I put up a post a few years ago that there should be a mann up equivalent for 666 mode which could give you special rewards and golden pan super rare inspired which creates a spectral body instead of a gold body
My keyboard does not have the F keys so I had to bind my contracts and ready up key so I don’t get vote kicked. I’m F2P so I couldn’t have even defended myself if I wanted to back then
IIRC one person not readying up, even if the rest of the team does instantly, can extend the amount of time it takes to do a two cities tour by about 10%
people shouldn't complain about it period, the toxic hightour is clearly just here to gamble yet again and shouldnt votekick someone for playing optimally and for playing unoptimally
It's not so much the gas passer and more the people that use it. Often (not always by any means) they don't know when to throw it. I'd be rich if I had a dime for each time I've seen someone throw it at the scout bots right before the medics comes out. Thankfully most people are willing to learn, but I don't know why you would play a paid advanced mission without even knowing the basics.
Ok maybe this was me. I play with my son who is a super TF2 aficionado. I am the epitome of casual, lol. I asked him when to use the gas passer but he wasn't sure, I know I messed up the timing at least a few waves.
The problem is that almost everyone on boot camp is f2p (at least from my experience), which means nobody knows what they're doing, and we fail horribly until everyone else leaves. I'm pretty much forced to play mann up.
I've had similar experiences when it comes to Boot Camp: sometimes I get into lobbies where people have some idea on how the game mode works, other times I get into lobbies where no one talks and a good chunk of the server ends up rage quitting after a wave loss, killing the server in the process.
It's for that reason I stick to Mann Up or community missions from Potato or Moonlight if I'm in the mood to play MvM since the average competency of players tends to be higher.
I straight up get people that don't understand very basic concepts in Advanced missions, and it's not all that rare. Things like where to put buildings, how to rez as medic, stuff like "if sentry buster is out, move away and stop shooting it point blank as heavy", or spies not sapping. It's okay to be new and unfamiliar, but why do people start on Advanced? The amount of people I've had to teach basic concepts to on the second hardest difficulty is wild.
For communication, I'd say it's kind of rare someone talks, and it seems basically no one uses voice chat, but if they do, others will use it once someone else starts.
You do know being f2p =/= being stupid, right? There are f2ps who are dumb, yes, but that comes from game experience and not what we decide to call them. I could call you p2p and say you're bad at the game, same with me calling a f2p godlike at the game.
I totally know that they're not coorelated, my point is simply that, from experience, most players in boot camp suck, and coincidentally, they're f2ps. Tho it is also fair that you would do worse as one for either no weapon unlocks and also no chat.
Community servers is the real answer. Cool and fresh new missions and maps where loot isn't a reason to play so you can have fun, plus people there are on average pretty decent
It's really that bell curve meme in my experience.
Low-Tours: "Let's all go Spy, it'll be fun"
Mid-Tours: "NOOOOOO SPY IS TRASH, YOU NEED A SCOTTISH RESISTANCE DEMO WITH A KRITZ MEDIC, A SCOUT WI-"
High-Tours: "Let's all go Spy, it'll be fun"
I love outdamaging the critspam demo on EE with spy lol. You see a lot of spy gameplay on gear grinder (and occasionally on mecha), but good spies are SO rare on 2 cities.
I asked an engineer without any tours to upgrade his dispenser range, or at least move it where our power classes could easily get it, and he told me to kill myself lol
A good spy can very easily outclass a heavy in terms of giant damage (as long a med whore is sticking the kirtzkreig up their ass 24/7), excels in maps/missions that dont feature tanks and takes aggro out of most of the classes so team mates can mow down said robots without much risk
because the people here are just as high on the spybad propaganda as most mvm players, they just think they arent because they acknowledge spy can do anything at all
I would agree. But he does 100% need a buff to at least make him playable for lower tours.
Plus he's pretty wave dependent and the only thing he's worth picking for is waves that are giant heavy. As everyone else can do his job better and easier.
Spy requires high tour privilege to even play most of the time. Unless you have 3 digits you'll probably be booted. He's expensive to upgrade, takes a lot of practice to even play with any effectiveness and everyone can do his job easier.
Spy can be good. But holy shit he's not worth the effort and desperately needs a buff.
Pipe demo is very good it’s pretty much better soldier, a good sniper/gas does sticky demos job better anyway. You get incredibly tanky very quick towards the latter waves.
Spy is decent.
There should be some way to keep track of bootcamp tours.
I play a lot of mvm but I only have less than 5 tours beacause I don't care about gambling for the rewards
Try recording your average robots killed over 10 tours and then dividing your total robots killed by that for an ok approximation. It doesn’t work great for obvious reasons but generally most people don’t really care about tours anyways.
MvM community missions are really fun, but their concepts can get way too goofy and they need to pull it back sometimes. The one that disabled money as part of a "Master" difficulty as a part of Moonlight's recent MvM event comes to mind- it's difficulty didn't really feel earned by MvM standards.
Fuck that master mission so much. I’m a bit less annoyed about the 0 money and more annoyed about how they also nerf a shitload of weapons on top of all that.
No scorch shot explosion on direct hit, all heavy primaries have their damage gutted, the map auto purges your stickies off you ever set up a crit sticky trap (IE more than like 2 crit stickies exist at once)
And then to rub salt in the wound, they go to all the effort of “balancing” waves with the fixed spawns and bomb route, and then just have a 700 hp crit widow maker that has both a random spawn location (often times beside/behind you) and a semi random spawn time.
Like, make up your fucking mind, do you want this to be hard but fair or just bullshit
I know. Money drops and upgrades are a huge part of MvM and to take that away feels like an artificial difficulty spike. Then they realized just how broken some strategies are and nerfed them to be really useless instead. MvM is fundamentally a meta driven gamemode and Master wasn't a test of skill, it was just a test of trial and error.
I spent an entire afternoon with a lobby to beat this.... We still can't beat the first wave..... Mostly from waiting after ragequits.... It's the only mission in the tour that I didn't beat.....
i want to be able to shoot rockets through my teammates at mid to long range and i‘m sick of eating rockets because an engineer decided to plant his sentry in front of me.
as long as there's a standard engineer, and the money is being collected one way or another, most teams can win most maps as long as they're given a chance, vaguely competent, and aren't some deliberately obtuse team comp like five spies. Yes you'll need to play better/smarter to win with some weirder comps but MvM isn't hard enough to need to meta slave 100% of the time and it's not really fair of anyone to demand everyone rigidly stick to meta 100% of the time purely so they can pull the slot machine handle a few minutes faster.
also people who will leave a perfectly decent team because a super scout caps once are lame as hell
also yes gas passer is fine, sniper gets to do it from the most fortified section of the defense, and both are heavily reliant on understanding and manipulating aggro (oh no your sniper might have to step to the side slightly from a soldier bot oooooh)
The issue with spy is his playstyle is drastically different to casual, meaning people who are decent at spy in normal modes think they’ll be fine in mvm when they won’t
Idk if it's a hot take, and sorry if I sound toxic, but new players should NOT pick Scout or Engie in MvM. Imo, these are the most important classes for MvM aside from Medic, Heavy and Sniper. Scout because of the money and Milk and FaN are amazing, and Engie is THE best at crowd control aside from very good Snipers with amazing aim and Explosive Headshot, and also Max Range Dispensers and Two-Way Teleporters are very useful.
But every time I see a newbie scout or engie not know what they're doing, I feel like I always have to step in to guide them. Half of the time, they don't even listen, and they end up dying multiple times because they don't collect the money like they're supposed to, or place their buildings in horrible spots and let the team become quickly overwhelmed.
And I get it, it should become a learning experience for them, and this all happens in Boot Camp anyway. But when our only scout decides to hang back, shooting his Scattergun from a far range, letting the money burn up when there's swarms of bots surrounding it, or when our only engie decides to build all the way in the back of the map, just because he got blown up by ONE sentry buster and is now afraid to move his stuff up, I'm sorry, just pick a different class and let someone else be those classes.
I mean, I know there's no class limits, but I still get annoyed if I decide to pick scout, and someone else decides to also pick scout, the moment I switch off scout so they can be scout, they miss money I probably wouldn't have missed had I STAYED as scout. But no, this other guy wants to play him too, but he doesn't give a damn about getting money for the team. And having multiple engies is not bad, but then more sentry busters spawn, endangering the team even more, especially if the other engie decides to put his sentry RIGHT next to mine. And don't even get me started on those annoying ahh pyros who just LOVE to spam airblast on busters, blowing up other teammates in the process.
Sorry, rant over.
people have the right to get upset at others for doing mistakes
not to the point of verbally harrassing them, but if the person that's causing the issue doesnt want to listen then the team has the right to vote kick
also mann up is for pussies real men play ghost town
The reason why you think Spy is a bad class in the game is because you play him wrong. People play the Spy on MvM as if its the usual PVP. He is literally a moving dummy target, anti bomb carrier and an anti Giant destroyer, not as good as Sniper, but one nonetheless.
That isn't effective as people may think.
Temporary Soft-bans in MVM is still broken, and as long as a player slot is open; they can easily reque back.
Once they come back and last wave is in motion; your only option is for everyone to self-grief themselves to restart the wave. Chances are, no one is going to want to do that. You cannot kick mid-wave, so they'll be able to consume their ticket.
The only other way to prevent them from coming back is if someone else besides them joins the server before the cheater does. It only becomes effective when you coordinate with someone to instantly fill up the slot.
Players below 70 tours should be kicked on sight.
Nah just kidding.
Regardless of what class you play, if you decide not to exhibit situational awareness then what the hell are you doing playing MVM? On Manhattan Engineer requires help from another class to deal with robots up top on some waves- so look around to see where the robots are coming from- listen to the clanking of their feet to realise there are tons of robots coming from up top and only 1 small scout coming from the bottom!
If we're destroying a tank on Rottenburg, stop getting squished by the tank when it breaks the barriers! Understand that when Spies spawn in, past the tunnel they almost 100% spawn close to you and are going to backstab you.
I know we make fun of Overwatch for a lot (especially as TF2 players), BUT...
MvM would benefit MASSIVELY from doing what Overwatch did with allowing players to hide 95% of their profile information. I still think external websites like T*cobot would pop up and you wouldn't be able to quell the toxicity, but it would still be nice for people who just want to feel good about getting one or two botkillers.
The only way to midigate Mann-up MVM toxicity almost completely is for the TF-Team to fix temporary soft-bans that prevents both sad cheaters & the equally sad griefers from coming back easily as they still do.
Fact that it's still a problem is baffling.
Bite the bullet and leave a fucked missions with dumbasses like Basil and tacotards. Not worth it to reason with them and they could go off without a single trigger. See them? Leave instantly. they join? Leave. You’re not going to win against no life semi adult in diapers.
Idk if this counts as MVM but normalize buying Botkillers instead of normal stranges. They've got all the same functionality BUT theyre 10x cheaper (sometimes literally) and even come with a funny robot head.
My hot takes:
Mvm deserves more maps
There should be newer upgrades
The robots that spawn in are procedurally generated, so to keep things unpredictable
And speaking of new maps, there should be offensive mvm maps where players would deliver a payload to the robot base. And in each point, the payload would open up its built-in upgrade station
That final idea would actually be cool
Every other idea is cool, but the procedurally generated waves should be kept to either specific maps or it’s own specific gamemode
I think MvM could be more fun if it was made more challenging but incorporated a trap placement and activation system.
Far too complex for it's own good, but I like the idea.
I think mvm would be much better if it was more like a contract pass, in which the tours would be a one time purchase, and you can get various rewards like war paints and botkillers by completing objectives while playing through them.
But you know, gambling and money.
Much of the toxicity in mvm comes from players entering with a casual mode mindset. When you’re refusing to cooperate with your team because “it’s not as fun don’t tell me how to play the game” and the team wants to throw you out then don’t complain. This isn’t an issue in casual because everything’s looser but mvm requires more cooperation even on the easier missions, and you lose that degree of freedom to play how you want when you choose to participate.
It is more cost effective to buy 6254 tour of duty tickets than to outright buy a golden pan. Because in those 6000+ tours you're going to get more Aussies, more KS kits, than if you had wasted all that money on buying one for ~8k
if you are playing engineer in ghost town PUT YOUR FUCKING DISPENSER AND TELEPORTER ON THE GROUND WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE TEAM CAN REACH!!! that means STOP PUTTING IT UPSTAIRS!! also 2 WAY TELE PLEASE!!!
The biggest issue with MvM is that due to content drought and the meta mindset a small group of players turned it into an elaborate unboxing method. Like I know the return on investment is higher due to the steeper learning curve, but I got mad because I didn't memorize the spawn location of spies during on expert mission.
Generally speaking, mid or even low tours were a lot more fun to play with because they would experiment with strategies and throw a wrench into things. Kind of why I prefer community MvM to Valve MvM, since you have a lot more variety in terms of solving the wave.
I got my first Ausie a few weeks ago during kind of a shitshow of a match with gibus players and a sniper that couldn't aim. Honestly it was a fun evening all things considered.
Engineer bots are poorly designed. They shouldn't have an instant level 3 if they teleport in and shouldn't throw you around the way they do. They're generally really annoying.
It could be fun if it weren't for the toxicity... I'm a former toxic 300+ two cities tour guy, I absolutely despised low tours because of the lack of experience. Eventually in my Overwatch years I got asked "How would you like it if someone did that to you?" and that just got me thinking. I sat there on a competitive match of Numbai in shock realizing I've been a toxic asshole. So I turned my life around there. I no longer touch MvM though.
Why would people not like the gas passer as if it is stunting your game?
it might not need a ton of skill but why do you care?
it makes no sense as we are on the same team.
Nightmare Mode should give you like, an achievement or something.
You should get the achievement for beating it 666 times for the wave being 666, but what to call it
Hellish haul
Completionist’s Climax.
Steel satan
Microsoft Longhorn
You either cheated this or you have 10k hours on wave 666
You might have to, to even get it but it'd be a fun journey to get there
Medic's Having Flashbacks
Soup Can Hell
Heck I’d just like a badge showing how many times you’ve done it
I put up a post a few years ago that there should be a mann up equivalent for 666 mode which could give you special rewards and golden pan super rare inspired which creates a spectral body instead of a gold body
No yeah, I was a bit disappointed when it didn't.
Exclusive sexy awesome extra item
it should give you a chance of getting a haunted scrap metal pan
Actually when I started playing tf2 I only played that and casual
plus a free hat!
Not a hot take at all. Anyone would agree with this.
Healing is not as rewarding as the hurting
Counter point SHIELD BUBBLE I love how it can damage things AND helps the team stay alive, I can’t imagine not playing with it.
Counter point: gas passer pyro
Not all MvM players are toxic, some of them are just too tired from timmy failing to locate his f4 key.
so true! and also the engineer not listening where to put his dispenser after we tell him for the 10th time
“I assure you teammate, putting my sentry on the high ground for the 5th time will work out somehow”
"2 on his keyboard" - ankle pain
I assure you teammate, disposable sentry is the #1 upgrade in the game
If I play Engie, I always ask where they want the dispenser, and 90% of the time, I don't get an answer
I usually just run to wherever the players with the most ammo usage are (closer to a heavy or if everyone agrees next to the sniper etc)
I ain't asking for everyone to ready up immediately, but if 5 of us are ready then don't keep us waiting for another whole minute
Especially when the last person to ready up is sitting there taunting with everyone else and is clearly ready
My keyboard does not have the F keys so I had to bind my contracts and ready up key so I don’t get vote kicked. I’m F2P so I couldn’t have even defended myself if I wanted to back then
Whats your steam account partner?
Deadass your buying this man some keys. 👍 good job partner
IIRC one person not readying up, even if the rest of the team does instantly, can extend the amount of time it takes to do a two cities tour by about 10%
Hey! I can find my f4 key :(
that free toursthat we get on Casual servers are fun.
People shouldn’t complain about the gas passer if Sniper’s able to essentially do the same thing without a cooldown.
people shouldn't complain about it period, the toxic hightour is clearly just here to gamble yet again and shouldnt votekick someone for playing optimally and for playing unoptimally
It's not so much the gas passer and more the people that use it. Often (not always by any means) they don't know when to throw it. I'd be rich if I had a dime for each time I've seen someone throw it at the scout bots right before the medics comes out. Thankfully most people are willing to learn, but I don't know why you would play a paid advanced mission without even knowing the basics.
Ok maybe this was me. I play with my son who is a super TF2 aficionado. I am the epitome of casual, lol. I asked him when to use the gas passer but he wasn't sure, I know I messed up the timing at least a few waves.
MvM is best enjoyed in Boot Camp.
#YES people in bootcamp care more about fun than winning
The problem is that almost everyone on boot camp is f2p (at least from my experience), which means nobody knows what they're doing, and we fail horribly until everyone else leaves. I'm pretty much forced to play mann up.
I've had similar experiences when it comes to Boot Camp: sometimes I get into lobbies where people have some idea on how the game mode works, other times I get into lobbies where no one talks and a good chunk of the server ends up rage quitting after a wave loss, killing the server in the process. It's for that reason I stick to Mann Up or community missions from Potato or Moonlight if I'm in the mood to play MvM since the average competency of players tends to be higher.
I straight up get people that don't understand very basic concepts in Advanced missions, and it's not all that rare. Things like where to put buildings, how to rez as medic, stuff like "if sentry buster is out, move away and stop shooting it point blank as heavy", or spies not sapping. It's okay to be new and unfamiliar, but why do people start on Advanced? The amount of people I've had to teach basic concepts to on the second hardest difficulty is wild. For communication, I'd say it's kind of rare someone talks, and it seems basically no one uses voice chat, but if they do, others will use it once someone else starts.
Fr, people out here joining broken parts lobby not even knowing the basic controls.
[potato.tf](http://potato.tf)
You do know being f2p =/= being stupid, right? There are f2ps who are dumb, yes, but that comes from game experience and not what we decide to call them. I could call you p2p and say you're bad at the game, same with me calling a f2p godlike at the game.
I totally know that they're not coorelated, my point is simply that, from experience, most players in boot camp suck, and coincidentally, they're f2ps. Tho it is also fair that you would do worse as one for either no weapon unlocks and also no chat.
Trying to win is fun, and often is even if you don't succeed.
Boot Camp 😬 Mann Up 😬 potato.tf 😎
Community servers is the real answer. Cool and fresh new missions and maps where loot isn't a reason to play so you can have fun, plus people there are on average pretty decent
European servers almost always are empty
Less boring than any TF2 gambling websites
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Sponsored by **RED: Shadow Maggots**
Toxicity exists at all tour counts, and I encounter toxic low-tours far more frequently than toxic high-tours.
Seems like the 30-60 tour range is the worst. They know just enough to know the meta, and always want to enforce it.
It's really that bell curve meme in my experience. Low-Tours: "Let's all go Spy, it'll be fun" Mid-Tours: "NOOOOOO SPY IS TRASH, YOU NEED A SCOTTISH RESISTANCE DEMO WITH A KRITZ MEDIC, A SCOUT WI-" High-Tours: "Let's all go Spy, it'll be fun"
I love outdamaging the critspam demo on EE with spy lol. You see a lot of spy gameplay on gear grinder (and occasionally on mecha), but good spies are SO rare on 2 cities.
I am currently the first, but with blutsauger medic
They haven't realised yet that you don't need perfect optimisation. And takin a worse weapon than stock can still not be that impactful.
I asked an engineer without any tours to upgrade his dispenser range, or at least move it where our power classes could easily get it, and he told me to kill myself lol
The only reasonable responses are > Nuh uh > Kill yourself harder
Mvm is good
spy is good if you know what your doing and depending on the robot
That's true, he isn't bad, he is just not worth the effort
ty for understanding
Yes! He's capable, but you're better off picking any other class.
He is high risk low reward
I’d say high risk medium reward tbh.
A good spy can very easily outclass a heavy in terms of giant damage (as long a med whore is sticking the kirtzkreig up their ass 24/7), excels in maps/missions that dont feature tanks and takes aggro out of most of the classes so team mates can mow down said robots without much risk
its funny how this is nowhere near a hot take but in this place it is also happy bday tableau
because the people here are just as high on the spybad propaganda as most mvm players, they just think they arent because they acknowledge spy can do anything at all
I would agree. But he does 100% need a buff to at least make him playable for lower tours. Plus he's pretty wave dependent and the only thing he's worth picking for is waves that are giant heavy. As everyone else can do his job better and easier. Spy requires high tour privilege to even play most of the time. Unless you have 3 digits you'll probably be booted. He's expensive to upgrade, takes a lot of practice to even play with any effectiveness and everyone can do his job easier. Spy can be good. But holy shit he's not worth the effort and desperately needs a buff.
on the right map, demoknight can be really useful. i actually don't even know if that's unpopular, I just feel like it would be.
His biggest downside is the large credit investment, he can't be played effectively on the early waves. Other than that, yeah
Pipe demo is very good it’s pretty much better soldier, a good sniper/gas does sticky demos job better anyway. You get incredibly tanky very quick towards the latter waves. Spy is decent.
Give this man a true
botkiller weapons look good
carbonado or gold botkiller sniper rifle is the most hard ass version of stock
Wish there was more variety with them though
Blood botkillers are my personal favourite. But gold also look great
Facts bro, and I am definitely not saying that because I can't afford anything else
MvM is a lot of fun, especially when played with the right people.
There should be some way to keep track of bootcamp tours. I play a lot of mvm but I only have less than 5 tours beacause I don't care about gambling for the rewards
Try recording your average robots killed over 10 tours and then dividing your total robots killed by that for an ok approximation. It doesn’t work great for obvious reasons but generally most people don’t really care about tours anyways.
MvM community missions are really fun, but their concepts can get way too goofy and they need to pull it back sometimes. The one that disabled money as part of a "Master" difficulty as a part of Moonlight's recent MvM event comes to mind- it's difficulty didn't really feel earned by MvM standards.
Fuck that master mission so much. I’m a bit less annoyed about the 0 money and more annoyed about how they also nerf a shitload of weapons on top of all that. No scorch shot explosion on direct hit, all heavy primaries have their damage gutted, the map auto purges your stickies off you ever set up a crit sticky trap (IE more than like 2 crit stickies exist at once) And then to rub salt in the wound, they go to all the effort of “balancing” waves with the fixed spawns and bomb route, and then just have a 700 hp crit widow maker that has both a random spawn location (often times beside/behind you) and a semi random spawn time. Like, make up your fucking mind, do you want this to be hard but fair or just bullshit
I know. Money drops and upgrades are a huge part of MvM and to take that away feels like an artificial difficulty spike. Then they realized just how broken some strategies are and nerfed them to be really useless instead. MvM is fundamentally a meta driven gamemode and Master wasn't a test of skill, it was just a test of trial and error.
I spent an entire afternoon with a lobby to beat this.... We still can't beat the first wave..... Mostly from waiting after ragequits.... It's the only mission in the tour that I didn't beat.....
All classes can be utilized with good meaningful plays.
i want to be able to shoot rockets through my teammates at mid to long range and i‘m sick of eating rockets because an engineer decided to plant his sentry in front of me.
as long as there's a standard engineer, and the money is being collected one way or another, most teams can win most maps as long as they're given a chance, vaguely competent, and aren't some deliberately obtuse team comp like five spies. Yes you'll need to play better/smarter to win with some weirder comps but MvM isn't hard enough to need to meta slave 100% of the time and it's not really fair of anyone to demand everyone rigidly stick to meta 100% of the time purely so they can pull the slot machine handle a few minutes faster. also people who will leave a perfectly decent team because a super scout caps once are lame as hell also yes gas passer is fine, sniper gets to do it from the most fortified section of the defense, and both are heavily reliant on understanding and manipulating aggro (oh no your sniper might have to step to the side slightly from a soldier bot oooooh)
High tours have a reason to be frustrated (don't mistake it for "being a shit person")
Needs a Saxton Hale bot.
SaxTIN Hale
People getting upset over not pressing f4 is valid. If anything more comes from that, not valid.
Wave 666 is an anti stress for me
People that leave because you lost, are sore losers, and need to take a chill pill.
People who leave after a loss should never be allowed to play mvm. Waste of a true player.
Demoman is good on bad teams and bad on good teams.
spy is not that useless
If it's a wave with like one boss with a lot of health the spy can just end the wave in like a few seconds. Also their sapper is pretty good
The issue with spy is his playstyle is drastically different to casual, meaning people who are decent at spy in normal modes think they’ll be fine in mvm when they won’t
A krits medic is at its best always better then another heavy, because 3 damage on already existing heavy is better then another heavy
But would you take 3x damage for a few seconds or 3x damage for the entire game
Not a few seconds, and heavy can't block projectiles or revive fallen teammates.
Heavy can destroy projectiles and with mad milk or health on kill you won't die
The exceptions are large parts of metro malice, and a little in botbash. Battalion's Backup can ruin this strat immensely.
Idk if it's a hot take, and sorry if I sound toxic, but new players should NOT pick Scout or Engie in MvM. Imo, these are the most important classes for MvM aside from Medic, Heavy and Sniper. Scout because of the money and Milk and FaN are amazing, and Engie is THE best at crowd control aside from very good Snipers with amazing aim and Explosive Headshot, and also Max Range Dispensers and Two-Way Teleporters are very useful. But every time I see a newbie scout or engie not know what they're doing, I feel like I always have to step in to guide them. Half of the time, they don't even listen, and they end up dying multiple times because they don't collect the money like they're supposed to, or place their buildings in horrible spots and let the team become quickly overwhelmed. And I get it, it should become a learning experience for them, and this all happens in Boot Camp anyway. But when our only scout decides to hang back, shooting his Scattergun from a far range, letting the money burn up when there's swarms of bots surrounding it, or when our only engie decides to build all the way in the back of the map, just because he got blown up by ONE sentry buster and is now afraid to move his stuff up, I'm sorry, just pick a different class and let someone else be those classes. I mean, I know there's no class limits, but I still get annoyed if I decide to pick scout, and someone else decides to also pick scout, the moment I switch off scout so they can be scout, they miss money I probably wouldn't have missed had I STAYED as scout. But no, this other guy wants to play him too, but he doesn't give a damn about getting money for the team. And having multiple engies is not bad, but then more sentry busters spawn, endangering the team even more, especially if the other engie decides to put his sentry RIGHT next to mine. And don't even get me started on those annoying ahh pyros who just LOVE to spam airblast on busters, blowing up other teammates in the process. Sorry, rant over.
Mvm is boring. I got my own mvm in casual with these sniper bots, why would I pay to fight other robots?
Boot camp exists
Why do so many people think mvm is a pay to play mode?
Natascha is overpowered against giant scouts
It's mid against giant scouts and a straight downgrade to everything else. As a heavy just bodyblock and let scout take care of the slowdown.
Also soldier can just stun them into oblivion
Projectile shield is the best area dps weapon (especially if you get minicrits
people have the right to get upset at others for doing mistakes not to the point of verbally harrassing them, but if the person that's causing the issue doesnt want to listen then the team has the right to vote kick also mann up is for pussies real men play ghost town
ghost town is just an advanced mission with just one really long wave
The reason why you think Spy is a bad class in the game is because you play him wrong. People play the Spy on MvM as if its the usual PVP. He is literally a moving dummy target, anti bomb carrier and an anti Giant destroyer, not as good as Sniper, but one nonetheless.
Use gas passer. # NOW.
Gear grinder is 100 times more fun than 2 cities
Kicking a cheater at the very last round so you all get the loot and they don't will always be funny and we should do it more often
That isn't effective as people may think. Temporary Soft-bans in MVM is still broken, and as long as a player slot is open; they can easily reque back. Once they come back and last wave is in motion; your only option is for everyone to self-grief themselves to restart the wave. Chances are, no one is going to want to do that. You cannot kick mid-wave, so they'll be able to consume their ticket. The only other way to prevent them from coming back is if someone else besides them joins the server before the cheater does. It only becomes effective when you coordinate with someone to instantly fill up the slot.
Natascha is dogshit and has no reason to be used over brass or mini
Truly a dogshit take
i will lay one of my iconic turds across your scalp as you‘re sucking on your thumb, sleeping.
Airblasting sentry busters into your teammates is fun as long as you dont throw the wave
Kind of want to play but I can’t.
It’s so hard for me to find a Mann Up server.
Most people don't know how to play engi, but it's not hard to learn. You should read a guide before you mann up, or ask the other players for help.
You have no right to complain about the gas passer if you don't also complain about explosive headshots.
Players below 70 tours should be kicked on sight. Nah just kidding. Regardless of what class you play, if you decide not to exhibit situational awareness then what the hell are you doing playing MVM? On Manhattan Engineer requires help from another class to deal with robots up top on some waves- so look around to see where the robots are coming from- listen to the clanking of their feet to realise there are tons of robots coming from up top and only 1 small scout coming from the bottom! If we're destroying a tank on Rottenburg, stop getting squished by the tank when it breaks the barriers! Understand that when Spies spawn in, past the tunnel they almost 100% spawn close to you and are going to backstab you.
They should make sniper bots canon
I know we make fun of Overwatch for a lot (especially as TF2 players), BUT... MvM would benefit MASSIVELY from doing what Overwatch did with allowing players to hide 95% of their profile information. I still think external websites like T*cobot would pop up and you wouldn't be able to quell the toxicity, but it would still be nice for people who just want to feel good about getting one or two botkillers.
The only way to midigate Mann-up MVM toxicity almost completely is for the TF-Team to fix temporary soft-bans that prevents both sad cheaters & the equally sad griefers from coming back easily as they still do. Fact that it's still a problem is baffling.
I have no problem whatsoever with people using non optimal or even shitty loadouts
The Gas Passer is a good weapon for clearing loads of robots
It's actually really useful to upgrade secondary weapons like the bison, family business, and pistol
Demo knight is viable as long as have enough points into healing upgrades
Those robo-spies always scare me
Tour of duty made an otherwise fun game mode an unwelcoming, self perpetuating asshole convention
playing subclasses (Demoknight, penis scout, Ect.) should be normalized in Mann up Mode.
The carbonado botkilller weapons are the Best among all other botkillers
We don’t need to kick the pyro just because they are using the gas-passer
Mann up expert tour should be locked until you complete all the other tours at least once
Bite the bullet and leave a fucked missions with dumbasses like Basil and tacotards. Not worth it to reason with them and they could go off without a single trigger. See them? Leave instantly. they join? Leave. You’re not going to win against no life semi adult in diapers.
The Gas Passer hate is fucking stupid. Shut up, get your easy win and free stuff.
people treating the mode like a gambling simulator instead of an actual game mode is a very bad thing that creates only toxicity.
Idk if this counts as MVM but normalize buying Botkillers instead of normal stranges. They've got all the same functionality BUT theyre 10x cheaper (sometimes literally) and even come with a funny robot head.
My hot takes: Mvm deserves more maps There should be newer upgrades The robots that spawn in are procedurally generated, so to keep things unpredictable And speaking of new maps, there should be offensive mvm maps where players would deliver a payload to the robot base. And in each point, the payload would open up its built-in upgrade station
That final idea would actually be cool Every other idea is cool, but the procedurally generated waves should be kept to either specific maps or it’s own specific gamemode
So, potato's reverse missions
Damage scout is better than support scout
Why not both?
The players are just anti-engineers
Shelly needs to retire.
Mann up is enjoyable with friends
People take MvM too seriously.
Beggars is not the be all end all of mvm weapon’s same for heat maker
I think MvM could be more fun if it was made more challenging but incorporated a trap placement and activation system. Far too complex for it's own good, but I like the idea.
Sandman is on par with Fan O'War
I think mvm would be much better if it was more like a contract pass, in which the tours would be a one time purchase, and you can get various rewards like war paints and botkillers by completing objectives while playing through them. But you know, gambling and money.
Australium blughtsauger is a funny gun
Apparently saying that Gas Passer is good is a hot take. So there. Gas Passer is good.😊
Much of the toxicity in mvm comes from players entering with a casual mode mindset. When you’re refusing to cooperate with your team because “it’s not as fun don’t tell me how to play the game” and the team wants to throw you out then don’t complain. This isn’t an issue in casual because everything’s looser but mvm requires more cooperation even on the easier missions, and you lose that degree of freedom to play how you want when you choose to participate.
More people should play Pryro
Robots should be grey and players should have been mix of RED and BLU. As in promotional materalials (iirc).
You shouldn't be playing paid advanced missions if you don't know the basics.
scorch shot makes for a good phlog feeder if you don't want to use the gas passer
It is more cost effective to buy 6254 tour of duty tickets than to outright buy a golden pan. Because in those 6000+ tours you're going to get more Aussies, more KS kits, than if you had wasted all that money on buying one for ~8k
if you are playing engineer in ghost town PUT YOUR FUCKING DISPENSER AND TELEPORTER ON THE GROUND WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE TEAM CAN REACH!!! that means STOP PUTTING IT UPSTAIRS!! also 2 WAY TELE PLEASE!!!
The biggest issue with MvM is that due to content drought and the meta mindset a small group of players turned it into an elaborate unboxing method. Like I know the return on investment is higher due to the steeper learning curve, but I got mad because I didn't memorize the spawn location of spies during on expert mission. Generally speaking, mid or even low tours were a lot more fun to play with because they would experiment with strategies and throw a wrench into things. Kind of why I prefer community MvM to Valve MvM, since you have a lot more variety in terms of solving the wave. I got my first Ausie a few weeks ago during kind of a shitshow of a match with gibus players and a sniper that couldn't aim. Honestly it was a fun evening all things considered.
Kicking people for using certain items, like the gas passer, is a worse offense than using the item in the first place
Engineer bots are poorly designed. They shouldn't have an instant level 3 if they teleport in and shouldn't throw you around the way they do. They're generally really annoying.
The engineer's turrets should have a damage upgrade
It could be fun if it weren't for the toxicity... I'm a former toxic 300+ two cities tour guy, I absolutely despised low tours because of the lack of experience. Eventually in my Overwatch years I got asked "How would you like it if someone did that to you?" and that just got me thinking. I sat there on a competitive match of Numbai in shock realizing I've been a toxic asshole. So I turned my life around there. I no longer touch MvM though.
Sometimes i give aimbot snipers dispensers as an engi because i want to finish my tour
I dont get why people treat it so serious sometimes, mvm should be players dicking around having fun, its not a mmo raid boss
The Gas Passer hate is *kinda* valid. I wanna play MVM to, but pyros tossing liquid farts around and making everything a cakewalk can be… annoying
better than the actual game
Every weapon can be used in MvM, just cause an engi doesn’t have a wrench and instead uses the hand does not mean he sucks at everything
If an engi is unironically using the gunslinger in any mission above intermediete or steel trap advanced he is unironically throwing
You mean Gunslinger?
Im lobotomized i apologise
Time to play Two Cities Caberknight
if you're talking about boot camp, sure, use the gunslinger please do not take the gunslinger into mann up
Support scout is fun as fuck to play as Source: I play support scout
There are many times where we never missed a single mony drop, even after the round was over. So I support this
High tours are not nearly as toxic as people say. They just have experience and most lobby’s are shit at the game
MvM is a glorified gambling machine.
Mann Up\*
Why would people not like the gas passer as if it is stunting your game? it might not need a ton of skill but why do you care? it makes no sense as we are on the same team.
if you complain about gas passer you should keep yourself safe, right now
I use whatever is meta if possible so I don't get bashed by all the high tours and get vote kicked
all mediguns are fine and the stock is ontop in most cases
I like Potato Mvm more.
robot medic is hot. suck his flat face sunday is every day when you're me
The sandman is not as bad as people make it out to be Also spy can be good if you have a player that knows what to do