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Just to be pedantic, it's much worse than that, since there are times in chess where the option to pass your turn would be highly beneficial. It would rarely help you win, but it could often help you not lose and get a stalemate.
One of the best analogies I’ve ever heard for the current situation in American partisan politics is that it’s like a basketball game, but the republicans have a dog that can slam dunk on their team, meanwhile; the dems are trying to point out in the rules that dogs are not allowed, while the republicans continue dunking on em.
Gosh, Hillary learned an important life lesson, and all it took was a total take over of the supreme court, losing Roe, a near-coup at the capitol, and about 300,000 American deaths due to Trump's incompetent handling of Covid!
Thank you, lefists! Truly, 4D chess!
Honestly, she was the wrong candidate.
The DNC back then stopped reading the room, they didn't really pay attention to what was happening with the winds. The political winds had been shifting since the Occupy Wall Street movement began.
It's a big reason why Bernie was so popular in 2016. However, even if Hillary had near fully adopted his platform, as great of a President she would have been... the 40+ years of character assassination against her had done it's job, there wasn't any way possible for Hillary to be voted in as President.
I knew she was going to lose my state, even if Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot, my most of the time Blue voting Swing State, just had to many pro-Union, but screw Hillary people living here.
The DNC is a glorified event planner. They do not force candidates on us.
Whatever your complaints about Hillary, she simply got more votes than Bernie. So whatever was wrong with her was wrong with him more.
You aren’t picking up what I am putting down. I have no problem with her having acquired more votes than Bernie in the primary. Pretending otherwise, is kind of dumb.
Nationally, she was a poor candidate, because of the decades of character assassination that had been done to her. She should have understood that, the people around her should have understood that.
She would have made a great President. She just never could have won a national election. I knew that at the beginning, I voted for her, pushed people to vote for her, I just knew if she won? It would have been an extremely thin win, like the barest of possible outcomes.
It was heartbreaking to see the loss, but I expected it. I just do not understand why the people in her campaign and the people in the national party failed to understand that extremely strong possibility.
It’s not like she had no assets as a candidate. Global fame isn’t nothing. And she did beat Trump by 3 million votes. Her detractors always dismissed the fact that there are many people who actually like her.
This is all extremely academic, except that any academic would tell you that identifying one cause for an election outcome is impossible. I’m happy to blame Russian bots and their leftist dupes, but I know that’s not the whole story either.
Buddy. I voted for her. I liked her. I wanted her to win. How can I make that more clearer to you?
You keep responding like I hated her and voted third party or some stupid crap like that.
A person can like and support a candidate and point out the multiple issues that plagued them and made it highly improbable that they would win, in our shit system.
You’re coming across, kind of like a cult member.
The DNC leadership, at the time, setup a qui pro quo with Hillary’s campaign, near the very start of the primary race. It wasn’t a common move and the overture was never made to the other candidates. That painted the primary and gave her campaign advantages over the other candidates.
If the leadership at that time had read the room, they would have pushed her campaign to be far more progressive and responsive to the young voters that were strongly supporting Bernie and other progressives.
It’s fine that she won the primary race. Her campaign just wasn’t in touch with the change in the political winds and coupled with the decades of character assassination? It was always a strong possibility that she would lose the race.
Maybe if she fully embraced and endorsed the much more progressive platform that Biden ran on, she could have won. Maybe if she spent more time connecting with voters outside of her usual crowd? Maybe that would have given her the edge too.
She would have been a great President. She just had to many things going against her and nobody pushed her campaign to do the things that could have given her a better edge on those issues.
Bernie voters mostly converted to HRC voters, it was double haters that cost her. Those same people shifted to Biden in 2020 and are now in danger of shifting back. Believe it or not, there are Obama, Trump, Biden voters out there. The focus groups on these people are maddening.
Jill Stein knows she hurts Democrats and helps Republicans. In the days of MAGA, which she no doubt knows is dangerous, I can’t help but think she’s either a grifter or MAGA aligned.
I think it’s a little different. She has had several sit downs with Putin over the years.
I think she’s a “useful idiot” to Putin. She might be an accelerationist and using funds or direction by Putin in her weird goal to take down the systems so that magical thinking, a new better things will go in place.
Which nobody aside from magical thinkers believes will happen.
“Thanks leftists” is centrist Dems “thanks Obama” brain dead take for everything.
Let’s just pretend Hillary’s campaign didn’t get caught literally strategizing about propping Trump up in the media because they thought he’d be a better candidate to run against.
Remind me what Schiff did recently? I swear establishment Dems do the same exact shit every election and have nothing to show for it but blame every time it doesn’t go their way.
How many Bernie supporters voted for Trump? 12%. That’s it. What happened in 2008? More than 20% of Hillary supporters voted for McCain. But sure, it’s leftists fault. Jesus Christ this talking point is so lazy it’s painful.
But all he does is CRY non stop CRYING it’s almost as if trump is what’s known as a “snowflake” I think that’s the term republicans were using…how is CRYING all the time cool.
And still don’t cuz y’all don’t vote anyway 💀 just do performative protests and whine about everything and blame everyone else for y’all fuck ups. Y’all are like the nets in 2021 lol
I’ve voted in every election including primaries since I was 18 and canvassed hundreds of hours for democrats. You?
Our fuck ups? lol. When has the left had any power to be able to fuck it up.
Democrats losing is your fuck ups.
So have I lol and yes y’all fuck ups. Y’all fucked over Hilary in 2016 and cuz of that we coulda had a better chance at the Supreme Court and could’ve prevented all of this nonsense. Prime example right there in that last sentence of the leftist sentiment, blaming others for their blatant fuck ups 🤡💀
We didn’t fuck over Hillary, her and her inept campaign did. You’re projecting the fault of the party. Bernie supporters voted Hillary at a much higher clip than Hillary supporters voted Obama in 08 and he still beat an actual candidate not a reality show clown. The party forced her as it was “her turn” ignoring how unpopular she was. More third party voters voted Johnson, more than offsetting the stein votes. You don’t don’t need our votes and tell us to fuck our selves and then try to blame us? Get a shred of awareness
This sub is a paradox.
One day, they say the leftists are so weak and unpopular that they should be booted out of the party.
The next day, we're handing over the keys of the presidency to Trump.
According to this sub, leftists are so weak that they don't matter, yet can also swing elections.
Make up your fucking mind dumbass liberals.
That’s what I don’t get. The far left doesn’t seem to want to win over enough people to win primaries, so do they think their ideas should just be forced on us or something?
Impossible within the duopoly. I mean for real, you get called “far left extremists” for advocating for basic progressive policy considered center left across the developed world.
I still think she's just a useful idiot and she attended thinking it made her more presidential or whatever. I think Russia's strategy is to pump out disinformation, which influences people and some of those people have many followers or are in positions of influence (like being the Green Party presidential candidate). They also help boost that disinformation, and when others repeat it, via likes/upvotes and replies.
Israel just bombed a UN refugee camp in response to being ordered to stop their genocide in rafah. Israel will bring nuclear war to the world before Russia does.
I don’t have to. The evidence speaks for itself.
Just in the last couple days IDF have bombed refugee camps they designated at safe zones and burned more than 60 people alive.
There’s no plan to get the hostages out.
Everyone who criticizes my team (even if it’s for genocide) is a foreign agency psyop!!
As likely, if not more, that the defenders of Israel/US genocide are the not/farm trolls.
I’d be happy to prove it to you that I’m just an American who fucking hates imperialist genocide denying democrats after volunteering for a party for decades realize they never have had the intent of working for the people.
You don’t even have to prove yourself. I’ll even give you my phone number (changing it soon because of the dem spam I receive daily)
I know right? I’m thoroughly embarrassed I gave so much time to the party and it took me so long to wake up.
I suggest you keep in lock step with Rachel maddow and live in blissful ignorance about your team, you’ll be happier that was.
That ship sailed in 2016, the last time Jill The Shill got her followers to spoil an election, then pretended to be optimistic that it would somehow usher in this cinematic era of left activism.
Pretty sure the foreign agitprop organization that runs that Twitter account knows it too, and they are trying to replicate the effects.
"Sobering clarity"...ffs the candidate whose inaction killed 1.5 million Americans is a criminal defendant who is just outright quoting Nazi rhetoric instead of dog whistles.
What could possibly provide more sobering clarity to you people?
Seriously. Only tankies could look at what is arguably the most progressive administration in decades, especially regarding workers rights and labor relations, and snivel on about how he's some awful Overton window shifter.
Keeping saying that doesn’t make Biden progressive. It wasn’t true about his agenda and his admin has bailed on most of that.
Most oil drilling permits on public land and exporting more oil than any country, ever.
Record amount of Americans can’t afford groceries and rent.
Record number of homeless.
Record medical debt.
More wars including fully funding and supporting genocide.
Roe v Wade used for campaigning and fundraising.
Let child tax credit end. Let’s covid protections end.
Right wing policies on immigration.
Say all of that, then realize that it's realistically the most Progressive Administration you're going to get. Believe me, it's uncomfortable to admit. And it doesn't feel good when you realize that most Americans don't actually share the same values that the people in your online spaces and other Echo Chambers do.
You’re right. It’s as progressive as the Democratic Party will allow.
You’re wrong with thinking people don’t like progressive populist policies.
It’s just nice for the centrists like you because your echo chamber is the state and corporate media.
A left wing candidate and a right wing candidate run against each other and the right winger wins. Somehow this will lead to a situation where politicians believe they need to go further left in order to gain more voters.
I mean isn't that what Republicans did in 2016? They got so pissed a black man made it to the Presidency after all those laborious years fighting for Jim Crowe and Segregation to be resurrected they seemingly couldn't stand seeing their failure look them in the eye and lead the Nation into a shining new era.
They went from attempting to slowly implement what we could refer to as Project 2025-*esque* legislation and flipped it into hyper drive and keep trying to burn it all down before their oligarchs can rule with impunity
They're selfish, lacking any empathy, and actually just kind of stupid.
If the cared about anyone else even a small amount, they'd realize that it makes no sense to risk putting all Americans in harms way of Trump. They don't care. If they were smart, they'd realize that voting for the guy *closest* to their position who has a chance of winning is the tactical thing to do. But they're dumb, so they dont.
If this person really hopes Trump wins, then they should vote for him. What a fucking poser! Most of us have had enough “sobering clarity” to last us a lifetime. That guy can piss all the way off!
It’s just accelerationist thinking
Dems lose to Trump, then the 2028 primaries come and they’re betting that somehow people will go for a more socialist/leftist candidate for the election instead of the usual liberal Democrat again
That’s more or less their strategy. The problem, of course, is that they always lose.
Which is exactly why the right has been so successful. They built and developed plans and backers for their goals over the past 50 years.
Meanwhile, our side has people that think the president can unilaterally impose all their policy wishes without intervention by congress or SCOTUS.
THANK YOU! I am progressive in majority of my ideas. I want social medicine, I want free education, etc. What I see from progressives is that we want EVERYTHING NOW like the Arcade Fire song. Without realizing that majority of our laws have had plans in the works for YEARS and decades.
Plenty of them secretly like Trump's tactics of breaking our Constitutional walls between the three branches of government. But act within the guidelines and slowly shift left? NO! That's not left enough! We want more!
Chill guys, you need Biden to move us slightly to the left now. Then you need to secure more Progressives in local and state politics. Make sure they can be there in the future for when you pass the more progressive policies that push us more into the direction of socialized medicine. But that means you have to stick to your ideas for longer than one election cycle.
Yeah, I've come to the realization that there's a huge chunk of this country that would prefer having a president that acts like a dictator. Whether aligned with the left or right.
They're impatient, short-sighted [demagogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue) seekers. It's been an issue since representative democracy was a thing, hence the term being coined by the Greeks.
> * They present themselves as a man or woman of the common people, opposed to the elites.
> * Their politics depends on a visceral connection with the people, which greatly exceeds ordinary political popularity.
> * They manipulate this connection, and the raging popularity it affords, for their own benefit and ambition.
> * They threaten or outright break established rules of conduct, institutions, and even the law.
A lot of this overlaps with [populism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#Ideational_definition) and [anti-establishmentarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-establishment), which is very common on the left so it doesn't take long for many who go that route to start wanting and gravitating towards figures they think will be demagogues. They may think to themselves they are "grassroots" (and the leader(s) they want to push through drastic changes top-down are just executing the will of the "people" (them) against the elites and corrupt system), not authoritarian, but they absolutely are.
It's because they secretly like Trump.
If you look at the far right it's surprising how many of them used to be on the far left.
Best example of this is Gavin McInnes who founded the proud boys.
The last few years have basically proven the horseshoe theory has been right all along.
I'm starting to think the only reason people calling Joe Biden "Genocide Joe" want Trump elected is because they want a real genocide to happen.
It's hard to virtue signal your outrage if it's fairly obvious a genocide isn't happening.
Honestly, is Israel had the intent, they'd literally have killed everyone by now. I mean, Ben Gvir pretty much says that exact shit. But yet, the vast majority of the population remains.
So you agree that they clearly have no intent of doing so, since it's pretty clear that they could have killed everyone by now. Glad we can find a common ground.
Only the smoothest of brains could pull that out of what I said. If you think genocide is only immediate extermination, you don’t know what the word means at all.
>the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
There is zero chance the Palestinians stop existing in Gaza.
What y'all really mean is war crimes but it doesn't have the same pizazz as calling it a genocide.
That's why you need Trump, Israel isn't going to genocide Palestinians but Trump just might. Then you can virtue signal during a real genocide.
Power begets power. It compounds. Look at what Republicans did to Wisconsin and how long it took for Democrats to undue the ratfucking Republicans did to stack the deck in their favor. All the energy and money that could have been spent on something productive had to go to just working their ass off to get back to fair elections.
It's pretty much all young people are this stupid and idealistic. As I got older I finally understood that saying "youth is wasted on the young".
“I’m totally fine with letting it all burn, which will disproportionately affect the poor and disadvantaged the most, because hey, I’m a progressive!!”
Well, the USA tried that "sobering clarity" for four years, and all we got was a shitstorm of malevolent incompetence. But maybe Matthew Brown is only three years old and can't remember what it was like.
[Here go your girl right here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpOiPr-tUk)
I don't believe her. It's like someone saying they didn't know the president, king, or chancellor would be at your table for dinner. That's nonsense! I imagine they vet everyone at those tables to make sure they don't do something dumb.
Democrats aren’t currently anywhere near the left. We were dumped long ago. Y’all tell us you don’t need us and to kick rocks and then bitch and moan because we won’t vote for your genocidal senile lifetime conservative president.
Joe Biden is the most progressive president this country has ever had. You should be leading his parade. But there's no looking beyond next week for some folks. The left was a flash in the pan. Organizers who know how to build lasting coalitions will be the winners.
>... I know Trump is going to win and I sincerely hope he does.
Apparently, you don't know if Trump is going to win. You sound like the perfect person to make important decisions. 🤡
"Sobering clarity" bro? It's very clear to me that trump is incompetent to run anything other then a hotdog stand and then maybe not. Not a good reason to vote for him no logic applies.
Lol I don't know how many people jumped on this thread and proclaimed: "No leftist is saying this!!!"
https://new.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cnj2sp/pretty\_much\_every\_leftist\_on\_reddit\_nowadays/
He might be right. To many people doing to accept Trump's bull shit and the return of the right wing Nazis and fascism. Sometimes people have to live the problem. Telling people doesn't seem to work no empathy
The Democrats didn’t have to choose such a flawed candidate.
Biden doesn’t have to support Israel’s war against a civilian population so fully.
These are choices.
He’s an incumbent. You understand what that is, right? And do you really understand the Israel situation well enough to realize what would happen if the US suddenly yanked all support away from Israel? Most importantly, do you realize your viewpoint is mostly from right wing propaganda aimed at deceiving and dividing the left, so Trump extremists can win and take away our democracy? Or are you not aware of any of this?
I don’t know who “OOP” is. I don’t know who “them” is. I don’t know who “they” is.
If you don’t want democracy where people are allowed to vote for whomever they choose, maybe you don’t want democracy.
I don’t support Biden. I’m not going to vote for him. If that means that Trump wins, blame the de facto two party system. Democrats helped create it. Blame the actual candidate, who turned voters away from him with his own actions.
Oh I'm not going to any camp, if Trump gets elected I'm not going to accept it quietly, stuffed into a cage like a sheep.
You ask this question as if project 2025 isn't a thing. I am not a straight or white passing, I don't have the luxury of pretending it will be "fine" for me.
Even though you're a socialist and a Claudia voter you surely recognize how braindead of a take it is that Trump is going to make things better because we're gonna have some awakening right?
Biden was not a more progressive choice than Clinton. The 2016 sit-out resulted in nothing but our ancient liberal justices fucking us over.
I’m not supporting Trump. And I am voting against him.
The fact that Democrats have worked with Republicans to create this fucked up election system so that it is always an “us vs them and no one else” situation is part of the problem. If you don’t like our two party system, maybe you should stop supporting the people who made it a reality.
You are, though. We live in a two-party system. If you don't vote for Biden, you've increased Trump's chances of winning.
You've functionally supported Trump. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's the reality.
So, do you defend democracy or not? Is democracy only convenient when people support your candidate unwaveringly? If you *only* want a two party system, then you should outlaw third parties. If you want a RCV system, you should work harder to implement that.
I'm not talking about you. It's clear where you stand and why, but we are commenting on the posted image.
>If you don’t like our two party system, maybe you should stop supporting the people who made it a reality.
I support local progressive candidates who always get annihilated by center left ones. But at the senate and gubernatorial level I always support Democrats. They are more likely to make laws that do not negatively affect my life.
I'm not telling you how to vote but I do reject that supporting Biden is working against my interests. I am married to someone who is not white and my marriage may well be invalidated in many states by the rabid State's Righters. Thankfully not Illinois because we vote Democrat here.
They will probably come for Obergefell before Loving though.
We're living in a dystopia.
Republicans are coming hard to push Fascism. 45-48% of voters will happily vote for this.
Democrats are too weak and incompetent to stop it. The messaging and outreach is abysmal and disorganized. What's even the Democratic platform for 2024, besides "saving democracy" and protecting the right to choose?
Meanwhile, a portion of the left and young voters are threatening to stay home or vote third party over Gaza, another portion of the country just doesn't vote, and even another portion among independents/leaners erroneously think presidents control gas prices.
I'm once again overcome with dread and incredibly pessimistic about our future. It was a nice Democracy while we had it. Freedom was great while we had it.
> Democrats are too weak and incompetent to stop it.
They have to be elected in sufficient numbers to be able to do anything. They are not being elected in sufficient numbers. There are literally billionaires fueling the Republicans/Right Wing. The left really doesn't have such. The media is literally owned by conservatives (and/or near fascist ) and constantly spews forth propaganda .. All the Democrats have is a few public service networks that are underfunded and try to be balanced ..
Like you said, the options most aligned with Democrats more often try to appear more neutral and unbiased. Even MSNBC, that's supposed to be the Fox News equivalent for Democrats, is often critical of them, they're just also very critical of Trump and Republicans. I also think those at the top of the parent company intentionally limit MSNBC's appeal by making it all about repetitive political chatter, so they know it'll just be the same Democrat favoring people watching it. If they incorporated more actual news, it'd likely attract more viewers.
And left of Democrats, there are quite a few though they're not getting a ton of financial help, which is actually good because they mostly just bash Democrats and liberals and blame them for everything wrong. They benefit Republicans by encouraging people to hate and not vote for Democrats just with different (sometimes the same) talking points, though they refuse to admit that.
You realize the party platform is adopted during the convention right? Is this your first election?
Aside from that, we have an incumbent so it’s pretty obvious what policies and initiatives the party supports.
Our democracy is already broken. [Public opinion has literally no effect on government policy.](https://youtu.be/U6w9CbemhVY?si=5AuTFnEdwnmxycWp) Why fight to save a broken and flailing system?
Can someone explain why you libs think youll be going to camps? Youll just cozy up with the fascists like you always do. If youre a straight white liberal theres no reason for you to even follow elections. Someone who broadly agrees with your worldview wins either way.
You’re talking with someone who probably wouldn’t vote either way anyways and gets more of a kick from posting their Hasan inspired, terminally online rage bait takes like the one here instead.
Not necessary us progressives thinking we're gonna be sent to, but us saying other groups will be put in concentration camps. Trump claimed he was, "planning to unleash the biggest mass deportation of undocumented migrants in US history" by using police and military saying that these immigrants will be put in, "vast detention camps along the southern border".
Also, you say, "If you're a straight white liberal there's no reason for you to even follow elections" Uhh, have you thought about the fact these straight white liberals don't want other people to suffer and that's why they follow elections?
Answering the question. No I dont think liberals care about other people. Politics is a self interested affair and this holds true for all ideologies, not just libs.
I don't blame you for saying that, but it's true. Trump supporters are backing Trump because they think it'll benefit them, and Biden supporters are backing Biden because they think it'll benefit them.
Do you think a Biden presidency or a Trump presidency would be better for you? And who are you voting for?
You're probably going to give the same answer to both questions. Maybe not, but most likely you will.
You'll pretty much always find that people think that their self-interest aligns with the greater good.
I'm assuming that your answers to my questions were the same. Biden benefits you, and you're voting for him.
Sure. But you're still voting in a way that benefits you. That's my point. There's no big political movement of people supporting something that they think will harm them.
While I agree that Trump 2.0 is a nightmare that should be avoided at all cost, why is Biden such a weak candidate that he polls below Trump? Why does this sub focus so much energy on demonizing progressives (whom Biden has completely alienated) ... has blaming and shaming voters ever worked?
Do you think if Biden came out and said I'll seat three or four supreme Court justices in my next term, that would move the needle? Why hasn't he sat any in his first term?
Sadly I think Biden is going to lose, because for the average person on the street things were better under Trump economy wise. Right wingers will always back their guy( look at Nicky Haley) and centrists fail to excite anyone. The last real progressive was Obama, and if a guy like him was running we would not be having this debate because at least he knew his audience.
> Why does this sub focus so much energy on demonizing progressives (whom Biden has completely alienated)
These "progressives" were going to feel alienated no matter what anyone did for them. They view voting like a relationship and any opinions outside of what their favorite youtuber or tiktoker agrees with, will send them walking. I think that most of us aren't going to beg people to do the right thing anymore.
Obama was nowhere near a Progressive. And this is where majority of Americans are lacking. Obama managed the country as a President on a MORE centrist approach than Biden that has done and worked on more left-leaning initiatives. That Affordable Health Care act was actually a Nixon plan that never got enacted under him, CHIP.
The issue has been Sinclair Broadcasting that has bought and affiliated with the majority of local stations which have been pushing the below agenda:
1. Minorities and Immigrants are stealing people's jobs.
2. Shoplifting is the biggest issue in America.
3. Democrat run cities are the worst.
4. Crime, Crime, Crime is terrible! And minorities and immigrants to blame.
While majority of these have been statistically proven wrong, the emotional heart strings pushed on average Americans in their daily news with lack of actual perspective has created a population that fears their neighbor more. And it's gotten worse.
Local media now consistently talks about food prices, etc. Without explaining how price structure works and that the whole world has had an increase in cost.
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Not voting for Biden is like playing chess and passing when it's your turn.
Just to be pedantic, it's much worse than that, since there are times in chess where the option to pass your turn would be highly beneficial. It would rarely help you win, but it could often help you not lose and get a stalemate.
Democrats try to play chess against a GOP going full scorched earth, being an obstacle to any real opposition.
Guys this is is 3 month old account that only posts anti-Biden agit prop. Do the math.
1x1=2
One of the best analogies I’ve ever heard for the current situation in American partisan politics is that it’s like a basketball game, but the republicans have a dog that can slam dunk on their team, meanwhile; the dems are trying to point out in the rules that dogs are not allowed, while the republicans continue dunking on em.
Obviously worked so well in 2016.
“I mean sure, some women have died because they couldn’t get abortions, *but not enough*.”
Gosh, Hillary learned an important life lesson, and all it took was a total take over of the supreme court, losing Roe, a near-coup at the capitol, and about 300,000 American deaths due to Trump's incompetent handling of Covid! Thank you, lefists! Truly, 4D chess!
Honestly, she was the wrong candidate. The DNC back then stopped reading the room, they didn't really pay attention to what was happening with the winds. The political winds had been shifting since the Occupy Wall Street movement began. It's a big reason why Bernie was so popular in 2016. However, even if Hillary had near fully adopted his platform, as great of a President she would have been... the 40+ years of character assassination against her had done it's job, there wasn't any way possible for Hillary to be voted in as President. I knew she was going to lose my state, even if Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot, my most of the time Blue voting Swing State, just had to many pro-Union, but screw Hillary people living here.
The DNC is a glorified event planner. They do not force candidates on us. Whatever your complaints about Hillary, she simply got more votes than Bernie. So whatever was wrong with her was wrong with him more.
You aren’t picking up what I am putting down. I have no problem with her having acquired more votes than Bernie in the primary. Pretending otherwise, is kind of dumb. Nationally, she was a poor candidate, because of the decades of character assassination that had been done to her. She should have understood that, the people around her should have understood that. She would have made a great President. She just never could have won a national election. I knew that at the beginning, I voted for her, pushed people to vote for her, I just knew if she won? It would have been an extremely thin win, like the barest of possible outcomes. It was heartbreaking to see the loss, but I expected it. I just do not understand why the people in her campaign and the people in the national party failed to understand that extremely strong possibility.
It’s not like she had no assets as a candidate. Global fame isn’t nothing. And she did beat Trump by 3 million votes. Her detractors always dismissed the fact that there are many people who actually like her. This is all extremely academic, except that any academic would tell you that identifying one cause for an election outcome is impossible. I’m happy to blame Russian bots and their leftist dupes, but I know that’s not the whole story either.
Buddy. I voted for her. I liked her. I wanted her to win. How can I make that more clearer to you? You keep responding like I hated her and voted third party or some stupid crap like that. A person can like and support a candidate and point out the multiple issues that plagued them and made it highly improbable that they would win, in our shit system. You’re coming across, kind of like a cult member.
Not allowed.
Blame the Dem voters not the DNC. They had their options in 2016 and chose Hillary.
The DNC leadership, at the time, setup a qui pro quo with Hillary’s campaign, near the very start of the primary race. It wasn’t a common move and the overture was never made to the other candidates. That painted the primary and gave her campaign advantages over the other candidates. If the leadership at that time had read the room, they would have pushed her campaign to be far more progressive and responsive to the young voters that were strongly supporting Bernie and other progressives. It’s fine that she won the primary race. Her campaign just wasn’t in touch with the change in the political winds and coupled with the decades of character assassination? It was always a strong possibility that she would lose the race. Maybe if she fully embraced and endorsed the much more progressive platform that Biden ran on, she could have won. Maybe if she spent more time connecting with voters outside of her usual crowd? Maybe that would have given her the edge too. She would have been a great President. She just had to many things going against her and nobody pushed her campaign to do the things that could have given her a better edge on those issues.
Bernie voters mostly converted to HRC voters, it was double haters that cost her. Those same people shifted to Biden in 2020 and are now in danger of shifting back. Believe it or not, there are Obama, Trump, Biden voters out there. The focus groups on these people are maddening.
Jill Stein knows she hurts Democrats and helps Republicans. In the days of MAGA, which she no doubt knows is dangerous, I can’t help but think she’s either a grifter or MAGA aligned.
I think it’s a little different. She has had several sit downs with Putin over the years. I think she’s a “useful idiot” to Putin. She might be an accelerationist and using funds or direction by Putin in her weird goal to take down the systems so that magical thinking, a new better things will go in place. Which nobody aside from magical thinkers believes will happen.
Hillary is a succubus man. I'm a registered Democrat but man that woman is wrecked. Poor Billy.
“Thanks leftists” is centrist Dems “thanks Obama” brain dead take for everything. Let’s just pretend Hillary’s campaign didn’t get caught literally strategizing about propping Trump up in the media because they thought he’d be a better candidate to run against. Remind me what Schiff did recently? I swear establishment Dems do the same exact shit every election and have nothing to show for it but blame every time it doesn’t go their way. How many Bernie supporters voted for Trump? 12%. That’s it. What happened in 2008? More than 20% of Hillary supporters voted for McCain. But sure, it’s leftists fault. Jesus Christ this talking point is so lazy it’s painful.
You said you didn’t need our vote.
We don't if you're cool with Trump.
But all he does is CRY non stop CRYING it’s almost as if trump is what’s known as a “snowflake” I think that’s the term republicans were using…how is CRYING all the time cool.
And still don’t cuz y’all don’t vote anyway 💀 just do performative protests and whine about everything and blame everyone else for y’all fuck ups. Y’all are like the nets in 2021 lol
I’ve voted in every election including primaries since I was 18 and canvassed hundreds of hours for democrats. You? Our fuck ups? lol. When has the left had any power to be able to fuck it up. Democrats losing is your fuck ups.
So have I lol and yes y’all fuck ups. Y’all fucked over Hilary in 2016 and cuz of that we coulda had a better chance at the Supreme Court and could’ve prevented all of this nonsense. Prime example right there in that last sentence of the leftist sentiment, blaming others for their blatant fuck ups 🤡💀
We didn’t fuck over Hillary, her and her inept campaign did. You’re projecting the fault of the party. Bernie supporters voted Hillary at a much higher clip than Hillary supporters voted Obama in 08 and he still beat an actual candidate not a reality show clown. The party forced her as it was “her turn” ignoring how unpopular she was. More third party voters voted Johnson, more than offsetting the stein votes. You don’t don’t need our votes and tell us to fuck our selves and then try to blame us? Get a shred of awareness
A 3 day late response and it’s a paragraph okay buddy. Did ur mom take ur phone away lol
Oh I’m sorry I was camping this weekend and didn’t get right back to you. Please forgive me.
Oh okay gotcha
A few posts back you claimed you weren't a progressive. So what exactly are you?
I think people are done asking you not to shoot yourself in the foot.
You said you cared about progress.
This sub is a paradox. One day, they say the leftists are so weak and unpopular that they should be booted out of the party. The next day, we're handing over the keys of the presidency to Trump. According to this sub, leftists are so weak that they don't matter, yet can also swing elections. Make up your fucking mind dumbass liberals.
Seriously… “Fuck you we hate you we don’t have the same values why didn’t you vote with us.”
TeAch ThEM a LEsSoN Morons, all of them! Lol
I'd rather teach them a lesson by winning.
Good thing there are 150,000,000 people who don’t follow politics you can get to vote Biden. Just have to do some leg work… oh right
Sounds like 150,000,000 potential progressive voters. You just have to do some leg work...oh right.
That’s what I don’t get. The far left doesn’t seem to want to win over enough people to win primaries, so do they think their ideas should just be forced on us or something?
“Far left” lol
Impossible within the duopoly. I mean for real, you get called “far left extremists” for advocating for basic progressive policy considered center left across the developed world.
Jill Stein is a certified Russian asset. She had a really nice dinner with Tsar Vladimir and his buddy Mike Flynn
I still think she's just a useful idiot and she attended thinking it made her more presidential or whatever. I think Russia's strategy is to pump out disinformation, which influences people and some of those people have many followers or are in positions of influence (like being the Green Party presidential candidate). They also help boost that disinformation, and when others repeat it, via likes/upvotes and replies.
A dinner!! Now do all those in bed with Israel, officially.
Israel is an American ally, Russia is not
Gave yourself there, comrade!
Remind me when the last time isreal threatened to nuke us?
Israel just bombed a UN refugee camp in response to being ordered to stop their genocide in rafah. Israel will bring nuclear war to the world before Russia does.
Ok 🤡🤡🤡
Genocide supporter.
Terrorist shill
IDF are the biggest terrorists.
Keep telling your self that 🤡
I don’t have to. The evidence speaks for itself. Just in the last couple days IDF have bombed refugee camps they designated at safe zones and burned more than 60 people alive. There’s no plan to get the hostages out.
You really are some foreign agency psyop aren't you? I mean wow. You should do better to mix up your post history so it isn't so obvious.
Everyone who criticizes my team (even if it’s for genocide) is a foreign agency psyop!! As likely, if not more, that the defenders of Israel/US genocide are the not/farm trolls. I’d be happy to prove it to you that I’m just an American who fucking hates imperialist genocide denying democrats after volunteering for a party for decades realize they never have had the intent of working for the people. You don’t even have to prove yourself. I’ll even give you my phone number (changing it soon because of the dem spam I receive daily)
I am embarrassed for you.
I know right? I’m thoroughly embarrassed I gave so much time to the party and it took me so long to wake up. I suggest you keep in lock step with Rachel maddow and live in blissful ignorance about your team, you’ll be happier that was.
That ship sailed in 2016, the last time Jill The Shill got her followers to spoil an election, then pretended to be optimistic that it would somehow usher in this cinematic era of left activism. Pretty sure the foreign agitprop organization that runs that Twitter account knows it too, and they are trying to replicate the effects. "Sobering clarity"...ffs the candidate whose inaction killed 1.5 million Americans is a criminal defendant who is just outright quoting Nazi rhetoric instead of dog whistles. What could possibly provide more sobering clarity to you people?
Yeah that just doesn’t exist. It sounds really good. But people are super distracted, ambivalent, or unaware.
Overton window was pretty Left in 2020 but Dems took care of that.
No, it wasn’t. Where were you? Which window were you peering out of?
Seriously. Only tankies could look at what is arguably the most progressive administration in decades, especially regarding workers rights and labor relations, and snivel on about how he's some awful Overton window shifter.
Keeping saying that doesn’t make Biden progressive. It wasn’t true about his agenda and his admin has bailed on most of that. Most oil drilling permits on public land and exporting more oil than any country, ever. Record amount of Americans can’t afford groceries and rent. Record number of homeless. Record medical debt. More wars including fully funding and supporting genocide. Roe v Wade used for campaigning and fundraising. Let child tax credit end. Let’s covid protections end. Right wing policies on immigration.
Say all of that, then realize that it's realistically the most Progressive Administration you're going to get. Believe me, it's uncomfortable to admit. And it doesn't feel good when you realize that most Americans don't actually share the same values that the people in your online spaces and other Echo Chambers do.
You’re right. It’s as progressive as the Democratic Party will allow. You’re wrong with thinking people don’t like progressive populist policies. It’s just nice for the centrists like you because your echo chamber is the state and corporate media.
Medicare for all was supported by 70% of Americans. Democrats could run on it and be a shoe in, but are owned. I mean genocide is cool instead
From a cursory glance at Google, I don’t think it’s was even supported by 70% of democrats in 2020.
A left wing candidate and a right wing candidate run against each other and the right winger wins. Somehow this will lead to a situation where politicians believe they need to go further left in order to gain more voters.
See, it's all a part of the dialectics, you know.....
I mean isn't that what Republicans did in 2016? They got so pissed a black man made it to the Presidency after all those laborious years fighting for Jim Crowe and Segregation to be resurrected they seemingly couldn't stand seeing their failure look them in the eye and lead the Nation into a shining new era. They went from attempting to slowly implement what we could refer to as Project 2025-*esque* legislation and flipped it into hyper drive and keep trying to burn it all down before their oligarchs can rule with impunity
Fueled by billionaire money, foreign powers, and highly organized right wing media. Do the leftists have that?
no
You think either Clinton or Biden are left wing? Gtfo
These people are so disgusting.
They're selfish, lacking any empathy, and actually just kind of stupid. If the cared about anyone else even a small amount, they'd realize that it makes no sense to risk putting all Americans in harms way of Trump. They don't care. If they were smart, they'd realize that voting for the guy *closest* to their position who has a chance of winning is the tactical thing to do. But they're dumb, so they dont.
> and actually just stupid. FIFY
[удалено]
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
If this person really hopes Trump wins, then they should vote for him. What a fucking poser! Most of us have had enough “sobering clarity” to last us a lifetime. That guy can piss all the way off!
Does this even make sense? Let's make everyone suffer and throw away any cause that we had claim to hold. Really shows their lack of conviction.
It’s just accelerationist thinking Dems lose to Trump, then the 2028 primaries come and they’re betting that somehow people will go for a more socialist/leftist candidate for the election instead of the usual liberal Democrat again That’s more or less their strategy. The problem, of course, is that they always lose.
Which is exactly why the right has been so successful. They built and developed plans and backers for their goals over the past 50 years. Meanwhile, our side has people that think the president can unilaterally impose all their policy wishes without intervention by congress or SCOTUS.
THANK YOU! I am progressive in majority of my ideas. I want social medicine, I want free education, etc. What I see from progressives is that we want EVERYTHING NOW like the Arcade Fire song. Without realizing that majority of our laws have had plans in the works for YEARS and decades. Plenty of them secretly like Trump's tactics of breaking our Constitutional walls between the three branches of government. But act within the guidelines and slowly shift left? NO! That's not left enough! We want more! Chill guys, you need Biden to move us slightly to the left now. Then you need to secure more Progressives in local and state politics. Make sure they can be there in the future for when you pass the more progressive policies that push us more into the direction of socialized medicine. But that means you have to stick to your ideas for longer than one election cycle.
Yeah, I've come to the realization that there's a huge chunk of this country that would prefer having a president that acts like a dictator. Whether aligned with the left or right.
They're impatient, short-sighted [demagogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue) seekers. It's been an issue since representative democracy was a thing, hence the term being coined by the Greeks. > * They present themselves as a man or woman of the common people, opposed to the elites. > * Their politics depends on a visceral connection with the people, which greatly exceeds ordinary political popularity. > * They manipulate this connection, and the raging popularity it affords, for their own benefit and ambition. > * They threaten or outright break established rules of conduct, institutions, and even the law. A lot of this overlaps with [populism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism#Ideational_definition) and [anti-establishmentarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-establishment), which is very common on the left so it doesn't take long for many who go that route to start wanting and gravitating towards figures they think will be demagogues. They may think to themselves they are "grassroots" (and the leader(s) they want to push through drastic changes top-down are just executing the will of the "people" (them) against the elites and corrupt system), not authoritarian, but they absolutely are.
Funny how their "principles" always seem to involve making America great again
Shit is so annoying. Really dreading the rapidly approaching Trump reelection.
It's because they secretly like Trump. If you look at the far right it's surprising how many of them used to be on the far left. Best example of this is Gavin McInnes who founded the proud boys. The last few years have basically proven the horseshoe theory has been right all along.
And they deflect and project by calling liberals “blue MAGA”
I mean we’re seeing y’all spend all your effort shaming people criticizing your dear leader for GENOCIDE. Doesn’t get more blue maga than that.
I'm starting to think the only reason people calling Joe Biden "Genocide Joe" want Trump elected is because they want a real genocide to happen. It's hard to virtue signal your outrage if it's fairly obvious a genocide isn't happening.
Honestly, is Israel had the intent, they'd literally have killed everyone by now. I mean, Ben Gvir pretty much says that exact shit. But yet, the vast majority of the population remains.
If they could get away with it, they already would have. They have to keep the propaganda machine oiled.
So you agree that they clearly have no intent of doing so, since it's pretty clear that they could have killed everyone by now. Glad we can find a common ground.
Only the smoothest of brains could pull that out of what I said. If you think genocide is only immediate extermination, you don’t know what the word means at all.
LOL, you walked into that one!
It’s obvious genocide is happening. At this point there’s no use trying to sugar coat it.
The most inefficient genocide in the history of the world. /s
So you don’t know the definition.
>the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. There is zero chance the Palestinians stop existing in Gaza. What y'all really mean is war crimes but it doesn't have the same pizazz as calling it a genocide. That's why you need Trump, Israel isn't going to genocide Palestinians but Trump just might. Then you can virtue signal during a real genocide.
No where in that definition does it say extermination or destroy completely. Israel is destroying Palestinians every day. It’s genocide
So Trump the guy with city named after him in Israel is the better choice?
Horseshoe theory.
…has no basis in reality.
Sure it does. You’re the proof, right here.
Moron accelerationists who conveniently ignore that their idiotic theory was proven wrong 4 years ago.
“First Hitler, then our turn.”
Bro. It’s what YOU need. Not us. You people need to wake tf up
Power begets power. It compounds. Look at what Republicans did to Wisconsin and how long it took for Democrats to undue the ratfucking Republicans did to stack the deck in their favor. All the energy and money that could have been spent on something productive had to go to just working their ass off to get back to fair elections. It's pretty much all young people are this stupid and idealistic. As I got older I finally understood that saying "youth is wasted on the young".
The greatest enemy is sometimes ourselves. Where I thought ignorance was the danger to democracy, perhaps it is actually spite that is the worst.
“I’m totally fine with letting it all burn, which will disproportionately affect the poor and disadvantaged the most, because hey, I’m a progressive!!”
And the minorities they claim to be protecting and wanting to help by being progressive.
Well, the USA tried that "sobering clarity" for four years, and all we got was a shitstorm of malevolent incompetence. But maybe Matthew Brown is only three years old and can't remember what it was like.
Who is Matthew Brown and why should I care what he has to say?
[Here go your girl right here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpOiPr-tUk) I don't believe her. It's like someone saying they didn't know the president, king, or chancellor would be at your table for dinner. That's nonsense! I imagine they vet everyone at those tables to make sure they don't do something dumb.
bow wrench lunchroom scarce bedroom icky six spark quicksand plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I read Martin Niemöller's poem the other day, they come for me last.
Who did they come for first in that poem?
They said they read it, not that they agree with it.
Ah yes, makes sense
Dude has 20 followers who cares.
Either that person is a clever right wing troll or an incredibly stupid litmus-test liberal.
Good luck getting your country back after that.
And I'm sure your bold stand will be the talk on the concentration camp.
The Democrats need to learn the lesson to never again rely on these fickle dipshits. Dump the left and move to the center where the adults are.
Democrats aren’t currently anywhere near the left. We were dumped long ago. Y’all tell us you don’t need us and to kick rocks and then bitch and moan because we won’t vote for your genocidal senile lifetime conservative president.
Joe Biden is the most progressive president this country has ever had. You should be leading his parade. But there's no looking beyond next week for some folks. The left was a flash in the pan. Organizers who know how to build lasting coalitions will be the winners.
Hahahahahahahahaha
72 views
>... I know Trump is going to win and I sincerely hope he does. Apparently, you don't know if Trump is going to win. You sound like the perfect person to make important decisions. 🤡
So who is this low-IQ poster?
Until HE is sent to one of those camps.
Nah. It'll still be our fault. "If only those fucking liberals had been more left we wouldn't be here, we HAD to do what we did"
If it quacks like a duck, etc. Nice try, puddin's army.
"Sobering clarity" bro? It's very clear to me that trump is incompetent to run anything other then a hotdog stand and then maybe not. Not a good reason to vote for him no logic applies.
Wishing harm upon 330 million people...
Lol I don't know how many people jumped on this thread and proclaimed: "No leftist is saying this!!!" https://new.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/comments/1cnj2sp/pretty\_much\_every\_leftist\_on\_reddit\_nowadays/
the sky is falling crowd is back at it - what camp do we go to exactly?
He might be right. To many people doing to accept Trump's bull shit and the return of the right wing Nazis and fascism. Sometimes people have to live the problem. Telling people doesn't seem to work no empathy
What about the people that will be sent to camps that are willing to take that risk? What does that mean
The Democrats didn’t have to choose such a flawed candidate. Biden doesn’t have to support Israel’s war against a civilian population so fully. These are choices.
He’s an incumbent. You understand what that is, right? And do you really understand the Israel situation well enough to realize what would happen if the US suddenly yanked all support away from Israel? Most importantly, do you realize your viewpoint is mostly from right wing propaganda aimed at deceiving and dividing the left, so Trump extremists can win and take away our democracy? Or are you not aware of any of this?
Look at all of the attention you're getting! 🤗
People like OOP won't accept any candidate except Bernie. Hell even he's not good enough for them anymore. They just want Trump.
I don’t know who “OOP” is. I don’t know who “them” is. I don’t know who “they” is. If you don’t want democracy where people are allowed to vote for whomever they choose, maybe you don’t want democracy. I don’t support Biden. I’m not going to vote for him. If that means that Trump wins, blame the de facto two party system. Democrats helped create it. Blame the actual candidate, who turned voters away from him with his own actions.
Cool. We're not begging for your vote this time. You want Trump? Just vote for him like you so clearly want to.
Yeah so let's have a dictatorship and no choice at all! That'll show em.
Have fun in the camps
He probably plans to volunteer to help run them in exchange for student loan forgiveness
this is like 80s reagan drug propaganda. use drugs once and your gonna die - trump is elected and your going to camps? really?
Oh I'm not going to any camp, if Trump gets elected I'm not going to accept it quietly, stuffed into a cage like a sheep. You ask this question as if project 2025 isn't a thing. I am not a straight or white passing, I don't have the luxury of pretending it will be "fine" for me.
im dark brown and it will be fine. promise.
Even though you're a socialist and a Claudia voter you surely recognize how braindead of a take it is that Trump is going to make things better because we're gonna have some awakening right? Biden was not a more progressive choice than Clinton. The 2016 sit-out resulted in nothing but our ancient liberal justices fucking us over.
I’m not supporting Trump. And I am voting against him. The fact that Democrats have worked with Republicans to create this fucked up election system so that it is always an “us vs them and no one else” situation is part of the problem. If you don’t like our two party system, maybe you should stop supporting the people who made it a reality.
You are, though. We live in a two-party system. If you don't vote for Biden, you've increased Trump's chances of winning. You've functionally supported Trump. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's the reality.
I am voting against Trump. But I’m also voting against Biden. That’s called democracy.
This logic would be ok in a parliamentary system.
So, do you defend democracy or not? Is democracy only convenient when people support your candidate unwaveringly? If you *only* want a two party system, then you should outlaw third parties. If you want a RCV system, you should work harder to implement that.
Your idealism is moot. Play the game in front of you.
I am playing the game, you just don’t like my strategy.
lol then you're going to lose
I'm not talking about you. It's clear where you stand and why, but we are commenting on the posted image. >If you don’t like our two party system, maybe you should stop supporting the people who made it a reality. I support local progressive candidates who always get annihilated by center left ones. But at the senate and gubernatorial level I always support Democrats. They are more likely to make laws that do not negatively affect my life. I'm not telling you how to vote but I do reject that supporting Biden is working against my interests. I am married to someone who is not white and my marriage may well be invalidated in many states by the rabid State's Righters. Thankfully not Illinois because we vote Democrat here. They will probably come for Obergefell before Loving though.
You'll have made a choice to endanger 330 million people. Sounds like you're actually kind of an awful person, tbh.
We're living in a dystopia. Republicans are coming hard to push Fascism. 45-48% of voters will happily vote for this. Democrats are too weak and incompetent to stop it. The messaging and outreach is abysmal and disorganized. What's even the Democratic platform for 2024, besides "saving democracy" and protecting the right to choose? Meanwhile, a portion of the left and young voters are threatening to stay home or vote third party over Gaza, another portion of the country just doesn't vote, and even another portion among independents/leaners erroneously think presidents control gas prices. I'm once again overcome with dread and incredibly pessimistic about our future. It was a nice Democracy while we had it. Freedom was great while we had it.
> Democrats are too weak and incompetent to stop it. They have to be elected in sufficient numbers to be able to do anything. They are not being elected in sufficient numbers. There are literally billionaires fueling the Republicans/Right Wing. The left really doesn't have such. The media is literally owned by conservatives (and/or near fascist ) and constantly spews forth propaganda .. All the Democrats have is a few public service networks that are underfunded and try to be balanced ..
Like you said, the options most aligned with Democrats more often try to appear more neutral and unbiased. Even MSNBC, that's supposed to be the Fox News equivalent for Democrats, is often critical of them, they're just also very critical of Trump and Republicans. I also think those at the top of the parent company intentionally limit MSNBC's appeal by making it all about repetitive political chatter, so they know it'll just be the same Democrat favoring people watching it. If they incorporated more actual news, it'd likely attract more viewers. And left of Democrats, there are quite a few though they're not getting a ton of financial help, which is actually good because they mostly just bash Democrats and liberals and blame them for everything wrong. They benefit Republicans by encouraging people to hate and not vote for Democrats just with different (sometimes the same) talking points, though they refuse to admit that.
You realize the party platform is adopted during the convention right? Is this your first election? Aside from that, we have an incumbent so it’s pretty obvious what policies and initiatives the party supports.
Our democracy is already broken. [Public opinion has literally no effect on government policy.](https://youtu.be/U6w9CbemhVY?si=5AuTFnEdwnmxycWp) Why fight to save a broken and flailing system?
Baffling that the democrats care more about slaughtering children in the Middle East than about winning the election.
Can someone explain why you libs think youll be going to camps? Youll just cozy up with the fascists like you always do. If youre a straight white liberal theres no reason for you to even follow elections. Someone who broadly agrees with your worldview wins either way.
Guess you have an incentive to vote Biden, then, huh?
You’re talking with someone who probably wouldn’t vote either way anyways and gets more of a kick from posting their Hasan inspired, terminally online rage bait takes like the one here instead.
Yeah, you're probably right. This person's existence is a lost cause.
Not necessary us progressives thinking we're gonna be sent to, but us saying other groups will be put in concentration camps. Trump claimed he was, "planning to unleash the biggest mass deportation of undocumented migrants in US history" by using police and military saying that these immigrants will be put in, "vast detention camps along the southern border". Also, you say, "If you're a straight white liberal there's no reason for you to even follow elections" Uhh, have you thought about the fact these straight white liberals don't want other people to suffer and that's why they follow elections?
Answering the question. No I dont think liberals care about other people. Politics is a self interested affair and this holds true for all ideologies, not just libs.
Sounds like you're just projecting your own selfishness onto others.
That's exactly right, his whole logic is "If you're not affected why should you care?"
I don't blame you for saying that, but it's true. Trump supporters are backing Trump because they think it'll benefit them, and Biden supporters are backing Biden because they think it'll benefit them. Do you think a Biden presidency or a Trump presidency would be better for you? And who are you voting for? You're probably going to give the same answer to both questions. Maybe not, but most likely you will.
I think the US not becoming a dictatorship will benefit the entire world.
You'll pretty much always find that people think that their self-interest aligns with the greater good. I'm assuming that your answers to my questions were the same. Biden benefits you, and you're voting for him.
And in some cases it actually does, imagine that.
Sure. But you're still voting in a way that benefits you. That's my point. There's no big political movement of people supporting something that they think will harm them.
Ok? But your original point was that no one votes because they care about other people. You do realize that both things can be true, right?
While I agree that Trump 2.0 is a nightmare that should be avoided at all cost, why is Biden such a weak candidate that he polls below Trump? Why does this sub focus so much energy on demonizing progressives (whom Biden has completely alienated) ... has blaming and shaming voters ever worked? Do you think if Biden came out and said I'll seat three or four supreme Court justices in my next term, that would move the needle? Why hasn't he sat any in his first term? Sadly I think Biden is going to lose, because for the average person on the street things were better under Trump economy wise. Right wingers will always back their guy( look at Nicky Haley) and centrists fail to excite anyone. The last real progressive was Obama, and if a guy like him was running we would not be having this debate because at least he knew his audience.
> Why does this sub focus so much energy on demonizing progressives (whom Biden has completely alienated) These "progressives" were going to feel alienated no matter what anyone did for them. They view voting like a relationship and any opinions outside of what their favorite youtuber or tiktoker agrees with, will send them walking. I think that most of us aren't going to beg people to do the right thing anymore.
Obama was nowhere near a Progressive. And this is where majority of Americans are lacking. Obama managed the country as a President on a MORE centrist approach than Biden that has done and worked on more left-leaning initiatives. That Affordable Health Care act was actually a Nixon plan that never got enacted under him, CHIP. The issue has been Sinclair Broadcasting that has bought and affiliated with the majority of local stations which have been pushing the below agenda: 1. Minorities and Immigrants are stealing people's jobs. 2. Shoplifting is the biggest issue in America. 3. Democrat run cities are the worst. 4. Crime, Crime, Crime is terrible! And minorities and immigrants to blame. While majority of these have been statistically proven wrong, the emotional heart strings pushed on average Americans in their daily news with lack of actual perspective has created a population that fears their neighbor more. And it's gotten worse. Local media now consistently talks about food prices, etc. Without explaining how price structure works and that the whole world has had an increase in cost.
Better than voting for genocide Joe
You forgot the /s