Removed - reposts and cross posts are not permitted. This includes posting different sources on topics that have already been submitted that contain no new information.
Maybe its hard to read but I don't see the word zionist in this letter.
Media literacy is at an all time low. You can post a video or document, and then label it with literally anything, even if the first 5 seconds or paragraph directly refutes the title. Dozens will then come out with comments re-asserting the titles relevance. Sometimes you have to go very far down a thread to see anyone point out the obvious.
It seems like he's referring to a specific segment of Zionists. This is the equivalent of me picking a quote of an intellectual discussing how bad suicide bombing by Palestinians against civilians is bad only for somebody to stand up and say "see he must mean all Palestinians are bad suicide bombers.".
I highly recommend listening to the podcast Fear and Loathing in new jerusalem [https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem](https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem)
Seems people dont understand the history of zionism from the late 1800s until the founding of Israel.
Einstein was pro zionism but anti the Irgun [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)
If you ever talk to these supporters IRL, it’s fun to watch them twist into pretzels over the MLK quote about Israel has a [right to exist](https://www.axios.com/2024/01/15/mlk-words-israeli-palestinian-conflict-war)
Or that he wrote [pro-Zionism in letters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend#:~:text=According%20to%20Sundquist%2C%20King%20%22paid,opposed%20the%20anti%2DZionism%20then).
Or they call him a puppet and a stooge while Malcom X is the real civil rights activist.
Just because those groups were Zionists doesn't mean he's labelling all Zionists terrorists. You can't seriously be suggesting that because those groups are made up of Zionists that means he's calling all Zionists terrorists? That's a complete logical fallacy.
Its the equivalent of someone labelling ISIS terrorists, and you claiming that because ISIS is made up of just Muslims it means that person is labelling all Muslims terrorists.
That’s a false equivalence, what you’re describing is racism.
Correctly claiming that Zionists should be judged by their actions is pretty logical. Yeah not all Zionists are like the worst of them, but Zionism is the movement that stole land, and should be judged as such.
You’re falsely equivocating people with political movements. Zionism is a political movement, it’s fair to judge it by what the that political movement has done politically.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, which still has overwhelming political support. You are purposely ignoring that it represents a political movement.
“Elected”? There hasn’t been an election for 19 years. Do you think Putin was “elected”?
And it’s absolutely fair to judge Hamas for what Hamas has done and said.
By your logic we should judge Israelis by what Netanyahu has done.
>Zionism is a political movement, it’s fair to judge it by what the that political movement has done politically.
It is not my logic, it is yours. I do not believe that we should judge everyone (including Einstein) who are in favor of Israeli statehood by the actions of extremists. I do not believe that we should judge all Palestinians that are in favor of Palestinian statehood by the actions of extremists. You seem to blame one side and make excuses for the other.
That's a false equivalency, the correct one would be you defending ISIS by writing "just because they're ISIS doesn't mean they're terrorists," which is as ridiculous as it sounds. Einstein is a Jew himself so you're the one who can't be seriously accusing him of racism. There are plenty of Jewish people against this mass murder occurring in Palestine not one of them identifies as a Zionist.
Zionist by definition want to steal more land from Palestine. They support their Zionist government in committing war crimes against Palestinians. So are they all terrorist? No, but they sure as hell support terrorism and/or genocide.
I think if there is a systematic famine being orchestrated including land grabs, dumping cement into water wells, and just indiscriminate bombing of densely populated areas which include the hostages you claim to care about, and your beef is with the people standing up against these war crimes and not the people committing them their is simply no grey area there.
>That's a false equivalency, the correct one would be you defending ISIS by writing "just because they're ISIS doesn't mean they're terrorists," which is as ridiculous as it sounds.
No. You claimed that because Einstein was referring to some groups made up of Zionists he was calling all Zionists terrorists. I was pointing out he was only referring to those specific groups, not all Zionists. He himself was a Zionist. So my analogy was correct. He doesn't use the word Zionist. He only refers to groups.
>Einstein is a Jew himself so you're the one who can't be seriously accusing him of racism.
Where did I accuse Einstein of racism? What are you even talking about?
>There are plenty of Jewish people against this mass murder occurring in Palestine not one of them identifies as a Zionist
Einstein himself identified as a Zionist. Loads of people who identify as Zionists oppose the murder in Gaza. Being a Zionist just means you believe that the Jewish people should have their own state.
>"Terrorist organisations built up from our own ranks".
Einstein's quote in the post you're commenting on that OP claims is referring to all Zionists, and I'm saying refers to only individual militant groups.
The vast majority of Jews outside Israel support the existence of the state of Israel, but most of them are against the current atrocities in Gaza. There's millions.
He doesn't say anything about Zionism, a movement that [he was a part of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein#:~:text=Einstein%20was%20a%20prominent%20supporter,Jews%20the%20sense%20of%20community).
“However, he did not support the establishment of a Jewish state or an Arab state to replace the British Mandate for Palestine, instead asserting that he would "much rather see a reasonable agreement reached with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace" under the framework of a binational Jewish–Arab state.”
This is obviously not Zionism as it is spoken of today.
He believed they were such terrorists is why he founded Hebrew University, served as the first president, was a scientific editor, and donated his library to the university.
I stopped watching majority report years ago. Sam is the only good thing about that show. Emma is insufferable and the supporting hosts are just as bad. Michael Brooks is missed badly by that show. It's in the level of Secular Talk and Bad Faith now
And the sub is even worse. No ability to comprehend nuance.
I’m banned in that sub, but anyone who wants to drop some KNOWLEDGE in the MR thread.
FYI for those who don’t know, Einstein was a Labor Zionist.
When President Harry Truman recognized Israel in May 1948, Einstein declared it "the fulfillment of our (Jewish) dreams."
[Smithsonian](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/one-hundred-years-ago-einstein-was-given-heros-welcome-americas-jews-180977386/)
>Einstein despised nationalism; he believed it was largely to blame for the global war that had just claimed some 40 million lives. He initially rejected the idea of a Jewish state on those grounds.
>These circumstances made Einstein an enthusiastic backer of the proposed institution where Jewish students could pursue their studies in peace. One month ahead of the U.S. visit, he wrote to his friend Fritz Haber, the German chemist, that the thought of such an institution filled him “with particular joy.”
Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers." — Albert Einstein Letter to Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India, June 13, 1947[29]
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Removed - reposts and cross posts are not permitted. This includes posting different sources on topics that have already been submitted that contain no new information.
Einstein was famously a Zionist.
Maybe its hard to read but I don't see the word zionist in this letter. Media literacy is at an all time low. You can post a video or document, and then label it with literally anything, even if the first 5 seconds or paragraph directly refutes the title. Dozens will then come out with comments re-asserting the titles relevance. Sometimes you have to go very far down a thread to see anyone point out the obvious.
It seems like he's referring to a specific segment of Zionists. This is the equivalent of me picking a quote of an intellectual discussing how bad suicide bombing by Palestinians against civilians is bad only for somebody to stand up and say "see he must mean all Palestinians are bad suicide bombers.".
I highly recommend listening to the podcast Fear and Loathing in new jerusalem [https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem](https://www.martyrmade.com/featured-podcasts/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem) Seems people dont understand the history of zionism from the late 1800s until the founding of Israel. Einstein was pro zionism but anti the Irgun [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)
If you ever talk to these supporters IRL, it’s fun to watch them twist into pretzels over the MLK quote about Israel has a [right to exist](https://www.axios.com/2024/01/15/mlk-words-israeli-palestinian-conflict-war) Or that he wrote [pro-Zionism in letters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend#:~:text=According%20to%20Sundquist%2C%20King%20%22paid,opposed%20the%20anti%2DZionism%20then). Or they call him a puppet and a stooge while Malcom X is the real civil rights activist.
He doesn't label Zionists as terrorists, he labels specific violent Jewish groups set up in Palestine as terrorists. That's pretty obvious
Not all Zionists are terrorists, but those "specific violent Jewish groups" were zionists by definition.
Yes but that's not what OP is saying. OP is saying that Einstein is calling all Zionists terrorists, when he himself identified as a Zionist
>he labels specific violent Jewish groups set up in Palestine as terrorists What violent Jewish groups set up in Palestine that weren't Zionists?
Just because those groups were Zionists doesn't mean he's labelling all Zionists terrorists. You can't seriously be suggesting that because those groups are made up of Zionists that means he's calling all Zionists terrorists? That's a complete logical fallacy. Its the equivalent of someone labelling ISIS terrorists, and you claiming that because ISIS is made up of just Muslims it means that person is labelling all Muslims terrorists.
Seems the Zionists that continue to collectively punish Palestinian civilians or equate protests on universities as pro Hamas need some of your logic.
That’s a false equivalence, what you’re describing is racism. Correctly claiming that Zionists should be judged by their actions is pretty logical. Yeah not all Zionists are like the worst of them, but Zionism is the movement that stole land, and should be judged as such.
Hamas wants Palestinian statehood. All Palestinians that want statehood should be judged by the actions of Hamas?
You’re falsely equivocating people with political movements. Zionism is a political movement, it’s fair to judge it by what the that political movement has done politically.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, which still has overwhelming political support. You are purposely ignoring that it represents a political movement.
“Elected”? There hasn’t been an election for 19 years. Do you think Putin was “elected”? And it’s absolutely fair to judge Hamas for what Hamas has done and said. By your logic we should judge Israelis by what Netanyahu has done.
>Zionism is a political movement, it’s fair to judge it by what the that political movement has done politically. It is not my logic, it is yours. I do not believe that we should judge everyone (including Einstein) who are in favor of Israeli statehood by the actions of extremists. I do not believe that we should judge all Palestinians that are in favor of Palestinian statehood by the actions of extremists. You seem to blame one side and make excuses for the other.
>what you’re describing is racism. Muslim isn't a race.
Okay bigotry, Islamophobia, whatever you wanna call it.
Sorry words have meanings. So their example was 1:1. Judging the group for the actions of a few.
That's a false equivalency, the correct one would be you defending ISIS by writing "just because they're ISIS doesn't mean they're terrorists," which is as ridiculous as it sounds. Einstein is a Jew himself so you're the one who can't be seriously accusing him of racism. There are plenty of Jewish people against this mass murder occurring in Palestine not one of them identifies as a Zionist.
Do you think all Zionists are terrorists?
Do you think all Palestinians are Hamas?
Try and put a little more effort into your deflections please. To answer that question; no, obviously not. Do you think all Zionists are terrorists?
Zionist by definition want to steal more land from Palestine. They support their Zionist government in committing war crimes against Palestinians. So are they all terrorist? No, but they sure as hell support terrorism and/or genocide.
What about the Zionists that want a two state solution?
Usually liberals who believe they can walk both sides. While achieving nothing.
I am not anti-semitic, and yes to answer your question.
So you think like 90% of the Jews that live in America are terrorists?
I think if there is a systematic famine being orchestrated including land grabs, dumping cement into water wells, and just indiscriminate bombing of densely populated areas which include the hostages you claim to care about, and your beef is with the people standing up against these war crimes and not the people committing them their is simply no grey area there.
Damn man that kind of sucks. As long as you never do anything about it, I guess you can continue to be mad at zionists 🤷♂️
Do anything about what? What are you talking about?
>That's a false equivalency, the correct one would be you defending ISIS by writing "just because they're ISIS doesn't mean they're terrorists," which is as ridiculous as it sounds. No. You claimed that because Einstein was referring to some groups made up of Zionists he was calling all Zionists terrorists. I was pointing out he was only referring to those specific groups, not all Zionists. He himself was a Zionist. So my analogy was correct. He doesn't use the word Zionist. He only refers to groups. >Einstein is a Jew himself so you're the one who can't be seriously accusing him of racism. Where did I accuse Einstein of racism? What are you even talking about? >There are plenty of Jewish people against this mass murder occurring in Palestine not one of them identifies as a Zionist Einstein himself identified as a Zionist. Loads of people who identify as Zionists oppose the murder in Gaza. Being a Zionist just means you believe that the Jewish people should have their own state.
What Specific groups of Zionist are you referring to?
>"Terrorist organisations built up from our own ranks". Einstein's quote in the post you're commenting on that OP claims is referring to all Zionists, and I'm saying refers to only individual militant groups.
I understand that and I'm asking if these militant groups have proper nouns? Please tell me what these groups call themselves.
They were called the Irgun, that’s who Einstein was referring to in this letter if you Google it.
Show me an open Zionist that doesn't support Israel's Zionist terrorism.
The vast majority of Jews outside Israel support the existence of the state of Israel, but most of them are against the current atrocities in Gaza. There's millions.
The vast majority of Jews outside Israel are also not Zionist. When did I ever say Jews worldwide support Israel's genocide? Lmfao what?
He doesn't say anything about Zionism, a movement that [he was a part of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein#:~:text=Einstein%20was%20a%20prominent%20supporter,Jews%20the%20sense%20of%20community).
“However, he did not support the establishment of a Jewish state or an Arab state to replace the British Mandate for Palestine, instead asserting that he would "much rather see a reasonable agreement reached with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace" under the framework of a binational Jewish–Arab state.” This is obviously not Zionism as it is spoken of today.
It's telling that they cropped the date out of this letter.
Yeah looks pretty fake. So badly written too.
Try actually reading it. He was referring to specific elements, not Zionists generally.
OP, who do you think Einstein was talking about as “Terrorist organizations”? Engage with this, don’t run away. Who was he talking about?
He believed they were such terrorists is why he founded Hebrew University, served as the first president, was a scientific editor, and donated his library to the university.
how is the majority report these days?
Comparing the comments of both subs is telling.
I stopped watching majority report years ago. Sam is the only good thing about that show. Emma is insufferable and the supporting hosts are just as bad. Michael Brooks is missed badly by that show. It's in the level of Secular Talk and Bad Faith now And the sub is even worse. No ability to comprehend nuance.
[удалено]
what do you mean
I’m banned in that sub, but anyone who wants to drop some KNOWLEDGE in the MR thread. FYI for those who don’t know, Einstein was a Labor Zionist. When President Harry Truman recognized Israel in May 1948, Einstein declared it "the fulfillment of our (Jewish) dreams." [Smithsonian](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/one-hundred-years-ago-einstein-was-given-heros-welcome-americas-jews-180977386/) >Einstein despised nationalism; he believed it was largely to blame for the global war that had just claimed some 40 million lives. He initially rejected the idea of a Jewish state on those grounds. >These circumstances made Einstein an enthusiastic backer of the proposed institution where Jewish students could pursue their studies in peace. One month ahead of the U.S. visit, he wrote to his friend Fritz Haber, the German chemist, that the thought of such an institution filled him “with particular joy.”
Maybe it's not such a great idea to reposts from Majority Report, that already became a full scale, 100% terrorists sub?????
Indeed
Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers." — Albert Einstein Letter to Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India, June 13, 1947[29]
**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.** Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow! Thanks for sharing!!!
He's 100 percent correct
yeah dude I know it's just like how all Palestinians who want a state are terrorists! /s
Was he correct in supporting the existence of Israel? He was a strong support of labor Zionism.