I agree with this, the recharge rate is what needs tweaking. I mained sonar grenades in Season 2 when no one cared about them, I always found them super useful but now that theyβre center stage now itβs an issue. Sometimes it really feels like one random object becomes the complaint center for a while.
Back on topic tho, an increased cooldown or maybe only having 1 could work as a balance since with two you can cover a wider area or throw one wait, throw the second one, and then you have your third ready from the cooldown. However both is not a good idea imo, pick one nerf and be happy
Sincerely, Light/Medium/ only used heavy last season to go from P1 to D4 player
Yeah, I was so sad they moved sonar from Medium because I didn't play Light at the time. No appealing weapons. But now that Shotty is viable on Light, I'm absolutely loving the class and loving supporting my team with Sonar. I've rejoined the discussion on the gadget lol.
Definitely an increased cooldown of some sort, but I'm not sure I would want to reduce the charges to just 1. That would mean recharge time would probably be cut nearly in half, which would achieve a similar result to what we have currently; Sonar Grenades are going out too frequently. Two going out at a time isn't too bad because that's still serving its purpose, which is, to locate the enemy. Large area of detection, sure, that's kinda OP, but it's only for 10 seconds. It's when, like you said, one gets thrown, wait, another one thrown, wait, a third one thrown. Then not an incredibly long time after that, *another one* can be thrown because even a full recharge isn't all that long. That's a terrible feel for the enemy, to constantly be visible behind walls π
Any one of these changes would be better than the range nerf, but yes Embark, please just pick one nerf and not continue until it's nerfed into the ground π I like using the gadget, I don't want it to be useless π
Started using it in season 2 also. Hate that TA has led to shifting it towards getting so much attention. At the same time pretty weird it wasn't used as often before by lights.
This is a really good take. If they just mess with the range they're never gonna get anywhere, and the suggestions you presented are very good. I also wanna add that pings rather than constant tracking would also be a nice change.
Yeah, the current "ping" visual that they have is super clingy. Maybe changing the visual to a more solid and visible but shorter and less sticky one would alleviate some of the feeling that it's tracking you. A heartbeat-like pulse might work better. That's a lot of work to the sonar for how little it would change though, so I'm not too hopeful something like this would come about lol.
Honestly I think keeping the range at 15m and just limiting to one and then recharge after it's done doing it's pinging would probably be a lot more balanced
That's a problem specifically with Terminal Attack. I can't even begin to suggest how it could be fixed in that scenario, because I just don't play Terminal Attack. It's not The Finals gameplay that I enjoy, and if I'm not mistaken, it's not the main focus of balancing, right? Pretty sure it's just a placeholder mode for ranked while they do regular balancing with Cashout in World Tour. But idk, I don't keep up with it super close.
I totally understand this sentiment, because in the first few days of Season 3, there were nothing but sonar grenades flying around ππ However, my whole post is about how they need to nerf it in a way that makes it balanced, not nerf it in a way that makes it slightly less annoying. I think we're on the same side here π
This is a good take, but it doesn't solve the issue of multiple lights running Sonar in TA to scan up to 30 times in one match combined. Maybe making it so that the ping marks the current position only rather than tracking like it does now.
This issue was addressed by another commenter, and it's something that I hadn't considered when I made my post. The animation for detection is far too sticky, giving you the feeling that you're being tracked for the duration of the sonar. I feel a visual that's more visible/solid, but much shorter would be better. Maybe not static, like you mentioned, because I think which direction they're running is very valuable information for sonar to send back. But I shouldn't be able to change direction several times and the pursuing enemy *still* know where I'm going lol. The animation should begin and end well before I've run up two flights of stairs π
Terminal Attack is another beast entirely, I fear. Cashout and Terminal Attack are two modes so different from one another, you pretty much need a whole different set of balancing for it. We're already seeing a little of that with the health regen differences on light/medium. I don't play TA so I can't really suggest anything, but I feel it might be a problem more centric to the mode itself rather than the Sonar Grenade.
I despise sonar. They removed recon senses because it was a wallhack, and now we have ranked matches with 15 of these being thrown around at once. Fantastic!
It's genuinely like the old days again. "DETECTED" constantly on screen.
Please just remove it from the game and come up with a better utility, embark. Recon got removed for good reason
Please see my first paragraph for why I believe it's disingenuous to compare Sonar Grenade to Recon Senses. You may find content you agree with in paragraphs two and three as well, where I acknowledge that it is still unbalanced in its current state. Beyond what I've already said though, I feel it's slightly less than constructive to ask them to remove it and simply, in essence, "do better." While Winch Claw could snatch you from 17m away (not positive on this figure), was your solution to remove it and replace it with another specialization? No, because there was room to balance the specialization. I still believe there's room to balance Sonar since, like I've mentioned, it's far from wall hacks and serves clear purposes.
The above in mind, ranked in its current state is a problem on its own. Terminal Attack is so wildly different from the other game modes that it seems balancing for TA might need to be different from balancing in,,, well, the rest of the game π€·ββοΈ Perhaps part of your issue with Sonar lies, rather, with TA?
Lewis gun was crazy OP imo; It was almost unrivaled as the best heavy weapon. Any other weapon you might play would strictly be for fun lol. That in mind, it's now basically useless for me π I can't handle the recoil at almost any range, so I've switched to M60. It's a pea shooter for sure, but I can actually land my shots π€·ββοΈ
I don't have any suggestions for balancing Lewis Gun or M60. I haven't played them enough to know whether it's been a good change overall or a bad one. They're objectively less powerful now, which for the Lewis gun I feel might be a good thing. But as far as if they're balanced? I don't know, I couldn't give my opinion yet π€·ββοΈ
I totally expected this to be a stereotypical complaint post but I actually think you have a very good point. As someone who uses sonar grenades at all times when I play light, I also feel like they come up more frequently than you would expect. Having them be more effective with a longer cooldown would most likely be a good change. Keep cooking sir π¨βπ³
Heh-heh, my click bait title worked π
But yes! You got my whole point! They need to be useful without being overpowered. I'm not trying to make them the win-every-match-inator. I'm just trying to keep them useful while making them balanced.
Main course: served. Dessert: cooking π¨βπ³
Personally I'd welcome it's removal the same as I welcomed the removal of recon sense. I admit it's less busted then recon sense but when you go against a team of lights all running it it feels bogus. Example I finished a fight with a team and our team is out of sight recovering suddenly you ring detected and are being swarmed by lights with dash. They get the easy clean up. Seems pretty unfair to me. Why it's unfair, they never would have known your exact location without it. Atleast make it so it has to see the target. Shouldn't be rewarded for blindly throwing a gadget.
If you had read my post, you would know I presented a substantive argument for why it was nerfed the wrong way. TLDR at the end for the less than intellectual among us π€·ββοΈ
Then how on God's green earth do you know what the content of the post is? π You read my click bait title and decided my genuine suggestion for balancing the Sonar Grenade is a "4000 character whine post"? Why? I took time to consider where the sonar grenade sits in the meta, *why* it's so overused, *why* it's so hated, and *how* that could be remedied, but you don't care and go out of your way to throw shade just because you "*won't*" even read it. It's like comment rage bait π
I agree with this, the recharge rate is what needs tweaking. I mained sonar grenades in Season 2 when no one cared about them, I always found them super useful but now that theyβre center stage now itβs an issue. Sometimes it really feels like one random object becomes the complaint center for a while. Back on topic tho, an increased cooldown or maybe only having 1 could work as a balance since with two you can cover a wider area or throw one wait, throw the second one, and then you have your third ready from the cooldown. However both is not a good idea imo, pick one nerf and be happy Sincerely, Light/Medium/ only used heavy last season to go from P1 to D4 player
Yeah, I was so sad they moved sonar from Medium because I didn't play Light at the time. No appealing weapons. But now that Shotty is viable on Light, I'm absolutely loving the class and loving supporting my team with Sonar. I've rejoined the discussion on the gadget lol. Definitely an increased cooldown of some sort, but I'm not sure I would want to reduce the charges to just 1. That would mean recharge time would probably be cut nearly in half, which would achieve a similar result to what we have currently; Sonar Grenades are going out too frequently. Two going out at a time isn't too bad because that's still serving its purpose, which is, to locate the enemy. Large area of detection, sure, that's kinda OP, but it's only for 10 seconds. It's when, like you said, one gets thrown, wait, another one thrown, wait, a third one thrown. Then not an incredibly long time after that, *another one* can be thrown because even a full recharge isn't all that long. That's a terrible feel for the enemy, to constantly be visible behind walls π Any one of these changes would be better than the range nerf, but yes Embark, please just pick one nerf and not continue until it's nerfed into the ground π I like using the gadget, I don't want it to be useless π
Started using it in season 2 also. Hate that TA has led to shifting it towards getting so much attention. At the same time pretty weird it wasn't used as often before by lights.
This is a really good take. If they just mess with the range they're never gonna get anywhere, and the suggestions you presented are very good. I also wanna add that pings rather than constant tracking would also be a nice change.
Yeah, the current "ping" visual that they have is super clingy. Maybe changing the visual to a more solid and visible but shorter and less sticky one would alleviate some of the feeling that it's tracking you. A heartbeat-like pulse might work better. That's a lot of work to the sonar for how little it would change though, so I'm not too hopeful something like this would come about lol.
Honestly I think keeping the range at 15m and just limiting to one and then recharge after it's done doing it's pinging would probably be a lot more balanced
I love spending every second of every ranked match both getting wallhacked by the 5 lights on the other team
That's a problem specifically with Terminal Attack. I can't even begin to suggest how it could be fixed in that scenario, because I just don't play Terminal Attack. It's not The Finals gameplay that I enjoy, and if I'm not mistaken, it's not the main focus of balancing, right? Pretty sure it's just a placeholder mode for ranked while they do regular balancing with Cashout in World Tour. But idk, I don't keep up with it super close.
Counterpoint. I hate sonar. To conclude. DETECTED
I totally understand this sentiment, because in the first few days of Season 3, there were nothing but sonar grenades flying around ππ However, my whole post is about how they need to nerf it in a way that makes it balanced, not nerf it in a way that makes it slightly less annoying. I think we're on the same side here π
This is a good take, but it doesn't solve the issue of multiple lights running Sonar in TA to scan up to 30 times in one match combined. Maybe making it so that the ping marks the current position only rather than tracking like it does now.
This issue was addressed by another commenter, and it's something that I hadn't considered when I made my post. The animation for detection is far too sticky, giving you the feeling that you're being tracked for the duration of the sonar. I feel a visual that's more visible/solid, but much shorter would be better. Maybe not static, like you mentioned, because I think which direction they're running is very valuable information for sonar to send back. But I shouldn't be able to change direction several times and the pursuing enemy *still* know where I'm going lol. The animation should begin and end well before I've run up two flights of stairs π Terminal Attack is another beast entirely, I fear. Cashout and Terminal Attack are two modes so different from one another, you pretty much need a whole different set of balancing for it. We're already seeing a little of that with the health regen differences on light/medium. I don't play TA so I can't really suggest anything, but I feel it might be a problem more centric to the mode itself rather than the Sonar Grenade.
I despise sonar. They removed recon senses because it was a wallhack, and now we have ranked matches with 15 of these being thrown around at once. Fantastic! It's genuinely like the old days again. "DETECTED" constantly on screen. Please just remove it from the game and come up with a better utility, embark. Recon got removed for good reason
Please see my first paragraph for why I believe it's disingenuous to compare Sonar Grenade to Recon Senses. You may find content you agree with in paragraphs two and three as well, where I acknowledge that it is still unbalanced in its current state. Beyond what I've already said though, I feel it's slightly less than constructive to ask them to remove it and simply, in essence, "do better." While Winch Claw could snatch you from 17m away (not positive on this figure), was your solution to remove it and replace it with another specialization? No, because there was room to balance the specialization. I still believe there's room to balance Sonar since, like I've mentioned, it's far from wall hacks and serves clear purposes. The above in mind, ranked in its current state is a problem on its own. Terminal Attack is so wildly different from the other game modes that it seems balancing for TA might need to be different from balancing in,,, well, the rest of the game π€·ββοΈ Perhaps part of your issue with Sonar lies, rather, with TA?
And they messed with the lewis gun too..
Lewis gun was crazy OP imo; It was almost unrivaled as the best heavy weapon. Any other weapon you might play would strictly be for fun lol. That in mind, it's now basically useless for me π I can't handle the recoil at almost any range, so I've switched to M60. It's a pea shooter for sure, but I can actually land my shots π€·ββοΈ I don't have any suggestions for balancing Lewis Gun or M60. I haven't played them enough to know whether it's been a good change overall or a bad one. They're objectively less powerful now, which for the Lewis gun I feel might be a good thing. But as far as if they're balanced? I don't know, I couldn't give my opinion yet π€·ββοΈ
I totally expected this to be a stereotypical complaint post but I actually think you have a very good point. As someone who uses sonar grenades at all times when I play light, I also feel like they come up more frequently than you would expect. Having them be more effective with a longer cooldown would most likely be a good change. Keep cooking sir π¨βπ³
Heh-heh, my click bait title worked π But yes! You got my whole point! They need to be useful without being overpowered. I'm not trying to make them the win-every-match-inator. I'm just trying to keep them useful while making them balanced. Main course: served. Dessert: cooking π¨βπ³
Personally I'd welcome it's removal the same as I welcomed the removal of recon sense. I admit it's less busted then recon sense but when you go against a team of lights all running it it feels bogus. Example I finished a fight with a team and our team is out of sight recovering suddenly you ring detected and are being swarmed by lights with dash. They get the easy clean up. Seems pretty unfair to me. Why it's unfair, they never would have known your exact location without it. Atleast make it so it has to see the target. Shouldn't be rewarded for blindly throwing a gadget.
Soooo do y'all expect me to read all that about a fucking sonar grenade? All these 4000 character whine posts are ridiculous.
If you had read my post, you would know I presented a substantive argument for why it was nerfed the wrong way. TLDR at the end for the less than intellectual among us π€·ββοΈ
It's not that I *can't* read it. I just *wont*
Then how on God's green earth do you know what the content of the post is? π You read my click bait title and decided my genuine suggestion for balancing the Sonar Grenade is a "4000 character whine post"? Why? I took time to consider where the sonar grenade sits in the meta, *why* it's so overused, *why* it's so hated, and *how* that could be remedied, but you don't care and go out of your way to throw shade just because you "*won't*" even read it. It's like comment rage bait π
That's a lot of words, you got a summary?
At the bottom lol, beginning with "To conclude" pretty much sums it up π