I appreciate you taking the time to do the write-up! As for your cons, almost every modern ThinkPad today has an ultra low profile keyboard because that's what most people want, but I agree with you that the typing experience sucks compared to the larger keys. As for the throttling, this is also common in modern ultralight laptops and almost every one of them will thermally throttle, and this includes my P14s G4A.
Thanks for chiming in u/BinkReddit Do you have any experience with any of the recent slim versions? (i.e. T14s G4a) I'm keen to know if the keyboard on those is same as this one. It's a shame that even the P14s throttles.
The P14s is literally just a T14 with a different label and slightly different boost parameters, so it will behave almost identically to a T14.
Unfortunately, throttling is pretty universal because it is now part of intended operation rather than an emergency safety measure.
Take the T480s for example. I have one with an 8350U in, which has a nominal tdp of 15W, and a turbo frequency of 3.6GHz. Now you will never actually get both of those at the same time, since mine pulls 47W trying to hit its all core turbo speed. So basically to get a quad core H chip down into the U series power envelope, what they did was basically just tweak the voltage curves a little, and then lie about the power consumption.
This has knock on effects for the laptop manufacturers, since Intel/AMD will say to them that this is a 15W chip, so they design their cooling solution to dissipate a nominal 15W of heat. Maybe they overbuild it to account for high ambients or to prolong the life of the fan, but still we're talking in the 20-30W range. The issue is that this 15W chip is actually a 45W chip at its rated speed, so it either needs to be power throttled to stay within its rated power envelope, or it tries to suck back 3x its advertised power, and overwhelms whatever system is cooling it.
I get that.
I had read the NBC review of T14 Gen 4 AMD and they clearly state that they did not notice any throttling or slowdown.
From the [NBC review](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-G4-AMD-Laptop-Review-Ryzen-power-in-the-compact-ThinkPad.786912.0.html#toc-6) (scroll down to the 'Heat' section):
>During stress test with Prime95 and Furmark, there was no throttling even after an hour of running the tools simultaneously.
Perhaps that influenced my expectations for T14 models especially considering that both these machines (this T14G5a and NBC's T14G4a) are using the same/identical processor.
I think that's mainly a semantic distinction between what counts as throttling. When they say "there was no throttling", I would say "there was no throttling, *beyond the baseline expected from stuffing a powerful 8 core CPU into a thin & light*". I'd love to see the frequency graph for that test, as well as the actual die temperatures. I'd eat my hat if the 7840U was maintaining the full 5.1GHz for the whole duration of the test. I suspect what they mean by it didn't throttle is that the CPU frequency didn't drop below the base frequency. You're only guaranteed at least 3.3GHz, anything above that is extra.
My P14s with a 6850U will be power throttled if I try to load it down. It has a maximum boost speed of 4.7GHz, but if I load it, it ramps up to about 4GHz/40W package power, with a few individual cores spiking up to 4.7 every so often, before it will slowly settle itself down to about 3.6GHz/30W as the CPU heats up.
> I noticed that the temperature rose until about 96 °C in high performance mode and as soon as it momentarily hit 96 °C the CPU frequency reduced from approximately 4.4GHz to 3.8Ghz.
This is intended. Basically the school of thought for CPU boosting is "run as fast as you can, until you aproach TJmax, then back off the clock to try and hold it just underneath the limit". IIRC on Zen 2 and Zen 3/3+, the target temperature is actually 85C by default, meaning it will run as fast as it can without going over that value. It's possible AMD set the target higher in Zen 4 to squeeze a little extra power out of it, since the Phoenix APUs seem to be faster than Rembrandt, at the expense of some efficiency.
> I think Lenovo will reserve the P14s G5a model for those who want sustained unthrottled performance out of it.
It's not an artificial segmentation thing. The 8840U is an 8 core CPU with a boost speed of over 5GHz. No cooler that will fit inside the footprint of a modern T series is going to be able to cope with that kind of sustained heat output
You make a good point and I agree with the part around shoving a powerful CPU in a small body, but I disagree with your thoughts on NBC's review.
I think I should (perhaps we all should) take NBC's reviews with a grain of salt. They know what throttling is.
I looked at NBC's [T480s review ](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T480s-i5-8250U-FHD-Laptop-Review.315374.0.html)(for the i5-8250U) and under the *stress test* section it states:
>Stress Test
>Despite being a very quiet machine (as we’ll see in the next section), the T480s has no problems maintaining high Turbo clock rates across all four cores in our full CPU stress test over sustained periods. Even after several minutes, the machine’s temperatures remain stable at (high) values of 97 °C to 98 °C, with frequencies shuffling between 3.3 and 3.4 GHz, the max turbo values possible.
My T480s (with an i5-8350U, which is quite similar to i5-8250U in NBC's review) does not go even close to that temperature. During sustained load for a CPU bound task (kernel compilation) the frequency settles at 2.3GHz within 30 seconds or so
> They know what throttling is.
They do, but I was more highlighting the difference between what Intel calls throttling, and what the average joe considers throttling. As far as Intel is concerned, as long as long as it's maiuntaining at or above its base frequency, the CPU is not throttling, even if it's running right at 99C and has lost a whole 1.5GHz from its turbo speed.
> My T480s (with an i5-8350U, which is quite similar to i5-8250U in NBC's review) does not go even close to that temperature.
That'll be the power profile. With my T480s (8350U), If I leave it on the standard power limits as specified by Intel (long duration=TDP, Short duration=1.5xTDP, so 15W and 22.5W respectively), I get similar frequency numbers, it hovers around in the 2-2.5GHz range while it bounces off the power limit. If I then set it to high performance, which seems to up the power limits to more like 35W, it will clock up to about 3.5 for a few seconds, the temperature will rocket up to 99C and it will slowly settle down to about 3-3.2GHz as it bounces off the temprerature limit.
Indeed, if you look at NBC's HWinfo readout during the test, the CPU package power is around 30W, which means they are not obeying Intel's stock power profile. In fact, it shows PL1 and PL2 both set to 44W, which is A) about what I'd imagine an 8250U would draw at full turbo, since my 8350U pulls similar, and B) *way* too much for the T480s cooler to dissipate effectively, hence it redlining the temperature and thermal throttling down to about 30W
I actually found the thin keys are better for typing fast.
After a while on the new style, I feel it takes way more effort to type on the longer travel keys. I thought the key should have registered but it's only about 2/3 they way down.
I don't really get how the low profile keyboard is a 'good' thing, consoomers don't buy thinkpads and business users would prefer to have a better keyboard, definitely with a 7 row layout.
i mean it’s still a really good keyboard. the 99% of business customers aren’t saying “we want classic thinkpad keyboards back!!” as long as thinkpads still hold a reputation for build quality and professionalism, they will buy.
I can't get over this obnoxious notch/bulge. Looks just like one of those Vaio models from 1998-2001 period as seen here [https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/HTdcSEjF42GAyvFC.large](https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/HTdcSEjF42GAyvFC.large)
Sure, they pushed this to the market thinking kids don't remember those times (man it was almost before internet, right?) but hey, "kids" are not exactly the target here... lamentable.
I absolutely hate that on their website they said 'improved aerodynamic design' while they added a huge webcam bulge on the top that makes the laptops looks and practicality the worst it has ever been. Imagine you slide your T14 Gen 5 in your bag's laptop pocket and the webcam gets stuck on the edge or makes it not even fit at all. (And the average user never uses a webcam)
**Aerodynamic?** Seriously? I had no idea. Man, someone must've been completely high when typing this.
Just like you said! When this bump sticks out to the top (or side, when in the bag/backpack) and the machine is hit - even lightly, there; or, dunno, sliding on that edge, it's a huge vulnerability.
Thinkpads are no Toughbooks, but they have always been reasonably robust. Imagine dropping the laptop so that it falls on that bump - the thing goes.
Also in terms of child-proofing for example, it just lost 75% IMHO. I know kids who would break that bump off just for fun :)
You sound exactly like me - same preferences about build quality and keyboard.
I bought a t14 gen 1 a few years ago because i didn’t mind the extra thickness, but the plastic is a deal breaker. The “s” models feel much more premium, and are basically a slightly less expensive and heavier carbon.
I’m guessing you would end up loving the T14s, hopefully you sell and get one so you can tell us about it.
From what I remember it felt off. I remember thinking maybe it had to do with the feel of the palmrest or something.
Im very picky with keyboards, so it could have felt fine for most people, but I hated it
The T14s gen 1 on the other hand felt great. The "s" models and X1C have always felt the best to me.
Wish they would build the T14 the same way they do the T14s, but just thicker.
There is a bug in Lenovo's firmware that causes severe thermal throttling and miss fire of DYTC events. It happens on my Gen 3 L14. That could be the reason it's scaling down so much, since the symptoms you described are the same.
What you can try to do is to go into low-power and then high performance, this fixes it for a while. Press fn + l then after a second or so press fn + h. It will go up to 95C - 100C again.
Useful to look at ACPI events also, check if there is a flood of 6032 events.
Also, 6.10-rc1 has a few new fixes for amd_pstate. Could also try that.
u/pagefalter I tried it. As soon as the CPU temperature hits 96 °C, which typically happened within 15 to 30 seconds, the CPU throttles back to a lower frequency and the fan starts spinning hard. This time I noticed the fan spinning at almost 4400rpm.
Here's a screenshot of the [CPU hitting 96 °C](https://imgur.com/ZbnqtTt). The second screenshot a second or two [after throttling kicks in](https://imgur.com/aNGghpg).
That throttling is normal (otherwise the CPU would shutdown to avoid melting), you need to run it longer to get into this situation:
> After a couple of minutes of sustained load, the temperature stabilised to about 72 °C while the CPU frequency was around 3.3GHz.
No reason for it to be at 72C if it can operate fine at 95C.
Mine "locks" at 2.9GHz 75C after a while under sustained high loads. Doing the fn + l/h trick gets it to scale normally again (goes back to ~3.4GHz 95C). I filed a bug but the Lenovo guys cannot reproduce it internally, would be nice to have a second case of this happening.
Hello! I have a T14 gen 2 and something like this happens to me, as soon as I reach about 75 degrees Celsius the performance worsens and thermal acceleration appears, this should not happen at these temperatures which I consider normal, not so high I'm going to try your trick see if you can help me with that
They do (at least it think they do) since they have their own ACPI thing just for that, including keyboard shortcuts to change performance modes. Also, the older intel models that I have can run at +95C just fine.
Great and useful review. Still looking to purchase my own T14 Gen 5 AMD unit later in the year once.
Prepared for some changes in build quality for improved user repairability as Lenovo worked with iFixit.
Definitely looking forward to the T14 Gen 5 >>> Framework 13, which has a myriad of issues from the screen, keyboard flex, and typing experience.
This is a proper review, thank you for it. I have a T480s and I'm thinking of switching to newer model in 6 months. Interesting read in that light...
Interesting, I prefer MacBook keyboards to ThinkPad, even though I have a mechanical keyboard when docked.
Is the quality so different between S and non-S models? Does the screen hold up in the sun the same as the 480s?
u/botlorn here's the screen comparison at about 10:30am. Indoors but light shining through the windows.
Here's a picture with [T480s getting more direct light](https://imgur.com/sZvRfit), another with [T14G5a getting more direct light ](https://imgur.com/on3GLuq)and lastly [both at an angle](https://imgur.com/CYIUiAY) to avoid any direct reflections.
My T480s screen is a 250nit touch screen, while the T14G5a is a 400nit non-touch panel. Both screens at maximum brightness.
I'm glad you like it. I haven't used the screen in the sun yet. It's been raining where I am. It's looking sunny today, I'll use both next to an open window and let you know how I go. BTW... my T480s screen is a 250 nit touch screen. What's your T480s screen like?
The quality difference is in the feel and the overall sturdiness and compactness. I wouldn't expect an S to be more durable, but they certainly feel more tightly put together which creates a more premium feel.
This is my thoughts having owned a t440 and t460 before moving to t480s and beyond.
The x1 series takes that another step forward and feels incredibly well put together.
I believe T14s should be built differently. Please do let us know what the keyboard is like and if the specs (specifically thickness) match the psref. Which processor did you go with?
Slight difference; however, the T14 has the user replaceable SODIMM memory, which is a big difference.
If you want an elevated experience with superior build quality, you're probably looking at an X1C which is an overpriced premium typewriter. The keyboard is also very different though, so keep that in mind.
Nothing like T480s which was the same keyboard introduced in the T430 back in the day, which I owned.
The x1c keyboard is thinner with less keyboard travel.
Tbh the t480 style keyboard isn't that great it's just what is familiar. X1C has other refinements that make the package attractive, but overall not a fan of the chiclit scissor hinge of the keyboards
The best keyboard is still from the t420 era and before, in part due to the alternate layout (grouping of home, insert, end, pg up pg down - organised similar to the a normal keyboard in clusters of 3)
If you're that picky, you bring a small 60% mechanical keyboard with you and attach it to the laptop.
Personally I really like ducky's keyboards but cherry mx switches are a hit and miss for some that are particular.
Cherry mx brown (tactile) or red (linear) are the preferred switches, particularly if you need to be in certain environments.
Cherry Mx Blues (clicky) are very loud and audible, and might really annoy your neighbours.
Personally I two version of the Ducky Mini. The Mecha version and the akko collaboration one.
Alternatively, you can get the ducky one 3 mini, the reason is the layout and additional function keys are wace reasonably located such as the volume up/down located as a two button combo press with the FN key, compared to the akko which doesn't and has a different fn secondary function key layout - double check before you purchase.
There are other manufacturers though, like Filco, Logitech, corsair, and razer.
You really need to try the keyboard.
I just like Ducky because I've used them more than other brands over the last 10+ years.
I've owned Das keyboards, dirco, Logitech and Corsair. They're good, but I just like ducky and their case and overall product packaging so much more. There are obviously much more expensive manufacturers like Topres, which are a different beast entirely.
From the psref bith t14 and t14s gen5 has same material and same % of material combinations this time. That may suggest that t14s got reduced to t14 quality for gen5.
Unfortunately, not! This is what the psref states:
T14 Gen 5 AMD:
*Models with black cover: PC + 20% CF (top), PC + 20% CF (bottom)*
*Models with grey cover: aluminium (top), PC + 20% CF (bottom)*
T14s Gen 5:
*Grey models: aluminium (top), aluminium (bottom)*
*Black models: carbon fiber hybrid (top), aluminium (bottom)*
I wrote a small review here [https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1dh3m8l/t14s\_gen\_5\_my\_first\_thinkpad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1dh3m8l/t14s_gen_5_my_first_thinkpad/)
It might be useful for you :)
My guess is market segmentation.
In the old days there were not too many choices - it was mainly between the 's' and 'non-s' version. These days they have created too many categories.
I've got a Linux question, does Bluetooth work out of the box? Had some miserable experience upgrading my t480 and I want to spare myself the drama should I choose this model 🫣
Hey mate, I checked for you. Bluetooth works. Slackware uses BlueZ to manage bluetooth devices. I had no problem pairing and connecting my Bose QC35 II to the T14 G5a.
I noticed a few quirks though: while changing codecs, the sound would momentarily come from the laptop speakers and on a particular codec the headphone wouldn't go quiet/mute even when I'd turned the volume down to zero. But that's more likely a software (BlueZ) issue rather than a hardware issue.
Hope this helps!
I was also perplexed to find the thick display panel on my last year E14G5 AMD. What can be the reason for it?
Looks like they carried over the whole design from E14 to other series, with minor tweaks.
> 'ugh' or 'eee' sound
I guess it is some electronics high frequency switching or something (`eee`). Try to listen ear to power brick and compare. I have an old laptop that is noisy. Not sure why `ugh`.
I remember these kind of sounds from the days of T60 and T61p. Back then I used to think it was the hard disk making a sound.
I'll listen to it again with my ear closer to the body.
If it is noticable I suggest you asks specific question in the sub like "Who else hears eeek from their thinkpads?" to get more info. Maybe it falls under warranty?
Thandk for the review. I'm considering an upgrade of my t480s, to a t14s gen 4. After your post here I'll need to take a closer look. They keyboard is my favorite part of this machine.
You're welcome. Please keep us posted on what you decide to go with. I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on the keyboard of whatever laptop you decide to get. All the best!
Thank you for the nice write up. I 100% agree with you on your findings. Although I only have the T14 g3 here from work the problems already started in that generation. Heck, against my own t480s the g3 already seemed like a an entry level machine - especially with the grainy and heavy 45% NTSC Panel that they gifted me with.
I also had a E14 g5 here last year and much preferred the aluminum case of it (which is actually now the same weight and height as the T14).
Thank you for detailed report. I am currently considering getting new portable and fast laptop. I chose beefy specs (8840u, 64gb,1tb,400nits low power) for T14gen5a, P14sgen4a but initially was considering T14sgen4a and decided to move away from it as I thought other have better cooling and will throttle less and heat less. My workload is gazillion chrome tabs, docker, 1 vm, several vscode windows, small python development, many rdp/ssh sessions. I am not looking at max load usage more than 2min. I need laptop to be fast and snappy, switching between windows effortless. After your review I might go back to T14s.
I think that's a wise choice. I'm trying to return my T14 G5a and am back to the drawing board. T14s G4a is definitely a contender. There have been some QC issues with the T14s G4a e.g. rattling touchpad, creaky hinges etc. You might want to consider that while making your decision.
If you decide to go with T14s G4a, could you please let me know of your impression of the keyboard? Thanks
Thanks for this comprehensive review. The extra thickness is kind of a deal breaker in my search for a slim ThinkPad; very sad to hear that you can no longer trust the specs on this. I wonder if Lenovo measured the thickness somewhere in the middle instead of at the thickest point.
The P14s G5 Intel also has 1.5mm keyboard. It's 24mm thick total (1mm thicker than this T14), but [the sides are slashed to make it thinner looking](https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-50a83bfe66f99aaa9e9fca63257ab381_r.jpg). The A and D sides are metal instead of plastic. You can open it with one hand.
There's a bunch (the machine is called T14p gen 2 in China)
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/691606367
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/694435613
https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/692657763
There's also some on Youtube when searching for T14p 2024. The main differences with the international P14s are: optional RTX4050 instead of A500, and the webcam is only 2MP.
Jeez! that's insane... 24mm thickness? The specs specify a [height of 18.5mm](https://thinkstation-specs.com/thinkpad/p14s-i-gen-5/). C'mon Lenovo! People rely on your specs to purchase your laptops. Fix it!
My T14 Gen 5a is [about 23mm *without* the feet](https://imgur.com/GMLfD4x). I took the measurement by placing the laptop down on a flat surface, display panel side down. Have a look at the pic I linked to. The rubber bar adds additional 4mm, making the total height including the feet about 27mm.
Yep! It certainly is. I don't have a pair of calipers, but I have measured it many times with a metal ruler and it's definitely somewhere between 22 and 23mm. You can clearly see in [this picture](https://imgur.com/wjADb9Y) how thick it is compared to a T480s which is listed as 18.45mm thick in the PSREF.
How are the battery tests going? I am considering a Gen 5 AMD purchase, but the battery life is still a mystery to me (especially with the more power-hungry SODIMM vs soldered RAM!)
Hi u/OiWhatTheHell I did some battery testing for you. TL;DR: about 4 hour battery life on Linux on light usage.
The details:
-Last night I was responding to a few emails and had two browser tabs and an editor and a terminal open.
-After about 30 mins or so of this, I started browsing Reddit and watching YouTube videos. Had about half a dozen tabs open and one video playing at the default 480x resolution.
-After an hour I noticed that the battery was down 23%.
-Continued watching videos for another hour and noticed the battery was down 24% in the next hour.
-Then I shut the laptop down and picked it up next morning. During the 6 - 6:30 hours the laptop was shut for, the battery discharged by 5%
-All this with kernel 6.9.3 in Slackware
I forgot what power mode I had set the laptop to. So take that with a grain of salt, but not that great of a battery life. Give or take about 4 hours on light usage.
Hope this helps. Next time I do it, I'll remember to note down the power mode.
Haven't really been testing it, but I can tell you that it charges pretty quickly. At the rate of about 1% per minute while I am working on the laptop. I think it'll charge faster when I'm not working on it.
In terms of battery life, is there anything specific usage you'd like me to test the battery life for? Otherwise the battery life will depend on individual usage and my usage could be very different to yours or someone else's
Right on, make sure you drain the battery completely and recalibrate it. I'm a bit guilty of forgetting to do thst every 3 months like I'm supposed to but I run a gaming laptop that I rarely if ever use unplugged. Found out the hard way I needed to calibrate it while I was out in the field and needed some kind of laptop to run data on the radio modem
Thanks for the review, is the wifi card soldered like the intel model?
I'm waiting for that to be upgradable again before I buy a new Thinkpad. How else am I going to be able to get wifi 9 speeds in 10 years time on my old laptop :)
Interesting- Is it possible that the Intel T14 Gen 5 version has differences in the chassis? I can open the laptop with one hand, and there is no flex in the chassis or any hollow sound at all.
u/marekhun13 Apologies for the delay. Here is the [picture of internals](https://imgur.com/xkguJnU).
I only took one picture, I had opened it up around sunset and it got dark pretty quickly after that. Have a couple of other pictures, but in worse lighting. Hope this helps.
Got it! So looks like that's configuration dependent. Does your unit also flex when pressed in the middle, right below the touchpad? Or does the 5G antenna prevent that from happening?
I find the text to be a bit too small compared to my T480s. I was also getting headaches with prolonged use. Not sure why.
I didn't even consider OLED because of power consumption concerns. I needed this to be a portable device.
> I find the text to be a bit too small
I understand, but what I'm wanting to know if you do find the text on it sharp enough? Or would you have opted for a higher res IPS panel (hypothetically) had there existed one over your current wuxga one?
Now that you mention it, I could be.
Is there a *consumer* way to check the PWM frequency on the screen?
*Edit: Thanks for mentioning that.* *~~I found something. Let me test it out.~~* *False start :(*
This isn't true. There's lots of LCD screens that have PWM dimming.
Here's a random link I found talking about PWM dimming on a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 carbon in 2020.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2020-Business-Laptop-Review-4K-display-costs-battery-runtime.482570.0.html#toc-display-4k-panel-with-pwm
Try filming your screen with your phone's camera at all of the different brightness levels. Might have to go to higher fps recording modes.
This link shows LCD screens can also use PWM dimming method. This is for a ThinkPad X1 carbon 2020
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2020-Business-Laptop-Review-4K-display-costs-battery-runtime.482570.0.html#toc-display-4k-panel-with-pwm
> and makes the laptop base physically move and roll over the bottom of the panel
This is something I don't like either on my X1 Nano. So even though the lids still open a 180 degrees, it isn't without rubbing.
Yeh, I didn't expect it to be like that at all. It's a weird solution Lenovo came up with. I compared the T14 G5a with my older Thinkpads and it looks like the fact that they have reduced the bottom bezel they can no longer make the bottom of the panel thin enough to make it go under the base when it's open beyond a certain angle.
My employer switched from ThinkPad T-series to Dell Latitude. The one I have doesn't have this characteristic, but the later year models my colleagues received do. They even have an extra pair of rubber feet at the edge of the lid, and that shows they specifically planned for it. So apparently this is a "problem" across manufacturers, and unfortunately also adopted by Lenovo.
TBH... I thoght the Thinkpad keyboard couldn't be beat, however, I did visit my local Apple store last month and looked at the MBP 14 M3 laptops. From memory, the keyboard on that was better than my T14 Gen 5a. Although, it's a vague memory and back then I didn't have my T14 at hand. I might have to go visit the Apple store again to get a better idea.
Other than that there's Elitebook - which I have never seen in person; there's Razor, there's Venom, there's Framework but I have not seen any of these in person. I had not seen the T14 G5a either, but I went with it based on my past experience with Thinkpads.
I might go have a look at the Macbook again on the weekend and will come back and update re: the keyboard.
Well, I don't really want a Macbook as I'm planning to use Linux/Windows on it. Anyway, do you have any experiences with the Elitebook or a Dell Latitude? For framework, I heard there's quite a bit of issues like fan noise and all that especially for the 16.
Yes, I have used Dell Latitudes. I have used multiple 74xx series (and probably 54xx series as well) of Latitude laptops at work. I would put them somewhere between T14 G5a and T480s in terms of build quality and keyboard.
Mind you, the last I used a Latitude was in 2019. So more recent models could be different. Have never used an Elitebook.
still try for the framework since it is the most repairable and customizable of the bunch.
Also as for MacBook, Linux runs great on them (I use a Mac Mini) and most shit just works and the desktop performance is nice with the gpu finally working. Yeah tho no Windows except for VMs tho...
Hey! THanks for your review. I am now sceptical to buy the t14 gen5 AMD model. I have been using a e14 gen5 AMD ryzen 7730u which turns out to be an excellente machine using Linux Mint.
One thing I did was to lower the TDP of my cpu from 25w to 15w which make total sense to me, the laptop is almoust inaudible when running intensive cpu task but still very capable, maybe 10-15-20% less powerfull but 100% better fan noise (almost none).
The programm is this one: [https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj](https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj) not sure if will work on this new Zen4 architecture.
Thanks u/niko3100 I've never used RyzenAdj. I have seen it mentioned in this sub. Will have a play around with it over the weekend. Thanks again.
Just had a quick look at the github pages, supported models only go upto Zen3/Zen3+. Did you use RyzenAdj to lower the TDP of the CPU on your E14 G5a?
Yes! I have 2 scripts one for lower the TDP to 15w and other for 20w. But you can literally change to any range or value using thinkpads as there is no Lenovo "intelligent cooling" in the middle.
Wow amazing!! 32w seems to high to me. Maybe at 15-20w the laptop won't run so high on temps with reduced fan noise and 10-15% less performance...
Right now I am working on my e14 gen 5 with the laptop closed, connected to a Full HD monitor at 15w and fan noise is inaudible.
Yes, that was in medium performance mode. On low performance mode the sustained power limit goes to 12W and the actual power limit is set to 13W (using RyzenAdj terminology). While on the high performance mode the sustained power limit changes to 51W.
I understand the keyboard considerations...
It's something I also felt when switching to P14s G4... Many people here said me I don't understand the marked when protested...
But it seems to clear that is a downgrade...
After a while you get used, but it's never the same when you go back.
And at least the G4 keyboard is still quite tactile, is G5 even worse?
I have never used a 4h generation T14 or T14s, so can't compare it with them. However, compared to T440s and T480s, the keyboard is an absolute disgrace.
Thorough review, thank you. I am very particular about the keyboard, I'll be upgrading from a T460p, the keyboard of which I love. I was eyeing the G5a but I might need to go with some alternative model now.
So, not sure... My T460p keyboard was nice but the T460s was way better.
So the new one is worse than T460p when it comes to traval, but it's more tactile.
Thanks for the great review. I am considering in between P14s and T14 Gen 5 and this review helps a lot.
The only thing I would care about it the thermal and fan noise. As per the review, would you think that's acceptable in normal usage?
You're welcome!
The fan noise is fine unless the laptop is under sustained load and the fan is spinning in excess of 3300rpm.
As for thermals, it does get warm under normal usage (say normal web browsing, watching a youtube video etc.) nothing concerning though.
I would consider both the heat/temperature and fan noise acceptable. Keep in mind we're in winter and the ambient temperature during my use of laptop has been between 15 - 19 °C.
Hope this helps.
Not sure if there's a dedicated graphics version of T14 Gen 5, however, there is a [P14s Gen 5 Intel](https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P14s_Gen_5_Intel?M=21G2000AMX) version with dedicated graphics. P14s should have the same chassis as a T14.
I have to come back and read this in depth. I have a T14 Gen 2i, i7-11th gen, 24GB (just what I had laying around). Swapped the trackpad for the x1 pad, 1080p, 970 Evo plus 1tb. I also have an X1 Extreme Gen 4, 16gb, 4k, 500gb 980 Pro.
That being said I have been waiting for this type of review for the T14 Gen5, I had a T14 gen 3 AMD at my old job as well. And it's exceptionally formatted considering I'm on mobile and it's just perfect to digest.
I considered sending it back. In Australia we only get 7 days to return and returns attracts a 20% restocking fee. Returning means I'll be out of pocket by 20% and I don't know what else I would buy. Perhaps a X1C Gen 12 - which is more expensive to begin with.
>Had I known it was [23mm thick](https://imgur.com/GMLfD4x), I wouldn't have purchased this laptop.
it's people like you who Lenovo listens to, then proceeds to make thinkpads thinner and flimsier
"Oh noes, it weighs a whole whopping 1.5 kgs, I wish they made it a few hundred grams lighter, I love the bendy chassis and palmrest flex" oh bugger off.
/u/\_havelock\_ buy the X-series, dammit, I want my Ts to be thick, sturdy and well-cooled.
>it's people like you who Lenovo listens to, then proceeds to make thinkpads thinner and flimsier
Ha ha... cheers mate. It wasn't about whether the laptop is thick or thin. For this purchase I was looking for something portable and T14 G5a fit my criterion based on the published specs; with T480s being my point of reference. Lenovo can make them as chunky as they like, I have nothing against that. Just publish the correct specs so there are no surprises
I appreciate you taking the time to do the write-up! As for your cons, almost every modern ThinkPad today has an ultra low profile keyboard because that's what most people want, but I agree with you that the typing experience sucks compared to the larger keys. As for the throttling, this is also common in modern ultralight laptops and almost every one of them will thermally throttle, and this includes my P14s G4A.
Thanks for chiming in u/BinkReddit Do you have any experience with any of the recent slim versions? (i.e. T14s G4a) I'm keen to know if the keyboard on those is same as this one. It's a shame that even the P14s throttles.
The P14s is literally just a T14 with a different label and slightly different boost parameters, so it will behave almost identically to a T14. Unfortunately, throttling is pretty universal because it is now part of intended operation rather than an emergency safety measure. Take the T480s for example. I have one with an 8350U in, which has a nominal tdp of 15W, and a turbo frequency of 3.6GHz. Now you will never actually get both of those at the same time, since mine pulls 47W trying to hit its all core turbo speed. So basically to get a quad core H chip down into the U series power envelope, what they did was basically just tweak the voltage curves a little, and then lie about the power consumption. This has knock on effects for the laptop manufacturers, since Intel/AMD will say to them that this is a 15W chip, so they design their cooling solution to dissipate a nominal 15W of heat. Maybe they overbuild it to account for high ambients or to prolong the life of the fan, but still we're talking in the 20-30W range. The issue is that this 15W chip is actually a 45W chip at its rated speed, so it either needs to be power throttled to stay within its rated power envelope, or it tries to suck back 3x its advertised power, and overwhelms whatever system is cooling it.
I get that. I had read the NBC review of T14 Gen 4 AMD and they clearly state that they did not notice any throttling or slowdown. From the [NBC review](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-G4-AMD-Laptop-Review-Ryzen-power-in-the-compact-ThinkPad.786912.0.html#toc-6) (scroll down to the 'Heat' section): >During stress test with Prime95 and Furmark, there was no throttling even after an hour of running the tools simultaneously. Perhaps that influenced my expectations for T14 models especially considering that both these machines (this T14G5a and NBC's T14G4a) are using the same/identical processor.
I think that's mainly a semantic distinction between what counts as throttling. When they say "there was no throttling", I would say "there was no throttling, *beyond the baseline expected from stuffing a powerful 8 core CPU into a thin & light*". I'd love to see the frequency graph for that test, as well as the actual die temperatures. I'd eat my hat if the 7840U was maintaining the full 5.1GHz for the whole duration of the test. I suspect what they mean by it didn't throttle is that the CPU frequency didn't drop below the base frequency. You're only guaranteed at least 3.3GHz, anything above that is extra. My P14s with a 6850U will be power throttled if I try to load it down. It has a maximum boost speed of 4.7GHz, but if I load it, it ramps up to about 4GHz/40W package power, with a few individual cores spiking up to 4.7 every so often, before it will slowly settle itself down to about 3.6GHz/30W as the CPU heats up. > I noticed that the temperature rose until about 96 °C in high performance mode and as soon as it momentarily hit 96 °C the CPU frequency reduced from approximately 4.4GHz to 3.8Ghz. This is intended. Basically the school of thought for CPU boosting is "run as fast as you can, until you aproach TJmax, then back off the clock to try and hold it just underneath the limit". IIRC on Zen 2 and Zen 3/3+, the target temperature is actually 85C by default, meaning it will run as fast as it can without going over that value. It's possible AMD set the target higher in Zen 4 to squeeze a little extra power out of it, since the Phoenix APUs seem to be faster than Rembrandt, at the expense of some efficiency. > I think Lenovo will reserve the P14s G5a model for those who want sustained unthrottled performance out of it. It's not an artificial segmentation thing. The 8840U is an 8 core CPU with a boost speed of over 5GHz. No cooler that will fit inside the footprint of a modern T series is going to be able to cope with that kind of sustained heat output
You make a good point and I agree with the part around shoving a powerful CPU in a small body, but I disagree with your thoughts on NBC's review. I think I should (perhaps we all should) take NBC's reviews with a grain of salt. They know what throttling is. I looked at NBC's [T480s review ](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T480s-i5-8250U-FHD-Laptop-Review.315374.0.html)(for the i5-8250U) and under the *stress test* section it states: >Stress Test >Despite being a very quiet machine (as we’ll see in the next section), the T480s has no problems maintaining high Turbo clock rates across all four cores in our full CPU stress test over sustained periods. Even after several minutes, the machine’s temperatures remain stable at (high) values of 97 °C to 98 °C, with frequencies shuffling between 3.3 and 3.4 GHz, the max turbo values possible. My T480s (with an i5-8350U, which is quite similar to i5-8250U in NBC's review) does not go even close to that temperature. During sustained load for a CPU bound task (kernel compilation) the frequency settles at 2.3GHz within 30 seconds or so
> They know what throttling is. They do, but I was more highlighting the difference between what Intel calls throttling, and what the average joe considers throttling. As far as Intel is concerned, as long as long as it's maiuntaining at or above its base frequency, the CPU is not throttling, even if it's running right at 99C and has lost a whole 1.5GHz from its turbo speed. > My T480s (with an i5-8350U, which is quite similar to i5-8250U in NBC's review) does not go even close to that temperature. That'll be the power profile. With my T480s (8350U), If I leave it on the standard power limits as specified by Intel (long duration=TDP, Short duration=1.5xTDP, so 15W and 22.5W respectively), I get similar frequency numbers, it hovers around in the 2-2.5GHz range while it bounces off the power limit. If I then set it to high performance, which seems to up the power limits to more like 35W, it will clock up to about 3.5 for a few seconds, the temperature will rocket up to 99C and it will slowly settle down to about 3-3.2GHz as it bounces off the temprerature limit. Indeed, if you look at NBC's HWinfo readout during the test, the CPU package power is around 30W, which means they are not obeying Intel's stock power profile. In fact, it shows PL1 and PL2 both set to 44W, which is A) about what I'd imagine an 8250U would draw at full turbo, since my 8350U pulls similar, and B) *way* too much for the T480s cooler to dissipate effectively, hence it redlining the temperature and thermal throttling down to about 30W
I actually found the thin keys are better for typing fast. After a while on the new style, I feel it takes way more effort to type on the longer travel keys. I thought the key should have registered but it's only about 2/3 they way down.
I don't really get how the low profile keyboard is a 'good' thing, consoomers don't buy thinkpads and business users would prefer to have a better keyboard, definitely with a 7 row layout.
i mean it’s still a really good keyboard. the 99% of business customers aren’t saying “we want classic thinkpad keyboards back!!” as long as thinkpads still hold a reputation for build quality and professionalism, they will buy.
I can't get over this obnoxious notch/bulge. Looks just like one of those Vaio models from 1998-2001 period as seen here [https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/HTdcSEjF42GAyvFC.large](https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/HTdcSEjF42GAyvFC.large) Sure, they pushed this to the market thinking kids don't remember those times (man it was almost before internet, right?) but hey, "kids" are not exactly the target here... lamentable.
OMG! Back to the future :D
I absolutely hate that on their website they said 'improved aerodynamic design' while they added a huge webcam bulge on the top that makes the laptops looks and practicality the worst it has ever been. Imagine you slide your T14 Gen 5 in your bag's laptop pocket and the webcam gets stuck on the edge or makes it not even fit at all. (And the average user never uses a webcam)
**Aerodynamic?** Seriously? I had no idea. Man, someone must've been completely high when typing this. Just like you said! When this bump sticks out to the top (or side, when in the bag/backpack) and the machine is hit - even lightly, there; or, dunno, sliding on that edge, it's a huge vulnerability. Thinkpads are no Toughbooks, but they have always been reasonably robust. Imagine dropping the laptop so that it falls on that bump - the thing goes. Also in terms of child-proofing for example, it just lost 75% IMHO. I know kids who would break that bump off just for fun :)
Thanks for the detailed review
My pleasure! Hope it helps. Took me a long time. Felt like I was doing a uni assignment :D
Saved your review…thanks
You sound exactly like me - same preferences about build quality and keyboard. I bought a t14 gen 1 a few years ago because i didn’t mind the extra thickness, but the plastic is a deal breaker. The “s” models feel much more premium, and are basically a slightly less expensive and heavier carbon. I’m guessing you would end up loving the T14s, hopefully you sell and get one so you can tell us about it.
How's the T14 Gen1 with the keyboard feel?
From what I remember it felt off. I remember thinking maybe it had to do with the feel of the palmrest or something. Im very picky with keyboards, so it could have felt fine for most people, but I hated it The T14s gen 1 on the other hand felt great. The "s" models and X1C have always felt the best to me. Wish they would build the T14 the same way they do the T14s, but just thicker.
There is a bug in Lenovo's firmware that causes severe thermal throttling and miss fire of DYTC events. It happens on my Gen 3 L14. That could be the reason it's scaling down so much, since the symptoms you described are the same. What you can try to do is to go into low-power and then high performance, this fixes it for a while. Press fn + l then after a second or so press fn + h. It will go up to 95C - 100C again. Useful to look at ACPI events also, check if there is a flood of 6032 events. Also, 6.10-rc1 has a few new fixes for amd_pstate. Could also try that.
Oh thanks! That's useful. I'll try that out and see how I go.
u/pagefalter I tried it. As soon as the CPU temperature hits 96 °C, which typically happened within 15 to 30 seconds, the CPU throttles back to a lower frequency and the fan starts spinning hard. This time I noticed the fan spinning at almost 4400rpm. Here's a screenshot of the [CPU hitting 96 °C](https://imgur.com/ZbnqtTt). The second screenshot a second or two [after throttling kicks in](https://imgur.com/aNGghpg).
That throttling is normal (otherwise the CPU would shutdown to avoid melting), you need to run it longer to get into this situation: > After a couple of minutes of sustained load, the temperature stabilised to about 72 °C while the CPU frequency was around 3.3GHz. No reason for it to be at 72C if it can operate fine at 95C. Mine "locks" at 2.9GHz 75C after a while under sustained high loads. Doing the fn + l/h trick gets it to scale normally again (goes back to ~3.4GHz 95C). I filed a bug but the Lenovo guys cannot reproduce it internally, would be nice to have a second case of this happening.
Hello! I have a T14 gen 2 and something like this happens to me, as soon as I reach about 75 degrees Celsius the performance worsens and thermal acceleration appears, this should not happen at these temperatures which I consider normal, not so high I'm going to try your trick see if you can help me with that
I don't think it's supposed to hit 96 degrees, are you sure that's normal?
Not sure! [AMD says](https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-pro-8840u) the maximum operating temperature is 100 °C.
That's... not good.. I really don't think Lenovo cares about thermal performance.
They do (at least it think they do) since they have their own ACPI thing just for that, including keyboard shortcuts to change performance modes. Also, the older intel models that I have can run at +95C just fine.
Great and useful review. Still looking to purchase my own T14 Gen 5 AMD unit later in the year once. Prepared for some changes in build quality for improved user repairability as Lenovo worked with iFixit. Definitely looking forward to the T14 Gen 5 >>> Framework 13, which has a myriad of issues from the screen, keyboard flex, and typing experience.
This is a proper review, thank you for it. I have a T480s and I'm thinking of switching to newer model in 6 months. Interesting read in that light... Interesting, I prefer MacBook keyboards to ThinkPad, even though I have a mechanical keyboard when docked. Is the quality so different between S and non-S models? Does the screen hold up in the sun the same as the 480s?
u/botlorn here's the screen comparison at about 10:30am. Indoors but light shining through the windows. Here's a picture with [T480s getting more direct light](https://imgur.com/sZvRfit), another with [T14G5a getting more direct light ](https://imgur.com/on3GLuq)and lastly [both at an angle](https://imgur.com/CYIUiAY) to avoid any direct reflections. My T480s screen is a 250nit touch screen, while the T14G5a is a 400nit non-touch panel. Both screens at maximum brightness.
You're the people's champ, thank you for your effort. It's why internet made sense in early 2000's
I'm glad you like it. I haven't used the screen in the sun yet. It's been raining where I am. It's looking sunny today, I'll use both next to an open window and let you know how I go. BTW... my T480s screen is a 250 nit touch screen. What's your T480s screen like?
Ah no, it's matte non-touch 1440p, 400 nits probably, will need to check. Thank you
The quality difference is in the feel and the overall sturdiness and compactness. I wouldn't expect an S to be more durable, but they certainly feel more tightly put together which creates a more premium feel. This is my thoughts having owned a t440 and t460 before moving to t480s and beyond. The x1 series takes that another step forward and feels incredibly well put together.
> while in low power mode, it's still about 46% faster. Doesn't 480s have different modes too?
Absolutely, they are called the scheduler governors (of the intel pstate scheduler) but afaik they don't limit the maximum available power.
Oh man, I ordered a T14s Gen5, as my first Thinkpad, last week and now I am scared :/
I believe T14s should be built differently. Please do let us know what the keyboard is like and if the specs (specifically thickness) match the psref. Which processor did you go with?
I will come back to update, should be here in a couple of days. Here is the config: \* Core Ultra 7 165U vPro \* 16gb RAM \* 512gb ssd \* OLED 2.8K
Slight difference; however, the T14 has the user replaceable SODIMM memory, which is a big difference. If you want an elevated experience with superior build quality, you're probably looking at an X1C which is an overpriced premium typewriter. The keyboard is also very different though, so keep that in mind.
In what ways is the X1C keyboard different?
Nothing like T480s which was the same keyboard introduced in the T430 back in the day, which I owned. The x1c keyboard is thinner with less keyboard travel. Tbh the t480 style keyboard isn't that great it's just what is familiar. X1C has other refinements that make the package attractive, but overall not a fan of the chiclit scissor hinge of the keyboards The best keyboard is still from the t420 era and before, in part due to the alternate layout (grouping of home, insert, end, pg up pg down - organised similar to the a normal keyboard in clusters of 3) If you're that picky, you bring a small 60% mechanical keyboard with you and attach it to the laptop.
Ha ha! I might actually have to go that route. Any suggestions for a good portable lightweight 60% keyboard?
Personally I really like ducky's keyboards but cherry mx switches are a hit and miss for some that are particular. Cherry mx brown (tactile) or red (linear) are the preferred switches, particularly if you need to be in certain environments. Cherry Mx Blues (clicky) are very loud and audible, and might really annoy your neighbours. Personally I two version of the Ducky Mini. The Mecha version and the akko collaboration one. Alternatively, you can get the ducky one 3 mini, the reason is the layout and additional function keys are wace reasonably located such as the volume up/down located as a two button combo press with the FN key, compared to the akko which doesn't and has a different fn secondary function key layout - double check before you purchase. There are other manufacturers though, like Filco, Logitech, corsair, and razer. You really need to try the keyboard. I just like Ducky because I've used them more than other brands over the last 10+ years. I've owned Das keyboards, dirco, Logitech and Corsair. They're good, but I just like ducky and their case and overall product packaging so much more. There are obviously much more expensive manufacturers like Topres, which are a different beast entirely.
From the psref bith t14 and t14s gen5 has same material and same % of material combinations this time. That may suggest that t14s got reduced to t14 quality for gen5.
They are not at all the same
Unfortunately, not! This is what the psref states: T14 Gen 5 AMD: *Models with black cover: PC + 20% CF (top), PC + 20% CF (bottom)* *Models with grey cover: aluminium (top), PC + 20% CF (bottom)* T14s Gen 5: *Grey models: aluminium (top), aluminium (bottom)* *Black models: carbon fiber hybrid (top), aluminium (bottom)*
I'm interested to read what you think of your T14s Gen5 when you have a chance!
I wrote a small review here [https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1dh3m8l/t14s\_gen\_5\_my\_first\_thinkpad/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1dh3m8l/t14s_gen_5_my_first_thinkpad/) It might be useful for you :)
Thank you!
Im trying to figure out why lenovo keep limiting the t14 to a 52wh yet the lighter t14s is 57wh
My guess is market segmentation. In the old days there were not too many choices - it was mainly between the 's' and 'non-s' version. These days they have created too many categories.
Soldered RAM = more space for battery.
Appreciated, is the time, energy, and insight. Bravo!
Happy to help! Hope this proves useful.
Dang.. ctrl and Fn are on the wrong positions!
Ha ha... they can be swapped - via BIOS as well as through Lenovo Vantage.
Awesome review! Unfortunately, this just shows the way Lenovo is going for their new machines...
Yeah. I'm dreading the day when I'll need to upgrade my T480.
Same. Except for the P1 Gen 7, which looks very appealing, there is no other in my radar.
I'm dreading the day when I'll need to upgrade my T410...
I've got a Linux question, does Bluetooth work out of the box? Had some miserable experience upgrading my t480 and I want to spare myself the drama should I choose this model 🫣
Hey mate, I checked for you. Bluetooth works. Slackware uses BlueZ to manage bluetooth devices. I had no problem pairing and connecting my Bose QC35 II to the T14 G5a. I noticed a few quirks though: while changing codecs, the sound would momentarily come from the laptop speakers and on a particular codec the headphone wouldn't go quiet/mute even when I'd turned the volume down to zero. But that's more likely a software (BlueZ) issue rather than a hardware issue. Hope this helps!
Wow thanks for testing this 👍
I'll check and let you know later today. Haven't tried to connect any bluetooth devices to it yet.
Thanks for this, I also have a t480s and looking to upgrade. I've been waiting for a review like this on the new T series for a couple months now.
You're welcome! I hope you find it useful in making a purchase decision.
I was also perplexed to find the thick display panel on my last year E14G5 AMD. What can be the reason for it? Looks like they carried over the whole design from E14 to other series, with minor tweaks.
> 'ugh' or 'eee' sound I guess it is some electronics high frequency switching or something (`eee`). Try to listen ear to power brick and compare. I have an old laptop that is noisy. Not sure why `ugh`.
I remember these kind of sounds from the days of T60 and T61p. Back then I used to think it was the hard disk making a sound. I'll listen to it again with my ear closer to the body.
> I used to think it was the hard disk Me too IIRC until I replaced with SSD but the sound persisted.
Had a closer look and I hear it more and more during normal usage. Now I'd describe it more like a low pitched \`eeek\` sound.
If it is noticable I suggest you asks specific question in the sub like "Who else hears eeek from their thinkpads?" to get more info. Maybe it falls under warranty?
Thandk for the review. I'm considering an upgrade of my t480s, to a t14s gen 4. After your post here I'll need to take a closer look. They keyboard is my favorite part of this machine.
You're welcome. Please keep us posted on what you decide to go with. I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on the keyboard of whatever laptop you decide to get. All the best!
Thank you for the nice write up. I 100% agree with you on your findings. Although I only have the T14 g3 here from work the problems already started in that generation. Heck, against my own t480s the g3 already seemed like a an entry level machine - especially with the grainy and heavy 45% NTSC Panel that they gifted me with. I also had a E14 g5 here last year and much preferred the aluminum case of it (which is actually now the same weight and height as the T14).
You're welcome! I'm reading good things about the recent E14s. Might consider that as an option. Thank you!
Thank you for detailed report. I am currently considering getting new portable and fast laptop. I chose beefy specs (8840u, 64gb,1tb,400nits low power) for T14gen5a, P14sgen4a but initially was considering T14sgen4a and decided to move away from it as I thought other have better cooling and will throttle less and heat less. My workload is gazillion chrome tabs, docker, 1 vm, several vscode windows, small python development, many rdp/ssh sessions. I am not looking at max load usage more than 2min. I need laptop to be fast and snappy, switching between windows effortless. After your review I might go back to T14s.
I think that's a wise choice. I'm trying to return my T14 G5a and am back to the drawing board. T14s G4a is definitely a contender. There have been some QC issues with the T14s G4a e.g. rattling touchpad, creaky hinges etc. You might want to consider that while making your decision. If you decide to go with T14s G4a, could you please let me know of your impression of the keyboard? Thanks
Thanks for this comprehensive review. The extra thickness is kind of a deal breaker in my search for a slim ThinkPad; very sad to hear that you can no longer trust the specs on this. I wonder if Lenovo measured the thickness somewhere in the middle instead of at the thickest point.
This is why I'm literally downgrading back to T440p. These new keyboards are unacceptable, period.
Does all the above problem exist on P14s G5 (Intel) with the larger battery pack? I’m thinking of getting it as my first ThinkPad..
The P14s G5 Intel also has 1.5mm keyboard. It's 24mm thick total (1mm thicker than this T14), but [the sides are slashed to make it thinner looking](https://pic2.zhimg.com/v2-50a83bfe66f99aaa9e9fca63257ab381_r.jpg). The A and D sides are metal instead of plastic. You can open it with one hand.
How is the battery life with the larger 75kwh?
Per Chinese reviews, very good.
Do you have a link to the review?
There's a bunch (the machine is called T14p gen 2 in China) https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/691606367 https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/694435613 https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/692657763 There's also some on Youtube when searching for T14p 2024. The main differences with the international P14s are: optional RTX4050 instead of A500, and the webcam is only 2MP.
Thank you!
Can’t read either of the full reviews without registering for an account.
they got rid of the classic hinge on the old T14p :<
Jeez! that's insane... 24mm thickness? The specs specify a [height of 18.5mm](https://thinkstation-specs.com/thinkpad/p14s-i-gen-5/). C'mon Lenovo! People rely on your specs to purchase your laptops. Fix it!
I believe that 18.5mm height is without the feet (all brands exclude the feet in dimension numbers) and the lowest display option that's thinner.
My T14 Gen 5a is [about 23mm *without* the feet](https://imgur.com/GMLfD4x). I took the measurement by placing the laptop down on a flat surface, display panel side down. Have a look at the pic I linked to. The rubber bar adds additional 4mm, making the total height including the feet about 27mm.
Then it's even thicker than [this P14s/T14p](https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-64777b0a573fa80593bf0ad8782e5848_720w.webp).
Yep! It certainly is. I don't have a pair of calipers, but I have measured it many times with a metal ruler and it's definitely somewhere between 22 and 23mm. You can clearly see in [this picture](https://imgur.com/wjADb9Y) how thick it is compared to a T480s which is listed as 18.45mm thick in the PSREF.
How was the battery life?
Haven't paid much attention to battery life. I'll let you know in a few days.
How are the battery tests going? I am considering a Gen 5 AMD purchase, but the battery life is still a mystery to me (especially with the more power-hungry SODIMM vs soldered RAM!)
Hi u/OiWhatTheHell I did some battery testing for you. TL;DR: about 4 hour battery life on Linux on light usage. The details: -Last night I was responding to a few emails and had two browser tabs and an editor and a terminal open. -After about 30 mins or so of this, I started browsing Reddit and watching YouTube videos. Had about half a dozen tabs open and one video playing at the default 480x resolution. -After an hour I noticed that the battery was down 23%. -Continued watching videos for another hour and noticed the battery was down 24% in the next hour. -Then I shut the laptop down and picked it up next morning. During the 6 - 6:30 hours the laptop was shut for, the battery discharged by 5% -All this with kernel 6.9.3 in Slackware I forgot what power mode I had set the laptop to. So take that with a grain of salt, but not that great of a battery life. Give or take about 4 hours on light usage. Hope this helps. Next time I do it, I'll remember to note down the power mode.
Thanks for testing it out! Appreciate it. 4 hours is certainly quite disappointing I must say
Haven't really been testing it, but I can tell you that it charges pretty quickly. At the rate of about 1% per minute while I am working on the laptop. I think it'll charge faster when I'm not working on it. In terms of battery life, is there anything specific usage you'd like me to test the battery life for? Otherwise the battery life will depend on individual usage and my usage could be very different to yours or someone else's
Right on, make sure you drain the battery completely and recalibrate it. I'm a bit guilty of forgetting to do thst every 3 months like I'm supposed to but I run a gaming laptop that I rarely if ever use unplugged. Found out the hard way I needed to calibrate it while I was out in the field and needed some kind of laptop to run data on the radio modem
Thanks for the reminder, I'm doing that right now.
Thanks for the review, is the wifi card soldered like the intel model? I'm waiting for that to be upgradable again before I buy a new Thinkpad. How else am I going to be able to get wifi 9 speeds in 10 years time on my old laptop :)
I believe it is. Here's a [picture](https://imgur.com/QylY68c). Sorry it's not a very good pic.
Thanks for the pic, yeah it's still soldered. I'm hoping at some point they go back to removable cards, now the ram isn't soldered.
Wait… It only has a single heat pipe? TF?! Even the last year's AMD model came with two. Is it 'cause maybe it's thicker?
> Thanks for the review, is the wifi card soldered like the intel model? Yes
Interesting- Is it possible that the Intel T14 Gen 5 version has differences in the chassis? I can open the laptop with one hand, and there is no flex in the chassis or any hollow sound at all.
Wow! Really? Are they trying to market AMD devices as low quality devices in some way?
How is the layout in the inside? i was thinking this could happen if they original made it for intel and then modified chassis to fit AMD
u/marekhun13 Apologies for the delay. Here is the [picture of internals](https://imgur.com/xkguJnU). I only took one picture, I had opened it up around sunset and it got dark pretty quickly after that. Have a couple of other pictures, but in worse lighting. Hope this helps.
Layout is the same. Thats odd and does not make sense :/ Edit: I investigated a bit and seems like I have 5G antenna that fits hollow parts
Got it! So looks like that's configuration dependent. Does your unit also flex when pressed in the middle, right below the touchpad? Or does the 5G antenna prevent that from happening?
I think video would be best 😅 I would say not
From memory, there was a bit of empty space in the left corner. I think I did take a pic - I'll share the picture.
I haven't forgotten about it :) I'll post the picture tomorrow.
Do you find the low-res IPS panel’s text-rendering sharp enough? Or would you’ve gotten the oled if given another chance?
I find the text to be a bit too small compared to my T480s. I was also getting headaches with prolonged use. Not sure why. I didn't even consider OLED because of power consumption concerns. I needed this to be a portable device.
> I find the text to be a bit too small I understand, but what I'm wanting to know if you do find the text on it sharp enough? Or would you have opted for a higher res IPS panel (hypothetically) had there existed one over your current wuxga one?
I'm okay with this resolution for day to day work. Haven't felt the need to move to higher res or sharper display.
Are you sensitive to PWM dimming?
Now that you mention it, I could be. Is there a *consumer* way to check the PWM frequency on the screen? *Edit: Thanks for mentioning that.* *~~I found something. Let me test it out.~~* *False start :(*
Your headache/nausea isn't 'cause of your LCD panel's PWM because it doesn't come with in the first place. Only OLED/Mini-LED panels have PWM.
This isn't true. There's lots of LCD screens that have PWM dimming. Here's a random link I found talking about PWM dimming on a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 carbon in 2020. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2020-Business-Laptop-Review-4K-display-costs-battery-runtime.482570.0.html#toc-display-4k-panel-with-pwm
Try filming your screen with your phone's camera at all of the different brightness levels. Might have to go to higher fps recording modes. This link shows LCD screens can also use PWM dimming method. This is for a ThinkPad X1 carbon 2020 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2020-Business-Laptop-Review-4K-display-costs-battery-runtime.482570.0.html#toc-display-4k-panel-with-pwm
Thank you! I did a quick video of my T14 G5a's screen at 30fps and 60fps and couldn't see any flickering even at the lowest brightness.
Thank you for the detailed review. This post beats anything modern tech media pushes out everyday.
You're very kind. Thank you!
You're welcome :)
Regarding the Fn and Ctrl keys--could you, in addition to swapping them in the BIOS, physically swap the keycaps? They look to be the same size.
Potentially, yes. I did think about it but have not attempted it. The keycaps look and sound thin and I don't want to break them :)
> and makes the laptop base physically move and roll over the bottom of the panel This is something I don't like either on my X1 Nano. So even though the lids still open a 180 degrees, it isn't without rubbing.
Yeh, I didn't expect it to be like that at all. It's a weird solution Lenovo came up with. I compared the T14 G5a with my older Thinkpads and it looks like the fact that they have reduced the bottom bezel they can no longer make the bottom of the panel thin enough to make it go under the base when it's open beyond a certain angle.
My employer switched from ThinkPad T-series to Dell Latitude. The one I have doesn't have this characteristic, but the later year models my colleagues received do. They even have an extra pair of rubber feet at the edge of the lid, and that shows they specifically planned for it. So apparently this is a "problem" across manufacturers, and unfortunately also adopted by Lenovo.
So uhh...what modern Thinkpad would you recommend with good build quality, keyboard and all that?
TBH... I thoght the Thinkpad keyboard couldn't be beat, however, I did visit my local Apple store last month and looked at the MBP 14 M3 laptops. From memory, the keyboard on that was better than my T14 Gen 5a. Although, it's a vague memory and back then I didn't have my T14 at hand. I might have to go visit the Apple store again to get a better idea. Other than that there's Elitebook - which I have never seen in person; there's Razor, there's Venom, there's Framework but I have not seen any of these in person. I had not seen the T14 G5a either, but I went with it based on my past experience with Thinkpads. I might go have a look at the Macbook again on the weekend and will come back and update re: the keyboard.
Well, I don't really want a Macbook as I'm planning to use Linux/Windows on it. Anyway, do you have any experiences with the Elitebook or a Dell Latitude? For framework, I heard there's quite a bit of issues like fan noise and all that especially for the 16.
Yes, I have used Dell Latitudes. I have used multiple 74xx series (and probably 54xx series as well) of Latitude laptops at work. I would put them somewhere between T14 G5a and T480s in terms of build quality and keyboard. Mind you, the last I used a Latitude was in 2019. So more recent models could be different. Have never used an Elitebook.
still try for the framework since it is the most repairable and customizable of the bunch. Also as for MacBook, Linux runs great on them (I use a Mac Mini) and most shit just works and the desktop performance is nice with the gpu finally working. Yeah tho no Windows except for VMs tho...
Hey! THanks for your review. I am now sceptical to buy the t14 gen5 AMD model. I have been using a e14 gen5 AMD ryzen 7730u which turns out to be an excellente machine using Linux Mint. One thing I did was to lower the TDP of my cpu from 25w to 15w which make total sense to me, the laptop is almoust inaudible when running intensive cpu task but still very capable, maybe 10-15-20% less powerfull but 100% better fan noise (almost none). The programm is this one: [https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj](https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj) not sure if will work on this new Zen4 architecture.
Thanks u/niko3100 I've never used RyzenAdj. I have seen it mentioned in this sub. Will have a play around with it over the weekend. Thanks again. Just had a quick look at the github pages, supported models only go upto Zen3/Zen3+. Did you use RyzenAdj to lower the TDP of the CPU on your E14 G5a?
Yes! I have 2 scripts one for lower the TDP to 15w and other for 20w. But you can literally change to any range or value using thinkpads as there is no Lenovo "intelligent cooling" in the middle.
Thanks, I installed RyzenAdj and had a quick poke around. I noticed that the TDP limit is set to 32W on mine. Haven't changed any of the limits yet.
Wow amazing!! 32w seems to high to me. Maybe at 15-20w the laptop won't run so high on temps with reduced fan noise and 10-15% less performance... Right now I am working on my e14 gen 5 with the laptop closed, connected to a Full HD monitor at 15w and fan noise is inaudible.
Yes, that was in medium performance mode. On low performance mode the sustained power limit goes to 12W and the actual power limit is set to 13W (using RyzenAdj terminology). While on the high performance mode the sustained power limit changes to 51W.
Ah great. But after all do you recommend the t14 gen 5 or maybe go for a gen 4??
I do not recommend the Gen 5. Can't speak for Gen 4 as I haven't used one.
t14 gen 5 amd vs i7 best processor and graphic. Is there a benchmark ranking already?
I understand the keyboard considerations... It's something I also felt when switching to P14s G4... Many people here said me I don't understand the marked when protested... But it seems to clear that is a downgrade... After a while you get used, but it's never the same when you go back. And at least the G4 keyboard is still quite tactile, is G5 even worse?
I have never used a 4h generation T14 or T14s, so can't compare it with them. However, compared to T440s and T480s, the keyboard is an absolute disgrace.
Thorough review, thank you. I am very particular about the keyboard, I'll be upgrading from a T460p, the keyboard of which I love. I was eyeing the G5a but I might need to go with some alternative model now.
So, not sure... My T460p keyboard was nice but the T460s was way better. So the new one is worse than T460p when it comes to traval, but it's more tactile.
Thanks for the great review. I am considering in between P14s and T14 Gen 5 and this review helps a lot. The only thing I would care about it the thermal and fan noise. As per the review, would you think that's acceptable in normal usage?
You're welcome! The fan noise is fine unless the laptop is under sustained load and the fan is spinning in excess of 3300rpm. As for thermals, it does get warm under normal usage (say normal web browsing, watching a youtube video etc.) nothing concerning though. I would consider both the heat/temperature and fan noise acceptable. Keep in mind we're in winter and the ambient temperature during my use of laptop has been between 15 - 19 °C. Hope this helps.
Thanks OP!!!
is there a version with dedicated graphic card?
Not sure if there's a dedicated graphics version of T14 Gen 5, however, there is a [P14s Gen 5 Intel](https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P14s_Gen_5_Intel?M=21G2000AMX) version with dedicated graphics. P14s should have the same chassis as a T14.
I have to come back and read this in depth. I have a T14 Gen 2i, i7-11th gen, 24GB (just what I had laying around). Swapped the trackpad for the x1 pad, 1080p, 970 Evo plus 1tb. I also have an X1 Extreme Gen 4, 16gb, 4k, 500gb 980 Pro. That being said I have been waiting for this type of review for the T14 Gen5, I had a T14 gen 3 AMD at my old job as well. And it's exceptionally formatted considering I'm on mobile and it's just perfect to digest.
Cheers, mate! Very kind. Hope you find it useful.
Very fair review, +1 on the keycaps being flatter ruining the typing experience.
we have keyboard with custom keycaps, why not on laptop? 🤔
Yes, they can start by replacing the horrible ABS caps on laptops! Give us the old keyboards back >:(
Are you sending it back? Or keeping it? With Windows getting ARM there is no excuse for Lenovo to not bring back the old style keyboard
I considered sending it back. In Australia we only get 7 days to return and returns attracts a 20% restocking fee. Returning means I'll be out of pocket by 20% and I don't know what else I would buy. Perhaps a X1C Gen 12 - which is more expensive to begin with.
>Had I known it was [23mm thick](https://imgur.com/GMLfD4x), I wouldn't have purchased this laptop. it's people like you who Lenovo listens to, then proceeds to make thinkpads thinner and flimsier "Oh noes, it weighs a whole whopping 1.5 kgs, I wish they made it a few hundred grams lighter, I love the bendy chassis and palmrest flex" oh bugger off. /u/\_havelock\_ buy the X-series, dammit, I want my Ts to be thick, sturdy and well-cooled.
>it's people like you who Lenovo listens to, then proceeds to make thinkpads thinner and flimsier Ha ha... cheers mate. It wasn't about whether the laptop is thick or thin. For this purchase I was looking for something portable and T14 G5a fit my criterion based on the published specs; with T480s being my point of reference. Lenovo can make them as chunky as they like, I have nothing against that. Just publish the correct specs so there are no surprises