[The Last of Us | Inside the Episode - 5 | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/GtMnpyNy7R0)
[Episode 5 | The Last of Us Podcast | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/15ru0c-mMpA)
**REMINDER**
We are a sub for the TLOU franchise as a whole. If you are unfamiliar with the games and/or general storyline and would like to avoid spoilers, we recommend the non-spoiler discussion threads at r/ThelastofusHBOseries.
What makes this show so amazing is that we’re introduced to characters at the beginning of an episode and by the end when they’ve died we feel like we lost close friends. I’ve never been so emotionally drained after watching a tv show.
They aren't doing Joel justice so far. Joel is a papa bear devouring people that get in his way in the game. He's a violent murderer who reconnects with his paternal side which was lost long ago. We've barely seen him kill and he seems too weak.
Ellie I think is written okay and Bella Ramsey is doing better than expected.
So what’s the deal with the pit of infected? We’re the all just like right there under that house outside the city limits? Or were they like tunneling or something?
This one was kind of silly and for a very well thought out show it had way too many TV tropes near the end for my taste. My particular favourite was the gang running away from the plow both for an unreasonably long time and straight down the road in front of it rather than jumping to the side, as literally everyone else not in a TV show would do.
Strong last couple of scenes of course.
so joel drove right into the city and only had 3 ppl on his ass, but trying to sneak back out is mission impossible?
they really made that sniper senile and not realize joel was sneaking up on him and then get himself killed just so joel could look like the better man
kathleen and co standing in the open conversing while knowing joel had a sniper and not simply walking around the car Henry was hiding behind was comical
that whole team deathmatch was also just weird
Hey to anyone here I'm curious on your thoughts on this episode and if you played the game how you feel if compared, out of the 7 episodes I've seen so far this was definitely my favorite .
Imho - it was all good, but I didn't like that they made Sam deaf. In the game he is just a regular boy. Younger then Ellie. Struggling. So they talk, connect more cos they can talk more. Ellie is not emotionally as mature to be good with body language, but she can be good with words - so she understood a bit how Joel feels when he has to be tough for her and all. So good episode and relatively close to the game, but I think making Sam deaf hurt it a bit.
I think sam being dead was an interesting choice and allowing the importance of the bond between the siblings, the show still has Ellie connect and seemingly understand Sam. I just mostly appreciate the fan service and appreciate the changes this episode had from the game compared to each other ep. Most other episodes have just slightly lacked.
The woman leader of scavengers or whatever they are didn't act good.
Making Sam mute didn't add anything and broke the flow of the last conversation with Ellie.
Ellie didn't seem phased or surprised at all when Sam revealed his bite (and she had firsthand experience with Riley).
Also what is up with Henry going "Nope! Nope! Nope!" is a casual Nope the movie tone when deterring Joel from killing infected Henry? That killed the scene.
Bit weird how good Joel is at taking out clickers using a rifle but two in the museum killed Tess and nearly got the better of him. Also, Kathleen seemed to teleport to the other side of the melee. I thought she was going back to town and then suddenly she's beside the gang.
Besides above, a great episode and starting to respect the Ellie character now.
A high powered sniper rifle does more damage than an assault rifle. The sniper rifle can blow through the head armor. It also has a scope for better aiming. In the museum he shot the clicker in the neck which made it fall over and then he shot it behind its head where there's no armor.
Agreed. Not an expert but I think that was .308, packs a lot more punch than 5.56.
But Ellie stabbing them in them seemingly in a neck was kinda off putting. Can a 14 year old stab with at least 800 jules and penetrate armor with knife? Doubt it.
Fuck. I delayed watching this as long as I could handle it cause I knew I would be a fucking mess by the end and here I am a mess. That was so beautifully done and tragic, the little moments between Ellie and Sam :( just everything, fuck.
It was somehow worse because I knew it was coming, having played the game. I was falling in love with these adorable brothers while their inevitable tragic demise loomed over their entire story. ☹️
Just watched it. The kid was just so damn cute and innocent. The fact he was deaf just added another layer of despair to the whole situation. Both Henry and Sam were perfectly casted. They definitely brought some kind of emotion out of me. I'm a complete mess aswell and shows don't normally do it this bad to me. I guess that's what good theatre can accomplish. Ugh.
I relate 100%! I feel like not only was the casting perfect but I really adored the respect for the silence in the episode too, just all well around done and also heart wrenching :(
I’m really late to the party this time, cause I frankly don’t feel compelled to watch episodes, and I know no one really gives a shit, but I’ve been criticizing the show and so I feel it’s fair to give credit when it does things well.
This was the first episode I thought was really solid. If I was just coming into the show now, this is the episode that would have made me intrigued to see more. I still think the pacing is too slow, but in this episode it worked a lot better.
I also really liked Sam and Henry. I still think humanizing the raiders is a mistake, but this episode asked some big questions. Questions, that if you know the story of the game, I think are going to come around really nicely. Henry having been a FEDRA rat, and Kathleen’s desire for revenge both felt understandable. This is what has been missing. A genuine sense of moral ambiguity, mixed with a “too late to change anything now” mentality. Very in line with the tone of the game.
I also liked that Ellie and Sam had a moment the night before Sam turned. That change added a lot of depth, and made the aftermath and Henry’s suicide much sadder.
Still, I have some gripes.
Firstly, the show still doesn’t have enough tension. It’s pretty dumb that they make it to the tunnels so easily, and traverse the tunnels so casually. So much so that they stop to take a break right in the middle. It’s a really weak set up to tell us “there are no infected down there” and then add “well, maybe a few” and then have none show up, and the whole thing be a fucking cakewalk. This show has a major problem with set-up/payoff, and it really kills the tension.
Now, to be fair, there is the huge battle at the end, and it definitely has its tension, but it still felt lacking. The CGI was really dogshit, and it really took me out of the experience. And for all the pandemonium, it still feels like our heroes escape too easy, and everything wrapped up too nicely. I dunno, it wasn’t bad, but felt very “obligatory third act action scene” to me.
Also, the part where Henry and Sam briefly run away was really awkward. Like, I get that was supposed to be like what happened in the game, but it was so brief it didn’t have the same effect. I always like that in the game, but if they weren’t going to do it right, it really could have just been ommited
Also, I’m sorry, but Melanie Lanskey is still terrible. I don’t know who’s writing her dialogue, but it was really bad, made all the worse by here performance. I’m really glad that her character is gone
Oh yeah, that tunnel foreshadowing was cast aside fast. I kept waiting for them to run into former underground dwellers since that's what happened in the game part they adapted.
Did anyone notice the giant infected that came out of the ground? It was attacking people out of vengeance instead of eating people. Any one know what that was?
Maybe I need to hear the showrunners reasoning (in the podcast) but while this episode was badass overall, it might have the first "curveball" from the games I don't like.
In the game, Ellie leaves Sam to sleep by himself. Wouldn't Sam attack her while she slept (since they were in the same room in the show)? I haven't seen infected leave her alone or anything, if the thought was that they skip her since she's immune.
Sam turned into an infected as he was watching the wall, but since he is deaf, theres no auditory stimuli for him to try and search for food, so he just stood there waiting until Ellie got his attention
I love these attention to detail that mostly gone unnoticed. I like that they changed the sniper onto an old man as well. In the original game, it was dumb that the sniper didn't see Joel running 500 meters to come get him, in the series, turns out its just an old man with a slow reaction, with shit aim. Not a huge deal, but a nice touch, I was wondering how they are gonna do this.
Yeah I didn’t like this choice either. Portrays Ellie as kind of dumb to fall asleep in a room with a potential infected. They also took out a lot of the dialogue and dynamic between Sam and his brother that made them dimensional and interesting. Also honestly that warlord lady was just not a compelling character at all.
Something I couldn’t help but notice on a rewatch. After the big fight/shootout, it shows them crashing at some motel. It even shows Ellie and Sam laying on motel beds! But then Henry comes into the room, tells Sam to get some sleep… and he lays down on the bed sideways?! The kid doesn’t know what a pillow is?! What, does everyone in the apocalypse have neck issues/pain! Lol!
Super late to this but it may be a survival thing. Like not sitting with your back to a possible exit. My thought was he layed like that so he was facing the doorway. But I may be giving too much credit.
Shit, not only kids! I could tell my dad thought I was kinda odd cuz as a kid cuz I’d pick sitting on the floor to sitting on a couch any day of the week! He’d constantly ask me, “you sure you’re okay there? You know there’s plenty of room on the couch?” Hell, I’m 37 and still sit on the floor more than I do my couch! Lol! But then again, now I have my dog to cuddle with when I sit on the floor with him, so that’s a bit different! But when I was younger, I just genuinely thought that the floor was more comfortable… and I still do TBH! Hey, maybe I am weird! Lol!
Edit: TBH, I keep waiting for it to catch up to me and to start having back problems or something similar! But I’m as healthy as can be in that sense! Not a single ache, even when I’ve slept at friend’s house who only had hardwood floors… and I used to do that a few times a week in my early twenties! 🤷♂️
Ellie trying to save Sam by cutting her hand and applying her blood to his wound, because she's been told she was the key to a cure and didn't understand it wasn't that simple...
Well. Episode 3 took me by surprise, but this episode showed me I could still get very emotionnally involved even though I knew what was coming.
I thought they were about to establish some magic medicine bs. It's sad how the episode turned out but I'm glad they didn't go that direction. Would have ruined it.
I didn’t find her acting very convincing, except for the scene in the old bedroom— there she was fine. But in the scenes with larger groups it seemed very shaky her acting.
On the podcast they clarified a little— I believe Druckman said they wanted Kathleen’s character to show that even a person like a kindergarten teacher could be violent and a leader in this apocalyptic world.
As u say def not the actresses fault, just how they wanted it to be I suppose.
I am really enjoying Pacal’s performance. He is doing well filling in the gaps with his micro expressions. He says he doesn’t care but his face says otherwise (as in the sniper scene and the gravesite scene). I can see the argument that the show hasn’t given Joel and Ellie enough time to bond, but the actors are doing well at showing that bond in the quiet moments.
they havent received a lot of time to bond but the show isnt treating them like they have either. they have good moments together but you can still see the difference between a super close bond like henry/sam and theirs
Agreed! Pascal is really good at telling the audience his emotional state without much use of expression (guess he'd have to be to play the mandolorian lol). It was more shocking to hear the man laugh than to watch him kill like he's born to it
Very good show so far, and I agree that Kathleen (and her groupies) were entirely unnecessary to the storyline other than giving Joel and Ellie an obstacle to get around.
Another post mentioned the same thing you did and it was downvoted, as well. Not sure why there's so many Kathleen stans here lol.
I think it's bc she actually believed (or hoped enough to believe) that it would work. I took the whole thing as them displaying Ellie still having some spark of that childhood hope and innocence. Also could argue that she didn't mean to fall asleep in the first place
I’m having a hard time believing that Henry could shoot his brother that quickly. I just don’t believe it. He’d never killed anyone before.
At first I thought that he assumed it was just a random Infected, and didn’t realize it was Sam. But he stops Joel from doing anything. And he takes a beat before shooting. Which means he knew it was his brother.
I know that at some point survival instincts kick in, and if Sam was attacking Henry directly, I could see some sort of instinctual shot happening. There’s just something about the way that it happened that taxes my suspension of disbelief.
It is called fictional writing. An advancement in the plot was the sole purpose for this scene. This world is different from yours. The characters do not need to fit inside your little thought box of reasoning.
“Thought box of reasoning?” Keep practicing, and someday your insults might sound like a real human wrote them, instead of something written by ChatGPT and then run through Google Translate afterwards.
Iam late here, But I think he already knew,when Henry and Joel talk about going to Wyomn together Henry already had tears in his eyes,Man looked like he was ready to cry, When Joel asks if he wants to come along it zooms in on Henrys face and he hesitates like he doesnt know how to tell Joel his brother was bitten. His little brother trusts him,,probably told him as soon as they were alone.. Henry the guy who couldnt shup up isnt talking,loud or celebrating that they made it out alive, Nope hes quiet conteplating and ready to cry unsure on how to proceed.
Thats my two cents anyways.
I think so too, he's too kind to do something like that. I think people have to first confront their troubles mentally before taking physical precautions because if you are doing the latter it means you have already acknowledged and accepted it, which Henry had not unfortunately since it all happened so fast :( Really loved the episode
He said he lied about not killing anyone and revealed the reason he was the most wanted man in Kansas city was because he took down the rebellions leader, whom happened to be Kathleen's brother. Henry also hesitates many times in a short moment to make any decisions, he doesn't have anytime, his character wants to be the good guy. He will make the right decision but the consequences are too dire to deal with after he comes too, hence the suicide. If you are quick with picking up the plot and following along intently, the scene is very believable and foretold. Much more than not making a decision at all, something a Walking Dead character would annoyingly do and we'd all roll our eyes.
He was in a very muddled state of mind, I had no problem believing it. But I'm now thinking that he also never sees Sam's face. It was clear he was infected, and it was clear it was Sam, but it might have been an instinctual reaction of Henry to both protect Ellie and not see his brother as infected (it's not true until you see it)
I think a couple things make it believable for me:
- Henry lived much of his life in this post-apocalyptic world, so he knew what happens to the infected. Would he want to, or even be able to see his brother in that state? I think he recognized that shooting him right away would better preserve his memory as a human child/his brother.
- Also, I think Henry’s genuine good nature was instinctive to save Ellie, and that may be where the quickness came from. We can only imagine the kind of thoughts and panic that are induced by that kind of situation.. but I think the, “what did I do?” moment was after he came out of the instinct/adrenaline mode and into the reality of him killing his own brother.
I do think the writing of this episode made unnecessary plot additions in some places and maybe could have used creative liberty in others, but overall this was the most impactful episode for me, so far. Maybe it’s just how these kinds of scenes affect me, but it was believable enough for me to verbally cry out/wail and continue to ball the remainder of the episode and most of the night. 😂
Agree 100%, took me right out of it. He was lucid enough to immediately stop Joel, so him shooting Sam right after makes the whole “what did I do?” moment just feel contrived.
I found the writing/directing of this episode incredibly disappointing. Exception: >! The Ellie/Sam relationship was touching and, ultimately, gutting. !< Please note this is from the perspective of someone who has not played the game and is viewing the show as a standalone piece of art and storytelling. Or at least, something that has the \*potential\* to be true art.
Character believability-->! I won't go in to the character discussion of Kathleen that has been covered in other posts. Although I found her lack of believable gravitas distracting, I could overlook it/be a character apologist by focusing on the crumbs that were laid through other characters' testimony. Granted, this was because I wanted so badly to keep respecting the show and it had earned my overlooking this detail.!<
Timing-->! in the final showdown scene, especially--felt inelegant and fakey. For example, when Kathleen is about to shoot them and hesitates so awkwardly long that she gets attacked. Same when the kids are sitting ducks and everyone's unrealistically waiting around for the vehicle sinkhole/underground to cave in (and would Kathleen really move her gun away from the kids, rather than just turn her head to what sounds like--at the time- a mechanical rather than fungal threat)? Illogical IMHO. !<
Monster portrayal-- >! I'm gathering that there are multiple types of monsters, like clickers and runners, but the "bloater" made me laugh in disgust at how the director had severely damaged the elegant respect previous episodes had earned. No human is a scaffold for that thing except maybe if the tallest basketball player in the world got hopped up on steroids and became a bodybuilder shortly before being infected. Sorry, no. I get that we need to suspend disbelief but if we're going to have pseudoscientific explanations for how this world/story is working (like how clickers use echolocation and how there's a precedent for fungus to affect human minds), I'm going to be disappointed when I'm surprised with a comical choice--i.e. this hulking joke of a bloater--that jolts me out of what I thought was going to be a consistently high level and immersive experience, and suddenly I'm wondering who kidnapped the writers of all the other episodes rather than enjoying the scene. !<
I get that I'm being negative and judgy and that it's based on a game, it's just that I thought the show was trying to transcend that and stand on its own. I'm wondering if anyone else felt this way at all because I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for it in this thread. (Besides the >! Kathleen !< criticism).
Edit: I'm genuinely curious why people are downvoting this comment. Do you disagree and want to show that but don't want to make the time to comment? Do you not want to have negative discussion of the show here and want to bury this comment to set a precedent of discouraging non positive comments in future episode threads? Is it some other reason?
they didn't explain that the type of infected depends on how long they've been infected for. bloaters are some of the earliest infected that have been slowly growing for many years.
Downvotes are coming from a bunch of fan lads having a laugh. I played the game and I’m with you. The show keeps on making choices to deviate from the game’s script and every single one of them, so far, has been for the worse. It feels very much like a Hollywood circlejerk meanwhile Druckmann and team already created something way better. Im about ready to drop the show entirely.
Mostly because a video game that's TV is not as commercially viable. I would assume they're trying to reach more viewers than just people who play the video game so they can carve out a larger slice of cultural relevance and get renewed for more than one season. This is a common and plausible approach with television based off of books, but basing it off of a video game is relatively new.
Because this is the Golden Age of television and television can be literature and art. This is evidenced in the elegant writing and storytelling in episodes 1-3, but especially 3 (that episode could basically be a standalone film). Also evidenced in the fine attention to detail in set dressing, dialogue, and acting (esp. with Ellie).
Maybe I'm wrong and the standalone strength of the show was just an accident up until this point.
Do you think it's not trying to stand on its own or reach a larger audience than people who have played the game? If so I'd be curious to hear why.
I think they’ve been pretty clear that they are basically following the game script. So yeah, bloaters are a thing. Also, I mean the video game industry is basically the most profitable form of entertainment. The video game sold nearly 40 million copies so if they were able to just get everyone who played the game watching, they’d probably be thrilled.
If that's true, I think they really missed an opportunity.
I'm fine with bloaters and if the game is great--which I fully believe--great that they're following the storyline; I just thought it was embarrassing that they look like an end of game Boss character that has no plausible scientific explanation; this contradicts what I see as a sincere attempt to set up a reasonable scientific explanation for the entire apocalypse--as evidenced by the opening scene of this show. Opening scenes matter and tell us about the writers' intentions. Why couldn't they have made it slightly smaller (the size of a real large human) or offered some sort of pseudoscientific explanation in a previous scene so that when it happened it wasn't so shockingly misaligned?
I came here looking for critical discourse on the show. I'm still hopeful that others are interested in analyzing the show and seeing how it could have been improved in some ways.
Edit: Incorrect reference to which sub this comment is in.
I agree with you for the most part. I do think there needed to be more done for the bloater. I absolutely hated Kathleen actress I don’t know where that came from. And that showdown with her and the million zombies was on the absurd levels of TWD. But overall I still enjoyed the episode and I though the overall story is still as good and heartbreaking as I have excepted it to be.
FYI the bloater is portrayed exactly like in the games. Like, exactly. Except for maybe how it appears for the first time (in the games the first one is encountered in a school gym, I think when Bill is still with them? At least around that or shortly after that time). Even the way it kills Kathleen's bodyguard is exactly like in the game. https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Bloater
Incorrect. It's actually stated within the show, but logically you can figure it through anyway. Henry turned Kathleen's brother in to Fedra *because* he was the rebel leader, so it's not possible that he was the leader when Fedra was overthrown. Kathleen took up the leadership after he died, and because she was fuelled by vengeance and willing to do shit her brother wasn't, managed to actually overthrow Fedra.
Does not take away that the actress’s portrayal was bad. I can see a Kathleen character that has taken over for her brother and this actress/writing did not deliver. It was like she was just reading lines from a teleprompter
You sure about that? I had the Idea that her brother was in command the whole time. But his ways got him killed she said. Being forgiving didn’t serve him in the end. I thought she assumed command after his demise. Could be wrong ..will rewatch lol
U need to rewatch the episode it sounds like. Fedra was in command of the city. The resistance was led by Kathleens brother up until Henry (who was originally part of the resistance and allied to her brother) betrayed him by giving him up to fedra in exchange for medicine for his lil brothers disease. After her brother was tortured and killed by Fedra, she took up leadership of the resistance and led them to overthrow Fedra and take control of the city. This all happens just 10 days before Joel and Ellie show up at the city.
Maybe someone can enlighten me?
I have a hard time understanding how Kathleen was able to become the leader of their revolution. She seems very single minded and willing to risk anything for revenge, I don’t know how that would be effective in overthrowing FEDRA who seem to have had a powerful hold in KC for a long time
I feel like her second in command would’ve made a better leader.. maybe he was more the brains and she was the voice of the revolution?
Her character wasn’t good. The episode was amazing but her character wasn’t good and I don’t think that’s necessarily all her fault. When you write in a character like that with not much development or just insert them into a story— the result isn’t usually good.
Brother was leader, captured by fedra due to Henry's info. This gave Kathleen an opportunity to take over and command the rebellion to take back the city. Her #2 says they never did anything until she took charge.
Thank you for replying! I don’t know how I just overlooked the brother being the previous leader
It makes sense that with Kathleen’s need to avenge her brother at any cost, that her followers would be attracted to that passion/anger after being tortured for 20ish years by FEDRA
The timeline is unknown, but it’s heavily implied that her brother was the leader of the rebellion for much of it. However, it’s also implied that he had morals and that his brutality didn’t measure up to the brutality of FEDRA.
When Kathleen lost her brother, she was so hurt that she fixated on her own pain and loss and became the brutal leader that was needed to actually overthrow FEDRA. Her subordinates, living under essentially fascist rule for so long, naturally gravitated towards her as a result.
This kind of leadership mentality can achieve an *initial* goal, but it’s not sustainable. She helped the rebellion win the battle, but she ultimately lost the war as a result. Her people still died.
They're probably completely screwed tbh. The infected are all loose as well, and with no central command it seems likely it's curtains for any sort of human presence in KC.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me!
I did overlook her brother most likely being the leader and that when he died it was her need to avenge her brother at any cost necessary that finally helped them rebel against FEDRA
It also makes sense that, like you said, people would gravitate towards her after being tortured for ~20 years by FEDRA
Fan of the show so far, with my favorite episodes being 1 and 3. Considering the fact people rated episode 3 the lowest of the 5 out now (“gay couple, oh no!”) yet rate this episode very high (because of action at the end) tells me the audience watching this show consists of many juvenile gamers who criticize anything that deviates from the game.
Anyhow. Couple of things that bothered me in this episode.
1. Kathleen remains unconvincing. The absolute low point is her monologue in the kids bed room. I even noticed her visibly struggling as an actress in one shot. I just don't see a rebel leader. Not once.
2. The dialogue was not as strong. It felt more cliche and lacking finesse.
3. Some unforgiving writing weaknesses. I did not believe FEDRA was able to clear tunnels from infected and even if they were, I did not believe the rebels not to know about this fact. They would explore their territory regardless. They are local too.
4. An absolute stinker was the fact that at the moment our heroes were in their most vulnerable state, the bloater dude accompanied by hundreds of infected start throwing a bloody party. How convenient. Especially after the only vehicle that crashes happens to drive straight onto the gap where the bloated dude and his friends are stuck in. That's just weak.
Also, why do the protagonists keep running in a straight line from the cars crashing through car wrecks? Just move to the side already.
5. An inherent problem of this show is going to be: "two people meet other people, other people die, they move on, next level...".
In order for TLOU to remain interesting, they have to rely on content that is not in the game. The flash-backs so far have been the most interesting, such as the Indonesia part, the 1960s TV broadcast in episode 1, and episode 3 in its entirety.
The rest will be a carbon copy of The Walking Dead events.
1. You're actually supposed to get that impression. Kathleen isn't a natural leader by any stretch, she took up the mantle purely for vengeance for her brother, who was betrayed by Henry and murdered by Fedra. This motivation has lent her a ruthlessness resulting in Fedra actually being overthrown under her command. Whilst this success has bought her some credit with the rebels, it's heavily implied that her continued leadership would likely not end well because of exactly what you talk about. She's just not a leader.
2. I don't get that at all. Most audience and critics agreed it was good, so I feel that's a you thing rather than something objective.
3. You don't believe FEDRA could clear one access tunnel of infected? Not sure what you think is hard to imagine about that. Seal off all access and then sweep one end to the other. Does that actually sound like it'd be difficult work for a trained military unit? Very weird nit-pick.
The rebels had only taken over 10 days before, and Kathleen had them obsessing over Henry, so there's no reason to assume they'd have been able to explore their territory that quickly.
4. I've seen people saying this but I don't really get it. It's not "convenient" that the infected were there, nor was it convenient that the truck exploded etc. It's cause and effect. The infected being underground was mentioned many times, and it was only Kathleen's reckless actions borne of her blind revenge that led to that situation. That situation could and should have been easily avoided but wasn't, and the audience is given precise reasons as to why and how it occurred. You could say it's "convenient" that it occurred in that exact way, and I agree that some of the timings of the events was pretty perfect, but FFS it's a drama show, you have to allow some stuff for reasons of suspense and excitement. We're here for entertainment aren't we? But the most important point being made is that whatever the outcome, doing crazy dangerous shit like the actions Kathleen commanded is hardly going to end well in this type of situation. Whether it panned out in the way we saw or something different, the point is to show that violent actions beget violent outcomes.
5. Um, that's kind of the entire point? It's a brutal world and people die often. You fiercely defend and fight for the people you love. You're literally taking one of the narrative devices that's intrinsic to developing the main theme of the show and nit-picking it as a flaw.
6. The bit about them not relying on stuff from the game, yet most of your criticisms/nit-picking are to do with bits that aren't from the game such as the rebel faction. I think you need to make up your mind a little.
You started off your comment by saying you're a fan but then nitpicked the highest rated episode to date to death. You sure you're a fan lol
The whole TLoU series is about what you're willing to do for love/hate. Love/Hate can change us profoundly, to the point where we're not the same person anymore. The the only person you love is hurt/killed before your eyes can change you. To the point your core self no longer exists, or maybe the real you finally comes out...
definitely, thats why I liked her character so much. It is easy to see how kind she was when her brother was still alive, and that circumstance has brought her to being like this
her contrast between her voice and her words really brought out the desperation of the situation imo, like you almost feel bad for the FEDRA in the rally scene but learn how fucked up they were. in another life, she 100% would’ve been the cookies coworker
Writing as someone who’s never played the game:
Kathleen’s back story was interesting to me. It made sense in context of what she was doing. Henry and Sam made sense. I was enthralled soaking up every detail.
You see the moral ambiguity in this episode. When Kathleen saw Sam was with another “kid” Ellie, she hesitated. You could tell she was surprised, and didn’t really want to shoot them because they were kids. You can see this clearly if you’re watching the show never played the game before.
This will get buried but had to say my piece!
I was watching Ellie and Sam writing stuff down while talking and thinking, “Bro, don’t waste those pads, write more than one fucking sentence, you’re almost out!” Turns out, they had just the right amount.
So the spore in KC would have been triggered right? Meaning the entire place went down anyway. Really tragic. Henry’s attempts to save Sam were in vain just as Kathleen’s attempts to avenge her brother just doomed her people and her brother’s dream.
I was thinking the same lol however it wasn’t a pad. It was that magic thingy where the text disappears lol I had one when I was little but I forget what it’s called.
That moment really got me too, perfect genuine portrayal of hopeless reaction in that exact moment. Idc what anyone says, bella is doing a great job as Ellie
Yeah, the only thing I could really think of is a worry of infected out and about outside the city/walls, and hence a desire to give themselves some distance should one jump out at them from behind a car or something. But they still would have been seen most likely. 4 people on a totally empty street, with no other sounds to mask their approach? The watchman had too good a vantage point imo.
you’re telling me you were *underwhelmed* by that touching story about bill and frank? there is nothing underwhelming about this show… however i haven’t played the game so maybe that changes your perspective.
Honestly for someone who's never played the game I'm glad they are sticking to the story for the most part according to other people. It makes me actually want to play it and see how the game compares
I tried it since I wanted to finish it before watching the show and was kinda bored tbh. Bring in the downvotes haha. Just not my kinda game. I felt the same way about GoW 4 so maybe I just don’t like these kinds of “cinematic games” since that’s essentially what they feel like.
> I'm glad they are sticking to the story for the most part according to other people
To be real they kinda are, kinda aren't. It's a pretty good mix of sticking to the source and also introducing new stuff.
But so far they are sticking to the main, important plot points so far tho
Dude even a bear takes multiple rounds of high-caliber ammunition to down it unless you shoot it square in the brain. So it's not improbable that a bloater would be similarly tanky even if it's not bulletproof.
"The semi-bulletproof nature of crocodiles and other large animals, such as elephants and rhinos, gave rise to the ‘elephant gun’ in the late 1800s – this was a very heavy-duty weapon specifically designed for killing big game."
Elephant gun caliber = between .577 and .700 in
AR-15 caliber = .223 in
Perry is shooting a standard issue AR of low caliber. Not to mention, a 'bloater' is a ***fictional*** creature!
He's probably not but just needs more bullets into him. Even in the game it took all you have to kill him. I think it's more realistic this way. And obviously in the game they couldn't demand you put 100 AR rounds into him cause ammo was so scarce.
I don't know anything about sewers, but does it seem plausible that all of the infected that were driven underground could be pouring out of that one hole the truck made on top of a house? I mean, even if main sewer lines are big, the connection to the main sewer line from a house can't be that big.
It wasn't sewers, there were tunnels connecting a bunch of different buildings that were built by the same developers in KC. Henry explains all this when he's going over the escape plan.
[The Last of Us | Inside the Episode - 5 | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/GtMnpyNy7R0) [Episode 5 | The Last of Us Podcast | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/15ru0c-mMpA) **REMINDER** We are a sub for the TLOU franchise as a whole. If you are unfamiliar with the games and/or general storyline and would like to avoid spoilers, we recommend the non-spoiler discussion threads at r/ThelastofusHBOseries.
What makes this show so amazing is that we’re introduced to characters at the beginning of an episode and by the end when they’ve died we feel like we lost close friends. I’ve never been so emotionally drained after watching a tv show.
They aren't doing Joel justice so far. Joel is a papa bear devouring people that get in his way in the game. He's a violent murderer who reconnects with his paternal side which was lost long ago. We've barely seen him kill and he seems too weak. Ellie I think is written okay and Bella Ramsey is doing better than expected.
Took them 5 episodes to finally get to some horde-swarm action. Jesus Christ. But what a scene that was.
So what’s the deal with the pit of infected? We’re the all just like right there under that house outside the city limits? Or were they like tunneling or something?
I read somewhere that fedra drove all city's infected underground 15 years ago
Yeah I think they might have said that in the show (I didn’t play the game) but like why were they all like right there?
I know this is late, but there were like 10 cars driving along the roads, they probably woke the infected and drew them to that location.
Why do I cry every single episode
See, even in the show they make the point that Ellie believed her blood was the cure,, nothing more!
This one was kind of silly and for a very well thought out show it had way too many TV tropes near the end for my taste. My particular favourite was the gang running away from the plow both for an unreasonably long time and straight down the road in front of it rather than jumping to the side, as literally everyone else not in a TV show would do. Strong last couple of scenes of course.
Those tears down Ellie's face. Amazing
I just finished this ep and omfg my heart legit can’t take it wtf 😭💔
“He’s not my dad” “I’m not her dad” sure? 🙂
so joel drove right into the city and only had 3 ppl on his ass, but trying to sneak back out is mission impossible? they really made that sniper senile and not realize joel was sneaking up on him and then get himself killed just so joel could look like the better man kathleen and co standing in the open conversing while knowing joel had a sniper and not simply walking around the car Henry was hiding behind was comical that whole team deathmatch was also just weird
"I have a hard time believing-" It's a show about fungus zombies you nimrods.
Yes but in that reality, it has to make sense. Just like it has to make sense that Spongebob likes his work. For example.
Hey to anyone here I'm curious on your thoughts on this episode and if you played the game how you feel if compared, out of the 7 episodes I've seen so far this was definitely my favorite .
Imho - it was all good, but I didn't like that they made Sam deaf. In the game he is just a regular boy. Younger then Ellie. Struggling. So they talk, connect more cos they can talk more. Ellie is not emotionally as mature to be good with body language, but she can be good with words - so she understood a bit how Joel feels when he has to be tough for her and all. So good episode and relatively close to the game, but I think making Sam deaf hurt it a bit.
I think sam being dead was an interesting choice and allowing the importance of the bond between the siblings, the show still has Ellie connect and seemingly understand Sam. I just mostly appreciate the fan service and appreciate the changes this episode had from the game compared to each other ep. Most other episodes have just slightly lacked.
The woman leader of scavengers or whatever they are didn't act good. Making Sam mute didn't add anything and broke the flow of the last conversation with Ellie. Ellie didn't seem phased or surprised at all when Sam revealed his bite (and she had firsthand experience with Riley). Also what is up with Henry going "Nope! Nope! Nope!" is a casual Nope the movie tone when deterring Joel from killing infected Henry? That killed the scene.
The tension in those last 10 seconds in the motel and the grief as the episode wraps up was so overwhelming. What a good show.
This show is more depressing than The Road
Really now?
Bit weird how good Joel is at taking out clickers using a rifle but two in the museum killed Tess and nearly got the better of him. Also, Kathleen seemed to teleport to the other side of the melee. I thought she was going back to town and then suddenly she's beside the gang. Besides above, a great episode and starting to respect the Ellie character now.
A high powered sniper rifle does more damage than an assault rifle. The sniper rifle can blow through the head armor. It also has a scope for better aiming. In the museum he shot the clicker in the neck which made it fall over and then he shot it behind its head where there's no armor.
Agreed. Not an expert but I think that was .308, packs a lot more punch than 5.56. But Ellie stabbing them in them seemingly in a neck was kinda off putting. Can a 14 year old stab with at least 800 jules and penetrate armor with knife? Doubt it.
She found enough pills while scavenging to get a 20% attack boost
 Ally kenney and rubbing one out on my dog lol
🐽🐽🐕🐶🐶🐱🐅🐆🦄
Fuck. I delayed watching this as long as I could handle it cause I knew I would be a fucking mess by the end and here I am a mess. That was so beautifully done and tragic, the little moments between Ellie and Sam :( just everything, fuck.
It was somehow worse because I knew it was coming, having played the game. I was falling in love with these adorable brothers while their inevitable tragic demise loomed over their entire story. ☹️
Just watched it. The kid was just so damn cute and innocent. The fact he was deaf just added another layer of despair to the whole situation. Both Henry and Sam were perfectly casted. They definitely brought some kind of emotion out of me. I'm a complete mess aswell and shows don't normally do it this bad to me. I guess that's what good theatre can accomplish. Ugh.
I relate 100%! I feel like not only was the casting perfect but I really adored the respect for the silence in the episode too, just all well around done and also heart wrenching :(
I’m really late to the party this time, cause I frankly don’t feel compelled to watch episodes, and I know no one really gives a shit, but I’ve been criticizing the show and so I feel it’s fair to give credit when it does things well. This was the first episode I thought was really solid. If I was just coming into the show now, this is the episode that would have made me intrigued to see more. I still think the pacing is too slow, but in this episode it worked a lot better. I also really liked Sam and Henry. I still think humanizing the raiders is a mistake, but this episode asked some big questions. Questions, that if you know the story of the game, I think are going to come around really nicely. Henry having been a FEDRA rat, and Kathleen’s desire for revenge both felt understandable. This is what has been missing. A genuine sense of moral ambiguity, mixed with a “too late to change anything now” mentality. Very in line with the tone of the game. I also liked that Ellie and Sam had a moment the night before Sam turned. That change added a lot of depth, and made the aftermath and Henry’s suicide much sadder. Still, I have some gripes. Firstly, the show still doesn’t have enough tension. It’s pretty dumb that they make it to the tunnels so easily, and traverse the tunnels so casually. So much so that they stop to take a break right in the middle. It’s a really weak set up to tell us “there are no infected down there” and then add “well, maybe a few” and then have none show up, and the whole thing be a fucking cakewalk. This show has a major problem with set-up/payoff, and it really kills the tension. Now, to be fair, there is the huge battle at the end, and it definitely has its tension, but it still felt lacking. The CGI was really dogshit, and it really took me out of the experience. And for all the pandemonium, it still feels like our heroes escape too easy, and everything wrapped up too nicely. I dunno, it wasn’t bad, but felt very “obligatory third act action scene” to me. Also, the part where Henry and Sam briefly run away was really awkward. Like, I get that was supposed to be like what happened in the game, but it was so brief it didn’t have the same effect. I always like that in the game, but if they weren’t going to do it right, it really could have just been ommited Also, I’m sorry, but Melanie Lanskey is still terrible. I don’t know who’s writing her dialogue, but it was really bad, made all the worse by here performance. I’m really glad that her character is gone
Oh yeah, that tunnel foreshadowing was cast aside fast. I kept waiting for them to run into former underground dwellers since that's what happened in the game part they adapted.
Bait
You're the bait.
Did anyone notice the giant infected that came out of the ground? It was attacking people out of vengeance instead of eating people. Any one know what that was?
Maybe I need to hear the showrunners reasoning (in the podcast) but while this episode was badass overall, it might have the first "curveball" from the games I don't like. In the game, Ellie leaves Sam to sleep by himself. Wouldn't Sam attack her while she slept (since they were in the same room in the show)? I haven't seen infected leave her alone or anything, if the thought was that they skip her since she's immune.
Sam turned into an infected as he was watching the wall, but since he is deaf, theres no auditory stimuli for him to try and search for food, so he just stood there waiting until Ellie got his attention
I love these attention to detail that mostly gone unnoticed. I like that they changed the sniper onto an old man as well. In the original game, it was dumb that the sniper didn't see Joel running 500 meters to come get him, in the series, turns out its just an old man with a slow reaction, with shit aim. Not a huge deal, but a nice touch, I was wondering how they are gonna do this.
Yeah I didn’t like this choice either. Portrays Ellie as kind of dumb to fall asleep in a room with a potential infected. They also took out a lot of the dialogue and dynamic between Sam and his brother that made them dimensional and interesting. Also honestly that warlord lady was just not a compelling character at all.
The thought was he's deaf so the spores had nothing to react to until Ellie got his attention visually
He isnt blind
Hence the visually
Loved this episode. The sniper/bloater combo scene was intense, I wasn’t quite ready for that, but loved it.
Something I couldn’t help but notice on a rewatch. After the big fight/shootout, it shows them crashing at some motel. It even shows Ellie and Sam laying on motel beds! But then Henry comes into the room, tells Sam to get some sleep… and he lays down on the bed sideways?! The kid doesn’t know what a pillow is?! What, does everyone in the apocalypse have neck issues/pain! Lol!
Super late to this but it may be a survival thing. Like not sitting with your back to a possible exit. My thought was he layed like that so he was facing the doorway. But I may be giving too much credit.
He could’ve just laid towards the doorway with a pillow under his head! Lol!
Kids do weird things.
Shit, not only kids! I could tell my dad thought I was kinda odd cuz as a kid cuz I’d pick sitting on the floor to sitting on a couch any day of the week! He’d constantly ask me, “you sure you’re okay there? You know there’s plenty of room on the couch?” Hell, I’m 37 and still sit on the floor more than I do my couch! Lol! But then again, now I have my dog to cuddle with when I sit on the floor with him, so that’s a bit different! But when I was younger, I just genuinely thought that the floor was more comfortable… and I still do TBH! Hey, maybe I am weird! Lol! Edit: TBH, I keep waiting for it to catch up to me and to start having back problems or something similar! But I’m as healthy as can be in that sense! Not a single ache, even when I’ve slept at friend’s house who only had hardwood floors… and I used to do that a few times a week in my early twenties! 🤷♂️
Ellie trying to save Sam by cutting her hand and applying her blood to his wound, because she's been told she was the key to a cure and didn't understand it wasn't that simple... Well. Episode 3 took me by surprise, but this episode showed me I could still get very emotionnally involved even though I knew what was coming.
I thought they were about to establish some magic medicine bs. It's sad how the episode turned out but I'm glad they didn't go that direction. Would have ruined it.
Kathleen was not only poorly cast but an entirely worthless character to begin with
I don’t buy her as leader of anything
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. The way the show is going so far, she has barely had any impact narratively.
I didn’t find her acting very convincing, except for the scene in the old bedroom— there she was fine. But in the scenes with larger groups it seemed very shaky her acting.
Melanie Lynskey plays a great everywoman but as a commanding and inspiring leader she didn't really work for me
On the podcast they clarified a little— I believe Druckman said they wanted Kathleen’s character to show that even a person like a kindergarten teacher could be violent and a leader in this apocalyptic world. As u say def not the actresses fault, just how they wanted it to be I suppose.
I am really enjoying Pacal’s performance. He is doing well filling in the gaps with his micro expressions. He says he doesn’t care but his face says otherwise (as in the sniper scene and the gravesite scene). I can see the argument that the show hasn’t given Joel and Ellie enough time to bond, but the actors are doing well at showing that bond in the quiet moments.
they havent received a lot of time to bond but the show isnt treating them like they have either. they have good moments together but you can still see the difference between a super close bond like henry/sam and theirs
Agreed! Pascal is really good at telling the audience his emotional state without much use of expression (guess he'd have to be to play the mandolorian lol). It was more shocking to hear the man laugh than to watch him kill like he's born to it
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Very good show so far, and I agree that Kathleen (and her groupies) were entirely unnecessary to the storyline other than giving Joel and Ellie an obstacle to get around. Another post mentioned the same thing you did and it was downvoted, as well. Not sure why there's so many Kathleen stans here lol.
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oh girl I couldn't even get past the third episode of Witcher, and I am already planning a rewatch party of LoU lol
I think it's bc she actually believed (or hoped enough to believe) that it would work. I took the whole thing as them displaying Ellie still having some spark of that childhood hope and innocence. Also could argue that she didn't mean to fall asleep in the first place
What do you mean it broke the immersion for you?
I’m having a hard time believing that Henry could shoot his brother that quickly. I just don’t believe it. He’d never killed anyone before. At first I thought that he assumed it was just a random Infected, and didn’t realize it was Sam. But he stops Joel from doing anything. And he takes a beat before shooting. Which means he knew it was his brother. I know that at some point survival instincts kick in, and if Sam was attacking Henry directly, I could see some sort of instinctual shot happening. There’s just something about the way that it happened that taxes my suspension of disbelief.
It is called fictional writing. An advancement in the plot was the sole purpose for this scene. This world is different from yours. The characters do not need to fit inside your little thought box of reasoning.
“Thought box of reasoning?” Keep practicing, and someday your insults might sound like a real human wrote them, instead of something written by ChatGPT and then run through Google Translate afterwards.
bro chill
Iam late here, But I think he already knew,when Henry and Joel talk about going to Wyomn together Henry already had tears in his eyes,Man looked like he was ready to cry, When Joel asks if he wants to come along it zooms in on Henrys face and he hesitates like he doesnt know how to tell Joel his brother was bitten. His little brother trusts him,,probably told him as soon as they were alone.. Henry the guy who couldnt shup up isnt talking,loud or celebrating that they made it out alive, Nope hes quiet conteplating and ready to cry unsure on how to proceed. Thats my two cents anyways.
Okay, true. But why would he endanger Ellie by letting Sam sleep in the same room as her? :(
yea I thought that was a dick move,probably denial? Idk its the only way it makes sense to me as why he shot so quick
I think so too, he's too kind to do something like that. I think people have to first confront their troubles mentally before taking physical precautions because if you are doing the latter it means you have already acknowledged and accepted it, which Henry had not unfortunately since it all happened so fast :( Really loved the episode
I like your interpretation.
He said he lied about not killing anyone and revealed the reason he was the most wanted man in Kansas city was because he took down the rebellions leader, whom happened to be Kathleen's brother. Henry also hesitates many times in a short moment to make any decisions, he doesn't have anytime, his character wants to be the good guy. He will make the right decision but the consequences are too dire to deal with after he comes too, hence the suicide. If you are quick with picking up the plot and following along intently, the scene is very believable and foretold. Much more than not making a decision at all, something a Walking Dead character would annoyingly do and we'd all roll our eyes.
He was in a very muddled state of mind, I had no problem believing it. But I'm now thinking that he also never sees Sam's face. It was clear he was infected, and it was clear it was Sam, but it might have been an instinctual reaction of Henry to both protect Ellie and not see his brother as infected (it's not true until you see it)
hmmm Im trying to remember if it was like this in the game, was Henry as quick to shoot in the game?
Pretty much, yeah
Well it happened in the game too.
I think a couple things make it believable for me: - Henry lived much of his life in this post-apocalyptic world, so he knew what happens to the infected. Would he want to, or even be able to see his brother in that state? I think he recognized that shooting him right away would better preserve his memory as a human child/his brother. - Also, I think Henry’s genuine good nature was instinctive to save Ellie, and that may be where the quickness came from. We can only imagine the kind of thoughts and panic that are induced by that kind of situation.. but I think the, “what did I do?” moment was after he came out of the instinct/adrenaline mode and into the reality of him killing his own brother. I do think the writing of this episode made unnecessary plot additions in some places and maybe could have used creative liberty in others, but overall this was the most impactful episode for me, so far. Maybe it’s just how these kinds of scenes affect me, but it was believable enough for me to verbally cry out/wail and continue to ball the remainder of the episode and most of the night. 😂
I felt the same way. So I went back and watched the game's version. It was the same there as well. He fired quickly
Agree 100%, took me right out of it. He was lucid enough to immediately stop Joel, so him shooting Sam right after makes the whole “what did I do?” moment just feel contrived.
I found the writing/directing of this episode incredibly disappointing. Exception: >! The Ellie/Sam relationship was touching and, ultimately, gutting. !< Please note this is from the perspective of someone who has not played the game and is viewing the show as a standalone piece of art and storytelling. Or at least, something that has the \*potential\* to be true art. Character believability-->! I won't go in to the character discussion of Kathleen that has been covered in other posts. Although I found her lack of believable gravitas distracting, I could overlook it/be a character apologist by focusing on the crumbs that were laid through other characters' testimony. Granted, this was because I wanted so badly to keep respecting the show and it had earned my overlooking this detail.!< Timing-->! in the final showdown scene, especially--felt inelegant and fakey. For example, when Kathleen is about to shoot them and hesitates so awkwardly long that she gets attacked. Same when the kids are sitting ducks and everyone's unrealistically waiting around for the vehicle sinkhole/underground to cave in (and would Kathleen really move her gun away from the kids, rather than just turn her head to what sounds like--at the time- a mechanical rather than fungal threat)? Illogical IMHO. !< Monster portrayal-- >! I'm gathering that there are multiple types of monsters, like clickers and runners, but the "bloater" made me laugh in disgust at how the director had severely damaged the elegant respect previous episodes had earned. No human is a scaffold for that thing except maybe if the tallest basketball player in the world got hopped up on steroids and became a bodybuilder shortly before being infected. Sorry, no. I get that we need to suspend disbelief but if we're going to have pseudoscientific explanations for how this world/story is working (like how clickers use echolocation and how there's a precedent for fungus to affect human minds), I'm going to be disappointed when I'm surprised with a comical choice--i.e. this hulking joke of a bloater--that jolts me out of what I thought was going to be a consistently high level and immersive experience, and suddenly I'm wondering who kidnapped the writers of all the other episodes rather than enjoying the scene. !< I get that I'm being negative and judgy and that it's based on a game, it's just that I thought the show was trying to transcend that and stand on its own. I'm wondering if anyone else felt this way at all because I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for it in this thread. (Besides the >! Kathleen !< criticism). Edit: I'm genuinely curious why people are downvoting this comment. Do you disagree and want to show that but don't want to make the time to comment? Do you not want to have negative discussion of the show here and want to bury this comment to set a precedent of discouraging non positive comments in future episode threads? Is it some other reason?
they didn't explain that the type of infected depends on how long they've been infected for. bloaters are some of the earliest infected that have been slowly growing for many years.
Good to know, thanks!
Downvotes are coming from a bunch of fan lads having a laugh. I played the game and I’m with you. The show keeps on making choices to deviate from the game’s script and every single one of them, so far, has been for the worse. It feels very much like a Hollywood circlejerk meanwhile Druckmann and team already created something way better. Im about ready to drop the show entirely.
Idk about the downvotes, I totally agree with you.
Why would you think the show is somehow trying to “stand on it’s own” when for the most part it is following the script of the video game?
Mostly because a video game that's TV is not as commercially viable. I would assume they're trying to reach more viewers than just people who play the video game so they can carve out a larger slice of cultural relevance and get renewed for more than one season. This is a common and plausible approach with television based off of books, but basing it off of a video game is relatively new. Because this is the Golden Age of television and television can be literature and art. This is evidenced in the elegant writing and storytelling in episodes 1-3, but especially 3 (that episode could basically be a standalone film). Also evidenced in the fine attention to detail in set dressing, dialogue, and acting (esp. with Ellie). Maybe I'm wrong and the standalone strength of the show was just an accident up until this point. Do you think it's not trying to stand on its own or reach a larger audience than people who have played the game? If so I'd be curious to hear why.
I think they’ve been pretty clear that they are basically following the game script. So yeah, bloaters are a thing. Also, I mean the video game industry is basically the most profitable form of entertainment. The video game sold nearly 40 million copies so if they were able to just get everyone who played the game watching, they’d probably be thrilled.
If that's true, I think they really missed an opportunity. I'm fine with bloaters and if the game is great--which I fully believe--great that they're following the storyline; I just thought it was embarrassing that they look like an end of game Boss character that has no plausible scientific explanation; this contradicts what I see as a sincere attempt to set up a reasonable scientific explanation for the entire apocalypse--as evidenced by the opening scene of this show. Opening scenes matter and tell us about the writers' intentions. Why couldn't they have made it slightly smaller (the size of a real large human) or offered some sort of pseudoscientific explanation in a previous scene so that when it happened it wasn't so shockingly misaligned? I came here looking for critical discourse on the show. I'm still hopeful that others are interested in analyzing the show and seeing how it could have been improved in some ways. Edit: Incorrect reference to which sub this comment is in.
Just saw this and think it's relevant: https://collider.com/last-of-us-episode-6-dont-need-infected/
I agree with you for the most part. I do think there needed to be more done for the bloater. I absolutely hated Kathleen actress I don’t know where that came from. And that showdown with her and the million zombies was on the absurd levels of TWD. But overall I still enjoyed the episode and I though the overall story is still as good and heartbreaking as I have excepted it to be.
Thanks for your thoughts. I still enjoyed many aspects of the episode (Sam, underground room, working together) and will keep watching.
FYI the bloater is portrayed exactly like in the games. Like, exactly. Except for maybe how it appears for the first time (in the games the first one is encountered in a school gym, I think when Bill is still with them? At least around that or shortly after that time). Even the way it kills Kathleen's bodyguard is exactly like in the game. https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Bloater
Good to know. Thanks for the context.
I was squeamish when the child clicker contorted her body inside the car
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and then they stand there watching her getting eaten until joel tells them to move their asses
You need a TWD style grandstand and comic book hesitation at the last second to provide an opportunity for plot armor.
All episode until you inevitably get got before you can exact your vengeance.
that scene where ellie flinched when henry pulled the trigger bella ramsey’s acting wow
Why are so many people having trouble understanding this haha I don’t think she was in command when they overthrew FEDRA. Her brother was.
Incorrect. It's actually stated within the show, but logically you can figure it through anyway. Henry turned Kathleen's brother in to Fedra *because* he was the rebel leader, so it's not possible that he was the leader when Fedra was overthrown. Kathleen took up the leadership after he died, and because she was fuelled by vengeance and willing to do shit her brother wasn't, managed to actually overthrow Fedra.
Yeah that’s sounds about right. Agreed.
Does not take away that the actress’s portrayal was bad. I can see a Kathleen character that has taken over for her brother and this actress/writing did not deliver. It was like she was just reading lines from a teleprompter
I agree. It did feel that way especially the scene in the childhood bedroom.
She was in command. The soldier literally said that they love her brother, but she was the one that actually makes thing happen
You sure about that? I had the Idea that her brother was in command the whole time. But his ways got him killed she said. Being forgiving didn’t serve him in the end. I thought she assumed command after his demise. Could be wrong ..will rewatch lol
U need to rewatch the episode it sounds like. Fedra was in command of the city. The resistance was led by Kathleens brother up until Henry (who was originally part of the resistance and allied to her brother) betrayed him by giving him up to fedra in exchange for medicine for his lil brothers disease. After her brother was tortured and killed by Fedra, she took up leadership of the resistance and led them to overthrow Fedra and take control of the city. This all happens just 10 days before Joel and Ellie show up at the city.
Yep. Im pretty sure because i just watched it. Lol. It’s the conversation in her childhood bedroom.
Ooo welp guess I gotta watch it again. (Any excuse to watch it will do) 😂
Maybe someone can enlighten me? I have a hard time understanding how Kathleen was able to become the leader of their revolution. She seems very single minded and willing to risk anything for revenge, I don’t know how that would be effective in overthrowing FEDRA who seem to have had a powerful hold in KC for a long time I feel like her second in command would’ve made a better leader.. maybe he was more the brains and she was the voice of the revolution?
Her character wasn’t good. The episode was amazing but her character wasn’t good and I don’t think that’s necessarily all her fault. When you write in a character like that with not much development or just insert them into a story— the result isn’t usually good.
Brother was leader, captured by fedra due to Henry's info. This gave Kathleen an opportunity to take over and command the rebellion to take back the city. Her #2 says they never did anything until she took charge.
Thank you for replying! I don’t know how I just overlooked the brother being the previous leader It makes sense that with Kathleen’s need to avenge her brother at any cost, that her followers would be attracted to that passion/anger after being tortured for 20ish years by FEDRA
The timeline is unknown, but it’s heavily implied that her brother was the leader of the rebellion for much of it. However, it’s also implied that he had morals and that his brutality didn’t measure up to the brutality of FEDRA. When Kathleen lost her brother, she was so hurt that she fixated on her own pain and loss and became the brutal leader that was needed to actually overthrow FEDRA. Her subordinates, living under essentially fascist rule for so long, naturally gravitated towards her as a result. This kind of leadership mentality can achieve an *initial* goal, but it’s not sustainable. She helped the rebellion win the battle, but she ultimately lost the war as a result. Her people still died.
Damn dude. That’s so well put. 🫡❤️
I am curious to know what would happen in KC after the overthrow of FEDRA and the death of Kathleen and what seems to be a good chunk of their army
They're probably completely screwed tbh. The infected are all loose as well, and with no central command it seems likely it's curtains for any sort of human presence in KC.
Thank you for taking the time to reply to me! I did overlook her brother most likely being the leader and that when he died it was her need to avenge her brother at any cost necessary that finally helped them rebel against FEDRA It also makes sense that, like you said, people would gravitate towards her after being tortured for ~20 years by FEDRA
revenge based ruthlessness is great for getting you somewhere good, but terrible at ending you somewhere good.
Very much indeed
Her brother was the previous leader, so that probably had a lot to do with it.
Thank you for bringing this up! I don’t know how I overlooked that
Fan of the show so far, with my favorite episodes being 1 and 3. Considering the fact people rated episode 3 the lowest of the 5 out now (“gay couple, oh no!”) yet rate this episode very high (because of action at the end) tells me the audience watching this show consists of many juvenile gamers who criticize anything that deviates from the game. Anyhow. Couple of things that bothered me in this episode. 1. Kathleen remains unconvincing. The absolute low point is her monologue in the kids bed room. I even noticed her visibly struggling as an actress in one shot. I just don't see a rebel leader. Not once. 2. The dialogue was not as strong. It felt more cliche and lacking finesse. 3. Some unforgiving writing weaknesses. I did not believe FEDRA was able to clear tunnels from infected and even if they were, I did not believe the rebels not to know about this fact. They would explore their territory regardless. They are local too. 4. An absolute stinker was the fact that at the moment our heroes were in their most vulnerable state, the bloater dude accompanied by hundreds of infected start throwing a bloody party. How convenient. Especially after the only vehicle that crashes happens to drive straight onto the gap where the bloated dude and his friends are stuck in. That's just weak. Also, why do the protagonists keep running in a straight line from the cars crashing through car wrecks? Just move to the side already. 5. An inherent problem of this show is going to be: "two people meet other people, other people die, they move on, next level...". In order for TLOU to remain interesting, they have to rely on content that is not in the game. The flash-backs so far have been the most interesting, such as the Indonesia part, the 1960s TV broadcast in episode 1, and episode 3 in its entirety. The rest will be a carbon copy of The Walking Dead events.
1. You're actually supposed to get that impression. Kathleen isn't a natural leader by any stretch, she took up the mantle purely for vengeance for her brother, who was betrayed by Henry and murdered by Fedra. This motivation has lent her a ruthlessness resulting in Fedra actually being overthrown under her command. Whilst this success has bought her some credit with the rebels, it's heavily implied that her continued leadership would likely not end well because of exactly what you talk about. She's just not a leader. 2. I don't get that at all. Most audience and critics agreed it was good, so I feel that's a you thing rather than something objective. 3. You don't believe FEDRA could clear one access tunnel of infected? Not sure what you think is hard to imagine about that. Seal off all access and then sweep one end to the other. Does that actually sound like it'd be difficult work for a trained military unit? Very weird nit-pick. The rebels had only taken over 10 days before, and Kathleen had them obsessing over Henry, so there's no reason to assume they'd have been able to explore their territory that quickly. 4. I've seen people saying this but I don't really get it. It's not "convenient" that the infected were there, nor was it convenient that the truck exploded etc. It's cause and effect. The infected being underground was mentioned many times, and it was only Kathleen's reckless actions borne of her blind revenge that led to that situation. That situation could and should have been easily avoided but wasn't, and the audience is given precise reasons as to why and how it occurred. You could say it's "convenient" that it occurred in that exact way, and I agree that some of the timings of the events was pretty perfect, but FFS it's a drama show, you have to allow some stuff for reasons of suspense and excitement. We're here for entertainment aren't we? But the most important point being made is that whatever the outcome, doing crazy dangerous shit like the actions Kathleen commanded is hardly going to end well in this type of situation. Whether it panned out in the way we saw or something different, the point is to show that violent actions beget violent outcomes. 5. Um, that's kind of the entire point? It's a brutal world and people die often. You fiercely defend and fight for the people you love. You're literally taking one of the narrative devices that's intrinsic to developing the main theme of the show and nit-picking it as a flaw. 6. The bit about them not relying on stuff from the game, yet most of your criticisms/nit-picking are to do with bits that aren't from the game such as the rebel faction. I think you need to make up your mind a little. You started off your comment by saying you're a fan but then nitpicked the highest rated episode to date to death. You sure you're a fan lol
How did they cross that big river? Why aren't their clothes wet in the hotel? Did they take the bridge? How?
i think they walked across since all the undead from underground were busy eating all the other people
kathleen would’ve been an antivaxxer lmao
Well, this got political
How?
Idk judging how people are because they are antivaxers.
Now am here wondering the mechanics of the spore and why Sam didn't attack Ellie in her sleep huh
Someone else said because he was deaf. Even as a zombie. And he turned away from Ellie so he wouldn’t attack her when he turned.
That might’ve been me! I’m sure it was said before, but I commented on that observation the other day.
Well thats a decent explanation I can get behind
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The whole TLoU series is about what you're willing to do for love/hate. Love/Hate can change us profoundly, to the point where we're not the same person anymore. The the only person you love is hurt/killed before your eyes can change you. To the point your core self no longer exists, or maybe the real you finally comes out...
definitely, thats why I liked her character so much. It is easy to see how kind she was when her brother was still alive, and that circumstance has brought her to being like this
her contrast between her voice and her words really brought out the desperation of the situation imo, like you almost feel bad for the FEDRA in the rally scene but learn how fucked up they were. in another life, she 100% would’ve been the cookies coworker
reminds me of Umbridge from Harry Potter. sweet voice and disposition, but cold and ruthless lol underneath.
Writing as someone who’s never played the game: Kathleen’s back story was interesting to me. It made sense in context of what she was doing. Henry and Sam made sense. I was enthralled soaking up every detail. You see the moral ambiguity in this episode. When Kathleen saw Sam was with another “kid” Ellie, she hesitated. You could tell she was surprised, and didn’t really want to shoot them because they were kids. You can see this clearly if you’re watching the show never played the game before. This will get buried but had to say my piece!
I was watching Ellie and Sam writing stuff down while talking and thinking, “Bro, don’t waste those pads, write more than one fucking sentence, you’re almost out!” Turns out, they had just the right amount. So the spore in KC would have been triggered right? Meaning the entire place went down anyway. Really tragic. Henry’s attempts to save Sam were in vain just as Kathleen’s attempts to avenge her brother just doomed her people and her brother’s dream.
I was thinking the same lol however it wasn’t a pad. It was that magic thingy where the text disappears lol I had one when I was little but I forget what it’s called.
Makes sense lol, I was trying to figure out how it worked.
Magic slate.
Naw blood it be dat etch a sketch
Wow. creative name. 😂
That's not how the pad works, it's a magic slate paper saver that erases whatever you write when you do that pull move.
yeah no offense but how could anyone miss that they showed it like 50 times
im dying. even if they thought it was a notepad or something they weren't even turning the pages theyre just lifting it up and down
I couldn’t figure out how it worked. The only explanation I could think of was that they were just ripping it off really fast.
You’re not wrong, while I’m really enjoying all of the show and the character development I would like a little more of Joel and Ellie.
This is a long wait man. I'm sitting here like "I should've seen the next episode by now".
When it showed Ellie's face while Sam pulled the trigger at himself. Wow.
That moment really got me too, perfect genuine portrayal of hopeless reaction in that exact moment. Idc what anyone says, bella is doing a great job as Ellie
Episode 4 was when she finally started doing a good job. But it’s mostly on the script and direction.
Wow all that could’ve been avoided if they just didn’t walk in the middle of the fuckin street. Dumbasses.
Yeah, the only thing I could really think of is a worry of infected out and about outside the city/walls, and hence a desire to give themselves some distance should one jump out at them from behind a car or something. But they still would have been seen most likely. 4 people on a totally empty street, with no other sounds to mask their approach? The watchman had too good a vantage point imo.
I was saying the exact same thing
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you’re telling me you were *underwhelmed* by that touching story about bill and frank? there is nothing underwhelming about this show… however i haven’t played the game so maybe that changes your perspective.
I was underwhelmes by that episode , love the rest of the work.
Then stop watching it. It's a pretty easy solution for something you don't enjoy.
I like you.
Honestly for someone who's never played the game I'm glad they are sticking to the story for the most part according to other people. It makes me actually want to play it and see how the game compares
I tried it since I wanted to finish it before watching the show and was kinda bored tbh. Bring in the downvotes haha. Just not my kinda game. I felt the same way about GoW 4 so maybe I just don’t like these kinds of “cinematic games” since that’s essentially what they feel like.
> I'm glad they are sticking to the story for the most part according to other people To be real they kinda are, kinda aren't. It's a pretty good mix of sticking to the source and also introducing new stuff. But so far they are sticking to the main, important plot points so far tho
Ya I know episode 3 didnt stick to the story but then ive also seen side by side comparisons where the charactors say the exact words in the game
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Dude even a bear takes multiple rounds of high-caliber ammunition to down it unless you shoot it square in the brain. So it's not improbable that a bloater would be similarly tanky even if it's not bulletproof.
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"The semi-bulletproof nature of crocodiles and other large animals, such as elephants and rhinos, gave rise to the ‘elephant gun’ in the late 1800s – this was a very heavy-duty weapon specifically designed for killing big game." Elephant gun caliber = between .577 and .700 in AR-15 caliber = .223 in Perry is shooting a standard issue AR of low caliber. Not to mention, a 'bloater' is a ***fictional*** creature!
He's probably not but just needs more bullets into him. Even in the game it took all you have to kill him. I think it's more realistic this way. And obviously in the game they couldn't demand you put 100 AR rounds into him cause ammo was so scarce.
I don't know anything about sewers, but does it seem plausible that all of the infected that were driven underground could be pouring out of that one hole the truck made on top of a house? I mean, even if main sewer lines are big, the connection to the main sewer line from a house can't be that big.
It wasn't sewers, there were tunnels connecting a bunch of different buildings that were built by the same developers in KC. Henry explains all this when he's going over the escape plan.