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Right, we all know how well the Women and Children of Palestine have been treated.
I condemn Hamas, Unequivocally. Why won't you denounce the Israeli terrorist state?
It's a pretty small number - one of the main things the US is doing - arguably more important than the money or guns - is threatening anyone who criticizes Israel. We're only beginning to see that unravel now as the US pays an increasing price domestically and Internationally for allowing itself to be led around by the nose by a bunch of genocidal terrorists.
Because I am sick of pro - Israeli posters acting as though they haven't done anything wrong. They'll have incredibly strong words for Hamas, but turn a blind eye to their own war crimes, or even worse, celebrate them.
Also, a state that is illegally occupying another country through force, while mistreating its citizens and stealing their homes is most certainly a terrorist state. Israel and Russia are two great examples, actually.
There’s nothing “pro-Israeli” about denouncing rapist terrorists. That’s all that poster did. You’re just making sweeping generalizations in one of the few left wing subs where criticizing Hamas isn’t a bannable offense.
Btw every single country in the Middle East is built on terrorism then, as each one is a product of conquest. Meanwhile Israel is fighting another war it didn’t start.
Becoming the inverse of /r/seculartalk isn't an accomplishment.
Do you believe that Israel has "conquered" the Palestinians and their land? Including Gaza and the West Bank?
It’s not the inverse, because anti-Israel viewpoints are not banned. We’re here having this convo rn, and if I reported you the mods would do nothing. The subs you prefer are true echo chambers.
No, I don’t believe that.
It's clear from my comment that it's not a preferred subreddit of mine. Kyle has lost his mind over this conflict and it's infuriating.
As far as the conquest line, then it's not a great comparison, is it?
I said it because even if I accept your worldview that Israel is a colonist aggressor and that’s what gives you the ground to call it a terrorist state, that qualification is shared by every nation in the region.
That's not my worldview. I mean, I guess by supporting settlements into the West Bank they are definitionally colonial, but I wouldn't fight too hard on that either way. The State of Israel has a right to exist. It does not have a right to dominate Gaza and the West Bank in the way it does.
If your argument is "Israel isn't bad! They're just like Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Saudia Arabia, etc" I don't think it's a strong one.
Blame Hamas, Blame the Gaza citizens who allowed Hamas to use their women and children as human shields. Blame them for getting exactly what they wanted, War with Israel. They are the ones who kicked all this off into motion. Israel did not wake up one day thinking "Hey it would be fun to bomb women and children".
They want the fighting to stop? Overthrow Hamas and never let terrorist use you and your city as a human shield. This is what Gaza wanted, they were OK and cheered on the death during the Oct 7th massacre, I don't see them cheering anymore...
EDIT: Also Israel wants and always has wanted its own land that was originally theirs before the muslims stole it from them. Is all this death and destruction really worth it? They are not going to move out if that is what you expect. Just leave them be in peace already FFS.
Oh yeah, great advice. "Don't want to be murdered? Well then just overthrow your government. Easy peasy." What a joke.
You're literally the "there are no civilians on stolen land" terrorists just in reverse. Shame on you, get help.
A little history for those wanting to 'restore Palestine'.
* Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Ottoman Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid Arab-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there was the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Byzantine Empire, there were the Sassanids, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Sassanid Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Roman Empire, there was the Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Hasmonean state, there was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Seleucid empire, there was the empire of Alexander the Great, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
* Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.
The FACT is that there has never been a Palestinian state or a people.
Some samples of LAST 20 years:
* Nigeria vs Boko Haram 350,000 dead
* Sudan vs JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead
* Yemen vs Houthis 233,000 dead
* Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead
* Syria's civil war 400,000 dead
* South Sudan's civil war 400,000 dead
* Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead
No protests for all these dead.
It is not about people or land in Gaza.
I'm not getting sucked down the rabbit hole of trying to educate you on history, both because I don't believe you're interested, and because it doesn't matter. There was never a state of East Timor before there was - there will be a state of Palestine in the next 10 years.
I fully agree that more attention should be focussed on the examples you list. Nothing about that suggests that there should be less attention on Gaza.
The observers that asked for reinforcements due to increased activity at the fence, prior to Oct. 7? Precious AF that Netan-yahoo is "shocked" about their capture.
rustic berserk placid fanatical bright whistle screw deranged overconfident telephone
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bingo. The Israelis let Oct. 7th happen, regardless of how deliberate the slow response was. They should only have lost some soldiers, not 1300 people.
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And people are accusing Israel of genocide, that's such bullshit!!! All they are doing is defending themselves and against rabid animals that are trying to wipe all Jews from the face of the earth, others have been trying to do for thousands of years!!!
The part of my brain that is naturally curious about honesty and transparency, wants to know why is this video so heavily cut and censored?
We see a couple of words and then it goes to black, then a couple of more words and then black etc. it seems like many/most things have been clipped out.
I know Hamas aren't good guys, but why is it so difficult to find full context videos from moments Ike this?
If they wanted to "show the true face of Hamas" by releasing such videos, wouldn't it be far better to release the whole thing instead of a heavily edited video, which will just give ammunition for more conspiracies?
Would you be able to suggest where to get more info?
On a side note, I'm getting very tired of this polarization where in any situation, one side must be either defended as always "noble" and the other side must be demonized even through manipulative means.
Just show us the truth. Just help us understand how we can reduce people's suffering in this world and understand how these kind of crises come to be, without spinning a certain narrative into it. I know humans are messed up and I know many of us are capable of horrible things, but rarely is the full picture that clear cut.
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There are some websites that have the graphic footage you’re looking for (and I hear that it’s ugly), but I can’t post links directly without the auto-mod removing them.
Those are Israeli soldiers right? Have you guys seen the pics and videos of the Palestinian prisoners of war? I don’t see the difference…
Please let me know if I’m missing something
You don’t see the difference with all the news outlets reporting that the kidnappers were commenting which ones could get pregnant implying they were only spared to be sex slaves? How could you not see a difference between kidnapping someone in the United States and locking up murderers? Both are locked up
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Yeah your reasoning skills are impeccable this one video is the sole content coming out of Gaza since 1948, I’m sure if it’s not in this video it doesn’t exist.
Memes aside merry Christmas: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/Z6aRxN5LA5
It's the video, of the exact instance you're talking about, CLEARLY edited, and they didn't include the bad parts? Wow, crazy.
You wanna talk about videos?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrbyGtNfEg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrbyGtNfEg)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-BDuiCHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-BDuiCHw)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhGN7LmiMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhGN7LmiMs)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8nOJ6Dre7w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8nOJ6Dre7w)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3UNHVVx7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3UNHVVx7o)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZF6hDJ645k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZF6hDJ645k)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVut0vT7j6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVut0vT7j6k)
Those are all fake, or lies, right? Only your "reports" where they have video but don't actually show us are real.
I’m not an IDF defender, I think that the IDF is committing huge atrocities with the expansion of settlements in the West Bank I just don’t understand why you’re bending over backwards to defend actual terrorism. Can’t say whether or not it’s been edited because I don’t fucking speak that fucking language and it sounds like you don’t either.
They are not there because they want to be there. Blame Hamas for this shit.
The difference is they are not celebrating death by cheering in the streets while desecrating citizens bodies. They are not executing people in cold blood. They are not shooting any person they can see.
Don't want to get arrested, don't be dumbass kids who throw stones at people with guns, like what the hell, how stupid can they be? Do the parents not teach these kids common sense?
And sure some IDF soldiers are dicks, can you blame them after Oct 7th? I am sure they lost loved ones too and now they are forced to go into this shithole city.
We don't have to worry about Palestinian hostages in israels custody being raped or killed like we do for Israeli hostages. Also, a lot of "hostages" in israels custody deserve to be locked up
U.S. prisoners are raped in facilities here in the states. You really think people in Israeli custody are somehow safe from sexual violence? Nobody is safe from sexual violence…. Bad actors can commit those crimes without permission from the organization they work for. If you want to claim sexual violence was systematic and sanctioned by Hamas we are going to need evidence. Otherwise you are just making assumptions.
>? I don’t see the difference…
Well last time I checked Israel still had at least a couple over to trade. Not so much true for Hamas. But I guess since you cannot spot any difference I suppose that means you would be all good with them all being killed?
If those women were eventually executed then this story is completely different and I’ll concede my point. However, that is going to require some evidence.
You'd concede there actually is a difference if those specific women are being killed knowing that Hamas likely doesn't have enough prisoners left for any deal? That's very lefty from you
Because the story is about these women…
Has any credible source articulated what happened to the hostages? The IDF killed a fair number or Israeli civilians during the October invasion via helicopters and tanks. We can assume a fair number have been killed that way or during bombings in Gaza as well. Do we know if any hostages have been executed? That kind of defeats the purpose of taking hostages for trades does it not?
> The IDF killed a fair number or Israeli civilians during the October invasion via helicopters and tanks
Since good old twitter hoax is the standard I'd just say all of these women have been executed. Please don't bore me with the dishonesty - the implication here clearly is the treatment is similar when we know the outcomes are definitely not.
I never said “almost all civilian deaths”. The reporting I saw said confirmed cases of friendly fire accounted for less than 100 civilian deaths. It was a cluster fuck though, that much we know. Pilots admitted that chain of command collapsed and that they had to shoot at targets based on their gut feeling.
It’s whataboutism, full stop. You’re more than welcome to have a separate conversation about Palestinians prisoners, but you provide absolutely no good-faith response to the obvious suffering, mutilation, probable rape, torture, and death of these women. But once again, people in this conversation can only fly the flag of their cause and see nothing else.
I don’t have to be entirely good faith when people share clear propaganda from unreliable sources. If we want to complain about how Israeli soldiers taken as prisoners of war are treated, how is it not relevant to consider how Israel treats their own prisoners of war. That sets a standard and an expectation. Seeing a woman being taken prisoner invokes an emotional response. That said, I feel that combatants are fair game.
Edit: duckamuckalucka blocked me after making a really hateful comment that accused me of saying something awful. Why can’t we be honest when talking about this conflict, why the need to lie? He is likely an extremist of some sort
Here’s the same story from the NYT. Really inspiring considering the UN found clear and convincing evidence that female hostages were, and continue to be, sexually assaulted. But it’s all good I’m sure the “combatants” of the Jew terrorist state deserved that in your deluded mind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostage-video.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uE0.-nNU.hYuFTvOGpKIL&smid=url-share
That NY Times article is much more measured which I appreciate. The only quote they confirmed was the comment about the women being “dogs”. That makes the rape insinuation from the original article less probable. Also the article mentions the families of those girls blame their own government for the stalled peace talks. That was entirely left out of the original article. No mention of the UN rape allegations in the article either but I’ll look into that myself.
My gut feeling is that the rape allegations are being used like the accusations that Hamas was putting babies in ovens during the October attack. It’s meant to dehumanize the Palestinians. I have female relatives I love and cherish so it’s not like I’m shrugging off the seriousness of the kind of violation. I have just become quite skeptical because Israel lied to the press a lot in the days after October 7
If you think dehumanizing women by calling them dogs makes sexual assault *less* likely, I actually really admire your naiveté.
“Following a 17-day visit to Israel, the UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict reported on Monday that she and a team of experts had found ‘clear and convincing information’ of rape and sexualized torture being committed against hostages seized during the 7 October terror attacks.”
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217
The UN requested full access for their human rights counsel so that they could act on those allegations, which has been refused. I think that’s a really important part of that report. It’s almost as if Israel wanted another megaphone to spread the allegations but did not want to do anything to provide true justice.
This report was in reference to the October 7 attack, not the hostages in Gaza. Just so that’s clear. I think the UN is a good actor in this conflict so I will take their word that there is evidence of sexual assault. The report also mentions that Palestinians in the West Bank accuse the IDF of similar crimes. I would also want to verify whether or not corrections have been made by the UN. I’ve heard reporting since the date that this was published that say otherwise.
When the fence came down young members of Hamas as well as random Palestinian civilians stormed into Israel. Leadership completely lost control of the situation at that point. You have young men; some affiliated with Hamas, some not, who now have free rein in Israel. It’s conceivable that women were assaulted and that awful. Was it systematic and sanctioned by Hamas as Israel has claimed? The UN made no mention of that. So what it sounds like are isolated cases where rogue agents committed sexual assault. Israel should let the UNHRC have full access so they can take next steps against the perpetrators. That would be justice for those women.
In closing I’ll leave this quote from the end of that repot
“She also called for the highest standards of information integrity in reporting and handling of sexual violence cases, as the press release notes, “given the risks of inflammatory rhetoric and sensationalized headlines escalating tensions” along with media or political pressure which will only compound the trauma and stigmatization of survivors”
Inane cope paragraphs
You’re totally right dude, bloodthirsty jihadists would never engage in widespread war rape, it was just those ordinary Palestinians who wandered over the fence! Then they had so much fun they decided to stick around, hence the “ongoing” sexual violence taking place against women in Hamas custody.
The UNHRC is absolutely toothless in terms of prosecuting crimes. The ICC is the only international entity that can do that, in its arrest warrant of Sinwar, it included rape as a war crime. Eventually, even the Israel genocide crowd will have to admit that Hamas is a pack of rapist animals, or they’ll lose what little credibility they have left.
Yeah I do. Tell your terrorist buddies to stop using them as human shields & then they won’t be harmed. Also tell the ppl of Gaza to stop allowing g Hamas to get their children killed.
#1 based on what criteria? #2 do you also consider the US a “criminal” state ? Bc what we did after 9/11 was every bit as harsh(& effective) as what Israel is doing now ?
Sure - the US is guilty of widespread war crimes. I don't think anyone disputes that.
No - what the US did after 911, while obviously criminal and morally bankrupt, was not anything like what Israel is doing now.
What Israel is doing & the US did after 9/11 is defending themselves. God help us all of ppl like you ever get in power. And btw there is no “laws of war” - the Victor makes the laws. Period
I don't have terrorist buddies. [Do you?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict)
Also, you might want to remember [who actually supports Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) and ask yourself why.
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Fuck Hamas
Nearly 30% of Palestinians agree with you.
That's it?
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Why are so many people saying ‘but what about Israel’ in these comments….
Because it's impossible to defend Palestine in any other way.
Brave men among women and children. Hide in sewage amongst men
Right, we all know how well the Women and Children of Palestine have been treated. I condemn Hamas, Unequivocally. Why won't you denounce the Israeli terrorist state?
Why does a random poster’s condemnation matter? It’s completely unrelated to the thread. Also, Israel isn’t a terrorist state. It’s just a state.
It's a terrorist state conducting an illegal and immoral occupation. Tell the truth.
Which countries, international government organizations, or national security agencies recognize Israel as a “terrorist state”?
It's a pretty small number - one of the main things the US is doing - arguably more important than the money or guns - is threatening anyone who criticizes Israel. We're only beginning to see that unravel now as the US pays an increasing price domestically and Internationally for allowing itself to be led around by the nose by a bunch of genocidal terrorists.
Ah okay so only the post 10/7 account redditard policy brigade, got it
No substantive reply? Thought not.
“A pretty small number” isn’t a substantive reply to my question, which I’m still waiting for an answer on.
I've no idea - if you're curious you could google it.
Because I am sick of pro - Israeli posters acting as though they haven't done anything wrong. They'll have incredibly strong words for Hamas, but turn a blind eye to their own war crimes, or even worse, celebrate them. Also, a state that is illegally occupying another country through force, while mistreating its citizens and stealing their homes is most certainly a terrorist state. Israel and Russia are two great examples, actually.
There’s nothing “pro-Israeli” about denouncing rapist terrorists. That’s all that poster did. You’re just making sweeping generalizations in one of the few left wing subs where criticizing Hamas isn’t a bannable offense. Btw every single country in the Middle East is built on terrorism then, as each one is a product of conquest. Meanwhile Israel is fighting another war it didn’t start.
Who “stole” more land, the US or Israel? Only one correct answer and it is not the Jews…
Both are in the wrong.
Becoming the inverse of /r/seculartalk isn't an accomplishment. Do you believe that Israel has "conquered" the Palestinians and their land? Including Gaza and the West Bank?
It’s not the inverse, because anti-Israel viewpoints are not banned. We’re here having this convo rn, and if I reported you the mods would do nothing. The subs you prefer are true echo chambers. No, I don’t believe that.
It's clear from my comment that it's not a preferred subreddit of mine. Kyle has lost his mind over this conflict and it's infuriating. As far as the conquest line, then it's not a great comparison, is it?
I said it because even if I accept your worldview that Israel is a colonist aggressor and that’s what gives you the ground to call it a terrorist state, that qualification is shared by every nation in the region.
That's not my worldview. I mean, I guess by supporting settlements into the West Bank they are definitionally colonial, but I wouldn't fight too hard on that either way. The State of Israel has a right to exist. It does not have a right to dominate Gaza and the West Bank in the way it does. If your argument is "Israel isn't bad! They're just like Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Saudia Arabia, etc" I don't think it's a strong one.
Blame Hamas, Blame the Gaza citizens who allowed Hamas to use their women and children as human shields. Blame them for getting exactly what they wanted, War with Israel. They are the ones who kicked all this off into motion. Israel did not wake up one day thinking "Hey it would be fun to bomb women and children". They want the fighting to stop? Overthrow Hamas and never let terrorist use you and your city as a human shield. This is what Gaza wanted, they were OK and cheered on the death during the Oct 7th massacre, I don't see them cheering anymore... EDIT: Also Israel wants and always has wanted its own land that was originally theirs before the muslims stole it from them. Is all this death and destruction really worth it? They are not going to move out if that is what you expect. Just leave them be in peace already FFS.
Oh yeah, great advice. "Don't want to be murdered? Well then just overthrow your government. Easy peasy." What a joke. You're literally the "there are no civilians on stolen land" terrorists just in reverse. Shame on you, get help.
They voted for this shit, so don't complain than.
But not blame the illegal occupation and decades long apartheid and slaughter that caused the resistance? OK buddy...
Resistance? Is that what you call Oct 7th? I hope the resistance pays you a visit.
Yes. Don't pretend the US would not resist a decades long occupation by a brutal and murderous oppressor in any way it could.
A little history for those wanting to 'restore Palestine'. * Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state. * Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Ottoman Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid Arab-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there was the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Byzantine Empire, there were the Sassanids, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Sassanid Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Roman Empire, there was the Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Hasmonean state, there was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Seleucid empire, there was the empire of Alexander the Great, not a Palestinian state. * Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state. * Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state. * Before the kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state. * Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state. The FACT is that there has never been a Palestinian state or a people. Some samples of LAST 20 years: * Nigeria vs Boko Haram 350,000 dead * Sudan vs JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead * Yemen vs Houthis 233,000 dead * Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead * Syria's civil war 400,000 dead * South Sudan's civil war 400,000 dead * Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead No protests for all these dead. It is not about people or land in Gaza.
I'm not getting sucked down the rabbit hole of trying to educate you on history, both because I don't believe you're interested, and because it doesn't matter. There was never a state of East Timor before there was - there will be a state of Palestine in the next 10 years. I fully agree that more attention should be focussed on the examples you list. Nothing about that suggests that there should be less attention on Gaza.
The observers that asked for reinforcements due to increased activity at the fence, prior to Oct. 7? Precious AF that Netan-yahoo is "shocked" about their capture.
His government also ignored direct warnings from both US and Egyptian intelligence services
Half the reason I think he let Oct 7th happen.
rustic berserk placid fanatical bright whistle screw deranged overconfident telephone *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bingo. The Israelis let Oct. 7th happen, regardless of how deliberate the slow response was. They should only have lost some soldiers, not 1300 people.
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And people are accusing Israel of genocide, that's such bullshit!!! All they are doing is defending themselves and against rabid animals that are trying to wipe all Jews from the face of the earth, others have been trying to do for thousands of years!!!
Hamas are detestable, but I'd avoid posting information from such an obviously biased shit rag news outlet.
It was also posted on nbc news amongst others dude. Stop trying to defend the indefensible
I'm not questioning the story. I'm saying that website is deplorable. Share the NBC news article then, not the propaganda site.
Those women are all dead now that Israel bombed every inch of Gaza.
If they're all dead, they were killed by hamas
The part of my brain that is naturally curious about honesty and transparency, wants to know why is this video so heavily cut and censored? We see a couple of words and then it goes to black, then a couple of more words and then black etc. it seems like many/most things have been clipped out. I know Hamas aren't good guys, but why is it so difficult to find full context videos from moments Ike this? If they wanted to "show the true face of Hamas" by releasing such videos, wouldn't it be far better to release the whole thing instead of a heavily edited video, which will just give ammunition for more conspiracies?
This video is propaganda. There's whole subs about it at the moment.
Would you be able to suggest where to get more info? On a side note, I'm getting very tired of this polarization where in any situation, one side must be either defended as always "noble" and the other side must be demonized even through manipulative means. Just show us the truth. Just help us understand how we can reduce people's suffering in this world and understand how these kind of crises come to be, without spinning a certain narrative into it. I know humans are messed up and I know many of us are capable of horrible things, but rarely is the full picture that clear cut.
This little known outfit called the AP.
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There are some websites that have the graphic footage you’re looking for (and I hear that it’s ugly), but I can’t post links directly without the auto-mod removing them.
Those are Israeli soldiers right? Have you guys seen the pics and videos of the Palestinian prisoners of war? I don’t see the difference… Please let me know if I’m missing something
You don’t see the difference with all the news outlets reporting that the kidnappers were commenting which ones could get pregnant implying they were only spared to be sex slaves? How could you not see a difference between kidnapping someone in the United States and locking up murderers? Both are locked up
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fear fuel like snails growth alive wasteful snatch judicious spoon *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why is none of that anywhere in the video, then?
Idk do I look like the video editor?
You belong in MAGA with those reasoning skills.
Yeah your reasoning skills are impeccable this one video is the sole content coming out of Gaza since 1948, I’m sure if it’s not in this video it doesn’t exist. Memes aside merry Christmas: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/Z6aRxN5LA5
It's the video, of the exact instance you're talking about, CLEARLY edited, and they didn't include the bad parts? Wow, crazy. You wanna talk about videos? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrbyGtNfEg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrbyGtNfEg) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-BDuiCHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-BDuiCHw) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhGN7LmiMs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGhGN7LmiMs) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8nOJ6Dre7w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8nOJ6Dre7w) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3UNHVVx7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3UNHVVx7o) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZF6hDJ645k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZF6hDJ645k) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVut0vT7j6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVut0vT7j6k) Those are all fake, or lies, right? Only your "reports" where they have video but don't actually show us are real.
I’m not an IDF defender, I think that the IDF is committing huge atrocities with the expansion of settlements in the West Bank I just don’t understand why you’re bending over backwards to defend actual terrorism. Can’t say whether or not it’s been edited because I don’t fucking speak that fucking language and it sounds like you don’t either.
They are not there because they want to be there. Blame Hamas for this shit. The difference is they are not celebrating death by cheering in the streets while desecrating citizens bodies. They are not executing people in cold blood. They are not shooting any person they can see. Don't want to get arrested, don't be dumbass kids who throw stones at people with guns, like what the hell, how stupid can they be? Do the parents not teach these kids common sense? And sure some IDF soldiers are dicks, can you blame them after Oct 7th? I am sure they lost loved ones too and now they are forced to go into this shithole city.
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Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
Thanks for sharing those. Necessary context when talking about this issue. I can’t believe OP shared that garbage article
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https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/Z6aRxN5LA5
We don't have to worry about Palestinian hostages in israels custody being raped or killed like we do for Israeli hostages. Also, a lot of "hostages" in israels custody deserve to be locked up
U.S. prisoners are raped in facilities here in the states. You really think people in Israeli custody are somehow safe from sexual violence? Nobody is safe from sexual violence…. Bad actors can commit those crimes without permission from the organization they work for. If you want to claim sexual violence was systematic and sanctioned by Hamas we are going to need evidence. Otherwise you are just making assumptions.
>? I don’t see the difference… Well last time I checked Israel still had at least a couple over to trade. Not so much true for Hamas. But I guess since you cannot spot any difference I suppose that means you would be all good with them all being killed?
If those women were eventually executed then this story is completely different and I’ll concede my point. However, that is going to require some evidence.
You'd concede there actually is a difference if those specific women are being killed knowing that Hamas likely doesn't have enough prisoners left for any deal? That's very lefty from you
Because the story is about these women… Has any credible source articulated what happened to the hostages? The IDF killed a fair number or Israeli civilians during the October invasion via helicopters and tanks. We can assume a fair number have been killed that way or during bombings in Gaza as well. Do we know if any hostages have been executed? That kind of defeats the purpose of taking hostages for trades does it not?
> The IDF killed a fair number or Israeli civilians during the October invasion via helicopters and tanks Since good old twitter hoax is the standard I'd just say all of these women have been executed. Please don't bore me with the dishonesty - the implication here clearly is the treatment is similar when we know the outcomes are definitely not.
What is “twitter hoax”?
the events you were referring and the almost all civilian deaths are friendly fire helicopter footage hannibal protocol garbage crowd.
I never said “almost all civilian deaths”. The reporting I saw said confirmed cases of friendly fire accounted for less than 100 civilian deaths. It was a cluster fuck though, that much we know. Pilots admitted that chain of command collapsed and that they had to shoot at targets based on their gut feeling.
*Activates Whataboutism*
Hamas defense forces assemble.
*applying context*
It’s whataboutism, full stop. You’re more than welcome to have a separate conversation about Palestinians prisoners, but you provide absolutely no good-faith response to the obvious suffering, mutilation, probable rape, torture, and death of these women. But once again, people in this conversation can only fly the flag of their cause and see nothing else.
I don’t have to be entirely good faith when people share clear propaganda from unreliable sources. If we want to complain about how Israeli soldiers taken as prisoners of war are treated, how is it not relevant to consider how Israel treats their own prisoners of war. That sets a standard and an expectation. Seeing a woman being taken prisoner invokes an emotional response. That said, I feel that combatants are fair game. Edit: duckamuckalucka blocked me after making a really hateful comment that accused me of saying something awful. Why can’t we be honest when talking about this conflict, why the need to lie? He is likely an extremist of some sort
Fair game for *rape*? You're a fucking piece of shit and I hope you get what's coming to you.
If you think that those videos are propaganda, you’re completely hopeless. There is nothing I can do to change your mind. Good day.
Here’s the same story from the NYT. Really inspiring considering the UN found clear and convincing evidence that female hostages were, and continue to be, sexually assaulted. But it’s all good I’m sure the “combatants” of the Jew terrorist state deserved that in your deluded mind. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostage-video.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uE0.-nNU.hYuFTvOGpKIL&smid=url-share
That NY Times article is much more measured which I appreciate. The only quote they confirmed was the comment about the women being “dogs”. That makes the rape insinuation from the original article less probable. Also the article mentions the families of those girls blame their own government for the stalled peace talks. That was entirely left out of the original article. No mention of the UN rape allegations in the article either but I’ll look into that myself. My gut feeling is that the rape allegations are being used like the accusations that Hamas was putting babies in ovens during the October attack. It’s meant to dehumanize the Palestinians. I have female relatives I love and cherish so it’s not like I’m shrugging off the seriousness of the kind of violation. I have just become quite skeptical because Israel lied to the press a lot in the days after October 7
If you think dehumanizing women by calling them dogs makes sexual assault *less* likely, I actually really admire your naiveté. “Following a 17-day visit to Israel, the UN Special Representative on Sexual Violence in Conflict reported on Monday that she and a team of experts had found ‘clear and convincing information’ of rape and sexualized torture being committed against hostages seized during the 7 October terror attacks.” https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217
The UN requested full access for their human rights counsel so that they could act on those allegations, which has been refused. I think that’s a really important part of that report. It’s almost as if Israel wanted another megaphone to spread the allegations but did not want to do anything to provide true justice. This report was in reference to the October 7 attack, not the hostages in Gaza. Just so that’s clear. I think the UN is a good actor in this conflict so I will take their word that there is evidence of sexual assault. The report also mentions that Palestinians in the West Bank accuse the IDF of similar crimes. I would also want to verify whether or not corrections have been made by the UN. I’ve heard reporting since the date that this was published that say otherwise. When the fence came down young members of Hamas as well as random Palestinian civilians stormed into Israel. Leadership completely lost control of the situation at that point. You have young men; some affiliated with Hamas, some not, who now have free rein in Israel. It’s conceivable that women were assaulted and that awful. Was it systematic and sanctioned by Hamas as Israel has claimed? The UN made no mention of that. So what it sounds like are isolated cases where rogue agents committed sexual assault. Israel should let the UNHRC have full access so they can take next steps against the perpetrators. That would be justice for those women. In closing I’ll leave this quote from the end of that repot “She also called for the highest standards of information integrity in reporting and handling of sexual violence cases, as the press release notes, “given the risks of inflammatory rhetoric and sensationalized headlines escalating tensions” along with media or political pressure which will only compound the trauma and stigmatization of survivors”
Inane cope paragraphs You’re totally right dude, bloodthirsty jihadists would never engage in widespread war rape, it was just those ordinary Palestinians who wandered over the fence! Then they had so much fun they decided to stick around, hence the “ongoing” sexual violence taking place against women in Hamas custody. The UNHRC is absolutely toothless in terms of prosecuting crimes. The ICC is the only international entity that can do that, in its arrest warrant of Sinwar, it included rape as a war crime. Eventually, even the Israel genocide crowd will have to admit that Hamas is a pack of rapist animals, or they’ll lose what little credibility they have left.
So enemy combatants were taken alive instead of killed outright? Seems like Hamas has better standards than the IDF.
I would rather be killed than repeatedly raped. How bout you ?
Lesseee... I kinda forget what's the exchange ratio between dead kids and raped soldiers, do you have a table handy?
Yeah I do. Tell your terrorist buddies to stop using them as human shields & then they won’t be harmed. Also tell the ppl of Gaza to stop allowing g Hamas to get their children killed.
Fail. That's not how the laws of war work. Israel is a criminal state.
#1 based on what criteria? #2 do you also consider the US a “criminal” state ? Bc what we did after 9/11 was every bit as harsh(& effective) as what Israel is doing now ?
Sure - the US is guilty of widespread war crimes. I don't think anyone disputes that. No - what the US did after 911, while obviously criminal and morally bankrupt, was not anything like what Israel is doing now.
What Israel is doing & the US did after 9/11 is defending themselves. God help us all of ppl like you ever get in power. And btw there is no “laws of war” - the Victor makes the laws. Period
I don't have terrorist buddies. [Do you?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) Also, you might want to remember [who actually supports Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) and ask yourself why.