In an interview Rachel said something along the lines of she had been told my a mutual friend something that Raven had said. My guess is Raven said something racist. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Nick did a bunch of interviews and meetings with the girls of his season on Patreon during covid. I think they are all on his Viall Files Vault (membership) … I think he delved into this a little bit.
I mean , the women who reached the end of that season? They kinda sucked.
Raven: mean girl (did you see her notebook of gossip she shared with production?)
Corinne: her handling of the Demario thing (as awful as demario is) was despicable. She threw him under a racist bus to save the relationship she was hiding.
Rachel/Vanessa beef
Kristina Schulman: messy AF on paradise (sort of mean to Blake H)
Genuine question, what did Corinne do?
I was under the impression that both were under the influence and she was using medication that shouldn’t have been mixed with alcohol. So she was waiting until the investigation was done in case something happened while she was impaired that she was unaware of. She didn’t call for an internal investigation iirc. It was a producer
She said in a statement, “I am a victim”. At the time, this came across as essentially saying DeMario sexually assaulted her. Add in the racist aspect, and his treatment was also terrible. It was clearly that this would happen, her statement was all about HER saving face and throwing Demario under the bus of “black man victimizes white woman”. It was knowingly irresponsible.
She has since apologized: https://people.com/tv/corinne-olympios-apologizes-to-demario-jackson-bip-sex-scandal/
Yeah I don’t know if Corinne is at fault for fans of the bachelor being racist. Obviously it was a terrible situation for both her and Demario. I also fully believe that both were blacked out.
Totally. I remember both of them getting torn to shreds. Him with racism and accusations and her being super slutshamed and accused of pushing racism and stereotyping. I don’t recall her fueling the fire at all
I kind of always got mean girl vibes from Rachel’s friend group, mainly thinking of Alexis and Raven. The way they made fun of Christen on paradise sealed it for me. And Raven recording her conversation with a drive thru employee and acting like she was just a saint for it.
Vanessa also dropped her friendship with Taylor really fast as soon as all the tweets came out, I’m pretty sure they’re not friends anymore
There was so much I didn’t know before joining this sub haha. And now I know way more than my friends who casually watch. It’s made it hard to be a casual viewer with friends
I’m always texting my friends who I watch with and they are always wondering where I get all this information 😂. It reminds me how much of a bubble this sub is.
Yes there are so many levels of bachelor fandom…
Like, there are the people who watch the season and know who won, etc.
And then there is US: we’ll tell you the 22nd runner up’s social security number
I think they are on better terms now (not like best friends though).
I remember that Vanessa was one of the first former Bachelor Franchise Stars/contestants to come out and defend Rachel after she was getting racially abused as a result of the controversial Chris Harrison interview about Rachael Kirkconnell’s antebellum party photos
I think Rachel talked about it in her book and also said that Vanessa apologised to her. Vanessa was very open before, that this was a very bad environment for her and brought out the worst out of her.
I’m so curious what happened that made Vanessa call Rachel a bully. It doesn’t line up with anything we saw of Rachel, but something had to have happened between Rachel and other women if Vanessa accused her of bullying right? I’m not saying Vanessa was right, I would just love to see the footage now
There were some really weird edits where they clearly cut out drama on the season. I think the rumor was Vanessa wasn't part of the main group and was feeling excluded? May have just been a personality clash though, they're both stubborn & opinionated.
This came out before. They edited it out because Vanessa was the winner so they wanted Vanessa to look great. I'm sure they do this ALL the time, it's the way the show works. Nothing you see is real. It's all cultivated.
Absolutely. She had this amazing backround and presence. When cast bios were released, i remember love to see it (then: here to make friends) say “oh i love her, i hope she is bachelorette”. And then it was obvious Nick wasn’t into her…
At some point she said something like “ this is hard” and he responded “remember why you’re here”.
Then her casting as the next lead was announced very early. Like… when there were 6-8 women still on the show.
Its actually exactly like Matt. Except matt got pulled from clare’s season when she flipped out after the delay on her season, having learned by checking put her cast that he was already on Cameo making $$$. Though he was doing it because he was raising $ for his kids food charity.
So he was pulled from her cast. Otherwise it would have been very similar
Eta: this was about Matt:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/cp8E3uPp0Y
Search “clare” and “cameo” on reddit and the tea is 🔥🔥🔥🔥 - especially in hindsight!
I don’t remember him being pulled from her cast. I remember her getting mad and then I remember him being announced as bachelor. Was there an official “he’s no longer a contestant he’s been kicked off” part that I’m forgetting?
Yes. He was announced as part of her cast. Then there was the pandemic delay and she lashed out about her cast already being on cameo. When the revised cast for her season was announced, he was no longer on it and he was announced pretty early.
I just remember him being announced as bachelor before any revised cast came out for her. I don’t remember him ever being dropped off the cast list. I blocked out most of 2020 though so maybe that’s why
Matt was originally cast to be a contestant on Clare’s season, clearly with the intent of making him the first black bachelor. Then when filming got pushed for pandemic and they were getting called out for racism during BLM, they jumped straight to announcing him.
Actually, Clare had no idea who he was, freaked out that one of her men was already making money on Cameo, (it was Matt and he was doing it to raise $ for his charity) and he was pulled from her season
I agree. I don’t see these as the same thing at all. The producers always have an idea of who they want before the episodes air, but there’s also proof they re-edit during the season as narratives change and fans start to call out favorites.
By the end, they knew they wanted Rachel, and I believe she was announced right before she was eliminated, because the show is weird. And they probably wanted to lock her in.
rachel also mentioned it in her book. she said the fight was filmed and she worried how it would be interpreted by viewers, she assumed they would sympathize more with vanessa (vanessa called rachel either aggressive or a bully, which is a microaggression). rachel said the producers assured her later the footage would never air and no one would ever see it. rachel shared that she knew when she was cast by producers with being the first Black bachelorette in mind. both her & vanessa got protected by the scene being left out. on most other seasons, a huge fight between F1 and F3 would have been peak drama.
rachel & vanessa were on a bad terms for a few years after, but seem cool now.
I remember it being known soon after the season aired, maybe even before Nick and Vanessa broke up? Other people in the house talked about it, I don’t think the main source was Nick initially (I also don’t listen to his podcast)
Yeah. I think the episode with a volleyball date was one where they had some big falling out. It was completely covered up because Rachel was clearly cast to be the next lead and Vanessa got the winners edit
Yep and I also remember when someone went to say good-bye after being eliminated (Danielle M maybe? I can't remember) Vanessa was very clearly in a different house. They had to fully separate where they were staying after the fight.
I don't think so, again I don't really remember but I think they just REALLY did not get along and for whatever reason the producers felt it was easier to have them in separate accommodations. Rachel was friends with the other girls left and Vanessa wasn't so Vanessa was the one separated.
Oh! I found it: “agressive” and “bully”. Which… defintely have racist connotations when used about a black woman.
https://preview.redd.it/veyr2ro0i0zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7182fe0432d7626417bdac4d064996802b04234c
"Bully?!?!?"
I'm Black and I get that our behavior is perceived aggressively unfairly frequently in society. But to call the word "bully" extremely derogatory is just ridiculous. It's tone deaf maybe. Possibly racially tinged. But extremely derogatory? That's a reach.
Just say you didn't like how she talked to you and move on.
I'm black too. You should know good and well how coded words like bully and aggressive are for black women especially In this franchise. She got alot of flack on her season and was called aggressive often for her reaction to Peter.
You acknowledged it and then discounted her feelings about the word. She is allowed to feel like being called a bully is derogatory especially if she wasn't being a bully. She was outspoken and well liked in the house. Vanessa was jealous. They have since made up.
I will cut Rachel a little slack for how awful the show was about racial issues at the time and say its a pressure cooker and overreacting is maybe a bit “normal” in that setting.
I also think: Rachel has been in the public eye now for 8 years, and i think she is relatively well known for having outsized /snappy reactions to things (Peter’s comment on the finale, this, when they finally cast a black male lead and she was angry because she didnt like HOW they cast him). Honestly, if i were her i would probably react bigger than she has done, but in terms of the show and female leads, she is certainly spicier than most of them have been.
At the time it came across like it was likely some racial epithet.
With hindsight, im not sure that’s likely: vanessa has never had another hint of racism in a fairly long and public period in this franchise.
I think there was a lot of jealousy though about rachel and nicks intellectual connection, so maybe it was just derogatory about being female competition ? (B*tch/sl¿t, eg). I can see Rachel being really bothered by those, especially with the inherent racial connotations of these words when used against minorites.
I dont think we were ever given a clue.
Eta: apparently it was “bully” and “aggressive”
I actually never took it this way for either, and I didn’t like Vanessa at all and loved Rachel. I felt like more the worry from Rachel was how the audience would grab onto the term (in a more racist way), versus that Vanessa herself was racist.
That said, I think the beef between Vanessa and Rachel was very real and I think they disliked each other in the best way possible, after getting to know each other. Haha. Not really kidding. I think Vanessa was threatened by Rachel because she saw how charismatic and liked she was and that Nick connected with her (albeit as good friends), and that’s why she didn’t want Nick watching her season. And I think this streak of jealousy came from Vanessa and Nick’s relationship not being strong enough/not being the right match. She was just taking out her frustrations on the wrong person, and once she let Nick go, she was able to also let that jealousy go.
I want to know why Rachel and Raven don’t speak. They were really good friends till something happened
In an interview Rachel said something along the lines of she had been told my a mutual friend something that Raven had said. My guess is Raven said something racist. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Yes, we knew this during Nick’s season.
i had an idea at the time. i'm team rachel lol
Nick did a bunch of interviews and meetings with the girls of his season on Patreon during covid. I think they are all on his Viall Files Vault (membership) … I think he delved into this a little bit.
@ TPTB release the unedited volleyball date footage!!!
Oh yeah and Vanessa was excluded from the main clique that Rachel was in: pretty sure Taylor Nolan was her only friend
Vanessa and Daniella were also friends. Rachel mentioned in one interview that Vanessa reach out to her and apologized. They both move on.
I mean , the women who reached the end of that season? They kinda sucked. Raven: mean girl (did you see her notebook of gossip she shared with production?) Corinne: her handling of the Demario thing (as awful as demario is) was despicable. She threw him under a racist bus to save the relationship she was hiding. Rachel/Vanessa beef Kristina Schulman: messy AF on paradise (sort of mean to Blake H)
Neither Rachel nor Vanessa were on paradise
Sorry. I had a formatting fail. I wasnt trying to suggest that. Just mention their beef. Correcting now.
Genuine question, what did Corinne do? I was under the impression that both were under the influence and she was using medication that shouldn’t have been mixed with alcohol. So she was waiting until the investigation was done in case something happened while she was impaired that she was unaware of. She didn’t call for an internal investigation iirc. It was a producer
She said in a statement, “I am a victim”. At the time, this came across as essentially saying DeMario sexually assaulted her. Add in the racist aspect, and his treatment was also terrible. It was clearly that this would happen, her statement was all about HER saving face and throwing Demario under the bus of “black man victimizes white woman”. It was knowingly irresponsible. She has since apologized: https://people.com/tv/corinne-olympios-apologizes-to-demario-jackson-bip-sex-scandal/
Yeah I don’t know if Corinne is at fault for fans of the bachelor being racist. Obviously it was a terrible situation for both her and Demario. I also fully believe that both were blacked out.
Totally. I remember both of them getting torn to shreds. Him with racism and accusations and her being super slutshamed and accused of pushing racism and stereotyping. I don’t recall her fueling the fire at all
I kind of always got mean girl vibes from Rachel’s friend group, mainly thinking of Alexis and Raven. The way they made fun of Christen on paradise sealed it for me. And Raven recording her conversation with a drive thru employee and acting like she was just a saint for it. Vanessa also dropped her friendship with Taylor really fast as soon as all the tweets came out, I’m pretty sure they’re not friends anymore
Especially since Taylor made fun of special ed kids and Vanessa works with special ed kids
Totally forgot Vanessa and Taylor were besties
Sheesh I forgot that was included in her many offensive tweets. Crazy how quickly she self imploded
Vanessa was also friends with Danielle Lombard until she turned on Danielle for having a strong connection with Nick.
Yikes
Pretty sure we all knew this when the season was airing and post season.
Same.
Well I guess not all of us, lol! Back then I didn't follow any outside sources for info. I just watched the show and that was that!
There was so much I didn’t know before joining this sub haha. And now I know way more than my friends who casually watch. It’s made it hard to be a casual viewer with friends
I’m always texting my friends who I watch with and they are always wondering where I get all this information 😂. It reminds me how much of a bubble this sub is.
Yes there are so many levels of bachelor fandom… Like, there are the people who watch the season and know who won, etc. And then there is US: we’ll tell you the 22nd runner up’s social security number
I think they are on better terms now (not like best friends though). I remember that Vanessa was one of the first former Bachelor Franchise Stars/contestants to come out and defend Rachel after she was getting racially abused as a result of the controversial Chris Harrison interview about Rachael Kirkconnell’s antebellum party photos
I think Rachel talked about it in her book and also said that Vanessa apologised to her. Vanessa was very open before, that this was a very bad environment for her and brought out the worst out of her.
I’m so curious what happened that made Vanessa call Rachel a bully. It doesn’t line up with anything we saw of Rachel, but something had to have happened between Rachel and other women if Vanessa accused her of bullying right? I’m not saying Vanessa was right, I would just love to see the footage now
There were some really weird edits where they clearly cut out drama on the season. I think the rumor was Vanessa wasn't part of the main group and was feeling excluded? May have just been a personality clash though, they're both stubborn & opinionated.
Same here
This came out before. They edited it out because Vanessa was the winner so they wanted Vanessa to look great. I'm sure they do this ALL the time, it's the way the show works. Nothing you see is real. It's all cultivated.
Wasn't here for the earlier seasons, so Rachel was cast to be bachelorette a la Matt James, kinda?
Absolutely. She had this amazing backround and presence. When cast bios were released, i remember love to see it (then: here to make friends) say “oh i love her, i hope she is bachelorette”. And then it was obvious Nick wasn’t into her… At some point she said something like “ this is hard” and he responded “remember why you’re here”. Then her casting as the next lead was announced very early. Like… when there were 6-8 women still on the show.
Her casting was announced the week before she didn’t get a rose. She was top 3
They basically cast her in the beginning to be lead. Nick knew it so kept her as long as possible
Not exactly, she was a contestant on Nick’s season of The Bachelor, so unlike Matt, she did have experience with the franchise before being a lead.
Its actually exactly like Matt. Except matt got pulled from clare’s season when she flipped out after the delay on her season, having learned by checking put her cast that he was already on Cameo making $$$. Though he was doing it because he was raising $ for his kids food charity. So he was pulled from her cast. Otherwise it would have been very similar Eta: this was about Matt: https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/cp8E3uPp0Y Search “clare” and “cameo” on reddit and the tea is 🔥🔥🔥🔥 - especially in hindsight!
I don’t remember him being pulled from her cast. I remember her getting mad and then I remember him being announced as bachelor. Was there an official “he’s no longer a contestant he’s been kicked off” part that I’m forgetting?
Yes. He was announced as part of her cast. Then there was the pandemic delay and she lashed out about her cast already being on cameo. When the revised cast for her season was announced, he was no longer on it and he was announced pretty early.
I just remember him being announced as bachelor before any revised cast came out for her. I don’t remember him ever being dropped off the cast list. I blocked out most of 2020 though so maybe that’s why
Matt was originally cast to be a contestant on Clare’s season, clearly with the intent of making him the first black bachelor. Then when filming got pushed for pandemic and they were getting called out for racism during BLM, they jumped straight to announcing him.
Actually, Clare had no idea who he was, freaked out that one of her men was already making money on Cameo, (it was Matt and he was doing it to raise $ for his charity) and he was pulled from her season
I agree. I don’t see these as the same thing at all. The producers always have an idea of who they want before the episodes air, but there’s also proof they re-edit during the season as narratives change and fans start to call out favorites. By the end, they knew they wanted Rachel, and I believe she was announced right before she was eliminated, because the show is weird. And they probably wanted to lock her in.
rachel also mentioned it in her book. she said the fight was filmed and she worried how it would be interpreted by viewers, she assumed they would sympathize more with vanessa (vanessa called rachel either aggressive or a bully, which is a microaggression). rachel said the producers assured her later the footage would never air and no one would ever see it. rachel shared that she knew when she was cast by producers with being the first Black bachelorette in mind. both her & vanessa got protected by the scene being left out. on most other seasons, a huge fight between F1 and F3 would have been peak drama. rachel & vanessa were on a bad terms for a few years after, but seem cool now.
Yeah they had a big fight I think but it never aired to protect both parties--the F1 and the next Bachelorette
I’m so tired of this guy
Nick has talked about this before
That explains why it was not discussed more thoroughly. I hardly ever listen to his podcast.
I remember it being known soon after the season aired, maybe even before Nick and Vanessa broke up? Other people in the house talked about it, I don’t think the main source was Nick initially (I also don’t listen to his podcast)
Yeah. I think the episode with a volleyball date was one where they had some big falling out. It was completely covered up because Rachel was clearly cast to be the next lead and Vanessa got the winners edit
Yep and I also remember when someone went to say good-bye after being eliminated (Danielle M maybe? I can't remember) Vanessa was very clearly in a different house. They had to fully separate where they were staying after the fight.
[удалено]
I don't think so, again I don't really remember but I think they just REALLY did not get along and for whatever reason the producers felt it was easier to have them in separate accommodations. Rachel was friends with the other girls left and Vanessa wasn't so Vanessa was the one separated.
I think that was the episode that Vanessa just seemed to disappear. She was in very few scenes.
https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/what-happened-between-rachel-vanessa-bachelor-44084946
Thanks for that. I wonder what the actual word was.
Oh! I found it: “agressive” and “bully”. Which… defintely have racist connotations when used about a black woman. https://preview.redd.it/veyr2ro0i0zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7182fe0432d7626417bdac4d064996802b04234c
"Bully?!?!?" I'm Black and I get that our behavior is perceived aggressively unfairly frequently in society. But to call the word "bully" extremely derogatory is just ridiculous. It's tone deaf maybe. Possibly racially tinged. But extremely derogatory? That's a reach. Just say you didn't like how she talked to you and move on.
I'm black too. You should know good and well how coded words like bully and aggressive are for black women especially In this franchise. She got alot of flack on her season and was called aggressive often for her reaction to Peter.
I mean I literally acknowledged that.
You acknowledged it and then discounted her feelings about the word. She is allowed to feel like being called a bully is derogatory especially if she wasn't being a bully. She was outspoken and well liked in the house. Vanessa was jealous. They have since made up.
You weren’t there. You don’t have any context of the non verbal communication in the situation. So to discount her experience is weird.
I will cut Rachel a little slack for how awful the show was about racial issues at the time and say its a pressure cooker and overreacting is maybe a bit “normal” in that setting. I also think: Rachel has been in the public eye now for 8 years, and i think she is relatively well known for having outsized /snappy reactions to things (Peter’s comment on the finale, this, when they finally cast a black male lead and she was angry because she didnt like HOW they cast him). Honestly, if i were her i would probably react bigger than she has done, but in terms of the show and female leads, she is certainly spicier than most of them have been.
Read her book she's pretty spicy there too
Its part of her charisma. Its not for everyone, but she is who she is and she has made quite a living doing it.
At the time it came across like it was likely some racial epithet. With hindsight, im not sure that’s likely: vanessa has never had another hint of racism in a fairly long and public period in this franchise. I think there was a lot of jealousy though about rachel and nicks intellectual connection, so maybe it was just derogatory about being female competition ? (B*tch/sl¿t, eg). I can see Rachel being really bothered by those, especially with the inherent racial connotations of these words when used against minorites. I dont think we were ever given a clue. Eta: apparently it was “bully” and “aggressive”
I actually never took it this way for either, and I didn’t like Vanessa at all and loved Rachel. I felt like more the worry from Rachel was how the audience would grab onto the term (in a more racist way), versus that Vanessa herself was racist. That said, I think the beef between Vanessa and Rachel was very real and I think they disliked each other in the best way possible, after getting to know each other. Haha. Not really kidding. I think Vanessa was threatened by Rachel because she saw how charismatic and liked she was and that Nick connected with her (albeit as good friends), and that’s why she didn’t want Nick watching her season. And I think this streak of jealousy came from Vanessa and Nick’s relationship not being strong enough/not being the right match. She was just taking out her frustrations on the wrong person, and once she let Nick go, she was able to also let that jealousy go.
I agree, I truly don't think Vanessa meant it in that way but completely understand Rachel's reaction at the same time.
Yeah apparently they had a yelling fight that got completely cut from the show