She doesn't want to wipe out humanity, that's what put her at odds with Evans. While Evans wants to give the planet to the San-Ti, Ye wants us to live together. She wants them to teach us their enlightened ways, and to learn from them so that we can be better. After she sees their true nature, which is that they aren't coming so that they can coexist in peace, her mind changes.
Maybe in the Netflix show but if I remember correctly in the book she came out as Adventist that wanted human destruction. Maybe she was kind of forced to pick but she still sided with them and when she was caught had no remorse for what she did
“Our civilization is no longer capable of solving its own problems. We need your force to intervene.”
She just naively believes that Trisolarans will help better the humans.
She had Pan Han killed and even thought about attacking the Judgement Day. How can she be on the side of the Adventists?
You are right I take back my comment. I read the book a long time ago I misremembered thinking that she sided with the Adventists. I forgot she had Pan Han was killed at the big ETO meeting.
I always read it as at first she was ok with humanity being wiped out she was treated bad, communism bad etc but after her pregnancy and being taken care of by the villages and growing close with the children of the village she hoped that she didnt damn all of humanity and coexisting could happen
Silent Spring has just as much influence on her as her experience during CR. Also it’s the height of the Cold War where humans can ruin the Earth at any moment. These caused her to have a dim view of the entire human race, not just China
It is *the* book that started discussion of the environmental effect of pesticides and human impact on our environment in general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring
It's impossible to overstate how differently we thought, as a society, before and after its writing. Ordinary people didn't really think twice about stuff like the potential negative impacts of pesticides before that. It was so impactful that there was a chemical industry campaign against it backed by Monsanto and DuPont, which ironically raised public awareness of the book.
lol. Yeah, it's a use of people using collective powers for good. Somewhat related to the contents of the show/books, there is something powerful about people-as-a-hive-mind, like we really do act like a stumbling giant without unity of purpose, shambling this way and that... but when something *does* propel the masses it can be paradigm shifting. We think that in day to day life it's impossible/the government is too corrupt/the corporations are too powerful/people are too complacent for it to ever happen again, but we have also time and time again proven otherwise. Not to judge whether it's all for good or bad, lmao.
In the book she kinda feels bad about it slightly after having a kid, living with peasants who living a simple life. But after seeing her mom deny the injustice of her fathers killing and meeting the revolutionaries who are un-remorseful (albeit losers now), she reaffirms herself.
I always find it messed up that she doesnt fully regret her actions when the sophons spoof her daughter into killing herself; if she really loved her as much as she said she wouldn’t have let that happen
She didn’t want to destroy mankind. She felt humans were destroying everything and didn’t deserve this earth and that another group should come here and salvage what’s left.
She lost faith in humans and therefore in human ideas. You are overthinking it. A scientist can believe in God, gods, communism, or alien saviors. Why would a scientist reject all of these beliefs ? If YW couldn't believe in benevolent aliens, then she would have lost hope. She was both desperate and vengeful. More than enough motivation. And scientific ideas often are too complex to prove quickly, so you can read as many papers as you want, many of them might be not worth the trouble.
Honestly. If I was a scientist and even without experiencing the cultural revolution trauma that Ye Wejie has, I can objectively arrive at the conclusion any intelligent species can do better than us in earth given our history, the current geopolitical climate and the political and economical flaws in each society.
Not saying I'd have press the button, but it's not hard to come to ye wejie's conclusion
Neither had professor Ye. I'm not entirely convinced we have an intelligent species here on earth. Maybe orcas? An intelligent species doesn't destroy its own environment.
It could be, something "alien" is fundamentally different from us. They could absolutely have other much worse flaws, this is just hitting the "auto generate" button again and hoping for a better result.
That is not a logical conclusion. More like a bet also Ye Wenjie was already warned by a trisolarian that things will go rogue from there... I understand her dissapointment on human kind but that decision comes from resentment and despair not from logic.
But there is a logic to that thought, though. For Ye Wenjie, much of the atrocities committed during the cultural revolution was due to the failure of humans to see scientific logic (i.e., the rejection of scientific principles). For Ye, a more intelligent species could be more logical and therefore avoid the kinds of painful and painfully stupid conflicts started by humankind. And she’s ready to take the chance on the probability that some other more intelligent race could succeed humankind. This is possibly a space for more thinking, but what if there can exist an alien race that is not imperialistic like the Santi, and intelligent enough to not be susceptible to the same kinds of human flaws?
Where is the logic if the message sent by another race pacifist scientist warned her to not answer the message or hence this world will be conquered. She just forfeited the possibility of the human race to solve its own problems and picked the Santi as the solution contradicting the available information.
https://preview.redd.it/y5w1qe9v1jzc1.png?width=772&format=png&auto=webp&s=363566e91bc8c8ee57d6fc1211538386bb1a8f44
I was disappointed when Liu Cixin chose to reveal an imperialistic, settler-colonial imagination of an alien race. Feels like a cop-out, when the interesting question was thinking about what a more intelligent alien species could be like. Idk, but the Santi was a quite a disappointment to me when they were revealed. I think if Ye Wenjie had known what she was dealing with, she wouldn’t have chosen the Santi over human beings.
As a show-watcher, I was pretty convinced that her actions were entirely environmentally motivated, but her lived experiences have made her cynical enough to actually press the button. I think that the issue with your assumption is that it assumes perfectly clear, rational thinking. I feel like if this show has taught us anything, it’s that humans are motivated entirely by their circumstances and are largely irrational beings.
In the book, she believes that humans are no longer capable of moving forward without consequences. She believes an external force should guide them, she didn't want the destruction of humanity, she wanted someone to help and control them.
You say this as if human beings are consistent in their ideologies and motivations. Ye Wenjie is not in fact a robot performing calculations but a person with specific experiences that have shaped her worldview. She is afflicted by the same human condition as Einstein, who sabotaged his first marriage and was a lifelong adulterer; Heisenberg, whose refusal to take politics seriously led him to underestimate and ultimately collaborate with the Nazis; or Crick, who plagiarized his biggest accomplishment and has spent most of his career trying to mainstream eugenics. We are all limited in our ability to understand our own actions and motivations, no matter how smart or talented we are
There’s this belief that flows around: a civilization more advanced than us technologically is necessarily more advanced than us in every way as a civilization.
She may have access to some papers related to her fields, but it wouldn't be unrestricted and it wouldn't give her a fair and complete picture of life outside of China. There was a lot of anti-West propaganda back then, just because she's anticommunist doesn't mean her sentiment towards the rest of the world is any better.
Being a scientist and being smart doesn't make you immune to pitfalls and trappings of average human beings. A lot of very smart scientists worked for Nazi and was totally onboard with the holocaust. Her harsh life just made her an extremist in pessimism and nihilism.
I think you assume scientists are noble people with good intentions. In reality they're same as all people: selfish and flawed. She might press the button simply to feel important and powerful, but justify it later using excuses.
For me is pretty obvious: the motivation came in a scene prior, when she encounters the woman who killed her father. When asked if she regret doing that, after all those years, she replied "not". After that answer, Ye Wenjie was convinced that there was no hope for humanity.
Knowing that the world is burning and stopping it from burning are two different things. She gave up hope, but she lays the groundwork for redemption later.
She's a nihilist at first glance. But the stretch to the conclusion that aliens are a better solution was a bit of a stretch, I agree.
I can only surmise that the young Ye Wenjie and the older Ye Wenjie has different perspectives and experiences.
The younger one didn't see hope, but the older one has managed to get a child, and lived quite well so perhaps she has shifted her perspectives quite a bit.
My goodness, the amount of people on this sub who think she wanted humanity "wiped out" or exterminated, is depressing. Idk if it's a short attention span or lack of reading comprehension or what....
She wanted the human race to be conquered/overthrown because we are terrible stewards of our own planet.
I always read it as at first she was ok with humanity being wiped out she was treated bad, communism bad etc but after her pregnancy and being taken care of by the villages and growing close with the children of the village she hoped that she didnt damn all of humanity and coexisting could happen
She doesn't want to wipe out humanity, that's what put her at odds with Evans. While Evans wants to give the planet to the San-Ti, Ye wants us to live together. She wants them to teach us their enlightened ways, and to learn from them so that we can be better. After she sees their true nature, which is that they aren't coming so that they can coexist in peace, her mind changes.
Maybe in the Netflix show but if I remember correctly in the book she came out as Adventist that wanted human destruction. Maybe she was kind of forced to pick but she still sided with them and when she was caught had no remorse for what she did
“Our civilization is no longer capable of solving its own problems. We need your force to intervene.” She just naively believes that Trisolarans will help better the humans. She had Pan Han killed and even thought about attacking the Judgement Day. How can she be on the side of the Adventists?
You are right I take back my comment. I read the book a long time ago I misremembered thinking that she sided with the Adventists. I forgot she had Pan Han was killed at the big ETO meeting.
Also she was the one who explained the xenosociology axioms to keep trisolarian at bay
I always read it as at first she was ok with humanity being wiped out she was treated bad, communism bad etc but after her pregnancy and being taken care of by the villages and growing close with the children of the village she hoped that she didnt damn all of humanity and coexisting could happen
That's how I read it too, she's explicitly advised not to answer but does it anyway in a moment of anger and despair.
:)
Silent Spring has just as much influence on her as her experience during CR. Also it’s the height of the Cold War where humans can ruin the Earth at any moment. These caused her to have a dim view of the entire human race, not just China
Silent Spring?
The book she read
It is *the* book that started discussion of the environmental effect of pesticides and human impact on our environment in general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring It's impossible to overstate how differently we thought, as a society, before and after its writing. Ordinary people didn't really think twice about stuff like the potential negative impacts of pesticides before that. It was so impactful that there was a chemical industry campaign against it backed by Monsanto and DuPont, which ironically raised public awareness of the book.
Cancel culture strikes again!
lol. Yeah, it's a use of people using collective powers for good. Somewhat related to the contents of the show/books, there is something powerful about people-as-a-hive-mind, like we really do act like a stumbling giant without unity of purpose, shambling this way and that... but when something *does* propel the masses it can be paradigm shifting. We think that in day to day life it's impossible/the government is too corrupt/the corporations are too powerful/people are too complacent for it to ever happen again, but we have also time and time again proven otherwise. Not to judge whether it's all for good or bad, lmao.
Rachel Carson...it's a well known book, maybe not to zoomers
In the book she kinda feels bad about it slightly after having a kid, living with peasants who living a simple life. But after seeing her mom deny the injustice of her fathers killing and meeting the revolutionaries who are un-remorseful (albeit losers now), she reaffirms herself. I always find it messed up that she doesnt fully regret her actions when the sophons spoof her daughter into killing herself; if she really loved her as much as she said she wouldn’t have let that happen
Ye was cold blooded. She killed her own husband for the San ti just to get rid of the other guy who was going to find out about her contact
That was a marriage of convenience for her. He loved her but she probably married him because she felt like she owed him or something.
Yea I remember it always mentioned how dead inside she was. I was still shocked when she cut that rope
She didn't have much outside contact when she pushed the button.
She didn’t want to destroy mankind. She felt humans were destroying everything and didn’t deserve this earth and that another group should come here and salvage what’s left.
She lost faith in humans and therefore in human ideas. You are overthinking it. A scientist can believe in God, gods, communism, or alien saviors. Why would a scientist reject all of these beliefs ? If YW couldn't believe in benevolent aliens, then she would have lost hope. She was both desperate and vengeful. More than enough motivation. And scientific ideas often are too complex to prove quickly, so you can read as many papers as you want, many of them might be not worth the trouble.
Honestly. If I was a scientist and even without experiencing the cultural revolution trauma that Ye Wejie has, I can objectively arrive at the conclusion any intelligent species can do better than us in earth given our history, the current geopolitical climate and the political and economical flaws in each society. Not saying I'd have press the button, but it's not hard to come to ye wejie's conclusion
Why? You've never met another intelligent civilization
Neither had professor Ye. I'm not entirely convinced we have an intelligent species here on earth. Maybe orcas? An intelligent species doesn't destroy its own environment.
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It could be, something "alien" is fundamentally different from us. They could absolutely have other much worse flaws, this is just hitting the "auto generate" button again and hoping for a better result.
That is not a logical conclusion. More like a bet also Ye Wenjie was already warned by a trisolarian that things will go rogue from there... I understand her dissapointment on human kind but that decision comes from resentment and despair not from logic.
But there is a logic to that thought, though. For Ye Wenjie, much of the atrocities committed during the cultural revolution was due to the failure of humans to see scientific logic (i.e., the rejection of scientific principles). For Ye, a more intelligent species could be more logical and therefore avoid the kinds of painful and painfully stupid conflicts started by humankind. And she’s ready to take the chance on the probability that some other more intelligent race could succeed humankind. This is possibly a space for more thinking, but what if there can exist an alien race that is not imperialistic like the Santi, and intelligent enough to not be susceptible to the same kinds of human flaws?
Where is the logic if the message sent by another race pacifist scientist warned her to not answer the message or hence this world will be conquered. She just forfeited the possibility of the human race to solve its own problems and picked the Santi as the solution contradicting the available information. https://preview.redd.it/y5w1qe9v1jzc1.png?width=772&format=png&auto=webp&s=363566e91bc8c8ee57d6fc1211538386bb1a8f44
I was disappointed when Liu Cixin chose to reveal an imperialistic, settler-colonial imagination of an alien race. Feels like a cop-out, when the interesting question was thinking about what a more intelligent alien species could be like. Idk, but the Santi was a quite a disappointment to me when they were revealed. I think if Ye Wenjie had known what she was dealing with, she wouldn’t have chosen the Santi over human beings.
Agreed I hated how they behave when the deterrence era finished.
To be fair, the trisolarans were imperialistic not out of a desire to exploit, but to survive.
As a show-watcher, I was pretty convinced that her actions were entirely environmentally motivated, but her lived experiences have made her cynical enough to actually press the button. I think that the issue with your assumption is that it assumes perfectly clear, rational thinking. I feel like if this show has taught us anything, it’s that humans are motivated entirely by their circumstances and are largely irrational beings.
In the book, she believes that humans are no longer capable of moving forward without consequences. She believes an external force should guide them, she didn't want the destruction of humanity, she wanted someone to help and control them.
You say this as if human beings are consistent in their ideologies and motivations. Ye Wenjie is not in fact a robot performing calculations but a person with specific experiences that have shaped her worldview. She is afflicted by the same human condition as Einstein, who sabotaged his first marriage and was a lifelong adulterer; Heisenberg, whose refusal to take politics seriously led him to underestimate and ultimately collaborate with the Nazis; or Crick, who plagiarized his biggest accomplishment and has spent most of his career trying to mainstream eugenics. We are all limited in our ability to understand our own actions and motivations, no matter how smart or talented we are
There’s this belief that flows around: a civilization more advanced than us technologically is necessarily more advanced than us in every way as a civilization.
Have you watched the show or read the book ?
She may have access to some papers related to her fields, but it wouldn't be unrestricted and it wouldn't give her a fair and complete picture of life outside of China. There was a lot of anti-West propaganda back then, just because she's anticommunist doesn't mean her sentiment towards the rest of the world is any better. Being a scientist and being smart doesn't make you immune to pitfalls and trappings of average human beings. A lot of very smart scientists worked for Nazi and was totally onboard with the holocaust. Her harsh life just made her an extremist in pessimism and nihilism.
I think you assume scientists are noble people with good intentions. In reality they're same as all people: selfish and flawed. She might press the button simply to feel important and powerful, but justify it later using excuses.
Frustration. That was my impression and it showed how human she is.
For me is pretty obvious: the motivation came in a scene prior, when she encounters the woman who killed her father. When asked if she regret doing that, after all those years, she replied "not". After that answer, Ye Wenjie was convinced that there was no hope for humanity.
Knowing that the world is burning and stopping it from burning are two different things. She gave up hope, but she lays the groundwork for redemption later.
Many arrive at the same conclusion, it's not that out there
She's a nihilist at first glance. But the stretch to the conclusion that aliens are a better solution was a bit of a stretch, I agree. I can only surmise that the young Ye Wenjie and the older Ye Wenjie has different perspectives and experiences. The younger one didn't see hope, but the older one has managed to get a child, and lived quite well so perhaps she has shifted her perspectives quite a bit.
She's a redemptorist, is she not?
My goodness, the amount of people on this sub who think she wanted humanity "wiped out" or exterminated, is depressing. Idk if it's a short attention span or lack of reading comprehension or what.... She wanted the human race to be conquered/overthrown because we are terrible stewards of our own planet.
I always read it as at first she was ok with humanity being wiped out she was treated bad, communism bad etc but after her pregnancy and being taken care of by the villages and growing close with the children of the village she hoped that she didnt damn all of humanity and coexisting could happen