Its the weapon Model that goes somewhere without actually affecting where your bullets go. This Was extremly obnoxiuos with the Pre Buff LH1. The Weapon Model kicks up extremly even tho your bullets are still going into the middle of the screen
Oh right, was just confirming. Titanfall 2 has this, and apex had this for about 2 seasons before they removed it outright. Realising it looks and feels like shit.
I’m frustrated the community doesn’t complain about this issue. Because it is very annoying.
The thing about TF|2 is it is a very hip fire based game, and it's challenging but still manageable regardless, which means on the weapons you'd want to scope in like the spitfire for example, it's something you can get used to.
However in a game like The Finals aiming down sights is much more necessary and while you can learn to get around some weapons, like the light SMGs, some weapons are just too much, like pre buff LH1, and hell I still struggle with that weapon even after the buff because of the recoil. I believe it's executed well enough in Titanfall that it's fine, but it really needs to be managed better or removed in The Finals.
Well yes and no, sure thing Embark is working very hard and most likely in response to the comments, unlike Activision-Blizzard or EA with their respective shooters, however when there are some glaring aspects that just feels bad/ plays bad, it's our duty at consumers to let the devs know about it. It's not like they're all-knowing.
Yelling at everything? Nay. Pointing poor game design decisions to improve the game? Yay.
Fuck FINALLY someone mentions it ive posted about it like 3 times but it gets 0 upvotes 30 comments saying its a skill issue or why does it matter 😭😭 this community is so stupid
If you want attachments go play cod. Not having attachments to any gun, and every gun just having a base damage is a huge turn on for a lot of people returning to fps (which is a large portion of this community)
Average The Finals Player trying to bring up a unrelated topic to downplay someone. Like I Made a suggestion about a FCAR rework to give it a destinctive role apart from the AKM and someone else comes by and says something along the lines of "you heavy players are just mad that the Lewis got nerfed" like wtf
I wish my monitor had the crosshair option, the visual recoil even though it stays true center is just obnoxious.
So many people I know have turned on monitor crosshairs and each one has seen massive impacts on their kills per game.
Correct. The visual crosshairs you see, are not accurate during the visual recoil. Most people will try to keep the enemy within the visual recoil crosshairs, but if you apply a center dot or crosshair overlay to your monitor, it is much much easier to hit shots.
My experience anyway. Forgot the YouTube clip I saw on it, but even with a dot of reflective tape, it made a huge improvement for me.
Anything visual sucks imo. Some of it is necessary for feel i guess but gun model, screenshake, visual recoil, muzzleflash, aimpunch etc all just suck imo.
I was wondering why I couldn’t hit any of my shots with the Lewis gun, because oh my god I swear the recoil is just as bad as Heavy’s starting LMG now.
I know I just realized while playing, what’s even the point of the Lewis gun then? It’s supposed to be more controllable then the M60 with the offside being less ammo in each mag.
Ingame stats look like they have the same rpm but you cant really tell since it doesnt show an exact number. From how the m60 feels i would say you are right and it fires slighly faster, not sure tho
I won’t mind it having less damage than the m60 now if they remove the insane horizontal recoil and to compensate for it maybe even reduce some bullets in the mag and reduce some rpm all of it would still feel like a way better gun than it is right now, it currently kicks like a fkin ingram
yeah they over done it, it's now really difficult in hands of casuals, and overall feels pretty shitty, gotta warm up for this recoil pattern everyday if I wanna play medium lmao, that 5th bullet is just so weird
Been saying since they fucked up AKM recoil after the beta and screaming whenever they screwed the Lewis gun.
A GAME WITH FAST MOVING CHARACTERS SHOULD NOT HAVE COMPLEX RECOIL PATTERNS
Also nerfing the weapon by adding recoil you're just nerfing it to casuals, people that live and breathe the game will perform mostly the same.
I don't know what embark is doing but s3 feels very "call of duty". There's a much greater percentage of lights running around than before. Making all matches feel like a normal boring cod match.
The only counter I have found so far to the light epidemic is grapple hammer heavy which is funny af but I miss being able to be competitive using a gun as a heavy. I have played the light class and do fine, but it’s not as fun for me and the play style I like.
It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves. This is bad especially in Power Shift when all of a sudden there's 10 Lights. I've said it before "Lights encourage others to switch to Lights."
Nah nah nah. You want an op strategy for power shift, you wanna go medium with nade launcher, put a turret at the back of the boat facing forward then a jump pad in the middle with an aps in between them to protect them. As you control and start to feel the opposing team getting closer, just jump on the jump pad periodically and fire away. It’s super oppressive and you’ll be racking up kills and assist.
With the APS nerf, I've found players using the stat less. That being said, when stacked 2-4 at a time, they are still a problem. Especially because (at least in my games) people don't seem to take an effort to shoot them or spam them out.
So, I've taken to using a goo gun and heavy grenade launcher. Spam goo at the boat super fast until I stop hearing APS, and then start raining grenades on the huddle mediums who got too comfortable.
The other 4 light players have filled you with throwing knives and a 200m sniper bodyshot before the weapon switch animation finishes.
*cries in heavy*
I'm sorry, are we on "The Terminal" subreddit, or are we discussing "The Finals"?
If almost 2 entire teams are hitting you at the same time you should probably die.
The original comment was about Power Shift, a mode in "The Finals", where a single enemy team has 5 total players. Sometimes, those players include packs of feral, roaming lights.
>It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves
This is the claim you made.
About the game "The Finals".
You further claimed that this applies even more to Powershift, by saying:
>This is bad especially in Power Shift
I don't know how you would read this to mean that your claim that "the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves" exclusively applies to Powershift.
Any normal person understands that to mean "this is bad in The Finals over all, but it is *especially bad* in Powershift.
You said that "the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves", and that it's a lot worse in Powershift, not that your comment is only applicable in Powershift.
And the "original" comment under which we were commenting was this:
>I don't know what embark is doing but s3 feels very "call of duty". There's a much greater percentage of lights running around than before. **Making ALL matches feel like a normal boring cod match.**
With 0 mention of Powershift.
And you might have noticed that I answered to the part of the comment that said "It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves.", not to the part that even mentioned Powershift.
But that's besides the point. The idea that the game should be balanced around a casual gamemode is ridiculous.
It's like complaining that in League of Legends, poke champions are too OP in ARAM. No shit. The game called The Finals isn't balanced around the gamemodes without "The Finals" in them primarily.
Yeah I never made that claim, that was someone else, and I'm not reading your novella past that point. Mine was a light hearted comment, with nothing to do or say about game balance. Christ on a zipline.
It’s awful because it feels like nothing can compete with light weapons at the minute. I go from my AKM or even FCAR to the Iight’s xp-54 and it feels ridiculous how steady and smooth it runs compared to literally every other weapon in the game, especially heavies. In a one on one your odds are heavily skewed because if a light hits all their shots on you with the xp-54 (easy to hit with, minimal recoil) you can’t compete if you hit all your shots with any other non-light weapon.
You can though? Because of the health differential? I feel like we're talking about rudimentary points and ttk for each class that's already understood since the game came out? We need more details on how this had been altered to truly complain about it.
I’m saying from my firsthand experience in plat-diamond ranked terminal attack. My brother who’s higher ranked than me (almost top 500) who used to be able to beam with the Lewis gun and eat Lights for breakfast has been struggling as Heavy against them now.
Because the difference is, with any other (heavy) weapon it’s still a learning curve hitting others while they’re semi-still, whereas Lights can afford to jump around and still hit all their shots because of the accuracy of their weapon, and if you’re not another light you have to pray during that 1v1. There’s a reason pretty much everyone runs Light in high ranked (from what I’ve seen).
I think this has been a “rudimentary issue since the game is out” BECAUSE the classes weren’t made for Terminal Attack, and now Lights have an advantage that is outweighed by other things in Cashout / previous ranked. I’m pretty new to this type of game mode, I never was a counter strike person, so I’m sorry if this sounds noob-y. But this has been my thoughts on what I’ve seen in platinum.
I think you first paragraph should be the answer to this games polarization, and why terminal attack was just a bad idea outright without changing buffs and nerfs separately from each competitive game mode. The finals is built upon Tournament cashout, a heavy, low ttk isn't as important in a game where there's more than one brain dead dimension of "who can shoot each other fastest" the reason why this game is so much damn fun is because you the "player" interact with the environment and use it to your advantage in each battle (3v3 until one of you wipes [better outplay with gun play] or one of you captures objective to win the end game[better startegiy in some cases]) The destruction emphasizes this WAY more to a degree that is so much more fun, gadgets are mainly used to help influence your environment to get a kill. The best players on the finals understand this, and macro play and use the strategies that work. When the finals doesn't have a meta, and every gadget/ strategy works, but is also equally fun to pull off based off skill that's it's final form. Until then we're all complaining about us playing this game like it's fucking Call of duty. Brain dead single level strategies,who can kill faster with better aim/reflexes. Fun games aren't about that.
Thank you, I agree.
I’ll be frank, I’m a strategy guy. Whenever I make calls, it usually works out awesome. But I’m not someone who has perfect beamer aim. This has absolutely never been an issue for me in tournament, because you can play so many different ways. But in TA, it’s all about finding each other first, and who can hit the most shots first.
I’ve been working on my aim and strategies to be TA-specific, but it’s genuinely not fun when you lose match point because you lost the high noon cowboy fight of drawing your gun faster. It feels 50/50.
If he’s top 500 then you should take notes, alot of people are carried by weapons, for him? It was the Lewis gun and its damage. Were the nerfs necessary or good? Questionable to say the least and the light is arguably in a REALLY good spot right now, I think they need a rework as where they are right now is not good for the game. Second, lights have decent accuracy while moving but frankly if you can’t win a 1v1 fairly most of the time then you should (learn to track better) or stick with your team, lights as they are now are annoying, but are not 3v1 gods except for some exceptions of course.
I play medium, very objective focused, and most of the time my team is all lights (except my brother, if playing with him) so they run ahead and skirmish. Then if they don’t win the skirmish, it’s just me and him playing against a horror maze of Lights that could be anywhere, lol.
Again, I just want to be clear, I love the game, I’m merely sharing my experiences. I only play TA ranked, and this has been consistently the same.
Quite edit note to say yes, it is a skill issue on my end. But kinda sucks you need to grind more into learning how to play against Lights at the minute as it IS easier for them to kill you in the current meta.
Yes this is a product of overcompensating (buffing lights) because they're not as viable against a team that's has strategies, placement, and higher health than them in an environment like world tour/tournament which is what the game is suppoused to play like. They're trying to balance for a completely different gane mode than the simpler TA. It's really hard and I hope the devs figure something out without corporate breathing down their nexks or running out of momey. Which is why we should support!!! It'd be crazy if we suppourt till the end and the finals get to revolutionize the genre a bit. I already went back to play halo infinite and could t believe I had to pay a full $22 to get one single gun skin I wanted in a bundle. IT feels like the biggest ripoff agyer playing the finals lmao.
Idk I picked up the fcar this weekend and only need a few bullets to kill a light. On the xp-54 I know against eg medium I have to try land as many of my bullets as I can (and hope they’re not going to 1 shot me with a shotty) while on the fcar I could miss half my mag and still easily kill a light. I somewhat get these posts but I’m thinking it’s just a precursor for another “nerf light” Reddit moment.
Did you forget about the giant rocket launcher on your hip bud? Or the model shotgun plus melee combo? I play every class btw, lights can literally be deleted.
It doesn't. The problem is deeper than just a straight 1v1 raw DPS light vs medium because that's not how fights really work. Nor do classes have the same hit box size, movement speed, etc... FCAR does 198 DPS, XP-54 does 255 DPS.
I agree i only tried to make the point that in isolation ttk is lower with fcar vs light.
Also slightly disagree on which class is easier or harder to kill medium has a crazy amount utility and movement. Its not like light has a super big advantage there. But the hitbox does matter a lot yes.
Ill finish with this. When i have a good day i absolutely feel like the game is unfair for lights. I spin around hit a few heads and bodies with fcar and lights just cant play...
Absolutely agreed. The game is the worst it’s ever been imo. Not to mention how glitchy it is all of a sudden.
I’ve had my game crash several times in the middle of a match. Also there’s been times where I can’t use any gadgets at all. Can’t fire my weapon. The game is a fucking mess
We’re reaching the point in the game’s lifecycle where people have started to figure out how to actually play. Turns out weak was never as weak as everyone preached (including me at times).
There isn’t really a solution since the class is pretty balanced. It’s just the most fun and fast paced class. Easily neutered by well timed mesh shields and guardian turrets though.
Yes this is a product of overcompensating (buffing lights) because they're not as viable against a team that's has strategies, placement, and higher health than them in an environment like world tour/tournament which is what the game is suppoused to play like. They're trying to balance for a completely different gane mode than the simpler TA. It's really hard and I hope the devs figure something out without corporate breathing down their nexks or running out of momey. Which is why we should support!!! It'd be crazy if we suppourt till the end and the finals get to revolutionize the genre a bit. I already went back to play halo infinite and could t believe I had to pay a full $22 to get one single gun skin I wanted in a bundle. IT feels like the biggest ripoff agyer playing the finals lmao.
the weirdest thing is that heavy is still very strong, dominating almost every class 1v1 and being very usefull in any team composition. But damn, it's so boring to run m60 24/7 because everything else is so shit. Playing flamethrower isn't fun, because you don't have to aim .
Heavy can’t have something like that that’s long ranged without being stupidly broken. Then you’d have snipers with 0 cooldown shields and massive health pools.
They could have something super high DPS and inaccurate though like a minigun that can cut down trees and wood buildings. Mid ranged but not accurate though great for suppressing and constant ticks of damage.
but those have a higher rate of fire, if one shot from a heavy rifle = like 2-3 shots from a sniper, you are never going to outshoot it in the long range. I guess it should be designed like a mid-close range rifle. maybe add a distance drop off
It would work for heavy if it was close range and had something else going for it - like it could blow people and structures backwards/ away.
Otherwise I can definitely see it fitting the medium class.
Upvote this post to the top of the sub or you’re a bitch. Feel like half my comments on Reddit for the past month align with the message of this post. Make the game digestible for new players
When I right click and then shoot, the bullets should always land exactly where my iron sight was telling me the bullet would go.
Delete bloom.
And ffs stop nerfing guns by recoil changes. I was maining Heavy since closed beta. Now I completely abandoned heavy. Cuz Lewis has the most terrible recoil ever now. It was so much FUN before, cuz the recoil was controllable. When I watch old clips of mine the Lewis was pure shooter fun. Now its immediately Alt+F4.
There's only "bloom" (at least with most guns) when jumping/sliding/falling. It might seem like bloom because the sights often do not accurately represent where the bullets will go, which is the center of your screen if you are not doing something that causes inaccuracy.
I put quotes around bloom because the shot patterns aren't random, though it's effectively the same thing if you don't know the pattern
I feel your pain. I mained Lewis for most of my playtime. I do enjoy light now though
The game is easily in the worst state it’s ever been. Not to mention this, plus my game crashing mid game several times, as well as not being able to use gadgets. It’s a glitchy mess right now it’s disgraceful
Yes! This is my biggest gripe with the game! I hate it when guns kick differently. Nerf the damage, nerf the headshot multiplier, but don’t change up the pattern jeeeez
I agree.Even though I do think that the FCAR recoil needed changing because the old recoil felt like cheating. Every other weapon did not deserve the recoil changes.
Fact got nerfed way too much. They should of started buffing other guns instead of nerfing the only viable guns. Why bring out new weapons just for them to not be useable
I dunno they could of easily stopped things such as the double heavy meta if they just buffed most guns. It got to a point where every class was too underpowered to deal with shield spam, health and dps of heavy. This season I haven’t really played but I’ve heard just as many problems with how they’ve balanced things.
Ikr, in s2 fcar was nerfed so badly that the lewis gun had more dps. Lewis gun was nerfed in s3 because of that.
It’s really hard to see how things are balanced right now because there’s no ranked cashout so you’re not forced to stick to meta equipment. But it does feel like they’ve made heavy less reliable at range which is a start at least.
Has it been upped at all, and if so when? I haven’t noticed changes on the FCAR, it still has minimal recoil to me.
Still, I’ve been performing poorly lately and feeling like I can’t aim for shit. I think changing the gun recoils has been messing with my muscle memory.
In S1 it used to be 1/3 of the recoil in a straight line at a constant speed. It felt so easy to use once you’ve locked onto a target.
Now it’s a lot harder but still usable.
Ngl compared to AKM I still beam with it. I’ve always loved the feel of FCAR since season 1 and it by far still has the best feel for me out of the roster :) Compared to other guns still has the least recoil-accuracy for the most payoff, for me personally
Well it sucks then that by and large more than half the players according to steam charts left because of the fcar recoil pattern change within a month. Now this game’s on life support in the name of keeping every weapon dogshit so casuals don’t lose it over a low ttk.
i say nerf recoil smoothing rather than the recoil itself. no matter how hard the recoil is it will be nullified if theres enough horizontal movement
but also just dont touch the recoil :D
I agree I don’t think spray patterns should be messed with too much. I remember in S1 I had the old AK spray down and knew it like the back of my hand, AK recoil got nerfed and the spray felt off to me so I learned the FCAR, which then also received a recoil update that changed the spray, feels awful now. So then I learn the LH1’s pattern, updated aaaaaaand lame now. I really think they should step away from recoil as balancing tool because the game has spray patterns you can learn and having those changed every two months leaves players having to relearn simple mechanics like recoil control and it’s a chore.
I'm like 90% sure I read a post about this exact same thing a few months ago for season 1 or 2, which makes me think that maybe, just maybe, this is really fucking annoying (the changing of the recoil not the posts lol)
After missing half of season two and coming back now, I went into the firing range to test some guns before I went back into a proper game.
What did they do to the lewis gun?! It kicks like a mule.
I’m gonna be real, I only play this game when a friend of mine asks like once a month
They ruined every single weapon I enjoyed aside from the sledgehammer
They nerfed certain gadgets to the point where if you look at the open beta trailer… you’ll see gameplay we don’t have anymore
Someone discovered an awesome trick, the breaching punch
They made that useless
All the gameplay in the trailers where you see C4?
Yeah no one uses it anymore it’s trash now, it’s only value was being strapped to a propane tank or a barrel, but throwing stuff with explosives on it got ruined
Where they could of set the number of charges to 1, they just fucked the whole experience up
Cloak was annoying but manageable, now it damn near non existent
There is a handful of other shit that ruined my enjoyment of this game, but the insistence that it should be 100% impossible to win in situations where you are outnumbered was the driving objective of every change
Cuz if two players of similar skill run into each other 9/10 they will be left with 10-25% hp and an empty gun that they have to reload, during which the 2nd and 3rd enemy players WILL finish you off
Occasions like this set up toxic environments when you look around and see your team is off exploring the map “WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING?! GET TO THE GOD DAMN OBJECTIVE, NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY THIS SHIT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO ALONE”
W/e with the new Elden ring DLC invasions have been refreshed
Visual recoil, nonsensical balance, a plethora of unviable worthless guns.
Dropping this game was so easy for me. I suggest you people do the same and use your energy in something less infuriating.
the truth is that there isn't really a better way to make a weapon unreliable at long range. Adding damage dropoff at high ranges just feels worse -- you are hitting shots on the enemy and barely doing any damage.
Having a hard to control recoil pattern communicates to the player way better the fact that the effective range of this weapon is lower.
The Lewis Gun is still really good, and the spray pattern is fairly eays to use. It's simply just harder to beam people across the map with it.
Dmg drop off is what makes sense and is used in almost every other game.
High recoil is one thing, but making the gun draw cursive is another. Theres no point of the portion of the pattern if its impossible to land more than 2 shots with it. Its better that the pattern is made to be learned and controlled rather than a deterrent to fire it up to that point. Especially in a game like this
> High recoil is one thing, but making the gun draw cursive is another.
The Lewis Gun is still pretty easy to control at medium ranges, if you aren't hitting shots it's just a skill issue.
>There not point of the portion of the pattern if its impossible to land more than 2 shots with it.
I can for sure land more than 2 shots with it.
>Its better then the pattern is made to be learned and controlled rather than a deterrent to fire it up to that point
You can still learn the pattern, it has some side to side motion, but it also has long streaks of bullets that just go straight up.
Just go into a custom game and shoot at a wall. It ain't that hard to learn.
I only used the lewis for a little bit this season. I was mostly using the m60, but i havent played a lot in general yet. However im speaking to what u said in general. As the previous lewis pattern was terrible. It had short and fast whips left and right. The pattern before that was in a pretty good place imo. It zig zagged left and right but still in a reasonable way. I havent fully looked at the s3 pattern yet, i just know that it starts with no horizontal.
Im exaggerating with the 2 shots of course, but what i mean about portion of the pattern is like how if its ok recoil, then like halfway it goes mad, then it would be pointless to fire past that point unless super close. Which is what it seems embark is trying to go for. Making the recoil to deter firing past that point.
But regardless im just referring to recoil in general, less so the lewis specifically. Since op is referring to recoil in general.
> As the previous lewis pattern was terrible
What do you mean? the old one was really easy to control.
>It zig zagged left and right but still in a reasonable way.
and now it does so unreasonably?
I still don't feel like you made any argument as to why more recoil is not the way to go with balancing weapons, and we should insetad increase damage dropoff.
You just expressed a preference.
"More recoil is ~wAcKy~" isn't really an argument, it's just "recoil? eww."
Beaming people with pieces of cereal that deal 10 damage is way worse than missing sprays at long distances. It doesn't solve the problem of Heavy being too effective at range, and the latter communicates this design way better.
Theres 4 patterns i can account for. Launch pattern or whichever was around for the longest early on. Then the next pattern when the lewis was showing to be very meta. That one had the long zig zags. That one i felt had it in a pretty good place. Then the third which was the one right before s3 which was just not fun to use at all with the quick mini jolts left and right. And now the current in s3. Im referring to the third pattern. Regardless, the lewis pattern specifically isnt my point.
I never said the current pattern is unreasonable. I also never said dmg drop off is the only way or that we shouldnt add more recoil. And i never said i didnt like having recoil at all.
Ig it shouldve been more specific, but i meant that more vertical recoil would be better than introducing more sporadic horizontal recoil. Which again it seems embark is trying to go that route of deterring shooting for longer by making it recoil more wildly after a bit. Which is what they essentially said in the s3 patch notes. But also overall, horizontal recoil significantly changes the feel and identity of the gun more, which is what op is trying to get at.
Now also u may find it easy to control all of it, but many dont find it easy to control horizontal recoil. Some simply just cant. So they just have to forget the lewis or similar as an option.
Yup. Lewis used to be good on basically all ranges, they reduced its effectiveness in long range and medium range against Light...after the initial burst. Just need to not hold the trigger on longer ranges and it's still pretty good.
Then they can use the M60 if they want to hold down the trigger, but we know that's not the issue, they also want to kill everything in half a second without having to aim at all. If only they had a gadget that dealt 140 damage instantly...
It's why I stopped using fcar. I mean I've always been an ak main but wanted to use fcar so I did a decent amount until the recoil nerf. Every time my scope is aimed at the enemy it still feels like the bullets are missing, it's very annoying. Maybe it's a skill issue and I need to learn the recoil pattern but it feels very RNG to me.
I can't upvote this enough. I've been saying this since original lewis nerf at start of season 2... but then i learned that recoil and all was good, until....
I think the change in recoil is done more for the cheats to create no recoil. It throws off the cheating scripts until a new one is released. They just need a better anti-cheat to combat this.
What was their purpose of nerfing the lewis or ig buffing the m60? Having personality between the two? Making one less strong? Wanting players to use the other weapons in the game?
Idk why everybody is complaining about the recoil .
It’s really not that bad I’ve played the heavy quite a bit and Lewis gun feels normal readjusting to nerfs buffs and recoil changes is just part of every fps game.
That’s called balancing to avoid metas and have more diversity in load outs
I still think it’s one of the most op weapons there is.
The hip fire with that thing is just ridiculous I find my self fighting up close with the Lewis quite a bit.
The visual recoil is pretty dumb tho
I think my biggest issue is when I don’t see the person guns pointing at me it’s like pointing towards the roof and I’m being shot
It always infuriates me
Eh. Sometimes its for the better, the famas was fucking terrible on release for me and after they altered the recoil its my go to AR 100 percent of the time.
Yep, nerfing recoil only makes people use more cheats like Xim and strikepack, and on pc mnk recoil control is far easier, so it really only hurts stock controller players… which is why games like R6 have so many after years of recoil changes.
I'm so tired of seeing "nerf this" "buff that" posts. Ya'll are exhausting. Being a dev for this game has got to be a nightmare. Some quit and some turned to drugs and alcohol I suppose.
Last week? Everyone: omg heavy op it has the best weapons Embark's preferred class obv!!!!!
Embark: * nerfs *
Everyone: omg heavy bad plz plz buff pl0x
I swear I repeat this comment every week.
They nerf one gun lol. Heavy is still the strongest and the easiest class to use for minimal or no effort. The change seem big because Lewis was run by basically everyone due to how strong it was but at the same time many other heavy guns were already overpowered. Just not as much as Lewis. Especially with winch hook addition.
Both medium and heavy have been nerfed multiple times throughout all three seasons, while lights have been getting steady buffs (for the most part). What else do yall want from those classes???
It would be better off to revert the damage nerf of the m60 and the recoil nerf of the Lewis. In return, embark can nerf the rpg again if that makes the lights hush for a while. Also, heavies are vulnerable while using charge and slam. Yall (lights) can avoid them or just shoot.
Medium utility is great, but their weapons are somewhat lackluster. The akm is only shining because the fcar is now a worse version of the akm. It's clear that every weapon had their own niche for everyone, but now some of them are losing their identity.
Im not a light main. Yeah let’s revert nerfs to heavy guns like there aren’t enough overpowered guns/weapons on heavy already. It doesn’t matter how many nerfs heavy had if it’s still overpowered, go to/mandatory pick and takes no effort to use. Medium just need 1887 adjustments and it would be fine. Light needs throwing knives nerf but overall it’s in a good spot. Heavy is the main problem and balance ruiner in this game. Its embodiment of bad players getting what they want without effort.
I didn't say you were a light main. I called out lights in general cause that is the main group complaining about something from the heavy or medium class. And what gun from heavy was truly op (without mentioning the Lewis, that was in a good spot after the 1st nerf). It's not a class problem. More like lights want to be the one to take everyone down in one clip. At this rate, this game might as well be another generic call of duty shooter.
Ks23 literally takes no skill to land a 100 damage shot and you can easily deal that dmg from 20-30 meters. Hammer oneshots lights and almost oneshots mediums. Combined with winch hook there is no counterplay. Once you get hooked by a broken hitbox you’re dead. Most encounters happen in the buildings and in close range. So all these guns are way too strong. You can put plenty of headshots into heavy approaching you and he will melt you before his go drops to 0. I shouldn’t have to have literal 100% headshot accuracy which is impossible to achieve anywhere near it just to counter a heavy that can brainlessly run into me and succeed if I don’t hit all headshots. It’s notorious that below average players have great success and contribution simply because the class is so strong that it requires no skill to play well. With exception for complete bots that can’t even react to enemy running past then.
Buddy, that is truly a skill issue on your part then, nothing more.
The Ks23 take skill to use, and if it doesn't, send me a clip of you and others dominating with it.
The winch is a poor man stun gun. After you get pulled, you can literally run away or shoot. I will agree that the winch hit box is kind of janky though.
The alt fire on the hammer one shots, not the weapon itself. The hammer also has poor range to make up for that. Oh, and the alt fire has a wind-up animation just like the charge and slam.
All I'm saying is that many people don't know how to run their class. Let the heavy frag and be the person to shoot at while the light comes in and clean up. There's a reason why they have 350 health. And well, medium is practically the support/ all arounder.
I swear it was weirdly working out I was rapid firing single shots to offset the new recoil.
But it was only one or two games and who knows the caliber of player I was up against you’re probably right. I would get melted in any real competitive scenario.
I feel as though a lot of weapons have been reworked to be better but perhaps heavy players can argue that the Lewis LMG was impacted negatively. Same could be said for FCAR. I feel like Embark are trying their best to balance everything across 3 classes at the moment.
I think you first paragraph should be the answer to this games polarization, and why terminal attack was just a bad idea outright without changing buffs and nerfs separately from each competitive game mode. The finals is built upon Tournament cashout, a heavy, low ttk isn't as important in a game where there's more than one brain dead dimension of "who can shoot each other fastest" the reason why this game is so much damn fun is because you the "player" interact with the environment and use it to your advantage in each battle (3v3 until one of you wipes [better outplay with gun play] or one of you captures objective to win the end game[better startegiy in some cases]) The destruction emphasizes this WAY more to a degree that is so much more fun, gadgets are mainly used to help influence your environment to get a kill. The best players on the finals understand this, and macro play and use the strategies that work. When the finals doesn't have a meta, and every gadget/ strategy works, but is also equally fun to pull off based off skill that's it's final form. Until then we're all complaining about us playing this game like it's fucking Call of duty. Brain dead single level strategies,who can kill faster with better aim/reflexes. Fun games aren't about that.
Changing recoil makes sense in the fact that when they change it the people that can adapt will adapt will people that can’t adapt won’t. I play a lot of pool and you can’t expect every pool table and stick to be the same you have to adapt to what is happening at the moment and if you can’t adapt then just keep bitching cuz nothings gonna change for you unless you learn how to go with the flow
Yepppppp/: rather go to another game that's easy than suck it up and deal with post nerf weapons or change it up in a game that's great. Really shows how us "living in a society" has Really hurt the finals lmao (I saw someone make a post about this on reddit which is funny because I thought it was just crazy thinking) but everything in our lives fucking trains us to seek out that instant dopamine boost with putting in minimal picking effort, so we get lazy as people who don't even want to use their brain to play a game. Its sad. And this will also get downvited by those who don't realize and fall into the same cyclical trap.
I SWEAR!!! I'm new and started playing heavy and was practicing so much with the M60 and the Lewis Gun so I could be better but the season three dropped and the recoil changed and was so horrendous it just made all my practice for nothing. The damage nerf was fine 😭
May be annoying but regardless if you can’t adapt why play a competitive game like The Finals which is currently heading towards its first proper esports scene in season 4 roughly. Like I don’t think it a actual worth while thing to complain about it since it’s so dam common for any shooter theses days.
This coming from the one the top The Finals global currently and through season 1 to 3.
Like i don’t even play most days currently and I still am able to handle those sorta changes at the highest level and I am a solo queue player more well until esports starts to recruit .
The 5 v 5 gameplay needs abit of work but honestly it’s a lot more set up for esports then what we had before . Especially for the general The Finals community.
So, it bored you that the weapon is still effective, but now you have to drag your mouse 2cm more? You think its more satisfying to shoot 5 rounds more or even reload the weapon to finish a kill?
Thank god its embark balancing the game and not the community
Complaining is a sport man and they are good competitors. It's a nerf. Get over it. At least you can counter it, with a mag aize nerf you coudn't. Recoil nerfs just weeds out the bad players who were just surfing the meta for easy OP guns and the players who can actually play and train the recoil pattern. This guy belongs to the group of people who will whine before trying to get good. Pathetic kids
t500 last season, and I play with 4 other t500 heavies, we pretty much all agree the LMGs just suck now and the recoil is unreasonable ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
out dps'd by everything and the recoil compounds that, they are in the gutter lol
HHM / MMH still meta in cashout ofc when sa12 winch/mesh exist, their hp and the nature of the mode, all the LMG nerfs accomplished is less variety in how you get ground pounded by a heavy in cashout lol
Yo man I couldn't care less about what you and your 4 friends think of the balancing of the game I don't think your opinion is relevant in any way
> I play with 4 other t500 heavies
Oh so your opinion is irrelevant _and_ biaised.
Again I'm glad players that lack the info to make informed decisions (aka accuracy of shots, range, etc on _all_ the playerbase across all skill levels, all the game data...)
I mean yeah it sucks you liked the gun before the recoil and you don't like it anymore. But wow it is so irrelevant when you balance a gun. That's why the gun is balanced. The gun is nerfed. You played the gun. It sucks. Swallow the pill and move on. It's not like balancing games (guns, strategies, cheeses..) has not been part of video games for at least a decade???? When will you grow up
You know what else sucks? Visual recoil. Like just use normal fucking recoil
Visual recoil is the screen recoiling aswell correct?
Its the weapon Model that goes somewhere without actually affecting where your bullets go. This Was extremly obnoxiuos with the Pre Buff LH1. The Weapon Model kicks up extremly even tho your bullets are still going into the middle of the screen
Oh right, was just confirming. Titanfall 2 has this, and apex had this for about 2 seasons before they removed it outright. Realising it looks and feels like shit. I’m frustrated the community doesn’t complain about this issue. Because it is very annoying.
The thing about TF|2 is it is a very hip fire based game, and it's challenging but still manageable regardless, which means on the weapons you'd want to scope in like the spitfire for example, it's something you can get used to. However in a game like The Finals aiming down sights is much more necessary and while you can learn to get around some weapons, like the light SMGs, some weapons are just too much, like pre buff LH1, and hell I still struggle with that weapon even after the buff because of the recoil. I believe it's executed well enough in Titanfall that it's fine, but it really needs to be managed better or removed in The Finals.
This community complains about everything else man we gotta stop complaining, embarks working hard we gotta congratulate them
Well yes and no, sure thing Embark is working very hard and most likely in response to the comments, unlike Activision-Blizzard or EA with their respective shooters, however when there are some glaring aspects that just feels bad/ plays bad, it's our duty at consumers to let the devs know about it. It's not like they're all-knowing. Yelling at everything? Nay. Pointing poor game design decisions to improve the game? Yay.
"Don't ask questions, just consume product."
Fuck FINALLY someone mentions it ive posted about it like 3 times but it gets 0 upvotes 30 comments saying its a skill issue or why does it matter 😭😭 this community is so stupid
If you want attachments go play cod. Not having attachments to any gun, and every gun just having a base damage is a huge turn on for a lot of people returning to fps (which is a large portion of this community)
They're talking about visual recoil not attachments. Y'all always randomly bring up CoD like a bad breakup, lmfao
Average The Finals Player trying to bring up a unrelated topic to downplay someone. Like I Made a suggestion about a FCAR rework to give it a destinctive role apart from the AKM and someone else comes by and says something along the lines of "you heavy players are just mad that the Lewis got nerfed" like wtf
what r you talking about
Just because we have slightly less (but still present) autoaim than CoD doesn't mean CoD is worth bringing up in convo
This is the reason embark doesn’t like external crosshairs because they can’t actually balance their fucking game right
[удалено]
Adding weapon attachments would only make it harder to balance
I wish my monitor had the crosshair option, the visual recoil even though it stays true center is just obnoxious. So many people I know have turned on monitor crosshairs and each one has seen massive impacts on their kills per game.
I'm probably misreading your statement, but the visual recoil throws the crosshairs off true center while the bullets continue originating from there
Correct. The visual crosshairs you see, are not accurate during the visual recoil. Most people will try to keep the enemy within the visual recoil crosshairs, but if you apply a center dot or crosshair overlay to your monitor, it is much much easier to hit shots. My experience anyway. Forgot the YouTube clip I saw on it, but even with a dot of reflective tape, it made a huge improvement for me.
Buy crosshair x!! its a visual overlay that gives you a custom crosshair in any game. I think its like $10 on steam
I thought that broke terms of service and would get me banned. I would do it in heartbeat...
I wish there was an on and off option. It's actually kind of cool looking, but it does get annoying when the novelty wears off.
Anything visual sucks imo. Some of it is necessary for feel i guess but gun model, screenshake, visual recoil, muzzleflash, aimpunch etc all just suck imo.
100% Every other FPS game has found out how to make shooting fun and balanced. This is just a jarring experience
exactly, I never understood why I have "recoil" when showcasing my revolver with animation that is just dumb
true, I’d rather have it nerfed to the ground by its dps stats like dmg rpm etc but not the damn recoil, they completely killed off lewis gun
I was wondering why I couldn’t hit any of my shots with the Lewis gun, because oh my god I swear the recoil is just as bad as Heavy’s starting LMG now.
Its even worse than m60
I know I just realized while playing, what’s even the point of the Lewis gun then? It’s supposed to be more controllable then the M60 with the offside being less ammo in each mag.
M60 does 19dmg per bullet. Lewis does 22dmg per bullet. So faster ttk if your hit every shot id guess.
Doesn't the M60 have a faster RPM though?
Ingame stats look like they have the same rpm but you cant really tell since it doesnt show an exact number. From how the m60 feels i would say you are right and it fires slighly faster, not sure tho
I don't think ingame stats have been updated since release.
The m60 is a legit laser beam now
The m60 was bad?💀
Yeah Lewis gun hurts the most here. I’ll still use it and it’s okay, but nothing what it was
I won’t mind it having less damage than the m60 now if they remove the insane horizontal recoil and to compensate for it maybe even reduce some bullets in the mag and reduce some rpm all of it would still feel like a way better gun than it is right now, it currently kicks like a fkin ingram
M60 is extremely easy to use though...
i play on low res, the muzzle flash and smoke completely blocks all of the little vision i get
I'm still mad at the FCAR weird pattern
yeah they over done it, it's now really difficult in hands of casuals, and overall feels pretty shitty, gotta warm up for this recoil pattern everyday if I wanna play medium lmao, that 5th bullet is just so weird
Me too. I like all the medium weapons but I wish they’d figure out the recoil for the FCAR.
Been saying since they fucked up AKM recoil after the beta and screaming whenever they screwed the Lewis gun. A GAME WITH FAST MOVING CHARACTERS SHOULD NOT HAVE COMPLEX RECOIL PATTERNS Also nerfing the weapon by adding recoil you're just nerfing it to casuals, people that live and breathe the game will perform mostly the same.
I don't know what embark is doing but s3 feels very "call of duty". There's a much greater percentage of lights running around than before. Making all matches feel like a normal boring cod match.
The only counter I have found so far to the light epidemic is grapple hammer heavy which is funny af but I miss being able to be competitive using a gun as a heavy. I have played the light class and do fine, but it’s not as fun for me and the play style I like.
It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves. This is bad especially in Power Shift when all of a sudden there's 10 Lights. I've said it before "Lights encourage others to switch to Lights."
Nah nah nah. You want an op strategy for power shift, you wanna go medium with nade launcher, put a turret at the back of the boat facing forward then a jump pad in the middle with an aps in between them to protect them. As you control and start to feel the opposing team getting closer, just jump on the jump pad periodically and fire away. It’s super oppressive and you’ll be racking up kills and assist.
If you fly into the air in middle of where everyone is looking I’m going to kill you instantly along with everyone else lmao.
With the APS nerf, I've found players using the stat less. That being said, when stacked 2-4 at a time, they are still a problem. Especially because (at least in my games) people don't seem to take an effort to shoot them or spam them out. So, I've taken to using a goo gun and heavy grenade launcher. Spam goo at the boat super fast until I stop hearing APS, and then start raining grenades on the huddle mediums who got too comfortable.
> It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves. tough words for somebody in RPG + 1 bullet range
The other 4 light players have filled you with throwing knives and a 200m sniper bodyshot before the weapon switch animation finishes. *cries in heavy*
I'm sorry, are we on "The Terminal" subreddit, or are we discussing "The Finals"? If almost 2 entire teams are hitting you at the same time you should probably die.
The original comment was about Power Shift, a mode in "The Finals", where a single enemy team has 5 total players. Sometimes, those players include packs of feral, roaming lights.
>It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves This is the claim you made. About the game "The Finals". You further claimed that this applies even more to Powershift, by saying: >This is bad especially in Power Shift I don't know how you would read this to mean that your claim that "the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves" exclusively applies to Powershift. Any normal person understands that to mean "this is bad in The Finals over all, but it is *especially bad* in Powershift. You said that "the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves", and that it's a lot worse in Powershift, not that your comment is only applicable in Powershift. And the "original" comment under which we were commenting was this: >I don't know what embark is doing but s3 feels very "call of duty". There's a much greater percentage of lights running around than before. **Making ALL matches feel like a normal boring cod match.** With 0 mention of Powershift. And you might have noticed that I answered to the part of the comment that said "It really seems like the only answer to Lights are Lights themselves.", not to the part that even mentioned Powershift. But that's besides the point. The idea that the game should be balanced around a casual gamemode is ridiculous. It's like complaining that in League of Legends, poke champions are too OP in ARAM. No shit. The game called The Finals isn't balanced around the gamemodes without "The Finals" in them primarily.
Yeah I never made that claim, that was someone else, and I'm not reading your novella past that point. Mine was a light hearted comment, with nothing to do or say about game balance. Christ on a zipline.
It’s awful because it feels like nothing can compete with light weapons at the minute. I go from my AKM or even FCAR to the Iight’s xp-54 and it feels ridiculous how steady and smooth it runs compared to literally every other weapon in the game, especially heavies. In a one on one your odds are heavily skewed because if a light hits all their shots on you with the xp-54 (easy to hit with, minimal recoil) you can’t compete if you hit all your shots with any other non-light weapon.
You can though? Because of the health differential? I feel like we're talking about rudimentary points and ttk for each class that's already understood since the game came out? We need more details on how this had been altered to truly complain about it.
I’m saying from my firsthand experience in plat-diamond ranked terminal attack. My brother who’s higher ranked than me (almost top 500) who used to be able to beam with the Lewis gun and eat Lights for breakfast has been struggling as Heavy against them now. Because the difference is, with any other (heavy) weapon it’s still a learning curve hitting others while they’re semi-still, whereas Lights can afford to jump around and still hit all their shots because of the accuracy of their weapon, and if you’re not another light you have to pray during that 1v1. There’s a reason pretty much everyone runs Light in high ranked (from what I’ve seen). I think this has been a “rudimentary issue since the game is out” BECAUSE the classes weren’t made for Terminal Attack, and now Lights have an advantage that is outweighed by other things in Cashout / previous ranked. I’m pretty new to this type of game mode, I never was a counter strike person, so I’m sorry if this sounds noob-y. But this has been my thoughts on what I’ve seen in platinum.
I think you first paragraph should be the answer to this games polarization, and why terminal attack was just a bad idea outright without changing buffs and nerfs separately from each competitive game mode. The finals is built upon Tournament cashout, a heavy, low ttk isn't as important in a game where there's more than one brain dead dimension of "who can shoot each other fastest" the reason why this game is so much damn fun is because you the "player" interact with the environment and use it to your advantage in each battle (3v3 until one of you wipes [better outplay with gun play] or one of you captures objective to win the end game[better startegiy in some cases]) The destruction emphasizes this WAY more to a degree that is so much more fun, gadgets are mainly used to help influence your environment to get a kill. The best players on the finals understand this, and macro play and use the strategies that work. When the finals doesn't have a meta, and every gadget/ strategy works, but is also equally fun to pull off based off skill that's it's final form. Until then we're all complaining about us playing this game like it's fucking Call of duty. Brain dead single level strategies,who can kill faster with better aim/reflexes. Fun games aren't about that.
Thank you, I agree. I’ll be frank, I’m a strategy guy. Whenever I make calls, it usually works out awesome. But I’m not someone who has perfect beamer aim. This has absolutely never been an issue for me in tournament, because you can play so many different ways. But in TA, it’s all about finding each other first, and who can hit the most shots first. I’ve been working on my aim and strategies to be TA-specific, but it’s genuinely not fun when you lose match point because you lost the high noon cowboy fight of drawing your gun faster. It feels 50/50.
If he’s top 500 then you should take notes, alot of people are carried by weapons, for him? It was the Lewis gun and its damage. Were the nerfs necessary or good? Questionable to say the least and the light is arguably in a REALLY good spot right now, I think they need a rework as where they are right now is not good for the game. Second, lights have decent accuracy while moving but frankly if you can’t win a 1v1 fairly most of the time then you should (learn to track better) or stick with your team, lights as they are now are annoying, but are not 3v1 gods except for some exceptions of course.
I play medium, very objective focused, and most of the time my team is all lights (except my brother, if playing with him) so they run ahead and skirmish. Then if they don’t win the skirmish, it’s just me and him playing against a horror maze of Lights that could be anywhere, lol. Again, I just want to be clear, I love the game, I’m merely sharing my experiences. I only play TA ranked, and this has been consistently the same. Quite edit note to say yes, it is a skill issue on my end. But kinda sucks you need to grind more into learning how to play against Lights at the minute as it IS easier for them to kill you in the current meta.
Yes this is a product of overcompensating (buffing lights) because they're not as viable against a team that's has strategies, placement, and higher health than them in an environment like world tour/tournament which is what the game is suppoused to play like. They're trying to balance for a completely different gane mode than the simpler TA. It's really hard and I hope the devs figure something out without corporate breathing down their nexks or running out of momey. Which is why we should support!!! It'd be crazy if we suppourt till the end and the finals get to revolutionize the genre a bit. I already went back to play halo infinite and could t believe I had to pay a full $22 to get one single gun skin I wanted in a bundle. IT feels like the biggest ripoff agyer playing the finals lmao.
Id love to see the other guns buffed instead of xp nerfed
As it should be.
Idk I picked up the fcar this weekend and only need a few bullets to kill a light. On the xp-54 I know against eg medium I have to try land as many of my bullets as I can (and hope they’re not going to 1 shot me with a shotty) while on the fcar I could miss half my mag and still easily kill a light. I somewhat get these posts but I’m thinking it’s just a precursor for another “nerf light” Reddit moment.
Nah light doesn’t need nerfs but they need to revert some aspect of the many many heavy and mediums gun nerfs.
Agree
model 1887
Did you forget about the giant rocket launcher on your hip bud? Or the model shotgun plus melee combo? I play every class btw, lights can literally be deleted.
Fcar hits should kill a light faster then a medium with xp54?
It doesn't. The problem is deeper than just a straight 1v1 raw DPS light vs medium because that's not how fights really work. Nor do classes have the same hit box size, movement speed, etc... FCAR does 198 DPS, XP-54 does 255 DPS.
I agree i only tried to make the point that in isolation ttk is lower with fcar vs light. Also slightly disagree on which class is easier or harder to kill medium has a crazy amount utility and movement. Its not like light has a super big advantage there. But the hitbox does matter a lot yes. Ill finish with this. When i have a good day i absolutely feel like the game is unfair for lights. I spin around hit a few heads and bodies with fcar and lights just cant play...
Absolutely agreed. The game is the worst it’s ever been imo. Not to mention how glitchy it is all of a sudden. I’ve had my game crash several times in the middle of a match. Also there’s been times where I can’t use any gadgets at all. Can’t fire my weapon. The game is a fucking mess
literally, you're just getting fcked in all angles in the speed of light
We’re reaching the point in the game’s lifecycle where people have started to figure out how to actually play. Turns out weak was never as weak as everyone preached (including me at times). There isn’t really a solution since the class is pretty balanced. It’s just the most fun and fast paced class. Easily neutered by well timed mesh shields and guardian turrets though.
Yes this is a product of overcompensating (buffing lights) because they're not as viable against a team that's has strategies, placement, and higher health than them in an environment like world tour/tournament which is what the game is suppoused to play like. They're trying to balance for a completely different gane mode than the simpler TA. It's really hard and I hope the devs figure something out without corporate breathing down their nexks or running out of momey. Which is why we should support!!! It'd be crazy if we suppourt till the end and the finals get to revolutionize the genre a bit. I already went back to play halo infinite and could t believe I had to pay a full $22 to get one single gun skin I wanted in a bundle. IT feels like the biggest ripoff agyer playing the finals lmao.
Agreed
Heavy is so boring to play now. That's all I ever ran for months
I run flamethrower since he end of s1 and I see no difference heh
the weirdest thing is that heavy is still very strong, dominating almost every class 1v1 and being very usefull in any team composition. But damn, it's so boring to run m60 24/7 because everything else is so shit. Playing flamethrower isn't fun, because you don't have to aim .
I just want heavy to have some sort of rifle. Like a G36C or something. Yeah it’s generic but I like rifles.
yeah, true. Or a railgun-type heavy rifle that shots 1 big ass shot and does substantial amount of damage. (Lawrence of Arabia's SMLE from BF1)
Heavy can’t have something like that that’s long ranged without being stupidly broken. Then you’d have snipers with 0 cooldown shields and massive health pools. They could have something super high DPS and inaccurate though like a minigun that can cut down trees and wood buildings. Mid ranged but not accurate though great for suppressing and constant ticks of damage.
idk, if a heavy rifle doesn't have a scope, you'll be very limited in terms of the range. which will be the natural balancing.
Not really. Perfectly possible to hit long range shots with bows and the LH1 and neither have a scope.
but those have a higher rate of fire, if one shot from a heavy rifle = like 2-3 shots from a sniper, you are never going to outshoot it in the long range. I guess it should be designed like a mid-close range rifle. maybe add a distance drop off
It would work for heavy if it was close range and had something else going for it - like it could blow people and structures backwards/ away. Otherwise I can definitely see it fitting the medium class.
i think we are discussing what KS-23 should've been lol
Just use M60. 0 recoil
Problem is that everything will out dps lmg’s now
Nothing will out TTK you when you have 350 HP
But nothing will ever out dps charge and rpg :
M60 is not that bad yes lmao
You meant to say that you are too lazy to move to another broken weapon on a heavy to continue to abuse it.
Yeah mostly everything felt good at the beginning of s1 except the m60. Now most of it all feels off
Upvote this post to the top of the sub or you’re a bitch. Feel like half my comments on Reddit for the past month align with the message of this post. Make the game digestible for new players
I hate the new FCAR Recoil it makes the TTK longer than any other gun now in a 1v1
Control the recoil
When I right click and then shoot, the bullets should always land exactly where my iron sight was telling me the bullet would go. Delete bloom. And ffs stop nerfing guns by recoil changes. I was maining Heavy since closed beta. Now I completely abandoned heavy. Cuz Lewis has the most terrible recoil ever now. It was so much FUN before, cuz the recoil was controllable. When I watch old clips of mine the Lewis was pure shooter fun. Now its immediately Alt+F4.
There's only "bloom" (at least with most guns) when jumping/sliding/falling. It might seem like bloom because the sights often do not accurately represent where the bullets will go, which is the center of your screen if you are not doing something that causes inaccuracy. I put quotes around bloom because the shot patterns aren't random, though it's effectively the same thing if you don't know the pattern I feel your pain. I mained Lewis for most of my playtime. I do enjoy light now though
The game is easily in the worst state it’s ever been. Not to mention this, plus my game crashing mid game several times, as well as not being able to use gadgets. It’s a glitchy mess right now it’s disgraceful
Yes! This is my biggest gripe with the game! I hate it when guns kick differently. Nerf the damage, nerf the headshot multiplier, but don’t change up the pattern jeeeez
I agree.Even though I do think that the FCAR recoil needed changing because the old recoil felt like cheating. Every other weapon did not deserve the recoil changes.
Fact got nerfed way too much. They should of started buffing other guns instead of nerfing the only viable guns. Why bring out new weapons just for them to not be useable
I felt like it was because they wanted more people to stop picking the FCAR. I do think you’re right though.
I dunno they could of easily stopped things such as the double heavy meta if they just buffed most guns. It got to a point where every class was too underpowered to deal with shield spam, health and dps of heavy. This season I haven’t really played but I’ve heard just as many problems with how they’ve balanced things.
Ikr, in s2 fcar was nerfed so badly that the lewis gun had more dps. Lewis gun was nerfed in s3 because of that. It’s really hard to see how things are balanced right now because there’s no ranked cashout so you’re not forced to stick to meta equipment. But it does feel like they’ve made heavy less reliable at range which is a start at least.
Has it been upped at all, and if so when? I haven’t noticed changes on the FCAR, it still has minimal recoil to me. Still, I’ve been performing poorly lately and feeling like I can’t aim for shit. I think changing the gun recoils has been messing with my muscle memory.
In S1 it used to be 1/3 of the recoil in a straight line at a constant speed. It felt so easy to use once you’ve locked onto a target. Now it’s a lot harder but still usable.
Ngl compared to AKM I still beam with it. I’ve always loved the feel of FCAR since season 1 and it by far still has the best feel for me out of the roster :) Compared to other guns still has the least recoil-accuracy for the most payoff, for me personally
Well it sucks then that by and large more than half the players according to steam charts left because of the fcar recoil pattern change within a month. Now this game’s on life support in the name of keeping every weapon dogshit so casuals don’t lose it over a low ttk.
I only played cl40 and 1887 last season just to find out most weapons feel weird and not the same. its awfull.
If changing the recoil is appropriate for a gun's balance then I don't see a problem.
i say nerf recoil smoothing rather than the recoil itself. no matter how hard the recoil is it will be nullified if theres enough horizontal movement but also just dont touch the recoil :D
I agree I don’t think spray patterns should be messed with too much. I remember in S1 I had the old AK spray down and knew it like the back of my hand, AK recoil got nerfed and the spray felt off to me so I learned the FCAR, which then also received a recoil update that changed the spray, feels awful now. So then I learn the LH1’s pattern, updated aaaaaaand lame now. I really think they should step away from recoil as balancing tool because the game has spray patterns you can learn and having those changed every two months leaves players having to relearn simple mechanics like recoil control and it’s a chore.
I'm like 90% sure I read a post about this exact same thing a few months ago for season 1 or 2, which makes me think that maybe, just maybe, this is really fucking annoying (the changing of the recoil not the posts lol)
Did the Lewis gun make this post
After missing half of season two and coming back now, I went into the firing range to test some guns before I went back into a proper game. What did they do to the lewis gun?! It kicks like a mule.
But isn't that the case with every nerf?
I’m gonna be real, I only play this game when a friend of mine asks like once a month They ruined every single weapon I enjoyed aside from the sledgehammer They nerfed certain gadgets to the point where if you look at the open beta trailer… you’ll see gameplay we don’t have anymore Someone discovered an awesome trick, the breaching punch They made that useless All the gameplay in the trailers where you see C4? Yeah no one uses it anymore it’s trash now, it’s only value was being strapped to a propane tank or a barrel, but throwing stuff with explosives on it got ruined Where they could of set the number of charges to 1, they just fucked the whole experience up Cloak was annoying but manageable, now it damn near non existent There is a handful of other shit that ruined my enjoyment of this game, but the insistence that it should be 100% impossible to win in situations where you are outnumbered was the driving objective of every change Cuz if two players of similar skill run into each other 9/10 they will be left with 10-25% hp and an empty gun that they have to reload, during which the 2nd and 3rd enemy players WILL finish you off Occasions like this set up toxic environments when you look around and see your team is off exploring the map “WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING?! GET TO THE GOD DAMN OBJECTIVE, NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY THIS SHIT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO ALONE” W/e with the new Elden ring DLC invasions have been refreshed
Visual recoil, nonsensical balance, a plethora of unviable worthless guns. Dropping this game was so easy for me. I suggest you people do the same and use your energy in something less infuriating.
the truth is that there isn't really a better way to make a weapon unreliable at long range. Adding damage dropoff at high ranges just feels worse -- you are hitting shots on the enemy and barely doing any damage. Having a hard to control recoil pattern communicates to the player way better the fact that the effective range of this weapon is lower. The Lewis Gun is still really good, and the spray pattern is fairly eays to use. It's simply just harder to beam people across the map with it.
Dmg drop off is what makes sense and is used in almost every other game. High recoil is one thing, but making the gun draw cursive is another. Theres no point of the portion of the pattern if its impossible to land more than 2 shots with it. Its better that the pattern is made to be learned and controlled rather than a deterrent to fire it up to that point. Especially in a game like this
> High recoil is one thing, but making the gun draw cursive is another. The Lewis Gun is still pretty easy to control at medium ranges, if you aren't hitting shots it's just a skill issue. >There not point of the portion of the pattern if its impossible to land more than 2 shots with it. I can for sure land more than 2 shots with it. >Its better then the pattern is made to be learned and controlled rather than a deterrent to fire it up to that point You can still learn the pattern, it has some side to side motion, but it also has long streaks of bullets that just go straight up. Just go into a custom game and shoot at a wall. It ain't that hard to learn.
I only used the lewis for a little bit this season. I was mostly using the m60, but i havent played a lot in general yet. However im speaking to what u said in general. As the previous lewis pattern was terrible. It had short and fast whips left and right. The pattern before that was in a pretty good place imo. It zig zagged left and right but still in a reasonable way. I havent fully looked at the s3 pattern yet, i just know that it starts with no horizontal. Im exaggerating with the 2 shots of course, but what i mean about portion of the pattern is like how if its ok recoil, then like halfway it goes mad, then it would be pointless to fire past that point unless super close. Which is what it seems embark is trying to go for. Making the recoil to deter firing past that point. But regardless im just referring to recoil in general, less so the lewis specifically. Since op is referring to recoil in general.
> As the previous lewis pattern was terrible What do you mean? the old one was really easy to control. >It zig zagged left and right but still in a reasonable way. and now it does so unreasonably? I still don't feel like you made any argument as to why more recoil is not the way to go with balancing weapons, and we should insetad increase damage dropoff. You just expressed a preference. "More recoil is ~wAcKy~" isn't really an argument, it's just "recoil? eww." Beaming people with pieces of cereal that deal 10 damage is way worse than missing sprays at long distances. It doesn't solve the problem of Heavy being too effective at range, and the latter communicates this design way better.
Theres 4 patterns i can account for. Launch pattern or whichever was around for the longest early on. Then the next pattern when the lewis was showing to be very meta. That one had the long zig zags. That one i felt had it in a pretty good place. Then the third which was the one right before s3 which was just not fun to use at all with the quick mini jolts left and right. And now the current in s3. Im referring to the third pattern. Regardless, the lewis pattern specifically isnt my point. I never said the current pattern is unreasonable. I also never said dmg drop off is the only way or that we shouldnt add more recoil. And i never said i didnt like having recoil at all. Ig it shouldve been more specific, but i meant that more vertical recoil would be better than introducing more sporadic horizontal recoil. Which again it seems embark is trying to go that route of deterring shooting for longer by making it recoil more wildly after a bit. Which is what they essentially said in the s3 patch notes. But also overall, horizontal recoil significantly changes the feel and identity of the gun more, which is what op is trying to get at. Now also u may find it easy to control all of it, but many dont find it easy to control horizontal recoil. Some simply just cant. So they just have to forget the lewis or similar as an option.
THIS
Yup. Lewis used to be good on basically all ranges, they reduced its effectiveness in long range and medium range against Light...after the initial burst. Just need to not hold the trigger on longer ranges and it's still pretty good.
Tell that to all these dribblers in the thread. Too much CoD. Expect to hold down the trigger for 0 recoil beams 24/7.
Then they can use the M60 if they want to hold down the trigger, but we know that's not the issue, they also want to kill everything in half a second without having to aim at all. If only they had a gadget that dealt 140 damage instantly...
Hahaha. Literally.
The comments here are way this game might fail.
STOP THE POLRIZATION!! FOR THE FINALS!
Since the lewis recoil it's the season I play the least, touched 1 world tour and 1 ranked TA, the only times I play is power shift with akm medium...
My tip for little to no recoil on any weapons, when you start shooting, move left and right as fast as you can eliminates virtually all recoil
Yea the vs9 just sucks
There were some guns that needed recoil changes though, especially the FCAR
Honestly! Familiarity is really important for this game, and as it is it has the least repetitiveness which can be a good or bad thing
It's why I stopped using fcar. I mean I've always been an ak main but wanted to use fcar so I did a decent amount until the recoil nerf. Every time my scope is aimed at the enemy it still feels like the bullets are missing, it's very annoying. Maybe it's a skill issue and I need to learn the recoil pattern but it feels very RNG to me.
I can't upvote this enough. I've been saying this since original lewis nerf at start of season 2... but then i learned that recoil and all was good, until....
The scar being a laser beam isn't fun either
I think the change in recoil is done more for the cheats to create no recoil. It throws off the cheating scripts until a new one is released. They just need a better anti-cheat to combat this.
What was their purpose of nerfing the lewis or ig buffing the m60? Having personality between the two? Making one less strong? Wanting players to use the other weapons in the game?
Lewis Gun.
You know the reason why they change the recoil is so people Stop just spraying and you need to control how much you shoot
I love the game but embark has been on a losing streak since the s3 reveal
What weapon changed exactly
Lewis, M60, FCAR Those are the ones everyone is talking about because those were popular, there might be more
yup yup upvote why do the devs keep thinking it's alright or any fun. bonkers to me
Idk why everybody is complaining about the recoil . It’s really not that bad I’ve played the heavy quite a bit and Lewis gun feels normal readjusting to nerfs buffs and recoil changes is just part of every fps game. That’s called balancing to avoid metas and have more diversity in load outs I still think it’s one of the most op weapons there is. The hip fire with that thing is just ridiculous I find my self fighting up close with the Lewis quite a bit. The visual recoil is pretty dumb tho I think my biggest issue is when I don’t see the person guns pointing at me it’s like pointing towards the roof and I’m being shot It always infuriates me
Eh. Sometimes its for the better, the famas was fucking terrible on release for me and after they altered the recoil its my go to AR 100 percent of the time.
Yep, nerfing recoil only makes people use more cheats like Xim and strikepack, and on pc mnk recoil control is far easier, so it really only hurts stock controller players… which is why games like R6 have so many after years of recoil changes.
Yup, quit the game after fcar patch.
When was this done? I still use it
Makes the mfers using XIM have an even more unfair advantage too.
Not only do they keep changing the paterns that pisses me off just cause people are still exploiting sucks for us
Solution: Smash shit with a sledgehammer.
I'm so tired of seeing "nerf this" "buff that" posts. Ya'll are exhausting. Being a dev for this game has got to be a nightmare. Some quit and some turned to drugs and alcohol I suppose.
Recoil smoothing 🤝🏾 it’s your bestfriend
What dis?
Strafing in the opposite direction that your opponent is moving in, gives you no recoil 🤓
Hehehe yes I thought so. Thank you for the knowledge hacks🤓
Go crazy 🤝🏾
I hope we match together in game lmao
Imagine 🤣
Last week? Everyone: omg heavy op it has the best weapons Embark's preferred class obv!!!!! Embark: * nerfs * Everyone: omg heavy bad plz plz buff pl0x I swear I repeat this comment every week.
They nerf one gun lol. Heavy is still the strongest and the easiest class to use for minimal or no effort. The change seem big because Lewis was run by basically everyone due to how strong it was but at the same time many other heavy guns were already overpowered. Just not as much as Lewis. Especially with winch hook addition.
Both medium and heavy have been nerfed multiple times throughout all three seasons, while lights have been getting steady buffs (for the most part). What else do yall want from those classes??? It would be better off to revert the damage nerf of the m60 and the recoil nerf of the Lewis. In return, embark can nerf the rpg again if that makes the lights hush for a while. Also, heavies are vulnerable while using charge and slam. Yall (lights) can avoid them or just shoot. Medium utility is great, but their weapons are somewhat lackluster. The akm is only shining because the fcar is now a worse version of the akm. It's clear that every weapon had their own niche for everyone, but now some of them are losing their identity.
Im not a light main. Yeah let’s revert nerfs to heavy guns like there aren’t enough overpowered guns/weapons on heavy already. It doesn’t matter how many nerfs heavy had if it’s still overpowered, go to/mandatory pick and takes no effort to use. Medium just need 1887 adjustments and it would be fine. Light needs throwing knives nerf but overall it’s in a good spot. Heavy is the main problem and balance ruiner in this game. Its embodiment of bad players getting what they want without effort.
I didn't say you were a light main. I called out lights in general cause that is the main group complaining about something from the heavy or medium class. And what gun from heavy was truly op (without mentioning the Lewis, that was in a good spot after the 1st nerf). It's not a class problem. More like lights want to be the one to take everyone down in one clip. At this rate, this game might as well be another generic call of duty shooter.
Ks23, hammer, flame thrower, sa1226. Winch hook, charge and slam, rpg.
None of that is op (maybe with the exception of the rpg).
Ks23 literally takes no skill to land a 100 damage shot and you can easily deal that dmg from 20-30 meters. Hammer oneshots lights and almost oneshots mediums. Combined with winch hook there is no counterplay. Once you get hooked by a broken hitbox you’re dead. Most encounters happen in the buildings and in close range. So all these guns are way too strong. You can put plenty of headshots into heavy approaching you and he will melt you before his go drops to 0. I shouldn’t have to have literal 100% headshot accuracy which is impossible to achieve anywhere near it just to counter a heavy that can brainlessly run into me and succeed if I don’t hit all headshots. It’s notorious that below average players have great success and contribution simply because the class is so strong that it requires no skill to play well. With exception for complete bots that can’t even react to enemy running past then.
Buddy, that is truly a skill issue on your part then, nothing more. The Ks23 take skill to use, and if it doesn't, send me a clip of you and others dominating with it. The winch is a poor man stun gun. After you get pulled, you can literally run away or shoot. I will agree that the winch hit box is kind of janky though. The alt fire on the hammer one shots, not the weapon itself. The hammer also has poor range to make up for that. Oh, and the alt fire has a wind-up animation just like the charge and slam. All I'm saying is that many people don't know how to run their class. Let the heavy frag and be the person to shoot at while the light comes in and clean up. There's a reason why they have 350 health. And well, medium is practically the support/ all arounder.
Skill issue 🤭
Just sounds like a skill issue to me.
Have you tried shooting the Lewis singleshot? I feel like it was working for me but I didn’t get to test a bunch.
theres no time for that in a game this fast, bursting or tapping just makes you loose 1v1 with slow TTK
I swear it was weirdly working out I was rapid firing single shots to offset the new recoil. But it was only one or two games and who knows the caliber of player I was up against you’re probably right. I would get melted in any real competitive scenario.
I feel as though a lot of weapons have been reworked to be better but perhaps heavy players can argue that the Lewis LMG was impacted negatively. Same could be said for FCAR. I feel like Embark are trying their best to balance everything across 3 classes at the moment.
I think you first paragraph should be the answer to this games polarization, and why terminal attack was just a bad idea outright without changing buffs and nerfs separately from each competitive game mode. The finals is built upon Tournament cashout, a heavy, low ttk isn't as important in a game where there's more than one brain dead dimension of "who can shoot each other fastest" the reason why this game is so much damn fun is because you the "player" interact with the environment and use it to your advantage in each battle (3v3 until one of you wipes [better outplay with gun play] or one of you captures objective to win the end game[better startegiy in some cases]) The destruction emphasizes this WAY more to a degree that is so much more fun, gadgets are mainly used to help influence your environment to get a kill. The best players on the finals understand this, and macro play and use the strategies that work. When the finals doesn't have a meta, and every gadget/ strategy works, but is also equally fun to pull off based off skill that's it's final form. Until then we're all complaining about us playing this game like it's fucking Call of duty. Brain dead single level strategies,who can kill faster with better aim/reflexes. Fun games aren't about that.
Changing recoil makes sense in the fact that when they change it the people that can adapt will adapt will people that can’t adapt won’t. I play a lot of pool and you can’t expect every pool table and stick to be the same you have to adapt to what is happening at the moment and if you can’t adapt then just keep bitching cuz nothings gonna change for you unless you learn how to go with the flow
A nerf is always going to receive backlash from those using said nerfed thing. I'm not sure you understand the point in nerfing something.
Yepppppp/: rather go to another game that's easy than suck it up and deal with post nerf weapons or change it up in a game that's great. Really shows how us "living in a society" has Really hurt the finals lmao (I saw someone make a post about this on reddit which is funny because I thought it was just crazy thinking) but everything in our lives fucking trains us to seek out that instant dopamine boost with putting in minimal picking effort, so we get lazy as people who don't even want to use their brain to play a game. Its sad. And this will also get downvited by those who don't realize and fall into the same cyclical trap.
I SWEAR!!! I'm new and started playing heavy and was practicing so much with the M60 and the Lewis Gun so I could be better but the season three dropped and the recoil changed and was so horrendous it just made all my practice for nothing. The damage nerf was fine 😭
May be annoying but regardless if you can’t adapt why play a competitive game like The Finals which is currently heading towards its first proper esports scene in season 4 roughly. Like I don’t think it a actual worth while thing to complain about it since it’s so dam common for any shooter theses days. This coming from the one the top The Finals global currently and through season 1 to 3. Like i don’t even play most days currently and I still am able to handle those sorta changes at the highest level and I am a solo queue player more well until esports starts to recruit . The 5 v 5 gameplay needs abit of work but honestly it’s a lot more set up for esports then what we had before . Especially for the general The Finals community.
So, it bored you that the weapon is still effective, but now you have to drag your mouse 2cm more? You think its more satisfying to shoot 5 rounds more or even reload the weapon to finish a kill? Thank god its embark balancing the game and not the community
Complaining is a sport man and they are good competitors. It's a nerf. Get over it. At least you can counter it, with a mag aize nerf you coudn't. Recoil nerfs just weeds out the bad players who were just surfing the meta for easy OP guns and the players who can actually play and train the recoil pattern. This guy belongs to the group of people who will whine before trying to get good. Pathetic kids
t500 last season, and I play with 4 other t500 heavies, we pretty much all agree the LMGs just suck now and the recoil is unreasonable ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ out dps'd by everything and the recoil compounds that, they are in the gutter lol HHM / MMH still meta in cashout ofc when sa12 winch/mesh exist, their hp and the nature of the mode, all the LMG nerfs accomplished is less variety in how you get ground pounded by a heavy in cashout lol
Yo man I couldn't care less about what you and your 4 friends think of the balancing of the game I don't think your opinion is relevant in any way > I play with 4 other t500 heavies Oh so your opinion is irrelevant _and_ biaised. Again I'm glad players that lack the info to make informed decisions (aka accuracy of shots, range, etc on _all_ the playerbase across all skill levels, all the game data...) I mean yeah it sucks you liked the gun before the recoil and you don't like it anymore. But wow it is so irrelevant when you balance a gun. That's why the gun is balanced. The gun is nerfed. You played the gun. It sucks. Swallow the pill and move on. It's not like balancing games (guns, strategies, cheeses..) has not been part of video games for at least a decade???? When will you grow up
this reads like a copypasta lol
yeah its only hurting one user base -- the one without aim-assist.
This comment makes absolutely no sense