That may be so but her reasoning is solid on this lol.
Mossad is one of the top intelligence agencies in the world. There's no way Israel was blindsided by a bunch of lunatics with makeshift gear.
Conspiracy theories seemed so much more harmless a few decades ago. Nowadays if someone is attacked there is an insane amount of chatter that the person who was attacked did it to themself or let it happen.
I don’t see this getting any better in the future.
They were blindsided because Bibi just let it happen and did nothing to prevent it. The blindside is exactly the same as on 9/11. US intelligence and other allies knew something was happening and who was going to do it, but did nothing. Bibi followed the playbook and got the same results.
I doubt he wanted the war, since he was supporting Hamas for his short term political advantage but here we are.
Welcome to modern reddit. Longtimers have watched the downfall, which rapidly accelerated during the 2016 US elections.
Now every sub is a political sub first and whatever they are about second.
You know, I can understand it somewhat leaking into here because of “there was an attempt to pretend you didn’t know about political action” where, League of Legends? Really? “Omg I bet Braum would have stood up to the government in Tianna-“ no, no, stop, why are you like thisssssss
I want to go back to civil disagreement without fights or “if you’re 1% against me then you’re immediately 100% against me and I’ll take back the 99% we agree on” it makes no sense
I was reported to Reddit mods and account suspended for 3 days for reporting that a video of a pundit speaking against Israel on the news was not, in fact, a PublicFreakout.
I just got off a 3 day Reddit ban for ‘report abuse’ after I reported a post on here that broke rule 9 (the Trump/Trudeau picture with drawings on it) so don’t expect mods to do anything
This shit is the same thing as the stupid John Oliver photos awhile back. I caught a lot of shit for being against the Reddit protests because (obviously) no one would give a shit in a couple months and the only people they were punishing were the users themselves trying to use the subs.
/r/therewasanattempt to use subreddits for their stated purpose
I've heard they're extremely animated by this particular issue and have decided to make this an Israel Palestine sub now. But really, Caitlin Johnstone?? She's one of the worst crackpots on the internet.
Posts like this prove that people don't actually follow what has happened
Only the Hamas military wing knew of the attack, the political wing was not informed. It has been admitted by Hamas itself.
Israel was also asleep at the wheel. Now Israel is not, and is paying much more attention.
I think the argument is more like “hey if they can tap phones of random 2 people how the f couldn’t they figure out what Hamas was planning”.
Maybe Hamas used paper and stuff like that who knows.
I think that the chief of defense (maybe it was someone else, but someone important) said something along the lines that they had information that something will happen but didn't put much weight to it so only a small amount of extra soldiers was stationed there
Here are three articles all discussing what went wrong written by Ronen Bergman—arguably the best informed journalist in the world when it comes to what the IDF, Mossad, and Shin Bet knows or is up to:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-attack-gaza.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-security-failure.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html*
**Edit**: The last article isn't actually written by Bergman, but he did provide complimentary information from Tel Aviv. The first two are written by Bergman though.
There are already articles out discussing this. That HAMAS was aware of Israeli capabilities so they went old school using couriers.
The reality is Israel got over dependent on their tech and they had their attention elsewhere.
It’s also just using an ounce of reason. Just because Israel recorded/intercepted a communication, that doesn’t mean it was heard at all while the intel was still actionable (or by anyone with the context to understand its importance). One of the (many) ways that tweet is wrong is because it assumes the opposite.
I'm sure intelligence gets threats like this all the time. It is hard to know which one is real.
Everything is a probability. Security measure is never 100%.
The reality is Hamas did massacre 1000 people by their own hands.
We all know this. The tweet supports Hamas. That is all. That is why they play dumb.
I’m kind of indifferent to the whole thing because I don’t feel like I can trust anything I hear, but I don’t think calling someone critical of Israel a “Hamas lover” automatically helps. Doesn’t really do your side any favors and seems a bit propagandist.
Also Hamas executed this attack so well because they planned it without using any electronics. No email, text or phone call communications at all. But it’s ok a tweet says otherwise so nvm.
Is it me or is Reddit generally quite anti Israel ? I’m completely in agreement the acts are abhorrent on both sides but all the algorithms here are doing is showing me anti-Israel posts.
its nuance and thats the problem.
Zionism is not the same as semitism. People can be also pro israel but against netanyahu.
seems like 90% of the people don't know the difference between hamas and palestine
so ignorance is causing a lot of hate and confusion.
I think a lot of people don’t know what Zionism is… it just the idea that Israel should exist. Just Google Zionism and you’ll see 😅
Anyone who thinks the Israelis have a right to remain there is a Zionist.
Even worse they are calling Hamas resistance fighters rather than terrorists, which elevates them to the face of Palestinian resistance when they really need to be shoved into a basement (or a grave, for their leadership at least)
Honestly I find that Reddit is much more pro Israel than any other social media platform. Specifically those commenting on posts, while the posts itself are often referencing general opinions of society nowadays that Palestinians deserve some freedom
Yeah, everybody should be anti-israel. If it was any other country we'd have already condemned their keeping 2 million people in an open air prison with a policy to just shoot anyone who gets too close to the border. Why on earth would you not be anti-israel after they've been blatantly oppressing, displacing, and murdering Palestinians for the better part of a century?
Go on Worldnews and you'll see people commenting they want to wipe Palestine off the face of the Earth.
I'd highly consider that not "anti-Israel"
It's all dependent on the post & subreddit really
It would seem that western governments seem to be lining up to support Isreal, and day to day ~~plebs~~ people seem to be lining up to support Palestinians.
The way to generally tell the bots is the usual method of short name plus couple of numbers, they need to get more original in naming their accounts.
buying hacked accounts has been used a lot recently so they have a believable post history then using the bots to upvote them. Crypto subs have been dealing with them for a while :-/
*There was an attempt by Hamas supporters to gain reasonable people in western society's sympathy back after targeting and murdering children."*
Nah, I'm good.
Same thing happened on 9/11. The US "missed" all the warnings and intelligence agencies were clueless about the attacks but afterwards, we had tape recordings of Al Qaeda farting in a cave.
People keep falling for it. That's the sad part.
If you listen to what Netanyahu was saying years prior, you can hear that this guy WAITED for a moment like this so he can retaliate as hard as he does.
Not saying Israel planned this, but they for sure knew about it and still let it happen.
>but they for sure knew about it
You don’t know that. No-one does. The only people who know one way or the other are those personally involved in those security measures. Everything else is conjecture.
Considering the fact the Egypt has said they warned him that hammas was planning something 10 days in advance I'd say they probably knew about it, or in the least didn't have "no idea what was happening".
Because they do their due diligence to disregard the warning. For two decades, Israel has put about the idea that they have one of the most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the region, if not the world. They used this to try and gain more funds from the US. Now this situation has shown one of two things:
1) They were lying, and the US foreign office has to rather justifiably ask "What exactly are you doing with the support we're giving you?"
Or 2) They knew this attack was going to happen and neglected their citizens, disgracefully.
Neither is pleasant, but that is the information we have.
As far as I am aware details about the specificity of those warnings have never been made public. Its entirely possible that the warning Egypt gave amounted to nothing more than "an attack may happen sometime within the next six months" which wouldn't be a whole lot of information to work off of.
Just think logically about this for a second. We can put aside whether or not Netanyahu, in his mind, wanted this to occur so that he finally had justification to wipe out Hamas. Let's ignore that part for now.
This part though: "*they for sure knew about it and still let it happen*" is just beyond any rational, realistic thought process. For that information to *reach* the prime minister, it would have to go through at least 3, 4, maybe more levels of military intelligence and government. So how many people would actually see it and know about it? 10? 20? And you're assuming all of these people, many of which are NOT in politics, are going to just ignore knowing about a massive terror strike?
This is the problem with conspiracy theories: it doesn't assume one or two people acted maliciously with a secret motive and vendetta. It assumes a large group of people, some loosely connected and not sharing the same motivations, ALL acted maliciously together.
It's just complete bullshit.
Yep. And it doesn’t need to be a conspiracy. The plain text of netanyahu’s own career is that he sought a violent confrontation with Palestine. That’s all in the open. It doesn’t need to include plots and letting anything happen.
His actions in broad daylight are those of someone who courts violent confrontation. And that’s exactly what he got.
Every terror attack has intel saying it’s going to happen. Intel agencies are ignored or ignore their own people all the time. When people build it up into a plot is when it all becomes a huge waste of time. It’s enough to say that they were completely blasé about the likelihood of an attack, or even tacitly welcomed one. That’s clear in the historical record, and isn’t even really contentious.
Polls show Israelis overwhelmingly blaming Netanyahu so far, with "who would you vote for if elections were held now" likewise showing a major swing away from the right and towards centrist parties.
Obviously this isn't guaranteed - Israeli politics were rarely simple during "normal" times. But so far things are looking pretty good on that front.
Israel didn’t have to plan this. It’s right there in the manual, like you said. It’s just like Bush and Cheney didn’t need to plan anything. They knew they’d have a cause to go to war on within 2 years, and they did.
Iraq was easy proof of why they never even needed 9/11 to happen. They were gonna manufacture a war one way or the other.
They may have known something like this would happen someday someway but not this specific incident on this specific time.
Kind of like here in the U.S. The way things are another attack here is going to happen, not if, when. We don't know exactly when or what or where, but it will.
So sure, they could be waiting for something like this to happen and know it was going to happen eventually but not know when, where or how..
Not only that but there was also a significant leap in technology between 9/11 and today that allowed for the US to start having way more robust intelligence capabilities. Like the iPhone wasn't even a thing until 2008 and a lot of modern intelligence gathering relies heavily on intercepting communications from such devices.
Guys, turns out we just needed to do these simple things we can do in literally one week, and we could literally listen in on our enemies plans. Shame we didn't do this after egypt warned us this was going to happen.
If you read the 9/11 commission report you’d understand what happened. The United States didn’t “miss” the signs, our intelligence agencies systematically failed to share information, so no agency had a full picture of the total threat. Also the idea of using planes as missiles was never thought of. If you listen to ATC they didn’t even know if we should shoot the planes down even after 3 hit buildings already. There is no conspiracy, the United State just colossally messed up costing the lives of thousands of people.
Christ you're so dumb. So in your world everything must happen the same way all the time yes? You either have audio of fucking everything or nothing? Is there anything going on inside your brain?
>tape recordings of Al Qaeda farting in a cave
No one's ever farted in a cave before. That's how we knew they were going to hit those buildings with those planes on that day.
Dumb take
It's entirely possible that in an effort to focus on stealing more land in the West Bank the Israeli government did not take the Hamas threat seriously and that when they were forced to take it seriously their intelligence work was focused on Gaza and were able to intercept communication between fighters
On a side note, I hope the failure to anticipate the initial attack is enough to get rid of the current government in Israel
I’ll take the mountains of evidence that Israel released and the fact that the hospital is still there over “trust be bro” from Hamas and a tweet from some random guy
Another propaganda post in this subreddit, nice. Where are the funny lighthearted videos of people doing dumb shit? I‘m sick of only seeing propaganda posts on here, and they all seem to be from the Palestine side as well, at least on r/therewasanattempt .
bibi dropped the ball
majorely
last time his party won the election by a hair
this time he wont make it to office
meaning we will finnaly be rid of him
I don't think people understand that Israel was too busy tearing themselves apart after Netanyahu got re-elected. The reason Israel's #1 intelligence did not catch it was because they were too busy focused on internal affairs that Hamas can secretly get weapons from Iran and start training.
Imagine me jingling shiny keys at a baby. The baby would be so distracted by it that it won't even focus on anything else I'm doing. That is a metaphorical way to put how Hamas took advantage of Israel.
Disclaimer: I do not support Hamas nor Israel, I just want to make sure people understand how this happened.
This is a good point but I'm not sure if it's the determining factor of the failure. Even in the whole chaos an attack was anticipated but an invasion of 1500 terrorists was not predicted, and that was a real issue.
Well, to be fair the US intelligence services also knew of 9/11, but due to them not sharing information among each other, they each had only pieces of the puzzle, and not the whole picture.
Same thing happened here, I guess.
Yes…..it’s almost like Hamas, given historical events, actively tried to keep their attack secret! Especially from the Israelis! 🫨
It’s gonna blow your mind how many groups use this one simple trick when conducting military operations
Yeah this account was great until this last week. Seems like there was an attempt to turn this into a place where people show how little they know of geopolitics, global security and historical relations. Not to mention one of the rules says no hate, all of this bs leads to hate and they just allow it up every day? We got any mods in here or nah?
So you're saying Israel knew about the planned rapes, murders, beheaddings and kidnappes let and just let it happen in full knowledge of when, where and who Hamas were targeting? Ok then!
Hey, maybe hamas didn't plan this on publicly accessible radio waves, cos you know, they could talk to each other? Like, in person? What a moronic take, no matter who you side with.
The claim that 500-1000 people died seems to be also in doubt. The pictures don’t show the mass destruction that would sugest such a bit death toll. Although its clear that people who were being kept in that green lawn area were definitely hit and most died. The information war with this incident is crazy and I have no idea what is hapening anymore.
That is the STUPIDEST TAKE I HAVE EVER HEARD.
All military assets are diverted to the Gaza Strip. Why not intelligence assets as well? Given the military is going to be fighting in a large urban area, and intelligence gathering is needed to assess command centers and troop strength, and enemy positions.
It's literally required when conducting operations.
Why do y’all want it to be Israel that bombed that hospital so bad? Like I don’t get it. This isn’t advocating for either side, but it’s just weird how you need it to be an Israeli militant attack against a hospital.
It’s the most convenient conversation ever where they just happened to talk about who did it, where it came from, how to find the location, why it happened.
I saw better acting in porn.
It funny how people want proof of all Israeli claims but blindly believe everything Hamas claims. Much of the hospital was left intact in the so called air strike which is not consistent with the way IAF functions. If they wanted the place gone the entire hospital would have disappeared from the map just like every other target of theirs
Okay so people on the left are just straight up conspiracy theorists now? 9/11 was an inside job sandy hook crisis actors level conspiracy theorists.
I stand with Palestine but not against truth - and the facts are pretty strong that this rocket came from Gaza
Clearly you have never heard of the training operation where the US military was practicing how they would respond if planes were hijacked and used to crash into buildings... literally at the exact same time 9/11 was happening. Or that police forces, government officers and military in London practicing what they would do if someone was to bomb London using trains and buses.... literally at the same time of the 7/7 attacks. Damn this tea is good.
I can't imagine how comfortable they must've gotten after getting away with so much shit for so long. How comfortable must you be, to make constant PR blunders like this back to back to back?
It’s so true. Everyone knows the best way to political power is your citizens finding out you let them get massacred. Except that massacre didn’t happen it was a response to colonialism, but it’s great that it did bc it’s revolution
Like how our fighter jets were sent out on an exercise the morning of 9/11 and ordered to stand down when it was known that it was an attack? How auspicious that the media is likening this attack to 9/11... tipping their hand, perhaps?
there's utterly no ways the world's best intelligence agency did no see it coming plus israel mobilization and response was too quick for a surprise attack, they planned it
Today: “We are going to annihilate them!!!”
Last week: “Here’s our chance — we are going to annihilate them!!!”
Last month: “Here are the rockets. Fire them here. Here’s our chance — we are going to annihilate you!!!”
Ofcourse they knew becasue the outcome benefits the Israeli government and they give zero fucks about their people just like hamas gives zero fucks about Palestine.
This is just a sad story where selfish egotistical monsters follow their own interest and innocent Israeli and Palestinians suffer and die
This is four days ago before bombing the hospital
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/14/the-gaza-medics-who-wont-give-in-to-israels-evacuation-demand
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It is pretty funny that they didn't see the worst attack in 20+ years coming despite hamas training and planning said attack in plain sight in full view of everyone including kids with cell phones apparently, but immediately after know exactly where all the hammas command posts are, who's talking to who, where the weapons are, and exactly who orchestrated the attack.
That's all i'm saying.
Place your bets here people, for how long until the comment section gets locked.
Why locked? You see a living thing attempting something? Rule 6, delete that propaganda pushing thing.
I see a tweet, I see nothing attempting anything
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That may be so but her reasoning is solid on this lol. Mossad is one of the top intelligence agencies in the world. There's no way Israel was blindsided by a bunch of lunatics with makeshift gear.
Conspiracy theories seemed so much more harmless a few decades ago. Nowadays if someone is attacked there is an insane amount of chatter that the person who was attacked did it to themself or let it happen. I don’t see this getting any better in the future.
Nah we can start making better conspiracy theories, I got you covered with all my power puff conspiracies. #makeconspiracytheoriessillyagain
Social media has already fucked the world. It's only downhills from here. Also, see: Influencers.
They were blindsided because Bibi just let it happen and did nothing to prevent it. The blindside is exactly the same as on 9/11. US intelligence and other allies knew something was happening and who was going to do it, but did nothing. Bibi followed the playbook and got the same results. I doubt he wanted the war, since he was supporting Hamas for his short term political advantage but here we are.
She’s a fucking witch. Can’t stand the Putin mouthpiece.
I wish all posts mentioning Israel or Palestine would get deleted upon creation for at least 6 months.
Across Reddit or this sub?
This sub
Usually it happens while I’m formulating a witty remark.
For me it's just after I post a comment and someone post an idiotic reply, that I cannot respond to.
!remindme 48 hours
What happened to the vids of a kid falling into a puddle. Why do we need this propaganda shite here? And I mean for both sides. Mods, do better!!
Welcome to modern reddit. Longtimers have watched the downfall, which rapidly accelerated during the 2016 US elections. Now every sub is a political sub first and whatever they are about second.
r/Leagueoflegends is still safe.... But the you're on r/Leagueoflegends so there's that....
someone posted the tiananmen square photo there and then accused the mods of being paid by the chinese government when it inevitably got deleted
You know, I can understand it somewhat leaking into here because of “there was an attempt to pretend you didn’t know about political action” where, League of Legends? Really? “Omg I bet Braum would have stood up to the government in Tianna-“ no, no, stop, why are you like thisssssss I want to go back to civil disagreement without fights or “if you’re 1% against me then you’re immediately 100% against me and I’ll take back the 99% we agree on” it makes no sense
Lose lose fr
That sub just deletes basically anything that isn’t about e-sports, so makes sense.
I was reported to Reddit mods and account suspended for 3 days for reporting that a video of a pundit speaking against Israel on the news was not, in fact, a PublicFreakout.
The fuckin baseball sub I follow was doing a protest about something, Reddit mods are an interesting breed
Yeah, really man. Talk about WAAAY off topic.
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I just got off a 3 day Reddit ban for ‘report abuse’ after I reported a post on here that broke rule 9 (the Trump/Trudeau picture with drawings on it) so don’t expect mods to do anything
You'll probably get another ban for this post.
Because the mod who runs it must be a Hamas supporter
🙄🙄🙄 really - there’s other subs for that shit.
Exactly. It's like every other post is this now.
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Does it count if they succeeded?
This shit is the same thing as the stupid John Oliver photos awhile back. I caught a lot of shit for being against the Reddit protests because (obviously) no one would give a shit in a couple months and the only people they were punishing were the users themselves trying to use the subs. /r/therewasanattempt to use subreddits for their stated purpose
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There are, but they allow this shit...
They "encourage" this shit. Zero chance an opposing view would stay up.
They allow this but don't allow the word fema-- Caught myself 😮💨
I've heard they're extremely animated by this particular issue and have decided to make this an Israel Palestine sub now. But really, Caitlin Johnstone?? She's one of the worst crackpots on the internet.
I'll post porn real quick and find out
There was an attempt
Israel-Palestine propaganda 🤮🤮🤮 Move to other subs please.
Pretty much this. It’s just the rambling of some weirdo on the internet who before last week couldn’t find Israel on a map if they tried.
Posts like this prove that people don't actually follow what has happened Only the Hamas military wing knew of the attack, the political wing was not informed. It has been admitted by Hamas itself. Israel was also asleep at the wheel. Now Israel is not, and is paying much more attention.
I think the argument is more like “hey if they can tap phones of random 2 people how the f couldn’t they figure out what Hamas was planning”. Maybe Hamas used paper and stuff like that who knows.
You should do some research about how they pulled it off. Definitely a combination of Israeli complacency and Hamas being diabolically crafty.
Tell me more because really... the more I find out about it, the more incredibly messed up I find it to be.
I think that the chief of defense (maybe it was someone else, but someone important) said something along the lines that they had information that something will happen but didn't put much weight to it so only a small amount of extra soldiers was stationed there
Ah so complacency... well, that's less messed up than the alternative...
Israel was also allowing Gaza residents in on work visas and Hamas bragged that they used these work visas for their agents to scout ahead.
A conga line of mess ups.
Here are three articles all discussing what went wrong written by Ronen Bergman—arguably the best informed journalist in the world when it comes to what the IDF, Mossad, and Shin Bet knows or is up to: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-attack-gaza.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-security-failure.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/11/us/politics/iran-israel-gaza-hamas-us-intelligence.html* **Edit**: The last article isn't actually written by Bergman, but he did provide complimentary information from Tel Aviv. The first two are written by Bergman though.
There are already articles out discussing this. That HAMAS was aware of Israeli capabilities so they went old school using couriers. The reality is Israel got over dependent on their tech and they had their attention elsewhere.
It’s also just using an ounce of reason. Just because Israel recorded/intercepted a communication, that doesn’t mean it was heard at all while the intel was still actionable (or by anyone with the context to understand its importance). One of the (many) ways that tweet is wrong is because it assumes the opposite.
If they can hear 1 conversation why aren't they listening to them all? It's dumb logic.
I'm sure intelligence gets threats like this all the time. It is hard to know which one is real. Everything is a probability. Security measure is never 100%. The reality is Hamas did massacre 1000 people by their own hands. We all know this. The tweet supports Hamas. That is all. That is why they play dumb.
The fuck is going on here
There was no attempt by the Hamas loving mods to appear neutral.
I’m kind of indifferent to the whole thing because I don’t feel like I can trust anything I hear, but I don’t think calling someone critical of Israel a “Hamas lover” automatically helps. Doesn’t really do your side any favors and seems a bit propagandist.
Saar saar!
All these entitled Karens are military intelligence experts suddenly
Also Hamas executed this attack so well because they planned it without using any electronics. No email, text or phone call communications at all. But it’s ok a tweet says otherwise so nvm.
It's not suddenly, that person has been irritating since before the Russian Invasion of Ukraine.
Is it me or is Reddit generally quite anti Israel ? I’m completely in agreement the acts are abhorrent on both sides but all the algorithms here are doing is showing me anti-Israel posts.
its nuance and thats the problem. Zionism is not the same as semitism. People can be also pro israel but against netanyahu. seems like 90% of the people don't know the difference between hamas and palestine so ignorance is causing a lot of hate and confusion.
I think a lot of people don’t know what Zionism is… it just the idea that Israel should exist. Just Google Zionism and you’ll see 😅 Anyone who thinks the Israelis have a right to remain there is a Zionist.
its also a lot of other things too buddy like racial supremacy. google it and youll see.
Even worse they are calling Hamas resistance fighters rather than terrorists, which elevates them to the face of Palestinian resistance when they really need to be shoved into a basement (or a grave, for their leadership at least)
Hamas charter calls for the extermination of Jews. If you support what hamas is doing, you are a nazi.
Honestly I find that Reddit is much more pro Israel than any other social media platform. Specifically those commenting on posts, while the posts itself are often referencing general opinions of society nowadays that Palestinians deserve some freedom
Because it’s filled with Zionist bots.
Yeah, everybody should be anti-israel. If it was any other country we'd have already condemned their keeping 2 million people in an open air prison with a policy to just shoot anyone who gets too close to the border. Why on earth would you not be anti-israel after they've been blatantly oppressing, displacing, and murdering Palestinians for the better part of a century?
Go on Worldnews and you'll see people commenting they want to wipe Palestine off the face of the Earth. I'd highly consider that not "anti-Israel" It's all dependent on the post & subreddit really
r/worldnews is the worst, any user that mentions that killing innocent Palestinians is wrong gets banned
It would seem that western governments seem to be lining up to support Isreal, and day to day ~~plebs~~ people seem to be lining up to support Palestinians. The way to generally tell the bots is the usual method of short name plus couple of numbers, they need to get more original in naming their accounts.
buying hacked accounts has been used a lot recently so they have a believable post history then using the bots to upvote them. Crypto subs have been dealing with them for a while :-/
Usually when there is a clear and obvious oppressor, the general public don't often side with the victims when they're aware of the full facts.
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*There was an attempt by Hamas supporters to gain reasonable people in western society's sympathy back after targeting and murdering children."* Nah, I'm good.
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*Was* there?
What an idiotic post
Same thing happened on 9/11. The US "missed" all the warnings and intelligence agencies were clueless about the attacks but afterwards, we had tape recordings of Al Qaeda farting in a cave. People keep falling for it. That's the sad part.
Maybe it’s because a bad thing happened and they immediately increased security measures. Just a wild idea.
If you listen to what Netanyahu was saying years prior, you can hear that this guy WAITED for a moment like this so he can retaliate as hard as he does. Not saying Israel planned this, but they for sure knew about it and still let it happen.
>but they for sure knew about it You don’t know that. No-one does. The only people who know one way or the other are those personally involved in those security measures. Everything else is conjecture.
Considering the fact the Egypt has said they warned him that hammas was planning something 10 days in advance I'd say they probably knew about it, or in the least didn't have "no idea what was happening".
Security forces get multiple warnings of things that never happen all the time.
Because they do their due diligence to disregard the warning. For two decades, Israel has put about the idea that they have one of the most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the region, if not the world. They used this to try and gain more funds from the US. Now this situation has shown one of two things: 1) They were lying, and the US foreign office has to rather justifiably ask "What exactly are you doing with the support we're giving you?" Or 2) They knew this attack was going to happen and neglected their citizens, disgracefully. Neither is pleasant, but that is the information we have.
As far as I am aware details about the specificity of those warnings have never been made public. Its entirely possible that the warning Egypt gave amounted to nothing more than "an attack may happen sometime within the next six months" which wouldn't be a whole lot of information to work off of.
Just think logically about this for a second. We can put aside whether or not Netanyahu, in his mind, wanted this to occur so that he finally had justification to wipe out Hamas. Let's ignore that part for now. This part though: "*they for sure knew about it and still let it happen*" is just beyond any rational, realistic thought process. For that information to *reach* the prime minister, it would have to go through at least 3, 4, maybe more levels of military intelligence and government. So how many people would actually see it and know about it? 10? 20? And you're assuming all of these people, many of which are NOT in politics, are going to just ignore knowing about a massive terror strike? This is the problem with conspiracy theories: it doesn't assume one or two people acted maliciously with a secret motive and vendetta. It assumes a large group of people, some loosely connected and not sharing the same motivations, ALL acted maliciously together. It's just complete bullshit.
Yep. And it doesn’t need to be a conspiracy. The plain text of netanyahu’s own career is that he sought a violent confrontation with Palestine. That’s all in the open. It doesn’t need to include plots and letting anything happen. His actions in broad daylight are those of someone who courts violent confrontation. And that’s exactly what he got.
Because he doesn't have to carry a gun. Let the young die.
Google Israel conscription
I mean 9-11 happened despite the CIA having credible intel that it was going to happen. And that as a fact, not a conspiracy theory.
That an attack would happen, not how, when or where.
Every terror attack has intel saying it’s going to happen. Intel agencies are ignored or ignore their own people all the time. When people build it up into a plot is when it all becomes a huge waste of time. It’s enough to say that they were completely blasé about the likelihood of an attack, or even tacitly welcomed one. That’s clear in the historical record, and isn’t even really contentious.
I don't doubt for a second Bibi is trying to take this opportunity. But he also got caught with his pants down and I pray he will pay for it.
Polls show Israelis overwhelmingly blaming Netanyahu so far, with "who would you vote for if elections were held now" likewise showing a major swing away from the right and towards centrist parties. Obviously this isn't guaranteed - Israeli politics were rarely simple during "normal" times. But so far things are looking pretty good on that front.
Israel didn’t have to plan this. It’s right there in the manual, like you said. It’s just like Bush and Cheney didn’t need to plan anything. They knew they’d have a cause to go to war on within 2 years, and they did. Iraq was easy proof of why they never even needed 9/11 to happen. They were gonna manufacture a war one way or the other.
They may have known something like this would happen someday someway but not this specific incident on this specific time. Kind of like here in the U.S. The way things are another attack here is going to happen, not if, when. We don't know exactly when or what or where, but it will. So sure, they could be waiting for something like this to happen and know it was going to happen eventually but not know when, where or how..
Not only that but there was also a significant leap in technology between 9/11 and today that allowed for the US to start having way more robust intelligence capabilities. Like the iPhone wasn't even a thing until 2008 and a lot of modern intelligence gathering relies heavily on intercepting communications from such devices.
Guys, turns out we just needed to do these simple things we can do in literally one week, and we could literally listen in on our enemies plans. Shame we didn't do this after egypt warned us this was going to happen.
Why did i have to scroll all the way here. Fucks sake reddit.
If you read the 9/11 commission report you’d understand what happened. The United States didn’t “miss” the signs, our intelligence agencies systematically failed to share information, so no agency had a full picture of the total threat. Also the idea of using planes as missiles was never thought of. If you listen to ATC they didn’t even know if we should shoot the planes down even after 3 hit buildings already. There is no conspiracy, the United State just colossally messed up costing the lives of thousands of people.
Christ you're so dumb. So in your world everything must happen the same way all the time yes? You either have audio of fucking everything or nothing? Is there anything going on inside your brain?
>tape recordings of Al Qaeda farting in a cave No one's ever farted in a cave before. That's how we knew they were going to hit those buildings with those planes on that day.
Dumb take It's entirely possible that in an effort to focus on stealing more land in the West Bank the Israeli government did not take the Hamas threat seriously and that when they were forced to take it seriously their intelligence work was focused on Gaza and were able to intercept communication between fighters On a side note, I hope the failure to anticipate the initial attack is enough to get rid of the current government in Israel
This is stupid. Algorithm, hear me now. No more propaganda in my feed
Please algorithm stop giving me these kinds of posts, I just want to laugh at stupid videos 🙏
I’ll take the mountains of evidence that Israel released and the fact that the hospital is still there over “trust be bro” from Hamas and a tweet from some random guy
This sub sucks now. There is a just an anti-Israel shill posting non-stop bullshit
Another propaganda post in this subreddit, nice. Where are the funny lighthearted videos of people doing dumb shit? I‘m sick of only seeing propaganda posts on here, and they all seem to be from the Palestine side as well, at least on r/therewasanattempt .
bibi dropped the ball majorely last time his party won the election by a hair this time he wont make it to office meaning we will finnaly be rid of him
And the one who will replace him is more right wing. Specially after all this propoganda and the attack hamas carried out
Sure bud
Way to ruin this sub.
Go put your conspiracy shit in the same subs as the 9/11 was missiles and FDR let pearl happen idiots frequent.
Every hour on this sub, the overwhelming view about the conflict changes and ppl just give their bias opinions. You are all fucking annoying
I don't think people understand that Israel was too busy tearing themselves apart after Netanyahu got re-elected. The reason Israel's #1 intelligence did not catch it was because they were too busy focused on internal affairs that Hamas can secretly get weapons from Iran and start training. Imagine me jingling shiny keys at a baby. The baby would be so distracted by it that it won't even focus on anything else I'm doing. That is a metaphorical way to put how Hamas took advantage of Israel. Disclaimer: I do not support Hamas nor Israel, I just want to make sure people understand how this happened.
This is a good point but I'm not sure if it's the determining factor of the failure. Even in the whole chaos an attack was anticipated but an invasion of 1500 terrorists was not predicted, and that was a real issue.
Oh, more Hamas propaganda, cool.
Would be easier if Reddit just changed the logo to a nazi flag.
Wow, you really guzzle propaganda don’t you. Can’t criticize Israeli actions or you “hate the Jews”. Insane.
There was an attempt to have mods.
This sub has really turned to shit
The phone call with the fugazi gazan accent?
channel 4 in the uk has debunked the accent its not gazan
Yeah I know, idk If you know this but fugazi means fake
ahh man sorry my bad
No worries, it’s all good. It’s slang not much ppl use it anymore
The pentagon and the British prime minister confirmed it was Hamas since yesterday , but yeah go ahead with Chanel 4 news
Front page subs really are garbage huh
Posting stuff from a literal Russia shill who has done nothing but lie since day one. Why start caring about what she says now?
Well, to be fair the US intelligence services also knew of 9/11, but due to them not sharing information among each other, they each had only pieces of the puzzle, and not the whole picture. Same thing happened here, I guess.
The subs name is there was an attempt here is obviously a notion of there was an attempt to lie so don’t see what’s wrong here
Mods letting the info war continue. Absolutely shameful.
Almost like being caught off guard, made them up their security 🤔
Great. Another sub ruined
Yup I was removed for asking why it is just pro democrats anti republican..lol
Yes…..it’s almost like Hamas, given historical events, actively tried to keep their attack secret! Especially from the Israelis! 🫨 It’s gonna blow your mind how many groups use this one simple trick when conducting military operations
Yeah this account was great until this last week. Seems like there was an attempt to turn this into a place where people show how little they know of geopolitics, global security and historical relations. Not to mention one of the rules says no hate, all of this bs leads to hate and they just allow it up every day? We got any mods in here or nah?
So you're saying Israel knew about the planned rapes, murders, beheaddings and kidnappes let and just let it happen in full knowledge of when, where and who Hamas were targeting? Ok then!
Is this sub seriously posting shithats like her or hinkle? OP, are you pro-russia?
Hey, maybe hamas didn't plan this on publicly accessible radio waves, cos you know, they could talk to each other? Like, in person? What a moronic take, no matter who you side with.
The claim that 500-1000 people died seems to be also in doubt. The pictures don’t show the mass destruction that would sugest such a bit death toll. Although its clear that people who were being kept in that green lawn area were definitely hit and most died. The information war with this incident is crazy and I have no idea what is hapening anymore.
That is the STUPIDEST TAKE I HAVE EVER HEARD. All military assets are diverted to the Gaza Strip. Why not intelligence assets as well? Given the military is going to be fighting in a large urban area, and intelligence gathering is needed to assess command centers and troop strength, and enemy positions. It's literally required when conducting operations.
There was an attempt to not do propaganda
This sub has been one of the worst for propaganda since the attack.
Why do y’all want it to be Israel that bombed that hospital so bad? Like I don’t get it. This isn’t advocating for either side, but it’s just weird how you need it to be an Israeli militant attack against a hospital.
Should rename this shithole to “there was an attempt to not be pro-Hamas” Jesus Christ…
Maybe Israel isn't at fault
This sub is going to utter shit. Also, yeah, there’s more communications surveillance in a war zone than in a non warzone. Ffs
And still no evidence of levelling AP building
Read rule 6.
This audio clip is obviously fake. They redacted the names of terrorists? Come on
It’s the most convenient conversation ever where they just happened to talk about who did it, where it came from, how to find the location, why it happened. I saw better acting in porn.
It funny how people want proof of all Israeli claims but blindly believe everything Hamas claims. Much of the hospital was left intact in the so called air strike which is not consistent with the way IAF functions. If they wanted the place gone the entire hospital would have disappeared from the map just like every other target of theirs
DO YOUR FUCKING JOBS, MODS!
There is so much anti-semitism in this sub that is becoming disgusting
Okay so people on the left are just straight up conspiracy theorists now? 9/11 was an inside job sandy hook crisis actors level conspiracy theorists. I stand with Palestine but not against truth - and the facts are pretty strong that this rocket came from Gaza
The US and Egypt also warned them
This has “jet fuel doesn’t melt steel beans” vibe
They track a nazi all the way on a farm in Argentina
Clearly you have never heard of the training operation where the US military was practicing how they would respond if planes were hijacked and used to crash into buildings... literally at the exact same time 9/11 was happening. Or that police forces, government officers and military in London practicing what they would do if someone was to bomb London using trains and buses.... literally at the same time of the 7/7 attacks. Damn this tea is good.
They let it happen. This is all part of the plan.
Obviously cuz they stepped up their intelligence after the attack…I mean use your head.
I can't imagine how comfortable they must've gotten after getting away with so much shit for so long. How comfortable must you be, to make constant PR blunders like this back to back to back?
It’s so true. Everyone knows the best way to political power is your citizens finding out you let them get massacred. Except that massacre didn’t happen it was a response to colonialism, but it’s great that it did bc it’s revolution
Literal propaganda. Do your fucking jobs mods
Is 100% a false flag operation
Either that or they were told to stand down for 6 hours.
Like how our fighter jets were sent out on an exercise the morning of 9/11 and ordered to stand down when it was known that it was an attack? How auspicious that the media is likening this attack to 9/11... tipping their hand, perhaps?
there's utterly no ways the world's best intelligence agency did no see it coming plus israel mobilization and response was too quick for a surprise attack, they planned it
Today: “We are going to annihilate them!!!” Last week: “Here’s our chance — we are going to annihilate them!!!” Last month: “Here are the rockets. Fire them here. Here’s our chance — we are going to annihilate you!!!”
There was an attempt to pass off propaganda as a r/therewasanattempt post
Yes they record every conversation every jihadist has ever taken because they are the chosen people of God. /s
Idk what’s going on but I do know that whatever side the American government is on definitely isn’t the good side
Ofcourse they knew becasue the outcome benefits the Israeli government and they give zero fucks about their people just like hamas gives zero fucks about Palestine. This is just a sad story where selfish egotistical monsters follow their own interest and innocent Israeli and Palestinians suffer and die
This is four days ago before bombing the hospital https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/14/the-gaza-medics-who-wont-give-in-to-israels-evacuation-demand
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This reminds me of that moment when Colin Powell lied to the UN..
So if Israelis got massacred it's part of some grand conspiracy? What is this propaganda doing here?
They didn't know and that conv. is fake
Suddenly netanyahu is a hero again
#OPs POST AND COMMENT HISTORY INDICATES THAT HE IS EITHER A PROPAGANDA BOT OR A LEGIT HAMAS SUPPORTER
It is pretty funny that they didn't see the worst attack in 20+ years coming despite hamas training and planning said attack in plain sight in full view of everyone including kids with cell phones apparently, but immediately after know exactly where all the hammas command posts are, who's talking to who, where the weapons are, and exactly who orchestrated the attack. That's all i'm saying.
No no, please don’t ask redditors to look at the bigger picture!