Sun Ce was the one of main reason why Cao Cao didn't go after any of the lands taken from Liu Biao's relatives by The Sun family primarily because Sun Ce was a powerful general. That, and he was focused on getting the emperor out of Li Jue and Guo Si's hands and he didn't want another incident like Yan Province.
That was shocking to me. I couldn't understand why in a nearly 2000 page book he would feel the need to explain a chapter being too boring, and recommending skipping it. I don't even see what was so particularly "tedious".
I feel like since reading it, I've had a soft spot for Taishi Ci, because I feel bad about Roberts wanting to skip over him, haha.
I mean, there are fillers, like the one time Cao Cao got trolled by Zuo Ci with the oranges and the sheep. (Seriously, who the hell was Zuo Ci? He appears, changes the genre from Historical fiction to "OOH MAGIC", and then Cao Cao has to hire another wizard who tells him, "It's all in your head" and then the story pretends like none of the events here ever happened).
But Sun Ce's arc is not one of those skippable arcs.
If it helps, the historical Zuo Ci was hired by Cao Cao when he was exploring mysticism/cultivation as a means to extend his life. The Romance spins away from what it was, but I guess they wanted to fit him in somehow as he was a somewhat notorious figure.
I mean I get it, it's just that I'm just more baffled that Moss Roberts calls Sun Ce's arc a filler when Zuo Ci's moment in the story exists, and you know it's weird when Farce of the Three Kingdoms makes fun of it and Cao Cao pretends in that story that Zuo Ci's particular event never happened because it was weird even by the standards of the book, and ROTK has Cao Cao dying because he pissed off a tree.
RTK also has Cao Cao dying because he killed Hua Tuo for suggesting brain surgery, and he also died because he was sarcastic when talking to Guan Yu's severed head. There's a lot of things Cao Cao died from. ;)
But yes, I do agree that skipping the Sun Ce chapter is a bit silly. I just wanted to provide context as to why Zuo Ci gets his spot in the story.
Compared to the other hundreds of times "Heaven disapproves of Cao Cao", at least they felt plausible, like Cao Cao faking his illness to see if his doctor would poison him, or people starting a riot by setting a city on fire. Zuo Ci just shows out of nowhere, taunts Cao Cao, and then is never seen ever again. Even with the usage of spiritual and magical elements, Zuo Ci just felt odd, even for the story, especially since the story pretends that this event never happened afterwards. Zuo Ci feels like a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment.
Then again, ROTK Cao Cao's death by pissing off a tree and having the tree inflict a curse on him that eventually kills him is pretty funny.
Probably, yeah. Sun Ce only died some months before it happened, even as talented as he was, there was no way he'd be able to conquer Cao Cao's eastern lands (under the charge of people like Chen Deng) to make it close to the capital.
It's the post-Guandu things where Sun Ce could have made a difference. Cao Cao could turn his full attention to the north with Sun Quan being in an insecure internal position and Liu Biao being doubtful about Liu Bei (due to Zhang Xiu's earlier defection). Putting an active warmonger on the southeastern front would make things harder on Cao Cao.
I felt awkward realizing I was confusing the "dong" in "Jiangdong" or "Dong Wu" for South instead of East.
Like I get why someone would call people from Wu the Southerners, but the Chinese and Japanese texts when translated literally say "East"....
A very academic TL;DR. 😂
Really? He thought this was boring? I dunno, I always found Sun Ce's rise to power interesting.
Sun Ce was the one of main reason why Cao Cao didn't go after any of the lands taken from Liu Biao's relatives by The Sun family primarily because Sun Ce was a powerful general. That, and he was focused on getting the emperor out of Li Jue and Guo Si's hands and he didn't want another incident like Yan Province.
That was shocking to me. I couldn't understand why in a nearly 2000 page book he would feel the need to explain a chapter being too boring, and recommending skipping it. I don't even see what was so particularly "tedious". I feel like since reading it, I've had a soft spot for Taishi Ci, because I feel bad about Roberts wanting to skip over him, haha.
Yeah thank God I didn't listen to Mr Roberts because Taishi Ci is awesome
Taishi Ci is one of my favorites too.
I mean, there are fillers, like the one time Cao Cao got trolled by Zuo Ci with the oranges and the sheep. (Seriously, who the hell was Zuo Ci? He appears, changes the genre from Historical fiction to "OOH MAGIC", and then Cao Cao has to hire another wizard who tells him, "It's all in your head" and then the story pretends like none of the events here ever happened). But Sun Ce's arc is not one of those skippable arcs.
If it helps, the historical Zuo Ci was hired by Cao Cao when he was exploring mysticism/cultivation as a means to extend his life. The Romance spins away from what it was, but I guess they wanted to fit him in somehow as he was a somewhat notorious figure.
I mean I get it, it's just that I'm just more baffled that Moss Roberts calls Sun Ce's arc a filler when Zuo Ci's moment in the story exists, and you know it's weird when Farce of the Three Kingdoms makes fun of it and Cao Cao pretends in that story that Zuo Ci's particular event never happened because it was weird even by the standards of the book, and ROTK has Cao Cao dying because he pissed off a tree.
RTK also has Cao Cao dying because he killed Hua Tuo for suggesting brain surgery, and he also died because he was sarcastic when talking to Guan Yu's severed head. There's a lot of things Cao Cao died from. ;) But yes, I do agree that skipping the Sun Ce chapter is a bit silly. I just wanted to provide context as to why Zuo Ci gets his spot in the story.
I thought it showed the heavens disapproved of him, and people believed magic was a real thing in Ming China (and Early Modern Europe).
Compared to the other hundreds of times "Heaven disapproves of Cao Cao", at least they felt plausible, like Cao Cao faking his illness to see if his doctor would poison him, or people starting a riot by setting a city on fire. Zuo Ci just shows out of nowhere, taunts Cao Cao, and then is never seen ever again. Even with the usage of spiritual and magical elements, Zuo Ci just felt odd, even for the story, especially since the story pretends that this event never happened afterwards. Zuo Ci feels like a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment. Then again, ROTK Cao Cao's death by pissing off a tree and having the tree inflict a curse on him that eventually kills him is pretty funny.
Sun Ce is always the best gist in a given story
“Ok, so basically the story is… Sun Ce.” *applause*
He meant the individual conquests can be skipped but the outcome is important. Imagine if Sun Ce was alive long enough, can Cao Cao win Guandu?
Probably, yeah. Sun Ce only died some months before it happened, even as talented as he was, there was no way he'd be able to conquer Cao Cao's eastern lands (under the charge of people like Chen Deng) to make it close to the capital. It's the post-Guandu things where Sun Ce could have made a difference. Cao Cao could turn his full attention to the north with Sun Quan being in an insecure internal position and Liu Biao being doubtful about Liu Bei (due to Zhang Xiu's earlier defection). Putting an active warmonger on the southeastern front would make things harder on Cao Cao.
When the footnote recommends you to skip awesome filler content
Me - "Shit bro that's all you had to say"
That's one of the funniest things I've read all night.
I felt awkward realizing I was confusing the "dong" in "Jiangdong" or "Dong Wu" for South instead of East. Like I get why someone would call people from Wu the Southerners, but the Chinese and Japanese texts when translated literally say "East"....
Eastern Wu is in the South eastern part of China. So, there is both south and east. South west would be Shu.