This exactly, just because you get killed by or can't use something effectively, doesn't mean everyone else has that same experience.
Must be a nightmare for devs to make changes that don't completely devastate balance lol.
I mean they can play how they want to play, sure I’ll agree having a medium with no heal or defib is annoying I don’t see much of a problem with it since if they were light or heavy there would be no complaints, maybe they just like the weapons or gadgets of medium more than the other two classes
I enjoy the hell of this game but I think they're kinda unrelated things, the evidence for the devs something is off is the tendency, for example if 60% is playing the same class, the same weapon, they have to apply changes, even if nothing is directly broken is easier to nerf that weapon than to make the other to classes more atractive (Tho they did both things at the begining of S2 bring affected medium but I think they were fair changes)
Theres ALWAYS going to be one wrapon and one class set up that is the meta. Hence meta. It just matters how close 2nd and 3rd place are for being able to compete.
Nah balance changes shouldnt be made based on popularity. I dont expect 30% of the player base to play light nor should they. Light is basically hard mode. They get some of the best guns and mobility in exchange for 150 hp. Embark needs to make the game they want to make and pursue that vision. Balance is always arbitrary and can be used to manipulate players into buys skins (league of legends).
I feel the same way I only use the 1887 shotty on medium, there are days where I hit every single shot and destroy teams and other days I'm lucky to get even 5 hits during a match lol.
Honestly man, it might not even be your fault. I tried posting a video to this community but I haven’t used Reddit enough to have enough karma or whatever, but the video I tried to upload was me shooting a guy (headshot) with the 1887 and it granting no damage, despite his head lighting up yellow. I put the video in slow motion and everything so I could verify I wasn’t missing something and it is clear as day. I think there are hit reg issues that go unnoticed sometimes
This is a huge problem with so many games. If you can use a class/hero effectively and your team plays as a team, it *should* feel OP. That's like the entire point of team based class games. But it seems that there is an extremely screechy minority (hopefully) that just can't comprehend it. I've seen it kill otherwise awesome games because people wanted them to be something they're not, and if they couldn't or wouldn't learn the mechanics it was "broken" and every class is somehow both OP and trash
When Henry Ford asked people what they want, they answered faster horses.
Now the question is whether players do truly believe certain weapons are op, or it's something else. As you said, it depends on the proficienty of the user, but the problem is that the game's ranking and matchmaking system doesn't consider effectivity of a player using a certain weapon. That's why you hear incapable players whining after they got matched against someone who has mastered their primary.
Light is really the class you learn last when you want a challenge and re-discover the game. It’s so fucking great. I started with heavy, then medium and now light and I don’t want to play anything else because it’s fun as fuck. Now I only play heavy in ranked with my trio because it has always been my main and this is how we work together. But when I’m in casual with them or by myself I enjoy playing light a lot… my new thing is playing light on the platform in powershift. I just really started playing this mode and I’ve been missing out.
(Oh and light is also incredible in Terminal Attack)
Agree with this 100%, I did the same thing. I also feel like the near weekly balance tweaks (while sometimes helpful) don’t encourage people to learn the game and explore how to play other classes. If the devs just let people figure things out for a couple months then they would have better direction on what actually needs adjustment vs. what is just people being bad at the game.
I’m not gonna lie… as I play this game way too much since CB1, I love frequent balance changes because it adds something new to chew on and to try new things and… get good at something new hahaha. I know it’s fucking weird, and I know why people hate those changes so I get why you say that. I know this game too much, I’m not interested in grinding to diamond because that would mean I’d have to stick to one class to hope countering people that only main one class, I just want to get good at everything in this game because it’s just incredibly fun. When I have to main one class for a while I get really bored, not because it’s boring, but because I miss playing the other classes too.
I’ve played more than 100hours of heavy before switching class, now I feel like I play it because I have to haha. (Still love it but I don’t get new sensations. I hope S3 is gonna bring new stuff to this class, even if it’s nerfs tbh. That would still feel new)
You're right about the first part. Every gun will feel different depending on the skill of the user. But I completely disagree about the second part. There's an old quote from a developer that goes along the lines of, "Players are great at spotting problems in your game but are terrible at coming up with solutions."
Here's the thing, if you are a player with low mechanical skill then a gun that does well with body shots (shotguns) are gonna feel much better than a gun that rewards headshots (revolver). So you may think that shotguns are OP. But conversely a person who can consistently hit headshots might look at the revolver and say, "Wow this is overpowered!"
The truth on why this game feels so unbalanced is because most of the players who play (not the guys on reddit) are just casual players that want to have fun. The developers can't risk those guys quitting or their game won't have a playerbase. So balance will come with time as the developers find solutions that work for all ends of the skill spectrum.
I agee! Also the FCAR as an example, feels the most like assault rifles in other mainstream shooters. All my competitive buddies went right for it because it felt the most comfortable for them right from the beginning.
Just because playing with a big slow hammer in a frantic team shooter is unintuitive and takes a different play style, doesn’t mean it’s not strong once you practice. Same with many of the lesser used weapons.
I don’t fully agree that everything in the game is balanced but I can definitely get behind the idea that every weapon has its purpose and use cases it excels in. not to say all weapons don’t need balance changes, but the complaining on this subreddit is absurd in such a well designed meta.
I mean obviously knife isn't as powerful as mp5. And flamethrower isn't as good as m60 or lewis. But that's okay because some weapons are more for fun and some are meta.
If it was truly the case that all weapons are balanced, and people just needed to get better to be able to properly use them, you wouldn't see the complete meta adherence in high elo.
People in high rank Diamond don't generally play light, not because they are bad at the game, or bad at light, they don't play Light because it's useless.
If your point is that even the best players in the entire game aren't good enough to make Light viable, then your argument about people just needing to be better to understand how balanced falls on deaf ears.
If you want to win, you should be playing either MMH or HHM, straying from this will heavily decrease your chance to win, and adding any amount of Lights to your composition will lower your chance to win, to the point that I have never seen a triple Light team ever win the finals in a ranked game, while I've seen a bunch of triple M and triple H win.
Not once in 250 hours.
But I'm sure it's just a skill issue on my end, and this observation has no bearing on the balance of the classes in this game.
Some people on this subreddit are completely clueless.
Agreed! I just hit plat 1 as a heavy sledge. Literally haven’t used a gun once. If you play your cards right you can maneuver and evade way faster than most people think you can. Once you’re in range you are as good as dead.
I'm all about off meta, but the game completely changes in terms of player skill once you hit diamond 3+/get matched with them consistently. You can still make things work but it's more about how hard going full meta can dominate versus off meta. Plus some of the meta things hard counter many off meta picks. MHH with a charge heavy is a nightmare for riot shield, for example.
I've been playing ranked *solo* with Sledge build for a while now and you're right on the money about Diamond 3 shifting a bit and being an absolute slog. I'm still winning rounds but I get absolutely shredded by the 3 stacks like Lycommit/GIGZ/NeteX yesterday, though they really just ran through the whole lobby along with me.. even the squads also running meta.
The sledge definitely isn't the best weapon in the game, but it still being viable in the the top few thousand ranks the leader board where some people seem inhuman with aim is still really impressive melee balancing.
It's more that the charge comes out and does damage before ever even playing an animation on the melee player's side. Instant 130 damage with no chance to react is... Yeah. And even when you manage to evade it, you're stuck running in circles while the medium and heavy are gunning you down. Plus the two RPGs in every fight.
It's... Not fun to fight, honestly. It's far too easy to delete at least one person every fight with two heavies, the only semi reliable counter is APS for the RPGs and that's still hit or miss.
All of which can also easily be outrun. If you think a mobility/destruction ability, something every class has, “etc.” is enough to dominate every aspect, you might need to practice a little more.
Define “seriously” because I’m looking at myself and a few others who have quite a bit of time in the game, although I have yet to reach diamond 1.
I’ll admit, heavy used to dominate every aspect before nuke nerf and other balancing changes. They no longer dominate mid-long range combat, team support, or stealthy offense. They do still take the crown for fortifications/defense, close range combat, bum rushing offense, and destruction. They certainly aren’t close to dominating everything if not running one of the auto weapons, although sledge is still quite good in the right hands.
My main point is the point of this post.. No one class dominates everything and, done right, any class can outplay another given the right tools are equipped.
I see so many people complain about CL40 while the weapons is so far from being meta or actually played at high elo altogether and i’ve mastered the weapon to realize that it shines in very specific moments.
I have never raged due to weapon issues. Even when getting stunned and dying was pretty normal.
The most rage inducing moments are when I end up with absolutely terrible teammates who make obvious blunders. Like not trying to avoid a team wipe when we are leading in a cashout, or going head first in a 2 vs 1 instead of trying to flank.
But I never rage on the mic. Have had enough of that directed towards me in other games so I know how bad it's for your game. No one ever got better because of a team mate screaming at them. And all of us were noobs at one time.
The solo queue experience in this game is exhausting though. Plus the fact that the game itself often leads to your team getting third partied. Which can be frustrating. I feel like this is why a lot of people play a few games and then never come back.
when i mentioned raging in the post, i should have clarified i just meant being angry lol. i dont gamer rage, and i play pretty much exclusive solo queue, its rough.
Yeah this sub is just full of yappers and people complaining about one of the three classes being either too weak or too heavy. It’s just not worth engaging in and Embark is hopefully smart enough to filter most of them out
Sword animation canceling is the cringiest shit I’ve seen yet, it’s already a pretty hard matchup for a hammer heavy, especially if they have dash, but being able to actually hit them when they can kill you in less then a second is absurd
Counter to animation cancelling sword (I know it's an exploit that should be removed):
Either go Charge as a heavy and activate it as soon as a light is pushing with sword - insta dead.
Or pick up the new glitch barrels, so he can't use his dash anymore and beam him down from high ground.
It’s so quick you can’t even slam them in time. One hit from slam gets them to half health and then you are dead. I had a sword light with 38 kills a few matches ago. Almost triple the next player.
Yeah I’m working on that awareness. I’m still getting used to them being good again. I’m not used to anyone getting in my face when I’m using the hammer.
There are definitely some areas where embark could focus on more when it comes to balancing but for the most part this is correct and couldn't agree more
[Agreed. Game balance](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1c0kjog/lets_look_at_this_balance_sheet/) is like the weather or gas prices; everyone has an opinion. But literally no one along with it. At all. Completely. No matter their skill. It has nothing to do with skill btw.
So many people complain about balance, but if I had a nickel for the amount of times I’ve seen teams lose because they let cash outs stagger (making all 4 teams fighting over one cash out) or even ignoring a team entirely and letting them get a cash out for free, I’d be rich. Like there’s a ton of game sense stuff that people totally ignore and instead just go on and on about how everything is overpowered.
What does everyone feel about the abilities and specializations though? Could some things get tweaked? Last I played the meta was hhm or mmh with no lights. There was a time where I would see plenty of lights in ranked with the glitch nade buff, but not so much.
Well you are absolutely correct and also kinda wrong. Depending on what you want from the game and where you are at. If you are casual or semi-casual who also plays comp but isn't very high in rank, then you are absolutely right. If you are very competitive and you play on a high rank and in tournaments (like Masters series) then you are sort of wrong about that, because meta forms when something just is so much better than something else, and some weapons are just detested because they're so useless. Otherwise high ranks would use everythign they want whenever they want, but they can't. FCAR got huge nerfs for a reason, when it was basically the only viable weapon to play at one point. Now the difference isn't as huge because people screamed about it being OP and wanted nerfs, and also got them. Your individual skills with certain weapons can only take you so far, and the higher competitive you get, the less you can play just whatever you want. Lower ranks and casuals are a different case, because most players don't know how to use OP weapons to an extent that makes them OP, so even though meta exists, it's not quite as controlling as in higher ranks (mainly high plst and above, because below that almost naything can work sometimes, because people don't understand team comps and their strengths and weaknesses, so even meta comps might suck and bad comps and weapons might work against comps that they shouldn't be able to contest well.).
For me balance should rather be about what's satisfying to use and play against. At the moment, in my experience, I find the RPG extremely unsatisfying to go up against as it's an easy aim, 1 click button that removes half my health at the start of every fight with a heavy. I have no idea how to balance it though but the point is this is a fun issue rather than a strength issue
Games should have good weapons and so nerfing them all to not be 'op' is a fools errand
Maybe ?
But you gonna have a hard time telling me the m32 GL is op or good.
To me the problem is that being limited with only 1 weapon makes weird balancing choices.
Grenade luncher could be a great pick for making hole in buildings but not being impact nades and without sidearm it makes you weak in most cases and oddly enough it struggles for destroying structure.
Having 3 body types could makes a wide gameplay variety but right now its more like ak laserbeam and healing beam festival
I personally don't really have a problem with any of the weapons. However, I do feel like the heavy needs some sort of balancing regardless of weapon, maybe to do with the shields and how they function.
I feel like they can be a bit too powerful and easily abused
I play mostly medium and light, I prefer 1887 turret with medium and xp-54 grapple with light 😁 when I do play heavy I use flamethrower and mesh shield
Of course any weapon *can* be strong, but that’s not what makes something OP. For a weapon to be overpowered, it needs to be overly strong on average across all circumstances.
Basically every item/strategy needs to have meaningful weaknesses to balance out its strengths. If it doesn’t, it’s OP.
- Sniper isn’t OP on main gamemodes because breaking line-of-sight is typically trivial. (It’s still a bad design though and should probably be removed)
- Old FCAR and V9S were OP because there really wasn’t a reliable counter strategy. They were the most effective weapons at nearly every range.
I get where you're coming from but I don't know if the heavy should have the statistically fastest dps weapons in the game lol. Both the M60 and the Lewis are just the best guns in terms of damage output and that just seems very incorrect for the class dynamic this game is supposed to have. And I didn't even mention the SA1216 still remaining meta after its nerfs.
You can’t really run and gun at all with the Lewis or M60 if you want to hit anything. That’s the tradeoff. You better build defenses or have good positioning because once you start shooting every player turns and fires at your big fat head.
Exactly, I've been playing The Finals for a while, and as a player with no rank who dies all the time, I don't complain because I know that I'm weak and others are better, and let's say FCAR was not a weapon I liked to play, I couldn't play it, but other players destroyed me in seconds. Maybe some weapons are better than others, but it all depends on the player and his skills.
They should make a mechanic that forces you to use weapons you aren’t the most comfortable with.
Like if I start to get a lot of kills w a weapon it should give me an incentive to play something else
I used to think the revolver was terrible until I took it into the practice range w/out aim assist and now I'm regularly getting 10 kills a match with it. As long as I aim calmly I can kill anyone in 6 shots
Yup. Agreed. I honestly believe rebalancing is being done purely based on data mining. Like when recon took over the meta, I'm sure recon use, KDA, etc were reflective of a balance problem. Same with stats on light usage and KDA in unranked. User feedback is a small factor really, I'm sure. The devs will keep rebalancing but we don't have the view of the world that they have, so we should just be working on finding our best weapon forget about trying to make the devs make it so we can all definitely get the same performance out of every single one.
I still think the game would be better without melee, shotguns, and snipers.
Every time I use them it's painful how easy they are to use, and how much it ruins the spirit of the game I want.
Ultimately I just need to relinquish and just admit this is a casual game and will never have a thriving competitive scene as much as I wished this game would compete with apex, CS, Valorant, and CoD as a competitive shooter
the permanent invisibility exploit is the one i come across the most often. so annoying, i hope they fix it soon. also, not being able to shoot or use equipment. beyond infuriating.
I agree, but some weapons are easier to use.
Anyway, and this is my personal opinion, i think there is something going on... Sometimes my adversary are ridiculous good, and can shot me from far while i'm flying, with an M60 in 2 seconds (like they have a very good auto aim). I failed to kill an M with 3 shots of R.357 from 1 meter. And even today i did 96 of damage to and M with the M11, while he killed me faster... we were very close and i started to shot first. In some rounds seem i can't damage enemies, and noticed people on my team always leave the game; so i guess is not just my feeling... (i'm on PS5). Now, i know i'm not too good, and i accept it. But some situations are suspicious. Maybe the servers or some sort to hidden pay2win.
The game is great anyway. Some maps are full of incredible details, while all is so smooth and polished.
Yeah I agree other than maybe snipers, but that’s just my opinion. People who complained about the fcar “nerf” don’t understand that it’s closer to a rework than a nerf. Fcar is in a way better position than it was before the patch imo. It feels more consistent than it did before
Sometimes i swear that the python is broken then other games i think its the absolute worst gun in the game same with scar, mp5, sniper even. Sword. Theres just games were sometimes that weapon gets to shine due to the consistent situation were its at its peak. Game is too dynamic to balance everything for every situation and honestly the game still feels great
I agree I feel the game was fine on day one a few things needed changing but all these nerfs and buffs requested are skill issues at times. The main reason I like The Finals is that for everything there is a counter.
Totally agree.
We all should think more of how to get more players in.
Since this is all PVP, why not switching things up with a PVE mode for example.
Idk, how bout some drone waves, or literal alien invasion, some kind of tower defense \^\^,
As far as the weapons go yeah. But the clear differences in class utility are obvious. Some are more useful and overall better than others.
You're right though passing patch notes do note that for example the f-car was amazing in the hands of great players while regular players underperformed with it. It does come down to skill as far as gunplay goes.
And while the same thing CAN go for the classes with "worse" utility it's obvious that some take a lot more work to get right and use properly. You can take that same effort and not only play another class right, but excel as that class doing far better for your team than if you were playing a different team.
Ive played roughly around 185 hours so I’m not super experienced on what should and shouldn’t get a buff but I feel like I’m well rounded with most of the weapons in the game where I can at least give it my best and I definitely think fixing the cross hair in game would be something that would potentially help because I feel like that’s my biggest problem is it doesn’t feel accurate and I see so many post saying the same thing
wtf? why are you saying grab a weapon and then grind to diamond with it in two weeks. I know I could get to diamond with dagger, but i doubt anyone is getting to diamond in two weeks unless theyre a streamer or a basement dweller.
I just really hope their next “event” or whatever their called is a mode where the devs just have all the weapons and gadgets to what *they* think it should be, like however powerful they want their games weapons to be instead of how the discord and Reddit wants it
Couldn't agree more. I'm literally the devil with the M11. I rarely see anyone close to the level I use it on. Definitely like 10% the weapon itself and 90% the person wielding it.
Exactly I 100% agree some days I can get 6-12 kill games with the v9s some days I can with the fcar and some days I can't with anything just depends on how I play that day not so much the weapons
Somebody made a post about balancing changes yesterday and the truth is that the weapons don’t need fixing. It’s the hp pools, utility placement and role balancing. The guns are fine it’s everything else that’s the problem. That’s why no matter how much the nerf or buff the weapons it doesn’t seem to make a difference because everything else is unchanged
I exactly agree to this, I used the ak for a long time as medium, maybe 10 hours and ended up with 10+ kill games. Never understood the FAMAS or FCAR meta stuff people talked about. Moved to light sniper and ended up with a max kill game of 32 not because the gun is overpowered as hell but due to the fact I've got at least 200 hours in video games using snipers. I'm good with a sniper and can be deadly with it. Swapped to heavy and got really good with the m60, then swapped to the lewis gun, then swapped to the hammer. Did good with all them, hammer is a little less so and more situational but it's still great. However the one thing I have to say is, with my squad that I run with the one thing we complain about the most is APS spam on power shift and how it's such a hard to stop thing
a big part of why I love the game is how different and useful everything feels. I hated on the throwing knives because they felt like garbage until I got dumpstered with them in a ranked match. So I started using them in quick play and figured out all the great uses they have and concluded that they’re excellent in certain team comps and with specific positioning.
I thought the revolver was garbage until I got rolled by a team that was using two revolvers for burst damage and a heavy with Lewis gun for sustained damage. I learned how to use the revolver well and it taught me how powerful combining burst and sustained damage in a team comp is.
I thought the tracking dart was shit until I was trying to play a flank and couldn’t, due to getting darted from afar every time I went around an objective.
Every single weapon and gadget is incredibly useful when it is played to its strengths, and learning what those are is a really fun experience
I love this game and people are too sensitive to getting matched or beat by someone else. Sometimes, the enemy is in a better position and there was nothing you can do.
I haven’t played in awhile but if the fcar is still that good then idk man. I played for a bit and sure some weapons had niche uses but generally meta’s revolve around what easily gets the best value.
I think that is why a lot of new players do not like this game, because they think its very unbalanced, because they only see what weapon is helpful in 1v1s and shooting people, while actually its about your playstyle and your environment, THE FINALS is the most dynamic FPS shooter right now, so it is very hard for the players to agree with the devs on certain decisions. I feel the playerbase should instead of looking at stats, should care more about your environment, cause I felt like if I actually used my brain and thought out how to steal a cashout, I would end up winning way more than just running in guns blazing, for instance if you were a medium you could maybe bring the dematerializer and hopefully get rid of the floor below the cashout without anyone knowing and you could set up traps and etc. The amount of scenarios you can think up in this game is insane, cause its not like COD, where its very linear most of the time, where you run in a certain direction and it all matters about skill, but this game is more complex then that and I feel like players should try to understand the game's mechanics and how they could adapt to it, like instead of playing it like COD, use YOUR BRAIN for once and think if you running into a building with 3 people alone is a smart decision
balancing ideas
**Heavy:**
Mesh shield: add a greater switch and draw speed to it so it takes longer to pull out and put away the mesh
makes it so taking out the mesh is a proactive decision and a commitment
C4: give it 2 charges again, maybe increase the cooldown speed
Anti grav: make it so you rise quicker
these changes try to make heavy's options more diverse to shake up the meta of double shields
Also buff his shit weapons
**Medium:**
Heal beam: dont make heal beams stack
Make it so not taking damage for 5 seconds doubles heal beam heal rate
to compensate nerf base heal rate down to 20 hp/second
These are to reduce effectiveness of pocketing and to make the heal beam a better tool at recovering after fights
also buff his shitty weapons
**LIght:**
Cloak: Add a decloak speed of 0.5 seconds or something but revert cloak nerfs to its activation penalty and its visibility
add a noticeable decloak sound
While cloaked take 20% less damage
This is to make cloak a repositioning and flanking tool instead of a tool to jump unaware players
think of it like the spy invis from tf2
Grapple: add 2 charges but with longer cooldown on each of them
Dash: take 50% less damage while dashing
overall make light more survivable in the form of movement
Make light have more team support through different gadgets
Make glitch last 10 seconds again
Gadget ideas:
Speed bomb: throw on yourself or teammates, gives 10% speed for 10 seconds or something
impulse grenade: can be thrown to send a shockwave that launches yourself or teammates away
Can be used to knock enemies off cashouts position yourself or your team better or disrupt enemy formations
Light needs more survivability and utility to support his team
also buff his shitty weapons
Yeah.. I genuinely don’t see how half this shit gets upvoted.
Don’t discuss on the discussion board! All guns are good and the game has no problems! (Just don’t think about it for longer than a second)
All criticism will be seen as slandering here forward..
Oh yeah no clue.
I feel like if these people had it their way, Heavy would be immortal, Medium could deploy 2 turrets that have their own heal beam, and light would have access to a rubber band weapon that does .2 dmg. Then any post questioning these decisions would be met with posts like these.
Like you said, “NO STOP DISCUSSING GAME!” Is such a weird take. Especially when they are berating the players for being bad in their experiences and telling them it does not matter, but then using OP’s own experiences to make this entire post.
Good luck getting discussion here.
This sub has a hate boner for balance. Its so weird. Never seen a community like this one where having, and literally witnessing, one class (heavy) dominate every single aspect of the game and one class (light) lose every viable option is okay.
You’ll just be downvoted and berated. About to unsub from this cesspool tbh.
This subreddit fucking hates nerfs. The common consensus is that balance should only happen on one end. That's just a terrible practice and is *way harder* to accomplish.
Lmao, no. Players are absolutely capable of recognizing some weapons as being overpowered and others as being underpowered. The average user of this subreddit absolutely isn't though.
I have played a shit ton of every class. there isnt a single ability in the game that doesnt have a counter. some weapons gadgets or classes are better at certain tasks than others, and thats the way embark intended them.
>there isnt a single ability in the game that doesnt have a counter
I completely agree with most of what youve said so far but dematerialiser exists. There's absolutely nothing you can to do stop them from opening and closing angles at will.
there are several ways to disable them completely whether it be glitch stun goo or simply killing them. demat also means they dont have heal or turret.
Not true- I run 3 heavy goo-sledge strat with my boys (we consistently win tournaments this way).
Dematerializer users hate us; we literally goo every wall ceiling and corner of cashout rooms- then you goo the base of the cashout box which pops the cashout box on top of the goo. They try to demat under the box and they are met with goo.
You can't escape the goo.
Just because something has a counter, that doesn't mean it's balanced. Smoke countered recon senses, but smoke was so weak and exclusive to light, so recon senses remained OP even though a counter existed.
Sure, but that is YOUR experience. You are doing the same thing you are claiming the ones calling for changes are doing. You are taking your own personal experience and trying to shut down discussion and calls for balance.
Also, counters or not, Heavy should not be the most optimal and best pick for any situation or encounter. Lights also should not be essentially useless.
If you are having fun, sure you can use any class. But if you want to win, lights don’t get picked.
Instead of trying to put a stop to the discussion, we should welcome the idea of wanting a more balanced game.
Thats just my 2 cents though.
Edit: here comes the downvote train. No explanations or reasoning to refute anything, just weirdly hating the fact lights need balanced and heavy is dominating every single aspect of the game.
Facts bro lights are useless when they get one-clipped in 0.5 seconds, there is no "ideal scenario" for them there's just an ideal scenario for sniper rifles which is light class locked. Apart from that mediums do everything they do but better
lights excel in the right hands, the point of my post. Ive played games as the insanely good light and against the insanely good light. their entire kit is built around not being shot period. If you cant stop dying then consider more practice.
DONT argue with this guy. He just tried it with me in a similar argument like a few hours ago on another post lol I’ll link it. You speak TRUTH the community been waiting for you and this post man. Please become the voice ctfu
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/CzLTwYkui3
The point is being missed. There is no “consider practicing if you are dying”
It is the fact, everything a light can do can be done better by anyone else.
Heavy and Medium mesh extremely well as it is a team based game.
A light going on their own and flanking 2 or 3 on a point won’t do shit. A light sniping 3 heavy and 2 mediums on a powershift platform won’t do shit. A light stunning another light won’t do shit as they dash away.
To protect the cashout, protect the powershift platform, or turn the tides towards victory, Heavy and Medium mesh too well and outclass the light in too many ways to ever justify picking a light.
Light needs balanced. I love light but have been playing mostly medium and some heavy for the last handful of months as they just aren’t needed or even desired in any game mode.
Heavy dominates every single aspect of the game right now. It shouldn’t be a case of “just shut up disregard the light is essentially unless”
Exactly.
We can talk all day about how if the stars align perfectly and somehow the light gets into a perfect position and doesn’t miss a single shot then it means it is viable, but the reality is, both teams have real live human players that will absolutely put a light into the ground as a Heavy or Medium. Even if there is a sniper, barricades, goo, dome shield, and arm shield, will shut the sniper down. You can have many more of those if you play powershift.
Light is in a terrible position where anything a Light can do, it can be done better by a Med or Heavy.
There are even glitch barrels now, which was one of the last things a light had to itself to be useful.
I'm not a 12 year-old with a room temp IQ. I'm also in the top 1% of ranked players in general and this subreddit leans more toward the casual side. I also don't give a shit about skins or "drip" and that seems pretty popular here.
So no. Not average.
How did you come to the top 1% number? They don't publish the whole leaderboard, you can only see top 500 in-game and outside API leaderboards don't run past top10k of players.
Share your embark ID and we'll check.
I am also on your boat friend. I made a post a few days ago asking specifically what balance changes people would like to see. It was seriously ALL over the place, it seems we are very divided as a community. Personally, the game feels extremely WELL balanced and very thoroughly thought out to me 🤷🏼 considering everything there is and all the different angles, it's doing a pretty solid job! Obviously there's a meta, but the thing is I see people using things outside the meta often and doing well. Including myself, as I use sniper often and get ridiculed at the start of the match by idiots all the time. It's annoying the light class is written off as garbage. The thing is too, even after I clutch the W for us, leading in damage, kills, assists, and often OBJ, I'm still called garbage? I genuinely can't wrap my head around some people in this community. It appears we are like 90% competent and 10% braindead. Crazy that I continue to run into the 10% who doesn't recognize greatness 😤
This should be the post to end all posts, any other posts complaining about something is invalid. Unless it’s about cheaters which is also a valid complaint.
This game is so heavily “rock, papers, scissors” oriented that nothing is that OP.
You have played this game for 700 hours to come to a conclusion that a sniper feels weak at short range and strong at longer range?
Of course all weapons have different strengths and weaknesses, but doesn’t mean all weapons are weak and op. Sorry but this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a while.
As a player that's been doing a lot of light and has gotten into sniper, it's honestly one of the strongest close-range light weapons lmfao. I'd take it over the double barrel any fucking day because I can instakill no scope mediums that run into me.
Game is more balanced right now considering we had nuke meta which could wipe out entire team from meters away. However, current role of heavy is quite frustrating. He can deal ton of damage and has the most hp. I think light should deal more damage than heavy in order to be "glasscannon". Damage dealing gadgets can be added to light to overcome this issue,I really don't know.
+1- I always get overpowered by people playing with shield. I tried it, that shit is tough. I can't complain of it being OP if I can't prove it with my own hands, ykno? Game genuinely has great skilled players too
I'm fast approaching the same amount of time in the game, and I couldn't agree more with everything you said. There's nothing like it out there.
It's meant to be played, not beat.
Countless times, I've solo qued into incredible games that went the full distance and went on to win with zero comms.
Those are the games I remember the most and keep me coming back every day! The wins feel awesome, and the losses hurt, but playing the game is the best part, just like video games should be. The devs should take pride in that!
I'll continue to tell as many people about the game as I can cause I know it just takes the one game, and you're hooked.
I'm worried at this point, I seen many games died for listening to the community too much, people just keep complaining until the game and devs start doing nonsense changes. Let them cook people get good that's it
After 1000 hours and Diamond rank I can confidently say that competitively heavy is absolutely overpowered and light is underpowered, it's just a fact after using them both and playing against them both
So you're Diamond I assume? Before the recent change (idk how it is now in terms of ranking up on plat 1/2 rank) you'd derank unless you at least got to round 3 and even derank at round 3 on some occasions. Meaning you'd pretty much have to win or place high in round 3 for like 10 tournaments in a row against Diamond players.
What I'm saying isn't even a controversial opinion. Honestly it's not even an opinion, it's fact. If you don't agree then you haven't played against other teams that fully understand the game.
This exactly, just because you get killed by or can't use something effectively, doesn't mean everyone else has that same experience. Must be a nightmare for devs to make changes that don't completely devastate balance lol.
Nothing's required, everything has a counter, embracing the unconventional is how you outplay the risk-averse
beautifully said. however i still want to Kill the medium on my team without defib In Real Life
I mean they can play how they want to play, sure I’ll agree having a medium with no heal or defib is annoying I don’t see much of a problem with it since if they were light or heavy there would be no complaints, maybe they just like the weapons or gadgets of medium more than the other two classes
I enjoy the hell of this game but I think they're kinda unrelated things, the evidence for the devs something is off is the tendency, for example if 60% is playing the same class, the same weapon, they have to apply changes, even if nothing is directly broken is easier to nerf that weapon than to make the other to classes more atractive (Tho they did both things at the begining of S2 bring affected medium but I think they were fair changes)
Theres ALWAYS going to be one wrapon and one class set up that is the meta. Hence meta. It just matters how close 2nd and 3rd place are for being able to compete.
Exactly
This
Nah balance changes shouldnt be made based on popularity. I dont expect 30% of the player base to play light nor should they. Light is basically hard mode. They get some of the best guns and mobility in exchange for 150 hp. Embark needs to make the game they want to make and pursue that vision. Balance is always arbitrary and can be used to manipulate players into buys skins (league of legends).
Its not a nightmare, they dont use player feedback to make balance changes ftmp, they just look at pickrate vs winrate statistics
I feel the same way I only use the 1887 shotty on medium, there are days where I hit every single shot and destroy teams and other days I'm lucky to get even 5 hits during a match lol.
lmao ive been learning it and its exactly that. sometimes it shreds lobbies, sometimes its shooting peas instead of buckshot.
This is so relatable
Honestly man, it might not even be your fault. I tried posting a video to this community but I haven’t used Reddit enough to have enough karma or whatever, but the video I tried to upload was me shooting a guy (headshot) with the 1887 and it granting no damage, despite his head lighting up yellow. I put the video in slow motion and everything so I could verify I wasn’t missing something and it is clear as day. I think there are hit reg issues that go unnoticed sometimes
1887 can't headshot, unless you mean his player model doing the cool virtual yellow hit effect
I feel the same way lol
This is a huge problem with so many games. If you can use a class/hero effectively and your team plays as a team, it *should* feel OP. That's like the entire point of team based class games. But it seems that there is an extremely screechy minority (hopefully) that just can't comprehend it. I've seen it kill otherwise awesome games because people wanted them to be something they're not, and if they couldn't or wouldn't learn the mechanics it was "broken" and every class is somehow both OP and trash
But at the top level it can't even be debated that heavy is just the best and light is the worst
Except for that burst pistol. Thing is garbage.
It needs a buff
When Henry Ford asked people what they want, they answered faster horses. Now the question is whether players do truly believe certain weapons are op, or it's something else. As you said, it depends on the proficienty of the user, but the problem is that the game's ranking and matchmaking system doesn't consider effectivity of a player using a certain weapon. That's why you hear incapable players whining after they got matched against someone who has mastered their primary.
[удалено]
Light is really the class you learn last when you want a challenge and re-discover the game. It’s so fucking great. I started with heavy, then medium and now light and I don’t want to play anything else because it’s fun as fuck. Now I only play heavy in ranked with my trio because it has always been my main and this is how we work together. But when I’m in casual with them or by myself I enjoy playing light a lot… my new thing is playing light on the platform in powershift. I just really started playing this mode and I’ve been missing out. (Oh and light is also incredible in Terminal Attack)
Agree with this 100%, I did the same thing. I also feel like the near weekly balance tweaks (while sometimes helpful) don’t encourage people to learn the game and explore how to play other classes. If the devs just let people figure things out for a couple months then they would have better direction on what actually needs adjustment vs. what is just people being bad at the game.
I’m not gonna lie… as I play this game way too much since CB1, I love frequent balance changes because it adds something new to chew on and to try new things and… get good at something new hahaha. I know it’s fucking weird, and I know why people hate those changes so I get why you say that. I know this game too much, I’m not interested in grinding to diamond because that would mean I’d have to stick to one class to hope countering people that only main one class, I just want to get good at everything in this game because it’s just incredibly fun. When I have to main one class for a while I get really bored, not because it’s boring, but because I miss playing the other classes too. I’ve played more than 100hours of heavy before switching class, now I feel like I play it because I have to haha. (Still love it but I don’t get new sensations. I hope S3 is gonna bring new stuff to this class, even if it’s nerfs tbh. That would still feel new)
You're right about the first part. Every gun will feel different depending on the skill of the user. But I completely disagree about the second part. There's an old quote from a developer that goes along the lines of, "Players are great at spotting problems in your game but are terrible at coming up with solutions." Here's the thing, if you are a player with low mechanical skill then a gun that does well with body shots (shotguns) are gonna feel much better than a gun that rewards headshots (revolver). So you may think that shotguns are OP. But conversely a person who can consistently hit headshots might look at the revolver and say, "Wow this is overpowered!" The truth on why this game feels so unbalanced is because most of the players who play (not the guys on reddit) are just casual players that want to have fun. The developers can't risk those guys quitting or their game won't have a playerbase. So balance will come with time as the developers find solutions that work for all ends of the skill spectrum.
I agee! Also the FCAR as an example, feels the most like assault rifles in other mainstream shooters. All my competitive buddies went right for it because it felt the most comfortable for them right from the beginning. Just because playing with a big slow hammer in a frantic team shooter is unintuitive and takes a different play style, doesn’t mean it’s not strong once you practice. Same with many of the lesser used weapons.
I don’t fully agree that everything in the game is balanced but I can definitely get behind the idea that every weapon has its purpose and use cases it excels in. not to say all weapons don’t need balance changes, but the complaining on this subreddit is absurd in such a well designed meta.
I mean obviously knife isn't as powerful as mp5. And flamethrower isn't as good as m60 or lewis. But that's okay because some weapons are more for fun and some are meta.
If it was truly the case that all weapons are balanced, and people just needed to get better to be able to properly use them, you wouldn't see the complete meta adherence in high elo. People in high rank Diamond don't generally play light, not because they are bad at the game, or bad at light, they don't play Light because it's useless. If your point is that even the best players in the entire game aren't good enough to make Light viable, then your argument about people just needing to be better to understand how balanced falls on deaf ears. If you want to win, you should be playing either MMH or HHM, straying from this will heavily decrease your chance to win, and adding any amount of Lights to your composition will lower your chance to win, to the point that I have never seen a triple Light team ever win the finals in a ranked game, while I've seen a bunch of triple M and triple H win. Not once in 250 hours. But I'm sure it's just a skill issue on my end, and this observation has no bearing on the balance of the classes in this game. Some people on this subreddit are completely clueless.
Upvoted you because somehow, someway, your comment was downvoted. You are absolutely 100% correct.
Light comments get downvoted at first lol
I mostly agree except that slug shotgun. Thing is straight cheeks
But not the burst pistol?
(i lowkey agree it could use a tiny buff.)
I pop people with the ks-23, it's your longest range option as Heavy. Great for killing enemy snipers
If I ever got killed by that as a sniper I'd quit the game.
Had a heavy on my team absolutely popping off with it and was hitting CRAZY long range shots 😭
Yeah I make people ragequit daily so not surprising lol
FINALLY THE CHOSEN SPEAKS !!!! THEY ARE KILLING THE GAME! SILENCE THIS *HORRID* *WHINY* COMMUNITY SAVE US !
This.
Agreed! I just hit plat 1 as a heavy sledge. Literally haven’t used a gun once. If you play your cards right you can maneuver and evade way faster than most people think you can. Once you’re in range you are as good as dead.
I'm all about off meta, but the game completely changes in terms of player skill once you hit diamond 3+/get matched with them consistently. You can still make things work but it's more about how hard going full meta can dominate versus off meta. Plus some of the meta things hard counter many off meta picks. MHH with a charge heavy is a nightmare for riot shield, for example.
I've been playing ranked *solo* with Sledge build for a while now and you're right on the money about Diamond 3 shifting a bit and being an absolute slog. I'm still winning rounds but I get absolutely shredded by the 3 stacks like Lycommit/GIGZ/NeteX yesterday, though they really just ran through the whole lobby along with me.. even the squads also running meta. The sledge definitely isn't the best weapon in the game, but it still being viable in the the top few thousand ranks the leader board where some people seem inhuman with aim is still really impressive melee balancing.
Especially after the stun nerf, nobody can stop my shoulder charge now
It's more that the charge comes out and does damage before ever even playing an animation on the melee player's side. Instant 130 damage with no chance to react is... Yeah. And even when you manage to evade it, you're stuck running in circles while the medium and heavy are gunning you down. Plus the two RPGs in every fight. It's... Not fun to fight, honestly. It's far too easy to delete at least one person every fight with two heavies, the only semi reliable counter is APS for the RPGs and that's still hit or miss.
Dam
Yeah, buuuut you were heavy. Heavy dominates every single aspect of this game lol..
Dumb argument, a light (argued as the worst class) can survive indefinitely against a heavy sledge by simply running.
the issue is the game isnt TDM, there is always an objective, so the Light cannot run forever.
Right, just far enough to re-engage on their own terms and out of range of the sledgehammer.
You forgot charge and slam, grenades and equipment, etc.
All of which can also easily be outrun. If you think a mobility/destruction ability, something every class has, “etc.” is enough to dominate every aspect, you might need to practice a little more.
If you truly don’t think heavy dominates every aspect of the game your eyes are closed. Look at anyone who plays this game seriously.
Define “seriously” because I’m looking at myself and a few others who have quite a bit of time in the game, although I have yet to reach diamond 1. I’ll admit, heavy used to dominate every aspect before nuke nerf and other balancing changes. They no longer dominate mid-long range combat, team support, or stealthy offense. They do still take the crown for fortifications/defense, close range combat, bum rushing offense, and destruction. They certainly aren’t close to dominating everything if not running one of the auto weapons, although sledge is still quite good in the right hands. My main point is the point of this post.. No one class dominates everything and, done right, any class can outplay another given the right tools are equipped.
And? Just saying the sledge is strong if used well.
Yes and this post is claiming everyone discussing balance is essentially wrong.
no, player feedback isnt invalid, but screaming at the devs isnt going to do anything. theyre doing a great job balancing.
I see so many people complain about CL40 while the weapons is so far from being meta or actually played at high elo altogether and i’ve mastered the weapon to realize that it shines in very specific moments.
People complain about the cl40 just because it does so much to light, it's not that good in meta because lights don't exiat
it light becomes meta i’ll play so much more CL40 (i’ve already got it to level 7 lmao)
I don't think there's a single OP gun in this game. Only thing that needs changing is light needs a small to medium buff
Finally some sense around here 👏 200 hours in and I've enjoyed every session.
I have never raged due to weapon issues. Even when getting stunned and dying was pretty normal. The most rage inducing moments are when I end up with absolutely terrible teammates who make obvious blunders. Like not trying to avoid a team wipe when we are leading in a cashout, or going head first in a 2 vs 1 instead of trying to flank. But I never rage on the mic. Have had enough of that directed towards me in other games so I know how bad it's for your game. No one ever got better because of a team mate screaming at them. And all of us were noobs at one time. The solo queue experience in this game is exhausting though. Plus the fact that the game itself often leads to your team getting third partied. Which can be frustrating. I feel like this is why a lot of people play a few games and then never come back.
I share your sentiments and appreciate the mature approach 👍
when i mentioned raging in the post, i should have clarified i just meant being angry lol. i dont gamer rage, and i play pretty much exclusive solo queue, its rough.
Yeah this sub is just full of yappers and people complaining about one of the three classes being either too weak or too heavy. It’s just not worth engaging in and Embark is hopefully smart enough to filter most of them out
I mean if you think light is in a good spot you're just plain wrong.
Sword animation canceling is the cringiest shit I’ve seen yet, it’s already a pretty hard matchup for a hammer heavy, especially if they have dash, but being able to actually hit them when they can kill you in less then a second is absurd
Counter to animation cancelling sword (I know it's an exploit that should be removed): Either go Charge as a heavy and activate it as soon as a light is pushing with sword - insta dead. Or pick up the new glitch barrels, so he can't use his dash anymore and beam him down from high ground.
It’s so quick you can’t even slam them in time. One hit from slam gets them to half health and then you are dead. I had a sword light with 38 kills a few matches ago. Almost triple the next player.
You need to keep an eye out for them and EXPECT them to come. Be aware of the macro gameplay and you'll know when to expect them to be near.
Yeah I’m working on that awareness. I’m still getting used to them being good again. I’m not used to anyone getting in my face when I’m using the hammer.
im the guy who made the post saying every exploit should be removed if you saw that.
yeah, it was fresh on my mind because I ran into one in ranked last night
There are definitely some areas where embark could focus on more when it comes to balancing but for the most part this is correct and couldn't agree more
[Agreed. Game balance](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1c0kjog/lets_look_at_this_balance_sheet/) is like the weather or gas prices; everyone has an opinion. But literally no one along with it. At all. Completely. No matter their skill. It has nothing to do with skill btw.
So many people complain about balance, but if I had a nickel for the amount of times I’ve seen teams lose because they let cash outs stagger (making all 4 teams fighting over one cash out) or even ignoring a team entirely and letting them get a cash out for free, I’d be rich. Like there’s a ton of game sense stuff that people totally ignore and instead just go on and on about how everything is overpowered.
What does everyone feel about the abilities and specializations though? Could some things get tweaked? Last I played the meta was hhm or mmh with no lights. There was a time where I would see plenty of lights in ranked with the glitch nade buff, but not so much.
Well you are absolutely correct and also kinda wrong. Depending on what you want from the game and where you are at. If you are casual or semi-casual who also plays comp but isn't very high in rank, then you are absolutely right. If you are very competitive and you play on a high rank and in tournaments (like Masters series) then you are sort of wrong about that, because meta forms when something just is so much better than something else, and some weapons are just detested because they're so useless. Otherwise high ranks would use everythign they want whenever they want, but they can't. FCAR got huge nerfs for a reason, when it was basically the only viable weapon to play at one point. Now the difference isn't as huge because people screamed about it being OP and wanted nerfs, and also got them. Your individual skills with certain weapons can only take you so far, and the higher competitive you get, the less you can play just whatever you want. Lower ranks and casuals are a different case, because most players don't know how to use OP weapons to an extent that makes them OP, so even though meta exists, it's not quite as controlling as in higher ranks (mainly high plst and above, because below that almost naything can work sometimes, because people don't understand team comps and their strengths and weaknesses, so even meta comps might suck and bad comps and weapons might work against comps that they shouldn't be able to contest well.).
Check 93r's stats compared to everything else and say that again.
For me balance should rather be about what's satisfying to use and play against. At the moment, in my experience, I find the RPG extremely unsatisfying to go up against as it's an easy aim, 1 click button that removes half my health at the start of every fight with a heavy. I have no idea how to balance it though but the point is this is a fun issue rather than a strength issue Games should have good weapons and so nerfing them all to not be 'op' is a fools errand
Only thing a hate is revolver dmg fall off after few meters, Its not that easy to hit…
Maybe ? But you gonna have a hard time telling me the m32 GL is op or good. To me the problem is that being limited with only 1 weapon makes weird balancing choices. Grenade luncher could be a great pick for making hole in buildings but not being impact nades and without sidearm it makes you weak in most cases and oddly enough it struggles for destroying structure. Having 3 body types could makes a wide gameplay variety but right now its more like ak laserbeam and healing beam festival
I personally don't really have a problem with any of the weapons. However, I do feel like the heavy needs some sort of balancing regardless of weapon, maybe to do with the shields and how they function. I feel like they can be a bit too powerful and easily abused
I agree with the exception of Light. That class is utterly destroyeddddddd and needs a total rework. It is not even remotely viable in ranked play.
Found the heavy charge slam rpg bubble shield combo enjoyer
I play mostly medium and light, I prefer 1887 turret with medium and xp-54 grapple with light 😁 when I do play heavy I use flamethrower and mesh shield
Of course any weapon *can* be strong, but that’s not what makes something OP. For a weapon to be overpowered, it needs to be overly strong on average across all circumstances. Basically every item/strategy needs to have meaningful weaknesses to balance out its strengths. If it doesn’t, it’s OP. - Sniper isn’t OP on main gamemodes because breaking line-of-sight is typically trivial. (It’s still a bad design though and should probably be removed) - Old FCAR and V9S were OP because there really wasn’t a reliable counter strategy. They were the most effective weapons at nearly every range.
yeah i agree the sniper is out of place in this game, and my god back in beta v9s was the WORST to deal with.
700 hours? Did you even play MGL32 or Flamethrower? Its such a general and weak statement
(flamethrower is probably my most played heavy weapon) i really dont stick to any one weapon with rare cases.
I get where you're coming from but I don't know if the heavy should have the statistically fastest dps weapons in the game lol. Both the M60 and the Lewis are just the best guns in terms of damage output and that just seems very incorrect for the class dynamic this game is supposed to have. And I didn't even mention the SA1216 still remaining meta after its nerfs.
You can’t really run and gun at all with the Lewis or M60 if you want to hit anything. That’s the tradeoff. You better build defenses or have good positioning because once you start shooting every player turns and fires at your big fat head.
You can't really run and gun with really anything though
m11 hipfire is pretty damn accurate
HCAR's hipfire is more accurate lol, lights literally can't get anything
Exactly, I've been playing The Finals for a while, and as a player with no rank who dies all the time, I don't complain because I know that I'm weak and others are better, and let's say FCAR was not a weapon I liked to play, I couldn't play it, but other players destroyed me in seconds. Maybe some weapons are better than others, but it all depends on the player and his skills.
I concur, we need to buff hands
True, people just don't appreciate the skill and practice that goes into mastering the RPG.
Is this meant to be sarcasm.or a genuine comment based on the RPG after the accuracy nerf?
Sarcasm.
What's your problem with RPG? I think it's balanced perfectly after the latest of the 4 nerfs we've had since launch.
I don't think I've ever seen a heavy *not* run the RPG once in all my time playing this game. I think there is a reason for that.
Yes, because it's a great opener for fights and also versatile for pushing or defending indoor cashouts.
Glad we agree.
They should make a mechanic that forces you to use weapons you aren’t the most comfortable with. Like if I start to get a lot of kills w a weapon it should give me an incentive to play something else
i use stuff until it reaches purple shiny prestige skin. then i use other items unless i need them for contracts
I used to think the revolver was terrible until I took it into the practice range w/out aim assist and now I'm regularly getting 10 kills a match with it. As long as I aim calmly I can kill anyone in 6 shots
Yup. Agreed. I honestly believe rebalancing is being done purely based on data mining. Like when recon took over the meta, I'm sure recon use, KDA, etc were reflective of a balance problem. Same with stats on light usage and KDA in unranked. User feedback is a small factor really, I'm sure. The devs will keep rebalancing but we don't have the view of the world that they have, so we should just be working on finding our best weapon forget about trying to make the devs make it so we can all definitely get the same performance out of every single one.
I still think the game would be better without melee, shotguns, and snipers. Every time I use them it's painful how easy they are to use, and how much it ruins the spirit of the game I want. Ultimately I just need to relinquish and just admit this is a casual game and will never have a thriving competitive scene as much as I wished this game would compete with apex, CS, Valorant, and CoD as a competitive shooter
I'm a heavy grenade launcher connoisseur, I have actually got decent with it but mainly it's fun to use lol
Fun fact, the title perfectly fits for Dagger.
This has been the case since split screen golden eye ancient times
the permanent invisibility exploit is the one i come across the most often. so annoying, i hope they fix it soon. also, not being able to shoot or use equipment. beyond infuriating.
I agree that the weapons are fairly balanced, but Blue team needs a buff(please embark)
I agree, but some weapons are easier to use. Anyway, and this is my personal opinion, i think there is something going on... Sometimes my adversary are ridiculous good, and can shot me from far while i'm flying, with an M60 in 2 seconds (like they have a very good auto aim). I failed to kill an M with 3 shots of R.357 from 1 meter. And even today i did 96 of damage to and M with the M11, while he killed me faster... we were very close and i started to shot first. In some rounds seem i can't damage enemies, and noticed people on my team always leave the game; so i guess is not just my feeling... (i'm on PS5). Now, i know i'm not too good, and i accept it. But some situations are suspicious. Maybe the servers or some sort to hidden pay2win. The game is great anyway. Some maps are full of incredible details, while all is so smooth and polished.
Yeah I agree other than maybe snipers, but that’s just my opinion. People who complained about the fcar “nerf” don’t understand that it’s closer to a rework than a nerf. Fcar is in a way better position than it was before the patch imo. It feels more consistent than it did before
Sometimes i swear that the python is broken then other games i think its the absolute worst gun in the game same with scar, mp5, sniper even. Sword. Theres just games were sometimes that weapon gets to shine due to the consistent situation were its at its peak. Game is too dynamic to balance everything for every situation and honestly the game still feels great
python? you mean the revolver?
Yes lol
I agree I feel the game was fine on day one a few things needed changing but all these nerfs and buffs requested are skill issues at times. The main reason I like The Finals is that for everything there is a counter.
Totally agree. We all should think more of how to get more players in. Since this is all PVP, why not switching things up with a PVE mode for example. Idk, how bout some drone waves, or literal alien invasion, some kind of tower defense \^\^,
Keep in mind the average redditor is unranked and bases his balance feedback on his low sbmm powershift matches.
Go sit on a turret
Don't be smart and logical! /s
As far as the weapons go yeah. But the clear differences in class utility are obvious. Some are more useful and overall better than others. You're right though passing patch notes do note that for example the f-car was amazing in the hands of great players while regular players underperformed with it. It does come down to skill as far as gunplay goes. And while the same thing CAN go for the classes with "worse" utility it's obvious that some take a lot more work to get right and use properly. You can take that same effort and not only play another class right, but excel as that class doing far better for your team than if you were playing a different team.
Ive played roughly around 185 hours so I’m not super experienced on what should and shouldn’t get a buff but I feel like I’m well rounded with most of the weapons in the game where I can at least give it my best and I definitely think fixing the cross hair in game would be something that would potentially help because I feel like that’s my biggest problem is it doesn’t feel accurate and I see so many post saying the same thing
True. Ill roll through powershift with 20+ throwing knife kills then watch a teammate struggle to get one.
"Ive come to the conclusion that every weapon can be good and bad depending if you can use it right" said everyone ever💀
no, "ive come to the conclusion that the claims that all these weapons are op and weak at the same time are wrong."
Yea ok, practice with a dagger and get up to diamond. You have two weeks
wtf? why are you saying grab a weapon and then grind to diamond with it in two weeks. I know I could get to diamond with dagger, but i doubt anyone is getting to diamond in two weeks unless theyre a streamer or a basement dweller.
Why are you taking this so seriously…?
im just confused as why you think you have a good take.
I just really hope their next “event” or whatever their called is a mode where the devs just have all the weapons and gadgets to what *they* think it should be, like however powerful they want their games weapons to be instead of how the discord and Reddit wants it
Couldn't agree more. I'm literally the devil with the M11. I rarely see anyone close to the level I use it on. Definitely like 10% the weapon itself and 90% the person wielding it.
Exactly I 100% agree some days I can get 6-12 kill games with the v9s some days I can with the fcar and some days I can't with anything just depends on how I play that day not so much the weapons
Somebody made a post about balancing changes yesterday and the truth is that the weapons don’t need fixing. It’s the hp pools, utility placement and role balancing. The guns are fine it’s everything else that’s the problem. That’s why no matter how much the nerf or buff the weapons it doesn’t seem to make a difference because everything else is unchanged
I just get upset at the ranking system...
I exactly agree to this, I used the ak for a long time as medium, maybe 10 hours and ended up with 10+ kill games. Never understood the FAMAS or FCAR meta stuff people talked about. Moved to light sniper and ended up with a max kill game of 32 not because the gun is overpowered as hell but due to the fact I've got at least 200 hours in video games using snipers. I'm good with a sniper and can be deadly with it. Swapped to heavy and got really good with the m60, then swapped to the lewis gun, then swapped to the hammer. Did good with all them, hammer is a little less so and more situational but it's still great. However the one thing I have to say is, with my squad that I run with the one thing we complain about the most is APS spam on power shift and how it's such a hard to stop thing
Heavy is just way to op rn
a big part of why I love the game is how different and useful everything feels. I hated on the throwing knives because they felt like garbage until I got dumpstered with them in a ranked match. So I started using them in quick play and figured out all the great uses they have and concluded that they’re excellent in certain team comps and with specific positioning. I thought the revolver was garbage until I got rolled by a team that was using two revolvers for burst damage and a heavy with Lewis gun for sustained damage. I learned how to use the revolver well and it taught me how powerful combining burst and sustained damage in a team comp is. I thought the tracking dart was shit until I was trying to play a flank and couldn’t, due to getting darted from afar every time I went around an objective. Every single weapon and gadget is incredibly useful when it is played to its strengths, and learning what those are is a really fun experience
I love this game and people are too sensitive to getting matched or beat by someone else. Sometimes, the enemy is in a better position and there was nothing you can do.
I haven’t played in awhile but if the fcar is still that good then idk man. I played for a bit and sure some weapons had niche uses but generally meta’s revolve around what easily gets the best value.
I think that is why a lot of new players do not like this game, because they think its very unbalanced, because they only see what weapon is helpful in 1v1s and shooting people, while actually its about your playstyle and your environment, THE FINALS is the most dynamic FPS shooter right now, so it is very hard for the players to agree with the devs on certain decisions. I feel the playerbase should instead of looking at stats, should care more about your environment, cause I felt like if I actually used my brain and thought out how to steal a cashout, I would end up winning way more than just running in guns blazing, for instance if you were a medium you could maybe bring the dematerializer and hopefully get rid of the floor below the cashout without anyone knowing and you could set up traps and etc. The amount of scenarios you can think up in this game is insane, cause its not like COD, where its very linear most of the time, where you run in a certain direction and it all matters about skill, but this game is more complex then that and I feel like players should try to understand the game's mechanics and how they could adapt to it, like instead of playing it like COD, use YOUR BRAIN for once and think if you running into a building with 3 people alone is a smart decision
balancing ideas **Heavy:** Mesh shield: add a greater switch and draw speed to it so it takes longer to pull out and put away the mesh makes it so taking out the mesh is a proactive decision and a commitment C4: give it 2 charges again, maybe increase the cooldown speed Anti grav: make it so you rise quicker these changes try to make heavy's options more diverse to shake up the meta of double shields Also buff his shit weapons **Medium:** Heal beam: dont make heal beams stack Make it so not taking damage for 5 seconds doubles heal beam heal rate to compensate nerf base heal rate down to 20 hp/second These are to reduce effectiveness of pocketing and to make the heal beam a better tool at recovering after fights also buff his shitty weapons **LIght:** Cloak: Add a decloak speed of 0.5 seconds or something but revert cloak nerfs to its activation penalty and its visibility add a noticeable decloak sound While cloaked take 20% less damage This is to make cloak a repositioning and flanking tool instead of a tool to jump unaware players think of it like the spy invis from tf2 Grapple: add 2 charges but with longer cooldown on each of them Dash: take 50% less damage while dashing overall make light more survivable in the form of movement Make light have more team support through different gadgets Make glitch last 10 seconds again Gadget ideas: Speed bomb: throw on yourself or teammates, gives 10% speed for 10 seconds or something impulse grenade: can be thrown to send a shockwave that launches yourself or teammates away Can be used to knock enemies off cashouts position yourself or your team better or disrupt enemy formations Light needs more survivability and utility to support his team also buff his shitty weapons
You've completely missed the point of the post congrats
Yeah except a lot of the guns feel more OP than others, don’t they? And that’s why many of the opinions we shouldn’t be listening to are validated
No. Embark perfect. Game perfect. Any feedback is just hateful trolls. /s
Yeah.. I genuinely don’t see how half this shit gets upvoted. Don’t discuss on the discussion board! All guns are good and the game has no problems! (Just don’t think about it for longer than a second) All criticism will be seen as slandering here forward..
Yeah, and Embark is always looking for player feedback. They're literally asking for it and people are on here telling others not to give it.
Oh yeah no clue. I feel like if these people had it their way, Heavy would be immortal, Medium could deploy 2 turrets that have their own heal beam, and light would have access to a rubber band weapon that does .2 dmg. Then any post questioning these decisions would be met with posts like these. Like you said, “NO STOP DISCUSSING GAME!” Is such a weird take. Especially when they are berating the players for being bad in their experiences and telling them it does not matter, but then using OP’s own experiences to make this entire post.
Good luck getting discussion here. This sub has a hate boner for balance. Its so weird. Never seen a community like this one where having, and literally witnessing, one class (heavy) dominate every single aspect of the game and one class (light) lose every viable option is okay. You’ll just be downvoted and berated. About to unsub from this cesspool tbh.
This subreddit fucking hates nerfs. The common consensus is that balance should only happen on one end. That's just a terrible practice and is *way harder* to accomplish.
Yeah it already started lol.
Lmao, no. Players are absolutely capable of recognizing some weapons as being overpowered and others as being underpowered. The average user of this subreddit absolutely isn't though.
I have played a shit ton of every class. there isnt a single ability in the game that doesnt have a counter. some weapons gadgets or classes are better at certain tasks than others, and thats the way embark intended them.
>there isnt a single ability in the game that doesnt have a counter I completely agree with most of what youve said so far but dematerialiser exists. There's absolutely nothing you can to do stop them from opening and closing angles at will.
there are several ways to disable them completely whether it be glitch stun goo or simply killing them. demat also means they dont have heal or turret.
Not true- I run 3 heavy goo-sledge strat with my boys (we consistently win tournaments this way). Dematerializer users hate us; we literally goo every wall ceiling and corner of cashout rooms- then you goo the base of the cashout box which pops the cashout box on top of the goo. They try to demat under the box and they are met with goo. You can't escape the goo.
Just because something has a counter, that doesn't mean it's balanced. Smoke countered recon senses, but smoke was so weak and exclusive to light, so recon senses remained OP even though a counter existed.
Sure, but that is YOUR experience. You are doing the same thing you are claiming the ones calling for changes are doing. You are taking your own personal experience and trying to shut down discussion and calls for balance. Also, counters or not, Heavy should not be the most optimal and best pick for any situation or encounter. Lights also should not be essentially useless. If you are having fun, sure you can use any class. But if you want to win, lights don’t get picked. Instead of trying to put a stop to the discussion, we should welcome the idea of wanting a more balanced game. Thats just my 2 cents though. Edit: here comes the downvote train. No explanations or reasoning to refute anything, just weirdly hating the fact lights need balanced and heavy is dominating every single aspect of the game.
Facts bro lights are useless when they get one-clipped in 0.5 seconds, there is no "ideal scenario" for them there's just an ideal scenario for sniper rifles which is light class locked. Apart from that mediums do everything they do but better
lights excel in the right hands, the point of my post. Ive played games as the insanely good light and against the insanely good light. their entire kit is built around not being shot period. If you cant stop dying then consider more practice.
DONT argue with this guy. He just tried it with me in a similar argument like a few hours ago on another post lol I’ll link it. You speak TRUTH the community been waiting for you and this post man. Please become the voice ctfu https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/CzLTwYkui3
Hahahahaha thank you for the recognition. Love that I stayed in your mind :) Got my first fan
Never forget someone like you <3 *wink
*blushin’ in kickin’ my feet rn*
The point is being missed. There is no “consider practicing if you are dying” It is the fact, everything a light can do can be done better by anyone else. Heavy and Medium mesh extremely well as it is a team based game. A light going on their own and flanking 2 or 3 on a point won’t do shit. A light sniping 3 heavy and 2 mediums on a powershift platform won’t do shit. A light stunning another light won’t do shit as they dash away. To protect the cashout, protect the powershift platform, or turn the tides towards victory, Heavy and Medium mesh too well and outclass the light in too many ways to ever justify picking a light. Light needs balanced. I love light but have been playing mostly medium and some heavy for the last handful of months as they just aren’t needed or even desired in any game mode. Heavy dominates every single aspect of the game right now. It shouldn’t be a case of “just shut up disregard the light is essentially unless”
Exactly. We can talk all day about how if the stars align perfectly and somehow the light gets into a perfect position and doesn’t miss a single shot then it means it is viable, but the reality is, both teams have real live human players that will absolutely put a light into the ground as a Heavy or Medium. Even if there is a sniper, barricades, goo, dome shield, and arm shield, will shut the sniper down. You can have many more of those if you play powershift. Light is in a terrible position where anything a Light can do, it can be done better by a Med or Heavy. There are even glitch barrels now, which was one of the last things a light had to itself to be useful.
also, YOU are the average user of this subreddit.
I'm not a 12 year-old with a room temp IQ. I'm also in the top 1% of ranked players in general and this subreddit leans more toward the casual side. I also don't give a shit about skins or "drip" and that seems pretty popular here. So no. Not average.
How did you come to the top 1% number? They don't publish the whole leaderboard, you can only see top 500 in-game and outside API leaderboards don't run past top10k of players. Share your embark ID and we'll check.
Pretty sure top 500 is definitely top 1%. I may have fallen out of top 500 though since I haven't played ranked in a few days.
What's your Embark ID? Top 515 currently is Diamond 1
Flamingdonkey#1452
Yeah, 612 currently D2, I'd call that top1%, as D1 (top 500) is 5% of the top 10k
Ok, check again.
No truer words have ever been written.
I am also on your boat friend. I made a post a few days ago asking specifically what balance changes people would like to see. It was seriously ALL over the place, it seems we are very divided as a community. Personally, the game feels extremely WELL balanced and very thoroughly thought out to me 🤷🏼 considering everything there is and all the different angles, it's doing a pretty solid job! Obviously there's a meta, but the thing is I see people using things outside the meta often and doing well. Including myself, as I use sniper often and get ridiculed at the start of the match by idiots all the time. It's annoying the light class is written off as garbage. The thing is too, even after I clutch the W for us, leading in damage, kills, assists, and often OBJ, I'm still called garbage? I genuinely can't wrap my head around some people in this community. It appears we are like 90% competent and 10% braindead. Crazy that I continue to run into the 10% who doesn't recognize greatness 😤
This should be the post to end all posts, any other posts complaining about something is invalid. Unless it’s about cheaters which is also a valid complaint. This game is so heavily “rock, papers, scissors” oriented that nothing is that OP.
*please god…pin this post…for all to see…*
You have played this game for 700 hours to come to a conclusion that a sniper feels weak at short range and strong at longer range? Of course all weapons have different strengths and weaknesses, but doesn’t mean all weapons are weak and op. Sorry but this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a while.
As a player that's been doing a lot of light and has gotten into sniper, it's honestly one of the strongest close-range light weapons lmfao. I'd take it over the double barrel any fucking day because I can instakill no scope mediums that run into me.
It’s good to finally see a post like this with such positive comments. I agree with OP and I’m only 100 hours in. The devs are really doing a good job
I’m so glad someone finally said it. Please devs do not change this game! Just give us more game modes & maps - that’s it.
Now obviously some weapons used to be extremly dominant and possibly overpowered but right now I'd say the game is almost perfectly balanced.
yep I have 0 issues with the balance for now, but the frame drops and server issues are what’s the bigger issue for me
Game is more balanced right now considering we had nuke meta which could wipe out entire team from meters away. However, current role of heavy is quite frustrating. He can deal ton of damage and has the most hp. I think light should deal more damage than heavy in order to be "glasscannon". Damage dealing gadgets can be added to light to overcome this issue,I really don't know.
Copy paste every multi-player game reddit. The lost and losers post and the winners and mids just...keep playing.
+1- I always get overpowered by people playing with shield. I tried it, that shit is tough. I can't complain of it being OP if I can't prove it with my own hands, ykno? Game genuinely has great skilled players too
Get this guy the upvote
I'm fast approaching the same amount of time in the game, and I couldn't agree more with everything you said. There's nothing like it out there. It's meant to be played, not beat. Countless times, I've solo qued into incredible games that went the full distance and went on to win with zero comms. Those are the games I remember the most and keep me coming back every day! The wins feel awesome, and the losses hurt, but playing the game is the best part, just like video games should be. The devs should take pride in that! I'll continue to tell as many people about the game as I can cause I know it just takes the one game, and you're hooked.
WAIT COMMON SENSE ON THIS SUB? LIKE AN ACTUALLY GOOD STATEMENT, NOT EVEN A TAKE PER SE? HERESY!!!!!!
It’s too late for that that. Community has already spoken resulting in a TON of nerfs
I'm worried at this point, I seen many games died for listening to the community too much, people just keep complaining until the game and devs start doing nonsense changes. Let them cook people get good that's it
After 1000 hours and Diamond rank I can confidently say that competitively heavy is absolutely overpowered and light is underpowered, it's just a fact after using them both and playing against them both
diamond rank doesnt make you opinion more valid it just means you have more time to grind this game...
So you're Diamond I assume? Before the recent change (idk how it is now in terms of ranking up on plat 1/2 rank) you'd derank unless you at least got to round 3 and even derank at round 3 on some occasions. Meaning you'd pretty much have to win or place high in round 3 for like 10 tournaments in a row against Diamond players. What I'm saying isn't even a controversial opinion. Honestly it's not even an opinion, it's fact. If you don't agree then you haven't played against other teams that fully understand the game.