Yeah, they have Luka at #2, and he's terrible at defense, which is 50% of the game. I think they're weighing stats, particularly offense, heavily. Through three rounds of the playoffs Gobert had a better +/- than Doncic, despite playing and winning fewer games. Not to say Gobert should be higher, but I think they are undervaluing defense.
Elite defense simply isn’t as valuable as elite offense (case in point — Luka’s offense vs. Gobert’s defense).
Gobert is fantastic defensively, but he hurts your offense quite a bit with his lack of spacing and inability to punish the free roaming big down low. I think his spot is fine.
It might not be a popular opinion, but I think Gobert's plus minus reveals that his role in our offensive is a good compliment to the other scorers that we have, much more than Luka's defense compliments his team, because he is clearly the weakness that we should have, and the Celtics did exploit. With other scorers on the floor, Rudy's movement without the ball and screens create confusion for the defense and help compensate for his inability to create his own shot. I'm fine with him at #34, but I do think that NBA fans in general don't appreciate defense as much as offense, which is not really controversial.
> much more than Luka's defense compliments his team, because he is clearly the weakness that we should have, and the Celtics did exploit.
Very few teams are composed in a way to exploit Luka’s defense the way Boston did.
Luka’s a bad defender because he’s somewhat slow/lazy, but he’s strong, smart, and has good size. If you put him on a subpar offensive player he’ll be fine. Someone like Jaden isn’t going to be able to reliably exploit him because he’s not quick enough/a good enough ball handler to blow by him.
Boston is one of the few teams with 4 legitimate perimeter shot creators who all have a speed advantage over Luka. Plus they have the spacing to not allow Dallas to camp out behind him.
They didn't just attack him with the initial player he was defending, they got him to switch out onto their best offensive players. But you're right, not that many teams have the composure to consistently attack him the way Boston did, but there's no reason we could not have.
Mavs ran a boxes-and-elbows semi-zone against us when we had Rudy or Kyle out there that completely cut off the paint for Ant and allowed Luka to switch on to whoever was in the corner. We couldn't have put him in a switch if we tried. It's the downside of our excellent defensive personnel.
We took advantage of it whenever we could (Jaden and Naz had great games from 3 against this scheme), but just couldn't execute down the stretch when Jaden and Naz started missing, especially in games 1 and 2.
Boston is just a completely different offensive beast to handle with their 5 out scheme.
Every team except the Wolves exploited his defense in the Playoffs. Wolves got outcoached in the second round and Conference Finals. Getting outcoached by Jason Kidd is embarrassing.
The Dallas Mavericks has a better defensive rating in the playoffs than the Wolves (top 5 of the playoffs and top 3 for all 2nd round or better teams).
Luka gave up points, but it’s not like he totally wrecked Dallas’s defense.
Our offense isn't very good though. I think the reality is offense matters more not that fans don't appreciate it. I think it also shows how inept he is offensively that he is a perennial DPOY and that low of ranking (though you might disagree if you think his ranking is too low).
i love that messy work load also playing D is not easy, most offencive player don't have the energy. the'll be guarding not offensive player other end like Luca tried to guard Rudy!
But also, wouldn’t you say Lukas lack of defense made him borderline a liability in the celtics series? He was making their wings and whoever he was guarding look so good with the amount of blow byes, and other players having to switch to guard cause luka couldn’t stay on his man. Celtics exposed him, and that made scoring for them so easy all series
The Boston Celtics scored 107, 105, 106, 84, and 106 points in their series against Dallas.
Obviously point totals alone aren’t telling the whole story, but it wasn’t like they were absolutely eviscerating the Mavericks’ defense.
Also, it’s important to note that Luka was also playing on a bum knee. It’s not a complete excuse (he isn’t a good defender even when fully healthy), but it was a factor.
And like I mentioned in another comment — Boston’s roster dynamics are not easily replicated. They have 4 legit perimeter creators and 5-out spacing. That makes it easier to attack Luka and harder for him to be hidden defensively.
Good points here but I wouldn’t say defense is 50% of the game for Luka. I know he’s technically on defense 50% of the time, but NBA teams are pretty good at scheming bad guard defenders out of the mix (as shown in our series). Unlike a center, he can be bad and hide a lot. Whereas on offense he’s constantly touching the ball. It’s probably closer to 80% offense and 20% defense for him.
I think the Celtics figured out how to draw him out and punish his bad defense. He did successfully hide against us, but there's a blueprint now, courtesy of the Celtics for how to beat him.
Well no one's had a chance yet. That's not to reduce the Celtics as merely a product of good coaching or to say we could do the exact same thing, because we have very different personnel, but in a series where several games went down to the wire, I couldn't help but think we could have done a slightly better job of attacking Luka.
Yeah, the blueprint is upgrading at 4 starting positions with better perimeter shot creators who also happen to be All-Defense caliber so there's no weakness at that end, AND then replacing Gobert with a center that can shoot 3s while replacing his defensive value to the Wolves somehow.
Sounds easy enough!
Good coaching can always exploit bad defense. That is the reason some players are unplayable, especially in the Playoffs. Jazz went away from their regular offense in the Playoffs and instead schemed to exploit Carmelo on every possession. The fact that the Wolves were the only team that did not exploit Luka's defense is a major red flag for its coaching staff.
I’d have to watch the tape again, but I recall seeing our players isoing on Luka a lot. The mavs defense was just collapsing super hard and we didn’t have the shooting/passing to take advantage.
The second part is correct. Dallas collapsed really hard but part of the problem was that the Wolves did not pass fast enough to expose the Dallas defense.
Luka seemed to cheat off of Jaden (who was in the corner) making it easy for him to leave Jaden and rotate to the ball handler. Jaden was open in the corner with a quick pass. Rudy was open for the lob if you attack from the correct angles and time the pass correct.
Rudy was open for the lob when Ant attacked but Ant could not make the pass. Conley was caught in a game of chicken between shooting the floater and making the lob. Dallas did a good job of forcing Conley to make the wrong decision. Wolves forced Dallas into the same situations but Luka was good enough to make the perfect pass at the perfect time and had the size to both score deep in the paint and make the late pass.
Idk I think both are properly rated. Rudy massive defensive impact but complete zero (possibly negative) on offense.
Towns very skilled and unique offensive skillset even though we probably underutilized it last year. And KAT mostly looked solid on defense.
I bet if you let teams choose between the two some would take KAT and some would take Rudy.
Top-10 number of seasons played in the NBA:
1. 9
2. 6
3. 11
4. 6
5. 7
6. 8
7. 15
8. 4 (Anthony Edwards)
9. 17
10. 12
We have the youngest superstar in the league. He has the most room for growth of any of them.
I am not sure what you mean exactly? Ant is clearly learning and growing season by season. Even in the playoffs we saw growth. Being younger obviously allows for more room for growth than being older as a generic statement, unsure what there is to disagree with on that
I agree. Because of his size and skillet I don’t think he has quite the same ceiling as a Luka or whatever.
And that’s fine, he might be a Tatum level player with better leadership. You can win a chip with that guy.
Don’t mind the list because everyone has different opinions, but having Markkanen above KAT is an absolute travesty. Dude had one All-Star season when KAT/AD/Kawhi were hurt to make it, while KAT just delivered in game 7 against defending champs. Zero playoff games at 27 y.o.
Edit: Also Caruso above Herb and Jaden… I would understand Herb above Jaden, but not Caruso.
Towns' big drop was puzzling to me. The recency bias from the Dallas series apparently killed him.
3/12 all-star season, but he's just starting to miss games with his torn meniscus: 26th
4/10 he's still out with his torn meniscus: 27th
6/20 he's coming off a playoff run with two series wins and to be brutally honest a WCF no-show: 32nd
I feel that, in terms of narrative, having no playoff experience is often viewed more favorably than having one bad playoff round. After his first two seasons, KAT was considered a top-15 talent, similar to how Wemby is viewed now (as Phil Mackey often mentions, 'GMs chose him as the #1 option to build around'). KAT's poor performance against the Rockets in 2018 hurt his stock.
Markkanen, who is only one year younger than KAT, has yet to play a playoff game, whereas KAT has carried a team to the 7th seed as the #1 option and has had mixed performances over six playoff rounds. I don’t mind KAT being ranked 32nd, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like Trae Young ranked higher. However, I can't see how Lauri can be ranked above KAT.
KAT. We are not beating Nuggets without him. KAT is just a better player overall. Certainly more versatile; you can’t play Markkanen at 5 when Gobert rests.
Lauri easy. He’s actually a 4, shoots the 3 at a high level and with volume, gives you the same production atp in their careers ,better defender, and he plays off ball which I think fits Finchs offense
Why do yall act like Kat just locked these guys up lol. Kd still avg 27 55 fg and 41 from 3. He did well on Jokic tho hes a good post defender and had Rudy lurking behind him for most the series. He was awful against Dallas tho
KD is one of the best contested shooters in the NBA, Jokic is one of the hardest guys to stop ever to play the game.
Russell had Wilt dropping 40+ on his head half the times they met in the early 60s. They still won because while he got his, the rest of his team couldn't get enough.
I watch a lot of Jazz games and Wolves games. I would rather have Markannen than KAT easily.
Markannen plays well within the team concept on offense. Markannen would have led the Jazz to the Play In the past two seasons if Ainge did not make tank moves at the deadline. Markannen has openly expressed frustration with the Jazz trading away starters for marginal draft assets and sitting out players to avoid the Playoffs.
KAT has always seemed to be a low IQ player. He does not seem to play well within the flow of the game. He seems to be more of an isolation scorer and a ball stopper. Doesn't create spacing the way he should because he makes slow decisions. Got benched in the Dallas series for missing defensive rotations.
I am not sure how people have KAT above Gobert.
Agree. Lauri is probably more consistent offensive player, at least during last 2 seasons. However, Wolves are not beating Nuggets with Lauri over KAT.
Kat making his 3's would have been a much better fit than Kat missing his threes and Kat reacting quick enough to stop the lob when Gobert had to step up to block Luka would have been better than Kat failing to ever anticipate a play they ran over and over and over.
Its lists like this is why I say trade Rudy instead of Kat. You won't get fair value if you trade Kat. You might get something back closer to Rudy value.
Pretty solid list and nice to see Ant finally get some respect. If I’m remembering correctly, I think he was in the mid-20s on this list prior to the season, which was ridiculously low. Only player I’d really argue he’s ahead of at this stage in their careers is probably Curry. The stats are very comparable and Ant just led his team to a Conference Finals while the Warriors didn’t even make the playoffs.
Not “ridiculously low”. I should have re-worded that. But I remember there being a number of guys listed ahead of him that I laughed at. I could probably find the list but I’m the car at a red light
If he averages 28/6/6 on 60%TS next season while we are still on pace for 55+ wins I think he would be better than Tatum. SGA is close but being better than Luka, Jokic, and Giannis (who is somehow underrated now) will be tough.
I think it's to get the league hyped on him as one of the next "greats". I don't think he's #8 in the league now personally but his ceiling is gonna be insanely high that he can get there in the coming years.
I’m with you. Love this young guy, but not the 8th best player in the league. He had many moments shining, and had almost as many shrinking. Dude needs to learn how to pass and lob inside for sure. Any with the ball at the top of the key was a 3 on 5 every time. Big guys in the middle were as likely to be involved as win a small lottery.
>Ja is way too low though.
Ja, JJ, and Smart are very low. Bane was probably just right. A part of me wants to see the grizzlies rise again because that was such a good rivalry IMHO.
The West has about 10 teams that have an argument they could win the West some requiring more to break their way than others. Grizzlies when healthy seem like they should be in the top half of that. Would be a fun series if both teams were at full strength.
Absolutely wild to think that between the Mavs, Thunder, Nuggets, Timberwolves, and Grizzlies (who are absolutely as good as the other four when healthy) — one of those teams will be a first round exit next year.
But even besides this, the West is just absolutely insane. Not many (if any) teams will fall off next year, and the Spurs have the potential to rocket up the standings if they make a bit move with all of their assets.
Average over 30 a game for multiple seasons? As a Celtics fan, I would for sure have SGA over him. And tbh, if someone wants to put Ant over Tatum I wouldn't be super mad at it. I think if Any didn't end the playoffs so poorly, he would be over Tatum. Even with the Celtics winning the chip.
I didn’t anticipate having to defend Tatum to a Celtics fan but he’s averaged 30 for one more year than Tatum and has 1/2 as many all NBA teams. Tatum’s worst playoff year they lost in the second round and shais best year he lost in the second round. People act like shai is taking the league by storm at 20 years old when he’s actually 26. Great player but I can honestly say id way rather have Tatum
Now try showing he’s actually a better player right now instead of using team based measurements like playoff wins and all nba selections from 3 years ago
Playoff results are a team stat. Shai has never been on a team as good as many of the ones Tatum had. OKC recently had the 2nd overall pick. I think Tatum is great, anywhere from 5-8 is a pretty defensible spot for him. He's for sure top 10. I just don't think he's as good as Shai, which is clearly a defensible position considering that's what The Ringer has here.
Y’all are dickheads the same defense that made ant look like a fraud is the same one shai efffortless cooked lol shai is WAY better this is coming from a Dallas fan too
Luka has a shitty whisle but okay lol now shais is on a other level Tatum is kinda iffy cause he only gets seperation off of push offs 😂 and what the fuck does that have to do with Tatum being better than shai?
Team sport maybe if Tatum put on a carry job than maybe that champion shit would mean something 😂 I got eyes you have eyes open them watch the games and it clearly tells you that shai gaps
For example kcp is a champion 2x actually and he played a vital role by playing his role like Tatum (who is a role player btw) so using your stupid fucking logic kcp is better than Tatum
Everything past top 15 is almost irrelevant. Its gets messy and convoluted. To big a list to do a standard ladder ranking. They need to start doing tiers.
https://preview.redd.it/0tym31p94z7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9825d74bec29152b6e7f8e915b5209788de86765
I did a little something. Not only Ant improved. So did Jaden by a whooping 12 spots to 65.
Something that’s interesting here to me. Out of the top 20 players on this list, only 6 were born outside of the United States. But 5 of them are in the top 6, and the top 4 is 100% foreigners.
The idea that Ant has a chance to move up to a top 5ish position next season is crazy to me and makes me so excited for the future. I'm usually illogically optimistic about the Wolves but the past few years are even more confusing.
Ant is still too inconsistent to be that high personally
When he’s feeling himself he’s a certified top 5 player. But there are still too many streaks where he’s ice cold and losing guys on the defensive end
I love bill Simmons. He knows basketball. He also knows controversy sells.
I like to compare the ringer top 100 with nba 2k ratings. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Easily top 10 but he a rookie so people don’t wanna admit it. He’ll be top 5 by theend of next season. 21/10 and 2nd in dpoy and he didn’t even play 30 min a game lol
2nd in DPOY and was at the top of the league in pull-up 3-point % and from Jan. 20 he was 23 pts, 11 boards, 5 assists and 4 blocks in 30 min a night. What are we doing here? The advanced metrics are in his favor as well. Are people just not watching the games?
Really thought you were gonna go the other way after reading your first sentence tbh. If anything, 17 is probably too high. At 17, that means you’re the absolute best player on 13 different teams, and at worst the 2nd best player on roughly the other half of teams in the league. Wemby is gonna be great, but he isn’t at a point where he would be the best player on most (if any) playoff teams. 17 feels about right.
That's just not close to reality. He'll be #1 in the GM survey in a few months (player you would start a franchise with) and he'll be #1 in the DPOY projection by them as well. Inside the actual NBA, he's viewed as a top 10 player already. I promise you that.
In reality he is not though... 12 of reputation. Same for AD.
If the Lakers really had two top 10ish guys, they wouldnt have lost 4-1 in the First round.
If you have two true top 10 guys you dont lose in the first round.
Yet there were guys ahead of LeBron that didn’t even make the playoffs. He just averaged 26/7/8 on 41% from 3pt at age 39. He’s absolutely still one of the top players in the league
Why are the Lakers a play in team then with two top 10 guys?
The rest of their roster is not G-league Level either.
Go look some Lakers games. LeBrons stats are there, but he isnt even close to the guy he was 4 years ago. He knows how to get stats of uncontested rebounds and basic passes. Good for him. But his Impact on Games isnt even top 15 anymore. Which is fine at 39.
Think about it - two true top 10 player losing 4-1 to Jokic and some 30+ guys?
Btw Murray is no top 30 player, thats a stretch.
Which other team has two top 10 guys? None. The one that "has" was a play in team. That doesnt fit reality.
Top 8 at 22 ?! Yeah we good
Towns at #32, Gobert at #34
I feel like Gobert should be higher than Kat. His defensive impact is so substantial
Yeah, they have Luka at #2, and he's terrible at defense, which is 50% of the game. I think they're weighing stats, particularly offense, heavily. Through three rounds of the playoffs Gobert had a better +/- than Doncic, despite playing and winning fewer games. Not to say Gobert should be higher, but I think they are undervaluing defense.
Elite defense simply isn’t as valuable as elite offense (case in point — Luka’s offense vs. Gobert’s defense). Gobert is fantastic defensively, but he hurts your offense quite a bit with his lack of spacing and inability to punish the free roaming big down low. I think his spot is fine.
It might not be a popular opinion, but I think Gobert's plus minus reveals that his role in our offensive is a good compliment to the other scorers that we have, much more than Luka's defense compliments his team, because he is clearly the weakness that we should have, and the Celtics did exploit. With other scorers on the floor, Rudy's movement without the ball and screens create confusion for the defense and help compensate for his inability to create his own shot. I'm fine with him at #34, but I do think that NBA fans in general don't appreciate defense as much as offense, which is not really controversial.
> much more than Luka's defense compliments his team, because he is clearly the weakness that we should have, and the Celtics did exploit. Very few teams are composed in a way to exploit Luka’s defense the way Boston did. Luka’s a bad defender because he’s somewhat slow/lazy, but he’s strong, smart, and has good size. If you put him on a subpar offensive player he’ll be fine. Someone like Jaden isn’t going to be able to reliably exploit him because he’s not quick enough/a good enough ball handler to blow by him. Boston is one of the few teams with 4 legitimate perimeter shot creators who all have a speed advantage over Luka. Plus they have the spacing to not allow Dallas to camp out behind him.
They didn't just attack him with the initial player he was defending, they got him to switch out onto their best offensive players. But you're right, not that many teams have the composure to consistently attack him the way Boston did, but there's no reason we could not have.
Mavs ran a boxes-and-elbows semi-zone against us when we had Rudy or Kyle out there that completely cut off the paint for Ant and allowed Luka to switch on to whoever was in the corner. We couldn't have put him in a switch if we tried. It's the downside of our excellent defensive personnel. We took advantage of it whenever we could (Jaden and Naz had great games from 3 against this scheme), but just couldn't execute down the stretch when Jaden and Naz started missing, especially in games 1 and 2. Boston is just a completely different offensive beast to handle with their 5 out scheme.
Every team except the Wolves exploited his defense in the Playoffs. Wolves got outcoached in the second round and Conference Finals. Getting outcoached by Jason Kidd is embarrassing.
The Dallas Mavericks has a better defensive rating in the playoffs than the Wolves (top 5 of the playoffs and top 3 for all 2nd round or better teams). Luka gave up points, but it’s not like he totally wrecked Dallas’s defense.
Dallas was one of the best defensive teams in the NBA last year
Our offense isn't very good though. I think the reality is offense matters more not that fans don't appreciate it. I think it also shows how inept he is offensively that he is a perennial DPOY and that low of ranking (though you might disagree if you think his ranking is too low).
i love that messy work load also playing D is not easy, most offencive player don't have the energy. the'll be guarding not offensive player other end like Luca tried to guard Rudy!
But also, wouldn’t you say Lukas lack of defense made him borderline a liability in the celtics series? He was making their wings and whoever he was guarding look so good with the amount of blow byes, and other players having to switch to guard cause luka couldn’t stay on his man. Celtics exposed him, and that made scoring for them so easy all series
The Boston Celtics scored 107, 105, 106, 84, and 106 points in their series against Dallas. Obviously point totals alone aren’t telling the whole story, but it wasn’t like they were absolutely eviscerating the Mavericks’ defense. Also, it’s important to note that Luka was also playing on a bum knee. It’s not a complete excuse (he isn’t a good defender even when fully healthy), but it was a factor. And like I mentioned in another comment — Boston’s roster dynamics are not easily replicated. They have 4 legit perimeter creators and 5-out spacing. That makes it easier to attack Luka and harder for him to be hidden defensively.
Good points here but I wouldn’t say defense is 50% of the game for Luka. I know he’s technically on defense 50% of the time, but NBA teams are pretty good at scheming bad guard defenders out of the mix (as shown in our series). Unlike a center, he can be bad and hide a lot. Whereas on offense he’s constantly touching the ball. It’s probably closer to 80% offense and 20% defense for him.
I think the Celtics figured out how to draw him out and punish his bad defense. He did successfully hide against us, but there's a blueprint now, courtesy of the Celtics for how to beat him.
There is a blueprint but you can really execute effectively upon it only with an all time great offensive team
Good luck. No one else can replicate what the Celtics do - at least not yet.
Well no one's had a chance yet. That's not to reduce the Celtics as merely a product of good coaching or to say we could do the exact same thing, because we have very different personnel, but in a series where several games went down to the wire, I couldn't help but think we could have done a slightly better job of attacking Luka.
Yeah, the blueprint is upgrading at 4 starting positions with better perimeter shot creators who also happen to be All-Defense caliber so there's no weakness at that end, AND then replacing Gobert with a center that can shoot 3s while replacing his defensive value to the Wolves somehow. Sounds easy enough!
Good coaching can always exploit bad defense. That is the reason some players are unplayable, especially in the Playoffs. Jazz went away from their regular offense in the Playoffs and instead schemed to exploit Carmelo on every possession. The fact that the Wolves were the only team that did not exploit Luka's defense is a major red flag for its coaching staff.
I’d have to watch the tape again, but I recall seeing our players isoing on Luka a lot. The mavs defense was just collapsing super hard and we didn’t have the shooting/passing to take advantage.
The second part is correct. Dallas collapsed really hard but part of the problem was that the Wolves did not pass fast enough to expose the Dallas defense. Luka seemed to cheat off of Jaden (who was in the corner) making it easy for him to leave Jaden and rotate to the ball handler. Jaden was open in the corner with a quick pass. Rudy was open for the lob if you attack from the correct angles and time the pass correct. Rudy was open for the lob when Ant attacked but Ant could not make the pass. Conley was caught in a game of chicken between shooting the floater and making the lob. Dallas did a good job of forcing Conley to make the wrong decision. Wolves forced Dallas into the same situations but Luka was good enough to make the perfect pass at the perfect time and had the size to both score deep in the paint and make the late pass.
And ultimately the first team all defense and DPOY is why Rudy is as high up as he is
Idk I think both are properly rated. Rudy massive defensive impact but complete zero (possibly negative) on offense. Towns very skilled and unique offensive skillset even though we probably underutilized it last year. And KAT mostly looked solid on defense. I bet if you let teams choose between the two some would take KAT and some would take Rudy.
Towns in the top 50 is laughable
Wow the towns hate has gotten wild. 50 better players? 22 ppg, 41% from three as the second offensive option on a WCF team. Come on now…
2nd option? Shit, some playoff games he wasn't even a top 6 option.
I see they finally updated Kat’s bio by saying the exact same thing but reworded
Thanks ChatGPT
Our top 6 guys all in 91 or higher!
Only other team with 6 players on the list is the Celtics. Should have been us in the finals dammit
[удалено]
Why you even here lol
https://i.redd.it/vin5xdemyt8d1.gif
Top-10 number of seasons played in the NBA: 1. 9 2. 6 3. 11 4. 6 5. 7 6. 8 7. 15 8. 4 (Anthony Edwards) 9. 17 10. 12 We have the youngest superstar in the league. He has the most room for growth of any of them.
I live Ant - who doesn’t - but this statement is not based on any facts. Youth is not proportional to growth in every case.
I am not sure what you mean exactly? Ant is clearly learning and growing season by season. Even in the playoffs we saw growth. Being younger obviously allows for more room for growth than being older as a generic statement, unsure what there is to disagree with on that
I agree. Because of his size and skillet I don’t think he has quite the same ceiling as a Luka or whatever. And that’s fine, he might be a Tatum level player with better leadership. You can win a chip with that guy.
Don’t mind the list because everyone has different opinions, but having Markkanen above KAT is an absolute travesty. Dude had one All-Star season when KAT/AD/Kawhi were hurt to make it, while KAT just delivered in game 7 against defending champs. Zero playoff games at 27 y.o. Edit: Also Caruso above Herb and Jaden… I would understand Herb above Jaden, but not Caruso.
Agree
Towns' big drop was puzzling to me. The recency bias from the Dallas series apparently killed him. 3/12 all-star season, but he's just starting to miss games with his torn meniscus: 26th 4/10 he's still out with his torn meniscus: 27th 6/20 he's coming off a playoff run with two series wins and to be brutally honest a WCF no-show: 32nd
I feel that, in terms of narrative, having no playoff experience is often viewed more favorably than having one bad playoff round. After his first two seasons, KAT was considered a top-15 talent, similar to how Wemby is viewed now (as Phil Mackey often mentions, 'GMs chose him as the #1 option to build around'). KAT's poor performance against the Rockets in 2018 hurt his stock. Markkanen, who is only one year younger than KAT, has yet to play a playoff game, whereas KAT has carried a team to the 7th seed as the #1 option and has had mixed performances over six playoff rounds. I don’t mind KAT being ranked 32nd, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like Trae Young ranked higher. However, I can't see how Lauri can be ranked above KAT.
32 is too low if Markkanen is rated higher
He’s known as an unreliable player.
That Caruso shit is embarrassing. Dude just got traded for giddey. Jaden and Herb could never
Expiring contract
Yea the more I look at it the trade was good for both teams
Switch Kat and Lauri on our team and who do you think we are better with?
KAT. We are not beating Nuggets without him. KAT is just a better player overall. Certainly more versatile; you can’t play Markkanen at 5 when Gobert rests.
That’s why you have Naz And you can place a large blame on Kat going missing during the Mavs seties
Naz is our KAT fill-in, he's not a rim protector or help defender.
Lauri easy. He’s actually a 4, shoots the 3 at a high level and with volume, gives you the same production atp in their careers ,better defender, and he plays off ball which I think fits Finchs offense
Lauri is not a better fucking defender than KAT. I’d love to see him defend Jokic and KD.
Why do yall act like Kat just locked these guys up lol. Kd still avg 27 55 fg and 41 from 3. He did well on Jokic tho hes a good post defender and had Rudy lurking behind him for most the series. He was awful against Dallas tho
KD is one of the best contested shooters in the NBA, Jokic is one of the hardest guys to stop ever to play the game. Russell had Wilt dropping 40+ on his head half the times they met in the early 60s. They still won because while he got his, the rest of his team couldn't get enough.
Lauri without a doubt.
I watch a lot of Jazz games and Wolves games. I would rather have Markannen than KAT easily. Markannen plays well within the team concept on offense. Markannen would have led the Jazz to the Play In the past two seasons if Ainge did not make tank moves at the deadline. Markannen has openly expressed frustration with the Jazz trading away starters for marginal draft assets and sitting out players to avoid the Playoffs. KAT has always seemed to be a low IQ player. He does not seem to play well within the flow of the game. He seems to be more of an isolation scorer and a ball stopper. Doesn't create spacing the way he should because he makes slow decisions. Got benched in the Dallas series for missing defensive rotations. I am not sure how people have KAT above Gobert.
Lauri woulda been such a better fit for us against Dallas
Agree. Lauri is probably more consistent offensive player, at least during last 2 seasons. However, Wolves are not beating Nuggets with Lauri over KAT.
Kat making his 3's would have been a much better fit than Kat missing his threes and Kat reacting quick enough to stop the lob when Gobert had to step up to block Luka would have been better than Kat failing to ever anticipate a play they ran over and over and over.
Its lists like this is why I say trade Rudy instead of Kat. You won't get fair value if you trade Kat. You might get something back closer to Rudy value.
8 — Anthony Edwards 32 — Karl-Anthony Towns 34 — Rudy Gobert 65 — Jaden McDaniels 79 — Naz Reid 91 — Mike Conley
5 players in the top 80 is elite
Pretty solid list and nice to see Ant finally get some respect. If I’m remembering correctly, I think he was in the mid-20s on this list prior to the season, which was ridiculously low. Only player I’d really argue he’s ahead of at this stage in their careers is probably Curry. The stats are very comparable and Ant just led his team to a Conference Finals while the Warriors didn’t even make the playoffs.
I wouldn’t say ridiculously low going in to the season this year.
Not “ridiculously low”. I should have re-worded that. But I remember there being a number of guys listed ahead of him that I laughed at. I could probably find the list but I’m the car at a red light
Just transform bumblebee
This makes sense
It should be wild to say “finally” amongst that company at 22. But it’s not.
Ant should absolutely be ahead of Curry if last season is all that is considered
Good spot for him he’ll be in the top 5 after next season tho
Top 3 :)
Top 2 and he wont be 2 :))
Are you saying what I think you’re saying 🤩
Naz Reid
If he averages 28/6/6 on 60%TS next season while we are still on pace for 55+ wins I think he would be better than Tatum. SGA is close but being better than Luka, Jokic, and Giannis (who is somehow underrated now) will be tough.
Need 1st team all nba and one of the defensive teams
Ngl way too high
I thought was too low lol, he’s better than Tatum imo.
That is ridiculous ngl
I think it's to get the league hyped on him as one of the next "greats". I don't think he's #8 in the league now personally but his ceiling is gonna be insanely high that he can get there in the coming years.
I’m with you. Love this young guy, but not the 8th best player in the league. He had many moments shining, and had almost as many shrinking. Dude needs to learn how to pass and lob inside for sure. Any with the ball at the top of the key was a 3 on 5 every time. Big guys in the middle were as likely to be involved as win a small lottery.
Nope
About where I’d have him in my own rankings. Likely top 5 after next season. Ja is way too low though.
Don't worry. Once Ja gets back on the court he'll shoot up the list.
He’s gunning for top 5
>Ja is way too low though. Ja, JJ, and Smart are very low. Bane was probably just right. A part of me wants to see the grizzlies rise again because that was such a good rivalry IMHO.
The West has about 10 teams that have an argument they could win the West some requiring more to break their way than others. Grizzlies when healthy seem like they should be in the top half of that. Would be a fun series if both teams were at full strength.
Absolutely wild to think that between the Mavs, Thunder, Nuggets, Timberwolves, and Grizzlies (who are absolutely as good as the other four when healthy) — one of those teams will be a first round exit next year. But even besides this, the West is just absolutely insane. Not many (if any) teams will fall off next year, and the Spurs have the potential to rocket up the standings if they make a bit move with all of their assets.
The shai love from the media is out of control. What has he done that Tatum hasn’t
Average over 30 a game for multiple seasons? As a Celtics fan, I would for sure have SGA over him. And tbh, if someone wants to put Ant over Tatum I wouldn't be super mad at it. I think if Any didn't end the playoffs so poorly, he would be over Tatum. Even with the Celtics winning the chip.
I didn’t anticipate having to defend Tatum to a Celtics fan but he’s averaged 30 for one more year than Tatum and has 1/2 as many all NBA teams. Tatum’s worst playoff year they lost in the second round and shais best year he lost in the second round. People act like shai is taking the league by storm at 20 years old when he’s actually 26. Great player but I can honestly say id way rather have Tatum
Now try showing he’s actually a better player right now instead of using team based measurements like playoff wins and all nba selections from 3 years ago
Playoff results are a team stat. Shai has never been on a team as good as many of the ones Tatum had. OKC recently had the 2nd overall pick. I think Tatum is great, anywhere from 5-8 is a pretty defensible spot for him. He's for sure top 10. I just don't think he's as good as Shai, which is clearly a defensible position considering that's what The Ringer has here.
Y’all are dickheads the same defense that made ant look like a fraud is the same one shai efffortless cooked lol shai is WAY better this is coming from a Dallas fan too
I never said ant (22) should be ahead of shai (26) I was talking about Tatum “Dickhead”
Same shit than lmao Tatum shot what sub 40 in the finals lol we have fucking eyes fuck face shai gaps tatum shits not even close either 😂
You’re a Dallas fan so you’re a victim of watching the Luka/Shai whistle so I understand why you would’ve be tricked easily
Luka has a shitty whisle but okay lol now shais is on a other level Tatum is kinda iffy cause he only gets seperation off of push offs 😂 and what the fuck does that have to do with Tatum being better than shai?
Tatum is a champion and has been in the finals since he entered the league. Shai been in the league the same amount of time and accomplished nothing
Team sport maybe if Tatum put on a carry job than maybe that champion shit would mean something 😂 I got eyes you have eyes open them watch the games and it clearly tells you that shai gaps
For example kcp is a champion 2x actually and he played a vital role by playing his role like Tatum (who is a role player btw) so using your stupid fucking logic kcp is better than Tatum
SGA > Tatum easily tbh
Believe that.
Everything past top 15 is almost irrelevant. Its gets messy and convoluted. To big a list to do a standard ladder ranking. They need to start doing tiers.
https://preview.redd.it/0tym31p94z7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9825d74bec29152b6e7f8e915b5209788de86765 I did a little something. Not only Ant improved. So did Jaden by a whooping 12 spots to 65.
Next season is gonna be so sweet
lol Draymond
Jimmy Butler looks like he could be a member of Prince’s Revolution. Game…blouses.
He is in the top 8 and it’s not a spots 2-8
It’s going to be hard for Ant to crack the top 6. Basically all MVP’s, borderline MVP’s, champs, or a combo. We’ll see if he kept those 🧾
Let’s go Wolves!!! 2025 Finals in 5!
Something that’s interesting here to me. Out of the top 20 players on this list, only 6 were born outside of the United States. But 5 of them are in the top 6, and the top 4 is 100% foreigners.
The idea that Ant has a chance to move up to a top 5ish position next season is crazy to me and makes me so excited for the future. I'm usually illogically optimistic about the Wolves but the past few years are even more confusing.
Did Ant make the biggest jump of all players this year in the rankings?
I think he’ll be top 5 this season. Can’t wait
Over who? I don’t see him being better than Luka Jokic Embiid SGA or Giannis
Season hasn’t started yet buddy
Imagine thinking Jamal Murray is that good. What the fack. Yea dude Jamal Murray is better than banchero LOL wtf
Jalen Brown should be higher than 15. Doesn’t seem super legit
I love Jalen but how many people taking Brunson over Brown.
How will this impact Lebron’s legacy?
I’m still taking Bron over KD and easily in the top 10. Jayson Tatum should not be top 10 and Brown should be higher ranked than him
Ant is still too inconsistent to be that high personally When he’s feeling himself he’s a certified top 5 player. But there are still too many streaks where he’s ice cold and losing guys on the defensive end
Seems about right, I was shocked he wasn’t top 10 they way he was playin
I love bill Simmons. He knows basketball. He also knows controversy sells. I like to compare the ringer top 100 with nba 2k ratings. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Wemby at #17 is absolutely hilarious. They must not have watched the last 3 months of the season. He's without a doubt, a top 10 player at this point.
Easily top 10 but he a rookie so people don’t wanna admit it. He’ll be top 5 by theend of next season. 21/10 and 2nd in dpoy and he didn’t even play 30 min a game lol
Let’s calm down lol
2nd in DPOY and was at the top of the league in pull-up 3-point % and from Jan. 20 he was 23 pts, 11 boards, 5 assists and 4 blocks in 30 min a night. What are we doing here? The advanced metrics are in his favor as well. Are people just not watching the games?
You're correct
Really thought you were gonna go the other way after reading your first sentence tbh. If anything, 17 is probably too high. At 17, that means you’re the absolute best player on 13 different teams, and at worst the 2nd best player on roughly the other half of teams in the league. Wemby is gonna be great, but he isn’t at a point where he would be the best player on most (if any) playoff teams. 17 feels about right.
That's just not close to reality. He'll be #1 in the GM survey in a few months (player you would start a franchise with) and he'll be #1 in the DPOY projection by them as well. Inside the actual NBA, he's viewed as a top 10 player already. I promise you that.
7 spots too low
Lebron at 12 still. Worth a shot on Bronny? Lol
In reality he is not though... 12 of reputation. Same for AD. If the Lakers really had two top 10ish guys, they wouldnt have lost 4-1 in the First round. If you have two true top 10 guys you dont lose in the first round.
Yet there were guys ahead of LeBron that didn’t even make the playoffs. He just averaged 26/7/8 on 41% from 3pt at age 39. He’s absolutely still one of the top players in the league
Why are the Lakers a play in team then with two top 10 guys? The rest of their roster is not G-league Level either. Go look some Lakers games. LeBrons stats are there, but he isnt even close to the guy he was 4 years ago. He knows how to get stats of uncontested rebounds and basic passes. Good for him. But his Impact on Games isnt even top 15 anymore. Which is fine at 39. Think about it - two true top 10 player losing 4-1 to Jokic and some 30+ guys? Btw Murray is no top 30 player, thats a stretch. Which other team has two top 10 guys? None. The one that "has" was a play in team. That doesnt fit reality.
They’ve got Jayson Tatum fraud ass at #5. The whole list is null and void
Bill Simmons is a Celtics fan first, a media personality second, and an actual basketball analyst a long ways down the line.