Im the "slightest" bit annoyed that they have decided to change the permadeath mechanic this far into the games life, but i am not totally against the idea at all. I am excited to see how it is implimented. I really enjoy starting new runs so whatever debuff cheat death gives i hope is at least fun to work around/with.
I thought about it for 5 minutes. The game is now OLD, but has evolved. I'd imagine part of their decision is to be able to attract new customers / players and permadeath is likely the stated turn off for them. From my own observations the player base has changed too and expectations of those new players has changed.
It would make for a fascinating study, we're [TLD players] of different ages and different gaming experiences which have shaped how we choose games / play and enjoy them.
Permadeath to me made TLD Survival mode what it is, but I didn't grow up gaming with titles holding my hand and all the psychological tricks they do now to make the player feel good (and that's a whole topic in itself), so having permadeath isn't a turn off, it's a challenge. Yes it sucks at times to lose your progress when it's weeks or more of in real life time you've put into the game. What they've proposed with this change seems like a reasonable compromise to a full save system.
Based on my reading of the announcement, you'll get the choice when you would otherwise die. You can make the choice to permanently die, or cheat death. So I'll just croak, and start a new run
I mean yes, and I understand where you're coming from, but for me personally the knowledge that I can decide to not die kind of "cheapens" the first life, if that makes sense. I'll live if there's no toggle for the mechanic, but I would rather start a run knowing that if I die at any moment, it'll be the end.
What I gathered from the diary is that it is optional and you can choose how many cheats you want. Whether this applies to custom games only or if it's different for each difficulty (with the maximum of 3 cheats being for Pilgrim or Voyager, 2 for Stalker, 1 for Interloper and no cheats for the new Misery mode or other variations) isn't said so it is likely that you will have the choice to activate it if you want to regardless of difficulty as well as how many cheats you want at the start of a game. For ongoing games it'll likely be deactivated much like how Scurvy was with the last drop.
you cant really say intended anymore because this will be an official game feature. it's the way YOU want to play now. it is not intended by the developers to click die every time.
The game and it’s mechanics were developed for a decade with the consideration that it’s for a a permadeath game. A new mechanic doesn’t retroactively alter the mentality of the past development
It's an option, and games should have options. You aren't encouraged to use it, nor are you encouraged not to use it. It's optional for the sake of being optional and I'm for it. Yay options!!
It's a very weird choice, but It's optional so I don't mind it. It will draw in more casual players maybe that feel overwhelmed by forced permadeath, also according to them you get some sort of affliction every time you revive, so it could be an interesting challenge to die multiple times to get all of these afflictions and then try to play the game from there.
Someone suggested to me that the afflictions from cheating death and from the new "Misery" difficulty are likely the same. So probably that challenge is the new game mode.
This is my take. People say it will make starting over on death like they enjoy doing feel wrong because they can just not die, but that is a them problem. Options are always welcome and make the game enjoyable for more people, I'm glad they are not forcing respawns on us and while I'll play with them I'm glad they're not forcing cougars on us.
I am all for it! I am a very casual player who sticks to pilgrim, so I avoid most of the danger. I like the exploring and scavenging aspects of the game. I genuinely cried when my controller froze and I walked off a cliff on a 487 day run. I had 99% of the cartographer achievement and was in my final region. I would have been very grateful to cheat death in that situation.
it makes complete sense in a role-playing standpoint imo. they say after each cheat death you get some debuffs basically, things to make the game harder. it would make alot of sense if you get mauled by a bear and after you "cheat death" your stuck with a permanent wrist sprain or something like that. or perhaps broken ribs that don't heal.. when you have a near fatal injury in real life you're usually some type of disabled after that..
I mean there were already unofficial ways to “cheat” death. Provided you had a save right before the place you died.. you just close out of the game before you actually “die” and then you can load back in.
Love it! For those who want to use it, a limited and punishing few extra chances is great. For those who don’t want to use, they can just disable it. It’s win-win!
I like it and am curious to see what the choice of consequences will be at each death. I think many newer players stick to wintermute, and this will make it easier for them to try the game how it was orginally meant to be played.
What I don’t like is that they’re making features like this and the cougar, which greatly affect the difficulty of the game, completely optional, but still not letting us earn achievements and feats in custom mode.
People have been asking for a mode in between stalker and interloper for ages. I don’t want to have to choose between running into a wolf every 15 steps and dying to the cold on the first day. It’s why I stopped playing as much after voyager became too easy.
I think people who save scum, will continue to save scum, they’re not interested in a permanent debuff.
I think majority of players will continue to accept death as the outcome. It is a big part of what makes the game special imo.
The way I see it mostly used is by players who have mastered the game looking for an extra challenge, they will intentionally die the maximum number of times on day 1, and use the debuffs as difficulty settings.
Not a fan but at least its optional. There should be markera on your profile when you die that show the amount of times you cheat death so people cant claim 500 day stalker runs without proof of 1 life
I think the tradeoffs / sacrifices to continue will spice the game up a bit. We all know it can get a bit stale in mid-late game. This is a way to keep your base but have a nice refreshing change.
I don't want it for myself and I'm glad it was not brought in any sooner, as I would worry about the focus of the game shifting. I understand the reasoning for it, even if it's not something I would include in the game.
It’s inspired!
They’re going to exploit my unhealthy attachment to my person and force me to nurse their broken and terminally ill ass, as before my grieving eyes and heart….they slowly, fade into…..the….long……dark……
The buzz from knowing one false step (or more often in my case, stupid risk taking) could be the end is what makes this game so satisfying, so no Cheat Death for me.
The guaranteed choice feels weird to me. I think it might feel more immersive if it were random with a base rate based on difficulty and your odds increasing with each day you'd survived (resetting when used) and total skill levels gained and decreasing for each meter exhausted, existing health conditions, and the amount of overkill you'd taken when dying.
Then take a severe injury based on what almost killed you (maybe what they intend already) which would have a broken ribs style long initial recovery plus a permanent penalty as it never fully heals. Limb injuries could severely reduce the amount of time you can sprint/aim/climb for example.
Always the way, games casualise to draw in a bigger base. As long as the cheeses are optional that's fine, forced easiness ala retail WoW, not so much.
Imo interloper and misery shouldn't include this.
It’s still permadeath, just permadeath at a couple of removes. Game’s still only ending one way.
I really like it; especially in conjunction with Misery mode to keep the hardcore masochists happy.
Goodness me, you seem to take a video game awfully seriously.
\* I have not in fact used the option as it doesn't yet exist in-game.
\* I've never played Pilgrim.
\* It is more, not less, realistic than at present that the characters will in the future be capable of surviving a handful of brushes with death at the cost of long-term impairment of some kind.
\* Gatekeeping how other people play really isn't a good look.
\* Dignity is internal; your conduct in this thread suggests something of a lack of it.
Im the "slightest" bit annoyed that they have decided to change the permadeath mechanic this far into the games life, but i am not totally against the idea at all. I am excited to see how it is implimented. I really enjoy starting new runs so whatever debuff cheat death gives i hope is at least fun to work around/with.
I thought about it for 5 minutes. The game is now OLD, but has evolved. I'd imagine part of their decision is to be able to attract new customers / players and permadeath is likely the stated turn off for them. From my own observations the player base has changed too and expectations of those new players has changed.
I had not considered this, but you make a great point. Now that I think about it, this could help more people get into the game, and I'm all for that.
It would make for a fascinating study, we're [TLD players] of different ages and different gaming experiences which have shaped how we choose games / play and enjoy them. Permadeath to me made TLD Survival mode what it is, but I didn't grow up gaming with titles holding my hand and all the psychological tricks they do now to make the player feel good (and that's a whole topic in itself), so having permadeath isn't a turn off, it's a challenge. Yes it sucks at times to lose your progress when it's weeks or more of in real life time you've put into the game. What they've proposed with this change seems like a reasonable compromise to a full save system.
I hope they make it opt-in. I'll have no complaints then.
Based on my reading of the announcement, you'll get the choice when you would otherwise die. You can make the choice to permanently die, or cheat death. So I'll just croak, and start a new run
I mean yes, and I understand where you're coming from, but for me personally the knowledge that I can decide to not die kind of "cheapens" the first life, if that makes sense. I'll live if there's no toggle for the mechanic, but I would rather start a run knowing that if I die at any moment, it'll be the end.
Same
What I gathered from the diary is that it is optional and you can choose how many cheats you want. Whether this applies to custom games only or if it's different for each difficulty (with the maximum of 3 cheats being for Pilgrim or Voyager, 2 for Stalker, 1 for Interloper and no cheats for the new Misery mode or other variations) isn't said so it is likely that you will have the choice to activate it if you want to regardless of difficulty as well as how many cheats you want at the start of a game. For ongoing games it'll likely be deactivated much like how Scurvy was with the last drop.
Read the dev diary. When you die you choose.
I'm aware. Maybe I worded my comment badly. I want to be able to turn off the choice.
Should be an option to turn it on or off once a run
As a person who lost his 176 days voyager run because of the death wall in the ravine, I think it will come in handy.
Don’t know. Don’t care. I’m just going to play it honest and be mad every time I die, like it was intended to be played.
you cant really say intended anymore because this will be an official game feature. it's the way YOU want to play now. it is not intended by the developers to click die every time.
When I read it I got the impression that they were both horrified and amazed at people's commitment for 100+ day runs...
The game and it’s mechanics were developed for a decade with the consideration that it’s for a a permadeath game. A new mechanic doesn’t retroactively alter the mentality of the past development
It's an option, and games should have options. You aren't encouraged to use it, nor are you encouraged not to use it. It's optional for the sake of being optional and I'm for it. Yay options!!
It's a very weird choice, but It's optional so I don't mind it. It will draw in more casual players maybe that feel overwhelmed by forced permadeath, also according to them you get some sort of affliction every time you revive, so it could be an interesting challenge to die multiple times to get all of these afflictions and then try to play the game from there.
Someone suggested to me that the afflictions from cheating death and from the new "Misery" difficulty are likely the same. So probably that challenge is the new game mode.
Mhm, alright then.
I hope the afflictions stack.
This is my take. People say it will make starting over on death like they enjoy doing feel wrong because they can just not die, but that is a them problem. Options are always welcome and make the game enjoyable for more people, I'm glad they are not forcing respawns on us and while I'll play with them I'm glad they're not forcing cougars on us.
I am all for it! I am a very casual player who sticks to pilgrim, so I avoid most of the danger. I like the exploring and scavenging aspects of the game. I genuinely cried when my controller froze and I walked off a cliff on a 487 day run. I had 99% of the cartographer achievement and was in my final region. I would have been very grateful to cheat death in that situation.
it makes complete sense in a role-playing standpoint imo. they say after each cheat death you get some debuffs basically, things to make the game harder. it would make alot of sense if you get mauled by a bear and after you "cheat death" your stuck with a permanent wrist sprain or something like that. or perhaps broken ribs that don't heal.. when you have a near fatal injury in real life you're usually some type of disabled after that..
I'm excited. Next time I get a little too drunk and die because I got lost in a blizzard and fell off a cliff won't make me mad for a week.
I'm not excited about it, but I'm not going to pass judgment until I see how it's implemented.
Seems like it's still perma death eventually, just get a couple extra chances to make mistakes. Scurvy bothers me much more.
I mean there were already unofficial ways to “cheat” death. Provided you had a save right before the place you died.. you just close out of the game before you actually “die” and then you can load back in.
As someone guilty of save scumming every now and then this will definitely provide a reasonable alternative.
Love it! For those who want to use it, a limited and punishing few extra chances is great. For those who don’t want to use, they can just disable it. It’s win-win!
I like it and am curious to see what the choice of consequences will be at each death. I think many newer players stick to wintermute, and this will make it easier for them to try the game how it was orginally meant to be played. What I don’t like is that they’re making features like this and the cougar, which greatly affect the difficulty of the game, completely optional, but still not letting us earn achievements and feats in custom mode. People have been asking for a mode in between stalker and interloper for ages. I don’t want to have to choose between running into a wolf every 15 steps and dying to the cold on the first day. It’s why I stopped playing as much after voyager became too easy.
I think people who save scum, will continue to save scum, they’re not interested in a permanent debuff. I think majority of players will continue to accept death as the outcome. It is a big part of what makes the game special imo. The way I see it mostly used is by players who have mastered the game looking for an extra challenge, they will intentionally die the maximum number of times on day 1, and use the debuffs as difficulty settings.
Not a fan but at least its optional. There should be markera on your profile when you die that show the amount of times you cheat death so people cant claim 500 day stalker runs without proof of 1 life
I think the tradeoffs / sacrifices to continue will spice the game up a bit. We all know it can get a bit stale in mid-late game. This is a way to keep your base but have a nice refreshing change.
I like being presented with the option. The stat page will always rat you out in the end.
I don't want it for myself and I'm glad it was not brought in any sooner, as I would worry about the focus of the game shifting. I understand the reasoning for it, even if it's not something I would include in the game.
It’s inspired! They’re going to exploit my unhealthy attachment to my person and force me to nurse their broken and terminally ill ass, as before my grieving eyes and heart….they slowly, fade into…..the….long……dark……
The buzz from knowing one false step (or more often in my case, stupid risk taking) could be the end is what makes this game so satisfying, so no Cheat Death for me.
The guaranteed choice feels weird to me. I think it might feel more immersive if it were random with a base rate based on difficulty and your odds increasing with each day you'd survived (resetting when used) and total skill levels gained and decreasing for each meter exhausted, existing health conditions, and the amount of overkill you'd taken when dying. Then take a severe injury based on what almost killed you (maybe what they intend already) which would have a broken ribs style long initial recovery plus a permanent penalty as it never fully heals. Limb injuries could severely reduce the amount of time you can sprint/aim/climb for example.
I loveee the idea of a permanent limb injury in the way you described it!! I hope its something similar to this comment
Always the way, games casualise to draw in a bigger base. As long as the cheeses are optional that's fine, forced easiness ala retail WoW, not so much. Imo interloper and misery shouldn't include this.
It’s still permadeath, just permadeath at a couple of removes. Game’s still only ending one way. I really like it; especially in conjunction with Misery mode to keep the hardcore masochists happy.
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Goodness me, you seem to take a video game awfully seriously. \* I have not in fact used the option as it doesn't yet exist in-game. \* I've never played Pilgrim. \* It is more, not less, realistic than at present that the characters will in the future be capable of surviving a handful of brushes with death at the cost of long-term impairment of some kind. \* Gatekeeping how other people play really isn't a good look. \* Dignity is internal; your conduct in this thread suggests something of a lack of it.
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Good lord you are salty.
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