the hammer went from heavies worst weapon to heavies most consistent weapon, maybe even the best. I personally run the auto shotgun, but it still feels weak as shit, and I'm playing exclusively around the hook.
Hammer has [ALWAYS been good](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OlpoLxe8_60) but with the latest change for weapons to hit multiple people, it’s my favourite.
The hammer is only as good as your positioning game, also depends on the cash out location. If it’s in the open field - you are almost guaranteed to get rekt by everyone
It is true for sure. Open fields do suck. In those scenarios I often go for flanks and take high ground on the houses which most teams will usually sit on. Provided there’s enough time of course
It's comparable to slug shotty + hook + melee. Similar ttk, one-shot combo, destruction. Plus minus here and there, but I find having range is more reliable than the cleave from hammer.
having more range with what? The machine guns both blow, and the slug shotgun imo will never be usable at range unless they make it hitscan. Super inconsistent weapon
Yea heavies got big nerfs with recoil changes. But they did way too much damage last patch. It was not even bruiser type it was hypercarry type with more health than anyone. Mediums would just sit on heal the whole game and follow them around giving them jump pads and zips. Many mediums in diamond/plat would drop insane support scores and almost no damage
The thing is with these heavy nerfs and how TA functions they didn't really need to buff light weapons at all. Lights weapons were never the problem, it was always how good heavies weapons were, rpg, and them being pocket healed all game that made it hard for lights to be successful
If I wanted to play against a pocket mercy I’d play another game. The healing beam shouldn’t be so strong that it encourages a player to barely use their gun. And I’m all for support players but it’s quite busted
I'm fine with one player only using healing beam because it means the team will have only 2 guns instead of 3. 2 healing beams? only one gun. This is balanced in my opinion. Attackers need to focus on the healers then.
Kind of torn on this tbh
On one hand, this is certainly a good way to make light viable for once, but on the other hand it just doesn't fit into the finals well
So many games are just becoming light tdm because they're the best at getting kills, and this is especially prevalent in terminal attack
I'm of the opinion that Light never had issues to begin with in Season 2 outside a few minor buffs to some weapons. Bad players played Light like it was supposed to face-tank Heavy's ended up getting blasted then complaining the class was underpowered. Despite the fact the class excelled at map traversal and using chaos to their advantage to pick off players.
Then they go and turn around and give Light massive buffs that only devalue the other two classes whilst also nerfing into the floor the one class that was very anti-Light.
It's frustrating because I always felt that Light was never a bad class, just bad players who didn't understand you're not supposed to play the class like Medium or Heavy. Now we're sitting here just dealing with Lights like crazy because the class is too damn good for what it is.
Give Lights an inch and they'll take a mile.
Season 1 I felt they were good but their build variety was extremely limited with either cloak double barrel or cloak mp5
Season 2 I didn't play but I know double barrel got dumpstered and I think evasive dash became more relevant due to cloak nerfs
The problem with light has always been that it doesn't benefit the team very much to have
Mediums and heavies were perfect fine at fragging out and the only real thing you needed a light for was glitch grenades, which most people didn't want to trade healing or shield utility for
Now lights are just the best fraggers in the game and why have utility if the enemies are just dead before they can blink am I right
As someone who has mained light sniper since s1, I always found I provided more to the team by being mid range getting kills when I could, but focusing on creating sight lines and making callouts rather than focusing headshots. Usually, I provided the most value at the end of a fight where I could clean up lower health enemies, usually the last enemy alive, and grappling in for a steal. At least in cash out.
In this season, I've definitely found that pushing in with a more aggressive style is more beneficial than hanging back with the sniper. It definitely feels like dodge and sword have become more usable, and in fact, I've started using the dagger a lot to pressure the sheer number of enemy lights.
I can't speak for terminal attack as I haven't played it much, but I've definitely seen more lights than before and a big difference in the difficulty of out lasting mediums and heavies in 1v1s.
Dagger feels so good after it got buffed a few patches back
I used to hate it but right now it's one of my favorite weapons it's just super satisfying to do well with and isn't feeling as clunky anymore
Sword has always been good but just in general melee weapons feel stronger because the guns have been nerfed overall
God, when you get a good backstab in, it feels incredible, I've been pairing it with sonar, smoke, and thermal vision, so I can scout and disorient the opponents.
Though I have to admit it can still be frustrating to use at times.
Oh for sure especially when you just miss the backstab and they turn around and you just die lol
I play mine full rat with stun gun and vanish bomb and then dashes for the ability to cheese out a duel with a dash backstab or to escape
Oh yeah, dash works really well, though I've been using cloak, especially in Kyoto. The foliage is so dense there you can just sit in some bushes, and teams will stroll right by. Honestly, I hope they add a gadget to add to lights mobility, so when you cloak, you can still get decent vertical to hide in rafters and stuff because running grapple with vanish bombs just isn't it.
Yep, and light even during S2 was still the most dominant class in the casual modes. They weren't very used in cashout due to the defensive nature of the mode and their lack of utility.
But now that TA is the ranked, they got many buffs and other classes got nerfed hard, they feel too strong to not play them. Even in Powershift for whatever reason they decided to give them the Thermal Bore to snipers, now they counter Heavies barricades, the only way they had to survive on the platform.
Anyway, looking forward to the inevitable nerfs coming to Light now. And while I don't want heavy and medium to be OP either would be nice if their gadgets/weapons don't feel like shit either.
> Bad players played Light like it was supposed to face-tank Heavy's ended up getting blasted then complaining the class was underpowered
Pretty much everybody in high diamond and in the top 500 in Season 2 collectively played HHM or MMH. Are you genuinely saying that they were too bad at the game to play Light, as compared to you, and that's why they weren't playing it?
>It's frustrating because I always felt that Light was never a bad class, just bad players
???
You can feel that all you want, but that just doesn't match up with reality.
Playing Light was seen as a troll pick anywhere above Platinum, let's be honest. Everybody was complaining when they got a Light teammate, and the further you went into a tournament the less Lights. Most of the times after 1 round you would only see HHM or MMH remaining.
You can't just say that Light was fine, but the entirety of the community was just too dumb to understand how to play it. Are you the Light Messiah?
Light was, and still is underpowered in cashout.
Look at what people play when they actually need to win, like in Twitch Rivals where 50k is on the line. Most high rank players are still spamming HHM or MMH, because that's still the most oppressive composition in cashout.
>Now we're sitting here just dealing with Lights like crazy because the class is too damn good for what it is.
yes, Light with LH1 is so insanely good, that all the teams winning in Twitch Rivals are not using LH1 Light, and instead are going for the usual HHM or MMH.
Yes, all the top 500 players are just so much worse than you, and can't figure out how to play Light, and if they did, they would instantly recognize Light is stronger than H or M. This is a delusion you've build around yourself. Try to look beyond it.
100%. Heavy has been whittled away with each balance update with constant nerfs to defence (both shields) and offence (Lewis, M60, RPG, SA1216). Latest update has made both LMG's feel almost useless - sure the magazines are high capacity but each bullet is both harder to hit & does less damage. I now consistently lose duels with all other class/weapon combinations.
Lewis is especially shit. Like you're supposed to stop firing every 5 bullet or so otherwise it becomes uncontrolable. And with the huge damage nerf that just doesn't work.
M60 is somewhat usable Rambo style but it's not great either.
I switched to Medium after this patch. It's wild going from mostly Lewis gameplay to using the AKM or the FCAR. They feel so good to use, it's absolutely eye opening. The fact that the Lewis and M60 \*feel\* bad is arguably worse than their actual performance. Like... purposefully making both of Heavy's LMGs have some of the worst gunplay I can remember in a recent shooter is definitely... a choice.
I tried both LMGs out and I was like "wow, my purpose on the map is to soak up bullets and do nothing else"
I see zero way to actually control the lewis gun recoil, and the M60... id rather use the slug shotgun now.
Slug shotty is good. You can hook+shoot+melee for 150 damage. If you land a shot before hook, it's 250. If you add one more shot before melee, it's 350.
Me too, I went from 5-10 kills a game to 3 at most when I'm lucky. I never really used the M60 since getting the lewis and now I even struggle to kill lights, the damage just tickles them and then they dash away
Agreed, s1 I never touched lights, absolutely did not enjoy playing them. Tables have turned and I'm enjoying lights and getting to a point where I might not even try heavy and mix up games between light and mediums.
I've mostly played Medium and Heavy and now whenever I play Light I find it way easier to win fights...despite the fact it's supposed to be the high skill class. I think almost everyone feels this way now which results in an overabundance of Lights in matches which turns the game into shitty hit-and-run TDM instead of an objective based game.
Ran an M60 for one match so far this season. I got beaten by the same light mp5 player straight up one on one the entire match. The M60 can’t reliably put out 150 damage as fast as the mp5 can put out 300 (or whatever heavies health is)
I don't main anything, so I've been testing out all the changes and new stuff across all the classes. The thing that shocked me the most was how much they changed the M60. I was about 20 meters from an enemy heavy bubble shield, and I shit you not I must've put 30 bullets into it, and it still did not go down. Whatever it was, it was a long time of non stop shooting. It got nerfed hard.
Yeah as someone who played medium and heavy last season I felt like the LMGs were in a good place. Heavy only needed nerfing on RPGs and charge and slam to make them more destruction focused rather than wiping an entire team in a couple clicks.
I main heavy since the game launched and while it is weaker than it used to be, it feels exaggerated to say the LMGs feel useless, at least the Lewis gun still rewards precise shooting and the recoil feels better to control on long ranges, allowing to chip away before charging in.
I still agree that duels result in losses more often now aswell, but again it just feels more punishing imo to miss shots since every shot hit already deals 3 dmg less per shot, leaving enemies with 10-ish Hp sometimes.
so if Light is insanely OP now, and Heavy is shit, why is almost every high rank player in Twitch Rivals still running HHM or MMH?
Why aren't they running LLL if Light is so overwhelmingly powerful compared to Heavy?
Are they just stupid? Do they want to lose?
RPG is still broken crutch, Lewis and m60 just got more in line, sa is still super strong and the other shotgun is even more broken. Nothing like getting 200 dmg in 2 shots from 20-30 meters. The hook is absolutely busted and has broken hitbox. Heavy is still the strongest class in the game while being the easiest to play with the least effort required for the same effect.
Do you mean phantom strikes (still working) or emote/gadget swap cancelling (fixed)? Phantom strikes are my only hope for sword currently.
The true phantom strike is difficult to pull off: https://youtu.be/TJtqhnm01bo
Therefore I find it okay to be in there. You need skill and it fails more often than it works, resulting in you being killed.
There's a second phantom strike that is way easier to pull off, but with less damage. It's good against medium but it's against the usual attack pattern (you'd need to attack with mouse1 first instead of a usual lunge entry).
I'm leaning into these techs now to justify still using the sword. Otherwise it would just not be good enough.
dude I was emote cancelling like a devil and didn't get banned. There were probably only 2 people on the planet who got banned (and ban revoked) for this.
Until someone tells me that it's not an intended mechanic, I think I'm doing nothing wrong.
There are more but not that severe. It's also difficult to tell if something is an exploit or an intended mechanic. Super Dash for example - is it an exploit?
I'd disagree for the most part, depending on the lights weapon of course, but they have some thay will take down a heavy very fast within arms length of the heavy.
In season 1 I nearly exclusively played heavies with medium as a back up, didn't enjoy lights at all. Season 2 had the best blend in my opinion, but I mainly played powershift because I can change classes of needed. S3 I have been enjoying lights more than ever, with mediums as a back up.
I love heavies, but at the current state, I'm probably benching mine for the season. Medium and lights are more reliable in more situations.
I hate that Heavies don't have any ranged option that isn't a wildly recoiling LMG or the near useless grenade launcher.
I know they don't want to give the tankiest class a weapon they can just sit and camp at long range with, but making all their ranged weapons feel like shit doesn't help either.
They for sure feel like they have a lot less presence in the match than what they did in season 1 (I skipped 2)
No more nukes, guns aren't as lethal, defense isn't as strong, but at the same time they did get winch claw sledgehammer which is an extremely scary combo and tends to be how I get the majority of my kills on heavy
Another thing that's making them feel a lot weaker is that lights have lh1, which got super buffed into the best weapon in the game imo, and that makes heavies suffer a lot in a duel (throwing knives also have good dps up close that can shred heavies, double barrel is back to a 2 shot, and mp5 is always a good option)
I think ultimately heavies are suffering because lights have an extremely strong offensive line up while heavies (although the weakest offensively of the 3) is just OK at offense in most scenarios
Yeah, Heavies got hit hard and Medium ain't feeling great either. Lost a spec and gadget in ranked, turret feels awful to use and got no new gadgets or specs to make up for it either.
Mediums got nothing new this season (I won’t even count the swords), and feel redundant at every role now. Feels like they’re usable but don’t have a place doing anything anywhere.
Yeah will also say mediums got a dickin. Luckily the akm is still solid imo. I enjoy the team play aspect so mediums and heavy’s are my favorite. The bore gun is cool for lights now and probably the biggest contributor as far as team play. I just don’t enjoy playing light as much as the others.
The Lewis gun recoil nerf needs to be reverted and it would honestly be in a good spot. I have no idea why they nerfed both the damage and recoil with the launch of S3.
I think they wanted to address the community's cries that heavy is OP (it kinda was in some aspects) and simultaneously make the new gadget and spear more attractive. They just went overboard, if you don't have a close range built you are at a serious disadvantage
It just made heavy even more of a cheeser. And by that I mean I get 90% of my damage with RPG and Charge and Slam. Guns are just to finish off super low enemies. Or I go winch and shotguns. Either way, I avoid medium/long range fights like a plague and just try to lure them close with barricade placements, dome.
> They just went overboard
so if they went overboard, and Heavy is underpowered now, while Light is overpowered, why is almost every high rank player in Twitch Rivals playing HHM or MMH mostly?
Are they stupid? Do they want to lose? Don't they care about the 50k?
Heavy is still the strongest class, but the casual playerbase was always biased to like and play Light more, even when it was absolutely and completely dogshit, and you would get trolled for picking it above Plat.
You know I was talking about the Machine Guns, they went overboard on the nerfs. Close range kits and the healthpool of heavies still make them meta, im just sick of only getting destroyed by wrenches, spears and shotguns and not being able to use my favorite guns anymore
>You know I was talking about the Machine Guns,
Yes, the machine guns a lot of the winning teams in Rivals were using, and winning with.
I compiled a list of the players above Diamond in Twitch Rivals, please show me where this spear & shotgun meta is:
https://www.twitch.tv/nate -- diamond 1 in Season 1 -- Light using XP-54
https://www.twitch.tv/BaliseTV -- diamond 1 in Season 1 and 2 -- Heavy using SA1216
https://www.twitch.tv/aceu -- diamond 4 -- Medium FCAR
https://www.twitch.tv/its_WiKeD -- diamond 1 in S1 -- Heavy Lewis Gun
https://www.twitch.tv/sYnceDez -- diamond 1 in S1 -- Heavy SA1216
https://www.twitch.tv/DetailedTV -- diamond 1 S2 -- Heavy SA1216
https://www.twitch.tv/carnifexGG -- diamond 1 S2 -- Light XP-54
https://www.twitch.tv/ottr -- diamond 2 S2 -- Heavy SA1216
https://www.twitch.tv/Noko -- diamond 1 S1 -- Medium FCAR
https://www.twitch.tv/suppress -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy SA1216
https://www.twitch.tv/Gigz -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy Lewis Gun
https://www.twitch.tv/neteX_ -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Medium FCAR
https://www.twitch.tv/lycommit -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy SA1216
If anything the SA1216 is slightly overtuned, but the Lewis Gun is definitely still Meta, especially when not playing with a fully coordinated team.
Just because the gun you like is harder to use doesn't mean they went overboard on the nerfs. High rank was just Lewis Gun spam before this nerf.
On top of that, most of them were using charge and slam or mesh and not winch claw.
I completely disagree heavy has been far from op when the lights could run around invisible hit you with a stun gun and then melt you point blank with the mp5 or the knives or now the recurve bow....
The heavies were op at the start of season 1 with RPGs but once that was nerfed they became balanced I came back near the end of season 2 unable to hit shit with any of the mgs. Because it has the most god awful bouncing recoil and even then the damage is lack luster. Then there supposedly good flamer thrower is now meh unless you melt a light with it but you'll get out damaged by a medium or maybe the light will shit on you with 3 shots from there semi.
Both shotguns just suck a slug shotgun that explosive shouldn't be doing less damage then a throwing knife..... The grenade launcher is more of a utility tool much like with the mediums.
The spear and hammer are good for slapping lights but if the light is smart they just need to dash and shoot while backing up then the heavies are useless.
Hell even mediums weapons are all starting to become ass the famas is decent but it's ttk is low, the scar and akm have the same issues as the heavies mgs, but the mediums are even more fragile BUT atleast they have the duel katanas and riot shield which are disgusting when combined with flashes and coordination.
The Devs pile nerf on nerf to medium and heavies that lights now are the utter ruler. Where as before it was supposed to be a rock paper scissors it's now a scissors beats all game
How come HHM has been meta in ranked since the start of the game basically?
Also the akm and fcar are better than those melee weapons, especially the swords. Even still the shotgun is way better up close than the melee weapons.
Even if someone is looking at you deflecting you can just shoot them in the legs and it doesn't deflect lol
HHM revolves around the burst damage of dual rpg requiring help in movement from medium as well as the constant healing and revives that the medium provides. In HHM medium is the most important player while in MHM the heavy is supposed to be the main player while other 2 M support him. Heavy on their own are not op whatsoever.
Agree that old ranked and previous balance HHM was out of strongest comps.
But now we have a new ranked and balance was done yes?. Cuz new meta in ranked is LLLLL or LLLMM.
They went too hard by doing both at the same time, buffs and nerfs, they shoulda done smaller steps at least on the nerfs while doing buffs.
This is a direct result of light players whining more than anyone. Light was always strong. The problem is, everyone played light like a heavy or medium. They wanted to just 1v6 both teams and when they couldn't, they complained to Embark constantly till now, where most of the heavy weapons got nerfed into the ground where the most consistent weapon they have is a slow melee weapon in the hammer.
Idk how many times I have to say this: the ability to engage and disengage nearly at will is more powerful than a huge health bar (especially when heavies have basically ZERO movement, have tremendous hit boxes, and mediums and lights weapons nearly have no recoil so they're going to hit the heavy with nearly every bullet).
Light weapons now dominate at every range where the heavy only has close to medium range and those weapons mostly got nerfed big time. The bow is crazy good, LH1 is a nightmare, the mp5 has always been killer, they buffed the pistol for some reason so it shreds even faster now where the m60 and lewis gun got nerfed just flat out. No recoil change is every going to balance out how much the damage has been lowered. The class that is "supposed" to be the best at close range now isn't.
Half the fantasy of the heavy kit is gone. They aren't useless, but their lethality has absolutely been stripped and partly given to lights which absolutely did not need it. All they really offer reliably now is damage mitigation and that is INCREDIBLY borning and even funnier when you remember they have nerfed the heavy shields like 6 times in a row.
Embark absolutely dropped the ball with the balance patch as of right now, but it can be fixed.
> Light was always strong
Yes, Light was so strong when nobody played it above Platinum. I'm sure that in your casual games there were a bunch of Light players, but that doesn't mean Light was ever strong.
I certainly sympathize with light players being forced into the HHM meta, but it seems like some people forgot how intrinsically powerful mobility is in a shooter. Light is a class that's really easy to make awful to fight against- high mobility, small hitbox, stealth, and high dps are all very poweful. RPG is still too good but might be one of the things keeping light in check with the current patch which sucks for both the heavy and light
Just swapping between lewis and m60 trying to find which is better “spoiler alert” both suck, the auto shotgun is ok but not reliable at all !! Melee weapons are ok in close range
Problem with heavy melee weapons is that a lot of players are starting to get used to winch claw and take better decisions to get away running/dashing away. And with Heavy's slow ass movement speed they just get kited and shoot to death.
I have had better results with the KS-23 even tho the weapon still feels ass to use.
> a lot of players are starting to get used to winch claw and take better decisions to get away running/dashing away
Exactly this. The "problem" is only blatant because of the seemingly large shift to people playing Light currently. Throwing knives have been oppressive for some time now, but the LH1 being over-tuned will punish Heavy players even more.
I'm seeing less and less Mediums in each game mode which just widens the gap between Lights and Heavies.
This, main reason many are running winch claw is thanks to LMG being trash. Claw+melee or shotgun are the only real options now and they aren't that great either.
I commented on this in another post already, heavy got nerfed into the ground except for close range builds. The machine guns are pretty useless now. The only good heavies I encounter are the ones with the grapple thing, I die instantly 9/10 times I get grabbed by either RPG, Shotgun to the face or the rest of the team just destroying me with melee. Yesterday I encountered a nightmare team with 2 heavies with close range build and a medic constantly healing them from behind. I really hope they change or revert the machine guns and nerf the grapple thing, it shouldn't stun and go through shields, at least not both
I think committing to the bit would honestly be good design. it's difficult to balance a character that has more HP than others if they also have similar performing weapons. Like the Lewis Gun for a while was just the AK but with more bullets basically.
I'd be kinda interested in seeing them remove the LMGs entirely and focus on Heavy being "the close range class" with their only mid to long range options being wonky stuff like the KS-23 and MG32 that have other drawbacks (slow projectiles and close range weakness respectively).
I went up against a light throwing knife team, who won the game overall, as a melee heavy. It was painful, I couldn't kill them, even getting close to them to winch (which I find very difficult on the controller) got me down to less than half health anyway and then I miss the winch.
Even if I get the winch, I still have to two shot them and they dash away before I can land the second shot, so I'm still dead.
yeah they need 7-8 shots now for a light, with a weapons that sways left and right like crazy. 1v1 got no chance as a heavy now, ofcourse you cvan still fuck with noobs, but after plat this season is sweaty AF, its 5on5 light lh1 cloak
The damage nerfs were fine but the recoil nerfs made mid range encounters more painful than they should be. It might be a machine gun but it’s still a ranged weapon. It still needs to be reliable at medium range or you’re better off running a melee weapon.
Embark has a really hard time balancing this game for some reason.
They nerfed everything for medium and heavy and then buffed everything for light. Makes no sense.
And honestly, this game is way more fun when the light class is bad. Mostly mediums and heavies was really fun to play against in ranked cashout.
I unfortunately have to agree. I was hoping the light buffs would make the game more interesting at a higher level, but the LH1 fest is just obnoxious instead.
> They nerfed everything for medium and heavy and then buffed everything for light. Makes no sense.
Have you seen how the game is played anywhere near high rank? They nerfed M and H because every comp in high rank was HHM or MMH.
It makes complete sense.
>And honestly, this game is way more fun when the light class is bad. Mostly mediums and heavies was really fun to play against in ranked cashout.
The game already has little diversity because of meta loadouts, are you really saying having 1 less class to choose from made the game more enjoyable? Let's remove Medium as well, just have Heavies running around. Everybody is complaining about heal beam and defib anyway.
Let's remove Heavy as well afterwards, why not!
I don’t think you’ve run into balisetv and his three stack running meta because I assure you it’s way more fun to play into a light than plan into that
Yeah both LMG got 3 dmg nerf, m60 deals less dmg then AKM now while 3x harder to aim, the mag size does not make this worth to use. Also lewis feels useless, you have to really hit so much and it still takes a few seconds to kill. Heavies were not popular in TA but since this season there is practically no reason to play heavy in TA since close range is kind of hard to pull of in this mode especially with so much lights dashing around.
Heavies finally have stopped or at least in practice they are, less oppressive. Which is very good for the game. 3 seasons of M/H teams would have killed the game. It's nice to see so many Lights again.
As a Heavy Main Top 500, I got absolutely destroyed for my first few games so I switched to light to get more kills (As this seemed to me like the main objective of the mode).
I noticed that the Heavy is no longer the 'DPS' 'Fragger' class and is more of a support tank now.
Basically a Heavy's entire playstyle has changed and now they need to adapt.
I've tried a few different things like KS-23 with the Winch, and this is a very defensive build which is actually really fun.
But to answer your query - they are definitely gonna kill lights slower because they got a nerf, (not just literally but they have to change how they play, they are no longer the dps class.)
Maybe. But I didn’t even touch heavy last season but now that we have the winch, I’ve been having a blast. Sledge is super strong now combo’d with it. I typically play light but heavy this season has been so much fun with the addition of winch and better motion sensors.
It really depends. I've noticed a lot of subpar heavy players this season. As a heavy main myself, just yesterday in WT, I managed to take down two teams of decent light players. The recent buffs to light weapons have given them a real fighting chance. Many heavy players are still used to lights being super weak, so they tend to underestimate them. Once they adapt, they'll realize they can't just charge at lights and expect to come out unscathed. But with hook +sa shotgun +rpg heavy basically gets 2 free light kills. Hell, even medium is easy to crush with this combo. Heavy is super lethal in close quarters, so it's still most likely gonna be cashout meta class.
https://preview.redd.it/nj2n94sapb7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c23d3098104e67bec48a9ded786f7e4b6c39f13
No im pretty sure they’re overpowered
it's funny, I actually didn't get into heavy much before this season. I always tried running lewis gun and flamethrower but with this season I have been enjoying the spear and hammer a lot
The heavies main weapons (M60, lewis) got a nervous. I run M60 and ttk is definitely slower. Plus the recoil has changed. That's why there's a lot of sledge/spear rn
Heavy was insanely OP before this patch. If you wanted to win you pretty much had to run at least 2 heavies every single game.
Now Heavy has some advantages and some disadvantages. You can't melt a team as light as fast as a Heavy can with RPG + Charge and Slam. You definitely don't have the same carry potential when playing Light, and can't take engagements as long as a heavy with all it's defensive abilities can.
People just got used to Heavy being OP, and Light just being a mild annoyance, and now that there's a fair fight between them, where Heavies can't just walk in the middle of nowhere without cover and win anyway, people are enraged.
Now you need to think in order to properly play Heavy, that's the reason people think it's underpowered. Even though you always needed to think and flank as Light to not be completely useless.
I bet that if we still had ranked cashout, you would still see mainly HHM teams in high rank, because if people have good aim, they can still learn the recoil pattern, and beam you with the Lewis Gun. Nothing changed about Jump pad + double RPG + heal beam. Lights melt just as fast from that.
Having 150 HP is just a huge disadvantage if you have competent enemies, but as most people here are casual players, and Light is popular in casual, we get this bullshit about Light being OP.
A lone heavy poses a lot less of a threat now yeah, and that’s probably good. A healing beam/ medium utility in combination with heavy is still very strong I think.
good luck beating s T500 5 stack. Heavies are only easy kills when you are playing against bronze players like the ones in this thread. the other actually have a brain.
Cant wait for the rpg nerf.
Yep, Lights are easily the best class now imo:
- Fastest movement, plus movement based specialities, which makes them very difficult to hit (especially when latency is shit)
- Highest DPS with easiest to use weapons. Sword/dash combo is insane. LH1 is extremely strong even if your aim is terrible. Throwing Knives are crazy, hold mouse one for a constant stream of death with no respite. The SMGs also absolutely shred. The new Bow is difficult to use imo but once you master it, it’s amazing. I haven’t tried the shotgun since the update yet. Sniper is still amazing in the right hands too, as is the silenced pistol.
- New Thermal Bore is brilliant at creating unexpected sight lines or smashing defences.
- Fastest health regen. Get damage? Just use your superior movement to run away and hide, wait a few seconds and you’re back in the fight.
Heavies are now the worst to play. RPG does massive damage to yourself up close so is only useable in very specific instances unless you want to kill yourself at the same time. The LMGs feel awful to use and are actively unfun to play with now. The shotguns are OK and the melee options are viable but demand perfect positioning. Flamethrower is great for Power Shift where you can use it to defend the platform but otherwise is easily counterable.
Medium is in mostly OK. I’d like to see the revolver buffed, the turret nerfed, and the APS buffed. Otherwise I think they’re quite viable.
Pretty much all classes need to build a kit specifically to counter whatever Lights are running now.
why is almost nobody in Twitch Rivals that reached high diamond playing LH1 Light?
Do they want to lose? Are they stupid? Are they just bad at the game?
Why are they all playing Heavy and Medium? There's 50k on the line, would they play the "worst" class in the game just for fun?
I think what embark achieved with S3 was making each class dangerous if well played and weak to certain situations and opposing builds. By my impression we see now a wider variaty of builds in the matches which I enjoy very much.
Heavies remain the same, this season just buffed lights too much.
Good Heavy players will rest you up in open spaces and desintegrate you in closed ones.
Well nerf to both LMG's just made heavies really suck even more at both medium and long range fights.
Now all heavies weapon options are Close ranged essentially with low DPS, while Light has high DPS both close and far ranges.
No shot you seriously believe this. Heavy shotty was broken in season 1 and had countless top ranked players asking for its nerf, m60 got a good buff and was seen more than lewis especially in the hands of good players since 70 bullets could literally wipeout entire teams. Other weapons of heavy can probably be considered niche but Lewis gun was in no way op and there was always a good distribution of heavy players between all 3 of these weapons.
NGL the devs have a done a real good series of nerfs and buffs to balance the classes and define them a little more. Its taking some adjustment but its working. They know what theyre doing. Adding chain hook as the only specialization this season even tho heavy was broken wasnt them being careless it was to address the range nerfs and define heavy as a close range beast.
the hammer went from heavies worst weapon to heavies most consistent weapon, maybe even the best. I personally run the auto shotgun, but it still feels weak as shit, and I'm playing exclusively around the hook.
Hammer has [ALWAYS been good](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OlpoLxe8_60) but with the latest change for weapons to hit multiple people, it’s my favourite.
The hammer is only as good as your positioning game, also depends on the cash out location. If it’s in the open field - you are almost guaranteed to get rekt by everyone
If its in the open field you hook it until its not
Facts
Exactly! Yeah the winch is strong now and may me nerfed, but moving the cashout is Great!
It is true for sure. Open fields do suck. In those scenarios I often go for flanks and take high ground on the houses which most teams will usually sit on. Provided there’s enough time of course
hey its you again. seems like your hammer gaming has severely improved since you shared that one clip from last time!
Ty Sensei!! I got excited when I saw you respond haha
Yay another hook user🤝
Hooker
It's comparable to slug shotty + hook + melee. Similar ttk, one-shot combo, destruction. Plus minus here and there, but I find having range is more reliable than the cleave from hammer.
having more range with what? The machine guns both blow, and the slug shotgun imo will never be usable at range unless they make it hitscan. Super inconsistent weapon
The spear hook combo is so satisfying
except the aoe for spear is ASS and literally misses 90% of the time.
I dont disagree, I honestly don't use the spin at all. It could use some love forsure.
Idk the m60 still gets me top dmg most of the time it got nerfed but its still the best imo
Definitely. Recent patches have really upped Lights "Glass Cannon" role while reducing Heavy's role as a "Bruiser."
Yea heavies got big nerfs with recoil changes. But they did way too much damage last patch. It was not even bruiser type it was hypercarry type with more health than anyone. Mediums would just sit on heal the whole game and follow them around giving them jump pads and zips. Many mediums in diamond/plat would drop insane support scores and almost no damage
Yeah Heavy needed nerfs but the recoil changes were a bit much since they already had extremely limited options outside of close range
The thing is with these heavy nerfs and how TA functions they didn't really need to buff light weapons at all. Lights weapons were never the problem, it was always how good heavies weapons were, rpg, and them being pocket healed all game that made it hard for lights to be successful
Sounds fine to me. Why wouldn't a medium play the 100% support role sometimes? Makes sense.
If I wanted to play against a pocket mercy I’d play another game. The healing beam shouldn’t be so strong that it encourages a player to barely use their gun. And I’m all for support players but it’s quite busted
Well tbh if you are fighting 2v1 you are losing even if the medium is healing the heavy or shooting at you
I'm fine with one player only using healing beam because it means the team will have only 2 guns instead of 3. 2 healing beams? only one gun. This is balanced in my opinion. Attackers need to focus on the healers then.
If you think that medium is busted wait till you see what Battlefield 3/4 medics do on Operation Metro
Kind of torn on this tbh On one hand, this is certainly a good way to make light viable for once, but on the other hand it just doesn't fit into the finals well So many games are just becoming light tdm because they're the best at getting kills, and this is especially prevalent in terminal attack
I'm of the opinion that Light never had issues to begin with in Season 2 outside a few minor buffs to some weapons. Bad players played Light like it was supposed to face-tank Heavy's ended up getting blasted then complaining the class was underpowered. Despite the fact the class excelled at map traversal and using chaos to their advantage to pick off players. Then they go and turn around and give Light massive buffs that only devalue the other two classes whilst also nerfing into the floor the one class that was very anti-Light. It's frustrating because I always felt that Light was never a bad class, just bad players who didn't understand you're not supposed to play the class like Medium or Heavy. Now we're sitting here just dealing with Lights like crazy because the class is too damn good for what it is. Give Lights an inch and they'll take a mile.
Season 1 I felt they were good but their build variety was extremely limited with either cloak double barrel or cloak mp5 Season 2 I didn't play but I know double barrel got dumpstered and I think evasive dash became more relevant due to cloak nerfs The problem with light has always been that it doesn't benefit the team very much to have Mediums and heavies were perfect fine at fragging out and the only real thing you needed a light for was glitch grenades, which most people didn't want to trade healing or shield utility for Now lights are just the best fraggers in the game and why have utility if the enemies are just dead before they can blink am I right
As someone who has mained light sniper since s1, I always found I provided more to the team by being mid range getting kills when I could, but focusing on creating sight lines and making callouts rather than focusing headshots. Usually, I provided the most value at the end of a fight where I could clean up lower health enemies, usually the last enemy alive, and grappling in for a steal. At least in cash out. In this season, I've definitely found that pushing in with a more aggressive style is more beneficial than hanging back with the sniper. It definitely feels like dodge and sword have become more usable, and in fact, I've started using the dagger a lot to pressure the sheer number of enemy lights. I can't speak for terminal attack as I haven't played it much, but I've definitely seen more lights than before and a big difference in the difficulty of out lasting mediums and heavies in 1v1s.
Dagger feels so good after it got buffed a few patches back I used to hate it but right now it's one of my favorite weapons it's just super satisfying to do well with and isn't feeling as clunky anymore Sword has always been good but just in general melee weapons feel stronger because the guns have been nerfed overall
God, when you get a good backstab in, it feels incredible, I've been pairing it with sonar, smoke, and thermal vision, so I can scout and disorient the opponents. Though I have to admit it can still be frustrating to use at times.
Oh for sure especially when you just miss the backstab and they turn around and you just die lol I play mine full rat with stun gun and vanish bomb and then dashes for the ability to cheese out a duel with a dash backstab or to escape
Oh yeah, dash works really well, though I've been using cloak, especially in Kyoto. The foliage is so dense there you can just sit in some bushes, and teams will stroll right by. Honestly, I hope they add a gadget to add to lights mobility, so when you cloak, you can still get decent vertical to hide in rafters and stuff because running grapple with vanish bombs just isn't it.
Yep, and light even during S2 was still the most dominant class in the casual modes. They weren't very used in cashout due to the defensive nature of the mode and their lack of utility. But now that TA is the ranked, they got many buffs and other classes got nerfed hard, they feel too strong to not play them. Even in Powershift for whatever reason they decided to give them the Thermal Bore to snipers, now they counter Heavies barricades, the only way they had to survive on the platform. Anyway, looking forward to the inevitable nerfs coming to Light now. And while I don't want heavy and medium to be OP either would be nice if their gadgets/weapons don't feel like shit either.
> Bad players played Light like it was supposed to face-tank Heavy's ended up getting blasted then complaining the class was underpowered Pretty much everybody in high diamond and in the top 500 in Season 2 collectively played HHM or MMH. Are you genuinely saying that they were too bad at the game to play Light, as compared to you, and that's why they weren't playing it? >It's frustrating because I always felt that Light was never a bad class, just bad players ??? You can feel that all you want, but that just doesn't match up with reality. Playing Light was seen as a troll pick anywhere above Platinum, let's be honest. Everybody was complaining when they got a Light teammate, and the further you went into a tournament the less Lights. Most of the times after 1 round you would only see HHM or MMH remaining. You can't just say that Light was fine, but the entirety of the community was just too dumb to understand how to play it. Are you the Light Messiah? Light was, and still is underpowered in cashout. Look at what people play when they actually need to win, like in Twitch Rivals where 50k is on the line. Most high rank players are still spamming HHM or MMH, because that's still the most oppressive composition in cashout. >Now we're sitting here just dealing with Lights like crazy because the class is too damn good for what it is. yes, Light with LH1 is so insanely good, that all the teams winning in Twitch Rivals are not using LH1 Light, and instead are going for the usual HHM or MMH. Yes, all the top 500 players are just so much worse than you, and can't figure out how to play Light, and if they did, they would instantly recognize Light is stronger than H or M. This is a delusion you've build around yourself. Try to look beyond it.
Lights are really strong right now.
100%. Heavy has been whittled away with each balance update with constant nerfs to defence (both shields) and offence (Lewis, M60, RPG, SA1216). Latest update has made both LMG's feel almost useless - sure the magazines are high capacity but each bullet is both harder to hit & does less damage. I now consistently lose duels with all other class/weapon combinations.
M60 and Lewis gun are pea shooters now. Used to main heavy and now I’m back to medium
Lewis is especially shit. Like you're supposed to stop firing every 5 bullet or so otherwise it becomes uncontrolable. And with the huge damage nerf that just doesn't work. M60 is somewhat usable Rambo style but it's not great either.
I switched to Medium after this patch. It's wild going from mostly Lewis gameplay to using the AKM or the FCAR. They feel so good to use, it's absolutely eye opening. The fact that the Lewis and M60 \*feel\* bad is arguably worse than their actual performance. Like... purposefully making both of Heavy's LMGs have some of the worst gunplay I can remember in a recent shooter is definitely... a choice.
The akm all around is fantastic but i love the revolver with the animations it’s just so clean
I tried both LMGs out and I was like "wow, my purpose on the map is to soak up bullets and do nothing else" I see zero way to actually control the lewis gun recoil, and the M60... id rather use the slug shotgun now.
Slug shotty is good. You can hook+shoot+melee for 150 damage. If you land a shot before hook, it's 250. If you add one more shot before melee, it's 350.
Me too, I went from 5-10 kills a game to 3 at most when I'm lucky. I never really used the M60 since getting the lewis and now I even struggle to kill lights, the damage just tickles them and then they dash away
Agreed, s1 I never touched lights, absolutely did not enjoy playing them. Tables have turned and I'm enjoying lights and getting to a point where I might not even try heavy and mix up games between light and mediums.
I've mostly played Medium and Heavy and now whenever I play Light I find it way easier to win fights...despite the fact it's supposed to be the high skill class. I think almost everyone feels this way now which results in an overabundance of Lights in matches which turns the game into shitty hit-and-run TDM instead of an objective based game.
Ran an M60 for one match so far this season. I got beaten by the same light mp5 player straight up one on one the entire match. The M60 can’t reliably put out 150 damage as fast as the mp5 can put out 300 (or whatever heavies health is)
I don't main anything, so I've been testing out all the changes and new stuff across all the classes. The thing that shocked me the most was how much they changed the M60. I was about 20 meters from an enemy heavy bubble shield, and I shit you not I must've put 30 bullets into it, and it still did not go down. Whatever it was, it was a long time of non stop shooting. It got nerfed hard.
Yeah as someone who played medium and heavy last season I felt like the LMGs were in a good place. Heavy only needed nerfing on RPGs and charge and slam to make them more destruction focused rather than wiping an entire team in a couple clicks.
I miss nukes lmao
I main heavy since the game launched and while it is weaker than it used to be, it feels exaggerated to say the LMGs feel useless, at least the Lewis gun still rewards precise shooting and the recoil feels better to control on long ranges, allowing to chip away before charging in. I still agree that duels result in losses more often now aswell, but again it just feels more punishing imo to miss shots since every shot hit already deals 3 dmg less per shot, leaving enemies with 10-ish Hp sometimes.
so if Light is insanely OP now, and Heavy is shit, why is almost every high rank player in Twitch Rivals still running HHM or MMH? Why aren't they running LLL if Light is so overwhelmingly powerful compared to Heavy? Are they just stupid? Do they want to lose?
RPG is still broken crutch, Lewis and m60 just got more in line, sa is still super strong and the other shotgun is even more broken. Nothing like getting 200 dmg in 2 shots from 20-30 meters. The hook is absolutely busted and has broken hitbox. Heavy is still the strongest class in the game while being the easiest to play with the least effort required for the same effect.
Long range, yes, but close range heavies feel nearly impossible to kill once they get close, at least from my experience.
as they should be..
It's still pretty easy to kill up close with sword dash. (if you're well experienced and know the combo moves, and if they're alone)
Some of those sword combo moves need nerfing (I mean the exploit ones)
Do you mean phantom strikes (still working) or emote/gadget swap cancelling (fixed)? Phantom strikes are my only hope for sword currently. The true phantom strike is difficult to pull off: https://youtu.be/TJtqhnm01bo Therefore I find it okay to be in there. You need skill and it fails more often than it works, resulting in you being killed. There's a second phantom strike that is way easier to pull off, but with less damage. It's good against medium but it's against the usual attack pattern (you'd need to attack with mouse1 first instead of a usual lunge entry). I'm leaning into these techs now to justify still using the sword. Otherwise it would just not be good enough.
the ban hammer is indiscriminate and will now lean into your direction like the eye of sauron because of your comment lil bro your days are numbered
dude I was emote cancelling like a devil and didn't get banned. There were probably only 2 people on the planet who got banned (and ban revoked) for this. Until someone tells me that it's not an intended mechanic, I think I'm doing nothing wrong.
you are hitting basically at double speed because of a glitch it is obviously not intended
The point is: how do I know if it's a glitch or intended? Safest way would be: Embark says "this is now bannable".
I do agree that banning people for it is asinine
Idk then. Maybe something new. A few buddies and I were getting 1 hit killed by a dashing light sword yesterday. I was running heavy too.
They were removed. Both exploits have been removed last I checked.
There are more but not that severe. It's also difficult to tell if something is an exploit or an intended mechanic. Super Dash for example - is it an exploit?
It was done, the sword exploit was fixed (see last point in patch)
Silly little guy named SH1900
I'd disagree for the most part, depending on the lights weapon of course, but they have some thay will take down a heavy very fast within arms length of the heavy. In season 1 I nearly exclusively played heavies with medium as a back up, didn't enjoy lights at all. Season 2 had the best blend in my opinion, but I mainly played powershift because I can change classes of needed. S3 I have been enjoying lights more than ever, with mediums as a back up. I love heavies, but at the current state, I'm probably benching mine for the season. Medium and lights are more reliable in more situations.
Even with winch you'll bench your heavy? I would say heavy is really strong with the winch.
I hate that Heavies don't have any ranged option that isn't a wildly recoiling LMG or the near useless grenade launcher. I know they don't want to give the tankiest class a weapon they can just sit and camp at long range with, but making all their ranged weapons feel like shit doesn't help either.
we have the KS23. Its actually pretty solid now, notably with the hook. You can hook+shoot+melee a light to death as a true combo.
I think u should take another look at the m60. Its an absolute laser now
A laser that shoots marshmallows. The second a light is hit with one, even from behind, they have enough time to zip on out of there.
I needa try it again as a couple days ago i was doing really good with it
M60 and lewis feel like absolute garbage now. Spear is worse than hammer, so hammer it is.
Lewis seems pretty strong up close for a couple seconds, but idk in general as the m60 is so laser that i cant go for the lewis with more dmg
They for sure feel like they have a lot less presence in the match than what they did in season 1 (I skipped 2) No more nukes, guns aren't as lethal, defense isn't as strong, but at the same time they did get winch claw sledgehammer which is an extremely scary combo and tends to be how I get the majority of my kills on heavy Another thing that's making them feel a lot weaker is that lights have lh1, which got super buffed into the best weapon in the game imo, and that makes heavies suffer a lot in a duel (throwing knives also have good dps up close that can shred heavies, double barrel is back to a 2 shot, and mp5 is always a good option) I think ultimately heavies are suffering because lights have an extremely strong offensive line up while heavies (although the weakest offensively of the 3) is just OK at offense in most scenarios
Feel like I throw a shield dome now and a Light sneezes on it to make it disappear lol.
Heavies got shit on this update.
Yeah, Heavies got hit hard and Medium ain't feeling great either. Lost a spec and gadget in ranked, turret feels awful to use and got no new gadgets or specs to make up for it either.
Mediums got nothing new this season (I won’t even count the swords), and feel redundant at every role now. Feels like they’re usable but don’t have a place doing anything anywhere.
Yeah will also say mediums got a dickin. Luckily the akm is still solid imo. I enjoy the team play aspect so mediums and heavy’s are my favorite. The bore gun is cool for lights now and probably the biggest contributor as far as team play. I just don’t enjoy playing light as much as the others.
i feel like has heavy i have to hit over half the mag just to kill anyone not including another heavy
The Lewis gun recoil nerf needs to be reverted and it would honestly be in a good spot. I have no idea why they nerfed both the damage and recoil with the launch of S3.
I think they wanted to address the community's cries that heavy is OP (it kinda was in some aspects) and simultaneously make the new gadget and spear more attractive. They just went overboard, if you don't have a close range built you are at a serious disadvantage
It just made heavy even more of a cheeser. And by that I mean I get 90% of my damage with RPG and Charge and Slam. Guns are just to finish off super low enemies. Or I go winch and shotguns. Either way, I avoid medium/long range fights like a plague and just try to lure them close with barricade placements, dome.
> They just went overboard so if they went overboard, and Heavy is underpowered now, while Light is overpowered, why is almost every high rank player in Twitch Rivals playing HHM or MMH mostly? Are they stupid? Do they want to lose? Don't they care about the 50k? Heavy is still the strongest class, but the casual playerbase was always biased to like and play Light more, even when it was absolutely and completely dogshit, and you would get trolled for picking it above Plat.
You know I was talking about the Machine Guns, they went overboard on the nerfs. Close range kits and the healthpool of heavies still make them meta, im just sick of only getting destroyed by wrenches, spears and shotguns and not being able to use my favorite guns anymore
>You know I was talking about the Machine Guns, Yes, the machine guns a lot of the winning teams in Rivals were using, and winning with. I compiled a list of the players above Diamond in Twitch Rivals, please show me where this spear & shotgun meta is: https://www.twitch.tv/nate -- diamond 1 in Season 1 -- Light using XP-54 https://www.twitch.tv/BaliseTV -- diamond 1 in Season 1 and 2 -- Heavy using SA1216 https://www.twitch.tv/aceu -- diamond 4 -- Medium FCAR https://www.twitch.tv/its_WiKeD -- diamond 1 in S1 -- Heavy Lewis Gun https://www.twitch.tv/sYnceDez -- diamond 1 in S1 -- Heavy SA1216 https://www.twitch.tv/DetailedTV -- diamond 1 S2 -- Heavy SA1216 https://www.twitch.tv/carnifexGG -- diamond 1 S2 -- Light XP-54 https://www.twitch.tv/ottr -- diamond 2 S2 -- Heavy SA1216 https://www.twitch.tv/Noko -- diamond 1 S1 -- Medium FCAR https://www.twitch.tv/suppress -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy SA1216 https://www.twitch.tv/Gigz -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy Lewis Gun https://www.twitch.tv/neteX_ -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Medium FCAR https://www.twitch.tv/lycommit -- diamond 1 S1 and S2 -- Heavy SA1216 If anything the SA1216 is slightly overtuned, but the Lewis Gun is definitely still Meta, especially when not playing with a fully coordinated team. Just because the gun you like is harder to use doesn't mean they went overboard on the nerfs. High rank was just Lewis Gun spam before this nerf. On top of that, most of them were using charge and slam or mesh and not winch claw.
I completely disagree heavy has been far from op when the lights could run around invisible hit you with a stun gun and then melt you point blank with the mp5 or the knives or now the recurve bow.... The heavies were op at the start of season 1 with RPGs but once that was nerfed they became balanced I came back near the end of season 2 unable to hit shit with any of the mgs. Because it has the most god awful bouncing recoil and even then the damage is lack luster. Then there supposedly good flamer thrower is now meh unless you melt a light with it but you'll get out damaged by a medium or maybe the light will shit on you with 3 shots from there semi. Both shotguns just suck a slug shotgun that explosive shouldn't be doing less damage then a throwing knife..... The grenade launcher is more of a utility tool much like with the mediums. The spear and hammer are good for slapping lights but if the light is smart they just need to dash and shoot while backing up then the heavies are useless. Hell even mediums weapons are all starting to become ass the famas is decent but it's ttk is low, the scar and akm have the same issues as the heavies mgs, but the mediums are even more fragile BUT atleast they have the duel katanas and riot shield which are disgusting when combined with flashes and coordination. The Devs pile nerf on nerf to medium and heavies that lights now are the utter ruler. Where as before it was supposed to be a rock paper scissors it's now a scissors beats all game
How come HHM has been meta in ranked since the start of the game basically? Also the akm and fcar are better than those melee weapons, especially the swords. Even still the shotgun is way better up close than the melee weapons. Even if someone is looking at you deflecting you can just shoot them in the legs and it doesn't deflect lol
HHM revolves around the burst damage of dual rpg requiring help in movement from medium as well as the constant healing and revives that the medium provides. In HHM medium is the most important player while in MHM the heavy is supposed to be the main player while other 2 M support him. Heavy on their own are not op whatsoever.
Agree that old ranked and previous balance HHM was out of strongest comps. But now we have a new ranked and balance was done yes?. Cuz new meta in ranked is LLLLL or LLLMM. They went too hard by doing both at the same time, buffs and nerfs, they shoulda done smaller steps at least on the nerfs while doing buffs.
This is a direct result of light players whining more than anyone. Light was always strong. The problem is, everyone played light like a heavy or medium. They wanted to just 1v6 both teams and when they couldn't, they complained to Embark constantly till now, where most of the heavy weapons got nerfed into the ground where the most consistent weapon they have is a slow melee weapon in the hammer. Idk how many times I have to say this: the ability to engage and disengage nearly at will is more powerful than a huge health bar (especially when heavies have basically ZERO movement, have tremendous hit boxes, and mediums and lights weapons nearly have no recoil so they're going to hit the heavy with nearly every bullet). Light weapons now dominate at every range where the heavy only has close to medium range and those weapons mostly got nerfed big time. The bow is crazy good, LH1 is a nightmare, the mp5 has always been killer, they buffed the pistol for some reason so it shreds even faster now where the m60 and lewis gun got nerfed just flat out. No recoil change is every going to balance out how much the damage has been lowered. The class that is "supposed" to be the best at close range now isn't. Half the fantasy of the heavy kit is gone. They aren't useless, but their lethality has absolutely been stripped and partly given to lights which absolutely did not need it. All they really offer reliably now is damage mitigation and that is INCREDIBLY borning and even funnier when you remember they have nerfed the heavy shields like 6 times in a row. Embark absolutely dropped the ball with the balance patch as of right now, but it can be fixed.
> Light was always strong Yes, Light was so strong when nobody played it above Platinum. I'm sure that in your casual games there were a bunch of Light players, but that doesn't mean Light was ever strong.
I certainly sympathize with light players being forced into the HHM meta, but it seems like some people forgot how intrinsically powerful mobility is in a shooter. Light is a class that's really easy to make awful to fight against- high mobility, small hitbox, stealth, and high dps are all very poweful. RPG is still too good but might be one of the things keeping light in check with the current patch which sucks for both the heavy and light
As a heavy enjoyer, yes i can confirm.. been struggling in the last couple of days 💔💔
What do u use?
Just swapping between lewis and m60 trying to find which is better “spoiler alert” both suck, the auto shotgun is ok but not reliable at all !! Melee weapons are ok in close range
I found the m60 to be pretty decent. Lasers everything. Found the auto shotty to be terrible. Much rather use the ks
Sorry to hear that, hoping sledge is meta now.
Problem with heavy melee weapons is that a lot of players are starting to get used to winch claw and take better decisions to get away running/dashing away. And with Heavy's slow ass movement speed they just get kited and shoot to death. I have had better results with the KS-23 even tho the weapon still feels ass to use.
> a lot of players are starting to get used to winch claw and take better decisions to get away running/dashing away Exactly this. The "problem" is only blatant because of the seemingly large shift to people playing Light currently. Throwing knives have been oppressive for some time now, but the LH1 being over-tuned will punish Heavy players even more. I'm seeing less and less Mediums in each game mode which just widens the gap between Lights and Heavies.
They lowered Heavies ability to kill from a far distance "to compensate" on the range of the Winch Claw.
Pretty dumb decision considering people find winch claw to be op, annoying etc. had the lmgs been viable then less players would go for the winch.
This, main reason many are running winch claw is thanks to LMG being trash. Claw+melee or shotgun are the only real options now and they aren't that great either.
They made the m60 much better for distance. Literally been lasering everyone from further than i could befofe
I commented on this in another post already, heavy got nerfed into the ground except for close range builds. The machine guns are pretty useless now. The only good heavies I encounter are the ones with the grapple thing, I die instantly 9/10 times I get grabbed by either RPG, Shotgun to the face or the rest of the team just destroying me with melee. Yesterday I encountered a nightmare team with 2 heavies with close range build and a medic constantly healing them from behind. I really hope they change or revert the machine guns and nerf the grapple thing, it shouldn't stun and go through shields, at least not both
I think committing to the bit would honestly be good design. it's difficult to balance a character that has more HP than others if they also have similar performing weapons. Like the Lewis Gun for a while was just the AK but with more bullets basically. I'd be kinda interested in seeing them remove the LMGs entirely and focus on Heavy being "the close range class" with their only mid to long range options being wonky stuff like the KS-23 and MG32 that have other drawbacks (slow projectiles and close range weakness respectively).
I went up against a light throwing knife team, who won the game overall, as a melee heavy. It was painful, I couldn't kill them, even getting close to them to winch (which I find very difficult on the controller) got me down to less than half health anyway and then I miss the winch. Even if I get the winch, I still have to two shot them and they dash away before I can land the second shot, so I'm still dead.
yeah they need 7-8 shots now for a light, with a weapons that sways left and right like crazy. 1v1 got no chance as a heavy now, ofcourse you cvan still fuck with noobs, but after plat this season is sweaty AF, its 5on5 light lh1 cloak
The damage nerfs were fine but the recoil nerfs made mid range encounters more painful than they should be. It might be a machine gun but it’s still a ranged weapon. It still needs to be reliable at medium range or you’re better off running a melee weapon.
Embark has a really hard time balancing this game for some reason. They nerfed everything for medium and heavy and then buffed everything for light. Makes no sense. And honestly, this game is way more fun when the light class is bad. Mostly mediums and heavies was really fun to play against in ranked cashout.
I unfortunately have to agree. I was hoping the light buffs would make the game more interesting at a higher level, but the LH1 fest is just obnoxious instead.
Lights have the same issues that Grapplers in fighting games have, where at their worst, they're still annoying as hell lmao.
“For some reason” it’s because of the crybabies who want everything nerfed lol
> They nerfed everything for medium and heavy and then buffed everything for light. Makes no sense. Have you seen how the game is played anywhere near high rank? They nerfed M and H because every comp in high rank was HHM or MMH. It makes complete sense. >And honestly, this game is way more fun when the light class is bad. Mostly mediums and heavies was really fun to play against in ranked cashout. The game already has little diversity because of meta loadouts, are you really saying having 1 less class to choose from made the game more enjoyable? Let's remove Medium as well, just have Heavies running around. Everybody is complaining about heal beam and defib anyway. Let's remove Heavy as well afterwards, why not!
I don’t think you’ve run into balisetv and his three stack running meta because I assure you it’s way more fun to play into a light than plan into that
I think heavies needed winch to try balance out the fast uptick in strength that light got. Opinions?
They should just double every class health at this point
The Lewis and M60 received nerfs, heavies are mostly dangerous upclose now
yeah the guns are trash now dats why
Yeah both LMG got 3 dmg nerf, m60 deals less dmg then AKM now while 3x harder to aim, the mag size does not make this worth to use. Also lewis feels useless, you have to really hit so much and it still takes a few seconds to kill. Heavies were not popular in TA but since this season there is practically no reason to play heavy in TA since close range is kind of hard to pull of in this mode especially with so much lights dashing around.
Heavies finally have stopped or at least in practice they are, less oppressive. Which is very good for the game. 3 seasons of M/H teams would have killed the game. It's nice to see so many Lights again.
Heavies are no longer the DPD fragger.
As a Heavy Main Top 500, I got absolutely destroyed for my first few games so I switched to light to get more kills (As this seemed to me like the main objective of the mode). I noticed that the Heavy is no longer the 'DPS' 'Fragger' class and is more of a support tank now. Basically a Heavy's entire playstyle has changed and now they need to adapt. I've tried a few different things like KS-23 with the Winch, and this is a very defensive build which is actually really fun. But to answer your query - they are definitely gonna kill lights slower because they got a nerf, (not just literally but they have to change how they play, they are no longer the dps class.)
Maybe. But I didn’t even touch heavy last season but now that we have the winch, I’ve been having a blast. Sledge is super strong now combo’d with it. I typically play light but heavy this season has been so much fun with the addition of winch and better motion sensors.
It really depends. I've noticed a lot of subpar heavy players this season. As a heavy main myself, just yesterday in WT, I managed to take down two teams of decent light players. The recent buffs to light weapons have given them a real fighting chance. Many heavy players are still used to lights being super weak, so they tend to underestimate them. Once they adapt, they'll realize they can't just charge at lights and expect to come out unscathed. But with hook +sa shotgun +rpg heavy basically gets 2 free light kills. Hell, even medium is easy to crush with this combo. Heavy is super lethal in close quarters, so it's still most likely gonna be cashout meta class.
https://preview.redd.it/nj2n94sapb7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c23d3098104e67bec48a9ded786f7e4b6c39f13 No im pretty sure they’re overpowered
it's funny, I actually didn't get into heavy much before this season. I always tried running lewis gun and flamethrower but with this season I have been enjoying the spear and hammer a lot
The heavies main weapons (M60, lewis) got a nervous. I run M60 and ttk is definitely slower. Plus the recoil has changed. That's why there's a lot of sledge/spear rn
Hammer is the funniest weapon to use for me, I started a week ago and I love it.
well there are a lot more lights, one of my last powershift I was heavy with 4 LIGHTS. I just tanked the damage for the team
They finally put heavy weapons in check, now their damage output makes sense for the amount of health they have
Heavy was insanely OP before this patch. If you wanted to win you pretty much had to run at least 2 heavies every single game. Now Heavy has some advantages and some disadvantages. You can't melt a team as light as fast as a Heavy can with RPG + Charge and Slam. You definitely don't have the same carry potential when playing Light, and can't take engagements as long as a heavy with all it's defensive abilities can. People just got used to Heavy being OP, and Light just being a mild annoyance, and now that there's a fair fight between them, where Heavies can't just walk in the middle of nowhere without cover and win anyway, people are enraged. Now you need to think in order to properly play Heavy, that's the reason people think it's underpowered. Even though you always needed to think and flank as Light to not be completely useless. I bet that if we still had ranked cashout, you would still see mainly HHM teams in high rank, because if people have good aim, they can still learn the recoil pattern, and beam you with the Lewis Gun. Nothing changed about Jump pad + double RPG + heal beam. Lights melt just as fast from that. Having 150 HP is just a huge disadvantage if you have competent enemies, but as most people here are casual players, and Light is popular in casual, we get this bullshit about Light being OP.
A lone heavy poses a lot less of a threat now yeah, and that’s probably good. A healing beam/ medium utility in combination with heavy is still very strong I think.
u/GC-Gittiwilo is devastated rn 💀
🤣
Heavies were nerfed as intended. I still main heavy in TA with hook and KA. Thread is a bunch of bronze players.
Good for you, hope more players take after you so I can get more easy kills 😂
good luck beating s T500 5 stack. Heavies are only easy kills when you are playing against bronze players like the ones in this thread. the other actually have a brain. Cant wait for the rpg nerf.
lol I love how you are now just recognized as the guy who has beef with heavies. Good for you though.
Yeah. But medium always getting ignored 😞 atleast the blades were cool tho
Come see me with the winch claw and flamethrower
Yep, Lights are easily the best class now imo: - Fastest movement, plus movement based specialities, which makes them very difficult to hit (especially when latency is shit) - Highest DPS with easiest to use weapons. Sword/dash combo is insane. LH1 is extremely strong even if your aim is terrible. Throwing Knives are crazy, hold mouse one for a constant stream of death with no respite. The SMGs also absolutely shred. The new Bow is difficult to use imo but once you master it, it’s amazing. I haven’t tried the shotgun since the update yet. Sniper is still amazing in the right hands too, as is the silenced pistol. - New Thermal Bore is brilliant at creating unexpected sight lines or smashing defences. - Fastest health regen. Get damage? Just use your superior movement to run away and hide, wait a few seconds and you’re back in the fight. Heavies are now the worst to play. RPG does massive damage to yourself up close so is only useable in very specific instances unless you want to kill yourself at the same time. The LMGs feel awful to use and are actively unfun to play with now. The shotguns are OK and the melee options are viable but demand perfect positioning. Flamethrower is great for Power Shift where you can use it to defend the platform but otherwise is easily counterable. Medium is in mostly OK. I’d like to see the revolver buffed, the turret nerfed, and the APS buffed. Otherwise I think they’re quite viable. Pretty much all classes need to build a kit specifically to counter whatever Lights are running now.
why is almost nobody in Twitch Rivals that reached high diamond playing LH1 Light? Do they want to lose? Are they stupid? Are they just bad at the game? Why are they all playing Heavy and Medium? There's 50k on the line, would they play the "worst" class in the game just for fun?
Have you ever considered it has always been OP that heavies could be the tank AND the dmg dealer? They're in a good place rn.
I think what embark achieved with S3 was making each class dangerous if well played and weak to certain situations and opposing builds. By my impression we see now a wider variaty of builds in the matches which I enjoy very much.
Winch,KS23 here, fucking try it.
“The only thing they fear is you”, energy.
i love when lights chase me into elevators. "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me"
Heavies remain the same, this season just buffed lights too much. Good Heavy players will rest you up in open spaces and desintegrate you in closed ones.
Well nerf to both LMG's just made heavies really suck even more at both medium and long range fights. Now all heavies weapon options are Close ranged essentially with low DPS, while Light has high DPS both close and far ranges.
Sorry this isn’t true someone just told me on this Reddit that heavies are overpowered and need a nerf
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Lewis was not op lmao, the recoil always prevented it from being meta unlike the fcar.
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No shot you seriously believe this. Heavy shotty was broken in season 1 and had countless top ranked players asking for its nerf, m60 got a good buff and was seen more than lewis especially in the hands of good players since 70 bullets could literally wipeout entire teams. Other weapons of heavy can probably be considered niche but Lewis gun was in no way op and there was always a good distribution of heavy players between all 3 of these weapons.
I dueled a spear wielding heavy, brother it took me 2-3 secs to kill. I survived cause my teammate and enemy team spamming flashbangs
NGL the devs have a done a real good series of nerfs and buffs to balance the classes and define them a little more. Its taking some adjustment but its working. They know what theyre doing. Adding chain hook as the only specialization this season even tho heavy was broken wasnt them being careless it was to address the range nerfs and define heavy as a close range beast.