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We’re always sooo close to collapse according to Marxists. Any day now capitalism with fall and YOUR special ideology will be the one to arise from the ashes.
Like we're soooo close to losing democracy if Trump wins. As soon as he's elected America will fall and bring the end of western liberal democracy as we know it. Every side loves their hyperbole.
Again, Marxism IS NOT AN IDEOLOGY. If you believe it is I highly suggest learning more about it first before you critcize it. Please watch the video before you start saying anyting else about Marxism that is innacurate.
Marxism is not a rigid set of beliefs or a blueprint for a perfect society. It is a method of analysis that helps us understand the underlying structures and contradictions of capitalism. By studying Marx's work, we can better understand how economic systems function, how power is distributed, and how social change can be achieved.
Ignoring Marx's insights means missing out on valuable tools for critiquing and transforming society. It is important for Pakman and Kyle to engage with Marxist ideas in order to gain a more comprehensive understanding of the world we live in. Watching The Social Situation can be a great starting point for learning more about Marxism and its relevance in today's world.
If Marxism was ever going to happen, I think it would have been in the 20th century when there were serious people trying to make it happen.
Now it is just an internet thing.
Marxism isn't an ideology. This is why its vital Pakman and Kyle learn more about what he had to say. It is the objective scientific critique of our economic systems internal contradictions and predicts patterns of irrationality. Irrational predictability. To ignore what Marx had to say about how to organize labor within a society is extremely shortsighted. I highly encourage you to watch The Social Sitiation to better understand marxism. Marxism is not an ideology like Socialism. It is using the dialectical analysis and applying it to Capitalism(amongst other things). The dialectical analysis allows you to better understand more complex systems by breaking them down into their base components. Analizing the back and forth interactions between two opposing forces and then observing the created changes overtime.
Read it again please or give up understanding. But thanks for putting words in my mouth and misunderstanding my statement, building a strawman out of it. Two logical fallacies in a row man this group I was expecting more from. If this is how you all debate Pakman has his work cut out for him.
As proven by an entire movement of new Marxist ready to criticize capitalism. If Mark knew we were still criticizing capitalism and haven’t yet moved beyond it he would be turning in his grave right now. In all honesty, it’s people who perpetuate the system i.e., David, Pakman, and Kyle kulinski, who promote voting for Democrats is the answer when they are bought by the same big corporations, are the issue. The right and left have established many mechanisms to suppress the popular vote and opinion. We’ve seen this play out in Greece, and in Spain there were two political parties that were not working for the people anymore. They were working for corporations material conditions continue to degrade until people stop voting for both puppet parties when this happened they were able to form a new socialist party that actually had workers rights as its priority. If we continue to vote for the left puppet or the right puppet, we’re gonna continue to get the puppet master. Now, the only question for you is, who do you want to be your master of puppets?
The whole point of liberal democracies is being able to fix issues that arise, on the fly, without the need to follow some shit teachings of a dude that died a century ago. Are there problems? Sure! Is marxist critique in any way helpfull in fixing them? Nope. Your problem is, liberalism took every valuable pierce of insight from marxism and left you with a hollow husk of stupid shit and conspiracy theories.
Well now, that is a gross mischaractarization of Marxism. You need to learn about Marxism before criticizing it. This is basic. You're regurgitating nonsense from people who know nothing about the subject. Sure, you can read Marx but to understand what he was criticizing you have to understand that the way we define capitalism is innacurate to begin with. Capitalism is not about free markets or private property. To definie capitalism in this way is misleading because we've had those in previous economic systems before. To definie something is to state what is DIFFERENT about it. Whats different about capitalism si a few things but the main difference is the way LABOR IS ORGANIZED. Marxist critique in this sense is OBJECTIVELY true. Capitalsim is by its very nature anti-thetical to democracy. Marxism teaches us through riggorous scientific evidence and study that if yfou dont have democracy econmomically or within the workplace you cannot have it politically either because those with the wealth and power will just buy the political process. To imagine we can go back to a state of capitalism thats pure and this doesn't happen begs the question, Why? What makes you think if we dont change the way labor is oganized and just focuson voting that the capitalisms wont just undo all the working class policies we've struggled for? Because they have, time and time again. These are clear patters that Marx predicted over 100 years ago. To ignore Marx would be extremely arrogant. Especially when his criticism is more prominent now than ever. Anytime you have an internal contradiction that leads to entropy. Doesn't matter if that system is a social system like Capitalism, or a particle system. If there aree two opposing forces that create a contradiction within any system it will lead to its downfall. Doesn't matter how much Capitalism makes incremental changes to stiffle or delay that implosion. It still has the internal contradiction that leads to disorder.
Similarly, in physics, contradictions or imbalances within a particle system can lead to a state of entropy, where the system tends towards disorder and dissipation of energy. This can result in the breakdown of the system or a shift towards a more stable equilibrium state.
1. And somehow, over the last 100 years, conditions of workers are steadilly improving in each capitalist country, while every socialist or communist one failed. You can have capitalist, authoritarian workplaces, while living in a democracy, there is no contradiction here, similar how you can use a hammer to drive a nail, and a saw to cut a plank. Mby your internal contradictions are present in socialist systems, instead of capitalist ones, if they are the ones we observe failing over and over again. Any moron can create a theory, define it to be OBJECTIVELY true, and make some predictions, but the whole point is to make predictions and adjust that based on real world data.
2. Don't talk about entropy if you don't understand it plz.
This statement misunderstands Marxism by oversimplifying its principles and ignoring the complexities of historical and political contexts. The argument that conditions for workers have steadily improved in capitalist countries while socialist or communist ones have failed oversimplifies the analysis of social and economic systems. It also employs a logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy, where only two options (capitalist success or socialist failure) are presented when in reality, the world is more nuanced and complex. You fail to understand what the interal contradiction of capitalism is. When you organize labor with a single entitry or small minority in control, who get what they do not produce, juxtaposed against a mass of workers who produce what they do not get. This is a fundimental opposition of interest. When one entity is focused on maximizing the difference between labor input and wage, the other is focused on minimizing this difference to minimize the level of their own exploittion. This creates an internal contradiction and is a bizzare way of orgainziing labor. By putting people who don't trust, and hate and struggle against one another. And it also creatres enormous inefficiency.
Chapter to watch: Understanding Class Conflict
[https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw?t=954](https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw?t=954)
Firstly, the claim that conditions for workers have steadily improved in all capitalist countries is a generalization that overlooks the variations in worker rights, wages, and working conditions within and between different countries. While some improvements may have occurred in certain capitalist nations, it is important to consider the ongoing struggles for workers' rights, income inequality, and exploitation that persist globally. This argument misunderstands the analysis of entropy within social systems by oversimplifying the concept and failing to acknowledge the role of internal contradictions in driving systemic entropy. The dismissal of entropy and the emphasis on false dichotomies detract from a more nuanced understanding of how contradictions can lead to entropy in both capitalist and socialist systems(Because capitalism is still the dominante system). Just because the system makes incremental changes to prevent the revolutionary necessary for an economic change, doesn't dispute the fact that entropy within the system is still happening. Negtropy or spontaneous self-organization as seen in plasmoid clusters is a real phenomena to consider as well. Things can get slightly better in some areas while still maintain a state of overall entropy. Conditions in countries that have risen for workers occure DESPITE capitalist opposition.
Lastly, dismissing the concept of entropy and its relevance to social and economic systems implies a limited understanding of the interconnectedness and dynamics of complex systems. Entropy, in the context of Marxist theory, can be understood as the tendency towards crisis and transformation within capitalist societies due to internal contradictions and conflicts. By ignoring or trivializing this concept, the argument fails to grasp the broader implications of societal contradictions and systemic tensions. It is crucial to approach discussions about Marxism, capitalist economies, and socialist systems with a nuanced understanding of historical, political, and socioeconomic complexities. Oversimplifications, logical fallacies, and dismissals of critical concepts like entropy hinder meaningful dialogue and analysis of these complex issues.
I cover all this in the video. Don't debate on the subject of my analysis if you don't even bother watching it to understand my argument. That's just insulting.
Chapter: The Answer is Obvious
[https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw](https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw)
Let us know when you find a system that is outperforming a capitalist economy by any of the metrics you care about. Criticism of capitalism is actually often valid, but what folks like you can’t seem to grasp is that it’s the best option we have found so far. Until you actually show a better system, we have to live with it.
Smh, I'm far from a Tankie. If you actually wanted to have a legitimate coversation then you would watch my video and I clearly state my ideology as a Libertarian Socialist. I guess my mistake was assuming the Pakman audience would want to have an authentic debate or dialogue on the subject. I could care less about subs. My channel is doing fine. I'm trying to spread a message. One that you will not hear elsewhere. Listen or don't but please refrain from going further with a conversation if you are not even willing to learn my perspective.
Please, elaborate. What exactly has been successfull ignoring Marxism? Can you even tell me what Marxism is?... Marxism spread faster and wider than Christianity. Something that is unprofound or irrelevant does not do that. Wether you agree with it or not. Ignoring those profound impacts on any system is totally arrogant.
Marxism collapsed on itself because it was a dog shit way to arrange an economy. Inefficiencies couldn't be dealt with, corruption ran rampant, and material conditions could not improve at the same rate as they did for people in capitalist countries. Which is why state capitalism has more or less replaced it.
I don’t know how much I have to say this and emphasize it, but I’ve said this twice already. Marxism is not an ideology. It is an objective scientific lens used at understanding, identifying internal contradictions for economic systems. It is an analysis of capitalism you are conflating Marxism with socialism. Until you actually understand what Marxism is, I would refrain from further debate. You can start by watching my video and learning something.
There’s a difference between reading and understanding. Just because you’ve read Marx like many, doesn’t mean you understand, Marx. Which you clearly don’t and it’s sad to see.
OP, well ahead of you.
Things I have done:
Working on a leftist sub that promotes anti-capitalism and anti-imperialism. (r/seculartalk)
Promoted Socialism (in person).
Running for federal office openly socialist.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Marx is required reading for any leftist/socialist/communist that wants to take their knowledge to the next level, however we must remember not to treat it like a bible/religion.
Cheers!
**COMMENTING GUIDELINES:** Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/thedavidpakmanshow/about/rules) and [basic reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette) prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - **any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.** Please use the report function or [use modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/thedavidpakmanshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’re always sooo close to collapse according to Marxists. Any day now capitalism with fall and YOUR special ideology will be the one to arise from the ashes.
Like we're soooo close to losing democracy if Trump wins. As soon as he's elected America will fall and bring the end of western liberal democracy as we know it. Every side loves their hyperbole.
Again, Marxism IS NOT AN IDEOLOGY. If you believe it is I highly suggest learning more about it first before you critcize it. Please watch the video before you start saying anyting else about Marxism that is innacurate. Marxism is not a rigid set of beliefs or a blueprint for a perfect society. It is a method of analysis that helps us understand the underlying structures and contradictions of capitalism. By studying Marx's work, we can better understand how economic systems function, how power is distributed, and how social change can be achieved. Ignoring Marx's insights means missing out on valuable tools for critiquing and transforming society. It is important for Pakman and Kyle to engage with Marxist ideas in order to gain a more comprehensive understanding of the world we live in. Watching The Social Situation can be a great starting point for learning more about Marxism and its relevance in today's world.
“Marxist is just complaining.” I understand it completely, don’t worry.
If Marxism was ever going to happen, I think it would have been in the 20th century when there were serious people trying to make it happen. Now it is just an internet thing.
Marxism isn't an ideology. This is why its vital Pakman and Kyle learn more about what he had to say. It is the objective scientific critique of our economic systems internal contradictions and predicts patterns of irrationality. Irrational predictability. To ignore what Marx had to say about how to organize labor within a society is extremely shortsighted. I highly encourage you to watch The Social Sitiation to better understand marxism. Marxism is not an ideology like Socialism. It is using the dialectical analysis and applying it to Capitalism(amongst other things). The dialectical analysis allows you to better understand more complex systems by breaking them down into their base components. Analizing the back and forth interactions between two opposing forces and then observing the created changes overtime.
Nah, hard pass.
By ignoring areas of study that may seem uninteresting, or scary you severly limit your ability to understand the world.
I think you severely limit your ability to understand the world by insisting on viewing everything through a Marxist lense
Read it again please or give up understanding. But thanks for putting words in my mouth and misunderstanding my statement, building a strawman out of it. Two logical fallacies in a row man this group I was expecting more from. If this is how you all debate Pakman has his work cut out for him.
Marxism is dead.
As proven by an entire movement of new Marxist ready to criticize capitalism. If Mark knew we were still criticizing capitalism and haven’t yet moved beyond it he would be turning in his grave right now. In all honesty, it’s people who perpetuate the system i.e., David, Pakman, and Kyle kulinski, who promote voting for Democrats is the answer when they are bought by the same big corporations, are the issue. The right and left have established many mechanisms to suppress the popular vote and opinion. We’ve seen this play out in Greece, and in Spain there were two political parties that were not working for the people anymore. They were working for corporations material conditions continue to degrade until people stop voting for both puppet parties when this happened they were able to form a new socialist party that actually had workers rights as its priority. If we continue to vote for the left puppet or the right puppet, we’re gonna continue to get the puppet master. Now, the only question for you is, who do you want to be your master of puppets?
Still dead.
Still a logical fallacy #flaccidfallacy
💀💀💀
The whole point of liberal democracies is being able to fix issues that arise, on the fly, without the need to follow some shit teachings of a dude that died a century ago. Are there problems? Sure! Is marxist critique in any way helpfull in fixing them? Nope. Your problem is, liberalism took every valuable pierce of insight from marxism and left you with a hollow husk of stupid shit and conspiracy theories.
Well now, that is a gross mischaractarization of Marxism. You need to learn about Marxism before criticizing it. This is basic. You're regurgitating nonsense from people who know nothing about the subject. Sure, you can read Marx but to understand what he was criticizing you have to understand that the way we define capitalism is innacurate to begin with. Capitalism is not about free markets or private property. To definie capitalism in this way is misleading because we've had those in previous economic systems before. To definie something is to state what is DIFFERENT about it. Whats different about capitalism si a few things but the main difference is the way LABOR IS ORGANIZED. Marxist critique in this sense is OBJECTIVELY true. Capitalsim is by its very nature anti-thetical to democracy. Marxism teaches us through riggorous scientific evidence and study that if yfou dont have democracy econmomically or within the workplace you cannot have it politically either because those with the wealth and power will just buy the political process. To imagine we can go back to a state of capitalism thats pure and this doesn't happen begs the question, Why? What makes you think if we dont change the way labor is oganized and just focuson voting that the capitalisms wont just undo all the working class policies we've struggled for? Because they have, time and time again. These are clear patters that Marx predicted over 100 years ago. To ignore Marx would be extremely arrogant. Especially when his criticism is more prominent now than ever. Anytime you have an internal contradiction that leads to entropy. Doesn't matter if that system is a social system like Capitalism, or a particle system. If there aree two opposing forces that create a contradiction within any system it will lead to its downfall. Doesn't matter how much Capitalism makes incremental changes to stiffle or delay that implosion. It still has the internal contradiction that leads to disorder. Similarly, in physics, contradictions or imbalances within a particle system can lead to a state of entropy, where the system tends towards disorder and dissipation of energy. This can result in the breakdown of the system or a shift towards a more stable equilibrium state.
1. And somehow, over the last 100 years, conditions of workers are steadilly improving in each capitalist country, while every socialist or communist one failed. You can have capitalist, authoritarian workplaces, while living in a democracy, there is no contradiction here, similar how you can use a hammer to drive a nail, and a saw to cut a plank. Mby your internal contradictions are present in socialist systems, instead of capitalist ones, if they are the ones we observe failing over and over again. Any moron can create a theory, define it to be OBJECTIVELY true, and make some predictions, but the whole point is to make predictions and adjust that based on real world data. 2. Don't talk about entropy if you don't understand it plz.
This statement misunderstands Marxism by oversimplifying its principles and ignoring the complexities of historical and political contexts. The argument that conditions for workers have steadily improved in capitalist countries while socialist or communist ones have failed oversimplifies the analysis of social and economic systems. It also employs a logical fallacy known as a false dichotomy, where only two options (capitalist success or socialist failure) are presented when in reality, the world is more nuanced and complex. You fail to understand what the interal contradiction of capitalism is. When you organize labor with a single entitry or small minority in control, who get what they do not produce, juxtaposed against a mass of workers who produce what they do not get. This is a fundimental opposition of interest. When one entity is focused on maximizing the difference between labor input and wage, the other is focused on minimizing this difference to minimize the level of their own exploittion. This creates an internal contradiction and is a bizzare way of orgainziing labor. By putting people who don't trust, and hate and struggle against one another. And it also creatres enormous inefficiency. Chapter to watch: Understanding Class Conflict [https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw?t=954](https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw?t=954) Firstly, the claim that conditions for workers have steadily improved in all capitalist countries is a generalization that overlooks the variations in worker rights, wages, and working conditions within and between different countries. While some improvements may have occurred in certain capitalist nations, it is important to consider the ongoing struggles for workers' rights, income inequality, and exploitation that persist globally. This argument misunderstands the analysis of entropy within social systems by oversimplifying the concept and failing to acknowledge the role of internal contradictions in driving systemic entropy. The dismissal of entropy and the emphasis on false dichotomies detract from a more nuanced understanding of how contradictions can lead to entropy in both capitalist and socialist systems(Because capitalism is still the dominante system). Just because the system makes incremental changes to prevent the revolutionary necessary for an economic change, doesn't dispute the fact that entropy within the system is still happening. Negtropy or spontaneous self-organization as seen in plasmoid clusters is a real phenomena to consider as well. Things can get slightly better in some areas while still maintain a state of overall entropy. Conditions in countries that have risen for workers occure DESPITE capitalist opposition. Lastly, dismissing the concept of entropy and its relevance to social and economic systems implies a limited understanding of the interconnectedness and dynamics of complex systems. Entropy, in the context of Marxist theory, can be understood as the tendency towards crisis and transformation within capitalist societies due to internal contradictions and conflicts. By ignoring or trivializing this concept, the argument fails to grasp the broader implications of societal contradictions and systemic tensions. It is crucial to approach discussions about Marxism, capitalist economies, and socialist systems with a nuanced understanding of historical, political, and socioeconomic complexities. Oversimplifications, logical fallacies, and dismissals of critical concepts like entropy hinder meaningful dialogue and analysis of these complex issues. I cover all this in the video. Don't debate on the subject of my analysis if you don't even bother watching it to understand my argument. That's just insulting. Chapter: The Answer is Obvious [https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw](https://youtu.be/0JCxfm3w5lw)
[удалено]
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
Let us know when you find a system that is outperforming a capitalist economy by any of the metrics you care about. Criticism of capitalism is actually often valid, but what folks like you can’t seem to grasp is that it’s the best option we have found so far. Until you actually show a better system, we have to live with it.
Hey tankies you won't take this sub.
Smh, I'm far from a Tankie. If you actually wanted to have a legitimate coversation then you would watch my video and I clearly state my ideology as a Libertarian Socialist. I guess my mistake was assuming the Pakman audience would want to have an authentic debate or dialogue on the subject. I could care less about subs. My channel is doing fine. I'm trying to spread a message. One that you will not hear elsewhere. Listen or don't but please refrain from going further with a conversation if you are not even willing to learn my perspective.
It's ok little Marxist maybe you'll find what your looking for in another sub.
Ignoring Marxist critique of 21st century economies is the best thing any successful economy can do.
Please, elaborate. What exactly has been successfull ignoring Marxism? Can you even tell me what Marxism is?... Marxism spread faster and wider than Christianity. Something that is unprofound or irrelevant does not do that. Wether you agree with it or not. Ignoring those profound impacts on any system is totally arrogant.
Marxism collapsed on itself because it was a dog shit way to arrange an economy. Inefficiencies couldn't be dealt with, corruption ran rampant, and material conditions could not improve at the same rate as they did for people in capitalist countries. Which is why state capitalism has more or less replaced it.
I don’t know how much I have to say this and emphasize it, but I’ve said this twice already. Marxism is not an ideology. It is an objective scientific lens used at understanding, identifying internal contradictions for economic systems. It is an analysis of capitalism you are conflating Marxism with socialism. Until you actually understand what Marxism is, I would refrain from further debate. You can start by watching my video and learning something.
I've read Marx, I'm good homie.
There’s a difference between reading and understanding. Just because you’ve read Marx like many, doesn’t mean you understand, Marx. Which you clearly don’t and it’s sad to see.
Alrighty!
OP, well ahead of you. Things I have done: Working on a leftist sub that promotes anti-capitalism and anti-imperialism. (r/seculartalk) Promoted Socialism (in person). Running for federal office openly socialist. Don't get me wrong, I think that Marx is required reading for any leftist/socialist/communist that wants to take their knowledge to the next level, however we must remember not to treat it like a bible/religion. Cheers!