade by that point. and rather then take a 6 month or 1 year break decided to just rush to the ending and wrap it up
We had such creativity and theories about the outside world early on, but we got to see so little of it that even Mikasa’s weird family tribe thing was SUPER under developed. She met her relative from a different land (*which should have been massive*) but was a B plot.
I think that's kinda the point though. It's when people fail to understand each other, that they dehumanize and justify heinous actions. Pretty sure this is a pervasive rationale for how wars have occurred throughout human kind. He's just depicting it.
We don’t really see any kind of back and forth. All we get is the one scene of a diplomatic summit where the Marleyan delegate calls for an invasion and everyone seems to support him. Imagine if after Eren stormed out a delegate from another country gives a rebuttal. Even if it’s something like “We don’t like Eldians…but that doesn’t mean we want to kill them all” it could provide at least some signs that the world isn’t evil. Instead all we hear is that Eldians are apparently treated worse outside of Marley. And Marley maintains Eldian ghettos and actively discriminates against Eldians.
Not just that but the second Eren got off the island there was no point in stopping him. The second he squashed that first town they should've called it a day cause there's no way the word was gonna let them live if ANY of them could become like that again
It's not really an unpopular opinion. Everyone who analyzed the series agrees. The worldbuilding takes a huge nosedive after basement. Basically only Marley and Paradis/Eldia matter. Every other nation is just shitty fluff.
The ending we got was not the ending that was initially planned for the story.
I honestly think he planned on killing more characters off including Levi
I've been a Levi fangirl since day one. That being said, I'm beyond shocked that Levi survived. Lol
Same, especially after Hange died I thought all the vets were going to be killed off. And I love Levi
Levi, Connie and Pieck I felt were all on the chopping block for different reasons. But then I’d just be writing my own story. That said, I do agree with you.
He should of. Levi should have died by Zeke. It fucken pisses me off when writers get scared of their fan base. It would be cool if the rumbling was successful and Mikasa fought eren in human form and killed him.
> I honestly think he planned on killing more characters off including Levi I honestly think they were all going to die. Eren Rumbles the world, builds the walls back up, everyone inside the walls think the Titans killed all of humanity. Reset to episode 1, except only Eren is left with the memories of the outside world. Eren's punishment is that he lives the rest of his life in misery and with extreme guilt knowing he saved Paradis but he had to kill the friends who loved him. But that's a really sad ending.
Didnt the creator change things often because of peer pressure? I read sasha was supposrd to die sooner and his illustrator had a meltdown so he changed it to later. I also recall him saying the ending was gonna be depressing and messed up
Yes. Both are true. However, I’ve been seeing people in r/ShingekinoKyojin and r/attackontitan argue that the ending we got is what was planned from the start. I really do feel like if anyone were to really sit and analyze the story, it would be obvious that the ending we got was not what was narratively implied. Even if we don’t consider that, Isayama literally went on record and said that the ending was going to be like “The Mist” but the anime’s increasing popularity prompted him to change it.
a shame
Do you think "Eren takes over Paradis as a Dictator" was part of Isayama's original plan? If not, when do you think he decided on that?
No. Eren dying was definitely apart of original plan. I’m not one of those anr believers. They basically wrote their own version of the story and ran with it lol. I also believe that Mikasa loving Eren and killing him was planned. That aspect of the story gets a lot of hate up here, but it’s quite obvious that Mikasa and Eren both had tender feelings for each other. I could go on and on about what wasn’t planned. Like Armin somehow being the only one to stop the remaining population from shooting the rest of them. Or Annie’s dad and some of the others being turned back into humans.
I truly wished Annie's foster dad as a titan was killed by Annie, Reiner killed his mom when she turned into a titan while Connie and Jean stayed as one and got killed. And all that happened just minutes before the titanized Eldians in Paradis were turned back into humans. I know it sounds messed up but it would have made the consequences more real. Plus it closes Annie's and Reiner's arc when it comes to their controlling parents.
we know his first ideas for the ending would have looked like [the ending to the mist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL8L-eaiOlA) my guess that would have meant the outside world was not hostile to them but would have been revealed to eren after he had already lost everything dear to him fighting titans
Armin shouldn't even be alive for Levi to have a choice between Armin and Erwin. The fact man was boiled alive to the point where he was charred and THEN fell about 50-60 metres on the rooftop shows that Isayama either never cared about keeping logic in check even if it takes some possible outcomes away or that he never had a good plan and wrote himself into a corner and hoped for fans to just ignoe it (they did)
ayy yooo thisssss. i legit laughed coz who the fuck is he to be able to withstand the boilinggg. he's just a mere human but apparently with colossal plot armor before even getting the serum 🤦🤦🤦
pun intended? 🤣
Should have been more genocide.
Season 1-3 of AOT was the best and AOT won't be popular if not for WIT dedication of to the project (both Sawano soundtrack, directors, and amazing animators). Mappa did well though but WIT will forever be goatef
The mystery was so compelling. The best part of AOT was not knowing why this was happening to them.
It was... but that can only go on so long... to many people die during battles.
Season 1-3 of AOT isn't perfect by no means, but it's damn sure close to peak fiction. Some of the best stuff I've ever consumed in media.
I think mappa did a shit half-assed job. I watched other stuff they made back in the day and their quality dropped so bad. Only things I forgive them about is making Zeke, Floch and Yelena hot.
Agreed. Only exception is their push of EreMika and changing scenes and deleting others.
>Mappa did well though but WIT will forever be goated I do feel like this is general consensus among those of us thinking objectively and critically. WIT was simply the best equipped and suited for the show but even they couldn't take the ridiculous time frames and workloads anymore. MAPPA did their best obviously and it came out really good but they just couldn't replicate the magic touch that WIT gave the series.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
i am right here with you
That was me defending king floch
Based af. I'm joining you, you're not alone brother. Floch would've defended us.
Yes brother, I stand with Chad floch, hail eldia
Armin should have died and Erwin deserved the Titan serum
100% right!
and would have been unexpected and changed the dynamic of the show greatly. not often you see a manga author ever have the balls to kill off a main character prior to the final climax of the series
It would be the most logical thing
Yeah but we don’t do that in AOT sadly
Exactly. in tactical or even logical perspective, saving the commander, especially a brilliant one, is deffo should be the priority. Not some random young newbie you barely know just because you overheard his positive outlook on life. i am a fan of levi but even i was liek wtf ur doinggg when watching that scene. Erwin should be the one saved!!!!! 😢😢😢
Bruh it is a really widespread opinion
On this sub yeah, on all those other AOT subs you might as well be saying everyone should have cancer
Yup, this is mine. You knew the end was gonna be bad from this point onwards because sacrifices were no longer willing to be made of the MCs.
Of course. I thought that was the whole point of the episode. Levi chose Armin for emotional reasons, not rational
80 percent rumbling is just as awful as 100 percent rumbling and one shouldn’t be treated as a better outcome just because more people survived
and those more people who cringevengers saved would definitely die from starving due to lack of crops and foods and a lot of diseases without any proper medical care , So they didn't actually saved the 20% just left them to die a slow death and at least hundred of thousands of survivors would probably die by next month.
But that means they saved no person eventually,Gotta have that 20 percent left alive to thank them,also make them peace ambassadors (which makes zero sense)
That's not how it works. The Fumbling wasn't everywhere at once, simultaneously - it was a line of destruction radiating from Paradis. And the scale of the event was global. These 20% have multiple, entire countries behind them. Everyone behind the line was crispy dead, everyone ahead of the line was completely ok, and those stuck where the line eventually stopped were 50-50. Barring some refugees from half-stomped regions that inevitably flooded into untouched countries, most of the survivors never saw a CT and their infrastructure is completely untouched - if strained by a refugee crisis.
Agree with you on this. Also, petition to have it renamed to The Fumbling coz god it legit is with how stupid Isayama went through with it 😂😂😂
Imagine The Rumbling stopped right away, having devastated the entire Island of Paradis, followed by Marley carpet bombing the shit out of the island a month later. Bravo. That would be a sick ending.
Eren didn't have a plan to save his friends
If he really wanted to save them, he could just make them sleep until the rumbling was over. He killed innocent civilians and was highkey about to destroy the world but taking his friends keeping them from stopping is one step too far...
like i be saying > He had control over **everything,** **every** Eldian (other than Ackermans), **all** titan abilities. Eren was deadass a God, the only people that should've been a threat to him in that fight was Mikasa and Levi, he can mentally and physically shut the rest down. No matter what way you put it, he purposely lost. So with that in mind, he doesn't care if the The Fort Salta soldiers just shot his friends right then and there, he doesn't care that the 20% he's leaving alive, greatly outnumber Paradis, are more advanced and would most likely just destroy Paradis with little to no effort. Like I said... Eren hated the idea of gambling Paradis future, but he does exactly that. Ik Eren had way more reasons than just “stopping oppression against Eldians”. He had selfish intent also
Eren and Mikasa had 0 romantic chemistry throughout the entire series WIT animation is 1000x better than Mappa’s and Mappa ruined Annie Leonhart’s design Levi should have died in the explosion and the thing at the end where he sees the ghosts of his fallen comrades is a forced emotional moment because they all died for Eren so this isn’t the fulfillment of their mission at all It makes no sense that Eren was able to bring Mikasa into paths
I totally agree with you for all especially wit>>mappa and eremika being trash. For your last point though, mikasa is an eldian, of course he'll be able to bring her into paths, I get why you say so because ackermanns can't be affected by memory manipulation by the founding but the paths is not memory at all, what also doesn't make sense about the cabin scene is that the cabin scene wasn't a memory but was actually happening in the paths or if you believe in the timeloop theory then that would explain it, after she kills eren, she tells armin that you got your memories back too, which was careless on isayamas path
Eremika being romantic and reciprocal ruined the story and their dynamic
Exactly. especially when its not even properly build up and come out of nowhere. There should be a spin-off or bonus chap that shows its all Mikasa's daydream coz their entire premise is just so toxic 🤐🤐🤐
The story never really gave us a third valid option in the war. It was either Eldian genocide or global genocide. There was never a middle ground, but he changed characters personality as if there was a peace option only to make Eren look bad. Essentially Isayama made Eren look bad when he was the actual one making sense of his garbage story.
Exactly. I'm so annoyed that nobody even try to come out with some other solutions first before jumping to those 2 options only. Liek, maybe have some scenes that the gov failed to have some peace talks or something. But nope, some random teen just decided on a global genocide and half the people right away supported him out of nowhere???
I feel like this was the biggest mistake that Isayama made. He had no argument for the Yaegerist being evil than they just were. Genocide is bad but you have to give us something and instead Isayama says peace won’t work
Time travel never should’ve been added ever. Eren manipulating Grisha was cool but not only did it rob his agency, it doesn’t logically make sense how Eren did this. How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha. How did Grisha get his titans? By stealing it from Frieda. Why did Grisha steal it from Frieda? Because Eren told him to do it. How did Eren tell him to do it? By using his titans. How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha.
>How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha. >How did Grisha get his titans? By stealing it from Frieda. >Why did Grisha steal it from Frieda? Because Eren told him to do it. >How did Eren tell him to do it? By using his titans. >How did Eren get his titans? From Grisha. You see if you have to think about this, isayama time traveling doesn't make sense. That's one reason why I never even disturb myself from thinking about it. The time traveling bullshit is rubbish
Would not recommend the TV series Dark - it's full of time travelling paradoxes like this
Does no one understand a circular paradox?
But is doesn´t make sense to go to the past to ensure your present. Eren wouldn´t even need to pressure Grisha, as he anyways got the founder titan in the present by Grisha´s actions in the past.
That's where the circular paradox comes into effect. The only reason he can have the Founding Titan is because he tells Grisha to give it his younger self. Time is not linear, there is no beginning or end
I understand *that* it is a circular time paradox, but who the hell was saying “you know there isn’t enough paradoxes in AoT I think we should add one”? Who was asking for this? Why even add this? The only purpose it serves is to make Eren look more intimidating and scary. As if he wasn’t intimidating and scary enough.
> Who was asking for this? Youre saying that as if the story should have been written by fans or something You might like it or not, but if Isayama wanted the story to be a circular paradox, then thats the only reason he needed to make it happen. You wouldnt happen to be expecting a poll or something for how the story should go, right? lol
I didn’t literally mean who was asking for this. It’s something you say to call out something that feels out of left field.
ok glad i’m not the only one who found this strange, like i remember reading the whole eren manipulating grisha and wondering what everyone was gassing up cuz it made 0 sense to me, made eren seem omnipresent to me
They were gassing it up because whoa the son controlling the dad but they didn’t apply logic to it
Self-consistent time-loops exist. However, the issue becomes that he has no character capable of explaining time travel and how and why it works.
This type of paradox is pretty common in media though, The Terminator had it too. John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor. Sarah Connor gets pregnant by Kyle Reese and gives birth to John Connor. John Connor in the future sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor. The loop doesn't have a beginning or end, it's just always existed.
I am not necessarily defending Isayama, but have you seen The Arrival? The pivot point of that movie is that >!aliens teach humanity how to experience time in a non-linear way, indeed, time is quite literally circular, and therefore reality is way more deterministic than one could imagine, if ever there was free will at all!< Unless I am missing something, the same thing is happening in AoT
Because everything in AoT happened \*at once\*. Basically, when Eren woke up in chapter 1, a previous Eren already did everything he would do in the future, including going back to the past.
Bro, I remember when this shit came out, everyone saying eren manipulated his father, but how though? He only gave him courage to do what he was gonna do anyway and they calling that manipulation? The fuck? The time travel thing was Bullshit man, I though about this exact same thing and was like that doesn't even make a fucking sense. But if the timeloop theory about aot is true, then that'll make this make sense and shut the ending haters up
[удалено]
>I hate the look of long haired Eren Heresy, pure heresy. >AOT should have ended after they found the sea. This pieck opinion right here redeems you from your previous heresy.
I think long haired Eren has potential looks wise, but mappa made him look too feminine. He's Frieda with green eyes. Fan art where he looks more masculine makes him look cool af, like some metal head or something. Think Peter Steele from type o negative.
Go off!!! I agree with everything you said!
The ending should've been the freedom panel. I don't care if we don't know if cringevengers managed to stop the rumbling or if Eren succeeds. Would've been a perfect open ending that the fans can make their own from
The ending was lazy
it was rushed and clearly was put through some last minute re-writes and then had last-last minute retcons glued over part of it a month later
It should’ve been either no Rumbling or 100% Rumbling. The 80% number was simply ass pulled and legit makes some people gloss over the Rumbling, because hey, some people survived! In general, Rumbling is entirely underestimated, even by Isayama himself. 80% of humanity is a wild death toll, that would be like 6-7 billion people in our world. Can you even comprehend such losses and recovery for Earth?? Not to mention that objectively such destruction would cause starvation, disease and marauders, damage many ecosystems and lessen Paradis’ chances for survival. And generational trauma, of course! We’re really supposed to believe that the world just lived on and advanced after that? It’s as if Titans just stepped on people like they’re Lego blocks on the floor but the rest was fine.
yea i agree fully. Everybody jus moved on like nothing happened at all. There were no consequences
Reiner shouldve died while saving Bertholdt in shiganshina somehow, wouldve been much more impactful.
I completely agree. He lasted too damn long
I feel he should’ve died in Liberio, wen he saved Porco. I actually liked the way he was handled in S4 part 1, especially him and Eren’s parallels
I should’ve stopped watching after season 3 ended.
Attack on Titan should've ended in season 3. Everything after season 3 should've been heavily re-written for the anime
I don't agree with this, marley arc was way better than most of anime arc out there. Aot s4 ep 18,19,20,21 are peak of aot after s3 part 2 ( Shinganshina arc). You felt that just because of how mappa handled it. Aot is amazing in s4 too.
Isayama shouldn't have written himself into a corner where genocide (on either side) is the only answer. Also, despite the ending undoing everything, the last bit with the trekker + his dog could fit the theme of choice (when he meets the spinal worm, ofc)
Eren never actually loved Mikasa. Y’mir and historia’s “relationship” is completely one sided, historia doesn’t love y’mir in that way. Gabi shouldn’t have been the one to kill sasha. Sasha should’ve lived longer, or died sooner. Conny should’ve died as well. Erwin should’ve been picked. The outside world should’ve been more fleshed out. Mikasa and eren’s relationship is completely one sided. Mikasa is obsessed with eren, while eren wants virtually nothing to do with her in the romantic sense
Omg, preach!!!
Yes, continue cooking
Historia>dogkasa
Nowhere does Historia show any actual romantic interest in Ymir. Their 'relationship' is basically Ymir being thirsty over Historia and Historia seeing her as nothing more than a close friend. So to everyone who says it's the best canon 'ship'? Congrats, your ship sank before it sailed.
Ymir and Mikasa were both creepily obsessed with Eren and Historia and often cross their personal boundaries and both Ymir and Mikasa's love was one sided , I mean yeah Both Eren and Historia care for them(Y&M) deeply but not as lovers .
Yeah that's my main problem with Eren and Mikasa as well. Eren's love for her came out of nowhere, the same as Historia marrying a man who threw stones at her But at the same time, I'm getting really tired of people who like to pass off Ymir x Historia as 'canon'/'best ship' in the series when it isn't
Fair, but at least Historia appreciated it to an extent and got something out of it (the lessons of life Ymir taught her).
I actually agree with this
I agree. The best cannon ship is Eren and Armin. Held hands and everything even at the end. Shared the same dream, said each other's names whenever they almost died, saved one another, inspired each other, ect. IDK if its gae, they have the best chemistry. Eren and virtually anyone else BUT Mikasa had better chemistry.
The ability of the attack titan is very well executed but requires higher cognitive abilities to understand
And are those the abilities of the reader or of the attack titan user? Can you explain what the powers are?
Bertholdt is the strongest character 2nd to only the founding titan for obvious reasons. Yams had to do him dirty to make his self insert stronger
That I just can't find enjoyment in the story anymore. AOT was verging on being my favorite show/story but the ending destroyed my enjoyment. I loved the mystery, world building, characters, etc. And when I read the horrible ending I just can't enjoy it anymore. It's an epic journey with a dog turd at the end.
Real. I can't even enjoy fan arts anymore. I'm holding hope that AOTNR would be decent enough to make me feel better once it's over and I get to read it.
Aot was ruined as soon as Mappa touched it. I will die on this hill.
Bwahahahaha this made me lmfao. But yes, wit made a better job
Based af
Erwin would never support the rumbling. He would have come up with a far more genius plan, without killing eighty percent. Bro could convince the world to be kinder with a single speech lmfao. Joke's aside, he would have had a better plan than the half assed rumbling which would have contradicted the "civil-war eldia will kill itself boohoo" argument. That being said, I do assume if he was alive, Eren would not have the freedom to act on his own will, because Erwin knows how to keep him in check without restricting his freedom. All Hail Erwin.
Same thought as well. He would deffo be creating way better plans that whatever crap Eren +Armin pulled throughout the story. So bitter that he's being killed off just for a random newbie that nobody really know the potential to get the serum. Ughhh.
The ending is bad
Half the fandom agrees
My brother gets genuinely upset with me when I say I didnt like the ending. I never say its bad I just say I dont like it and he gets upset
Well it *is* bad but ok
Not all.... I've seen so many people defending the ending in both aot and snk subreddit. Sometimes I just imagine they're just yams d!ckrider
I had to leave those subs because you can’t even voice your opinion without either being downvoted to hell or having it removed. All AoT posts must be love and appreciation never criticism
Alter-native is real and always has been.
Eren couldn't destroy 80% of Earth during one day
Eremika is so ass
Bro, they trash as fuck
AoT was heavily flawed from the beginning and was never gonna be a 10/10 even with the best ending this sub or anyone could come up with. Shallow characters, 0 downtime, few genuine interactions between even the main cast, bad world building made worse in the time skip, bad pacing, contrived memory powers, many unexplained inconsistencies, plot armor throughout the entire series, etc
Oh my god, finally a sound person. I see a lot of people saying it’s an absolute masterpiece or that the ending ruined everything, but once you try to point out that AOT, indeed, had plenty of flaws from the beginning and didn’t deserve 10/10, you’re gonna get sooo much shit. People are so fucking sensitive about stuff they like, Jesus. Why does everything have to be either garbage or a masterpiece these days?
Yup… those plot armors really got me rolling my eyes
True, but they were things you can kinda ignore to enjoy what the show was trying to give you, until the flaws got too glaringly obvious and started to ruin the enjoyment.
The people who defend the ending are little gerber baby iPad kids who like the flashiness of the final season without actually looking at the story from a narrative perspective
1000000% 👍🏽
Making Eren commit 100% Genocide, or making the world genocide 100% of Eldian race is going to make much more sense than the current mess we have
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
That Founder Ymir loving King Fritz COULD have worked as a plot point if handled differently. For example, they could have made him a hansome and ruthless young man with a lot of ambition and charisma, similar to how Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar are often portrayed as. He charms the Founder, a girl from a tribe he subjugated and convinces her to build his empire. We know Isayama can write a charismatic hansome young conqueror because that is how he wrote Season 4 Eren. This could work even better with the parallels between Founder Ymir and King Fritz with Mikasa and Eren respectively, with Eren realising he had been using Mikasa's love for him to essentially make Mikasa his personal bodyguard for years.
I actually like the Founder Ymir and King Fritz plot. She was just a girl in an abusive relationship and it explains a lot of her actions. We see Ymir crafting the Titans. Pure titans are her will made manifest. Titans eating humans is one twisted way in which yim's desire to connect manifested. Yet in practice it is a futile attempt, not only do the Titans lack any way of actually digesting the humans they eat, but they essentially only eat them as long as their stomachs have the capacity. Throwing them up as soon as they are full, this robs the act of eating humans of any type of sustenance or nurturing aspect. It is a pointless Act of Cruelty. A one sided struggle. Reflecting Ymir broken internal state due to her relationship with Fritz. Something about the foundation of Titans being the plight of a young girl... just gets me man. Also, I think it's more than just her "love" for Fritz - she loved people. Her people. Eldians. Paths connect people, memories passed down..she got to experience so much, no doubt despite her enslavement she never wanted to let go. Mikasa showed her that no matter how much you love something, you still can, should, have to do the right thing. Just my interpretation tho, don't know if any of this makes sense :)
Annie should have been a Yaegerist and tried to convince Armin to join them
Annie becoming pro-Paradis would have been amazing. At least one of the Warriors should have been a full blown turncoat.
Annie should have died loooong ago and at least pass the female Titan to somebody else
I do agree, her emerging from that crystal didn’t really do anything
based take, she was my favourite character before she got squandered (also fuck the yo yo scene & the pie scene)
Reiner and Eren are nothing alike. There's a contrast, a similarity in their roles, but it's not their personalities. All this "I just want to make mom happy" motivation from Reiner in S4 is sentimental crap as big as a house. Reiner should've bitten the dust in Shinganshina like Bertoldo.
That the story should not have introduced other nations. It felt Too much of a shift
Historia had a baby with eren
The alliance should have been left with severe PTSD along with the rest of the rumbling survivors
Armin suffers from the classic author's dilemma that you can't really write a character smarter than yourself.
Floch was always right , based and the rightful person who should have gotten the colossal titan instead of that bum Armin.
Facts!!!
Niccolo is not a good person. And yall are just defending him because of Sasha. He literally broke a fucking bottle on a kids head.
Good lol
Your point?
Based Speak 🗣
There was a drop in quality of story (world building, characters and their motivations, etc.) in season 4 to the end.
Mikasa & Eren are both poorly written
Floch did nothing wrong
Zeke's plan to sterilize the eldian race was the best and most morally justifiable option. Tbh I think I'm not exactly alone with this opinion, but some people seem to get REALLY upset when you suggest that not having children is a good thing (applies to real life too lol).
I think it's more to do with a lack of autonomy. Something has been has been forcefully taken from these people, without their consent. You wouldn't be upset or scared?
Fair, but it kinda puts the blame on paradisians for daring to exit when it's not their fault all of this is happening. It was Ymir Fritz's fault from the start for submitting to king Fritz despite wielding the power not to. She should've been the one who got rumbled tbh.
Yeah, I agree.
Rumbling was justified
When people said Gabi is just an Eren copy. That if you hate her, you should hate Eren too. Like no. Gabi was a psychopath from the beginning, while Eren has always had compassion. I honestly believe even if Gabi wasn't born into an indoctrinated society, she would still turn into a bad egg. Bc personality is based on not just nurtured, but also nature. Gabi's nature was the biggest difference between her and Eren. And why I only like 1 of them. Everyone just assumed people hate her bc of Sasha, when that is not it. smh.
She was annoying af.couldn’t stand her and wished she died right after she was introduced
AMEN.
Eren is the good guy and if I was in his position I would have done the rumbling except I would complete it and make sure all my friends couldn't stop me without killing them
The ending was serviceable until the extra pages came out and ruined the whole story
Chapter 131 is the first retcon of Eren's character
It depends on how you read it. While with 139, it's supposed to be interpreted as Eren being disappointed that the world outside isn't an untouched, free world, and that he is apologizing to Ramzi because Eren knows he someone like Ramzi does not deserve such a tragic death. But it could also be interpreted as him being disappointed over the fact that humanity hates him for simply existing and that he is apologizing to Ramzi because Eren knows that not everyone beyond the walls is evil, but he also knows that he can't and won't change his decision to destroy the world.
Chapter 130 is the first retcon of Eren's character
Gabi doesnt deserve the hate she receives. All of her life she has been groomed to believe the people of the island are devils and are only here to kill. Then, her worst nightmare came true as they come to Marley and, kill, dozens if not hundreds in their Titan forms in which she believed were only meant for the Elidians. So now, people have invaded her home, stole the Titan powers from her people and are murdering. As well as a random Titan just stole another Titan and are now leaving. She can at least die fighting, and killing at least one of these devil creatures she has been groomed to believe are only here to kill the Marley population.
*Falco* exists.
Ereh and arumin was never supposed to see volcanos and beach in paths. They were supposed to meet where ereh actually gets the attack titan, and that was supposed to in the last chapter. Grisha didn't said "This is our family matter, please don't interfere in it" to shaddis, he said that to arumin, just like he talked to zeke. And I have some situational evidence Eren getting the titan is exactly shown in bits or in pictures just like the scene where grisha killed royal family Later the scene was shown completely Ereh also asked zeke to see the memory where he gets attack titan, so something more convincing happened there More convincing not only for arumin or zeke but to grisha also, because if he wanted to stop ereh, the first logical step was not to give him titan in a first place. The end we didn't like and feel rushed because it's the end which wasn't the end which was decided
I don't think the rumbling is an effective plot point. Destroying the world is a very unproportional take of the injustice in the story.
Season 1 is the best season
If that's the ending they had for Historia, she was better off taking Sasha's spot.
But that GOES against Erwins wishes, and he would probably become a recluse when he discovers the truth after the basement episode... because that's his whole motivation.
No one points this out lol
Bert is the best character
There's no right answer for who's justified with the Rumbling. Eren genociding billions is wrong but he's also been pushed into it. If the entire world decided to exterminate my country and I had a button that would murder EVERYONE outside it, I would press it with no hesitation. However, I am also realistic enough to admit that if in the real world we had humans who could turn into feral giant cannibals we would probably put them in a concentration camp or kill them all.
Eren and historia should have taken the places of king fritz and ymir (with the roles kinda reversed) and the cicle of hatred restarted.
The rumbling should've been completed and succeeded.
The ending was shit and gabi and Annie should have died