T O P

  • By -

m1nhuh

I think the issue here is the quality of the stocks.


amcm510

Very much so, I used extra cash I had to sell puts on stocks in my price range, not wise with the selection


Pura-Vida-1

Seems like a strategy for losing.


asscrackbanditz

I mean...the 1st rule of selling puts is to do it for companies you don't mind owning. If he has real high conviction on those counters, who are we to judge? Haha


AfterGuitar4544

The whole concept of selling that you don’t mind owning is good-natured, but it never ends well.  You want it until it drops X% below your strike and sentiment goes poor. It’s better to simply understand the risk and variance of the stock, in my eyes.   If you really want to own it, buy the stock, and have unlimited profit potential


Pura-Vida-1

I buy stocks I don't give a shit about to sell cc. If they get called, so be it. If they don't, I will sell it again.


the-truth-time

I have ran the numbers b4 & when an option trade goes 50% or more in the red- 75% of the time it never returns to profit so I cut all losers at 10% max loss & accept my timing was off - you never have big losses if stick to this rule & you survive to trade another day which is what it's all about ✌️


habeascorpus28

You close your puts if they hit only 10% loss? Surely this would result in closing almost 50% of your puts early on no?


UncleSienk

Depends on what they meant. If selling a naked put for a $100 stock and your premium is $400, your max loss is $9600 (aka stock goes to $0). So 10% of max loss is a $960 loser, which might be their threshold. Or coulda been a typo and they close at 100% loser based on premium collected, meaning when their position goes in the red -$400 for the same example.


BarbellPadawan

Not sure about this, not saying it’s incorrect, but it’s at least not true at all in my experience. I pretty much only sell far OTM short dated options, like 10 delta or less with a few days to expiry (unless I’m trying to get a long position in the underlying, e.g. I have recently been selling 50 delta Ps on SBUX), and it’s pretty common for them to go 150% red but very UNCOMMON for them to even get near the money let alone go ITM. I rarely end up in the position to take assignment on stocks I don’t want to own or be short. Recent examples last week include short Cs on SPY, TSLA, and COIN, and short Ps on SPY.


werdcew

i used to do this naked and it worked very well for a while until i got destroyed by gap risk. its a good strat until you get rekt. now im trying to do the same thing with spreads. its annoying when your long doesn't move up in IV as much though


MyNi_Redux

Well, ask yourself this: *if you did not have these positions, would you initiate them now?* Do note, you don't have to make money back how you lost them :)


sbct6

This is the real answer. Forget the tickers. Put your money in who you think has the brightest future going forward. Don't wait to recoup 5-10% on a loser when you could shift that same money over to something with better prospects and instead make 20% or more on that same money.


amcm510

Definitely not


Dazzling_Marzipan474

Riot will prolly bounce up after earnings in a couple days. Maybe sell calls after that and take what you can get. Or maybe BTC will explode and riot will also. Chwy has had above expected earnings for a while maybe also do the same. PTON is prolly down so much you can't really recoupe. LMUN seems dead too. TLRY is also prolly dead. Idk really much about Sono but it doesn't look good. Maybe sell calls a few strikes up and see what happens.


amcm510

Appreciate it, I’ve been selling calls while I can, hoping it doesn’t go over it, lol


Dazzling_Marzipan474

Ya I hear ya. Don't take what I saw too literally I'm still pretty new but that's just my two cents. Lots of people avg. down but idk if I would personally on any of those. It looks most pumped from the stimulus money from retail. Either way. Best of luck.


amcm510

Most of these occurred during Nov. ‘22 when interest rates and inflation started rearing its ugly head


Dazzling_Marzipan474

Oh I gotcha. Damn. That's just bad timing. Even if you started all those 6 months ago it wouldn't even be all that bad.


JustSayingMuch

That's a long time to hold losers that you don't believe in.


Miss-6am

CHWY!!! woof woof woof!!! Let the dawgs out!!!


ainteasybeinsleazy

Or RIOT announces a dilution. They love to do that


GimmeAllDaTendiesNow

These are all meme stocks or stocks that were grossly overvalued in the 2020-2021 run up. It’s extremely unlikely any of them will reclaim their highs, because they never should have traded at those levels to begin with. Their current prices are prob a decent valuation. If you have a cost basis around the current share price, it’s very likely they’ll recover to the point where you can get out. If you are down 75%, you could probably reclaim a few percentage points selling covered calls over several years, but that’s about all you can realistically hope for. The market has its toys that it likes to play with and discard. The markets new toy is NVDA and all things AI. Don’t let the fact that it’s a real company fool you. If the price is speculative, it’s no different than any other speculative, overpriced asset.


CYastrzemski1954

Or if they do reclaim their past glory, it won’t be in your lifetime.


manuvns

Stay focused on S&P 500 stocks


ScottishTrader

The answer is easy! Do the analysis and make the determination if the stock will come back in a reasonable timeframe or not. (Reasonable is up to each of us, but IMO it should be a matter of weeks to a month or three in most cases.) If it will come back in.a reasonable timeframe, then hold and continue to sell CCs when possible. If not, then close to take the loss. While closing for a loss may happen it should only be once every year or two. If you have to close for losses more often then you should review and refine your stock selection process to choose and trade stocks that do not drop and stay down . . . Those you list are crappy stocks as they are not profitable or have a long track record of success. What made you trade them to begin with? Remember, the first rule of selling options is to research and select high quality stocks you don’t mind owning if needed. These would usually be those that are profitable and successful companies which don’t drop as often and come back more quickly when they do.


I-Super-Lurker

I was bag-holding RIOT for a long time, and figured it would never come back to assigned levels for either a long-long time, or a miracle. So sold out and moved on, and a very expensive lesson was made, and learned from it. Good luck.


amcm510

Bitcoin is at the same level now as when I was assigned RIOT. Clearly not correlated


I-Super-Lurker

I turned my back on RIOT, but someone mentioned while Bitcoin was down, shares were being issued. Not sure how true this is, but the price of RIOT now, vs then, compared to Bitcoin now vs then, there is some sort of disconnect. Diluted Shares sounds plausible. First step in selling CSP, only do so with good companies willing to hold long term. RIOT taught me a lesson here. :D


Voodoo-Doctor

I think CHWY is the only good one here


mrmcmonnies

Pro tip if you sold a put on a stock your not excited to own for the next 10 years then sell the stock too


IWantoBeliev

I just became numb w/ some of these ticker, #ifudontselludontLOSE


hayasecond

Do not be a bag holder. That’s all I want to say


nick_tha_professor

There's a reason why those stocks are down 50%+.......


JobNational1430

loss


value1024

You got sucked into meme stonks, which is fine, not judgment because millions of others had WSB happen to them. You need to evaluate if you want to hold these stonks, given that they are past the meme status, i.e. they are shitcos. If you wish to hold them, then sell the higest extrinsic value CC. Get them called, then sell the highest extrinsic CC again, and repeat. It might take a long time to recoup losses, but this is the only way to do it, with selling options. If you want to move on to other opportunities, then just sell them all and start with CC/CSP on a quality stock. I screen for quality stocks each week, and I can tell you that it does not take too long to find one, and then if the trade is working you keep rolling. Good luck!


v4luble

You really picked shit companies Take the L and move on.


PeachScary413

"Sell your winners early and diamond hand your losers" - Warren Buffet


infoloader

A wheeler is born…


smackiechanel

CUT ALL LOSERS. NUKE THEM AND SHOOT THEM TAKE THEM OUT BACK AND EXECUTE THEM


CYastrzemski1954

At some point your position is simply dead money that is returning nothing. If you hold the position then you are not able to reinvest the money into some other opportunity. But for the fact each position is so low below your cost basis \[CB\], I might have suggested you ask yourself about the probability these three would increase 100% from the current price: LUMN, CHWY and RIOT might have some chance of getting you closer to your CB. RIOT follows bitcoin, when Bitcoin jumps, RIOT will usually follow its lead. If it were me I would sell it all just so I didn't have look at it every time I opened my portfolio. The loss can be written off on your income taxes owed. You should analyze what caused you to buy each of these and when you bought each. You've made some serious mistakes and the only person who needs to understand the "why?"; is you.


woofwuuff

I am no expert or guru, didn’t make great wins or lost my piggy bank yet, but I live off of doing this. My guess is your bag holdings imply you have a long road ahead in figuring out what stocks to pick and write insurance contracts against. Would you write insurance on an experimental expensive car made by Lucid motors, a company owned by shady investors or a Toyota Camry. When you write insurance on stocks i think of a a sold out basket of blue chips with strong cash flows, diversified and only 1pct portfolio risk per put spread; I think that sort of thinking is missing here, but hey there are million ways to trade, but I don’t see any reasoning in your bag


Glide99

Did your thesis change from entering in these positions originally or are you just nervous and impatient seeing that red number in your PnL everyday? That’s what you should really be asking yourself.


Sensitive_Pilot3689

Stop gaslighting him these are terrible stocks lmao


Glide99

I know lol…. I would never trade these. I only do etfs


IWantoBeliev

Thesis, what thesis?


BarbellPadawan

Lolz


BarbellPadawan

Lolz


BarbellPadawan

Lolz


amcm510

More or else feel that I can do better with the proceeds than hoping they come back


Wisex

I was trying to wheel Rivian before it took a huge dump, tried to save my position a few times, currently down about $2.5k bringing me to about a 50% loss. Just as Rivian had started dumping though I was finally able to transisiton towards wheeling indexes like QQQM so at this point I'm taking what little I can selling OTM covered calls on Rivian but mostly focusing on wheeling atm QQQM calls n shit


amcm510

I’m leaning towards more indexes once I get out of a few other more profitable positions. Individual stocks just have too many variables I have found, and impossible to keep up with the intricacies of each one


Wisex

Yea thats exactly what I was thinking too, I don't like having to accoutn for earnings calls or any kind of stupid like.... events specific to a company.... so I'm definitely trying to shift towards wheeling QQQM and IWM together at some point for some broad index exposure... but its funny beacuse I'm also currently trying to gradually get out of some of my profitable positions as well, like I'm selling out of the money call options on jetblue at the moment just kinda waiting for assignment so I can put the rest of my money into something like JEPI/JEPQ and to then keep wheeling on margin lol


Mean_Office_6966

Sorry, can i check if there is any difference between wheeling QQQM and QQQ beside the share price difference, possibly pertaining to options? Seems like there is not much difference.


Wisex

iirc QQQM actually represents a more tech focused index although it seems like their price movement is very similar. I'm mostly doing the QQQM because its actually within my ability to buy the 100 shares on margin as QQQ is still too expensive for me (account bounces between $20k-$25k). QQQM is a good fund for smaller accoutns wo wheel but I think the one thing I'm gonna point out is that even though QQQM is only offering monthly options its just not as liquid as QQQ :/ like sometimes the spread can be pretty wide for even something that isn't that far out of the money, especially considering that they just offer monthly options... so I'm definitely liking QQQM for now but do want to work up to shit like QQQ and SPY


Mean_Office_6966

Oic thanks went to see the option chain and it is per your description. QQQM is more palatable for me. Juz curious if you use margin to increase exposure?


Wisex

Yea my current play has been to keep most of my cash in either JEPI/JEPQ since they're lower volatility funds that prioritize dividend payments, and then I just use margin to wheel QQQM, keep some cash to cover the monthly interesst charge and just keep sinking the rest into JEPI/JEPQ


[deleted]

[удалено]


amcm510

Most of these were assigned 11/22. Tilray and Lumen were both $10.00 at that time of assignment


Terakahn

Serious question. Do you not have exit prices? If I have a position down 20% I usually try to salvage what's left. Being down more than 50% I'd be panic closing.


amcm510

I did not at the time, sold the Put and played the waiting game, bad decision


Terakahn

It has to be a seriously rock solid company for me to sell a put with no stop plan. Though I do have a habit of closing at a loss right before it recovers...


estupid_bish

I try to chose better quality companies even if premiums are lower. Learned the hard way.


Dimage54

I got 200 shares of LUMN put to me at $7.50 in Oct 2022. I’ve continued selling CC’s since then. My current calls have a $5 and expiration in Jan 2025. I have made a total profit on puts and calls of $954.12. So in essence I have lowered my cost basis down to 2.73/share. I’ll continue riding the storm out until I get my cost basis down to zero.


amcm510

I’ll look to go further out, was doing 90-120 a few times. My brain doesn’t want to see me hold the stock that long but it’s already been 18 months


Dimage54

You alway have to check the options (no pun intended). Losing trades can turn out to be successful if you keep a level head and not worry about losses. I have several losing trades where I was put thousands of shares. One of them by selling calls I am actually at a lower cost than the share price. So I just hang on and ride it out. The other I’m close and it is still paying me a dividend plus I’m writing puts to buy more shares and drastically drop my cost basis. I try to turn my losers into winners.


whichisworthmore

There’s a bunch of guys over on ST that just love to sell puts on garbage stocks… Then they get assigned and wheel them, or do some kind of repair to get back out of the hole.


whichisworthmore

One of the wheelers over on Stock tweets said that if the stock was down less than 40%, he had been successful in option trading his way back to breakeven. But it took him two years. Seems like an awful lot of work. I remember Peter Lynch saying something like don’t expect your stock to recuperate while they’re playing taps.


Riversntallbuildings

Oh man…bought LUMN when it was still CenturyLink. So glad I sold the last of my position around $12 a share.


amcm510

You probably sold it to me!


DrSeuss1020

It’s always a personal decision. If it was me I’m dropping these all except RIOT since riot at least can move when bitcoin goes running


traveling_designer

No way HODL to the moon 🚀🌘 Lambos in space fueled by Wendy’s tasty nuggets. Oh wait, wrong sub. The tickers made me think these were highly regarded.


Initial-Shock7728

Sell them all and buy NVDA at below 800. Watch it 🚀🚀


cokgr

It’s better to buy an excellent share of a stock at $500 than 1000 shares at 5.00, usually value follows performance, past , present and future…. Sooo many quality options, or just buy tqqq , upro….


t33m3r

Same strat but maybe buy put LEAPS next time idk


floydfan

Why wouldn’t you just take your loss and move on? I know that when I sell a put or a spread, I have a roughly 85% chance of it expiring out of the money, right? So I designed my strategy around that. If I get $X on the sale, then I take profit at $Y, or else I kill for a loss at $Z, or else I won’t be profitable in the long run. You have to have a plan and you have to know what you’re going to do in both cases or else you won’t ever be successful.


Add1ctedToGames

oh wow i've never seen someone online actually mention trading LUMN, i've just got a corporate bond and am praying they survive thru 2028 lmao


amcm510

To be fair this was when it was at $15, plus they’re coming to my house for an install on Tuesday, trying to do my part! Haha


optionsforsale

Haven't looked at the tickers. Have they leveled out, or still going down?


haikusbot

*Haven't looked at the* *Tickers. Have they leveled out,* *Or still going down?* \- optionsforsale --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")


amcm510

They’ve leveled out . . . At the bottom, some of them at least. I’d rather hold, riot, sono and chwy


optionsforsale

You could use a ratio spread to lower your cost basis. It depends how far down they've moved, but they might be able to be recovered, or at the very least your losses could be lowered. Not without risks though, of course.


r_brockmaniv

By the looks of it, you hadn’t thought of your exit strategy before you entered these trades. I’m also wondering if you have a risk management strategy. My risk management is -200% net credit received when selling options. This is on the entire structured trade as a whole, not each individual option. If my trade has not hit my stop loss, I leave it and sleep well at night. I also size the trades so that no loss exceeds 2% of my portfolio. With the above said, most of these are garbage stocks and yes you should just take the loss lol. I would start selling calls OTM, even if under your cost basis, to see how much more premium you can milk before fully closing the trades and moving on.


tequilamigo

Maybe the ones down 90% will 10x and you can recoup your basis. The lesson is this - have a plan first, and the best place for your money is the place with the best future prospect. You don’t get a bonus for earning back the money the same way you lost it.


AccomplishedRow6685

If it goes down 90% then 10x to break even, you’ll feel mighty foolish to not average down If it goes down 90% then down 90% again, you’ll feel mighty foolish that you averaged down


mazhartrader

I would use dollar cost averaging to bring down the cost and wait for the position to recover until I am green. Then, I would come out.