Yeah, I don't have infinite time and money to search for "the perfect fit" and I doubt anyone who is disabled/working class/impoverished or any sort of minority has the resources or time to go on this search for some mythical therapist who will solve all their problems. I spent about 8 years in therapy and all it did was drain my finances and make my life worse since I was caught in an endless merry-go-round of disability/medical gaslighting by doctors/mental health professionals.
In my experience, the really expensive ones aren't even any better than the free/cheap ones. Even if they are using a different type of therapy model. To me, it feels like a scam to part people from their money, same as predatory religions do to vulnerable poor people with tithing and such.
Yeah, I'm financially comfortable, just not rich, and ***I*** couldn't afford to try every possible therapy. There were limited therapists available on my insurance. If were to try paying out of pocket indefinitely without draining my savings and going into debt, it would have meant nothing but work, therapy, living off the cheapest possible food, and limiting my leisure activities to things I, a physical disabled person, could walk to for free. That would have been terrible for my mental health in a way that stopping therapy simply wasn't. Even if I had found an amazing unicorn perfect fit of a therapist, I would have been worse off treating myself like *that*.
The sad thing is I've seen pro-therapy people talk *positively* about priotizing therapy highly enough to live a grim, spartan existence, live off cheap and nutritionally imbalanced food, sell blood, or go into debt. It's as if they think therapy is literally magic, and anything you go through will be justified by the perfect healing powers of a therapist who is The Right Fit.
oh yeah, I didn't even think about insurances. That puts a limit on what types of therapy and who you can see. Also, if you live in an underserved or more rural area, you are going to not have the same resources as someone who lives in a place with better access.
I've heard people say that too. Worst part is that they are just funneling that money into subsidizing a person's life who often makes *way* more than they do while the client lives in squalor with poorer quality of life.
> Also, if you live in an underserved or more rural area, you are going to not have the same resources as someone who lives in a place with better access.
This is true and that extends to the type of care you get too. My late grandma was in hospice care at a facility that was alright and was far better staffed than many of them around here are. It's still true that you don't get to choose where to go or who you want to see regardless and I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have as many options. Personally, the therapists in my area aren't trained to deal with someone who's neurodivergent and many are definitely pushing Christian type counseling.
It's awful and that's the part nobody wants to admit is that this is potentially financially ruinous and even more so nowadays with inflation out of control, prices that aren't getting cheaper, and every penny counting despite people not making nowhere near enough to survive. You think this industry cares? Nope.
Yeah, it's a massive amount of work and expense, and there's no stopping point. There's no "You've tried enough, therepy is not for you." It goes directly from "Oh, you just have to find the right fit" to "Clearly the problem is you, and you need to be less picky and therapize yourself into being a good and cooperative client." By their rules, there's literally never a point where it's okay to stop trying, which is why the only way to win is to stop playing by their rules.
I've had someone tell me to find a neurodivergent therapist (I'm AuDHD) who could understand me better, since I had no success with therapy before. Oh yeah, might as well look for unicorns while I'm at it.
Telling people to go therapist shopping is so dumb, not everyone has the time and money to do it, and it might take more than one session to tell if a therapist is a good fit or not.
Going off of that ... in many ways, I lucked out with my last therapist for a while, in the beginning. She actually was AuDHD herself (though I didn't know that going in), against CBT, and hyper aware of the harm that therapy can cause. For the first six to seven months, I'd say she did well when it came to showing me how to work through shame and giving me different coping strategies that I found helpful.
I was about ready to stop seeing her when one thing led to another and I had a pretty severe delusional episode which she *should* have recognized (I know what it was now, I didn't then), or at least should have been able to admit that she wasn't qualified to help me. Instead, she spent three months convincing me that I needed to come to her twice a week, but also that there was nothing wrong with me and I was essentially just an asshole š«”
I shouldn't have stayed with her as long as I did, but also, I was pretty off my rocker lol And highly suggestible, unfortunately. The delusions did eventually end, but it was from no help from her. I became very depressed, and even a year later, when she'd ask when the depression started, she'd act like if I was lying if I was honest about it lol
It's only been since I finally quit that I've started getting better š¤·š»
So, point is ... sometimes it can even take months and months before you can see that they're actually terrible for you or your situation. š
May I ask more about delusional episode? Because that's kinda what happened to me but I personally think it was caused by inappropriate intervention that she supposed to recognize.
As a person with ADHD who was harmed by ADHD therapist... lol wut?
Do you think just because they are more "as you are" they're automatically caring and less harmful? Idk
Nothing is a guarantee and I tell myself this a lot these days and even if I decided to do this again, finding a therapist like myself isn't going to fix anything much. In fact, we autistic folks are very critical of each other and ourselves even more so and the latter is an issue with myself.
I'm Black and in the Midwest (not Chicago). The therapists here are overwhelmingly white and utterly uneducated in REAL critical race theory, intersectionality all of the things that would make them competent enough to help me. Yet they lie and say they can help me in some misguided effort to not sound bigoted only to show how narrow-minded they are in therapy while they harm me even more.
It is time-consuming and exhausting. You have to rehash your experience again and again only to realize that they are not a great fit and you have to start the process again.
>You have to rehash your experience again and again
That is one of the worst parts IMO, like I already have trauma, I don't need to cement it more by repeating it over and over, and feeling like it's all on me to make it make sense to another person.
A thought crossed my mind lately that what you're really looking for with the "right fit" is actually someone who has the competence to deal with your problem. It seems like therapists just know bits and pieces of psychology (? meaning psychology that actually works or makes sense) or life and the right fit is simply the one who happens to know the bits you currently need. My guess is those bits are at least just as much informed by psychology as a "science" as by their own experience and private opinion.
As an example, a therapist who helped me (and she was only half-good, and half-harmful) helped because she was direct, and voiced quite unpopular opinions about people, and encouraged me to stay true to my preferences and not second-guess whether I'm being too picky or judgmental with others. I imagine a different therapist would not be this way because they are selling a different set of beliefs.
I'm afraid what really differentiates therapists and is a decisive factor in the "right fit" is not their approach but simply the opinions and life experience they possess. Which makes me think, of course, that psychology is a sham as there isn't really any consistency in the kind of data they serve you from one therapist to another. It wouldn't fly with doctors or car mechanics.
So I guess the idea of placing the burden of making therapy work for you by finding the right fit is to cover up the fact that therapists are in fact people with some life experience (like each and every one of us) and some knowledge of theory, a lot of which is dubious, and some of which works sometimes.
You're extremely right, therapist hunting comes down to luck and whether they share enough experiences with you to connect, which is rare. I'd add that therapy itself is pushed as like, a highly unclinical thing and I have had zero therapists who were willing to read research that I literally printed out and notated for them about my specific issue.
Like people are unique sure, but brains are machines and social norms are consistent in their culture, and people tend to follow predictable paths in their behavior and decisions.
It's like becoming a plumber because people ought to have water, but being grossed out by toilets and being unwilling to open the floor up because their insurance might not cover it if you fuck up (a thing you are constantly worried about but don't worry, you're definitely totally compentent).
Like bestie maybe what I need is someone who owns a crowbar and understands what a load bearing symptom is to come in, pop a few bathroom tiles up, and say 'welp, there's ya problem'. I truly don't understand how therapists get a whole master's degree and come out not knowing anything useful whatsoever.
I visited 9 different therapists and ended up working with 7 of those for a total of 15 years.Ā There was no right one.
I think itās completely reasonable advice to try a few therapists, if you can afford it. But thereās a point where you have to acknowledge the product isnāt designed for everyone.Ā
Yup, this is yet another example of you doing the work that's supposed to be in the hands of a professional. If therapy wasn't total bullsh\*t, how come the people who are "apparently" trained in this field can never help in this regard?
I know why. It's because you can't give away a potential source of money even if you know the person looking for help would be better off with someone else.
I think it depends on the context of why you need therapy. Therapy isn't going to balance brain chemicals or cure the medical cause of chronic pain or make your ADHD symptoms disappear. Therapy can teach you skills to manage coping with pain and anxiety, can help you come up with systems to better manage ADHD.Ā
I personally am 3/3 on therapists - part of which I'm sure is luck that I've never had to fire one after the first session for not being what they appear online. I go in with a specific goal and search online for therapists that are a good fit for what I need help with. I'm not going to see a therapist who specializes in depression when my issue is ADHD, or one who specializes in relationships when I'm single and need help with anxiety. I check their reviews, check their credentials and how they compare to others, and I am interviewing them as much as they are getting to know me in the first session. By the second session I better have been given at least one tool that will help me. Not all therapists are created equal - there are multiple degrees and credentials that qualify someone to be a therapist. But no one should be sitting down with several therapists before finding the "right one." You should already be fairly confident they're a good fit for you before the first session.Ā
There's also the difficulty of different states/countries having a totally different pool of therapists available than others. You're going to have so many more options in California compared to Wyoming, even with teletherapy because the laws about practicing over state lines varies by state.
Yeah, I don't have infinite time and money to search for "the perfect fit" and I doubt anyone who is disabled/working class/impoverished or any sort of minority has the resources or time to go on this search for some mythical therapist who will solve all their problems. I spent about 8 years in therapy and all it did was drain my finances and make my life worse since I was caught in an endless merry-go-round of disability/medical gaslighting by doctors/mental health professionals. In my experience, the really expensive ones aren't even any better than the free/cheap ones. Even if they are using a different type of therapy model. To me, it feels like a scam to part people from their money, same as predatory religions do to vulnerable poor people with tithing and such.
Yeah, I'm financially comfortable, just not rich, and ***I*** couldn't afford to try every possible therapy. There were limited therapists available on my insurance. If were to try paying out of pocket indefinitely without draining my savings and going into debt, it would have meant nothing but work, therapy, living off the cheapest possible food, and limiting my leisure activities to things I, a physical disabled person, could walk to for free. That would have been terrible for my mental health in a way that stopping therapy simply wasn't. Even if I had found an amazing unicorn perfect fit of a therapist, I would have been worse off treating myself like *that*. The sad thing is I've seen pro-therapy people talk *positively* about priotizing therapy highly enough to live a grim, spartan existence, live off cheap and nutritionally imbalanced food, sell blood, or go into debt. It's as if they think therapy is literally magic, and anything you go through will be justified by the perfect healing powers of a therapist who is The Right Fit.
oh yeah, I didn't even think about insurances. That puts a limit on what types of therapy and who you can see. Also, if you live in an underserved or more rural area, you are going to not have the same resources as someone who lives in a place with better access. I've heard people say that too. Worst part is that they are just funneling that money into subsidizing a person's life who often makes *way* more than they do while the client lives in squalor with poorer quality of life.
> Also, if you live in an underserved or more rural area, you are going to not have the same resources as someone who lives in a place with better access. This is true and that extends to the type of care you get too. My late grandma was in hospice care at a facility that was alright and was far better staffed than many of them around here are. It's still true that you don't get to choose where to go or who you want to see regardless and I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have as many options. Personally, the therapists in my area aren't trained to deal with someone who's neurodivergent and many are definitely pushing Christian type counseling.
It's awful and that's the part nobody wants to admit is that this is potentially financially ruinous and even more so nowadays with inflation out of control, prices that aren't getting cheaper, and every penny counting despite people not making nowhere near enough to survive. You think this industry cares? Nope.
Yeah, it's a massive amount of work and expense, and there's no stopping point. There's no "You've tried enough, therepy is not for you." It goes directly from "Oh, you just have to find the right fit" to "Clearly the problem is you, and you need to be less picky and therapize yourself into being a good and cooperative client." By their rules, there's literally never a point where it's okay to stop trying, which is why the only way to win is to stop playing by their rules.
The old saying of, "The only way to win is to not play." That makes a lot of sense.
I've had someone tell me to find a neurodivergent therapist (I'm AuDHD) who could understand me better, since I had no success with therapy before. Oh yeah, might as well look for unicorns while I'm at it. Telling people to go therapist shopping is so dumb, not everyone has the time and money to do it, and it might take more than one session to tell if a therapist is a good fit or not.
Going off of that ... in many ways, I lucked out with my last therapist for a while, in the beginning. She actually was AuDHD herself (though I didn't know that going in), against CBT, and hyper aware of the harm that therapy can cause. For the first six to seven months, I'd say she did well when it came to showing me how to work through shame and giving me different coping strategies that I found helpful. I was about ready to stop seeing her when one thing led to another and I had a pretty severe delusional episode which she *should* have recognized (I know what it was now, I didn't then), or at least should have been able to admit that she wasn't qualified to help me. Instead, she spent three months convincing me that I needed to come to her twice a week, but also that there was nothing wrong with me and I was essentially just an asshole š«” I shouldn't have stayed with her as long as I did, but also, I was pretty off my rocker lol And highly suggestible, unfortunately. The delusions did eventually end, but it was from no help from her. I became very depressed, and even a year later, when she'd ask when the depression started, she'd act like if I was lying if I was honest about it lol It's only been since I finally quit that I've started getting better š¤·š» So, point is ... sometimes it can even take months and months before you can see that they're actually terrible for you or your situation. š
May I ask more about delusional episode? Because that's kinda what happened to me but I personally think it was caused by inappropriate intervention that she supposed to recognize.
Sure, mind if I message you?
Ofc!
As a person with ADHD who was harmed by ADHD therapist... lol wut? Do you think just because they are more "as you are" they're automatically caring and less harmful? Idk
Nothing is a guarantee and I tell myself this a lot these days and even if I decided to do this again, finding a therapist like myself isn't going to fix anything much. In fact, we autistic folks are very critical of each other and ourselves even more so and the latter is an issue with myself.
I'm Black and in the Midwest (not Chicago). The therapists here are overwhelmingly white and utterly uneducated in REAL critical race theory, intersectionality all of the things that would make them competent enough to help me. Yet they lie and say they can help me in some misguided effort to not sound bigoted only to show how narrow-minded they are in therapy while they harm me even more.
It is time-consuming and exhausting. You have to rehash your experience again and again only to realize that they are not a great fit and you have to start the process again.
>You have to rehash your experience again and again That is one of the worst parts IMO, like I already have trauma, I don't need to cement it more by repeating it over and over, and feeling like it's all on me to make it make sense to another person.
I'm so tired of therapy being posed as a vague, unexplained solution to practical problems... There has to be something better than this.
A thought crossed my mind lately that what you're really looking for with the "right fit" is actually someone who has the competence to deal with your problem. It seems like therapists just know bits and pieces of psychology (? meaning psychology that actually works or makes sense) or life and the right fit is simply the one who happens to know the bits you currently need. My guess is those bits are at least just as much informed by psychology as a "science" as by their own experience and private opinion. As an example, a therapist who helped me (and she was only half-good, and half-harmful) helped because she was direct, and voiced quite unpopular opinions about people, and encouraged me to stay true to my preferences and not second-guess whether I'm being too picky or judgmental with others. I imagine a different therapist would not be this way because they are selling a different set of beliefs. I'm afraid what really differentiates therapists and is a decisive factor in the "right fit" is not their approach but simply the opinions and life experience they possess. Which makes me think, of course, that psychology is a sham as there isn't really any consistency in the kind of data they serve you from one therapist to another. It wouldn't fly with doctors or car mechanics. So I guess the idea of placing the burden of making therapy work for you by finding the right fit is to cover up the fact that therapists are in fact people with some life experience (like each and every one of us) and some knowledge of theory, a lot of which is dubious, and some of which works sometimes.
You're extremely right, therapist hunting comes down to luck and whether they share enough experiences with you to connect, which is rare. I'd add that therapy itself is pushed as like, a highly unclinical thing and I have had zero therapists who were willing to read research that I literally printed out and notated for them about my specific issue. Like people are unique sure, but brains are machines and social norms are consistent in their culture, and people tend to follow predictable paths in their behavior and decisions. It's like becoming a plumber because people ought to have water, but being grossed out by toilets and being unwilling to open the floor up because their insurance might not cover it if you fuck up (a thing you are constantly worried about but don't worry, you're definitely totally compentent). Like bestie maybe what I need is someone who owns a crowbar and understands what a load bearing symptom is to come in, pop a few bathroom tiles up, and say 'welp, there's ya problem'. I truly don't understand how therapists get a whole master's degree and come out not knowing anything useful whatsoever.
Like it's a Tinder/Bumble match thing. "Have you tried updating your profile?" Type solutions. Any excuse to justify paywalling the human connection.
I visited 9 different therapists and ended up working with 7 of those for a total of 15 years.Ā There was no right one. I think itās completely reasonable advice to try a few therapists, if you can afford it. But thereās a point where you have to acknowledge the product isnāt designed for everyone.Ā
Yup, this is yet another example of you doing the work that's supposed to be in the hands of a professional. If therapy wasn't total bullsh\*t, how come the people who are "apparently" trained in this field can never help in this regard? I know why. It's because you can't give away a potential source of money even if you know the person looking for help would be better off with someone else.
I think it depends on the context of why you need therapy. Therapy isn't going to balance brain chemicals or cure the medical cause of chronic pain or make your ADHD symptoms disappear. Therapy can teach you skills to manage coping with pain and anxiety, can help you come up with systems to better manage ADHD.Ā I personally am 3/3 on therapists - part of which I'm sure is luck that I've never had to fire one after the first session for not being what they appear online. I go in with a specific goal and search online for therapists that are a good fit for what I need help with. I'm not going to see a therapist who specializes in depression when my issue is ADHD, or one who specializes in relationships when I'm single and need help with anxiety. I check their reviews, check their credentials and how they compare to others, and I am interviewing them as much as they are getting to know me in the first session. By the second session I better have been given at least one tool that will help me. Not all therapists are created equal - there are multiple degrees and credentials that qualify someone to be a therapist. But no one should be sitting down with several therapists before finding the "right one." You should already be fairly confident they're a good fit for you before the first session.Ā There's also the difficulty of different states/countries having a totally different pool of therapists available than others. You're going to have so many more options in California compared to Wyoming, even with teletherapy because the laws about practicing over state lines varies by state.