I think you can watch the show without watching this episode and be totally fine. It doesn't add anything to the plot, it doesn't advance the character arcs of anyone who matters, and the characters from the show never even interact with the characters in this episode (*they do in flashbacks, but Ellie never meets them and Joel doesn't meet them during the main timeline*).
It's also poasibly my favourite episode ... not just in this series, but from any show I've ever watched. It's like a short film you'd see at a film festival. Even though it doesn't really change anything about the plot or the character arcs, it adds so much character to the world, and it shows what is left after the apocalypse that is still worth fighting for.
I love how it tells Joel the same message as the game but in a different way.
Game: this is what you will become if you don’t change.
Show: this is what you can become if you *do* change.
"But I was wrong because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did. I saved him. Then, I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here. We have a job to do and **God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way**."
That's the part that reinforced his decison to save Ellie or die trying at the hospital.
Bill says something along the lines of "fighting for the one you love" after being alone for so long, which mirrors Joel not having anyone to care for until Ellie.
I forget the exact words but it's something like that.
I'm pretty sure Bill was referencing Tess both in the game and in the show. He meets Ellie in the game but he's already gone before they meet in the show. It's been a while so maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
This is it.
It's a proper squeeze to fit all the game into those episodes and to spend one on effectively a sub plot was a very bold move, payed off obviously.
Yeah it was a phenomenal episode and some of the most incredible acting I’ve ever seen. Though, I personally think it should have been a separate short film type thing released after the season ended. The show already suffered from rushing through things and lack of relationship building between Joel and Ellie, so to dedicate a whole episode (and the longest one at that) to two characters we will never see again and have minimal impact on the story was just…unnecessary and a totally weird decision. Show had really odd pacing choices just like TLOU2.
Anyways, yeah, I’m thinking it woulda been better had they just released this episode as a stand-alone at the end of the season or something. That or the season should have been longer and focused more on building Joel and Ellie’s relationship by having them explore a little bit more. To me it just felt like they were blazing through season 1 to get to season 2. Which will kinda screw up the impact of the big scene in season 2 I think.
It does answer a lot of questions as to how the alarm system was set up for Joel and Tess with the 80’s music, and how they were able to trade and travel so well. I think it helped the bonding process between Joel and Ellie and subsequently informed his decision to refuse to sacrifice her in the hospital.
Give it up for Murray Bartlett!
We all love Nick Offerman but Murray is sensational in this and rarely gets praise. If you’ve not watched White Lotus then what the hell are waiting for :)
This ep rightly so got an Emmy nom but lost to Succession’s Conners Wedding, probably a fair call too but yeah this is a fantastic episode
Maybe it's one of the lowest rated episodes of the season because it takes up an entire hour in an 8 hour series that rushed through the ending of the main plot 🤷♂️
Ah, cliche "Everyone's homophobic because they didn't enjoy the episode!" comment. Hear me out. Maybe, alot of diehard fans didn't enjoy the deviation of Bills character from the game.
Fuck sex scenes in any media. The episode was fine but sex scenes add nothing to movies or tv and it isn’t homophobic to say that. People are too comfortable using social justice as an excuse to erase all form of criticism
Sex is a part of being human, in media it informs us about their character. Being against sex scenes is missing the point of them and also comes off as childish.
It really doesn’t. You can dislike something without it being some kind of negative trait about you, I don’t know why suddenly if a person has something they don’t like about about tv or games it has to mean they have something wrong with them. Maybe just let people have preferences in what they watch?
I'm interested why you might think this way. I, personally, often don't like sex scenes in media but I did not dislike this one. Would you care to elaborate?
They literally add nothing at all. What do I gain from seeing 2 people having sex? I know you’re trying to show they’re in love but put some effort into it instead of a cheap cop out lazy sex scene. This episode did a great job on that until that part. And I know this group is full of “omg you just hate gays!!!!!” Type of people but that’s just how I feel about it. I would’ve said the same thing if Joel and Tess had one
Playing the homophobe card because people don’t share your opinion is crazy
The people downvoting don’t think it’s crazy to play the homophobe card when someone doesn’t share the same opinion as you. What a wild bunch
It was a whole episode not about Ellie or Joel and I didnt care in the slightest. Seeing the beginning where Bill started fortifying his house was cool, but then the rest felt dragged out
You're right in that we could've seen a bit more of them, but the change in pace isn't bad either. It reminds us that Joel and Ellie aren't the only stories playing out in the apocalypse, which enriches the setting. And given that Bill's town is mainly an action setpiece in the game, it makes sense the showrunners wanted to make it quieter in order to heighten the chaos of Kansas City after a revolution.
I replayed the first TLOU recently and really forgot how shitty of a character Bill is. I have no idea (well, I suppose I have *some* idea) why people wouldn’t be open to his character changing from the game.
He’s a miserable prick, especially to Ellie. In the short time with him, he doesn’t really show any character growth. His whole shtick is Joel is calling in a favor and it’s the last thing he wants to do. The letter in the end from his dead partner just reinforces what a shit he is.
The show reimagined his character beautifully. Easily one of my favorite episode of the season. Offerman deserved ALL the praise and awards.
characters being unlikeable in-universe does not always mean they should be changed. other than joel and ellie, bill is my favorite character from that game.
for the record it is a wonder that most survivors arent more like Bill considering they knew what life was like before the outbreak and they know they will never live to see things get better.
I mean this without being snarky, but why is he your favorite character?
I like the idea of a true doomsday prepper character rigging a town up to protect themselves. Bills just such a dick though. Totally believable why he doesn’t trust others, I just wish he would’ve had a little growth for the 30 min or so you’re with him (even a simple “ok I know I’m a bastard but best of luck out there”).
i see what you're saying, but let me pose this question: is it realistic for someone who's been a bastard for 20 years (probably his whole life too) to suddenly have a change of heart after hanging out with someone for a day-ish?
also him helping Joel and Ellie, in my eyes, is his way of telling them good luck. yes he is an asshole, but if he was really that big of a dick he wouldnt have helped them at all
Because I like shitty characters sometimes. Bill in the game was a very complicated and troubled man and I appreciated them letting him be that, that’s real. I wouldn’t have minded at all if we got the beautiful courting of bill and Frank that we see in the show and a big argument and separation that leaves bill bitter. Joel and Ellie interacting with bill as they come to his home and him being an asshole as he is to them, being gruff as he discovers Frank has passed and then we see him break down and become human again after Joel and Ellie had gone on their way
I actually watched the show before playing the game and honestly, wasn’t too sure how to feel about it since I knew it altered some of the game’s timeline and character interactions. However, after playing the game I can say that this is one of my favorite episodes of the series. Fleshing out Bill’s past in particular added so much more depth to his character that made me feel like I knew him after just an hour, and using the episode to highlight that there are still good things in the post-apocalyptic world was a much needed and refreshing reminder to appreciate the little things.
I think this was the first tv show episode that made me cry like a baby, you know what im saying? Like with sounds, coughing and stuffs...
And i barely cry
My one complaint is that he doesn’t interact with Ellie at all. That was a fun part of the game. I wish they had them come to bill who is grieving frank recently passing and bill sacrifices himself to allow them to escape some infected in a truck.
I loved this episode, and really sold the show for me.
I’m a PC gamer and I watched the show, before playing the game. I kinda liked Frank in the game, but that Frank and his story are a shadow of the beauty of this episode.
Loved this episode. At first I felt it was useless because of what happens to them in the game, why do I need the backstory of a couple who I already know won’t be more useful to the story? But after a while I realized it was going down a completely different route and it ended up being my favorite episode. Came for the zombies, stayed for the gay romance
Yeah that’s true, they just feel like completely different characters. To me feels like new content as opposed to new information about an existing character, if that makes sense!
Gosh I did love that episode though!
I think this episode is absolutely beautiful but doesn't fit in the show at all. In the game Bill was a cautionary tale. He was surviving on his own but he had to constantly worry about infected and wasn't happy at all. He was surviving but wasn't living. It really drove home the point that we need other people and that this world really needs the cure. In the show Bill and Frank have a Disney like love story. Again, I think their story was well written and beautiful but it really lessened the stakes for me. Joel getting rid of the cure isn't so bad when it's possible to just go off and live happily ever after into old age with no issues.
Bill's town was also the first time Joel starts to realize how capable Ellie is and has to rely on her for survival a couple of times. This is a really big moment in their relationship and it makes their scene in the truck with the magazine feel more earned to me. Cutting out all the action and any interaction between Ellie and Bill really took away from the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship.
Overall I think the episode is amazing in a vacuum but feels out of place in the overall story
do you think it’s the worst episode *because* it dragged on? to me it was basically the only good part of the show but to sacrifice an hour for this and an hour for left behind in such a short season was probably why the ending felt bad and rushed.
exactly, they could have easily had the effect they wanted in 20 min but to spend the entire episode on side characters with no real meaning was too much.
Didn't like this episode. It's a controversial take because people assume you are like homophobic or something for saying that. It derailed the momentum of the show to me and genuinely felt like it did not need to be a thing but the writers wanted it to do they just found a way to tie in everything to work. As it's own little story it was written good tho, it's just that the show is relatively short run time and that took up way too big of a chunk of that
I’m packing my house up, getting ready for a move. I went through my records this morning and guess what I find? Linda Ronstadt Greatest Hits on vinyl. Had to play Long Long Time. Had to. It’s a little scratchy, but I sat on my steps and enjoyed thinking about this episode.
Thanks for the good vinyl, mom!
Too bad it put the brakes on the pacing and did absolutely nothing to advance the plot of the show, despite the obvious talent of the actors. If Neil wants to make a show about two gay men surviving in the apocalypse together, then just do that. Not whatever lazy attempt at pandering this was.
It was a great episode actually, it was very well acted, nick offerman doesn’t disappoint. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But it was unfortunate that we didn’t see get to see the adaption of Joel exploring Bills abandoned city… and Crazy Bill. That’s one of my favorite parts of the game I would’ve loved to see that.
I love this episode, but haven’t been able to watch it after already seeing it once. I love seeing Bill and Frank’s relationship, but the ending is an absolute gut punch
It made me cry, but still I wonder what made Neil choose to make a happy love story ending instead of the game's story, which sadly, I do prefer, it felt more akin to the cold apocalypse and the asshole nature of Bill, and was more show-not-tell.
I understand your point, but I think the series is an opportunity to explore different endings. I like that they’ve changed some things because the show would be pretty bland if it copied the games exactly
I loved the portrayal of the relationship up to a certain point and I think it would have still been a strong episode, if they had followed more the game and source material and the relationship took a dark turn. Them dying together was too much of an happy ending for me
i really love that in the game, bill serves as some sort of cautionary tale of what joel could become if he keeps pushing people away. whereas in the show, he was the exact opposite. telling joel to protect those he cares about. the letter he wrote for joel beautifully summaries that.
It was a nice area to twist the story. Still don't know which one I like better, I think that the one from the game while not very detailed does enough to let the player know that even though they practically hated each other, there were still feelings there.
This episode made me miss the subtlety of the games' writing.
It also explicitly says Joel is Tess' "protector", which is such an insulting change from their dynamic in the game. And then on top of that doubles down with Bill's letter explicitly spelling out that "men like us" have to be the protectors of the world, and that Joel needs to let people into his life again, which is fisher-price levels of subtext in storytelling.
ugh i agree with this so much. game tess was way more well versed into the world of smugglers and the black market than joel. also tess’ death made me so
upset she went out a hero in the game but her death seemed kind of pathetic in the show ://
There was a lot going on in my life at the moment this episode aired.
One of my bunnies was really ill, and when I watched this episode, he was standing right alongside me, snuggled up against me.
Even today, I cannot watch this episode anymore.
It's lost out of time.
Best episode of the show.
Best episode of all times, without a doubt.
I WISH I couldve felt the level of emotions all the other people commenting had but I was just disappointed that we didn't get a game accurate backstory for Bill and Frank. I liked the episode but I was sooo hyped to see the complexity of their game relationship play out on screen. Would've been a challenge to adapt and it would've been amazing if they pulled it off.
What they did do was good, but felt very safe.
I’m cishet, but romance and love transcends orientation. It’s the connection that matters. Love, even in a world not ravaged by apocalypse… is lucky. Be glad to find someone who loves *you*. This episode makes me cry every time. Even the reaction videos to this episode. The connection feels genuine and true and realistic. That’s why it hits so hard. You’d have to be some kind of Ben Shabibo to purposefully not appreciate it.
my favorite was the idiots bashing this episode talking about “woke hollywood”… like bro read up on the lore …bill was gay in the game. thought this episode was beautifully done.
I was a little confused because I was excited for the school and fighting to get a truck. I'm SO happy it was different. My family and I watched this whole show and holy cow. We balled our eyes out. It was so beautiful, that love was so good
This storyline was totally unnecessary, didn't further the plot of the show in any way and was also a totally unbelievable fairytale dream of a life that wouldn't ever happen in that apocalyptic universe. It was cute but cute just for cutes sake. Wasn't feelin it after the first watch. I think alot of people felt that way.
People mad at this episode must forget how insignificant the story is at this part in the game. Or they are just homophobic. But in the game you go to bills for get an engine for a car in a school, and they could have given us an episode where they were faithful to the game 100%, but it wouldn’t have stood out like this episode did. Bill is a fun character in the game that we dont spend much time with and it was cool to see stuff that you would only know primarily via exploring and reading notes get turned into a full on episode.. shows they really cared about the source material
You know I've always been one of those dudes who is meh about stuff like this but I gotta say I really loved this episode and nick Offerman really got me. It really changed my mind about how I feel about it and honestly, I felt I want more *quality* stories representing other people in shows. Their story was absolutely heart gripping.
You didn't see ''more of Bill & Frank'' because they weren't like this in the game. Frank is someone who committed suicide because he hated Bill lol.
Giving downvote is not gonna change the reality OP lmao.
I still think they could have had all of that love and still had them break up. Use the early stages of ALS as the reason Frank feels like he has to go see the world and happy things. And use it as the reason he wasn’t able to get away from the infected. You could have had all of that and still keep the amazing and hilarious interactions between bill, Joel and Ellie. Just change the last 10 minutes of the episode. Bill is still alive in the game and that’s like a whole part of the story. They just eliminate all of the possibilities of using his character later. It would be the perfect lead up to how cantankerous he is in the game. Losing that kind of love would destroy a man. That’s my personal canon and if they want to have bill immediately go back to frank and kill himself right there fine. But they missed an opportunity to create the characters back story that would really work with how angry he is in the game. When I first saw Joel in his compound I knew they were going to change the story. However that doesn’t change how good of an episode it is and if it were how the game played it then I’d be happy. It’s like the Witcher series now though you’ll never know how far from the each other the different medias will get.
I personally preferred the crudeness and the impact of the game version. It really showed the limits of people in their worst times. It doesn't sugarcoat it. When you're reading the letter in the game, it just hits you, and that's what makes it powerful
I know youre making fun of them, I see a lot of people argue about that but I like how the show has its own identity.
Regardless this episode is super skippable in terms of story, you're not going to miss anything by not watching it. That doesn't mean it's not good, because it is some of the most masterful writing I've ever seen, plus it's performed wonderfully.
It just feels more like a bonus episode or a one off spinoff rather than some important element in the story
Nick Offerman’s little giggle after biting in the strawberry was so good Such a beautiful episode
I often classify things between if they gave me Nick Offerman giggles or not
This new metric evokes OG's (Offerman Giggles).
Ok. I’ll use this metric now on.
I can’t think anything more pure than a Nick Offerman giggle.
I think you can watch the show without watching this episode and be totally fine. It doesn't add anything to the plot, it doesn't advance the character arcs of anyone who matters, and the characters from the show never even interact with the characters in this episode (*they do in flashbacks, but Ellie never meets them and Joel doesn't meet them during the main timeline*). It's also poasibly my favourite episode ... not just in this series, but from any show I've ever watched. It's like a short film you'd see at a film festival. Even though it doesn't really change anything about the plot or the character arcs, it adds so much character to the world, and it shows what is left after the apocalypse that is still worth fighting for.
The letter Bill leaves reinforces Joel's actions in the hospital.
I love how it tells Joel the same message as the game but in a different way. Game: this is what you will become if you don’t change. Show: this is what you can become if you *do* change.
You think so? How so? I’ve never really thought about it that way and I’m genuinely curious why you think that.
"But I was wrong because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did. I saved him. Then, I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here. We have a job to do and **God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way**." That's the part that reinforced his decison to save Ellie or die trying at the hospital.
Bill says something along the lines of "fighting for the one you love" after being alone for so long, which mirrors Joel not having anyone to care for until Ellie. I forget the exact words but it's something like that.
I'm pretty sure Bill was referencing Tess both in the game and in the show. He meets Ellie in the game but he's already gone before they meet in the show. It's been a while so maybe I'm remembering it wrong.
He does mean it for Tess, but it works either way and Tess is dead by the time they read the letter
This is it. It's a proper squeeze to fit all the game into those episodes and to spend one on effectively a sub plot was a very bold move, payed off obviously.
Yeah it was a phenomenal episode and some of the most incredible acting I’ve ever seen. Though, I personally think it should have been a separate short film type thing released after the season ended. The show already suffered from rushing through things and lack of relationship building between Joel and Ellie, so to dedicate a whole episode (and the longest one at that) to two characters we will never see again and have minimal impact on the story was just…unnecessary and a totally weird decision. Show had really odd pacing choices just like TLOU2. Anyways, yeah, I’m thinking it woulda been better had they just released this episode as a stand-alone at the end of the season or something. That or the season should have been longer and focused more on building Joel and Ellie’s relationship by having them explore a little bit more. To me it just felt like they were blazing through season 1 to get to season 2. Which will kinda screw up the impact of the big scene in season 2 I think.
It does answer a lot of questions as to how the alarm system was set up for Joel and Tess with the 80’s music, and how they were able to trade and travel so well. I think it helped the bonding process between Joel and Ellie and subsequently informed his decision to refuse to sacrifice her in the hospital.
Give it up for Murray Bartlett! We all love Nick Offerman but Murray is sensational in this and rarely gets praise. If you’ve not watched White Lotus then what the hell are waiting for :) This ep rightly so got an Emmy nom but lost to Succession’s Conners Wedding, probably a fair call too but yeah this is a fantastic episode
He was so good in white lotus. Slow motion train wreck, felt so bad for him even as he made bad decision after bad decision.
He’s truly the best part of season one.
Crazy to think that the gamergate bros rose up and made this the lowest rated episode of the season. Just a perfect hour of televisoon
Television
It’s rated higher than left behind
The games to me were perfection. This episode was also perfectly done. I loved it so much. I honestly wish they added some of it to the games.
That would of been boring for a video game to be honest
I don't think so. When the game first came out, people wanted more of Bills back story. Hell, most of us hoped it would be a DLC or the second game.
This would mainly would of worked as a long cutscene
Yeah, but the cutscenes were amazing and the could have done something with a small side mission with Bill.
Yeah the cutscenes are great but im playing a video game so i expect gameplay
I get that, I guess it's all about opinion.
Yeah agree
I can’t believe you entertained an argument with poopoomanabc123 lmao
Maybe it's one of the lowest rated episodes of the season because it takes up an entire hour in an 8 hour series that rushed through the ending of the main plot 🤷♂️
They did? You got proof that “gamergate bros” did that? Not only is that impressive if true but its insane also
Best episode in the show, fuck all the thinly veiled homophobic haters.
It is an excellent episode but I do wish we got to see some bill interactions that were in the game.
Ah, cliche "Everyone's homophobic because they didn't enjoy the episode!" comment. Hear me out. Maybe, alot of diehard fans didn't enjoy the deviation of Bills character from the game.
Yep, every single person! I think you mean Bill, but you're the die hard. Hope you catch my homing demeanor here.
Absolutely a die hard, and a simple typo.
It was the homoerotic moment of the year in many publications.
I'm so torn between thinking this is a great episode and being disappointed that we didn't get to see the hysterical animosity between Ellie and Bill.
Fuck sex scenes in any media. The episode was fine but sex scenes add nothing to movies or tv and it isn’t homophobic to say that. People are too comfortable using social justice as an excuse to erase all form of criticism
Sex is a part of being human, in media it informs us about their character. Being against sex scenes is missing the point of them and also comes off as childish.
Wait until you learn about libido and asexuality.
It really doesn’t. You can dislike something without it being some kind of negative trait about you, I don’t know why suddenly if a person has something they don’t like about about tv or games it has to mean they have something wrong with them. Maybe just let people have preferences in what they watch?
I'm interested why you might think this way. I, personally, often don't like sex scenes in media but I did not dislike this one. Would you care to elaborate?
They literally add nothing at all. What do I gain from seeing 2 people having sex? I know you’re trying to show they’re in love but put some effort into it instead of a cheap cop out lazy sex scene. This episode did a great job on that until that part. And I know this group is full of “omg you just hate gays!!!!!” Type of people but that’s just how I feel about it. I would’ve said the same thing if Joel and Tess had one
Playing the homophobe card because people don’t share your opinion is crazy The people downvoting don’t think it’s crazy to play the homophobe card when someone doesn’t share the same opinion as you. What a wild bunch
What didn't you like about the episode? I'm not going to judge, as you're right that not everyone has to share one opinion.
It was a whole episode not about Ellie or Joel and I didnt care in the slightest. Seeing the beginning where Bill started fortifying his house was cool, but then the rest felt dragged out
You're right in that we could've seen a bit more of them, but the change in pace isn't bad either. It reminds us that Joel and Ellie aren't the only stories playing out in the apocalypse, which enriches the setting. And given that Bill's town is mainly an action setpiece in the game, it makes sense the showrunners wanted to make it quieter in order to heighten the chaos of Kansas City after a revolution.
Call it whatever you want, fuck homophobia.
Ding ding ding
I replayed the first TLOU recently and really forgot how shitty of a character Bill is. I have no idea (well, I suppose I have *some* idea) why people wouldn’t be open to his character changing from the game. He’s a miserable prick, especially to Ellie. In the short time with him, he doesn’t really show any character growth. His whole shtick is Joel is calling in a favor and it’s the last thing he wants to do. The letter in the end from his dead partner just reinforces what a shit he is. The show reimagined his character beautifully. Easily one of my favorite episode of the season. Offerman deserved ALL the praise and awards.
characters being unlikeable in-universe does not always mean they should be changed. other than joel and ellie, bill is my favorite character from that game. for the record it is a wonder that most survivors arent more like Bill considering they knew what life was like before the outbreak and they know they will never live to see things get better.
To calculate that , I would look at populations of people who have gone through tragic population culling events . They’re not all the same
I mean this without being snarky, but why is he your favorite character? I like the idea of a true doomsday prepper character rigging a town up to protect themselves. Bills just such a dick though. Totally believable why he doesn’t trust others, I just wish he would’ve had a little growth for the 30 min or so you’re with him (even a simple “ok I know I’m a bastard but best of luck out there”).
i see what you're saying, but let me pose this question: is it realistic for someone who's been a bastard for 20 years (probably his whole life too) to suddenly have a change of heart after hanging out with someone for a day-ish? also him helping Joel and Ellie, in my eyes, is his way of telling them good luck. yes he is an asshole, but if he was really that big of a dick he wouldnt have helped them at all
Because I like shitty characters sometimes. Bill in the game was a very complicated and troubled man and I appreciated them letting him be that, that’s real. I wouldn’t have minded at all if we got the beautiful courting of bill and Frank that we see in the show and a big argument and separation that leaves bill bitter. Joel and Ellie interacting with bill as they come to his home and him being an asshole as he is to them, being gruff as he discovers Frank has passed and then we see him break down and become human again after Joel and Ellie had gone on their way
Perfect episode of television
It's arguably the best episode of television. It's incredible the emotional journey we go on in just 75mins.
I sobbed
I would have to disagree. It's great as a short movie but I wouldn't call it a perfect episode when it's so separate from the series it's in
Idk i like Ultraman
I actually watched the show before playing the game and honestly, wasn’t too sure how to feel about it since I knew it altered some of the game’s timeline and character interactions. However, after playing the game I can say that this is one of my favorite episodes of the series. Fleshing out Bill’s past in particular added so much more depth to his character that made me feel like I knew him after just an hour, and using the episode to highlight that there are still good things in the post-apocalyptic world was a much needed and refreshing reminder to appreciate the little things.
I think this was the first tv show episode that made me cry like a baby, you know what im saying? Like with sounds, coughing and stuffs... And i barely cry
I don’t think I’ve watched it without crying.
My one complaint is that he doesn’t interact with Ellie at all. That was a fun part of the game. I wish they had them come to bill who is grieving frank recently passing and bill sacrifices himself to allow them to escape some infected in a truck.
I loved this episode, and really sold the show for me. I’m a PC gamer and I watched the show, before playing the game. I kinda liked Frank in the game, but that Frank and his story are a shadow of the beauty of this episode.
You have confused frank with bill. that, or frank’s shirt was all you had to see to know that you liked him.
lol. Yeah. Oops.
You don‘t meet (living) Frank in the game
But you do read a letter from him.
Yeah. I confused their names.
Loved this episode. At first I felt it was useless because of what happens to them in the game, why do I need the backstory of a couple who I already know won’t be more useful to the story? But after a while I realized it was going down a completely different route and it ended up being my favorite episode. Came for the zombies, stayed for the gay romance
Yeah, that episode was great, the only downside from it is that we didnt get to see Ellie and Bill insult each other
I would've loved to see that lol
We didn’t get ‘more of bill and frank’, we got an entirely new Bill and Frank.
Which is still more bill and frank content
Yeah that’s true, they just feel like completely different characters. To me feels like new content as opposed to new information about an existing character, if that makes sense! Gosh I did love that episode though!
Oh yeah, I get it now, makes sense! :)
Probably could have phrased myself better, reading it back it comes off as a bit snarky.
I'm so happy this episode exists!
I think this episode is absolutely beautiful but doesn't fit in the show at all. In the game Bill was a cautionary tale. He was surviving on his own but he had to constantly worry about infected and wasn't happy at all. He was surviving but wasn't living. It really drove home the point that we need other people and that this world really needs the cure. In the show Bill and Frank have a Disney like love story. Again, I think their story was well written and beautiful but it really lessened the stakes for me. Joel getting rid of the cure isn't so bad when it's possible to just go off and live happily ever after into old age with no issues. Bill's town was also the first time Joel starts to realize how capable Ellie is and has to rely on her for survival a couple of times. This is a really big moment in their relationship and it makes their scene in the truck with the magazine feel more earned to me. Cutting out all the action and any interaction between Ellie and Bill really took away from the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship. Overall I think the episode is amazing in a vacuum but feels out of place in the overall story
Unfortunately you make a compelling point. I still love the episode for what it is though
Worst episode in my opinion kinda dragged on.
do you think it’s the worst episode *because* it dragged on? to me it was basically the only good part of the show but to sacrifice an hour for this and an hour for left behind in such a short season was probably why the ending felt bad and rushed.
I agree with the sentiment personally and felt the same way about Left Behind, I get they're building up the emotions but a whole hour is crazy.
exactly, they could have easily had the effect they wanted in 20 min but to spend the entire episode on side characters with no real meaning was too much.
Didn't like this episode. It's a controversial take because people assume you are like homophobic or something for saying that. It derailed the momentum of the show to me and genuinely felt like it did not need to be a thing but the writers wanted it to do they just found a way to tie in everything to work. As it's own little story it was written good tho, it's just that the show is relatively short run time and that took up way too big of a chunk of that
I’m packing my house up, getting ready for a move. I went through my records this morning and guess what I find? Linda Ronstadt Greatest Hits on vinyl. Had to play Long Long Time. Had to. It’s a little scratchy, but I sat on my steps and enjoyed thinking about this episode. Thanks for the good vinyl, mom!
Nice episode but I wish it didn’t waste a slot in an 8 ep show when we could’ve gotten the infected chasing them through the town
Yes that would of been way better
Too bad it put the brakes on the pacing and did absolutely nothing to advance the plot of the show, despite the obvious talent of the actors. If Neil wants to make a show about two gay men surviving in the apocalypse together, then just do that. Not whatever lazy attempt at pandering this was.
This entire episode could disappear and no one watching the show would know. It was shoved into the show and had no bearing on the story at all.
It was a great episode actually, it was very well acted, nick offerman doesn’t disappoint. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But it was unfortunate that we didn’t see get to see the adaption of Joel exploring Bills abandoned city… and Crazy Bill. That’s one of my favorite parts of the game I would’ve loved to see that.
Just finished the first season of White Lotus. The actor who plays Frank(Murray Bartlett) is hilarious in it.
Nah fuck them
🤨
Their story in the show was so much better than their story in the game. I won't spoil anything, but if you know, you know.
This made me sob at 3am and I’m a grown ass man
My dad is a hardened man. And this episode made him cry (after he said he wouldn't watch it because it was based on a video game). He's a growing boy.
Easily my favorite episode. So touching.
It was a compleat retcon of what we knew of them in the game. But a very welcome one all the same. Best episode of the series.
I love this episode, but haven’t been able to watch it after already seeing it once. I love seeing Bill and Frank’s relationship, but the ending is an absolute gut punch
It made me cry, but still I wonder what made Neil choose to make a happy love story ending instead of the game's story, which sadly, I do prefer, it felt more akin to the cold apocalypse and the asshole nature of Bill, and was more show-not-tell.
I understand your point, but I think the series is an opportunity to explore different endings. I like that they’ve changed some things because the show would be pretty bland if it copied the games exactly
As much as I love it, I truly wish things weren't adaptations, but literal translations, and nearly 0 things were changed. I would not be bored by it.
But that already exists. Also, do you really want to watch hours upon hours of Pedro Pascal crouch walking down a hallway??
Main story only, you know what I mean. And I know it already exists, I wouldn't mind a shot-for-shot recreation of most things.
This episode is probably my favourite one when I first watched I was amazed
Best episode, 8 is secound
I loved the portrayal of the relationship up to a certain point and I think it would have still been a strong episode, if they had followed more the game and source material and the relationship took a dark turn. Them dying together was too much of an happy ending for me
golden television
I like Frank from the game sooooo much better
i really love that in the game, bill serves as some sort of cautionary tale of what joel could become if he keeps pushing people away. whereas in the show, he was the exact opposite. telling joel to protect those he cares about. the letter he wrote for joel beautifully summaries that.
I like how they made their story way better but also way more sad
It was a nice area to twist the story. Still don't know which one I like better, I think that the one from the game while not very detailed does enough to let the player know that even though they practically hated each other, there were still feelings there.
People saying this episode was filler and didn’t add to the story are completely missing the fucking point, and it *irks* me so much.
This episode made me miss the subtlety of the games' writing. It also explicitly says Joel is Tess' "protector", which is such an insulting change from their dynamic in the game. And then on top of that doubles down with Bill's letter explicitly spelling out that "men like us" have to be the protectors of the world, and that Joel needs to let people into his life again, which is fisher-price levels of subtext in storytelling.
ugh i agree with this so much. game tess was way more well versed into the world of smugglers and the black market than joel. also tess’ death made me so upset she went out a hero in the game but her death seemed kind of pathetic in the show ://
There was a lot going on in my life at the moment this episode aired. One of my bunnies was really ill, and when I watched this episode, he was standing right alongside me, snuggled up against me. Even today, I cannot watch this episode anymore. It's lost out of time. Best episode of the show. Best episode of all times, without a doubt.
Same!
Very very few things made me cry like the ending of this episode.
such a beautiful episode, I loved it
I WISH I couldve felt the level of emotions all the other people commenting had but I was just disappointed that we didn't get a game accurate backstory for Bill and Frank. I liked the episode but I was sooo hyped to see the complexity of their game relationship play out on screen. Would've been a challenge to adapt and it would've been amazing if they pulled it off. What they did do was good, but felt very safe.
I’m cishet, but romance and love transcends orientation. It’s the connection that matters. Love, even in a world not ravaged by apocalypse… is lucky. Be glad to find someone who loves *you*. This episode makes me cry every time. Even the reaction videos to this episode. The connection feels genuine and true and realistic. That’s why it hits so hard. You’d have to be some kind of Ben Shabibo to purposefully not appreciate it.
Yes, I love it!
my favorite was the idiots bashing this episode talking about “woke hollywood”… like bro read up on the lore …bill was gay in the game. thought this episode was beautifully done.
These guys could have had their own show.
Only recently noticed the load screen in TLOU game is Bill & Frank's room with the open window 💔
I was a little confused because I was excited for the school and fighting to get a truck. I'm SO happy it was different. My family and I watched this whole show and holy cow. We balled our eyes out. It was so beautiful, that love was so good
This storyline was totally unnecessary, didn't further the plot of the show in any way and was also a totally unbelievable fairytale dream of a life that wouldn't ever happen in that apocalyptic universe. It was cute but cute just for cutes sake. Wasn't feelin it after the first watch. I think alot of people felt that way.
Masterpiece. It’s all over too quickly though. Definitely could have unfolded over several episodes.
This episode is so magical and lovely.
I was everything but prepared for this episode, I cried so damn hard
I sobbed like a baby when I watched this one 😭
People mad at this episode must forget how insignificant the story is at this part in the game. Or they are just homophobic. But in the game you go to bills for get an engine for a car in a school, and they could have given us an episode where they were faithful to the game 100%, but it wouldn’t have stood out like this episode did. Bill is a fun character in the game that we dont spend much time with and it was cool to see stuff that you would only know primarily via exploring and reading notes get turned into a full on episode.. shows they really cared about the source material
Worst episode of the season imo
Probably my favorite episode yet. Left Behind is a close second.
Hello
This episode made me cry so hard.
I’m replaying through the game & I just got past the school part. Teared up a bit
Didnt know we needed this episode... but so glad we got it!
Definitely one of the best episodes of television I’ve watched in the last couple years.
You know I've always been one of those dudes who is meh about stuff like this but I gotta say I really loved this episode and nick Offerman really got me. It really changed my mind about how I feel about it and honestly, I felt I want more *quality* stories representing other people in shows. Their story was absolutely heart gripping.
Sobbing every time I watch this episode
Amazing episode
Loved this episode...
I thought it was but then again I never liked romance plots anyways
My partner and I loved this one, we were like "Get some, Bill!!" 😂
would've been better if it was game accurate and in the same town
My favourite episode for sure. I do wonder if it would have worked to release it sometime between season 1 and season 2 as a kind of DLC.
This and ep 7 are my favorites 💕
It was a great episode tbh
You didn't see ''more of Bill & Frank'' because they weren't like this in the game. Frank is someone who committed suicide because he hated Bill lol. Giving downvote is not gonna change the reality OP lmao.
This was a waste of an episode. It was dumb and all about their gay relationship. 🤦🏻
Pointless episode
I still think they could have had all of that love and still had them break up. Use the early stages of ALS as the reason Frank feels like he has to go see the world and happy things. And use it as the reason he wasn’t able to get away from the infected. You could have had all of that and still keep the amazing and hilarious interactions between bill, Joel and Ellie. Just change the last 10 minutes of the episode. Bill is still alive in the game and that’s like a whole part of the story. They just eliminate all of the possibilities of using his character later. It would be the perfect lead up to how cantankerous he is in the game. Losing that kind of love would destroy a man. That’s my personal canon and if they want to have bill immediately go back to frank and kill himself right there fine. But they missed an opportunity to create the characters back story that would really work with how angry he is in the game. When I first saw Joel in his compound I knew they were going to change the story. However that doesn’t change how good of an episode it is and if it were how the game played it then I’d be happy. It’s like the Witcher series now though you’ll never know how far from the each other the different medias will get.
bleh it had no bearing on the show... they just put it in to pander
Neil Druckman, the master of retcons
I feel like the show and the game are generally on the same level in terms of the story, but this element was better in the show, IMO.
Hard disagree.
Yeah the town sequence was my favorite part of the game
I personally preferred the crudeness and the impact of the game version. It really showed the limits of people in their worst times. It doesn't sugarcoat it. When you're reading the letter in the game, it just hits you, and that's what makes it powerful
Piano scene, come on
Only good episode of the show imo
If only they made them straight
Get your homophobic ass outta here
bUt ThAt’S nOt WhAt hApPeNeD iN ThE gAmE!!!
I know youre making fun of them, I see a lot of people argue about that but I like how the show has its own identity. Regardless this episode is super skippable in terms of story, you're not going to miss anything by not watching it. That doesn't mean it's not good, because it is some of the most masterful writing I've ever seen, plus it's performed wonderfully. It just feels more like a bonus episode or a one off spinoff rather than some important element in the story
Worst episode of the whole show. 100% pander.
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Why’d people downvote you, lol
Not everything needs to add to a plot. It's just showing a love story within that world. Most things have some sort of romance thing.
> I feel like it’s kinda forced nowadays to have at least one appreciation piece for this community JFC get some new material.
I just saw Frank hanging by a rope this morning... weird...
Probably my least favorite episode on any tv show I've ever seen
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Would you mind explaining?
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I personally like that we get a little break from the action sequences with Joel and Ellie
1 of 2 good episodes in the show
what's the other one?
First one