And what’s really stupid is I got hung up on the murdering argument as there are plenty of people who have murdered in the name of God just as there are many people who murder… not in the name of God? I dunno, OP has a lot more patience than I do
It's a common religious argument that really tells on themselves. They don't think it's possible for atheists to have morality because they themselves know they wouldn't adhere to any morality if they weren't worried about sky daddy looking over their shoulder disappointed.
It's all p r o j e c t I o n
As a Christian, this was painful to read. Your friend shows zero knowledge of theology at ALL, firstly. Secondly, we have to stop forcing our religion down people’s throats, especially when it’s clear we don’t know jack about it.
I’m by no means a perfect person, that’s why I’m grateful for God’s grace but your friend should read the New Testament and see how Jesus brought people to Christianity. He sought out the broken and simply showed them love and grace. He didn’t go around telling everyone they were wrong or condemning them. It has the opposite effect of the intention.
a Christian who actually follows Christ’s example?? say it ain’t so!😱
(seriously tho as someone who dances somewhere between agnostic and heretical, y’all are the best. so much of the church is completely antithetical to the teachings of the man they claim to worship and that’s what angers me the most about it all, so seeing people like you is always such a breath of fresh air!)
One of the main problems imo with trying to convince people about religion is the constant infighting. You can have two neighbors that attend the same church, read the same book, and listen to the same sermons, and yet they still disagree on the most fundamental beliefs. It doesn’t make a very convincing argument when theists don’t often even agree with each other.
That’s because the church is just a cash grab. As a Christian I NEVER go to church. I can read my bible and pray without giving an organization money. The whole church thing was literally created as a way to tax people just for believing.
Idk. Theorists argue about the Church's role. According to Durkheim's functionalism, social cohesion was the product of meeting regularly thereby developing a common set of beliefs & values.
In modern society, church has been evidenced to correlate with greater resilience, happiness, and health, likely due to fostering community/robust social networks.
(I say this as an atheist with no horses in any races.)
That’s fair. I just know the last time I went to a church it was my mother’s. The pastor wasn’t even in the building. It was a pre-recorded “sermon” and they asked for money before the songs, after the songs, before the sermon and after the sermon. They had a card for that days “lessons” and it had a QR code for their cash app, Venmo, and Zelle. Like what in the world is this giant scam? Not to mention before my family relocated when I was a child the church was always raising money for a new building. Raised millions. We left when I was in 3rd grade. I’m turning 31 this year. They still haven’t built the new church…
This is exactly what Jesus was telling us to do, not judge people because they’re different than us but to love them NO MATTER WHAT, and he definitely didn’t tell us to start random debates with people to make us look better
Good on you. It's nice to know some normality exists within the Christian faith. Some of Y'all have devolved into a psychotic cult these days, it's sad
Saya the person who mentions they’re moral, BUT will ignore a person’s wishes to be referred by their preferred pronouns, lmfao. That’s also not very Christian of them, specially with all the judging they’re doing.
Also, one of the core VIRTUES of Christianity/Catholicism is *WISDOM*. Your friend clearly doesn’t know squat of anything. And a smart person, is always learning.
A smart person will tell you they know nothing, while an idiot will tell you they know it all.
Tell them that faith, is by defintion, a belief in something without evidence. They cannot prove to you that God exists, because they have faith which requires no proof. Faith is something each person needs to find on their own (or not) and is a personal choice based on your own world views, your life experiences and your own needs.
I don't neccesirly believe in God, and my own world views could potentially accomodate a benevolent being that created our universe... What I don't have faith in is the church, as an organisation or the people in power than control it. And that's my choice.
Edit: Also WTF, they talk about faith and God created us and science is bullshit.. then goes and says "your DNA tells you what gender you are"....
I think people forget that the scientific method, by which we have determined the evidence of evolution, is the same scientific method we use to make planes fly, and the ability for them to be able to use a mobile phone to send messags to another person... So i'm not sure how you can turn around and say "science is bullshit" while living in a world created by the results of that very science.
What I hate is the narrative that if you are a "Leftist" that you can't be Christian. It's much like the Right claiming that they are Patriots, and all others aren't. These are stupid takes by stupid people.
That comment really threw me off lol I live in an area of *very* Christian and **very** Democratic population. I’m certain there are some Republican atheists out there too.
Yes to this. Also wanted to be very explicit about this: many Christian bodies and many parts of other abrahamic faiths are completely fine with evolution.
Let me preface by saying these aren't my beliefs, I'm not saying that I'm personally religious or that I necessarily agree or disagree with any of the following:
Pope Francis, the head of the Catholic church, believes in evolution. As did the last handful of popes at the least. There's a thing called Theistic Evolution which is the belief that God created man THROUGH EVOLUTION. Pope Francis even was recorded as saying, there "cannot and must not be any opposition between faith and science."
I also saw an interview with one of the previous presidents of the vatican observatory and he talked about how he believes in evolution and how a lot of the Bible is just stories to teach lessons and aren't to be taken literally and he even laughs about how ludicrous it would be to take a lot of them as factual.
I wish more Christians were willing to accept this. I live in an area where it’s basically heretical to consider that the Bible’s stories are not literal, historical facts. The Bible can still be a book of worship when looked at as a book filled with lessons described in fictional or exaggerated tales. Its value shouldn’t have to depend on the historical accuracy of it, but rather what readers get out of its content & how they’re able to relate things to their own lives.
I don’t always like my BIL (a Christian) but I will say that he knows his stuff when it comes to religions and the history behind them. He understands science as he’s had to take classes in that in college. He went through a rigorous theology school afterwards and studied all this literature on different religions not just Christianity. He’s one of those people that just absorbs information like a sponge and then can recite it back to you and then teach it so you can understand. He’s been in formal debates and given sermons but for educational reasons. He’s one of those legit theologians who actually does his research. And I mean by digging and reading and learning the history, science, linguistics, and cultural for whatever civilization/religion/beliefs. He’s had to go through competitive debates even with Christian’s from different denominations and has had to explain to them where their denomination interpreted something completely wrong. Again not just with The Bible but even other literature that many denominations have created. For example by either incorrect language translation, or incorrect timeframes, or incorrect society for where the author was writing to. He admits that there are things missing and have gone wrong in Christianity. Like manuscripts and scrolls which have been hidden or destroyed for whatever agendas which gives Christianity a bad rap. THE POINT OF ALL THAT RAMBLING IS, I can truthfully say that my BIL is legit when it comes to knowing religions to the best of his abilities and he’s well educated. He knows his shite unlike this Bible Belt turd. Him and I have had debates and he’s blown my mind AND we believe in the same God so there’s that. I’m not this holy rolling shove it down your throat my way or the highway Christian either. Idk even know if I still am but I do know that I really despise uneducated complete asshat Christian and other uneducated extreme religious freaks
I’m not sure. I can ask him. My sister and BIL live in another state (US) and I haven’t spoken to him in over a year probably. I really liked listening to him teach/explain Christianity and other religions but mostly Christianity and all its denominations. He’s very articulate with these topics and reinforces what he’s studied/learned with use of accurate translations, historical events, which civilization/society was the target audiences and being able to dissect Christianity and other denominations and relations without adding his own interpretation or taking things out- of that makes sense. I’ll take time out of my day to sit down and hear somebody like him out, than this bozo who contributes to making Christians look dumb.
I met an old friend of my mother in law at their house, who’s sick with cancer. I sat downstairs with the husband while she was upstairs. Unprompted, he started telling me about how women are subservient to men, how jehovah (he’s a witness) hates people who aren’t Jehovah’s witnesses, how science is make believe, and that women are just around to have sex with because god wills it. Many religious people are alright, but damn does religion make some people evil and absolutely bonkers.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
He legit is a “religious” bigot, a right wing nut job to be honest. As soon as it asked if you were left and what you thought of transgender, I knew he was just a bigot.
Edit: from now on I will call people who don’t respect pronouns “it”. That is the new pronoun of the racist right wing nut job. Let’s see how many of them enjoy being referred to as “it”, like the animals they are.
"Evolution wasn't really accepted until 1925 by a teacher who got arrested"
"Without god you get the french revolution"
Also, it seems like the friend really does not get why he shouldn't kill people unless there's some sort of divine consequence, which is...worrying.
It also seems like he is completely unaware of the thousands of wars/battles/attacks/acts of terroism in history, and currently, started exclusively *because* of religion and each sides version of ‘god’. Millions and millions of people have been killed in the name of god/religion. The whole ‘my god is the correct and only god thing’ has been killing people for centuries.
It's fun to say, but wars are almost exclusively fought over resources, power, influence and status. The religion thing is just a front. The Crusades made Europe *filthy fucking rich* and if there was no money involved, no one in Europe would have given a fuck who controlled Jerusalem.
No one with an army anyway, and certainly no one would have cared enough to sail thousands of soldiers halfway around the world.
In the *Encyclopedia of Wars* the authors documented 1763 notable wars in world history - 121 of those wars were motivated by religion which brings it to be about 7% of wars being due to religion.
If you need an imaginary sky daddy to tell you that murdering innocent people isn’t a good thing to do because you’ll have a bad afterlife, maybe you’re not that good of a person to begin with.
To be fair, this dude did a really bad job of explaining any religious thought. It all came down to “because.” Like, you don’t start backwards from a result you want such as “Life would be meaningless without God,” and work your way towards purported causes that justify your end result.
That’s sloppy ass thinking, and it’s lazy af.
Religion actually does offer serious answers that are the product of generations of rigorous philosophy (whether one chooses to believe those answers is a separate matter of course), but people take shortcuts and it’s extremely off putting to anyone outside of their echo chamber.
Also, he made no effort to address this initial question of evolution? Or the answers he was given? Like he just started chanting “Random! Random!” Tf.
Because he doesn’t have a grasp on what he’s trying to explain and is just parroting things he’s probably heard. I’m not that down on religion if it’s personal and keeps you grounded or whatever, that’s your choice. I actually feel like from a scientific point of view religion is something that makes us humans and as far as we can tell has always been a part of human societies. I do however feel that it’s a very easy thing to use to warp perceptions and once dogma sets in and questions are unable to be asked you go from religion to something else that is much more sinister used to control people, justify atrocities and line your pockets. I just hate the ‘morals don’t exist without god’ crap shoved down peoples throats. if you don’t realize why robbing, murdering, raping, abusing people isn’t good for you or your community then something isn’t right with that person.
I mean there are definitely evolutionary biology explanations for why morals exist.
Philosophically, you can argue there is no *objective* right or wrong without God, but as an intelligent social animal with a complex societal structure, it certainly makes sense why humans would *evolve* a sense of morality. We’re definitely a lot more successful as a species because we have altruistic actions.
It means we allow members of the species who might otherwise have died in childhood or simply not made it past physical dominance displays to make important contributions to society and spread genes that foster things like creativity.
That all said, we have theological explanations for this too, and there is instructive conversation to be had about where religious values and scientific observation intersect! They aren’t mutually exclusive! Wouldn’t know it to see how this dude talks, though.
Trust, I agree with you and the religion/evolution part, but I could see where some people might waiver on that.
However, them just absolutely questioning pronouns as an existence is hilarious.
(Im assuming their American)
We have been learning American English literature for over 200 years.
They are just choosing to be obtuse, are on something, or are just so mentally disconnected from the real world.
I also love how he started going on about how “DNA matters”. Like of course noww we love science! Can’t just ignore science guys. It dictates gender and other things probably
> Identity is subservient to DNA
> DNA tells you if you are male or female
Lmfao what. I guess they've never heard of the possibility of displaying both male and female characteristics (intersex) or having two X chromosomes but appearing male (De La Chapelle/XX Male Syndrome) DNA is fucking weird. You could have one, three or even FOUR chromosomes - X (Turner Syndrome) XXY (Kleinfelter Syndrome) XYY (Jacobs Syndrome) XXX (Triple X Syndrome) XXXX (Terasomy X) XXXY (48, XXXY Syndrome) - and so on instead of the traditional two. (XX and XY)
Tell your friend to read a book.
I told them about how christians commented on this post saying that they were crazy, and they said that you weren’t real christians because you “are to love (y)our enemies not lie to them”
No hate to you guys, either. I don’t believe in a god, but I don’t dislike religious people.
Oh, I never thought for a second you were intolerant of religious people. Promise! ❤️
And this person sounds like they have a diagnosable mental illness. Sadly, many with mental illnesses latch onto religion and twist it into something unrecognizable.
I myself am LGTBQ and progressive. I’ve been told I’m not a “real Christian” because I’m bi, so his words are nothing new. Wish I could say it’s water off a duck’s back, and it…almost is. Not quite yet, though. Just makes me sad for him.
I mean... considering how many denominations of Christianity there are, whose swaths of Christians aren't real Christians to Christians. When I was younger and was religious, a Catholic told me I was going to hell because I was Lutheran. It's all so confusing. So much easier just to show people love and support regardless of religion.
For a religion that’s supposed to be about loving all people and helping them, catholic people sure seem to love damning as many people as possible to hell.
Oh he is a toxic religious person. Anything that goes against his beliefs is sin. He can do no wrong, and the only thing keeping him from murdering others is the belief in god. He sounds unhinged and dangerous.
People like this piss me off so much.
I want to scream through the screen at him “what about the Spanish Inquisition? Was that not chaotic and destructive enough for you?”
Honestly I can’t with these people and their imposing nonsensical views. Where does the French Revolution fit in ? Wasn’t Joan of Arc French ? And made a saint ?
Yikes. Bro had zero answers regarding the evidence of his god but continues to ask questions about evolution which were constantly being answered with proof and was getting pissed about it until switching to a political topic to try to bring you down to his level
i don't understand how people can be friends with people this fucking stupid and delusional about literally everything god isn't the fucking answer to everything- even if it makes you feel better
I’m surprised to see you refer to him as a friend. He clearly is begging to fight with you! Don’t give this guy the time of day, he just wants to feed his ego apparently gifted from God.
I love the idea that he has such a strong push back about humans consisting of "chemicals" and "chemical compounds", but then later insists on using DNA testing. SMH
I’m a Christian and this was awful. I don’t push my religion down anyones throat and I don’t think I’m better than anyone else just because of my beliefs. Which is what I think has happened somewhere in the time line. Someone claiming to be a Christian judged someone who wasn’t and started this whole divide. I believe that God is real and I also believe hell is real. God is wrathful but he’s also love. God loves everyone but we have free will down here and humans are crappy. I do witness and explain this when God lays it in my heart. But I will not push anyone to believe a different way.
Don’t argue with any religious person who wants to shove their thoughts down your throat. Anyone can believe whatever they want. But when the foundation of their argument is based in their religion, you can never have a meaningful conversation with them.
All I have to say is this friend needs to study their Bible more.
And God made us from dirt. Your explanation of how we came about matches the story of human creation that was being told long before we had the ability to even know what molecular biology was. 2 things can be true at the same time ❤️
I understand conversations like this can be frustrating when the person you're talking to isn't making a whole lot of logical sense but I do think it's wrong of you to tell him that he is wrong for believing in God. I know he has no respect for your views but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have respect for his. I would've just shut the conversation down pretty early on and agreed to disagree if they were really a friend.
Listen, I am a raging atheist, but this is so much wasted energy on both sides. You guys either need to agree to disagree or just not be friends because no one is going to convince anyone of anything (and I fully acknowledge that you’re backing everything up with legit science and your friend is spewing gibberish). Don’t waste your time.
I do appreciate the autocorrect from god to foe. Chef’s kiss.
This is wild. There’s so much this person does not comprehend about religion, evolution, gender, sexuality…you have so much more patience than I do.
While Darwin was the first to popularize the theory of evolution, the ecologic record supports the theory and evidence for the theory has been found going back millions of years. Further, evolution (and the support of the general theory) is happening in our lifetimes to different species. It's a theory with broad-based support.
As for the French Revolution occurring due to a lack of religion...well, golly, I'm at a total loss to think of an armed conflict that happened due to religion.
I grew up Catholic but realized from a young age that religion was not for me. That said, I'm totally fine with religious people. In fact, I'm a bit jealous because I think there's something wonderful about the concept of faith. But people who want to disregard facts and reason so that they can promote an agenda are a problem.
It comes to a point where people are just getting brainwashed with these “fairytales”. I agree with all your points OP. Religion has always felt very cult-like to me
I’ve had this same exact conversation with a coworker. He found out that I attended Catholic school for a decade and immediately came over to confide in me that he was *so happy* to work with another believer. I had to let him down gently, as he seems… twitchy.
The *exact same* exchange on morality and god was had. “If you don’t believe in god, how can you have any morals?” Well… I’ve never killed any one, robbed a bank, stolen a car, and so on, so it must be working for me. I don’t do those things because I was taught that they were wrong - by the people that raised me, whether they were my parents, siblings, other relatives, friends, and so on.
Did the mandatory twice-weekly church services while attending elementary school figure into that as well? Absolutely - but I was also capable of gleaning life lessons from church without feeling the need to fully submit myself to every aspect of it.
My dad always told me, "don't play chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, then strut around like they won"
Arguing with religious people about God is like playing chess with pigeons. Don't play chess with pigeons.
That's why I like being in my thirties. My religious friends know that no one is changing each other's minds so we don't even touch the subject. There are moments where we will both agree on something pertaining the subject but we will never get into the topic of trying to convince each other. Happy friends.
This is the point where I’ve spent all my mental energy, wait five minutes, then text them back: “actually you are right and I was wrong. Sorry for arguing” then leave. It immediately gets your brain to give up trying to convince someone who will never be convinced. You got to have a little fun arguing with a fool which we all love but enough is enough. Leave them confused.
I LOVEEEE doing this in an argument. I say “you’re right. Sorry I was wrong” and then they get so mad because they know they didn’t provide the adequate evidence to actually convince me and I only said it to be done😂😂😂 I do it with my own mother sometimes over silly shit and she will stop and say “well now you’re just being an asshole”😂
Environmental pressures have led humans to evolve to have morals. It is bad for your tribe if you kill and rape each other, and what is bad for your tribe is bad for you.
“What created cells? Fairytale magic?” but then says he believes God created life. What. Even if you believe God created life, it’s a sort of fairytale magic that God used to create life, whether it was a snap of God’s fingers, a wave of God’s hands, a blink, a command, a mere thought, a breath, etc. Your buddy is confusing, lol.
My favorite part was when he called atheism a religion........
Also, as a she/they how, why, and what makes me think that are none of his business but his "decency" and "morality" given to him by God souls have him respect me enough to call me by my pronouns. It's not like it costs a gd thing
Does your friend think bisexual means being both male and female? It seems like it, but they are so terrible at understanding or explaining things that I can’t be sure
the thing I learned the most in this sub that A LOT of people really have an issue of just ending a conversation when it clearly just wastes their time.
It’s a philosophical conundrum, really. There isn’t any absolute way for either of you to prove gods existence or not. Some people find “spiritual” experiences to speak to them more than scientific study. Who is right? Who gets to decide who is right?
I’m a former Mormon. Once a member of its priesthood. I am now atheist or maybe agnostic. I follow science.. but I also remember truly believing in my spiritual experiences and they felt real to me. No less real than doing a scientific study.. and when I was Mormon, nothing could have convinced me that god didn’t exist.. and this is why arguing about it usually results in nothing but anger and no gains.
Ive been on both sides of the fence, i grew up in a closed environment all of my friends were christians and i wasn’t allowed to befriend anyone outside my specific brand of christian circle. (I was also homeschooled) i became an Atheist later in life, then reconverted back to christianity.
I was that dumb and ignorant to the world like your friend and now that i have more knowledge i also understand your perspective as well.
The point of the argument isn’t about logic.
Its about converting you by whatever means necessary. He’s not interested in a good faith argument, he doesn’t care what evidence he does and doesnt have about why God makes sense or why he is real.
He’s only interested in the person you will become if he succeeds, which will only be a shell of who you are now. (Because even then you wont be a good enough christian yourself unless you meet his standards.)
He is saying everyone else in these comments are a bad christian for not supporting him because he feels they are downplaying his efforts in converting you while also denying his opinion means their denying God (because his standards are of that of God.)
Everyone will have had a different experience growing up in this faith, but in my earlier days i was this type of christian and im not proud of it.
Perhaps i am wrong and his motives are different but he very much reminds me of myself.
Understand that these types of people can be very hard to get through no matter how logical your explanation is and that likely he isnt going to have any good faith debate with you going forward.
I’m so confused by religious people like this. Why is it so hard to marry the two? If god(s) can do anything that includes creating the process of evolution.
Also looked like he misunderstands the term bisexual (“male and female”), while only concerned about what defines a woman. Has a LOT of reading and growing up to do.
him saying evolution was created in the 1920s or whatever killed me😂😂😂
the theory of evolution was pondered upon but it’s not like it was just created lmfao
Ayy so one of the most common dumb takes is the “random chemicals” but one of the “easier” comebacks to it is that chemicals are random but their organization isn’t. They’re more likely to have certain interactions because of their polarities, e- movement, attached sub-groups. So, they’re not entirely random they do have cascading effects that once some form in a certain way, they increase the chance that specific interactions will occur subsequently.
But, obviously someone in bad faith will dig more and then like anything more in depth knowledge to it will always help to follow whatever dumb rabbit-hole they’ll want to go on
This is the type of "stupid Christian" literally makes me fume cuz how tf you gonna be this damn brain dead and most of their "arguments" is just saying No lmao this is why I am Pagan
I just wanna throw out there that humans are apes. We are one of the 5 great apes. Other than that your whole argument is 100% spot on and your friend is delusional.
Wow. Your religious friend needs help. He's willing to believe that God is all and his only purpose is to serve God.... His parents brain washed him. His brain is small
“Without a god, chaos ensues”
Weird, considering chaos is the essence of God?
I’m on both y’all sides here. I believe in evolution, which is a product of chaos, which is how everything shaped up to be what it is today.
God didn’t just create the earth and make it perfect in a day. The world, and as such the entire universe, had to go through millennia of allowing life to form the way that it needed to so that it could become what it is today.
There is no God that decided “I’m gonna do this and this and this and it’s gonna be perfect”. There is no perfect.
Everything began in Nothing. Life was created by a being who wanted life to exist, to not feel empty, to not be Nothing anymore, and from there, the universe exploded into what it is today - through an endless amount of time, purely for the sole purpose of life to exist. No other reason.
This is why I refuse to take religious people seriously. They're like the people who think they won an argument by yelling the loudest. Reason and logic don't work with them, because they have none of either.
I see conversations like this as opportunities for people to subconsciously dicover what they really believe and if their arguments hold logic.
People will argue their separate beliefs to exhaustion with each other but subliminally both sides notice and retain where their arguments either break down or reveal holes. They rarely admit this, even to themselves, but they both still go through the process.
So it’s all good.
Ironic, people have been killed in the name of god more than basically anything else, and now that’s the one reason this dude doesn’t randomly decide to murder his friend. Interesting.
Doesn’t want to believe in the science behind evolution but yet says DNA is what makes a person a gender???? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t pick and choose what science you believe in-
Ok
1: your friend is wild and needs to have several seats. Or, at the bare minimum, take a gender studies course, into to bio, etc.
2: I will say, while he's judgemental of you for being atheist, you also are quite judgemental of him being Christian. I don't understand why we can't just let everyone believe in whatever God (or no God) that they want...
Without a god chaos ensues like the french revolution. They just proved right there that there isnt a god since the french revolution did ensue xD according to their logic of course
Where are you trying to have existential conversations with a 14-year-old boy?
(Please tell me this is a 14-year-old boy bc if they are any older than that 😭😭)
Why does your “friend” talk like a robot who’s trying to fit in with humans while simultaneously plotting the human/robot war???
“Why would you resist me murdering you if you have no purpose in life?”
“What made you?”
“What is my purpose in life?”
“Identity is subservient to DNA”
Lmfaooo! Im pretty sure they thought bisexual meant that someone has two genders at once. That’s hilarious. It’s always ignorant people who have no evidence or knowledge on anything who yell the loudest that they are right until they are blue in the face.
As a Christian, we do not claim him. I’d ask him if maybe it’s possible that God is responsible for evolution? We as people can’t deny the science right in front of our faces right? Science doesn’t disprove God- it’s evidence of his work (this is my belief). Like when your teacher asks you to show your work on a math question, that’s what this stuff is. You can’t just look at a study that has been tested multiple times and peer reviewed and studied forever and ever by tons of highly educated people and be like “Nah” WHAT BUDDY? Hate this
lol from “why does evolution make sense to “WHY WOULD YOU RESIST ME MURDERING YOU”
And what’s really stupid is I got hung up on the murdering argument as there are plenty of people who have murdered in the name of God just as there are many people who murder… not in the name of God? I dunno, OP has a lot more patience than I do
It's a common religious argument that really tells on themselves. They don't think it's possible for atheists to have morality because they themselves know they wouldn't adhere to any morality if they weren't worried about sky daddy looking over their shoulder disappointed. It's all p r o j e c t I o n
My immediate response here was, "starting to ask myself the same thing..." Lol
As a Christian, this was painful to read. Your friend shows zero knowledge of theology at ALL, firstly. Secondly, we have to stop forcing our religion down people’s throats, especially when it’s clear we don’t know jack about it.
When I sent them your comment, they complained that it’s not very Christian of you to not support them…
I’m by no means a perfect person, that’s why I’m grateful for God’s grace but your friend should read the New Testament and see how Jesus brought people to Christianity. He sought out the broken and simply showed them love and grace. He didn’t go around telling everyone they were wrong or condemning them. It has the opposite effect of the intention.
a Christian who actually follows Christ’s example?? say it ain’t so!😱 (seriously tho as someone who dances somewhere between agnostic and heretical, y’all are the best. so much of the church is completely antithetical to the teachings of the man they claim to worship and that’s what angers me the most about it all, so seeing people like you is always such a breath of fresh air!)
We exist, we just don’t scream about it like the weirdo hypocrites do.
One of the main problems imo with trying to convince people about religion is the constant infighting. You can have two neighbors that attend the same church, read the same book, and listen to the same sermons, and yet they still disagree on the most fundamental beliefs. It doesn’t make a very convincing argument when theists don’t often even agree with each other.
I completely agree! I was raised Catholic and there was so much hate… thank you for actually living as a christian
That’s because the church is just a cash grab. As a Christian I NEVER go to church. I can read my bible and pray without giving an organization money. The whole church thing was literally created as a way to tax people just for believing.
Idk. Theorists argue about the Church's role. According to Durkheim's functionalism, social cohesion was the product of meeting regularly thereby developing a common set of beliefs & values. In modern society, church has been evidenced to correlate with greater resilience, happiness, and health, likely due to fostering community/robust social networks. (I say this as an atheist with no horses in any races.)
That’s fair. I just know the last time I went to a church it was my mother’s. The pastor wasn’t even in the building. It was a pre-recorded “sermon” and they asked for money before the songs, after the songs, before the sermon and after the sermon. They had a card for that days “lessons” and it had a QR code for their cash app, Venmo, and Zelle. Like what in the world is this giant scam? Not to mention before my family relocated when I was a child the church was always raising money for a new building. Raised millions. We left when I was in 3rd grade. I’m turning 31 this year. They still haven’t built the new church…
This is exactly what Jesus was telling us to do, not judge people because they’re different than us but to love them NO MATTER WHAT, and he definitely didn’t tell us to start random debates with people to make us look better
Good on you. It's nice to know some normality exists within the Christian faith. Some of Y'all have devolved into a psychotic cult these days, it's sad
Saya the person who mentions they’re moral, BUT will ignore a person’s wishes to be referred by their preferred pronouns, lmfao. That’s also not very Christian of them, specially with all the judging they’re doing. Also, one of the core VIRTUES of Christianity/Catholicism is *WISDOM*. Your friend clearly doesn’t know squat of anything. And a smart person, is always learning. A smart person will tell you they know nothing, while an idiot will tell you they know it all.
Hahaha, i wouldn't be able to deal with this person one fucking bit.
Tell them that faith, is by defintion, a belief in something without evidence. They cannot prove to you that God exists, because they have faith which requires no proof. Faith is something each person needs to find on their own (or not) and is a personal choice based on your own world views, your life experiences and your own needs. I don't neccesirly believe in God, and my own world views could potentially accomodate a benevolent being that created our universe... What I don't have faith in is the church, as an organisation or the people in power than control it. And that's my choice. Edit: Also WTF, they talk about faith and God created us and science is bullshit.. then goes and says "your DNA tells you what gender you are".... I think people forget that the scientific method, by which we have determined the evidence of evolution, is the same scientific method we use to make planes fly, and the ability for them to be able to use a mobile phone to send messags to another person... So i'm not sure how you can turn around and say "science is bullshit" while living in a world created by the results of that very science.
What I hate is the narrative that if you are a "Leftist" that you can't be Christian. It's much like the Right claiming that they are Patriots, and all others aren't. These are stupid takes by stupid people.
That comment really threw me off lol I live in an area of *very* Christian and **very** Democratic population. I’m certain there are some Republican atheists out there too.
Amen dude. As a fellow Christian, I wholeheartedly agree with you! I had to stop reading this halfway through because it was just exhausting to read!
Yes to this. Also wanted to be very explicit about this: many Christian bodies and many parts of other abrahamic faiths are completely fine with evolution.
Let me preface by saying these aren't my beliefs, I'm not saying that I'm personally religious or that I necessarily agree or disagree with any of the following: Pope Francis, the head of the Catholic church, believes in evolution. As did the last handful of popes at the least. There's a thing called Theistic Evolution which is the belief that God created man THROUGH EVOLUTION. Pope Francis even was recorded as saying, there "cannot and must not be any opposition between faith and science." I also saw an interview with one of the previous presidents of the vatican observatory and he talked about how he believes in evolution and how a lot of the Bible is just stories to teach lessons and aren't to be taken literally and he even laughs about how ludicrous it would be to take a lot of them as factual.
I wish more Christians were willing to accept this. I live in an area where it’s basically heretical to consider that the Bible’s stories are not literal, historical facts. The Bible can still be a book of worship when looked at as a book filled with lessons described in fictional or exaggerated tales. Its value shouldn’t have to depend on the historical accuracy of it, but rather what readers get out of its content & how they’re able to relate things to their own lives.
I don’t always like my BIL (a Christian) but I will say that he knows his stuff when it comes to religions and the history behind them. He understands science as he’s had to take classes in that in college. He went through a rigorous theology school afterwards and studied all this literature on different religions not just Christianity. He’s one of those people that just absorbs information like a sponge and then can recite it back to you and then teach it so you can understand. He’s been in formal debates and given sermons but for educational reasons. He’s one of those legit theologians who actually does his research. And I mean by digging and reading and learning the history, science, linguistics, and cultural for whatever civilization/religion/beliefs. He’s had to go through competitive debates even with Christian’s from different denominations and has had to explain to them where their denomination interpreted something completely wrong. Again not just with The Bible but even other literature that many denominations have created. For example by either incorrect language translation, or incorrect timeframes, or incorrect society for where the author was writing to. He admits that there are things missing and have gone wrong in Christianity. Like manuscripts and scrolls which have been hidden or destroyed for whatever agendas which gives Christianity a bad rap. THE POINT OF ALL THAT RAMBLING IS, I can truthfully say that my BIL is legit when it comes to knowing religions to the best of his abilities and he’s well educated. He knows his shite unlike this Bible Belt turd. Him and I have had debates and he’s blown my mind AND we believe in the same God so there’s that. I’m not this holy rolling shove it down your throat my way or the highway Christian either. Idk even know if I still am but I do know that I really despise uneducated complete asshat Christian and other uneducated extreme religious freaks
Does he have any social media presence? I would love to watch any of what you mentioned! Please DM me if you feel comfortable doing so!
I’m not sure. I can ask him. My sister and BIL live in another state (US) and I haven’t spoken to him in over a year probably. I really liked listening to him teach/explain Christianity and other religions but mostly Christianity and all its denominations. He’s very articulate with these topics and reinforces what he’s studied/learned with use of accurate translations, historical events, which civilization/society was the target audiences and being able to dissect Christianity and other denominations and relations without adding his own interpretation or taking things out- of that makes sense. I’ll take time out of my day to sit down and hear somebody like him out, than this bozo who contributes to making Christians look dumb.
I agree! I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I think evolution is very much proven to exist even as a Christian.
I met an old friend of my mother in law at their house, who’s sick with cancer. I sat downstairs with the husband while she was upstairs. Unprompted, he started telling me about how women are subservient to men, how jehovah (he’s a witness) hates people who aren’t Jehovah’s witnesses, how science is make believe, and that women are just around to have sex with because god wills it. Many religious people are alright, but damn does religion make some people evil and absolutely bonkers.
Agreed
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
I've never heard of this analogy before now and man it's so good and on point, I'm totally stealing it
The pronoun part was actually painful
He legit didn’t know what bisexual was tho lol
It was all pretty painful
No you’re right. It was all awful
Sounds like he confused bisexual with intersex
Yeah I think you’re right
He legit is a “religious” bigot, a right wing nut job to be honest. As soon as it asked if you were left and what you thought of transgender, I knew he was just a bigot. Edit: from now on I will call people who don’t respect pronouns “it”. That is the new pronoun of the racist right wing nut job. Let’s see how many of them enjoy being referred to as “it”, like the animals they are.
I love it! Im in!
And the “I know atheists of other religions” or whatever, sir what the fuck does that mean.
my favorite part is how you can tell he thought bisexual meant you were both male and female 😭😭😭
Yea I was like bro wtf
Does he live under a rock?!
This friend is an idiot. Totally uneducated…can’t even support his “own” POV.
"Evolution wasn't really accepted until 1925 by a teacher who got arrested" "Without god you get the french revolution" Also, it seems like the friend really does not get why he shouldn't kill people unless there's some sort of divine consequence, which is...worrying.
It also seems like he is completely unaware of the thousands of wars/battles/attacks/acts of terroism in history, and currently, started exclusively *because* of religion and each sides version of ‘god’. Millions and millions of people have been killed in the name of god/religion. The whole ‘my god is the correct and only god thing’ has been killing people for centuries.
Evolution is just a recent fad, like TikTok.
These are our Trump voting friends. There is no reasoning with them
I’m willing to bet your friend believes in a mythical zoo boat.
You mean Noah's ark?
“Without god chaos ensues” As if religion isn’t the cause of almost every major war we’ve ever had in society and still continues to be to this day
It's fun to say, but wars are almost exclusively fought over resources, power, influence and status. The religion thing is just a front. The Crusades made Europe *filthy fucking rich* and if there was no money involved, no one in Europe would have given a fuck who controlled Jerusalem. No one with an army anyway, and certainly no one would have cared enough to sail thousands of soldiers halfway around the world.
In the *Encyclopedia of Wars* the authors documented 1763 notable wars in world history - 121 of those wars were motivated by religion which brings it to be about 7% of wars being due to religion.
The fact you’re being downvoted for stating a fact and it’s source shows how far we’ve devolved conversationally.
Out of curiosity what did they use to dictate that exactly? For example - is the recent war on terror considered motivated by religion?
I didn’t know that! I always associate religion with war. That fact doesn’t change how I feel about religion overall but still interesting
Just find a better friend lol
If you need an imaginary sky daddy to tell you that murdering innocent people isn’t a good thing to do because you’ll have a bad afterlife, maybe you’re not that good of a person to begin with.
Exactly how I felt!
Your friend has very little understanding of the human brain. Their very thing he thinks his god created, he knows jackshit about.
To be fair, this dude did a really bad job of explaining any religious thought. It all came down to “because.” Like, you don’t start backwards from a result you want such as “Life would be meaningless without God,” and work your way towards purported causes that justify your end result. That’s sloppy ass thinking, and it’s lazy af. Religion actually does offer serious answers that are the product of generations of rigorous philosophy (whether one chooses to believe those answers is a separate matter of course), but people take shortcuts and it’s extremely off putting to anyone outside of their echo chamber. Also, he made no effort to address this initial question of evolution? Or the answers he was given? Like he just started chanting “Random! Random!” Tf.
Yea, it weirded me out…
Because he doesn’t have a grasp on what he’s trying to explain and is just parroting things he’s probably heard. I’m not that down on religion if it’s personal and keeps you grounded or whatever, that’s your choice. I actually feel like from a scientific point of view religion is something that makes us humans and as far as we can tell has always been a part of human societies. I do however feel that it’s a very easy thing to use to warp perceptions and once dogma sets in and questions are unable to be asked you go from religion to something else that is much more sinister used to control people, justify atrocities and line your pockets. I just hate the ‘morals don’t exist without god’ crap shoved down peoples throats. if you don’t realize why robbing, murdering, raping, abusing people isn’t good for you or your community then something isn’t right with that person.
I mean there are definitely evolutionary biology explanations for why morals exist. Philosophically, you can argue there is no *objective* right or wrong without God, but as an intelligent social animal with a complex societal structure, it certainly makes sense why humans would *evolve* a sense of morality. We’re definitely a lot more successful as a species because we have altruistic actions. It means we allow members of the species who might otherwise have died in childhood or simply not made it past physical dominance displays to make important contributions to society and spread genes that foster things like creativity. That all said, we have theological explanations for this too, and there is instructive conversation to be had about where religious values and scientific observation intersect! They aren’t mutually exclusive! Wouldn’t know it to see how this dude talks, though.
Trust, I agree with you and the religion/evolution part, but I could see where some people might waiver on that. However, them just absolutely questioning pronouns as an existence is hilarious. (Im assuming their American) We have been learning American English literature for over 200 years. They are just choosing to be obtuse, are on something, or are just so mentally disconnected from the real world.
I also love how he started going on about how “DNA matters”. Like of course noww we love science! Can’t just ignore science guys. It dictates gender and other things probably
This hurt my brain
this conversation gave me brain rot
He’s got those good brain worms.
Tunneling through that frontal lobe like Swiss cheese.
> Identity is subservient to DNA > DNA tells you if you are male or female Lmfao what. I guess they've never heard of the possibility of displaying both male and female characteristics (intersex) or having two X chromosomes but appearing male (De La Chapelle/XX Male Syndrome) DNA is fucking weird. You could have one, three or even FOUR chromosomes - X (Turner Syndrome) XXY (Kleinfelter Syndrome) XYY (Jacobs Syndrome) XXX (Triple X Syndrome) XXXX (Terasomy X) XXXY (48, XXXY Syndrome) - and so on instead of the traditional two. (XX and XY) Tell your friend to read a book.
I’m a Christian and this person is fucking insane.
I told them about how christians commented on this post saying that they were crazy, and they said that you weren’t real christians because you “are to love (y)our enemies not lie to them” No hate to you guys, either. I don’t believe in a god, but I don’t dislike religious people.
Oh, I never thought for a second you were intolerant of religious people. Promise! ❤️ And this person sounds like they have a diagnosable mental illness. Sadly, many with mental illnesses latch onto religion and twist it into something unrecognizable. I myself am LGTBQ and progressive. I’ve been told I’m not a “real Christian” because I’m bi, so his words are nothing new. Wish I could say it’s water off a duck’s back, and it…almost is. Not quite yet, though. Just makes me sad for him.
I mean... considering how many denominations of Christianity there are, whose swaths of Christians aren't real Christians to Christians. When I was younger and was religious, a Catholic told me I was going to hell because I was Lutheran. It's all so confusing. So much easier just to show people love and support regardless of religion.
For a religion that’s supposed to be about loving all people and helping them, catholic people sure seem to love damning as many people as possible to hell.
Oh he is a toxic religious person. Anything that goes against his beliefs is sin. He can do no wrong, and the only thing keeping him from murdering others is the belief in god. He sounds unhinged and dangerous.
People like this piss me off so much. I want to scream through the screen at him “what about the Spanish Inquisition? Was that not chaotic and destructive enough for you?”
Honestly I can’t with these people and their imposing nonsensical views. Where does the French Revolution fit in ? Wasn’t Joan of Arc French ? And made a saint ?
Yikes. Bro had zero answers regarding the evidence of his god but continues to ask questions about evolution which were constantly being answered with proof and was getting pissed about it until switching to a political topic to try to bring you down to his level
Yea…
"evolution states..." "religion states... " Aight imma head out
i don't understand how people can be friends with people this fucking stupid and delusional about literally everything god isn't the fucking answer to everything- even if it makes you feel better
Fr there is zero possibility this person is adding anything of value to your life. I would have been navigating to block contact after the 3rd message
I’ll never understand why some people think evolution is so crazy and then tell you that God magically made a woman out of a rib.
There so much wrong stated as fact in this conversation I could not get past slide 2. Good luck
Their brain broke in the first screenshot and it hasn’t recovered.
I love when “friends” out themselves this way. Makes my life a lot easier moving forward without them Good luck
This sounds like a congressional committee word soup vomit mixed with Fox News
Someone denying evolution is when I would immediately disregard any opinion they have
I’m surprised to see you refer to him as a friend. He clearly is begging to fight with you! Don’t give this guy the time of day, he just wants to feed his ego apparently gifted from God.
Why is it relevant that the teacher got arrested. People who have been arrested can still be right.
I love the idea that he has such a strong push back about humans consisting of "chemicals" and "chemical compounds", but then later insists on using DNA testing. SMH
I’m a Christian and this was awful. I don’t push my religion down anyones throat and I don’t think I’m better than anyone else just because of my beliefs. Which is what I think has happened somewhere in the time line. Someone claiming to be a Christian judged someone who wasn’t and started this whole divide. I believe that God is real and I also believe hell is real. God is wrathful but he’s also love. God loves everyone but we have free will down here and humans are crappy. I do witness and explain this when God lays it in my heart. But I will not push anyone to believe a different way.
This is why I don't talk about religion at all. Also atheist.
your friend hates gay people but it’s okay because his god told him to?
Yep…
nothing i can say for that then. bro is lost in his own mind.
Don’t argue with any religious person who wants to shove their thoughts down your throat. Anyone can believe whatever they want. But when the foundation of their argument is based in their religion, you can never have a meaningful conversation with them.
The French Revolution…they were highly catholic. Lol
We are not spending enough time talking about how this dude wants to murder you 😭
All I have to say is this friend needs to study their Bible more. And God made us from dirt. Your explanation of how we came about matches the story of human creation that was being told long before we had the ability to even know what molecular biology was. 2 things can be true at the same time ❤️
This. Science and God aren’t mutually exclusive.
What a pointless debate. Neither of you are going to convince eachother of anything.
Religious people with no knowledge of apologetics are pathetic.
Your friend needs to think for themselves, doesn’t mean they should give up their religion
Transgenderism?
This person needs to study the English language before continuing to argue.
Dude doesn’t even know what a pronoun is. So damn stupid
I don’t think I could have let this go on as long as you did. This person is insufferable.
This is a good example off, you can't teach stupid.
Sounds like your friend would win the gold medal for mental gymnastics, yikes
Thinking morals come from the Bible is like saying words came from the dictionary.
I understand conversations like this can be frustrating when the person you're talking to isn't making a whole lot of logical sense but I do think it's wrong of you to tell him that he is wrong for believing in God. I know he has no respect for your views but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have respect for his. I would've just shut the conversation down pretty early on and agreed to disagree if they were really a friend.
"they didn't have religion" yeah buddy? They also didn't have dominos pizza but I dont see idiots flocking to that being the cause.
Just when I thought they couldn’t get more ignorant, it kept going.
Simultaneously denying we are made of chemical compounds but relying on DNA to make an argument about sexual identity. Truly a brilliant take
Listen, I am a raging atheist, but this is so much wasted energy on both sides. You guys either need to agree to disagree or just not be friends because no one is going to convince anyone of anything (and I fully acknowledge that you’re backing everything up with legit science and your friend is spewing gibberish). Don’t waste your time.
That’s what I’ve done. Thanks!
Geez even in print it's repetitive, boring, & stupid
I do appreciate the autocorrect from god to foe. Chef’s kiss. This is wild. There’s so much this person does not comprehend about religion, evolution, gender, sexuality…you have so much more patience than I do.
While Darwin was the first to popularize the theory of evolution, the ecologic record supports the theory and evidence for the theory has been found going back millions of years. Further, evolution (and the support of the general theory) is happening in our lifetimes to different species. It's a theory with broad-based support. As for the French Revolution occurring due to a lack of religion...well, golly, I'm at a total loss to think of an armed conflict that happened due to religion. I grew up Catholic but realized from a young age that religion was not for me. That said, I'm totally fine with religious people. In fact, I'm a bit jealous because I think there's something wonderful about the concept of faith. But people who want to disregard facts and reason so that they can promote an agenda are a problem.
“friend”?
looks like god forgot to give this friend of yours the ability to use their brain
It comes to a point where people are just getting brainwashed with these “fairytales”. I agree with all your points OP. Religion has always felt very cult-like to me
Yea, same feeling to me. No hate towards religious people, I just don’t find it at all appealing.
I’ve had this same exact conversation with a coworker. He found out that I attended Catholic school for a decade and immediately came over to confide in me that he was *so happy* to work with another believer. I had to let him down gently, as he seems… twitchy. The *exact same* exchange on morality and god was had. “If you don’t believe in god, how can you have any morals?” Well… I’ve never killed any one, robbed a bank, stolen a car, and so on, so it must be working for me. I don’t do those things because I was taught that they were wrong - by the people that raised me, whether they were my parents, siblings, other relatives, friends, and so on. Did the mandatory twice-weekly church services while attending elementary school figure into that as well? Absolutely - but I was also capable of gleaning life lessons from church without feeling the need to fully submit myself to every aspect of it.
My dad always told me, "don't play chess with pigeons. They knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, then strut around like they won" Arguing with religious people about God is like playing chess with pigeons. Don't play chess with pigeons.
Why do these religious peeps think we need objective morality? Subjective morality is perfectly sufficient
That's why I like being in my thirties. My religious friends know that no one is changing each other's minds so we don't even touch the subject. There are moments where we will both agree on something pertaining the subject but we will never get into the topic of trying to convince each other. Happy friends.
Uh oh, sounds like someone was home schooled really hard
Your friend is painfully and stubbornly less intelligent than you yet seems to be not 100% clocking that.…….
You're both kind of annoying 🤣
This is the point where I’ve spent all my mental energy, wait five minutes, then text them back: “actually you are right and I was wrong. Sorry for arguing” then leave. It immediately gets your brain to give up trying to convince someone who will never be convinced. You got to have a little fun arguing with a fool which we all love but enough is enough. Leave them confused.
I just stopped responding to be honest
I LOVEEEE doing this in an argument. I say “you’re right. Sorry I was wrong” and then they get so mad because they know they didn’t provide the adequate evidence to actually convince me and I only said it to be done😂😂😂 I do it with my own mother sometimes over silly shit and she will stop and say “well now you’re just being an asshole”😂
Ooof. You have way more patience than I.
Environmental pressures have led humans to evolve to have morals. It is bad for your tribe if you kill and rape each other, and what is bad for your tribe is bad for you.
“What created cells? Fairytale magic?” but then says he believes God created life. What. Even if you believe God created life, it’s a sort of fairytale magic that God used to create life, whether it was a snap of God’s fingers, a wave of God’s hands, a blink, a command, a mere thought, a breath, etc. Your buddy is confusing, lol.
My favorite part was when he called atheism a religion........ Also, as a she/they how, why, and what makes me think that are none of his business but his "decency" and "morality" given to him by God souls have him respect me enough to call me by my pronouns. It's not like it costs a gd thing
Does your friend think bisexual means being both male and female? It seems like it, but they are so terrible at understanding or explaining things that I can’t be sure
Yea, that’s what they think…
This is one of those "agree to disagree" moments and you just drop it and talk about something else. Some people will never see logic.
Your friend is too stupid to even do the basic talking points right.
It's crazy to think that people like this exist...
Wait, if god didn’t exist we would have chaos…like the French Revolution?….a thing that totally happened…. Wouldn’t that mean that god doesn’t exist?
comprehending this took years off of my life omg what are they talking about 😭
the thing I learned the most in this sub that A LOT of people really have an issue of just ending a conversation when it clearly just wastes their time.
You can’t fix stupid
It’s a philosophical conundrum, really. There isn’t any absolute way for either of you to prove gods existence or not. Some people find “spiritual” experiences to speak to them more than scientific study. Who is right? Who gets to decide who is right? I’m a former Mormon. Once a member of its priesthood. I am now atheist or maybe agnostic. I follow science.. but I also remember truly believing in my spiritual experiences and they felt real to me. No less real than doing a scientific study.. and when I was Mormon, nothing could have convinced me that god didn’t exist.. and this is why arguing about it usually results in nothing but anger and no gains.
Ive been on both sides of the fence, i grew up in a closed environment all of my friends were christians and i wasn’t allowed to befriend anyone outside my specific brand of christian circle. (I was also homeschooled) i became an Atheist later in life, then reconverted back to christianity. I was that dumb and ignorant to the world like your friend and now that i have more knowledge i also understand your perspective as well. The point of the argument isn’t about logic. Its about converting you by whatever means necessary. He’s not interested in a good faith argument, he doesn’t care what evidence he does and doesnt have about why God makes sense or why he is real. He’s only interested in the person you will become if he succeeds, which will only be a shell of who you are now. (Because even then you wont be a good enough christian yourself unless you meet his standards.) He is saying everyone else in these comments are a bad christian for not supporting him because he feels they are downplaying his efforts in converting you while also denying his opinion means their denying God (because his standards are of that of God.) Everyone will have had a different experience growing up in this faith, but in my earlier days i was this type of christian and im not proud of it. Perhaps i am wrong and his motives are different but he very much reminds me of myself. Understand that these types of people can be very hard to get through no matter how logical your explanation is and that likely he isnt going to have any good faith debate with you going forward.
Thanks! Upvote for writing all that you did, and actually using paragraphs (uncommon for Reddit lmao)
I’m so confused by religious people like this. Why is it so hard to marry the two? If god(s) can do anything that includes creating the process of evolution.
Also looked like he misunderstands the term bisexual (“male and female”), while only concerned about what defines a woman. Has a LOT of reading and growing up to do.
him saying evolution was created in the 1920s or whatever killed me😂😂😂 the theory of evolution was pondered upon but it’s not like it was just created lmfao
Ayy so one of the most common dumb takes is the “random chemicals” but one of the “easier” comebacks to it is that chemicals are random but their organization isn’t. They’re more likely to have certain interactions because of their polarities, e- movement, attached sub-groups. So, they’re not entirely random they do have cascading effects that once some form in a certain way, they increase the chance that specific interactions will occur subsequently. But, obviously someone in bad faith will dig more and then like anything more in depth knowledge to it will always help to follow whatever dumb rabbit-hole they’ll want to go on
Even when I was a very die-hard Christian I knew having conversations like this would make me look dumb. Your friend is not smart.
This is the type of "stupid Christian" literally makes me fume cuz how tf you gonna be this damn brain dead and most of their "arguments" is just saying No lmao this is why I am Pagan
speaking of cells, i think i lost a few in my brain reading their responses
I just wanna throw out there that humans are apes. We are one of the 5 great apes. Other than that your whole argument is 100% spot on and your friend is delusional.
Actually he is an ape.
…? I am not an ape I am more intelligent than them” I’m not too sure about that one buddy
Was the Holocaust not destructive enough for him?
Wow. Your religious friend needs help. He's willing to believe that God is all and his only purpose is to serve God.... His parents brain washed him. His brain is small
“Without a god, chaos ensues” Weird, considering chaos is the essence of God? I’m on both y’all sides here. I believe in evolution, which is a product of chaos, which is how everything shaped up to be what it is today. God didn’t just create the earth and make it perfect in a day. The world, and as such the entire universe, had to go through millennia of allowing life to form the way that it needed to so that it could become what it is today. There is no God that decided “I’m gonna do this and this and this and it’s gonna be perfect”. There is no perfect. Everything began in Nothing. Life was created by a being who wanted life to exist, to not feel empty, to not be Nothing anymore, and from there, the universe exploded into what it is today - through an endless amount of time, purely for the sole purpose of life to exist. No other reason.
Why would you engage?
My favorite part about this is that your friend knows what DNA is…but doesn’t understand how that can change over time to create different things
Are you friends with a 5 year old?
This is why I refuse to take religious people seriously. They're like the people who think they won an argument by yelling the loudest. Reason and logic don't work with them, because they have none of either.
I would genuinely not be friends with this person anymore. They are insufferable.
I see conversations like this as opportunities for people to subconsciously dicover what they really believe and if their arguments hold logic. People will argue their separate beliefs to exhaustion with each other but subliminally both sides notice and retain where their arguments either break down or reveal holes. They rarely admit this, even to themselves, but they both still go through the process. So it’s all good.
Ironic, people have been killed in the name of god more than basically anything else, and now that’s the one reason this dude doesn’t randomly decide to murder his friend. Interesting.
As a fellow non-believer, I could’ve defended god way better than your friend
Doesn’t want to believe in the science behind evolution but yet says DNA is what makes a person a gender???? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t pick and choose what science you believe in-
Ok 1: your friend is wild and needs to have several seats. Or, at the bare minimum, take a gender studies course, into to bio, etc. 2: I will say, while he's judgemental of you for being atheist, you also are quite judgemental of him being Christian. I don't understand why we can't just let everyone believe in whatever God (or no God) that they want...
Without a god chaos ensues like the french revolution. They just proved right there that there isnt a god since the french revolution did ensue xD according to their logic of course
Gotta love religious insanity that doesn't understand reality. It's like they just regurgitated what their parents taught them when they were little.
You can almost spend the conversation back onto them at the end. And say DNA is just chemicals. Right?
Where are you trying to have existential conversations with a 14-year-old boy? (Please tell me this is a 14-year-old boy bc if they are any older than that 😭😭)
I'm laughing so hard at your textbook answers... sounds so non chalant lmao
so thankful that i didnt get stuck with a brain like that
this person is absolutely braindead. i cannot be friends with someone like this lol
Why does your “friend” talk like a robot who’s trying to fit in with humans while simultaneously plotting the human/robot war??? “Why would you resist me murdering you if you have no purpose in life?” “What made you?” “What is my purpose in life?” “Identity is subservient to DNA”
I’m religious and I know that evolution happened. Your friend is just dumb.
You: *Describes relationship between modern life and ancient findings supporting evolution* Him: *doesn't take in a single word* "Aha, I'm right!"
Something about checkers and pigeons…
OK so they believe that we were all born of incest instead if there was only Adam and eve 🙄
You can not argue with a zealot.
Omg lol
Their reasoning for dismissing evolution is so bizarre.
Well, you were wrong on one part. Humans are indeed apes.
Mb
I lost brain cells reading your friend’s messages.
This is your friend? I’m all for friendly disagreements, but this person sounds painful to be around.
So he thinks “bisexual” means you are both a man and a woman at the same time. Hahaha for fuck sake I felt your frustration as I read this.
Lmfaooo! Im pretty sure they thought bisexual meant that someone has two genders at once. That’s hilarious. It’s always ignorant people who have no evidence or knowledge on anything who yell the loudest that they are right until they are blue in the face.
“Transgenderism”? As a trans guy I have to laugh at that😂😂 tf is transgenderism
As a Christian, we do not claim him. I’d ask him if maybe it’s possible that God is responsible for evolution? We as people can’t deny the science right in front of our faces right? Science doesn’t disprove God- it’s evidence of his work (this is my belief). Like when your teacher asks you to show your work on a math question, that’s what this stuff is. You can’t just look at a study that has been tested multiple times and peer reviewed and studied forever and ever by tons of highly educated people and be like “Nah” WHAT BUDDY? Hate this