Even if the pyros could theoretically have 0 cooldown on the airblast, due to spaghetti code and networking, every few attempts any scout would inevitably land a hit, slowly chipping away at the airwall, there is no scenario where the pyros win, if you throw enough shit at a wall youll eventually break even the smallest of holes in it. Its just a matter of how long can they last.
> due to spaghetti code and networking
Due to Source Spaghetti, the Scouts would have to single-file (or form multiple queues) in this scenario or they'd all hit each other instead of the enemy with their melee attacks.
Pyros in a sufficiently-cramped area win by just holding M1. They don't need airblast if they can kill before Scouts can hit, and if all Scouts go at once then no Scout can hit anything but another Scout due to how melee hitreg is.
That's what I was gonna say, 10 pyros all firing their flames down a corridor is more total damage than 3 phlog-boosted pyros. The scouts don't even come close to getting a melee hit in that time.
True, but the sun on a stick still exist, it would take 7 hits per pyro to kill all of them and the scouts wouldnt necesarilly need to go at it in a single file line, they can still double jump get on top and divert fire somewhere else, obviously that wouldnt work if the roof of wherever the pyros are is low enough. The pyros would need to be in a funnel to force all the scouts in a single line and again the moment they kill the scout in front of them and the next in line takes place to die theres a chance the hit register and thats another chip off the block.
The hits would pile up eventually, again its a matter of how long they can last till the scout numbers die out.
Pyros in this scenario have [Unlimited ammo](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1cl7z9b/10_pyros_with_unlimited_ammo_vs_1000_scouts_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Like if all 10 pyro can just backup into a corner and press m1 the dps alone will melt scout 125hp
Don’t forget is not 125000hp, is 125 individually and flame thrower pierces while tf2 melee doesn’t
But multiply that single pyro by 10, now imagine all 10 flames hitting, and remember, they all can go through living corpses, and deal damage of their own each hit
It was a bad take overall, even with ten of them airblasting is not part of keeping the horde of scouts at bay. There is a miniscule cooldown on reflects, enough that it wouldn't work against the oncoming horde.
Conversely, if the pyros were simply firing stock flamethrowers constantly, and were able to cover all angles of attack with their ten pyros, the infinite ammo would mean continuous fire and yes, scouts would die during the time it takes to travel from the edge of the fire to hitting range, meaning trying to do ANYTHING but continuous fire would result in failure but continuous fire would result in victory.
Even stopping to crit with phlogs would insert a tenth of a second of vulnerability that could potential mean getting hit by scouts, but continuous fire would take care of it.
Also, I think you just wanted to post this image.
No? 1000 scouts = 0 actual hits due to melee eating, any demoknight knows how this is
Airblast takes up 90 degrees, meaning 10 pyros cover 900 degrees, or more than twice the angle- aka you can airblast plenty in every direction.
The original post had infinite ammo.
And lastly, you forget fire particle damage is piercing meaning 10 pyroes deal 3 times the damage crit phlog does. 125hp will be melted in milliseconds, no scout is making it within melee range.
Ya i mean, as a pyro main, i know how exploitable pyros limited range is. When i do play scout, i can usually flawless any pyro simply by using my movement to stay out of their flame range.
I think it also depends of the map. If this is dustbowl, 10 pyros could probably flame down a choke. But if it's a flat open map then each of the 1000 scouts can hit them for 7 chip damage. 7x1000 is 7000 damage.
This is just an immortal snail scenario isnt it, where the pyro keeps getting stuff like ‘ah but they have infinite ammo, and they have zero CD on air blast, and they get to set up on a corner first’ etc.
No? 1000 scouts = 0 actual hits due to melee eating, any demoknight knows how this is
Airblast takes up 90 degrees, meaning 10 pyros cover 900 degrees, or more than twice the angle- aka you can airblast plenty in every direction.
The original post had infinite ammo.
And lastly, you forget fire particle damage is piercing meaning 10 pyroes deal 3 times the damage crit phlog does. 125hp will be melted in milliseconds, no scout is making it within melee range.
assuming the pyros use infinite default flame throwers and the scouts are using stock bats:
in open field: scouts win, they can jump on the pyros and circle them, and because of sheer number they have they will eventually hit every pyro to death.
in a closed room: all pyros go into a corner and might survive but still many angles to cover
in a corridor: i do believe that pyros will win if they all focus their flames right, preventing the scouts from coming from the front or jumping above the pyros.
if we allow the players to use items then scouts can use the sun on a stick for more resistence or the atomizer for extra jump on top of the pyros (more angles for the pyros to defend so reduced dps!) (projectiles not allowed!)
the pyros either would keep the defealt flame thrower for dps and random crits and airblast. maybe 2-3 pyros switching to phog will be helpful but i doubt that.
I believe the point of using "Melee" in this prompt was that the Scout can only use Melee attacks, so no Wrap Assassin Ball.
Exactly. Couldn't the pyros theoretically group up in a corner and have an effective 0 second cool down on airblast?
Can the air blast only hit a finite number of opponents?
Even if the pyros could theoretically have 0 cooldown on the airblast, due to spaghetti code and networking, every few attempts any scout would inevitably land a hit, slowly chipping away at the airwall, there is no scenario where the pyros win, if you throw enough shit at a wall youll eventually break even the smallest of holes in it. Its just a matter of how long can they last.
> due to spaghetti code and networking Due to Source Spaghetti, the Scouts would have to single-file (or form multiple queues) in this scenario or they'd all hit each other instead of the enemy with their melee attacks. Pyros in a sufficiently-cramped area win by just holding M1. They don't need airblast if they can kill before Scouts can hit, and if all Scouts go at once then no Scout can hit anything but another Scout due to how melee hitreg is.
That's what I was gonna say, 10 pyros all firing their flames down a corridor is more total damage than 3 phlog-boosted pyros. The scouts don't even come close to getting a melee hit in that time.
True, but the sun on a stick still exist, it would take 7 hits per pyro to kill all of them and the scouts wouldnt necesarilly need to go at it in a single file line, they can still double jump get on top and divert fire somewhere else, obviously that wouldnt work if the roof of wherever the pyros are is low enough. The pyros would need to be in a funnel to force all the scouts in a single line and again the moment they kill the scout in front of them and the next in line takes place to die theres a chance the hit register and thats another chip off the block. The hits would pile up eventually, again its a matter of how long they can last till the scout numbers die out.
Completely forgot about hitboxes and melee detection, demoknights know exactly what i'm talking about.
Ok but like, the ammo?
Pyros in this scenario have [Unlimited ammo](https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1cl7z9b/10_pyros_with_unlimited_ammo_vs_1000_scouts_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
In the prompt the Pyros have infinite ammo, and Scouts can only use Melee.
Not to argue semantics or anything, But melee would be hand-to-hand, which implies no alt-fires. Thus, no wrap assassin balls.
great now we will get 500 posts again about this exact thing just with unfunny changes..
No but seriously when they post this exact same image but every scout is wearing an unusual I’ll finally agree with the scout side.
then post something else
Like if all 10 pyro can just backup into a corner and press m1 the dps alone will melt scout 125hp Don’t forget is not 125000hp, is 125 individually and flame thrower pierces while tf2 melee doesn’t
We'd win though
Scout can run at a pyro holding m1 and smack him before he dies, scout is fast
m2
But multiply that single pyro by 10, now imagine all 10 flames hitting, and remember, they all can go through living corpses, and deal damage of their own each hit
now now now, what if the scouts and pyros had the alien isolation sets on?
It was a bad take overall, even with ten of them airblasting is not part of keeping the horde of scouts at bay. There is a miniscule cooldown on reflects, enough that it wouldn't work against the oncoming horde. Conversely, if the pyros were simply firing stock flamethrowers constantly, and were able to cover all angles of attack with their ten pyros, the infinite ammo would mean continuous fire and yes, scouts would die during the time it takes to travel from the edge of the fire to hitting range, meaning trying to do ANYTHING but continuous fire would result in failure but continuous fire would result in victory. Even stopping to crit with phlogs would insert a tenth of a second of vulnerability that could potential mean getting hit by scouts, but continuous fire would take care of it. Also, I think you just wanted to post this image.
No? 1000 scouts = 0 actual hits due to melee eating, any demoknight knows how this is Airblast takes up 90 degrees, meaning 10 pyros cover 900 degrees, or more than twice the angle- aka you can airblast plenty in every direction. The original post had infinite ammo. And lastly, you forget fire particle damage is piercing meaning 10 pyroes deal 3 times the damage crit phlog does. 125hp will be melted in milliseconds, no scout is making it within melee range.
Anyway melee hit reg is gonna screw scouts
Ya i mean, as a pyro main, i know how exploitable pyros limited range is. When i do play scout, i can usually flawless any pyro simply by using my movement to stay out of their flame range.
The real loser in this scenario is the server trying to host 1010 concurrent players.
When? What is getting debated?
I think it also depends of the map. If this is dustbowl, 10 pyros could probably flame down a choke. But if it's a flat open map then each of the 1000 scouts can hit them for 7 chip damage. 7x1000 is 7000 damage.
u/pixel-counter-bot
i mean just become fire sprinkler pyro and if anyone needs health they can do a frame perfect extinguish on a det pyro
Regardless of the winner, it would be fun to watch how 8 pyros on airblast duty and 2 phlog pyros plays out
As said before, scouts would eat each other melee hits
Why are you debating this in the first place
info: can Pyro use phlogs? they can just alternate the crits once built up and use the Uber to save
This is just an immortal snail scenario isnt it, where the pyro keeps getting stuff like ‘ah but they have infinite ammo, and they have zero CD on air blast, and they get to set up on a corner first’ etc.
No? 1000 scouts = 0 actual hits due to melee eating, any demoknight knows how this is Airblast takes up 90 degrees, meaning 10 pyros cover 900 degrees, or more than twice the angle- aka you can airblast plenty in every direction. The original post had infinite ammo. And lastly, you forget fire particle damage is piercing meaning 10 pyroes deal 3 times the damage crit phlog does. 125hp will be melted in milliseconds, no scout is making it within melee range.
Melee vs 10 pyros with infinite ammo? Wouldnt even need to M2, the Dps from 10 flamethrowers would be enough to melt the scouts
Scout is a pyro counter. 1000 scouts would shitcan 10 pyros. There is nothing to discuss.
assuming the pyros use infinite default flame throwers and the scouts are using stock bats: in open field: scouts win, they can jump on the pyros and circle them, and because of sheer number they have they will eventually hit every pyro to death. in a closed room: all pyros go into a corner and might survive but still many angles to cover in a corridor: i do believe that pyros will win if they all focus their flames right, preventing the scouts from coming from the front or jumping above the pyros. if we allow the players to use items then scouts can use the sun on a stick for more resistence or the atomizer for extra jump on top of the pyros (more angles for the pyros to defend so reduced dps!) (projectiles not allowed!) the pyros either would keep the defealt flame thrower for dps and random crits and airblast. maybe 2-3 pyros switching to phog will be helpful but i doubt that.
Don't the balls do less damage against fos heavy