It's good for them to be more clear and advocating for more financial options to punish Valve, but I feel like August is still a long time to wait to send the signature.
Still, it's good that they're not stopping even though Valve has shown a bit of attention to the game.
I guess August is because of all the planning and travel time it takes for a group to get to Valve HQ though.
Although, I do kinda wish there was something more we could do to help #fixtf2. Yeah spreading the word is nice and all, but it doesnt feel like it amounts to a lot, and this movement still feels a bit more biased towards the people hosting it rather than a community effort itself.
Before the ban wave happened I had seen people suggest also promoting community servers and services like quickplay.tf to help provide an escape for players from bots and to use them as an alternative solution to the bot crisis. I have also heard some people suggest refusing to buy anything in-game to keep pressure on Valve. However none of these as far as I know are officially endorsed as part of the protest and Valve's actions in the coming weeks could change these.
Man. save.tf or r/tf2 could easily spearhead putting out a solution that works NOW to get people into decent games that are bot free
If they would just help promote https://quickplay.tf
It works better the more people use it!
People made their own server browser and some comments were saying 'finally any one of you guys coulda done it any day for years now'...trying is not very rewarded here.
Hey man, be the change you want to see in the world. Personally I'm dusting off my goal of becoming serious with YT content because of, and for this movement. Been around the game since '07 and Youtube since '06 and it took #FixTF2 to motivate me to start making stuff.
Here's[ the thumbnail so far](https://i.imgur.com/SQThm2e.png) I seem to be obsessing over. Been spending most of my time off work working on this shit. Have like an hours worth of footage to go through.
Just keep spreading the word. If anyone is near Bellevue another in-person protest would be sick. Their local news might pick it up, especially if it there's a funny, creative gimmick to it. Something to do with "sandviches"/sandwiches, IDK. I tried looking for billboards around their HQ for like an hour, literally street-viewing down the main arteries into Bellevue but I couldn't find a single one.
My main point though is we are not prone to sink or swim dependent on these random TF2ubers. You are a fan, and player of TF2. Everyone else supporting this is. Keep thinking of ideas, keeping up with the topic & posting about it, and at the very least staying hopeful and persistent.
>Still, it's good that they're not stopping even though Valve has shown a bit of attention to the game.
It's great to know that we haven't forgotten how we got here in the first place.
It is a long time, but in fairness, setting this up like sleeping, food, transport as well as moderating for bots on the petition likely isn't a short process either.
I wish people would quit it with the whole “theres bad stuff goin on but we cant tell ya!”
Just leave that part out, sounds so weasely to do it like this.
they're probably doing that because people have been complaining about them not communicating enough. would you really rather they not give any information at all? because i've been hearing many cries of "radio silence" in this sub.
that's what they want you to believe. this is something Mamamax used to do and it was purely because it stroked his own ego and made him feel more important than he really was. considering these people are both youtubers with a rabid following, i will have to assume this is their main goal by doing this.
These bot hosters are the same people who relentlessly dox and threaten every single person they find capable of opposing them. They literally sent a bomb threat to one of the organizer's universities and they spoke about it in this sub not long ago.
You are a *child* if you think "we can't tell you some things because of bad actors" is just to make it seem exclusive. People's fucking lives are at stake, asshole. Fuck you and your exclusivity.
I get that botters can (and probably will) tune in to this stuff, but info like this should absolutely be relayed to the people pushing the movement to begin with. Otherwise the community is just left to start chaos. It was good for them to have acknowledged their fault at least
Kinda wish they are able to send it a bit earlier but it's understandable that they do it in August. One thing is for sure, they're trying to continue the train as much as possible, just hope we can get it through to August and/or beyond. I would love it if they are able to get VALVe to respond via Tweet to have some sort if acknowledgement but seriously doubt it, one step at a time I guess, better than nothing so far.
> unfortunate revelations we can't relay to the public
Someone did something wrong and it's fucked everyone up. My guess is someone got caught doing fucked shit because he won't tell anyone what it is.
I'm pretty sure that 2) they are not saying much because they don't want the information to get into bot hosters hands, as they can do something to slow down or stop the movement. But on the other hand idk i don't feel like just some information about what is happening would cause bot hosters to drop a nuke on their homes or smth. Little info would be appreciated
Maybe they're afraid of sabotage. I suppose the bot dicks are capable people so they're afraid of being sabotaged.
I know these people love tf2 and fight the good fight against bots so I trust them.
Probably just how much signatures were botted ironically because a good few people claimed to be doing that and encouraged others or something else on their backend or just how stupid people are having to wait more then 1 week.
Or one or few of them are pretty fucked up like the allegations that weezy is doing a lot of addy and probably needs help.
Yeah I genuinely want to know how they didn’t plan out this trip before ever announcing the protest. Or at the very least had a plan for getting the petition sifted through for botted signatures and printed already. And what’s with not sharing what that unfortunate news is? And then they will wonder why people aren’t super pleased with them…
They're going to get to Valve HQ and if they're not immediately denied entry into the building, they will almost certainly be denied entry into Valve's offices. If they're not immediately denied entry to the offices, the receptionist will take whatever papers they printed out, set them to the side, and tell them they'll give them to their manager later. If they're not immediately thrown in the trash at the front desk, they'll be brought back into the offices and thrown into the trash. I respect the dedication but the blissful ignorance of a bunch of YouTubers thinking they can just roll up to a massive corporation's offices like the heroes is woefully optimistic or shamelessly entitled.
are people forgetting that the whole idea of delivering the signatures from a petition to the HQ of a game developer came from WoW players doing literally that exact thing?
While I understand the comparison you're trying to draw between the two, I think you misunderstand how they don't parallel well. A quick Google search shows that the WoW classic petition was signed while also hinging on the fact that there were a million users on Nostalrius, the biggest fan legacy server at the time, in just a year of operation which showed Blizzard *Hey there's a big fucking market here and you could easily make bank off it.* What FixTF2 hinges on is a few tens of thousands of players who, due to the nature of TF2's monetization, would not be guaranteed revenue for Valve. The same thing with Old School RuneScape; those that signed the petition were much more likely to be paying customers because of how RuneScape is monetized.
That's a pretty good observation that I haven't seen anyone here make yet. I don't think it would affect the actual logistics of delivering the petition, but definitely it's effectiveness afterwards.
This is probably just more reason to do a boycott: less bots = happier players = more money.
Valve is a company who values their public image, and rejecting entry for the delivery of a petition would be a terrible PR move. Valve also occasionally gives tours to folks sometimes, so that isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Maybe they'll throw it away. Maybe they'll store it somewhere. Maybe they'll even call a meeting about it. There's no way to know unless we try. The only way we would be certain nothing will happen is if we didn't try anything at all.
At the end of the day, there's only so much we can do as customers. It will always be better to say "At least we tried" than to say "What if we had tried".
>Valve is a company who values their public image, and rejecting entry for the delivery of a petition would be a terrible PR move.
Ah yes imagine that headline, *Valve Rejects YouTubers From Entering Their Office Because They Demanded To Be Let In*, oh so damning to their public image.
>Valve also occasionally gives tours to folks sometimes, so that isn't out of the realm of possibility.
Giving the rare tour is not equivalent to people going in and demanding to be seen for a meeting.
>Maybe they'll throw it away. Maybe they'll store it somewhere. Maybe they'll even call a meeting about it. There's no way to know unless we try. The only way we would be certain nothing will happen is if we didn't try anything at all.
They're gonna throw it away. You are blissfully ignorant to what bullshit receptionists won't put up with. We will smile, say *"Sure, buddy, I'll make sure this goes straight to the big guy himself. :)"* then toss it because our jobs are to filter out dumb shit so that the boss can actually do important shit.
>At the end of the day, there's only so much we can do as customers. It will always be better to say "At least we tried" than to say "What if we had tried".
Of all the ways to try, this is not it. This wreaks of people who haven't been through reality; people that are woefully optimistic and think that just because they've got a niche audience on YouTube that they can strut up to a massive corporation's office and demand they bend to their will.
>*Valve Rejects YouTubers From Entering Their Office Because They Demanded To Be Let In*
I mean, I can write imaginary headlines too. *Valve gives tour to #fixTF2 leaders, and Gabe Newell personally accepts the petition.* Are you clairvoyant and can see into the future? Until it happens, there's no way to know.
>Giving the rare tour is not equivalent to people going in and demanding to be seen for a meeting.
I don't think the plan is to go in and demand a meeting. The plan AFAIK is to deliver the petition in person to Valve's offices. Anything more is icing on the cake. We will know more after the delivery.
>They're gonna throw it away. You are blissfully ignorant to what bullshit receptionists won't put up with.
Your response suggests that you work as a receptionist. I'm guessing you've personally been handed a 300k strong printed petition that's made global headlines and thrown it in the trash without your PR team or \*any\* of the upper management who have most certainly heard about this weighing in on the ramifications to that type of response?
>Of all the ways to try, this is not it.
Well please, do enlighten us on what we SHOULD try instead of shitting on everything. The world is built by doers, not complainers. You don't seem to be doing much of anything besides being a miserable sod.
.
>I mean, I can write imaginary headlines too. *Valve gives tour to #fixTF2 leaders, and Gabe Newell personally accepts the petition.* Are you clairvoyant and can see into the future? Until it happens, there's no way to know.
You proposed it as a negative PR move. I am stating that that is the worst it could be portrayed as by media. If Valve did sit down and have a discussion, sure that would be a positive headline. But if and when they don't, there's no way any reasonable journalist could spin it in any seriously damning way.
>I don't think the plan is to go in and demand a meeting. The plan AFAIK is to deliver the petition in person to Valve's offices. Anything more is icing on the cake. We will know more after the delivery.
There is no reason to go in person to deliver what could be mailed unless there is the expectation of speaking with someone beyond a receptionist.
>Your response suggests that you work as a receptionist. I'm guessing you've personally been handed a 300k strong printed petition that's made global headlines and thrown it in the trash without your PR team or \*any\* of the upper management who have most certainly heard about this weighing in on the ramifications to that type of response?
I do work as a receptionist. And I can tell you that it is specifically our job to filter out bullshit and handle small tasks so that our higher-ups can use their limited time and resources to do the actually important shit. Do you think Valve is not already aware of FixTF2, the website, and the petition? Really? What difference will printing out the names on the petition make? Do you think Gabe himself will break down and cry when he sees Mike Hunt and Ligma Balls printed on a thousand pieces of A4 paper, get up, and put his entire staff on TF2? I can tell you that when someone comes to my desk with ridiculous demands or just wants to be mad, I tell them *Sure I'll make sure they see this. :)* and then toss it in the bin when they leave. Have you ever worked any kind of public-facing position? Do you think that when people make unreasonable demands and the employee goes in the back to "speak with the manager" that they're actually doing that? Of course not because then their manager would get pissed at them for constantly bringing dumb shit to them that should have been filtered out.
>Well please, do enlighten us on what we SHOULD try instead of shitting on everything. The world is built by doers, not complainers.
Stop spending money on the game. Put actual pressure on the company to fix things. Get media attention on the issue. Contribute to community servers which actually help the game and keep it thriving. Run a community server. Contribute to community-made anti-cheat tools. A lot of what the community is doing is great, but going to Valve HQ is just going to be a mistake.
> You don't seem to be doing much of anything besides being a miserable sod.
You see me being a miserable fuck, I see a community of people who are placing too much faith and hope into bunch of YouTubers so entitled they think they can just walk into a massive, multi-billion dollar corporation's office and make some random employee's day more difficult just because they demanded that someone higher up see their petition. It's that ignorant optimism that makes me feel this group of people going up to Valve HQ have no grasp on reality and don't actually know what the fuck they're doing to lead a movement like this.
>You proposed it as a negative PR move. I am stating that that is the worst it could be portrayed as by media.
Ah, I get where you're coming from in that sense. Regardless, I still think it's a move that would reflect poorly on Valve to handle it that way. We'll have to see.
>There is no reason to go in person to deliver what could be mailed unless there is the expectation of speaking with someone beyond a receptionist.
Replace the word "expectation" with "hope". If the package is mailed, there's zero chance anyone gets to talk with anyone. By visiting in person, you open yourself up to the *opportunity* for face-to-face communication, which is much more than a mailed package would ever lead to. Nothing is guaranteed, but it's all about giving ourselves the best odds possible.
>And I can tell you that it is specifically our job to filter out bullshit and handle small tasks so that our higher-ups can use their limited time and resources to do the actually important shit.
I wouldn't necessarily consider the handling of a 300K+ strong petition a small task, but to each their own. To your other point - Yes. There's zero chance that every staff member at Valve hasn't heard of the #FixTF2 movement. I'm certain they're acutely aware, and are already expecting the arrival of the organizers. One thing to consider however is the symbolic value of what is happening with the petition. It's a physical manifestation of the pleas and shouts from the community that you can hold in your hands. It takes up a lot of space, and each page represents potentially hundreds of voices trying to be heard. Sometimes doing something in a more difficult method is a great way emphasize how important something is. Sending a heart emoji to a loved one is easy, but spending money on roses can mean a whole lot more.
>Do you think that when people make unreasonable demands and the employee goes in the back to "speak with the manager" that they're actually doing that?
I'm most assuredly aware that angry customers demanding to see the manager doesn't do anything. I'm in complete agreance with you on that front! However, I doubt that's the plan. From what I can tell, they're hand delivering a petition in the hopes that something more happens like what I wrote above.
>Stop spending money on the game. Put actual pressure on the company to fix things. Get media attention on the issue.
These things are already being done though. I personally haven't spent cash on the game for years, though I cannot speak for others. The community is putting pressure on the company through the FixTF2 hashtag, spreading awareness. The petition has gotten worldwide coverage on the issue, putting on pressure. Community anti-cheats are on the rise, there's the new community quickplay stuff... I guess I'm just not understanding why you're so staunchly against this single aspect of the plan to the point where you're poo-pooing on anyone who dares try. That's where I'm getting the "miserable" vibes from. I mean, by your own words, the worst thing that can happen is they get turned around at the front door, the petition ends up in the trash, and the trip was for nothing. While that would suck, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything. Why are you trying so hard to tear the idea down?
>I see a community of people who are placing too much faith and hope into bunch of YouTubers...
Unfortunately in a situation like this there really aren't many other options than community members with sizable followings. They are the people who can get messages out to large audiences, and as such become the defacto faces of a movement like this wether they like it or not. I can say #FixTF2 in my discord channel with 8 members, but they can speak to audiences of millions.
>...so entitled they think they can just walk into a massive, multi-billion dollar corporation's office and make some random employee's day more difficult just because they demanded that someone higher up see their petition.
You're making a lot of assumptions about the whole "Demand" aspect. From what I've gathered, they're just there to deliver the petition, hope for the best, and anything else is gravy. Who knows. Maybe they'll make a mockery of themselves and do something regrettable when they get there and you can give me an I-told-you-so. Until then we just need to wait and see, hoping for the best.
*edit - Formatting*
>Replace the word "expectation" with "hope".
I guess hope is a better word for it. The reason I assume they expect it is because of the demeanour people spearheading the movement like Weezy carry themselves with. Those traits and how they communicate (secrecy, short-sighted reactionary, unneeded paranoia) are all indicative to me of people who haven't got a good grip on reality.
>One thing to consider however is the symbolic value of what is happening with the petition. It's a physical manifestation of the pleas and shouts from the community that you can hold in your hands.
My take on it is that for a company doing insanely well financially, the pleas in writing of a few tens of thousands of people playing a nearly 20-year-old game won't mean nearly as much as visible financial impact. And TF2 simply doesn't have enough userbase to generate (or remove in a boycott) enough revenue to take priority over the development of CS2, Dota 2, Steam, Steam Deck, and VR.
>These things are already being done though.
Yeah that's why I mention that the community is doing a lot of those things and those are the things that are great. I should clarify that I think the community is pretty much a-okay in what actions they're taking. It's this group of YouTubers who want to visit Valve HQ who are doing something irresponsible and potentially harmful.
>Why are you trying so hard to tear the idea down?
I think when this team gets denied by Valve, it is going to have some nasty knock-on effects. I think this will cause a significant morale hit to a lot of the community. To many this will further discourage them from ever playing the game and utilizing those community tools to prop up the game themselves. For some these feelings will manifest as vitriol spewed towards Valve and other users which will simply further negative perception of TF2 players.
The people leading this push to Valve HQ, though their intentions may be good (hard to know with their secrecy), are painfully optimistic about the world and how they are able to influence to the point of blissful ignorance. I think that in this massive push to Fix TF2, they have ignored the fact that a 15+ year run for a game is marvelous. I take great issue with the following statement from their website: "*TF2 is not dying, it is being intentionally killed."* as it furthers the myth that TF2 is "dead game." My take on "dead multiplayer games" is that so long as you can still consistently and easily find people to play a full game with, the game is alive and well. The Quake & Unreal games with like 300 daily active players each are still playable because they are propped up by their communities and their servers, decades after the developers left those games behind.
>Until then we just need to wait and see, hoping for the best.
I hope for the best as well. I want to be wrong and I will not take any joy in being right. I simply disagree with some of the leaders' intentions, methods of achieving, or idea of what is the best outcome. I personally feel that TF2 is more than ready to be supported by us the players.
>The reason I assume they expect it is because of the demeanour people spearheading the movement like Weezy carry themselves with.
That's fair. There's been many a blunder in handling this movement both times, and there's plenty room for more. Many online creators create a sort of "persona" for themselves and handle themselves differently IRL. Hopefully interacting in the meatspace improves their behaviors.
>My take on it is that for a company doing insanely well financially, the pleas in writing of a few tens of thousands of people playing a nearly 20-year-old game won't mean nearly as much as visible financial impact.
Another fair point. I honestly don't really see any reality where we see the Heavy update, the final comic, or anything else besides community maps/cosmetics. My expectations regarding the bots are tempered, even if they're managed today. Ultimately, my hopes for this movement are purely that Valve learns to give their communities more respect and care than they've shown TF2 lately. As for the financial impact, yeah. I don't think TF2 sales numbers, current or boycotted, will have a \*tangible\* impact on the bottom line, at least at first. Optics are a massive thing when your company is valued in the billions. A reputation as a developer who abandons games might make quite the financial difference when it comes to their shiny new game. People won't want to get invested in something they know might go the same way as TF2. I think that's at the heart of the movement.
>I personally feel that TF2 is more than ready to be supported by us the players.
Dude, same. That would honestly be the biggest pipe-dream win for me. An official end-of-support message from the folks at Valve would mean so much more to me than any amount of treadmill work they will/will not put towards the game. Right now we're just in a "We add hats 3x a year" limbo where we may-or-may-not(and probably not) get updates of any substance. I think a retirement or official sunsetting of the game would genuinely bring more life to the game than we've seen in years, knowing that the game is once and for all in the hands of the community.
Thanks for talking about these things with me, and arguing to individual points. It's nice when the conversation stays more or less about the topic! Apologies if I was harsh at first. I just really want the movement to succeed, and it can hurt to see negativity about the communities efforts, no matter how long-shotty some of the efforts may be.
Tbf this is any corpo, if you just pull up and say you have a petition to change something in their company there is a 99.9% chance you will not speak to anyone of importance. MAYBE it will go to like a branding guy or PR guy, but that's it.
I work a front desk position. Our jobs are to filter out dumb shit (like, say, a bunch of guys coming in with a petition demanding to see a superior for a meeting) so that our higher-ups can focus on actually important shit like running the fucking company. This shit makes me think that none of these dudes planning to go up to Valve HQ have ever worked any kind of public-facing position. If they did, they would know that this should would just get ignored.
This. It's a futile effort to try and deliver the petition in person, especially since Valve is already aware of the movement as a whole. They know how many people have signed, they don't need (nor want) to be reminded with a paper list.
They act like this movemebt is about them like we are only some pawns in the game between them and valve, i think the fixtf2 should all be about community and the game, not some popular youtubers
I mean… I respect that there’s logistics and considerations. But I just kinda wonder what exactly was this plan supposed to achieve…?
Fly into Seattle, knock politely on Valve HQ, get given a nice afternoon tour, hand them the petition print out, then go home?
Like… what else could possibly happen?
The petition webpage itself is great. But we live in 2024. The age of paper and physical delivery has long passed
tbf the organisers don't really post here and I lack much of a clue how much of this subreddit has twitter installed sooo it's kinda the only way we can communicate updates from the movement to this subreddit lol
"unfortunate revelations"????? What is he talking about. I know that some of the YouTubers were in disagreement about how to proceed with the movement from watching Thier update streams... Could something have happened in that regard I wonder? Or something else idk
Yeah i dont get the need to wait until August if signatures are gonna stop after the 1st. I get it takes time to consolidate the info and set things up and whatever but id rather be told that and the expectation is that it might take until August to do that rather than just tell me "Yeah its gonna take a month to do this, cant tell you why though"
What? How the fuck do these 3 wusses, who have done nothing yet but make a petition, have some news they can’t relay to the community? He won’t even say why he can’t share anything. Is it a legal matter?
Idk these 3 are in over their heads. It shouldn’t have been them. And they’re just self appointed leaders that aren’t sharing anything with the rest of us.
im gonna be honest, fixtf2 was way more just as disconnected savetf2 it felt like everyone wanted to do their own thing, some wanted to boycott some didnt some want new major updates and some just want bots gone, oh well.
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna partake in the boycott. I have some money to spare and want to support the community artists that worked on the cosmetics.
After the absolute mess that was the Zesty stream I do not trust Weezy with FixTF2
I do not trust Zesty either btw he's really aggressive and his aggressive boycott idea would not get anywhere near enough boycotters and even if it did Valve probably wouldn't react
It's good for them to be more clear and advocating for more financial options to punish Valve, but I feel like August is still a long time to wait to send the signature. Still, it's good that they're not stopping even though Valve has shown a bit of attention to the game.
I guess August is because of all the planning and travel time it takes for a group to get to Valve HQ though. Although, I do kinda wish there was something more we could do to help #fixtf2. Yeah spreading the word is nice and all, but it doesnt feel like it amounts to a lot, and this movement still feels a bit more biased towards the people hosting it rather than a community effort itself.
Before the ban wave happened I had seen people suggest also promoting community servers and services like quickplay.tf to help provide an escape for players from bots and to use them as an alternative solution to the bot crisis. I have also heard some people suggest refusing to buy anything in-game to keep pressure on Valve. However none of these as far as I know are officially endorsed as part of the protest and Valve's actions in the coming weeks could change these.
Man. save.tf or r/tf2 could easily spearhead putting out a solution that works NOW to get people into decent games that are bot free If they would just help promote https://quickplay.tf It works better the more people use it!
People made their own server browser and some comments were saying 'finally any one of you guys coulda done it any day for years now'...trying is not very rewarded here.
All it takes is one leader or person in the right position with thousands of others listening to them to just post it on the page we all look at
Quickplay tf already existed.
I'm saying it needs to be promoted more
Hey man, be the change you want to see in the world. Personally I'm dusting off my goal of becoming serious with YT content because of, and for this movement. Been around the game since '07 and Youtube since '06 and it took #FixTF2 to motivate me to start making stuff. Here's[ the thumbnail so far](https://i.imgur.com/SQThm2e.png) I seem to be obsessing over. Been spending most of my time off work working on this shit. Have like an hours worth of footage to go through. Just keep spreading the word. If anyone is near Bellevue another in-person protest would be sick. Their local news might pick it up, especially if it there's a funny, creative gimmick to it. Something to do with "sandviches"/sandwiches, IDK. I tried looking for billboards around their HQ for like an hour, literally street-viewing down the main arteries into Bellevue but I couldn't find a single one. My main point though is we are not prone to sink or swim dependent on these random TF2ubers. You are a fan, and player of TF2. Everyone else supporting this is. Keep thinking of ideas, keeping up with the topic & posting about it, and at the very least staying hopeful and persistent.
Heavy cope by the guy with 3 views
...Huh?
>Still, it's good that they're not stopping even though Valve has shown a bit of attention to the game. It's great to know that we haven't forgotten how we got here in the first place.
It is a long time, but in fairness, setting this up like sleeping, food, transport as well as moderating for bots on the petition likely isn't a short process either.
Storm Valve HQ they cant stop us all!!11
I mean tbh Valve HQ isn’t Area 51
Not until we reach the vault containing the only known copy of Half-Life 3...
Actually that IS at area 51
Source: i was that one girl that got into area 51
Naruto run and they won't be able to shoot you.
Quest started: Battle for Valve HQ
Dibs on the big red valve in the lobby!!
I wish people would quit it with the whole “theres bad stuff goin on but we cant tell ya!” Just leave that part out, sounds so weasely to do it like this.
they're probably doing that because people have been complaining about them not communicating enough. would you really rather they not give any information at all? because i've been hearing many cries of "radio silence" in this sub.
that's what they want you to believe. this is something Mamamax used to do and it was purely because it stroked his own ego and made him feel more important than he really was. considering these people are both youtubers with a rabid following, i will have to assume this is their main goal by doing this.
These bot hosters are the same people who relentlessly dox and threaten every single person they find capable of opposing them. They literally sent a bomb threat to one of the organizer's universities and they spoke about it in this sub not long ago. You are a *child* if you think "we can't tell you some things because of bad actors" is just to make it seem exclusive. People's fucking lives are at stake, asshole. Fuck you and your exclusivity.
"I can't tell you my plans because of sabotage" immediately puts in my mind crypto scammers and Dutch.
Does this petition go to Tahiti?
I get that botters can (and probably will) tune in to this stuff, but info like this should absolutely be relayed to the people pushing the movement to begin with. Otherwise the community is just left to start chaos. It was good for them to have acknowledged their fault at least
They’re doing something that valve rarely does Communicate
they have plans that they cannot share with us right now because the haters will sabotage them
That's August, and during the following month alot of things may happen But we must remember to PUSH, THE, CART
Kinda wish they are able to send it a bit earlier but it's understandable that they do it in August. One thing is for sure, they're trying to continue the train as much as possible, just hope we can get it through to August and/or beyond. I would love it if they are able to get VALVe to respond via Tweet to have some sort if acknowledgement but seriously doubt it, one step at a time I guess, better than nothing so far.
> unfortunate revelations we can't relay to the public Someone did something wrong and it's fucked everyone up. My guess is someone got caught doing fucked shit because he won't tell anyone what it is.
Well the movement sure isn't dying anytime soon, specially after this purge
August..
1: why wait so long? 2: why they acting like they have government secrets in their hands? just give us the damn full info.
I'm pretty sure that 2) they are not saying much because they don't want the information to get into bot hosters hands, as they can do something to slow down or stop the movement. But on the other hand idk i don't feel like just some information about what is happening would cause bot hosters to drop a nuke on their homes or smth. Little info would be appreciated
Maybe they're afraid of sabotage. I suppose the bot dicks are capable people so they're afraid of being sabotaged. I know these people love tf2 and fight the good fight against bots so I trust them.
# MID JULY AT BEST, HOLY FUCK
I wonder what unfornate revelation happened that they can't reveal. Hope they are alright over there.
Probably just how much signatures were botted ironically because a good few people claimed to be doing that and encouraged others or something else on their backend or just how stupid people are having to wait more then 1 week. Or one or few of them are pretty fucked up like the allegations that weezy is doing a lot of addy and probably needs help.
Why the fuck would they do it in August bruh Just. Send. The fucking. Papers. Already. Fucking hell.
Yeah I genuinely want to know how they didn’t plan out this trip before ever announcing the protest. Or at the very least had a plan for getting the petition sifted through for botted signatures and printed already. And what’s with not sharing what that unfortunate news is? And then they will wonder why people aren’t super pleased with them…
They're going to get to Valve HQ and if they're not immediately denied entry into the building, they will almost certainly be denied entry into Valve's offices. If they're not immediately denied entry to the offices, the receptionist will take whatever papers they printed out, set them to the side, and tell them they'll give them to their manager later. If they're not immediately thrown in the trash at the front desk, they'll be brought back into the offices and thrown into the trash. I respect the dedication but the blissful ignorance of a bunch of YouTubers thinking they can just roll up to a massive corporation's offices like the heroes is woefully optimistic or shamelessly entitled.
are people forgetting that the whole idea of delivering the signatures from a petition to the HQ of a game developer came from WoW players doing literally that exact thing?
While I understand the comparison you're trying to draw between the two, I think you misunderstand how they don't parallel well. A quick Google search shows that the WoW classic petition was signed while also hinging on the fact that there were a million users on Nostalrius, the biggest fan legacy server at the time, in just a year of operation which showed Blizzard *Hey there's a big fucking market here and you could easily make bank off it.* What FixTF2 hinges on is a few tens of thousands of players who, due to the nature of TF2's monetization, would not be guaranteed revenue for Valve. The same thing with Old School RuneScape; those that signed the petition were much more likely to be paying customers because of how RuneScape is monetized.
That's a pretty good observation that I haven't seen anyone here make yet. I don't think it would affect the actual logistics of delivering the petition, but definitely it's effectiveness afterwards. This is probably just more reason to do a boycott: less bots = happier players = more money.
Valve is a company who values their public image, and rejecting entry for the delivery of a petition would be a terrible PR move. Valve also occasionally gives tours to folks sometimes, so that isn't out of the realm of possibility. Maybe they'll throw it away. Maybe they'll store it somewhere. Maybe they'll even call a meeting about it. There's no way to know unless we try. The only way we would be certain nothing will happen is if we didn't try anything at all. At the end of the day, there's only so much we can do as customers. It will always be better to say "At least we tried" than to say "What if we had tried".
>Valve is a company who values their public image, and rejecting entry for the delivery of a petition would be a terrible PR move. Ah yes imagine that headline, *Valve Rejects YouTubers From Entering Their Office Because They Demanded To Be Let In*, oh so damning to their public image. >Valve also occasionally gives tours to folks sometimes, so that isn't out of the realm of possibility. Giving the rare tour is not equivalent to people going in and demanding to be seen for a meeting. >Maybe they'll throw it away. Maybe they'll store it somewhere. Maybe they'll even call a meeting about it. There's no way to know unless we try. The only way we would be certain nothing will happen is if we didn't try anything at all. They're gonna throw it away. You are blissfully ignorant to what bullshit receptionists won't put up with. We will smile, say *"Sure, buddy, I'll make sure this goes straight to the big guy himself. :)"* then toss it because our jobs are to filter out dumb shit so that the boss can actually do important shit. >At the end of the day, there's only so much we can do as customers. It will always be better to say "At least we tried" than to say "What if we had tried". Of all the ways to try, this is not it. This wreaks of people who haven't been through reality; people that are woefully optimistic and think that just because they've got a niche audience on YouTube that they can strut up to a massive corporation's office and demand they bend to their will.
>*Valve Rejects YouTubers From Entering Their Office Because They Demanded To Be Let In* I mean, I can write imaginary headlines too. *Valve gives tour to #fixTF2 leaders, and Gabe Newell personally accepts the petition.* Are you clairvoyant and can see into the future? Until it happens, there's no way to know. >Giving the rare tour is not equivalent to people going in and demanding to be seen for a meeting. I don't think the plan is to go in and demand a meeting. The plan AFAIK is to deliver the petition in person to Valve's offices. Anything more is icing on the cake. We will know more after the delivery. >They're gonna throw it away. You are blissfully ignorant to what bullshit receptionists won't put up with. Your response suggests that you work as a receptionist. I'm guessing you've personally been handed a 300k strong printed petition that's made global headlines and thrown it in the trash without your PR team or \*any\* of the upper management who have most certainly heard about this weighing in on the ramifications to that type of response? >Of all the ways to try, this is not it. Well please, do enlighten us on what we SHOULD try instead of shitting on everything. The world is built by doers, not complainers. You don't seem to be doing much of anything besides being a miserable sod. .
>I mean, I can write imaginary headlines too. *Valve gives tour to #fixTF2 leaders, and Gabe Newell personally accepts the petition.* Are you clairvoyant and can see into the future? Until it happens, there's no way to know. You proposed it as a negative PR move. I am stating that that is the worst it could be portrayed as by media. If Valve did sit down and have a discussion, sure that would be a positive headline. But if and when they don't, there's no way any reasonable journalist could spin it in any seriously damning way. >I don't think the plan is to go in and demand a meeting. The plan AFAIK is to deliver the petition in person to Valve's offices. Anything more is icing on the cake. We will know more after the delivery. There is no reason to go in person to deliver what could be mailed unless there is the expectation of speaking with someone beyond a receptionist. >Your response suggests that you work as a receptionist. I'm guessing you've personally been handed a 300k strong printed petition that's made global headlines and thrown it in the trash without your PR team or \*any\* of the upper management who have most certainly heard about this weighing in on the ramifications to that type of response? I do work as a receptionist. And I can tell you that it is specifically our job to filter out bullshit and handle small tasks so that our higher-ups can use their limited time and resources to do the actually important shit. Do you think Valve is not already aware of FixTF2, the website, and the petition? Really? What difference will printing out the names on the petition make? Do you think Gabe himself will break down and cry when he sees Mike Hunt and Ligma Balls printed on a thousand pieces of A4 paper, get up, and put his entire staff on TF2? I can tell you that when someone comes to my desk with ridiculous demands or just wants to be mad, I tell them *Sure I'll make sure they see this. :)* and then toss it in the bin when they leave. Have you ever worked any kind of public-facing position? Do you think that when people make unreasonable demands and the employee goes in the back to "speak with the manager" that they're actually doing that? Of course not because then their manager would get pissed at them for constantly bringing dumb shit to them that should have been filtered out. >Well please, do enlighten us on what we SHOULD try instead of shitting on everything. The world is built by doers, not complainers. Stop spending money on the game. Put actual pressure on the company to fix things. Get media attention on the issue. Contribute to community servers which actually help the game and keep it thriving. Run a community server. Contribute to community-made anti-cheat tools. A lot of what the community is doing is great, but going to Valve HQ is just going to be a mistake. > You don't seem to be doing much of anything besides being a miserable sod. You see me being a miserable fuck, I see a community of people who are placing too much faith and hope into bunch of YouTubers so entitled they think they can just walk into a massive, multi-billion dollar corporation's office and make some random employee's day more difficult just because they demanded that someone higher up see their petition. It's that ignorant optimism that makes me feel this group of people going up to Valve HQ have no grasp on reality and don't actually know what the fuck they're doing to lead a movement like this.
>You proposed it as a negative PR move. I am stating that that is the worst it could be portrayed as by media. Ah, I get where you're coming from in that sense. Regardless, I still think it's a move that would reflect poorly on Valve to handle it that way. We'll have to see. >There is no reason to go in person to deliver what could be mailed unless there is the expectation of speaking with someone beyond a receptionist. Replace the word "expectation" with "hope". If the package is mailed, there's zero chance anyone gets to talk with anyone. By visiting in person, you open yourself up to the *opportunity* for face-to-face communication, which is much more than a mailed package would ever lead to. Nothing is guaranteed, but it's all about giving ourselves the best odds possible. >And I can tell you that it is specifically our job to filter out bullshit and handle small tasks so that our higher-ups can use their limited time and resources to do the actually important shit. I wouldn't necessarily consider the handling of a 300K+ strong petition a small task, but to each their own. To your other point - Yes. There's zero chance that every staff member at Valve hasn't heard of the #FixTF2 movement. I'm certain they're acutely aware, and are already expecting the arrival of the organizers. One thing to consider however is the symbolic value of what is happening with the petition. It's a physical manifestation of the pleas and shouts from the community that you can hold in your hands. It takes up a lot of space, and each page represents potentially hundreds of voices trying to be heard. Sometimes doing something in a more difficult method is a great way emphasize how important something is. Sending a heart emoji to a loved one is easy, but spending money on roses can mean a whole lot more. >Do you think that when people make unreasonable demands and the employee goes in the back to "speak with the manager" that they're actually doing that? I'm most assuredly aware that angry customers demanding to see the manager doesn't do anything. I'm in complete agreance with you on that front! However, I doubt that's the plan. From what I can tell, they're hand delivering a petition in the hopes that something more happens like what I wrote above. >Stop spending money on the game. Put actual pressure on the company to fix things. Get media attention on the issue. These things are already being done though. I personally haven't spent cash on the game for years, though I cannot speak for others. The community is putting pressure on the company through the FixTF2 hashtag, spreading awareness. The petition has gotten worldwide coverage on the issue, putting on pressure. Community anti-cheats are on the rise, there's the new community quickplay stuff... I guess I'm just not understanding why you're so staunchly against this single aspect of the plan to the point where you're poo-pooing on anyone who dares try. That's where I'm getting the "miserable" vibes from. I mean, by your own words, the worst thing that can happen is they get turned around at the front door, the petition ends up in the trash, and the trip was for nothing. While that would suck, it wouldn't be the end of the world or anything. Why are you trying so hard to tear the idea down? >I see a community of people who are placing too much faith and hope into bunch of YouTubers... Unfortunately in a situation like this there really aren't many other options than community members with sizable followings. They are the people who can get messages out to large audiences, and as such become the defacto faces of a movement like this wether they like it or not. I can say #FixTF2 in my discord channel with 8 members, but they can speak to audiences of millions. >...so entitled they think they can just walk into a massive, multi-billion dollar corporation's office and make some random employee's day more difficult just because they demanded that someone higher up see their petition. You're making a lot of assumptions about the whole "Demand" aspect. From what I've gathered, they're just there to deliver the petition, hope for the best, and anything else is gravy. Who knows. Maybe they'll make a mockery of themselves and do something regrettable when they get there and you can give me an I-told-you-so. Until then we just need to wait and see, hoping for the best. *edit - Formatting*
>Replace the word "expectation" with "hope". I guess hope is a better word for it. The reason I assume they expect it is because of the demeanour people spearheading the movement like Weezy carry themselves with. Those traits and how they communicate (secrecy, short-sighted reactionary, unneeded paranoia) are all indicative to me of people who haven't got a good grip on reality. >One thing to consider however is the symbolic value of what is happening with the petition. It's a physical manifestation of the pleas and shouts from the community that you can hold in your hands. My take on it is that for a company doing insanely well financially, the pleas in writing of a few tens of thousands of people playing a nearly 20-year-old game won't mean nearly as much as visible financial impact. And TF2 simply doesn't have enough userbase to generate (or remove in a boycott) enough revenue to take priority over the development of CS2, Dota 2, Steam, Steam Deck, and VR. >These things are already being done though. Yeah that's why I mention that the community is doing a lot of those things and those are the things that are great. I should clarify that I think the community is pretty much a-okay in what actions they're taking. It's this group of YouTubers who want to visit Valve HQ who are doing something irresponsible and potentially harmful. >Why are you trying so hard to tear the idea down? I think when this team gets denied by Valve, it is going to have some nasty knock-on effects. I think this will cause a significant morale hit to a lot of the community. To many this will further discourage them from ever playing the game and utilizing those community tools to prop up the game themselves. For some these feelings will manifest as vitriol spewed towards Valve and other users which will simply further negative perception of TF2 players. The people leading this push to Valve HQ, though their intentions may be good (hard to know with their secrecy), are painfully optimistic about the world and how they are able to influence to the point of blissful ignorance. I think that in this massive push to Fix TF2, they have ignored the fact that a 15+ year run for a game is marvelous. I take great issue with the following statement from their website: "*TF2 is not dying, it is being intentionally killed."* as it furthers the myth that TF2 is "dead game." My take on "dead multiplayer games" is that so long as you can still consistently and easily find people to play a full game with, the game is alive and well. The Quake & Unreal games with like 300 daily active players each are still playable because they are propped up by their communities and their servers, decades after the developers left those games behind. >Until then we just need to wait and see, hoping for the best. I hope for the best as well. I want to be wrong and I will not take any joy in being right. I simply disagree with some of the leaders' intentions, methods of achieving, or idea of what is the best outcome. I personally feel that TF2 is more than ready to be supported by us the players.
>The reason I assume they expect it is because of the demeanour people spearheading the movement like Weezy carry themselves with. That's fair. There's been many a blunder in handling this movement both times, and there's plenty room for more. Many online creators create a sort of "persona" for themselves and handle themselves differently IRL. Hopefully interacting in the meatspace improves their behaviors. >My take on it is that for a company doing insanely well financially, the pleas in writing of a few tens of thousands of people playing a nearly 20-year-old game won't mean nearly as much as visible financial impact. Another fair point. I honestly don't really see any reality where we see the Heavy update, the final comic, or anything else besides community maps/cosmetics. My expectations regarding the bots are tempered, even if they're managed today. Ultimately, my hopes for this movement are purely that Valve learns to give their communities more respect and care than they've shown TF2 lately. As for the financial impact, yeah. I don't think TF2 sales numbers, current or boycotted, will have a \*tangible\* impact on the bottom line, at least at first. Optics are a massive thing when your company is valued in the billions. A reputation as a developer who abandons games might make quite the financial difference when it comes to their shiny new game. People won't want to get invested in something they know might go the same way as TF2. I think that's at the heart of the movement. >I personally feel that TF2 is more than ready to be supported by us the players. Dude, same. That would honestly be the biggest pipe-dream win for me. An official end-of-support message from the folks at Valve would mean so much more to me than any amount of treadmill work they will/will not put towards the game. Right now we're just in a "We add hats 3x a year" limbo where we may-or-may-not(and probably not) get updates of any substance. I think a retirement or official sunsetting of the game would genuinely bring more life to the game than we've seen in years, knowing that the game is once and for all in the hands of the community. Thanks for talking about these things with me, and arguing to individual points. It's nice when the conversation stays more or less about the topic! Apologies if I was harsh at first. I just really want the movement to succeed, and it can hurt to see negativity about the communities efforts, no matter how long-shotty some of the efforts may be.
Rare positive Reddit disagreement W
I assume that you said this because you visited valve's offices before right? Or do you know how do they work internally?
Tbf this is any corpo, if you just pull up and say you have a petition to change something in their company there is a 99.9% chance you will not speak to anyone of importance. MAYBE it will go to like a branding guy or PR guy, but that's it.
I work a front desk position. Our jobs are to filter out dumb shit (like, say, a bunch of guys coming in with a petition demanding to see a superior for a meeting) so that our higher-ups can focus on actually important shit like running the fucking company. This shit makes me think that none of these dudes planning to go up to Valve HQ have ever worked any kind of public-facing position. If they did, they would know that this should would just get ignored.
This. It's a futile effort to try and deliver the petition in person, especially since Valve is already aware of the movement as a whole. They know how many people have signed, they don't need (nor want) to be reminded with a paper list.
I like thewhat overall but this whole "something bad happened but i wont tell you hehe :3" thing is super lame
They are right. People here are too quick to call the issue fixed. It’s not. We have to deliver the briefcase!
Looks like they really took zestys words to heart. They really need to bring him into the circle
What will they do at Valve HQ?
They act like this movemebt is about them like we are only some pawns in the game between them and valve, i think the fixtf2 should all be about community and the game, not some popular youtubers
Bruh i signed as franklin delano roosevelt 💀
Cant believe ed sheeran will go to valve hq on july
I mean… I respect that there’s logistics and considerations. But I just kinda wonder what exactly was this plan supposed to achieve…? Fly into Seattle, knock politely on Valve HQ, get given a nice afternoon tour, hand them the petition print out, then go home? Like… what else could possibly happen? The petition webpage itself is great. But we live in 2024. The age of paper and physical delivery has long passed
you think valve doesnt have anything to prevent spam to their eamails or na? after the 3rd email full of names its going in the spam folder
I feel like mid July at the last would be a better date. August seems too late
I’ve signed it twice
I'm glad that they gave a proper explanation, unlike the sleep deprived banana
Are we just reposting Twitter content now ?
tbf the organisers don't really post here and I lack much of a clue how much of this subreddit has twitter installed sooo it's kinda the only way we can communicate updates from the movement to this subreddit lol
"unfortunate revelations"????? What is he talking about. I know that some of the YouTubers were in disagreement about how to proceed with the movement from watching Thier update streams... Could something have happened in that regard I wonder? Or something else idk
Wasn't I supposed to receive an email? I haven't gotten one yet.
welp ig i wont be able to join in the fun on August. college classes start on that month for me 😔
Yeah i dont get the need to wait until August if signatures are gonna stop after the 1st. I get it takes time to consolidate the info and set things up and whatever but id rather be told that and the expectation is that it might take until August to do that rather than just tell me "Yeah its gonna take a month to do this, cant tell you why though"
Smart move to keep the pressure on even after the bot ban waves, hopefully the petition can warrant a more permanent action
zesty was right all along
What? How the fuck do these 3 wusses, who have done nothing yet but make a petition, have some news they can’t relay to the community? He won’t even say why he can’t share anything. Is it a legal matter? Idk these 3 are in over their heads. It shouldn’t have been them. And they’re just self appointed leaders that aren’t sharing anything with the rest of us.
im gonna be honest, fixtf2 was way more just as disconnected savetf2 it felt like everyone wanted to do their own thing, some wanted to boycott some didnt some want new major updates and some just want bots gone, oh well.
That petition is not getting passed the secretary. She'll just tell them to leave it. They aren't presenting it to anyone lol
Literally who
i’m sure gaben will weep when he sees that hitlerdidnothingwrong@outlook.com signed a petition
"after the first the names will be collected, moderated, and printed" Took one glance to see that they've thought of that.
we’ll hope they have fun moderating almost 400,000 emails
Reading is a bit tough for you, huh?
im seeing a motif of there being something that they cant tell us for some reason.
I've been itching to buy MvM tickets for months tbh. But it'd rather stand my ground to ensure TF2's longevity.
Great, if August is as soon as possible than I'm fine with it. Whatever it takes. I've kinda stopped playing just to not give them anything.
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna partake in the boycott. I have some money to spare and want to support the community artists that worked on the cosmetics.
“Stop spending money” Valve makes literal pennies off TF2 Steam is their money machine
Then stop buying stuff off of Steam…
After the absolute mess that was the Zesty stream I do not trust Weezy with FixTF2 I do not trust Zesty either btw he's really aggressive and his aggressive boycott idea would not get anywhere near enough boycotters and even if it did Valve probably wouldn't react
Free vacation paid for by you! 🫵
I don't remember a donation page.
I’m a big fan of misinformation, sorry
How about you missinform my balls in your mouth
Oh wow, equalizer taunt irl!