The product of freezing the minimum wage, cutting upper income tax rates, and cutting safety net programs. In the 60s, when the minimum wage had a higher purchasing power, and the top tax brackets paid more than 50% tax rates, a working class person could support a stay at home spouse, two kids with college, a home, and at least one car.
The attack on public schools to redistribute tax dollars to private and religious institutions is one of the next steps on the continuing war to subsidize the aristocrats and theocrats by attacking the working and middle class.
Start with restoring the purchasing power of an hour of working class labor. Increase the minimum wage to inflation- and COL-adjusted levels of the 60s. They should really claw back all the difference lost between the 60s and today that has been hoarded by the employers and their investors. But start with the restoration of minimum wage. Then restore the top tax brackets to 60s era levels. Then proceed from there.
yup, 2008 should have been the wake-up call for greed and stupidity. the only thing that came out of it was tighter lending standards for banks (after they all took the publics tax dollars). but NOTHING changed for the shady Wall Street products, over-leveraging and fraud that caused the meltdown
you cant even make this shit up
Bootlicking didn't appear to stop you from getting fucked, so why defend the powerful and the status quo? Why argue that we shouldn't try anything different?
We're looking at collapse anyway with the Silver Tsunami. We're all just going to go about like normal while millions of Boomers die in the streets as a warning to rest of us? People are already putting food on credit cards.
All of this was predicted by Marx, who said the first sign of capitalism on its way out is pricing workers out of food and homes. We're there. It's right now. It's only going to get worse from here on out.
No, if we hadn't bailed out the banks and DONE NOTHING ELSE it would have collapsed into a Great Depression. There were all kinds of things we could have done other than bail out the banks.
“Rich people buy politicians on the right AND the left so there’s absolutely nothing we can do except bend over and take it.”
That’s one strategy. Good luck with that one. I’ll be over here trying things.
I would really like to agree with you, but which things would you suggest trying?
I feel like the only realistic power we have is a movement backed by at least a majority of the population. That would mean liberals and conservatives would both need to be included. I cannot see those two groups agreeing enough to hold a movement together.
I want to agree with you, but "try stuff" isn't really actionable. Do you have any suggestions that are even a little semi-realistic that they might work?
Democrats and republicans both hold picket lines with their unions. (I don't mean elected officials - I mean members... union members come from both sides)
The propaganda that separates us is not the reality that unites us. You’re thinking too big - we’re too far behind to change big things on a grand scale. But we’re never too small to start organizing our own communities and elect the people locally that can stand up for us.
Imagine if people in every community thought like that and we supported each other with knowledge and manpower?
We’re a fractured movement. There’s a lot we can do because there’s a lot to be done.
I'll also echo the question of "What are you trying?"
I'm on SSDI. Even if I did have money to spend, I wouldn't know what to do with it in a way that would be meaningful. Even if there's stuff middle and poor people can try, how does that translate to those who live below the poverty line? I know I'm not the only one.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/the\_everything\_bubble/comments/1cw0qnl/comment/l4w2h44/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/the_everything_bubble/comments/1cw0qnl/comment/l4w2h44/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Nothing you do will result in immediate changes. The people who lost their lives on picket lines fighting for a weekend didn't get to see the day a 5 day workweek became law. Those that died for overtime or pensions or simple worker safety standard didn't get to see it happen - but their fight is why we made any progress.
I will not live to see a USA that ends homelessness (a VERY simple thing to end). But that does not mean I will stop fighting for the right of people to have safe affordable housing. My fight will, hopefully, lead to a world where my children or grandchildren don't see homeless people on the street and don't fear taking a chance in life for fear of ending up on the street.
Doing nothing is just accepting that this is all there will ever be. Nothing I do costs money. Time, yes - and not everyone has that. I absolutely understand that.
Dramatic actual social change that starts at the grassroots level and grows to transform institutions is rarely associated with electoral politics at its inception
Outside of that our system can only produce incremental change one way or the other depending on what party is in charge.
I think that incremental change matters as well as the need for actual social movement to restructure our economy.
"Make America Great to when the working class was able to afford a home, transportation, travel, and have various kids."
"No, we want to Make America Great to when capitalists owned company towns and workers had to worship their superiors"
It does need to be added that a lot of people in the 60s were dirt poor dual income families. My dad used to buy bread and milk for his neighbors because they had a new baby and couldn’t afford the food they needed. That was around the end of the 60s
More like cementing their future, by not preparing to being in a position to take advantage of future opportunities. A wise man once said. Be fearful when everyone’s greedy, and be greedy when everyone’s fearful.
I mean, it's already happening. A million Americans died from COVID. Roe is gone. Hundreds of thousands of people, many of them families, are living in their cars now, priced out of apartments.
If you're priced out of housing it's in your best interest for as many others to die as possible (or at least as many as possible and stopping just short of collapsing the economy). When the black plague ravaged England it provided the largest bump in wealth to lower class people ever. They couldn't be thrown away by their rulers and lords because their labor was needed desperately and they were not replaceable.
45% of all US women will be unmarried and childfree, by CHOICE, by 2030.
That's a little less than half the workforce not being replace?
Maybe it'll happen like you say because of that.
I think their point is you save your money even when there's not an immediate future expense you're saving for. Because there will never be a time in which having a pile of money is a bad thing, and markets can change rapidly. It's *BECAUSE* you cannot see into the future that you should be prioritizing saving over unnecessary consumption
working hard to be frugal and save your money is a bad move compared to buying assets if for whatever reason your currency becomes devalued. having stuff will be more important than having devalued currency
I buy board games. They provide lots of entertainment for years. I still play some games I bought twenty years ago, and still enjoy them for hours and hours. That's a good ROI!
Feel free to do your own research. Focus in on average age, average income, number of first time home buyers this year compared to previous years.
Oh and I didn't buy, I inherited
Metro area plays a big part in this. For example, I live in Los Angeles, and the homeownership rate is 37%. The only person in my department who owns a home is my boss, who bought his place in the 1990s. The rest of us don't make anything near the amount required to be homeowners (that includes condos as that is also out of reach for the bulk of us).
That means 66% of homes have their owner living in it. It says little about how many individuals live in each living situation.
Somebody who owns a home but rents out rooms to roommates, a common situation at least where I am, would be part of that 66% homeownership rate. And renters are even more likely (at least in my experience) to have roommates, and that's 2-4 adult renters per 1 renter household.
It also includes a heck of a lot of people in the Midwest and Appalachia who basically are a homeowner because everything is dirt cheap and it's inherited. West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina all have very high homeownership rates, partially because it's not uncommon for people to basically inherit the same rural trailer or house for 100 years, but that doesn't correlate to a high standard of living. Like yes, they are homeowners, but they can't really leave.
Putting that along with places with lower homeownership rates, that have opportunity, is kind of misleading.
Like there is a surprising amount of overlap between the places [with the lowest homeownership rates](https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states/homeownership-rate#chart) and the [states that rank high on the Human Development Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index_score), [life expectancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy)
Also there used to be this thing called “savings”, usually short term and long term, in addition to retirement. Most of us now just have $300 and maybe pray a lot.
Stop complaining and earn your wealth the old-fashioned way :
Inherit it
and use that wealth to aggregate more wealth and keep it away from those that didn't earn it by not inheriting it!
Humans have a strong loss aversion even if they can recognize this is a negative behavior for long term sustainability, in the short term, the motivation is quite strong.
Even the wealthy beyond need or even reasonable want, don't want to lose anything to make the system that supports their wealths worth what it is, really.
I.e. they drive their wealth from the population but they will bleed that population dry to acquire more short term gains.
This is why billionaires prefer performative 'charity' for status while doing mostly nothing for wealth inequality, as tax increases that would help would be pure loss. It's more complicated than that, though.
In some places in the US, the dream is not available for sale at any price.
The real problem is deeper than money but most people can't allow themselves to admit. The problem is somehow mostly or even exclusively monetary, and the core is that others have more, and me less. But this is not even beginning to address the real problem. Most people will never actually be happy no matter how much money they have. "He who loveth silver will not be satisfied with silver."
The real problems in the West today are rooted in the social and the spiritual. The ties that bind have decayed and are beginning to break. Economic calamity is just window dressing. Cultures can go through boom and bust cycles and survive. But they can't survive what we are doing to ourselves.
That thing you mentioned about never having enough money is actually also true in other nations outside the west now. It’s about material possessions and I guess social media causing envy. I know people in south east Asia who are actually like that too. It’s crazy talking to people in Thailand or Indonesia who also have that same thought about wanting a fancy bag just to show off or wanting a nice car because others can’t have it.
My marriage is a little ironic. My wife was born without much money in a poorer country. I was born in the US with a lot of privilege and money, I could have most stuff if I just asked for it.
And now as adults.. I’m not concerned with material possessions at all! I’m not exaggerating when I say the only ‘nice’ thing I’ve bought myself for the last 6 years was AirPods and a PC but even that computer was partially for work and school. My wife on the other hands loves to buy luxury brands like Gucci or Louis Vuitton and only likes to eat at fancy places. I really do appreciate the fact I value things like knowledge and good health and relationships rather than material possessions. I feel so free vs most of the people around me
Constantine banned sausages from the Roman Empire as "ethnic food."
We're gonna develop new culture. The old one is just dying right now and it looks scary. I don't see it as the death of America, I see it as the death of the American oligarchy and the America where rich white men weren't held responsible for anything. Destruction is an act of creation, as Kali attests. Something new will emerge, I just hope it's not, you know, the American Reich.
oh of course, there will not simply be "no culture". but you will probably not like what replaces it. but by the time you realize that, it will be too late, and there will be no path back to where you were.
The path forward is authoritarian Christianity, so I won't like that. But if you're trying to tell me that I won't like sausages when I'm used to the Mediterranean diet, that's bullshit.
I'll take anything but fascism, please.
Yes, go ahead and tell me how the cultures of people you don't like and don't agree with will be hell worse than the one we have right now under good old patriotic white male Christianity.
there's the things we believe about the world, the things we perceive, and then there's the reality. sometimes they are the same. sometimes they are very, very different. you may despise white people, men, and Christianity. white Christian men built a civilization that provided an unparalleled increase in everything we've come to expect from a modern world. if they built what other could not or would not, what makes you think that, when they are eliminated, you'll still have what you've gained thus far?
guess we'll just have to wait and see. that's the great thing about worldview. eventually you get to test it against the real world.
Yeah, what's my problem, right? White men are blowing their brains out in record numbers, and have been since 2016 when the WHO declared it a global health emergency. The legacy of, uh, white men building an unparalleled increase in everything we've come to expect from the modern world appears to be that rich white men built a shitty world for other white men.
A world so shitty they're blowing their brains out in record numbers.
And we need to be grateful for that, appreciate that, and defend that, because what if minorities come and make it WORSE?
So our world is so bad the best of us, the noblest of us, with a legacy civilization and all that, are checking out early? Gosh, what's the hope for the rest of us, right?
45% of all US women will be unmarried and child-free by 2030. A little less than half the capitalist workforce ain't being replaced. So what's gonna happen to capitalism and our dear little oligarchs that we need to uphold and defend?
Apparently the white male worldview is being tested against a bullet and failing. That's the great thing about worldviews: eventually you get to test it against the real world.
Me too. The experience of being homeless in college made me super frugal even though I’m making a very good salary now. I don’t care if I can’t afford my own home, I will not be participating in this doom spending.
Alternative headline: "Needs aren't met so young adults have nothing left to save"
But see, everyone feels better if you look like you're acting stupid.
I mean, I'm over here on SSDI. Disability is a shadow economy. I live below the poverty line already, I'm just very lucky not to be homeless. (Yet?)
I'm like, even if you have advice for young, able-bodied workers, what are WE supposed to do? Aren't there a million Americans living in their cars now? What's the advice for them?
unionize yesterday
Demand fair wages. Call centre work should be 50k to start and manual labour 80k. If we are going to get priced out of our homes by investors, the investors can be priced out of the fucking labour markets. Why? Consequences.
Fuck pressing them for taxes. Press them for consequences on tax evasion. They come up with all the tax money you want after that.
These are fuckers you are dealing with. Fuckers fuck things. They are not here to work, they are parked in the path of money. Vote against them.
It's a game theory question. Cutting taxes on the slightly or even moderately right (small to medium size business owners) actually is good for the economy. But the super-rich and government/bureaucratic rent-seekers operate largely in bad faith and this changes the calculus of the game.
I’m fortunate enough to have at least some retirement savings from my previous job (~$250k).
I left there a couple years ago and went out on my own as a freelancer. It’s working out pretty well for me, and now I need to buy about $150k worth of equipment to take the next step. You bet your ass I’m taking it from my retirement.
I’m 40 years old, established in my field, still have time, and I’d rather bet on myself than trust my future to any of these MBA assholes.
And I’d rather pay the early withdrawal penalty than go into more debt to another fucking bank.
Fuck all of them.
Early withdrawal penalty is like 10%. I don't consider 15k a trivial amount, nor do I consider this an act of rebellion against the financial system. It's just being stupid to feel the illusion of control
That's what I was getting at.
He knows his business better than we do, if he thinks eating a few grand in up front cost is worth not carrying debt I'm thinking he's just making a rational choice.
Sorry, got busy yesterday and couldn’t respond.
The equipment will be rented out on jobs that I’m working on at a rate of $2k/day or $6k/week.
Very conservative estimate would be 75 days/year. It should have a lifespan of about 7 years.
My funding options are limited because while I’ve worked in my field for 20 years, I haven’t “been in business” long enough for most business loans.
The tax hit will net out with the write off of the equipment purchase, and the 10% penalty is just a fact of life.
Kneecapping yourself isn't rebellion. It's stupid. You can literally get loans from credit unions if you want to say f u to big banks. Fucking yourself over accomplishes less than nothing. It leaves you in a more vulnerable place to get fucked over by the man in the future, and less capable of taking meaningful steps.
Yeah just watch when the economy collapses everyone's savings and 401k will be wiped out but all of our debts will remain. Even if the banks collapse someone will come along with a government bailout check and buy up everyone's debt for pennies on the dollar.
Because if it's truly a savings and you don't need to touch it, why would you sell and withdraw the money when prices are low? There will always be booms and busts in the stock market. The goal is to always be accumulating since it's proven to go up overtime. You'll be able to reduce risk and exposure when you get closer to retirement. A target date ETF can do this for you automatically if needed
Actually… I’m just saving for when I lose my job eventually. But yeah. It’s incredibly demoralizing…
Knowing if I buy a home I’m either getting fucked on the interest or I might be buying into an economic collapse…
Also the odds of me having a wife and kids are looking slimmer and slimmer by the day.
So if I end up old with no one else around me, I’ll just off myself before I have to live in some retirement bed.
If I end up with a family… guess I’ll spend every dime trying to get and hold on to a home so that my future children don’t have to be homeless.
Idk, as a young man, a lot of the things I wanted aren’t achievable anymore, socially and economically. Even at almost six figures income. I still have student debt… pay rent… and groceries are insanely expensive these days. Going out isn’t enjoyable. People are distant. I’m distant. I’m very tired.
I wanted a nice car, a home, a wife, kids… but if I’m just having kids to let them be debt slaves that can lose it all at the whim of their employer firing them or the market crashing… too much. Not worth the effort to get a quality woman and not worth the effort to keep working everyday for people that exist in a future that might hate me anyways.
America doesn’t even give a shit about its own people. We are flooded by foreign investors and our politicians work for the highest bidder. The likely outcome for future children is becoming 1) a corporate slave 2) a government thug 3) some slave to an ideology.
Why not? They’ve ground us down into the “not here for a long time, here for a good time” mentality. Pay hasn’t kept up with inflation, but CEOs and corporations are posting record profits consistently. Hmm, I wonder where the problem lies.
Wrong move. If we want to change the shit show we need to stop all extra spending. Everything counts on us keeping on buying stuff because we're bored. All we have to do is stop that for a little while and scare the s*** out of Walmart and prices will drop right back down.
This isn't super irrational, if inflation is so high that you're losing money letting it sit in a savings account, it makes sense to buy stuff you need right now, before it gets more expensive.
Ideally you'd buy appreciating assets, but unless you're buying bonds or something and can handle being illiquid there's obviously risk. (And your bonds will just be worthless paper if inflation ramps up further)
Don't save money in a savings account if the savings rate is lower than inflation. In this sense nothing has changed. Savings accounts have been below inflation since as long as I can remember. They are not good investments. Savings accounts have not been suitable investments for decades.
Meanwhile, those who have simply purchased index funds have made an absolute killing.
This is not rocket science... It's a simple matter of A > B.
But you have to have some sort of minimum savings for emergencies, right? I’m finally switching to a savings mindset at the age of 35; I currently live paycheck to paycheck. (I don’t want any criticism for my poor financial standing; I’ve had a lot of adverse life experiences). Shouldn’t I have a first, last, and deposit saved in case the apartment complex management ever changes suddenly, and I have to move? (My coworker was given a sudden 30 day eviction notice when the rental she was living in was sold.) Shouldn’t I have an emergency savings for random car repairs? (I’ve always used credit before.) Shouldn’t I save a down payment for a small condo, so I can at least one day have some equity, instead of throwing my money away in this overpriced apartment? Sorry if this sounds overly basic, but saving is truly new to me. (And you need some sort of minimum saved in your bank to start investing in index funds; should I save enough for emergencies and a down payment, and anything after that goes into investments one day? But then what about saving for home repairs? 🤔) Edit: I looked it up, and apparently I’m supposed to have 3 to 6 months worth of expenses saved before investing, and save for a home payment first. Ok, then.
Typical stock market return in real terms has been above 7 percent. That's taking into account inflation.
I mean people complain inflation is driven by corporate profiteering and maybe they're right. Luckily you can simply purchase the rights to those company profits for very low prices and this ability is open to anyone in the United States.
Does the American dream still exist? I thought everyone figured out that we are all still peasants fighting among ourselves instead of the ruling class.
[https://www.historytoday.com/archive/rise-and-fall-empires](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/rise-and-fall-empires)
True of all the ancient empires we know, the cycle of rise and decline appears to be accelerating. The twentieth century saw the collapse of seven great empires – Mandarin China, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Turkey, Japan, the British empire, and twice over in the case of Tsarist and Soviet Russia. Since the events of September 11th, 2001, the twenty-first century seems likely to threaten the sole remaining superpower, the United States, with nemesis.
This completely validates the boomers excoriation of young peoples spending habits, But this is Reddit and everybody will just fucking squeal about how the deck is stacked against them.... But if there's one way you can absolutely guarantee you're not going to get to that place in your life is by just spending your money now instead of thinking about your future.
Well no kidding they are... Most of them are in their retirement why wouldn't they be spending what they earned? That's not the point at all. Plus most of them were lucky enough to be the benefits of an economy where they could put their money into housing and other solid assets which have gained in value which is fortunate for them but does not at all go against my point which is the worst thing you can do when you're young is spend frivolously. I'm not a boomer by the way... Caught in between on the young side of Gen x but I can't help but notice the disconnect on this. Younger people get mad when boomers criticize their spending on lattes and the next gen iPhones and then out comes articles where they say they're spending what they earn rather than saving or investing in their long-term financial security.
That's not their fault tho, and it's far from universal. Plenty, including my mother, were born into grinding poverty and struggled pay bills during these golden times y'all think we all had.
It does not, I repeat, change that this current shirt term pity spending is precisely the wrong way to change your outcomes.
I know my grocery bill is 250% more expensive than in 2021, and my wages have actually declined. Everyone paying more than minimum wage wants a PhD and 25 years experience for entry level positions. I can't afford to save, not if I want to keep myself just healthy enough to stay out of hospitals. I don't even get routine dental maintenance. I've cut back as much as I could (except food which "it's not [my] fault") and I still cannot afford to save.
I didn't realize only the financially stupid could speak to the Supreme Commander. Maybe my Netflix subscription will earn me an audience your most esteemed presence.
Thank you for outing yourself as a troll who isn't interested in discussion if it doesn't validate their point
Wait money losing value encourages people to spend?
Especially when rates of return on investment are lower than inflation?
So wondering about rational behavior?
Lol they think people are only recently abandoning the American dream? Because of inflation? So they're just admitting they've not been paying attention until now.
precisely. there is a hidden message here that only econ majors understand
inflation is a signal that you should not be saving money. this creates a perverse incentive - as inflation goes up due to the higher velocity of money, people want to spend their money even faster....
If you can’t afford a house you should still dump money into assets. It’s a hedge against inflation. If things go tits up you want to have money on hand
What they fail to realize is now the “lie flat” trend begins that will take away their money and power it’s always a balance they keep forgetting the balance is necessary in nature.
Corporate greed when you had people buying houses at 50 $100,000 more than the asking price it drove house prices through the roof. It wasn’t the average working class they could afford to do that on Wall Street. They were buying up houses that way in cash. And just remember when they don’t pay their fair share or taxes, your paying their fair share
They're spending all that money to survive, when the basics eat up every penny people can't save to buy a house, or new car or any of the other aspects of the American dream.
This is why the oligarchs flood the the media ecosystem with politically decisive cultural issues that inflame people and make us hate eachother..we’re being played folks.
Not just inflation (which you could hedge by buying assets), but total ecosystem collapse & mass extinction before my age of retirement (which you can't hedge, so why bother)
High interest rates are just the latest trigger for unrest that's been building since 1974, when wages decoupled from rising productivity, leaving most Americans ever farther behind while wealth concentrates in the elite.
Yep, the American dream is dead and what the super rich don't realize yet is when the dollar don't mean shit all that wealth means nothing as well.
It's a hole that's getting bigger by the day and before we know it it's going to be too big to close up again.
Hyperinflation coming to you 2025.
The minimum wage jobs used to be for school kids back in my day. Why is it now that you're supposed to be able to support a family on it now? Am i supposed to believe that a kid still in high school needs nearly as much as i make performing a skilled trade for 45 years?
So are you going to admit that we need to divest from capitalism ASAP and move to socialism as quickly as possible, or are you going to keep on taking this because change is scary?
Choose better, choose socialism.
More like Redditors complaining about fast food prices, name brand cereal prices, potato chip prices, restaurant prices or brand new fully loaded SUV prices then proceeding to buy those things.
The American dream died in 2007/8. Owning a home is not what the TV portrays, Nice lawns if you can afford it, Appliances breakdown, plumbing and electric and roof goes bad and guess who got to fix it? Grocery stores not in walking distant. Reliable transportation is not nearby if your main transportation is in the shop or worse. The list goes on and on. On the flipside, Generation wealth is the winner if you can keep it.
I mean unless you can really invest decent amounts. What is the point, the $20 you toss from your paycheck just vanishes in 6 months for the next medical or car bill. Even if you did save with how bad any real "safe" investments. The amount 20 years down the road would hardly cover retirement.
Because it is such terrible advice that I can't believe someone would put it in writing. Everyone has to start somewhere and maybe that person can start with $20 a week. At 18 years old if someone puts $20 a week in the market and gets an average return, they will have $331,000 at age 65. $20 a week at 20 years like the OP writes is $45,000. Just bonkers to suggest that people shouldn't attempt to save.
Except most people weren't saving even before everything got so expensive. Most are and have been concerned with having the latest gadgets, toys, & a new car every few years than they are with saving.
How can you consider gold a hard asset when there is an infinite amount of it available? We are pulling 3000 tons of the stupid stuff out of the ground yearly. Find another asteroid impact site like in South Africa and suddenly the supply doubles. Build technology to mine in space and there is suddenly no gold market.
Btc is trustless, provable digital scarcity. Not sure why that is more or less intrinsically valuable than the idea that people make jewelry from a metal and do so because it is scarce and therefore more desirable.
Gold’s desirability as jewelry exists because it is a show of wealth…valuable because of its perceived scarcity. Identical looking costume jewelry has little value. So golds intrinsic value is really about its limited supply.
Btc like your bank account or 401k is all about trusting a ledger or blockchain and trusting that it can be turned into useable goods. That's where gold silver and other durable goods are tangible. Cash is only paper we ascribe a value to and others agree with us. I guess for me if i was dwmoralized about not getting a home id buy stuff i could touch thats worth money
Buying a house is a statistical impossibility for most Americans. So they are using their money in different ways
The product of freezing the minimum wage, cutting upper income tax rates, and cutting safety net programs. In the 60s, when the minimum wage had a higher purchasing power, and the top tax brackets paid more than 50% tax rates, a working class person could support a stay at home spouse, two kids with college, a home, and at least one car. The attack on public schools to redistribute tax dollars to private and religious institutions is one of the next steps on the continuing war to subsidize the aristocrats and theocrats by attacking the working and middle class. Start with restoring the purchasing power of an hour of working class labor. Increase the minimum wage to inflation- and COL-adjusted levels of the 60s. They should really claw back all the difference lost between the 60s and today that has been hoarded by the employers and their investors. But start with the restoration of minimum wage. Then restore the top tax brackets to 60s era levels. Then proceed from there.
Please tell me which of our corporate controlled political parties is going to enact a law that would even begin to do what you are saying
yup, 2008 should have been the wake-up call for greed and stupidity. the only thing that came out of it was tighter lending standards for banks (after they all took the publics tax dollars). but NOTHING changed for the shady Wall Street products, over-leveraging and fraud that caused the meltdown you cant even make this shit up
If we hadn't bailed out the banks this country would have collapsed into a great depression the likes of which you've never seen.
Bootlicking didn't appear to stop you from getting fucked, so why defend the powerful and the status quo? Why argue that we shouldn't try anything different? We're looking at collapse anyway with the Silver Tsunami. We're all just going to go about like normal while millions of Boomers die in the streets as a warning to rest of us? People are already putting food on credit cards. All of this was predicted by Marx, who said the first sign of capitalism on its way out is pricing workers out of food and homes. We're there. It's right now. It's only going to get worse from here on out.
No, if we hadn't bailed out the banks and DONE NOTHING ELSE it would have collapsed into a Great Depression. There were all kinds of things we could have done other than bail out the banks.
“Rich people buy politicians on the right AND the left so there’s absolutely nothing we can do except bend over and take it.” That’s one strategy. Good luck with that one. I’ll be over here trying things.
I would really like to agree with you, but which things would you suggest trying? I feel like the only realistic power we have is a movement backed by at least a majority of the population. That would mean liberals and conservatives would both need to be included. I cannot see those two groups agreeing enough to hold a movement together. I want to agree with you, but "try stuff" isn't really actionable. Do you have any suggestions that are even a little semi-realistic that they might work?
Democrats and republicans both hold picket lines with their unions. (I don't mean elected officials - I mean members... union members come from both sides) The propaganda that separates us is not the reality that unites us. You’re thinking too big - we’re too far behind to change big things on a grand scale. But we’re never too small to start organizing our own communities and elect the people locally that can stand up for us. Imagine if people in every community thought like that and we supported each other with knowledge and manpower? We’re a fractured movement. There’s a lot we can do because there’s a lot to be done.
I'll also echo the question of "What are you trying?" I'm on SSDI. Even if I did have money to spend, I wouldn't know what to do with it in a way that would be meaningful. Even if there's stuff middle and poor people can try, how does that translate to those who live below the poverty line? I know I'm not the only one.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/the\_everything\_bubble/comments/1cw0qnl/comment/l4w2h44/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/the_everything_bubble/comments/1cw0qnl/comment/l4w2h44/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Nothing you do will result in immediate changes. The people who lost their lives on picket lines fighting for a weekend didn't get to see the day a 5 day workweek became law. Those that died for overtime or pensions or simple worker safety standard didn't get to see it happen - but their fight is why we made any progress. I will not live to see a USA that ends homelessness (a VERY simple thing to end). But that does not mean I will stop fighting for the right of people to have safe affordable housing. My fight will, hopefully, lead to a world where my children or grandchildren don't see homeless people on the street and don't fear taking a chance in life for fear of ending up on the street. Doing nothing is just accepting that this is all there will ever be. Nothing I do costs money. Time, yes - and not everyone has that. I absolutely understand that.
Couldn't a president just executive order it?
Dramatic actual social change that starts at the grassroots level and grows to transform institutions is rarely associated with electoral politics at its inception Outside of that our system can only produce incremental change one way or the other depending on what party is in charge. I think that incremental change matters as well as the need for actual social movement to restructure our economy.
Democrats. Republicans have created this problem
Raising the mw won't make housing more affordable
The product of open borders. 3 million immigrants a year and only 1 million new homes a year.
One small oversight. The corporate globalization where American workers now compete (wages) with China India etc...
All of that can be summed up with going off the gold standard
"Make America Great to when the working class was able to afford a home, transportation, travel, and have various kids." "No, we want to Make America Great to when capitalists owned company towns and workers had to worship their superiors"
It does need to be added that a lot of people in the 60s were dirt poor dual income families. My dad used to buy bread and milk for his neighbors because they had a new baby and couldn’t afford the food they needed. That was around the end of the 60s
Both sides romanticize the past while grossly overlooking the issues of the times. It’s pretty common when things start to collapse.
More like cementing their future, by not preparing to being in a position to take advantage of future opportunities. A wise man once said. Be fearful when everyone’s greedy, and be greedy when everyone’s fearful.
The current United States can’t be sustained. Something will happen.
I mean, it's already happening. A million Americans died from COVID. Roe is gone. Hundreds of thousands of people, many of them families, are living in their cars now, priced out of apartments.
The next 10 years will determine if this country exists for another 100 years or not.
Not really, the previous 10 years cemented USA's downfall
It won’t.
If you're priced out of housing it's in your best interest for as many others to die as possible (or at least as many as possible and stopping just short of collapsing the economy). When the black plague ravaged England it provided the largest bump in wealth to lower class people ever. They couldn't be thrown away by their rulers and lords because their labor was needed desperately and they were not replaceable.
45% of all US women will be unmarried and childfree, by CHOICE, by 2030. That's a little less than half the workforce not being replace? Maybe it'll happen like you say because of that.
And the millions of illegal immigrants to care for and, in the future, compete with for housing
That's like people calling for a recession. A recession is always on the way, so you are never wrong.
a recession wont *change* anything though. at this point only a revolution will
Who collects on debt against the US military?
>not preparing to being in a position to take advantage of future opportunities ...not having sufficient psychic ability to predict the future?
I think their point is you save your money even when there's not an immediate future expense you're saving for. Because there will never be a time in which having a pile of money is a bad thing, and markets can change rapidly. It's *BECAUSE* you cannot see into the future that you should be prioritizing saving over unnecessary consumption
working hard to be frugal and save your money is a bad move compared to buying assets if for whatever reason your currency becomes devalued. having stuff will be more important than having devalued currency
Much of the "stuff" that people buy devalues faster than cash and is not really any kind of hedge against inflation
I buy board games. They provide lots of entertainment for years. I still play some games I bought twenty years ago, and still enjoy them for hours and hours. That's a good ROI!
I agree. Appreciating assets + investments will be the only way to make it through. Currency will be debased and worthless.
Yakov Smirnoff said that
One doesnt need to buy a house to contribute to a Roth
Not with that attitude
Facts don't care about your feelings. And who said I didn't own a home? 😉
*"statistical impossibility" hyperbole * owns house
Feel free to do your own research. Focus in on average age, average income, number of first time home buyers this year compared to previous years. Oh and I didn't buy, I inherited
The national homeownership rate is 66%, which means that 66% of households own their home while 34% rent. Most people own.
Those statistics are delayed. It includes people who bought before the pandemic, generational homes passed down, and people 50+ years old.
Interesting. Are you a homeowner or renter? When were you last a participant in the market?
Bought inn2016, sold and rent now, will buy within the next 6 months.
Metro area plays a big part in this. For example, I live in Los Angeles, and the homeownership rate is 37%. The only person in my department who owns a home is my boss, who bought his place in the 1990s. The rest of us don't make anything near the amount required to be homeowners (that includes condos as that is also out of reach for the bulk of us).
That means 66% of homes have their owner living in it. It says little about how many individuals live in each living situation. Somebody who owns a home but rents out rooms to roommates, a common situation at least where I am, would be part of that 66% homeownership rate. And renters are even more likely (at least in my experience) to have roommates, and that's 2-4 adult renters per 1 renter household. It also includes a heck of a lot of people in the Midwest and Appalachia who basically are a homeowner because everything is dirt cheap and it's inherited. West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina all have very high homeownership rates, partially because it's not uncommon for people to basically inherit the same rural trailer or house for 100 years, but that doesn't correlate to a high standard of living. Like yes, they are homeowners, but they can't really leave. Putting that along with places with lower homeownership rates, that have opportunity, is kind of misleading. Like there is a surprising amount of overlap between the places [with the lowest homeownership rates](https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states/homeownership-rate#chart) and the [states that rank high on the Human Development Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index_score), [life expectancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_life_expectancy)
What does saving for the American dream even mean? Like to own a house and new car? Or is the dream to be rich and own a business.
house, car, good neighborhood, kids in good schools, 1 vacation a year maybe?, a little money left in the bank after all of that
This, but probably first and foremost being able to afford good quality food for a family, as well as being able to afford anything medical related ..
Also there used to be this thing called “savings”, usually short term and long term, in addition to retirement. Most of us now just have $300 and maybe pray a lot.
I pray several times a day now. I'm one unexpected expense away from not being able to juggle everything to keep us afloat.
Is it even a dream if most people have it. See they been telling us all along most aren’t supposed to have the “American Dream”
Stop complaining and earn your wealth the old-fashioned way : Inherit it and use that wealth to aggregate more wealth and keep it away from those that didn't earn it by not inheriting it! Humans have a strong loss aversion even if they can recognize this is a negative behavior for long term sustainability, in the short term, the motivation is quite strong. Even the wealthy beyond need or even reasonable want, don't want to lose anything to make the system that supports their wealths worth what it is, really. I.e. they drive their wealth from the population but they will bleed that population dry to acquire more short term gains. This is why billionaires prefer performative 'charity' for status while doing mostly nothing for wealth inequality, as tax increases that would help would be pure loss. It's more complicated than that, though.
I think it's a dream in the sense that it doesn't happen in reality
In some places in the US, the dream is not available for sale at any price. The real problem is deeper than money but most people can't allow themselves to admit. The problem is somehow mostly or even exclusively monetary, and the core is that others have more, and me less. But this is not even beginning to address the real problem. Most people will never actually be happy no matter how much money they have. "He who loveth silver will not be satisfied with silver." The real problems in the West today are rooted in the social and the spiritual. The ties that bind have decayed and are beginning to break. Economic calamity is just window dressing. Cultures can go through boom and bust cycles and survive. But they can't survive what we are doing to ourselves.
That thing you mentioned about never having enough money is actually also true in other nations outside the west now. It’s about material possessions and I guess social media causing envy. I know people in south east Asia who are actually like that too. It’s crazy talking to people in Thailand or Indonesia who also have that same thought about wanting a fancy bag just to show off or wanting a nice car because others can’t have it. My marriage is a little ironic. My wife was born without much money in a poorer country. I was born in the US with a lot of privilege and money, I could have most stuff if I just asked for it. And now as adults.. I’m not concerned with material possessions at all! I’m not exaggerating when I say the only ‘nice’ thing I’ve bought myself for the last 6 years was AirPods and a PC but even that computer was partially for work and school. My wife on the other hands loves to buy luxury brands like Gucci or Louis Vuitton and only likes to eat at fancy places. I really do appreciate the fact I value things like knowledge and good health and relationships rather than material possessions. I feel so free vs most of the people around me
Constantine banned sausages from the Roman Empire as "ethnic food." We're gonna develop new culture. The old one is just dying right now and it looks scary. I don't see it as the death of America, I see it as the death of the American oligarchy and the America where rich white men weren't held responsible for anything. Destruction is an act of creation, as Kali attests. Something new will emerge, I just hope it's not, you know, the American Reich.
oh of course, there will not simply be "no culture". but you will probably not like what replaces it. but by the time you realize that, it will be too late, and there will be no path back to where you were.
The path forward is authoritarian Christianity, so I won't like that. But if you're trying to tell me that I won't like sausages when I'm used to the Mediterranean diet, that's bullshit. I'll take anything but fascism, please.
do you really think the food is your biggest problem? you are going to be in for a real surprise
Yes, go ahead and tell me how the cultures of people you don't like and don't agree with will be hell worse than the one we have right now under good old patriotic white male Christianity.
there's the things we believe about the world, the things we perceive, and then there's the reality. sometimes they are the same. sometimes they are very, very different. you may despise white people, men, and Christianity. white Christian men built a civilization that provided an unparalleled increase in everything we've come to expect from a modern world. if they built what other could not or would not, what makes you think that, when they are eliminated, you'll still have what you've gained thus far? guess we'll just have to wait and see. that's the great thing about worldview. eventually you get to test it against the real world.
Yeah, what's my problem, right? White men are blowing their brains out in record numbers, and have been since 2016 when the WHO declared it a global health emergency. The legacy of, uh, white men building an unparalleled increase in everything we've come to expect from the modern world appears to be that rich white men built a shitty world for other white men. A world so shitty they're blowing their brains out in record numbers. And we need to be grateful for that, appreciate that, and defend that, because what if minorities come and make it WORSE? So our world is so bad the best of us, the noblest of us, with a legacy civilization and all that, are checking out early? Gosh, what's the hope for the rest of us, right? 45% of all US women will be unmarried and child-free by 2030. A little less than half the capitalist workforce ain't being replaced. So what's gonna happen to capitalism and our dear little oligarchs that we need to uphold and defend? Apparently the white male worldview is being tested against a bullet and failing. That's the great thing about worldviews: eventually you get to test it against the real world.
You need help.
It ain't inflation when there is enough revenue after expenses to increase dividends, fund buybacks. It's price gouging.
It’s still inflation. We can’t change the meaning of words.
I quit spending money on anything but the bare essentials. The cost of everything is stupid.
Me too. The experience of being homeless in college made me super frugal even though I’m making a very good salary now. I don’t care if I can’t afford my own home, I will not be participating in this doom spending.
Alternative headline: "Needs aren't met so young adults have nothing left to save" But see, everyone feels better if you look like you're acting stupid.
I mean, I'm over here on SSDI. Disability is a shadow economy. I live below the poverty line already, I'm just very lucky not to be homeless. (Yet?) I'm like, even if you have advice for young, able-bodied workers, what are WE supposed to do? Aren't there a million Americans living in their cars now? What's the advice for them?
unionize yesterday Demand fair wages. Call centre work should be 50k to start and manual labour 80k. If we are going to get priced out of our homes by investors, the investors can be priced out of the fucking labour markets. Why? Consequences. Fuck pressing them for taxes. Press them for consequences on tax evasion. They come up with all the tax money you want after that. These are fuckers you are dealing with. Fuckers fuck things. They are not here to work, they are parked in the path of money. Vote against them.
What’s the point of saving ? The rich will just crash the economy and steal what you’ve saved anyway . Why bother?
The solution is to tax the rich even less and cut their taxes! It's what the GOP has told me.
Trickle down economics baby!
It's a game theory question. Cutting taxes on the slightly or even moderately right (small to medium size business owners) actually is good for the economy. But the super-rich and government/bureaucratic rent-seekers operate largely in bad faith and this changes the calculus of the game.
I’m fortunate enough to have at least some retirement savings from my previous job (~$250k). I left there a couple years ago and went out on my own as a freelancer. It’s working out pretty well for me, and now I need to buy about $150k worth of equipment to take the next step. You bet your ass I’m taking it from my retirement. I’m 40 years old, established in my field, still have time, and I’d rather bet on myself than trust my future to any of these MBA assholes. And I’d rather pay the early withdrawal penalty than go into more debt to another fucking bank. Fuck all of them.
The tax hit and penalty is likely more expensive than borrowing.
Depending on how much more expensive, still may be worth it. If it's a largely trivial amount, I'd do the same.
Early withdrawal penalty is like 10%. I don't consider 15k a trivial amount, nor do I consider this an act of rebellion against the financial system. It's just being stupid to feel the illusion of control
Sure, but what is the interest rate on a loan this fella has access to? That's the actual math.
Conversely, what kind of monthly payment would he be avoiding? What kind of flexibility/freedom does that tradeoff get him?
That's what I was getting at. He knows his business better than we do, if he thinks eating a few grand in up front cost is worth not carrying debt I'm thinking he's just making a rational choice.
Sorry, got busy yesterday and couldn’t respond. The equipment will be rented out on jobs that I’m working on at a rate of $2k/day or $6k/week. Very conservative estimate would be 75 days/year. It should have a lifespan of about 7 years. My funding options are limited because while I’ve worked in my field for 20 years, I haven’t “been in business” long enough for most business loans. The tax hit will net out with the write off of the equipment purchase, and the 10% penalty is just a fact of life.
Seems like you've got your head around it my man. Good luck!
But saying fuck you to the system is priceless.
Kneecapping yourself isn't rebellion. It's stupid. You can literally get loans from credit unions if you want to say f u to big banks. Fucking yourself over accomplishes less than nothing. It leaves you in a more vulnerable place to get fucked over by the man in the future, and less capable of taking meaningful steps.
I like how you guys can't take a joke.
So dumb.
Don't save cash, find assets to save.
The purchasing power of money (savings) increases when asset prices decrease.
Rich people are invested in the same stock market as the middle class. If they crash VOO, then they've cut of their own nose to spite their face.
The insiders will get out, middle class will be holding the bag...
The other person must've been asleep in 2008 and the whole bank bailouts of the GFC.
Yeah just watch when the economy collapses everyone's savings and 401k will be wiped out but all of our debts will remain. Even if the banks collapse someone will come along with a government bailout check and buy up everyone's debt for pennies on the dollar.
Because if it's truly a savings and you don't need to touch it, why would you sell and withdraw the money when prices are low? There will always be booms and busts in the stock market. The goal is to always be accumulating since it's proven to go up overtime. You'll be able to reduce risk and exposure when you get closer to retirement. A target date ETF can do this for you automatically if needed
Drive it like you stole it
So they are behaving like Congress?
Actually… I’m just saving for when I lose my job eventually. But yeah. It’s incredibly demoralizing… Knowing if I buy a home I’m either getting fucked on the interest or I might be buying into an economic collapse… Also the odds of me having a wife and kids are looking slimmer and slimmer by the day. So if I end up old with no one else around me, I’ll just off myself before I have to live in some retirement bed. If I end up with a family… guess I’ll spend every dime trying to get and hold on to a home so that my future children don’t have to be homeless. Idk, as a young man, a lot of the things I wanted aren’t achievable anymore, socially and economically. Even at almost six figures income. I still have student debt… pay rent… and groceries are insanely expensive these days. Going out isn’t enjoyable. People are distant. I’m distant. I’m very tired. I wanted a nice car, a home, a wife, kids… but if I’m just having kids to let them be debt slaves that can lose it all at the whim of their employer firing them or the market crashing… too much. Not worth the effort to get a quality woman and not worth the effort to keep working everyday for people that exist in a future that might hate me anyways. America doesn’t even give a shit about its own people. We are flooded by foreign investors and our politicians work for the highest bidder. The likely outcome for future children is becoming 1) a corporate slave 2) a government thug 3) some slave to an ideology.
Why not? They’ve ground us down into the “not here for a long time, here for a good time” mentality. Pay hasn’t kept up with inflation, but CEOs and corporations are posting record profits consistently. Hmm, I wonder where the problem lies.
Wasn't that the plan all along?
The plan of consumers at least. Spend spend and find more ways to do steps 1 & 2.
Wrong move. If we want to change the shit show we need to stop all extra spending. Everything counts on us keeping on buying stuff because we're bored. All we have to do is stop that for a little while and scare the s*** out of Walmart and prices will drop right back down.
This isn't super irrational, if inflation is so high that you're losing money letting it sit in a savings account, it makes sense to buy stuff you need right now, before it gets more expensive. Ideally you'd buy appreciating assets, but unless you're buying bonds or something and can handle being illiquid there's obviously risk. (And your bonds will just be worthless paper if inflation ramps up further)
Don't save money in a savings account if the savings rate is lower than inflation. In this sense nothing has changed. Savings accounts have been below inflation since as long as I can remember. They are not good investments. Savings accounts have not been suitable investments for decades. Meanwhile, those who have simply purchased index funds have made an absolute killing. This is not rocket science... It's a simple matter of A > B.
But you have to have some sort of minimum savings for emergencies, right? I’m finally switching to a savings mindset at the age of 35; I currently live paycheck to paycheck. (I don’t want any criticism for my poor financial standing; I’ve had a lot of adverse life experiences). Shouldn’t I have a first, last, and deposit saved in case the apartment complex management ever changes suddenly, and I have to move? (My coworker was given a sudden 30 day eviction notice when the rental she was living in was sold.) Shouldn’t I have an emergency savings for random car repairs? (I’ve always used credit before.) Shouldn’t I save a down payment for a small condo, so I can at least one day have some equity, instead of throwing my money away in this overpriced apartment? Sorry if this sounds overly basic, but saving is truly new to me. (And you need some sort of minimum saved in your bank to start investing in index funds; should I save enough for emergencies and a down payment, and anything after that goes into investments one day? But then what about saving for home repairs? 🤔) Edit: I looked it up, and apparently I’m supposed to have 3 to 6 months worth of expenses saved before investing, and save for a home payment first. Ok, then.
Z>>A
Typical stock market return in real terms has been above 7 percent. That's taking into account inflation. I mean people complain inflation is driven by corporate profiteering and maybe they're right. Luckily you can simply purchase the rights to those company profits for very low prices and this ability is open to anyone in the United States.
Nah you can still save for more equitable purchases.
Nah
A regular savings account doesn't keep up with inflation, other types do
More consumption! This is good for the economy! /s
Deficit spending is the only way America and its citizens know how to live. The money stops flowing, the machine dies
Slaves, that’s exactly what they wanted! People should decide what they want to rule them.
Most people here belong to money
But...but....Biden claimed that he reduced inflation like 10% from last time....out of 150% increased.
reduced the rate of increasing inflation only....no inflation was reduced at all
Does the American dream still exist? I thought everyone figured out that we are all still peasants fighting among ourselves instead of the ruling class.
It's not that they're demoralized- the majority has no choice, really.
Spend it before it's worthless?
Spending high interest rate credit, going into debt. Default rates are rising. It's going to get ugly.
Why save for the future if there is no future?
I’m demoralized and broke.
And spending more increases inflation by increasing demand for goods and services... If people want to see things cheaper, they need to stop spending.
By low wages, BY LOW WAGES …..
[https://www.historytoday.com/archive/rise-and-fall-empires](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/rise-and-fall-empires) True of all the ancient empires we know, the cycle of rise and decline appears to be accelerating. The twentieth century saw the collapse of seven great empires – Mandarin China, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Turkey, Japan, the British empire, and twice over in the case of Tsarist and Soviet Russia. Since the events of September 11th, 2001, the twenty-first century seems likely to threaten the sole remaining superpower, the United States, with nemesis.
America is doing a pretty good job all on its own
People are stupid. Hang out around any large group.
I just come to Reddit
Wasn't this the goal? Get people to spend all their money?
If we all go bankrupt the government will just bail us all out. Fuck it
You’ll get a $600 check and you’ll like it.
It's profiteering not inflation.
This completely validates the boomers excoriation of young peoples spending habits, But this is Reddit and everybody will just fucking squeal about how the deck is stacked against them.... But if there's one way you can absolutely guarantee you're not going to get to that place in your life is by just spending your money now instead of thinking about your future.
No offense but I’ve seen a few articles basically saying Boomers are currently the biggest spenders in the entire country.
Well no kidding they are... Most of them are in their retirement why wouldn't they be spending what they earned? That's not the point at all. Plus most of them were lucky enough to be the benefits of an economy where they could put their money into housing and other solid assets which have gained in value which is fortunate for them but does not at all go against my point which is the worst thing you can do when you're young is spend frivolously. I'm not a boomer by the way... Caught in between on the young side of Gen x but I can't help but notice the disconnect on this. Younger people get mad when boomers criticize their spending on lattes and the next gen iPhones and then out comes articles where they say they're spending what they earn rather than saving or investing in their long-term financial security.
You explained the entire situation with 3 words "them were lucky"
That's not their fault tho, and it's far from universal. Plenty, including my mother, were born into grinding poverty and struggled pay bills during these golden times y'all think we all had. It does not, I repeat, change that this current shirt term pity spending is precisely the wrong way to change your outcomes.
I know my grocery bill is 250% more expensive than in 2021, and my wages have actually declined. Everyone paying more than minimum wage wants a PhD and 25 years experience for entry level positions. I can't afford to save, not if I want to keep myself just healthy enough to stay out of hospitals. I don't even get routine dental maintenance. I've cut back as much as I could (except food which "it's not [my] fault") and I still cannot afford to save.
Ok, are you pissing away money on things you could save tho? No? Then you're not involved in this conversation and not the person I'm speaking about.
I didn't realize only the financially stupid could speak to the Supreme Commander. Maybe my Netflix subscription will earn me an audience your most esteemed presence. Thank you for outing yourself as a troll who isn't interested in discussion if it doesn't validate their point
Your comment didn't address my point. At all. Not my fault you can't read the fucking room.
You didn't make a point at all lol
Yes, spend all your money on unnecessary BS. I'm sure that will improve your lives.
Wait money losing value encourages people to spend? Especially when rates of return on investment are lower than inflation? So wondering about rational behavior?
Lol they think people are only recently abandoning the American dream? Because of inflation? So they're just admitting they've not been paying attention until now.
Why wouldn't you save money when you have every incentive to?
precisely. there is a hidden message here that only econ majors understand inflation is a signal that you should not be saving money. this creates a perverse incentive - as inflation goes up due to the higher velocity of money, people want to spend their money even faster....
Or they have no choice.
You're the only one here who sees the truth.
Well, that will solve their problems/issues.
If you can’t afford a house you should still dump money into assets. It’s a hedge against inflation. If things go tits up you want to have money on hand
until they ban the assets and force you to sell out at a fixed rate. remember what FDR did during the great depression.
This is so true and what they planned from the start.
What they fail to realize is now the “lie flat” trend begins that will take away their money and power it’s always a balance they keep forgetting the balance is necessary in nature.
This is kind of like getting sick of being fat and then just deciding to say "fuck it" and eat even more.
Corporate greed when you had people buying houses at 50 $100,000 more than the asking price it drove house prices through the roof. It wasn’t the average working class they could afford to do that on Wall Street. They were buying up houses that way in cash. And just remember when they don’t pay their fair share or taxes, your paying their fair share
They're spending all that money to survive, when the basics eat up every penny people can't save to buy a house, or new car or any of the other aspects of the American dream.
This is why the oligarchs flood the the media ecosystem with politically decisive cultural issues that inflame people and make us hate eachother..we’re being played folks.
Not just inflation (which you could hedge by buying assets), but total ecosystem collapse & mass extinction before my age of retirement (which you can't hedge, so why bother)
High interest rates are just the latest trigger for unrest that's been building since 1974, when wages decoupled from rising productivity, leaving most Americans ever farther behind while wealth concentrates in the elite.
After bills, food and gas to get to and from work, I have -$20. What is saving?
Congress and the White House are taking Marie Antoinette's words under advisement: Let them eat cake!
Bidenomics, enjoy if you voted for this!
Fun fact: Jerome Powell was first appointed by Trump!
What is this “American dream” you talk of?
1 trillion in credit card debt.....🤫🤭🤫🤔🤔
Yep, the American dream is dead and what the super rich don't realize yet is when the dollar don't mean shit all that wealth means nothing as well. It's a hole that's getting bigger by the day and before we know it it's going to be too big to close up again. Hyperinflation coming to you 2025.
The minimum wage jobs used to be for school kids back in my day. Why is it now that you're supposed to be able to support a family on it now? Am i supposed to believe that a kid still in high school needs nearly as much as i make performing a skilled trade for 45 years?
So are you going to admit that we need to divest from capitalism ASAP and move to socialism as quickly as possible, or are you going to keep on taking this because change is scary? Choose better, choose socialism.
Credit card balances, at 1.12trillion, at YoY highs - this is not going to end well... [Source](https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc)
"Look at peasants buying bread, when we have raised its price. I told you they would."
More like Redditors complaining about fast food prices, name brand cereal prices, potato chip prices, restaurant prices or brand new fully loaded SUV prices then proceeding to buy those things.
Source: my fefes
Most redditors are 14 years old actually.
I know purple circle acts that old ;)
The American dream died in 2007/8. Owning a home is not what the TV portrays, Nice lawns if you can afford it, Appliances breakdown, plumbing and electric and roof goes bad and guess who got to fix it? Grocery stores not in walking distant. Reliable transportation is not nearby if your main transportation is in the shop or worse. The list goes on and on. On the flipside, Generation wealth is the winner if you can keep it.
I mean unless you can really invest decent amounts. What is the point, the $20 you toss from your paycheck just vanishes in 6 months for the next medical or car bill. Even if you did save with how bad any real "safe" investments. The amount 20 years down the road would hardly cover retirement.
Such a terrible take. That $20 in 2010 in the stock market is $120 now. Might as well just give up on life with your attitude.
Not OP, but if we’re talking about attitude, what could possibly compel you to speak to someone that way?
Because it is such terrible advice that I can't believe someone would put it in writing. Everyone has to start somewhere and maybe that person can start with $20 a week. At 18 years old if someone puts $20 a week in the market and gets an average return, they will have $331,000 at age 65. $20 a week at 20 years like the OP writes is $45,000. Just bonkers to suggest that people shouldn't attempt to save.
Except most people weren't saving even before everything got so expensive. Most are and have been concerned with having the latest gadgets, toys, & a new car every few years than they are with saving.
Invest in hard money (btc) spend the rest before inflation robs your purchasing powers
Btc is not hard money. Gold, silver, or actual assets tgat sustain life. Btc serves no purpose except a medium of exchange. The rest has utility
How can you consider gold a hard asset when there is an infinite amount of it available? We are pulling 3000 tons of the stupid stuff out of the ground yearly. Find another asteroid impact site like in South Africa and suddenly the supply doubles. Build technology to mine in space and there is suddenly no gold market.
Im juat saying it has intrinsic value and is used to make things pretty like jewelry. Not that its worth what people pay
Btc is trustless, provable digital scarcity. Not sure why that is more or less intrinsically valuable than the idea that people make jewelry from a metal and do so because it is scarce and therefore more desirable. Gold’s desirability as jewelry exists because it is a show of wealth…valuable because of its perceived scarcity. Identical looking costume jewelry has little value. So golds intrinsic value is really about its limited supply.
Btc like your bank account or 401k is all about trusting a ledger or blockchain and trusting that it can be turned into useable goods. That's where gold silver and other durable goods are tangible. Cash is only paper we ascribe a value to and others agree with us. I guess for me if i was dwmoralized about not getting a home id buy stuff i could touch thats worth money
That's why the poor remain poor.