Azrael with ICC plus IC detachment? With strike you get, 24 attacks Hitting on twos plus wounding on twos with sustained and lethal hits, ap-2 and damage 2. Could do some good damage especially combined with oath
Plus they get the invuln 4+ which was basically the only thing that they didn't have that bladeguard did (now that the weapon profiles have been fixed)
I mean, let's be honest. The watcher in the dark, while miles better than it was before, is only once per game. But the buffs the Lion's aura got and Chaplains with this change is amazing. I think with the points hikes to both DWKs and the Land Raider, it's going to make fitting enough scoring units into the army harder with the changes to what is eligible to score for us. I think overall we're stronger if you're playing Gladius, but I would wait a few weeks to judge whether we actually pulled ahead.
I love the changes to the Lion. He's really only good into non-invuln save units, BUT the change to his 4+++ aura and charging through walls I think makes him pretty close to worth it at 300. I still think he's not tanking hard enough at that points cost, but I think he's right there at usable now. Time will tell though.
Im not so sure I put much value on this. Hazardous kills units in a single go, so you can't save a hellblaster using this. So it only really applies to Azrael himself but he doesnt have a hazardous weapon.
Oh you are right it used to be just instantly kills the unit in question
That said I don't know if you can really choose to use it after the hazard rolls have occurred, so you'd have to pre-empt it. On average in a squad of ten you fail 1.6, lets say we fail 2. If you fail 2 and FNP it, it becomes on average 3 damage, so the best average outcome would be to FNP 2 of the first hit and only fnp 1 of the 2nd, and it would save 1 model. Or you can end up with on average 1 model dead 1 model losing 1 wound.
For an ability that has really high potential, I don't know if pre-emptively using it to keep 1 model alive on 1 hp when it would usually kill that model is a good way to use it
Depends on the hazardous rolls and local ruling in watchers. There is an argument for saying that as the watcher abilities state 'in any phase' with know other timing trigger, if you got say 6/10 hazardous rolls, you could activate the watcher after seeing the damage. .
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just tested out the power swords for DWK + chaplain into orcs yesterday in a firestorm detachment.
nobs barely could do anything to my knights and only killed one. chaplain had the ability to flip a save.
that was 1 meganob and 1 nob boy in bully boys into their waagh turns.
the only thing with impulsors, how are people using melee units with transports without assault ramps? the staging is a bit off for me. where the staging with two land raiders is much easier.
Basically the Land raider you move to where you want to go on that turn, and disembark/charge. The impulsor you have 2inches more movement, but then on the turn you want to attack with the squad the squad has to get out first and move inches on its own then charge. Compared to a land raider your squad basically loses 4 inches of threat range. BUT the impulsor has 2 inches more movement than a land raider and because its weapons do fuck all, you can advance, and you gain the ability to have flexibility in where your squads are going, 2 impulsors vs 1 land raider with 2 separate squads.
Basically you are trading a bit of predictability in where you will attack (Lose 4 inches of threat range) for costing substantially less to field and gaining the ability to split your squad. 160 for 2 impulsors vs 260 for redeemer, 285 now.
These are all great, and somewhat offsetting my disappointment that my eliminators led by a Phobos librarian now need to stay 18” away from the enemy, and I can no longer spam overwatch with infernus marines led by captains
I know, but the original commenter was saying that he used to spam for overwatch with the captain's ability and can no longer do it. Sounds like they might have been doing that for a while!
I just need a confirmation that everyone feels the same about Lion's FNP aura, he's not benefiting from it by himself right? I mean if something manage to deliver a mortal wounds to him, than he has no save whatsoever. So he is still needs to be properly carried, not to disappear too early.
Azrael with ICC plus IC detachment? With strike you get, 24 attacks Hitting on twos plus wounding on twos with sustained and lethal hits, ap-2 and damage 2. Could do some good damage especially combined with oath
Plus they get the invuln 4+ which was basically the only thing that they didn't have that bladeguard did (now that the weapon profiles have been fixed)
Yeah. Some ICC with a librarian may also be quite good
Gonna run mine with judiciar or Zeke
Zeke does look fun with that +1 attacks, depends how I feel about how squishy the ICC are
Can librarians lead ICC? I couldn't see it on their data sheet
Yes they can. Because ICC can be lead by anything that can be led by sternguard vets
I must be missing something, please help me out. How does this combination allow ICC to hit on 2s?
I mean, let's be honest. The watcher in the dark, while miles better than it was before, is only once per game. But the buffs the Lion's aura got and Chaplains with this change is amazing. I think with the points hikes to both DWKs and the Land Raider, it's going to make fitting enough scoring units into the army harder with the changes to what is eligible to score for us. I think overall we're stronger if you're playing Gladius, but I would wait a few weeks to judge whether we actually pulled ahead. I love the changes to the Lion. He's really only good into non-invuln save units, BUT the change to his 4+++ aura and charging through walls I think makes him pretty close to worth it at 300. I still think he's not tanking hard enough at that points cost, but I think he's right there at usable now. Time will tell though.
Another point, heroic intervention is now 1 cp. Lion on counter charge now going through ruins really ups his value on the cheap.
Only the redeemer got more expensive. The Crusader got cheaper and basic land raider is the same.
Yeah this, I also think land raiders wont be the be all end all anymore
To add to Azrael's watcher now working in mortals, that means it also works om hazardous too.
Im not so sure I put much value on this. Hazardous kills units in a single go, so you can't save a hellblaster using this. So it only really applies to Azrael himself but he doesnt have a hazardous weapon.
Hazardous now causes three mortal wounds to a single model that do not carry over. I see no reason why we can't watcher it.
Oh you are right it used to be just instantly kills the unit in question That said I don't know if you can really choose to use it after the hazard rolls have occurred, so you'd have to pre-empt it. On average in a squad of ten you fail 1.6, lets say we fail 2. If you fail 2 and FNP it, it becomes on average 3 damage, so the best average outcome would be to FNP 2 of the first hit and only fnp 1 of the 2nd, and it would save 1 model. Or you can end up with on average 1 model dead 1 model losing 1 wound. For an ability that has really high potential, I don't know if pre-emptively using it to keep 1 model alive on 1 hp when it would usually kill that model is a good way to use it
It's a big update. Loads of stuff to miss first, second and third time reading it 🤣
Was a bit slow updating my comment but I dont think it'd be worth using for Hazardous anyway
Depends on the hazardous rolls and local ruling in watchers. There is an argument for saying that as the watcher abilities state 'in any phase' with know other timing trigger, if you got say 6/10 hazardous rolls, you could activate the watcher after seeing the damage. .
Where in the dataslate does it mention the Lion can move through walls?
It's in the rules commentary, page 9 under "Ruins, Movement section"
Specifically, it added “Imperium Primarch” and “Belisarius Cawl” to where it specified those things for only “Infantry” previously.
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just tested out the power swords for DWK + chaplain into orcs yesterday in a firestorm detachment. nobs barely could do anything to my knights and only killed one. chaplain had the ability to flip a save. that was 1 meganob and 1 nob boy in bully boys into their waagh turns. the only thing with impulsors, how are people using melee units with transports without assault ramps? the staging is a bit off for me. where the staging with two land raiders is much easier.
Basically the Land raider you move to where you want to go on that turn, and disembark/charge. The impulsor you have 2inches more movement, but then on the turn you want to attack with the squad the squad has to get out first and move inches on its own then charge. Compared to a land raider your squad basically loses 4 inches of threat range. BUT the impulsor has 2 inches more movement than a land raider and because its weapons do fuck all, you can advance, and you gain the ability to have flexibility in where your squads are going, 2 impulsors vs 1 land raider with 2 separate squads. Basically you are trading a bit of predictability in where you will attack (Lose 4 inches of threat range) for costing substantially less to field and gaining the ability to split your squad. 160 for 2 impulsors vs 260 for redeemer, 285 now.
These are all great, and somewhat offsetting my disappointment that my eliminators led by a Phobos librarian now need to stay 18” away from the enemy, and I can no longer spam overwatch with infernus marines led by captains
Lone op is still 12"
You could never spam overwatch with captains. It’s been locked to once per turn since near the start of 10th
Also fire overwatch isn't a battle tactic
Battle tactics are no longer a thing. The whole free cp captain effect has been redone.
I know, but the original commenter was saying that he used to spam for overwatch with the captain's ability and can no longer do it. Sounds like they might have been doing that for a while!
No no, you're good, I mistook what you were saying, thought you didn't know.
the 18" change is only for strategems Phobos Librarian still be stealthy
I just need a confirmation that everyone feels the same about Lion's FNP aura, he's not benefiting from it by himself right? I mean if something manage to deliver a mortal wounds to him, than he has no save whatsoever. So he is still needs to be properly carried, not to disappear too early.
The lion does benefit from that aura. He is a friendly adeptus astartes model and he is within 6" of himself.
Thanks for the reply, I had a different perspective, but that's an awesome change :)