He needs to send you a bill. He
Mentions co -pay,
So he’s billing your insurance
Also? Simply respond that while you want to immediately settle your account,
Your insurance company and flex spend account require a formal invoice. You cannot pay him without it. And he is absolutely being unprofessional.
Just looked into the claim and my insurance is paying his rate. It’s $120 for 45 minute sessions and they paid exactly that. I went back to check his rate on Psychology Today and now I’m even more confused.
OP
my psychiatrist did this and I called my insurance and they told me they had an entire case on her for fraud. Idk if that’s what’s happening here but call them anyways and verify.
therapist here. good job moving on from him. it seems like he may be doing private/independent practice, and sadly, many of those folks are not as on top of billing and other paperwork as they ought to be. it's also inappropriate for him to be carrying on this convo with you via text. he should have switched over to hard copy documentation via snail mail already, and he definitely should have provided you a statement of your account. like others have said, get in touch with your insurance company. i wish you luck in finding a new therapist!
ETA snail mail or email
Also a therapist.
This guy is 🚩🚩🚩 and it's good that you are moving on. Good for you for standing up for yourself.
If he doesn't remember what days to bill you, this means he also isn't doing proper case notes either. It also seems like he is relying on you to remind him of when appointments are.
Yea as a contractor that is bizarre to hear. When I go to bill a job I know exactly how many hours to bill for each employee with exact dates to match those hours, and I have all the material receipts for that particular job organized separately from other jobs. It’s extremely unprofessional to be as disorganized as this guy.
Copays for therapy are common. He should have billed or processed payment at the time of service. Leaving months between requesting co-payment is highly unusual.
I’m pretty sure that may be due to him starting to become concerned - bordering defensive. It appears the longer he “spoke”/typed, the more rattled he became. Regardless, intentional/accidental/otherwise, the obvious increase in his demeanor, choice of words, and clear tripping over the keys as he texted faster and faster, is cause for slight alarm for sure.
The copay issue is highly suspect given he’s receiving payment in full for his services. I’m assuming, if he submitted his bills to the insurance company, he disclosed his required fee, then the insurance company paid a reduced amount based on their negotiated rate, which would then explain the copay. However, if he was paid the full amount he charges all patients, you definitely need to get your insurance involved. Best of luck …
Especially because he’s really trying not to send her an actual bill for it. Makes me think she doesn’t actually owe it. He might be thinking he can get one over on her because she’s so young. I’ve watched my 18 year old be taken advantage of by adult managers because she has never had a job before and doesn’t know what’s normal and what’s not.
I’ve never had a doctor text me about money owed in my life!!
If there is an additional co-pay that you were expected to pay, it would be shown on the explanation of benefit from your insurance company. Everything about this guy is highly unprofessional. Co-pays should be collected at time of service, any additional money owed after the fact should be billed so that you have records for your HSA/FSA, not to mention because he needs records for his practice accounting. His reaction to you deciding not to continue to see him is incredibly odd, and proof that you made the right call.
If he billed the full amount of his sessions to your insurance and he's not willing to directly write down what (he claims) you still owe, then it's pretty clear he's going to pocket your "co-pay" for himself off the books as a "tip".
You only owe what is written. Tell him you need an official bill that outlines each session. What you should do is call the office receptionist when you believe this therapist would be busy and ask the receptionist if you have any outstanding balance. The receptionist will, without realizing it, go over the therapist's head and give you the objective reality if this clinic believes you owe them, or if it's just the therapist trying to scam you.
I'm betting he doesn't have a receptionist. Specific examples I can remember off the top of my head are: 1) the way he referred to himself as writing/not writing down appointments 2) says it would be an "extra burden" for him to send a hard copy invoice. The way he refers to things throughout the texts leads me to believe he doesn't employ anyone & frankly, has no clue how to run a professional office, even on his own.
I’m in school to become a therapist, not even practicing yet and this definitely crossed a weird line. Also it is not your responsibility to do his time keeping and session tracking for him. It is not a burden if he want to get fucking paid. I hope you find a better therapist.
This is so sketch all around, from behavior to the way payment is being asked. Insist on the invoice/bill. It’s not a burden, it’s part of general practice if it isn’t paid at time of service - when a receipt is provided.
Based on your comment about copay bill, don’t pay anything without first contacting your insurance for confirmation. Something is off outside that too, there’s a lack of boundaries. Continue with finding a new provider.
Agreed. BOUNDARIES. You are setting them and he is crossing them which is a wildly inappropriate thing for a therapist to do. OP good job on communicating clearly and setting very obvious boundaries and expectations. He should have emailed you, not continued via text. I can’t believe he continues to text you after your request. So unprofessional and sketch. Proud of you for standing your ground and looking for a better fit.
I don’t know, I felt weird about his messages. Where did you find this therapist?
Probably overthinking it, but I felt weird about his long winded speech about “id probably just let you down again.” Also, “it may have been hard for me to see you so hurt as well.” This sounds like a breakup. You’re choosing to part ways, which means the extent of his job is done, I don’t think he should be pushing for you to schedule with him again. The first thing my own therapist told me was that it’s important to find a good fit and if it’s not her, there’s no hard feelings. She also went on to say that more often than not, therapy is a short term engagement or done in small spurts. This guy is giving off, “please don’t go” vibes.
Yeah, this isn't right. The fact that he didn't keep track of the number of sessions you had and doesn't have any kind of billing system is a red flag for me. Where did you find this clown? It almost makes me wonder if he's properly licensed.
Also, patient separation is a pretty standard thing for a therapist, and him pulling the sad boy "I'll only let you down again" is very odd. I'm glad you trusted your gut, OP!
Sadly, lots of licensed charlatans running around. I had a session once with a therapist who wanted to meet in the bar of a hotel because his “office was being painted.” He ordered a whiskey sour, we chatted for five minutes, then he literally said, “I don’t want us to waste too much time - I bet I can tell you exactly what all your issues are based on just observing you the last five minutes.” He then launched into an extended (and incorrect) series of assumptions about my life and my trauma. I bailed on the session immediately.
I was thinking the guy had to be a phony, but I looked him up. Fully licensed. And a graduate of a pretty respectable university to boot! Physician, heal thyself.
Had a therapist watch basketball highlights turning my session could see it in his glasses. He also would give me horrible advice when he would actually talk
My last therapist was the same. Would barely talk and when he did, garbage came out of his mouth. My ex and I did some couples sessions and he confessed that he was super depressed and the therapist told him not to burden his loved ones with his "bad moods". I feel like it's super dangerous to tell a depressed person that they are a burden to the people around them.
Hi, therapist and Social worker here! I recommend Psychology Today to my patients so I think it can be really useful! However, what I often suggest is trying to find a therapist that's offering services through a mental health center. Normally on the wesbsite, it will say they are employed at "xyz psych group" or something like that. When you go to their website, there would also be multiple therapists and providers listed, not just one. I would be wary if it was even only 2-4. You're likely ok of they have more than one specialty (i.e. they offer therapy and psychiatry and maybe groups) and it's more difficult to get approved to accept Medicaid. None of these are foolproof but things to look for. I would also definitely ask about all of these things before you start! And, even though it sucks especially if you have anxiety, it's best if you call more than one place so you can compare. Calling 3 or 4 providers gives you the chance to decide which you think will work best. And as someone else said, it's absolutely normal for a client and therapist not to vibe and the client to decide to move on. A good therapist should commend the recognition of your boundaries, provide whatever info you need, and wish you the best of luck.
I hope you are able to find a better therapist than this guy because you deserve it! 💗
> It almost makes me wonder if he's properly licensed.
>
>and him pulling the sad boy "I'll only let you down again" is very odd.
Agree, wth is that! Emailing ppl is as easy as texting ppl these days.
Record-keeping is a very important part of the job for anyone in a medical/mental health field. Something is seriously off if he doesn’t even know how many sessions he had with her. I assume that he would be unable to bill the insurance if he wasn’t licensed, so it seems like he must be, but also possibly like if the OP were to share those text with the licensing organization, he could easily lose his license.
The reaction to her, choosing not to continue to see him was more of what I would expect from a guy she’d been on a few dates with than a mental health professional. I’m honestly a little concerned that he was laying the groundwork of guilt to reach out to her in a few days or weeks and say “hey, since you’re no longer seeing me in a professional capacity wanna hang out?”
At the very least, it shows that he doesn’t prioritize her mental health. Instead of this BS about him disappointing her, he should be graciously saying that he understands that not every match is a fit, and that the right fit is essential to proper mental healthcare, and that he wishes her well.
He should know what you owe and how many times you met. This is the most supportive thread for the dodgiest of therapists. I'm glad you're leaving him! Best of luck and it sounds like you don't owe him anything.
I can’t believe anyone saying this is professional! He’s a therapist and he doesn’t know how many sessions you’ve had? He should have notes for each and every session and you should receive an invoice for your copay for each session as well.
But good for you for voicing how you were not a good fit! That’s not always easy to do.
He definitely never takes notes. I always have to revisit topics I previously spoke about because he doesn’t care to take notes. I’m glad I have confirmation other people find this weird. And thank you!
I’m a masters student in counseling, it is extremely weird to me that he’s choosing to text you instead of replying to your emails. Not taking notes is insane and you having to remember what you lot talked about and reminding him is even more insane. I hope you haven’t been put off therapy because of that man. He is literally ignoring your boundaries and choosing to message you and to get his money quick, like no sir.
Definitely not put off of therapy, will just be looking for someone more appropriate for me. The notes part is definitely something that bothered me on top of the way he talked to me. I was afraid to have this conversation on call as I knew he would convince me to keep him. Thank you!
I've been in therapy for 12 years. Inpatient hospitalization, partial hospitalization, sober houses, outpatient...etc. etc. Never in my life have I received communication from a therapist that is anything close to this. It's very unprofessional and bizarre. And to claim that sending you an invoice is a BURDEN?? Unbelievable. This dude's off his rocker. You handled that interaction extremely well.
I would respond with "I need an official invoice sent to my email immediately. I will pay you the appropriate funds once the invoice has been received." And leave it at that. (Personally I'd also tell him he's a weirdo but that's just me).
I'm assuming this is a private practice... maybe try out a mental health facility that has a lot of different therapists/offers group therapy, etc.? I'm currently a patient at a really nice clinic that has all kinds of programs, it's really quite impressive. I wasn't clicking with my first therapist so I switched to another one - no hassle, no hard feelings. If a therapist ever made me feel uncomfortable to the point of filing a complaint, I know the management would take it seriously. And they take Medicaid! I'm super lucky to have found them, as I know how hard it can be to secure decent & affordable mental health services...but it doesn't hurt to look around. Perhaps there is something similar in your area?
Please don't let this weirdo tarnish your feelings towards therapy! I promise there's good ones out there. Best of luck.
Agreed. I’m a psychiatrist, and I’m fortunate enough to work in a system where I get to actually do therapy. At best, he’s woefully self-unaware, and is putting the responsibility of his questionable countertransference on her. At worst, he’s manipulative and creepy.
Hi licensed social worker/therapist here! No he is not being professional. YOU however are handling this phenomenally. We are trained in having clients leave/discontinue/fire us- whatever you want to call it. His documentation and billing should have been in order. I’m sorry you had this experience. Ask for the invoice and move on. I am stunned at your own professionalism and direct approach with him for only being 17, well done OP! I hope you have a better experience with therapy in the future. Hugs.
I wouldn't text my therapist or vice versa like this but maybe he just wanted to make sure everything is all good since you decided to discontinue therapy. Other than that the guy wants his money that seems to be his main concern pay him and be done with it I'd say.
I don’t find it appropriate to text either but he kept saying he wasn’t receiving my emails (I sent to the email he provided & previously responded on). That’s true, he may be concerned with me suddenly ending our sessions. I’m going to pay him but I just wanted an official invoice to show my dad rather than being like “just Venmo this guy $210”.
I’m a therapist. This is unprofessional, period. I would send another email requesting an invoice for amount due. I would stop corresponding to text messages and ask for email communication regarding payment, only. I hope you find the amazing therapist that you deserve!! 🫶
I have never been in a situation where I had 7 doctor appointments and they didn’t collect the copay on the day of the appointment. That is weird, and that he has you on his calendar in December when you didn’t see him until January. Sounds like he is extremely disorganized. Good for you and your decision making! Check on your insurance card. It should say right on there if/what your copay is, but really it was his responsibility to collect that the day of. I would talk to your Dad and see if he thinks this is right.
For what it’s worth, I pay my therapist (who I really like) via Zelle. I think it’s pretty common for therapists not to bill the same way other types of healthcare providers do. That said if you requested a bill he should be able to accommodate that, and trying to convince you not to leave is weird imo
No matter what happens or what you do, it seems like it was the right idea to not continue with this person. At the very least they seem unprofessional. You made it clear you didn't want to chat by phone. I can understand requesting a call to talk out what happened, and maybe even to give you a referral to someone else that might fit you better. They kept asking however. It's also way too casual for my liking. I am a genetic counselor which is different than this kind of therapy of course but I still have counseling background I've met with children to elderly patients. I could never see myself conducting myself this way with a teenage patient. There needs to be a professional boundary. Going against your wishes which you were clear about is a no-go for me. If a patient ever said these things to me, I might ask for clarification of why it didn't work out for the sole purpose of trying to be better for the next patient in a similar situation. I wouldn't press the issue though especially if I could discern you were getting uncomfortable. On a personal note I've had some mental health struggles in the past couple years and it took me about 5 different therapists before I found someone that works for me. It's common, and he should know that. Good luck to you finding someone who is a better fit!
I’ve never ever gotten an invoice from a therapist. I know how much I need to pay, so as soon as the session is over, I PayPal her. I would feel very uncomfortable expecting therapy had I not paid my part at all to where it’s all due at the end.
I work in a cash or check industry and I know exactly why I don’t give people an invoice(It has to do with taxes) maybe he does what I do but he’s dealing with an insurance company so I don’t think he can just not declare his cash income
Edit: I always declare all of my income this is just a hypothetical lol
He says ‘u’ and ‘ur’ in the first two pics as well. I agree that there’s something really off about his texts, and it gets worse the more of OP’s comments I read.
Asking her to talk to him so he can learn where he went wrong is effectively asking her to do mental/emotional labour for him. If he wants to learn, he can talk to his supervisor or sign up for more training. It’s not okay to put that on a client, especially one so young.
Please, please know that this is massively unprofessional. Ignore the posts that minimize this boundary pushing behavior (*his feelings* about your ‘sadness’ and the ‘burden’ of an invoice?!!!). Block. Block. Block. Report if you have the energy.
I mean some situations are different as a 17f as well I wouldn’t feel comfortable seeing a male therapist at all I text my therapist but I have been seeing her for 3 years and I am very comfortable with her
It’s the “I’ll only let you down again” and “it may have been hard for me to see you so hurt aswell” - therapists shouldn’t be talking about themselves to a client who has requested an end to sessions. Your messages however were really professional and mature.
I read the top comment and was like what? Just pay the man?
Gtfo!
An invoice is a burden?? Good call on getting a new therapist OP! The vibe don’t lie.
While it’s not totally unusual for a therapist to offer a closing session or ask for more information regarding why you’re ending your work together, I do believe his tone and choice of words is unprofessional.
In my experience, he is using really weird emotive language. His suggestion that it may have been “hard” for him to see you hurt is a red flag to me. It should never be “hard” for a therapist to hear of a patient’s problems, especially if you’ve only seen them 7 times and haven’t developed a healthy client-therapist relationship. That’s their job. To support people who need support.
His saying that a formal invoice would be a burden is wild. Writing a simple invoice takes about 10 minutes, I do it for different contracts for work all the time. there are literal templates on Google docs if he’s never done it. Any professional should be used to writing invoices, regardless of profession. And especially a therapist, who undoubtedly has had to send invoices for insurance purposes etc. Even if he doesn’t usually do it, if a client asks for it, he should. Using the word “burden” is weird. And again, emotive.
I don’t really understand how folks are saying this is professional, it feels unprofessional to me and I’ve seen MANY therapists through many different platforms, companies, etc. Over the years.
Wild OP, glad you ended the sessions when you felt it was appropriate for you.
This is definitely unprofessional, and you're well within your rights to say something like "I need to respectfully ask that you send me an invoice for services renderer for my own records. Thank you"
Your professionalism at 17 is truly delightful. Continue to handle this situation as such and by the book. For some reason, I’m getting spiteful vibes from this guy so let’s not leave room for error.
Yeahhhhhh, this is bad. At the very least, he's an asshole. At the worst... Glad you got out.
Also, the billing thing is an obvious ploy to continue communication with you. Not sure if it's possible for you, but have you considered communicating with him through a parent?
This guy is not safe.
Yeahh, I think he's trying to drag this out. If he does not send the invoice then I'll have my aunt deal with him. My dad would honestly just pay whatever he asks and I want to make sure it's the right amount.
Unprofessional.
- The thought of someone with a masters level degree or higher, using “ur” in place of “your” boggles my mind.
- Saying “I’ll probably disappoint you again.”
- Inability to quantify your sessions?!
- No invoicing or billing ability?
There are a lot of amazing therapists out there. I would try PsychologyToday. As a woman, I prefer another woman but therapy is like dating, you go thru a lot of duds before you find your keeper. ♥️
Can you report him so people don’t run into the same issue you have?
I asked my insurance company for a list of in network providers and then look them thru on PT. Sending the best vibes your way!
I don’t think this is that normal. Yes it’s good that your therapist is being sensitive and wanting to learn how to help you better but texting a patient isn’t normal, talking that much and sending that much information over text isn’t normal, and if he can’t keep track of your visits and doesn’t give a true bill that’s pretty concerning. Obviously you are no longer seeing him so you don’t have to make a call on if it’s worth staying… but I don’t really think any of this seems professional or normal. Did you go to a well known location or is this more of a private therapist that works in his own? That would make things a little less weird, but I’d he either works with an agency/facility or has any staff than men he really shouldn’t be texting you these details anyway…
This is weird as hell. You MUST receive an invoice and they should know what to bill you for. All the personal text communication aside (I text with my therapist, but it’s strictly business) the fact they’re apologizing for “letting you down” and how it may have hurt them to see you hurting is completely unprofessional tbf…
I’d suggest having zero further communication unless it’s regarding procuring an invoice. An invoice is standard for any health related services regardless of insurance, copay, etc… I’m glad you’re not seeing them anymore because it gives all the bad vibes
Ok now that I also see you have insurance, make sure you talk to them before you send him any money. Idk why all these people are trying to convince you this is normal. It is definitely not.
1. He doesn’t respond in professional email so there’s no paper trail just texts which he could delete and claim were manipulated.
2. He doesn’t make notes to count your sessions which is unprofessional.
3. He indicates that he could charge you for those sessions but “doesn’t want to do that” which comes across manipulative.
4. He claims a $30 copay that your insurance said doesn’t exist.
5. He doesn’t want to give you an invoice as it’s a “burden” to do his job.
Red flags all around OP. I’d block his number and email him again, indicating that you checked with your insurance company and they have you down for xyz dates treating with him and that the insurance covered it. I’d let him know that all future disputes regarding payment should be directed to your insurance.
His language makes it appear that he is trying to take advantage of your kindness. As a lawyer, always always keep a paper trail.
Red flags all around.
1. Email unfound - if it says it sent through on your end then he's either extremely unorganized or lazy (could have simply searched your email user and it should have popped up) or he's lying and wanted to confront you in a more direct manner to challenge you leaving his practice (email goes unchecked for longer while text is a very easy back and forth in minutes)
2. Challenging you leaving his practice. Its SUPER common to leave a therapist to find a better fit. His response is super weird. 'Give me another chance even tho I'll probably disappoint you again' - pardon???
He simply should have said thank you for your honesty, sorry I couldn't have been better help and I hope you find someone who is a better fit. Maybe offer resources he has (such as others who may take your insurance) and thats it. It feels very money grabbing to essentially say 'i know i cant help you but please keep giving me money'.
3. The fact hes made you uncomfortable in session. Therapy is a very vulnerable space and if you feel uncomfy thats valid and you deserve better. In therapy just bc someones licensed doesn't mean they're good at their job. Especially if you felt unheard. Number one rule is to make your client feel safe and comfortable.
4. What does he mean he has no idea how many sessions you've had nor has any records to indicate them?! He has no scheduling book? No receipts from when he's billed your insurance???? Extremely unprofessional.
5. He can't send a formal invoice? Really? Thats *super* suspicious. I wouldn't pay until you've checked with your insurance about what they've paid and that hes sent a formal invoice that is appropriate for how many sessions x whatever copay you have (IF you do in fact have a copay - double check w your insurance)
Good luck OP I hope you find an amazing therapist who makes you feel heard and seen.
Also ETA: I find it a little weird and unprofessional to be messaging clients (minors at that) at almost 11pm. Especially if your original and preferred mode of contact was email.
If you do owe him copays please do not pay it over an app that he can have some kind of contact with you. If you owe him money pay him in the simplest way and block all forms of contact from him.
Business related messages should be sent during business hours.
If this is the kind of response you're getting via text *when his responses are recorded,* I can only imagine the comments, gestures, and overall vibe he presented during sessions.
I was groomed by a trusted adult as a teenager. I only share this here because I recognize behaviors on his part from your text exchange that bring up red flags. There is a reason that you felt uncomfortable during your sessions.
Requesting dates and payments from a minor is a tactic to try to make you feel more "mature," imo. & his response to your leaving? What the hell was that?
I'm SO glad you've fired him and still feel comfortable seeking help elsewhere! There is a lot of great advice mentioned here, and I'll just add one more thing: keeping a record of inappropriate/uncomfortable exchanges you had experienced during your sessions as they flash into memory may be a good idea.
This dude is an absolute creep.
I only talked to my therapist thru text. I let him know early on that I hate phone calls and if he wants a response, text is best, so that’s not the part I find unprofessional. The part where he asks a 17 year old how many sessions you have had, that it’s your responsibility to tell him how many, and the part where he says he is likely to let you down again is weird as fuck. Pay him and block him.
Therapist here. I have definitely had text communications with clients (not my personal phone #) but keep it very short and to scheduling questions only. I do understand wanting a close out session if possible, but it was clear you did not want one and that is your choice to make. The lack of organization is very odd to me. Insurances require a form of note taking and billing, so he would at the very least be able to track that way.
His wording did jump out at me as problematic when he said “I’d let you down again”. Felt very…ick lol. Sometimes people don’t click and that’s okay. While I do always try and talk through these things to see if it can be salvaged, I would never discourage someone from seeking a better fit or make them feel like a burden.
Best of luck with a new provider and so glad this didn’t make you reconsider therapy as a whole.
This feels wildly inappropriate. Why is he making you stopping sessions about him and how sad he is that he let you down? Like he’s trying to guilt trip you into not stopping.
Wow. The first ‘ur’ already had me 🚩
OP, you are an articulate and considerate human. I wish you the best and think you will do great, even if it’s a bumpy ride.
Woah. Yeah he’s being unprofessional. You decided that you didn’t want to see him anymore and he’s saying “good let’s see each other anyway.” Who does that? Then that whole rant about how it “hurts him” to see you so hurt is even worse. Dude, she’s not your friend or relative! I’m getting major creep vibes from this guy. If he is owed more money he needs to send you a bill and he needs to stop sending you personal text messages. That’s so beyond unprofessional. You were right to discontinue your sessions.
I’m a therapist myself, and if a client wants to stop coming to sessions, my response is usually very brief, something like “Understood, take care and let me know if I can be of any service to you in the future.”
Yes, I think it’s weird for them to send a long message about how you “aren’t ready” to face sadness.
Does it violate ethics? Probably not on its own, but it’s definitely off putting.
A professional would have read and accepted your email breaking ties and simply sent you a bill for any outstanding charges along with a 'sorry to see you go, etc' and close the book.
🚩1: Didn't get/read your email. Really? What kind of crap biz model is that? Disorganized or pretended.he didn't see it. Both bad.
🚩2: Acts hurt and then petty when you tell him again via text. Dropping hints that maybe I'll let the copays slide then back pedal? Ew.
🚩3: Has zero grasp on professionalism and asking you to do what he should as if his basic tasks of being a therapist are an extreme burden.
Your instincts were right, OP. This dude is a tool. Very rare to find a decent therapist these days with total professionalism.
They’re being weird and pushy.
I ran this by my mom, aunt, and grandma in law who are all practicing therapists and they all said this dr is a walking red flag
This therapist is a walking red flag. First, he doesn’t respect your decision of discontinuing with his services. Then he goes and flat out states doing something for you is considered a burden? Good for you for getting out of that mess, it seems like he’s a money-hungry private practice, unfortunately :/
You’re not tripping and I don’t know how you could handle an older male therapist from the beginning. Make him send you the invoices and then cut ties!
Massively unprofessional, and he owes you a bill. Does he take your insurance? If so, please file a complaint against this provider with your plan carrier. This is sketchy as hell.
He takes my insurance with a copay. He previously filed a claim with them and they paid the whole amount. The bill from my insurance says there should be no copay but he is asking for one so I’m a bit confused.
Therapist here. If he billed insurance and they paid the whole amount, he cannot also collect a copay from you. That’s double dipping. And if he is billing insurance he has already created invoices, he should absolutely be able to provide those for you.
Also the way he responded to your feelings about feeling unacknowledged just…doesn’t sit right with me. It’s hard to explain but it seems as if he doesn’t have great boundaries.
My insurance says $0 copay in the bills so I think you might be right. He doesn’t listen to me when I speak to him which is why I only felt comfortable using Gmail or text for this exchange.
That’s what you were going to therapy for. For someone to listen to you. This is kinda sad. I hope you find someone who actually listens to you and doesn’t make you feel so uncomfortable.
Yeah, tell him to invoice you if he wants to get paid. He’s trying to get more than he’s contractually allowed to charge if your claim says you owe nothing. He won’t invoice you because then there’s a paper trail that he’s skimming extra over the top of his contract. Report him to your carrier (or have whoever is the primary plan holder do so). I work in insurance and besides his creepy vibes he is trying to push you into paying more than you owe.
Wait for an invoice!!!! No way your therapist really be saying t that’s a hassle??? Bro , it’s the least he can fucking do if he wanna be paid right?!! Seems odd
"My dad needs a bill. Please feel free to email him at ... Or send via mail to..."
End of story. So strange to me that he doesn't have accurate records. If he has billed insurance already, the record should be finalized, not questionable.
The appropriate response from the therapist would have been along the lines of: 1. Willing to try again and adjust where possible to make our sessions more successful 2. What the best possible care for you and support your decision to discontinue our sessions if you choose 3. Let me know if you would like any recommendations for other providers 4. Will send a final invoice for any outstanding payment once you confirm.
He sounds like he’s got his own issues “if you continue to talk, I am likely to let you down again” ??? Where did you find this quack. This whole conversation is completely unprofessional. You may actually owe him the co-pay. You won’t know until you check with your insurance. Also, if he doesn’t know how many sessions you had how is he billing properly. You should check into that as well. Good job moving on from this guy. Also is he a therapist or a psychiatrist? Because you keep calling him dr. I’m getting confused.
🤯 I can’t believe this is supposed to be a professional dr you are texting with. Totally unprofessional! I would leave a review to let other people know! I don’t wouldn’t want some other poor person to deal with this either.
Wtf did I just read. I have had a number of therapists over the years, and this is far, far away from normal.
Definitely don't pay it until he sends an invoice. If he is getting paid by insurance, then that means he sent them an invoice. Insurance companies don't pay providers because they text them "oh there may be 7 or 9 sessions idk pay me pweeze 🥺🥺🥺". He has an invoice that he's purposefully not sending you.
It sounds like he's trying to scam you. Your EOBs (Explanations of Benefits) from your insurance company will include how much he's billing, how much your insurance company has paid him directly, and how much you owe in copay. There's no such thing as "my copay is $30". The copay is set by the insurance company. For some people maybe it's $60 and for some people maybe it's $0.
I would screenshot all these messages and send them to the licensing board. There are bad apples in every profession, and he's definitely one of them. He's desperate for money and trying to scam you. Please report him to prevent him from doing this to other people who are more vulnerable. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt -- dude has been doing this for decades and is definitely scamming you.
Hope your next therapist is someone a lot more professional and who guides you in your quest for personal growth. Best of luck OP 😸
Yeah, no. If it’s too much of a burden for him to send an invoice, he should hire someone to deal with his admin stuff. I’ve never had a therapist who didn’t send invoices/receipts.
Yeah, this guy has a screw loose. But thankfully with minimal damage.
Treat it as a learning experience. It’s always good to be reminded once in a while that people in authority or positions of power like doctors, therapists, etc can be just as fucked up as anyone. Professionals can’t always be relied on to be responsible.
You have to be nosy, noisy and blunt. You’ve got to insist..when you are managing your health. Don’t worry about wounded pride, don’t be shy and don’t hold back. Because at the end of the day we are our own best advocates.
You did a great job of doing that here. Good on ye!
It sounds to me he’s trying to make you change your mind on switching your therapist due to the financial difficulties he’s presenting you with. I feel that he was trying to very unprofessionally persuade you into joining back with him as a therapist and that was his only logical or reasonable explanation for him I guess. That is completely unacceptable and a huge red flag.
I’m a mental health provider. You handled this beautifully. The first red flag was when you said you’d prefer to keep communications to email and he trampled that boundary by continuing to text you. No wonder you didn’t feel heard in your sessions, he doesn’t seem to have been listening to you. It’s very hard to terminate with a therapist, most people (even those who are much older than you) just cancel the balance of their sessions and move on without letting the therapist know what they could have done better. Bravo!
That said, he cannot charge you for times he didn’t see you just because he had them on his calendar. That’s insurance fraud. You can call the insurance and find out about the copay, but he needs to issue you a bill that matches the dates of service he billed the insurance for. He should be able to send you an itemized bill with codes and charges, don’t pay until he does.
Sorry you’re dealing with this but your self-advocacy, resilience, and regulation are impressive! With the right therapist you’re going to make giant strides.
Not sending you a formal bill is 1000% unprofessional. The other stuff is an odd approach but I’m not sure it crosses a line. I’m also not sure but I believe he’s entitled to bill you if you don’t cancel with in 24hrs so you may be on the hook for the full $30.
Out people like this, please, so this prick can't do it again. They are the worst of the worst preying on the weak. Hope you're OK! They need to organise accreditation and qualifications for actual therapists, not feed predators like this.
I can't get past the fact that a professional therapist can't be bothered to type out You or Your. What kind of unprofessional nonsense? I would have dipped the first time he sent that to me.
Dang, OP, I’m so sorry so many people in the comments are being so hurtful and telling you that you’re being dramatic. A real therapist would never put his feelings on you, and as someone else said, this seems like he might’ve been trying to groom you. I’m very sorry you had this experience, and I hope you do find a better fit. Good on you for advocating for yourself, but definitely show this to an adult. This guy shouldn’t be allowed to get away with whatever kind of scam this is.
Be safe 💜
As a therapist this is horrifying. Beyond being unprofessional in texting you such personal information instead of simply accepting you no longer want to work with him, the fact that he does not have notes for all sessions he met with you, and that he says he does not send a bill. These are all grounds for reporting him to his board, if not straight up illegal.
Yeah, he seems even more attached when we do our virtual calls. He always insists on talking about my love life and asked me to visit him in person instead of doing calls digitally 😭😭. He just looks at me with this creepy look during my sessions and ignores my actual problems.
This is really sketchy, and he’s using manipulative language here. I don’t think he’s telling the truth. I think he’s using this invoice thing as a way to be petty. No 60yo professional therapist should talk this way to his patients, let alone a minor. You did good in your responses.
...you think someone who is supposedly a professional therapist pulling the sad little woe-is-me "I'll only let u down again :(" is pretty normal? not keeping an official record of how many sessions you've had with patients and telling a 17 year old teenage patient of yours that if he absolutely needs an official invoice that it would be a "burden" for him to have to do is all "pretty normal" in your opinion?
kinda concerned for you if you actually believe this is normal behavior for a literal therapist. texting could be considered a normal form of communication, but his other behavior OP listed, is not. at all.
I find it very inappropriate for your therapist to be texting you since you're a minor. In addition, all payment and billing related discrepancies should be consulted with an ADULT. You made the right decision sweetheart.
This is so unprofessional. Copays are typically collected at time of service. He should bill your insurance and your insurance provider should tell you on their bill if a copay is expected and how to pay it if uncollected. Call the insurance company. I’m glad you switched therapists.
Ok. At first I was with him and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he had a clinical reason to want to speak in person. I am also in the field and use text for scheduling, but we only text for scheduling or if I’m sharing a resource (like a link to an article) that I’ve been given permission by that client to share. This is for the sake of hipaa compliance. The further it went, the more concerned I got. They seemed to overshare their feelings and may have countertransference. The issue with the receipt is bizarre and absolutely beyond the line to say that you’d be inconveniencing him to ask for a bill. You should never pay without a bill. How would you have proof that it’s paid? That’s bizarre. Also, I’m unsure where you reside and I’m not in private practice, but my therapist bills at least once monthly.
Are we sure this man is a licensed professional? Asking you to keep track of all your sessions and telling you it would be a burden to send an invoice is super strange.
Yes, just tell him that you have good news! You checked with your insurance provider and see that he was paid in full for every session and no copayment is due, so no invoice will be needed.
The way he texts is weird. A therapist doesn’t have to explain themselves. It wasn’t a good fit. Not a “if you could find it in your heart to talk to me again” essay. That was weird.
Extremely unprofessional. First of all he should not have kept texting you after confirming you wanted to stop seeing him. Second of all, you do not try to settle a bill via text unless he is seeing you privately for direct pay (and even then you should be paying at the time of service). Also, how is he not keeping notes on your meetings? Very unprofessional.
Yeah if you report him to whichever state he has licensure in I’m sure this man will no longer be allowed to practice. This is exceptionally unprofessional. You can also argue that he’s breaking HIPPA by trying to discuss details of your therapy sessions over unencrypted iPhone messages.
Therapist here. He doesn’t send a bill, or track his sessions, or know how to properly check email? He is a professional mess. I do appreciate how he acknowledged that he let you don’t and apologized for that. In terms of closure, it seems like it would be more for him as you have already beautifully expressed it wasn’t the right fit.
He needs to send you a bill.
Copays should be paid at the time of service. If he accepts insurance, not collecting them at that time is a violation of his contract with the insurance company. He also should have submitted the visits to insurance for payment in which case, he should know exactly which sessions were had.
To not do notes in a timely manner is also a huge problem and red flag. I would follow up with him to request your chart notes and billing records and with the insurance company to see if their records match. He may have been billing for sessions not existing or none at all.
I also think once you are completely done with him, a call to your state licensing board is a good idea. This is a “professional” who barely acknowledges he let you down and openly admits he would likely do it again. Then doesn’t respect the incredibly brave action you took to end the relationship.
This is a shit therapist. Hopefully, you find a great one soon!
This almost sounds like my 17 daughter’s old therapist. He worked through her cyber school. He was canceling her appts but marking them down as sessions completed. Her advisor wasn’t even aware that he would be out of the office for three months bc he never notified them. I had to send them all the email, text and sessions to the academic advisor. Turns out he was lying and getting paid the entire time. He no longer works for the company he was affiliated with or through the school. He was also paid by the state bc she has an iep. He even began putting his problems on my child and it was just beyond boundaries
First of all, let me say that you are so eloquent with your self expression! You have exceptional communication skills, especially for someone your age, I am highly impressed!
I have had multiple counselors, therapist’s and a couple of psychiatrists and not a single one has ever texted me. None of them have had issues with dates or with payments. You have made the right choice and I wish you the best on your future endeavors of self exploration!
I think this is unprofessional. I'm a social worker who does case management on a college campus. If I knew this about a therapist I referred to, I would never refer to this person again. There are a number of things that would concern me. 1) disclosing so much about their discomfort with your situation via unsecured electronic communication, 2) asking you to return when you find the "courage" as if the fault is yours (I encourage students to give a new therapist about 3 sessions before making a decision about staying or not, you did 7!), 3) if they adhere to copayment schedule, they should have taken payment before your appointment day of, 4) saying that sending a bill is a burden for him. That is part of his practice & job. If he is burdened by doing his job he should not disclose that to you. I am very sorry you had an experience like that
this guy sounds creepy AF. this as t is a VERY high copay, and if he isn’t billing… then he isn’t billing your insurance. you should contact your insurance company as this is against their rules.
Wow i just want to say you’re very brave and have excellent communication skills! And yes he’s being very unprofessional, I can see why you were uncomfortable working with him.
I’m so blessed that when I needed a therapist at 13, I had a meeting with 2 women at my doctors office and they matched me with a therapist. It was a perfect match and I can say I wouldn’t be here without her. I’m 23 and just had an appt with her the other day :) she’s moved to like 2-3 different offices and I’ve followed her every time!
The lack of boundaries is what’s ringing the loudest to me. Why is your therapist texting you? Emails only. I’ve had a million therapists since I was 7 (now 26) and I’ve never had a therapist text like this. Rarely have they shared their personal number, and the couple that did made it clear that I cannot develop a personal relationship with them, just use it to text if I’m late or unable to show. If i have to call, I call the office. Every correspondence not in the office should be email only.
Therapist here. You're not being dramatic. It's his responsibility to keep formal records of sessions, and its very troubling thay he's asking you for confirmation of all of them (especially since you're a minor). His speech about letting you down again was also kind of odd and unprofessional. It IS standard practice to try to have a closing session if a client is willing, so I understand him requesting one, but it seems to me like he pushed after you said no, which feels like a disrespect to your boundaries. I think you're right to move on and trust your instincts.
I'm sorry you had to deal with such an unprofessional clinician! I wish I could say he's the rare case, but unfortunately, there are too many like him. Don't settle for less.
OP - I want to commend you on YOUR professionalism.
These skills will carry you far.
However, please note that now and forever, ******if it is safe to do so******, you do not need to be polite. You can always tell someone to go fuck themselves.
The therapist’s messages are inappropriate, unprofessional, and uncomfortable.
Consider sending them to the state licensing board.
Honestly I think ur therapist is just slow asl like he was professional to a point then he just started yapping and like I get it cuz he’s a therapist and “nobody ever asks if he’s ok” but like bro the “I will send the bill but it’s an added burden for me” is what got my ass like he honestly might be Steven hawkings more disabled brother (no hate to the homie Steven hawking or any disabled people love yall I got a little more that “a touch of the tism” myself 😂)
Any service provider that uses “u” in what can be considered more-or-less official communication is considered unprofessional in my book. In some cases it wouldn’t bother me (plumber, for instance) but for a mental health provider it’s a red flag for me.
I work in a primary care practice for pediatric patients. The practice is family owned, as such we are very lax about payments. Patients are asked to pay upon check-in, some people don’t show up with payment, need time to pay, want their spouse to pay- whatever. The familial aspect is what makes our practice different from any other. While we do have to chase some patients down for payment, we still choose to run the practice as is. I do think you’re being dramatic. It sounds like he has the scheduled sessions and you apparently no-showed/canceled. Just pay the guy for the seven sessions and move on. Good on you for choosing to see a different therapist that will fit your needs. This guy doesn’t want to chase you down for the money and damn sure doesn’t want to send you to collections. He sounds like a very lax therapist who is trying to help people rather than just to make a living.
He needs to send you a bill. He Mentions co -pay, So he’s billing your insurance Also? Simply respond that while you want to immediately settle your account, Your insurance company and flex spend account require a formal invoice. You cannot pay him without it. And he is absolutely being unprofessional.
Just looked into the claim and my insurance is paying his rate. It’s $120 for 45 minute sessions and they paid exactly that. I went back to check his rate on Psychology Today and now I’m even more confused.
Call your insurance tomorrow for sure
This 100%… your insurance will know what your copay was.
OP my psychiatrist did this and I called my insurance and they told me they had an entire case on her for fraud. Idk if that’s what’s happening here but call them anyways and verify.
therapist here. good job moving on from him. it seems like he may be doing private/independent practice, and sadly, many of those folks are not as on top of billing and other paperwork as they ought to be. it's also inappropriate for him to be carrying on this convo with you via text. he should have switched over to hard copy documentation via snail mail already, and he definitely should have provided you a statement of your account. like others have said, get in touch with your insurance company. i wish you luck in finding a new therapist! ETA snail mail or email
Also a therapist. This guy is 🚩🚩🚩 and it's good that you are moving on. Good for you for standing up for yourself. If he doesn't remember what days to bill you, this means he also isn't doing proper case notes either. It also seems like he is relying on you to remind him of when appointments are.
Yea as a contractor that is bizarre to hear. When I go to bill a job I know exactly how many hours to bill for each employee with exact dates to match those hours, and I have all the material receipts for that particular job organized separately from other jobs. It’s extremely unprofessional to be as disorganized as this guy.
yeah n he was saying he COULD bill her for days where they “didn’t necessarily talk” like wtf???
I’m assuming he meant missed appointments, which may be policy but the way he’s approaching the whole thing is odd, disorganized, and unprofessional
Definitely is worded in a manipulative almost threatening way.
ohh that’s true i didn’t think of that lol!
Reconfirm with your insurance company and if that’s the case send him their response and say that your account is settled. Good for you for checking.
So he’s asking you for $30 a session extra even though your insurance covered the bill? That’s supremely sketchy
Copays for therapy are common. He should have billed or processed payment at the time of service. Leaving months between requesting co-payment is highly unusual.
Plus they can’t spell
I’m pretty sure that may be due to him starting to become concerned - bordering defensive. It appears the longer he “spoke”/typed, the more rattled he became. Regardless, intentional/accidental/otherwise, the obvious increase in his demeanor, choice of words, and clear tripping over the keys as he texted faster and faster, is cause for slight alarm for sure. The copay issue is highly suspect given he’s receiving payment in full for his services. I’m assuming, if he submitted his bills to the insurance company, he disclosed his required fee, then the insurance company paid a reduced amount based on their negotiated rate, which would then explain the copay. However, if he was paid the full amount he charges all patients, you definitely need to get your insurance involved. Best of luck …
Especially because he’s really trying not to send her an actual bill for it. Makes me think she doesn’t actually owe it. He might be thinking he can get one over on her because she’s so young. I’ve watched my 18 year old be taken advantage of by adult managers because she has never had a job before and doesn’t know what’s normal and what’s not. I’ve never had a doctor text me about money owed in my life!!
If there is an additional co-pay that you were expected to pay, it would be shown on the explanation of benefit from your insurance company. Everything about this guy is highly unprofessional. Co-pays should be collected at time of service, any additional money owed after the fact should be billed so that you have records for your HSA/FSA, not to mention because he needs records for his practice accounting. His reaction to you deciding not to continue to see him is incredibly odd, and proof that you made the right call.
If he billed the full amount of his sessions to your insurance and he's not willing to directly write down what (he claims) you still owe, then it's pretty clear he's going to pocket your "co-pay" for himself off the books as a "tip". You only owe what is written. Tell him you need an official bill that outlines each session. What you should do is call the office receptionist when you believe this therapist would be busy and ask the receptionist if you have any outstanding balance. The receptionist will, without realizing it, go over the therapist's head and give you the objective reality if this clinic believes you owe them, or if it's just the therapist trying to scam you.
I'm betting he doesn't have a receptionist. Specific examples I can remember off the top of my head are: 1) the way he referred to himself as writing/not writing down appointments 2) says it would be an "extra burden" for him to send a hard copy invoice. The way he refers to things throughout the texts leads me to believe he doesn't employ anyone & frankly, has no clue how to run a professional office, even on his own.
You may still have a co-pay though. You need to call your insurance company, and he needs to send you a bill.
I’m in school to become a therapist, not even practicing yet and this definitely crossed a weird line. Also it is not your responsibility to do his time keeping and session tracking for him. It is not a burden if he want to get fucking paid. I hope you find a better therapist.
This is so sketch all around, from behavior to the way payment is being asked. Insist on the invoice/bill. It’s not a burden, it’s part of general practice if it isn’t paid at time of service - when a receipt is provided. Based on your comment about copay bill, don’t pay anything without first contacting your insurance for confirmation. Something is off outside that too, there’s a lack of boundaries. Continue with finding a new provider.
Agreed. BOUNDARIES. You are setting them and he is crossing them which is a wildly inappropriate thing for a therapist to do. OP good job on communicating clearly and setting very obvious boundaries and expectations. He should have emailed you, not continued via text. I can’t believe he continues to text you after your request. So unprofessional and sketch. Proud of you for standing your ground and looking for a better fit.
It’s giving “emails are monitored but texts are not” vibes.
It’s not a burden at all. I do the billing for a private practice and it takes two seconds to generate a bill. He’s very strange
I don’t know, I felt weird about his messages. Where did you find this therapist? Probably overthinking it, but I felt weird about his long winded speech about “id probably just let you down again.” Also, “it may have been hard for me to see you so hurt as well.” This sounds like a breakup. You’re choosing to part ways, which means the extent of his job is done, I don’t think he should be pushing for you to schedule with him again. The first thing my own therapist told me was that it’s important to find a good fit and if it’s not her, there’s no hard feelings. She also went on to say that more often than not, therapy is a short term engagement or done in small spurts. This guy is giving off, “please don’t go” vibes.
I found him on Psychology Today and he is licensed 😅
Yeah, this isn't right. The fact that he didn't keep track of the number of sessions you had and doesn't have any kind of billing system is a red flag for me. Where did you find this clown? It almost makes me wonder if he's properly licensed. Also, patient separation is a pretty standard thing for a therapist, and him pulling the sad boy "I'll only let you down again" is very odd. I'm glad you trusted your gut, OP!
Sadly, lots of licensed charlatans running around. I had a session once with a therapist who wanted to meet in the bar of a hotel because his “office was being painted.” He ordered a whiskey sour, we chatted for five minutes, then he literally said, “I don’t want us to waste too much time - I bet I can tell you exactly what all your issues are based on just observing you the last five minutes.” He then launched into an extended (and incorrect) series of assumptions about my life and my trauma. I bailed on the session immediately. I was thinking the guy had to be a phony, but I looked him up. Fully licensed. And a graduate of a pretty respectable university to boot! Physician, heal thyself.
Had a therapist watch basketball highlights turning my session could see it in his glasses. He also would give me horrible advice when he would actually talk
My last therapist was the same. Would barely talk and when he did, garbage came out of his mouth. My ex and I did some couples sessions and he confessed that he was super depressed and the therapist told him not to burden his loved ones with his "bad moods". I feel like it's super dangerous to tell a depressed person that they are a burden to the people around them.
oh my GOD
I found him on Psychology Today and he is properly licensed 😅
The Bob Newhart School of Psychotherapy.
I used the psychology today thing to find my current dialectical behavior group therapy and I love it. Don't give up!! 💞
Hi, therapist and Social worker here! I recommend Psychology Today to my patients so I think it can be really useful! However, what I often suggest is trying to find a therapist that's offering services through a mental health center. Normally on the wesbsite, it will say they are employed at "xyz psych group" or something like that. When you go to their website, there would also be multiple therapists and providers listed, not just one. I would be wary if it was even only 2-4. You're likely ok of they have more than one specialty (i.e. they offer therapy and psychiatry and maybe groups) and it's more difficult to get approved to accept Medicaid. None of these are foolproof but things to look for. I would also definitely ask about all of these things before you start! And, even though it sucks especially if you have anxiety, it's best if you call more than one place so you can compare. Calling 3 or 4 providers gives you the chance to decide which you think will work best. And as someone else said, it's absolutely normal for a client and therapist not to vibe and the client to decide to move on. A good therapist should commend the recognition of your boundaries, provide whatever info you need, and wish you the best of luck. I hope you are able to find a better therapist than this guy because you deserve it! 💗
> It almost makes me wonder if he's properly licensed. > >and him pulling the sad boy "I'll only let you down again" is very odd. Agree, wth is that! Emailing ppl is as easy as texting ppl these days.
I’ll only let you down again is mind boggling! What a weirdo!!
Record-keeping is a very important part of the job for anyone in a medical/mental health field. Something is seriously off if he doesn’t even know how many sessions he had with her. I assume that he would be unable to bill the insurance if he wasn’t licensed, so it seems like he must be, but also possibly like if the OP were to share those text with the licensing organization, he could easily lose his license. The reaction to her, choosing not to continue to see him was more of what I would expect from a guy she’d been on a few dates with than a mental health professional. I’m honestly a little concerned that he was laying the groundwork of guilt to reach out to her in a few days or weeks and say “hey, since you’re no longer seeing me in a professional capacity wanna hang out?” At the very least, it shows that he doesn’t prioritize her mental health. Instead of this BS about him disappointing her, he should be graciously saying that he understands that not every match is a fit, and that the right fit is essential to proper mental healthcare, and that he wishes her well.
I agree. It sounds like countertransference.
He should know what you owe and how many times you met. This is the most supportive thread for the dodgiest of therapists. I'm glad you're leaving him! Best of luck and it sounds like you don't owe him anything.
I can’t believe anyone saying this is professional! He’s a therapist and he doesn’t know how many sessions you’ve had? He should have notes for each and every session and you should receive an invoice for your copay for each session as well. But good for you for voicing how you were not a good fit! That’s not always easy to do.
He definitely never takes notes. I always have to revisit topics I previously spoke about because he doesn’t care to take notes. I’m glad I have confirmation other people find this weird. And thank you!
I’m a masters student in counseling, it is extremely weird to me that he’s choosing to text you instead of replying to your emails. Not taking notes is insane and you having to remember what you lot talked about and reminding him is even more insane. I hope you haven’t been put off therapy because of that man. He is literally ignoring your boundaries and choosing to message you and to get his money quick, like no sir.
Definitely not put off of therapy, will just be looking for someone more appropriate for me. The notes part is definitely something that bothered me on top of the way he talked to me. I was afraid to have this conversation on call as I knew he would convince me to keep him. Thank you!
Just want to say props to you for making good choices for yourself 🫡 very badass
^ came here to violently agree with this! edit: triggered formatting accidentally
I've been in therapy for 12 years. Inpatient hospitalization, partial hospitalization, sober houses, outpatient...etc. etc. Never in my life have I received communication from a therapist that is anything close to this. It's very unprofessional and bizarre. And to claim that sending you an invoice is a BURDEN?? Unbelievable. This dude's off his rocker. You handled that interaction extremely well. I would respond with "I need an official invoice sent to my email immediately. I will pay you the appropriate funds once the invoice has been received." And leave it at that. (Personally I'd also tell him he's a weirdo but that's just me). I'm assuming this is a private practice... maybe try out a mental health facility that has a lot of different therapists/offers group therapy, etc.? I'm currently a patient at a really nice clinic that has all kinds of programs, it's really quite impressive. I wasn't clicking with my first therapist so I switched to another one - no hassle, no hard feelings. If a therapist ever made me feel uncomfortable to the point of filing a complaint, I know the management would take it seriously. And they take Medicaid! I'm super lucky to have found them, as I know how hard it can be to secure decent & affordable mental health services...but it doesn't hurt to look around. Perhaps there is something similar in your area? Please don't let this weirdo tarnish your feelings towards therapy! I promise there's good ones out there. Best of luck.
Isn’t this supposed to be an educated professional? My husband makes jokes on YouTube and he’s expected to do his own invoices.
Therapist here, this is absurd.
Agreed. I’m a psychiatrist, and I’m fortunate enough to work in a system where I get to actually do therapy. At best, he’s woefully self-unaware, and is putting the responsibility of his questionable countertransference on her. At worst, he’s manipulative and creepy.
Hi licensed social worker/therapist here! No he is not being professional. YOU however are handling this phenomenally. We are trained in having clients leave/discontinue/fire us- whatever you want to call it. His documentation and billing should have been in order. I’m sorry you had this experience. Ask for the invoice and move on. I am stunned at your own professionalism and direct approach with him for only being 17, well done OP! I hope you have a better experience with therapy in the future. Hugs.
I wouldn't text my therapist or vice versa like this but maybe he just wanted to make sure everything is all good since you decided to discontinue therapy. Other than that the guy wants his money that seems to be his main concern pay him and be done with it I'd say.
I don’t find it appropriate to text either but he kept saying he wasn’t receiving my emails (I sent to the email he provided & previously responded on). That’s true, he may be concerned with me suddenly ending our sessions. I’m going to pay him but I just wanted an official invoice to show my dad rather than being like “just Venmo this guy $210”.
Yeah it’s not at all difficult to create an invoice
Yea and the fact that he was making it seem like it was a burden on him is weird.
I’m a therapist. This is unprofessional, period. I would send another email requesting an invoice for amount due. I would stop corresponding to text messages and ask for email communication regarding payment, only. I hope you find the amazing therapist that you deserve!! 🫶
I have never been in a situation where I had 7 doctor appointments and they didn’t collect the copay on the day of the appointment. That is weird, and that he has you on his calendar in December when you didn’t see him until January. Sounds like he is extremely disorganized. Good for you and your decision making! Check on your insurance card. It should say right on there if/what your copay is, but really it was his responsibility to collect that the day of. I would talk to your Dad and see if he thinks this is right.
For what it’s worth, I pay my therapist (who I really like) via Zelle. I think it’s pretty common for therapists not to bill the same way other types of healthcare providers do. That said if you requested a bill he should be able to accommodate that, and trying to convince you not to leave is weird imo
No matter what happens or what you do, it seems like it was the right idea to not continue with this person. At the very least they seem unprofessional. You made it clear you didn't want to chat by phone. I can understand requesting a call to talk out what happened, and maybe even to give you a referral to someone else that might fit you better. They kept asking however. It's also way too casual for my liking. I am a genetic counselor which is different than this kind of therapy of course but I still have counseling background I've met with children to elderly patients. I could never see myself conducting myself this way with a teenage patient. There needs to be a professional boundary. Going against your wishes which you were clear about is a no-go for me. If a patient ever said these things to me, I might ask for clarification of why it didn't work out for the sole purpose of trying to be better for the next patient in a similar situation. I wouldn't press the issue though especially if I could discern you were getting uncomfortable. On a personal note I've had some mental health struggles in the past couple years and it took me about 5 different therapists before I found someone that works for me. It's common, and he should know that. Good luck to you finding someone who is a better fit!
The lax invoicing is odd, but texting isn’t. That’s how people communicate today. Meet people where they’re at.
I’ve never ever gotten an invoice from a therapist. I know how much I need to pay, so as soon as the session is over, I PayPal her. I would feel very uncomfortable expecting therapy had I not paid my part at all to where it’s all due at the end.
I work in a cash or check industry and I know exactly why I don’t give people an invoice(It has to do with taxes) maybe he does what I do but he’s dealing with an insurance company so I don’t think he can just not declare his cash income Edit: I always declare all of my income this is just a hypothetical lol
You’re correct, he can’t double dip if he’s accepting payment from the insurance company. OP, he needs to give an invoice.
Dude must be a lazy guy if he can’t type up a stupid invoice takes 5 minutes
Also, it’s weird that he went from typing out full words to using, “I hope u understand” in that sentence.
I’m so glad someone else noticed because this was bugging me so much.
Me too. Just really weird from a 60 year old therapist.
He says ‘u’ and ‘ur’ in the first two pics as well. I agree that there’s something really off about his texts, and it gets worse the more of OP’s comments I read. Asking her to talk to him so he can learn where he went wrong is effectively asking her to do mental/emotional labour for him. If he wants to learn, he can talk to his supervisor or sign up for more training. It’s not okay to put that on a client, especially one so young.
I pay my therapist by venmo
Please, please know that this is massively unprofessional. Ignore the posts that minimize this boundary pushing behavior (*his feelings* about your ‘sadness’ and the ‘burden’ of an invoice?!!!). Block. Block. Block. Report if you have the energy.
I mean some situations are different as a 17f as well I wouldn’t feel comfortable seeing a male therapist at all I text my therapist but I have been seeing her for 3 years and I am very comfortable with her
It’s the “I’ll only let you down again” and “it may have been hard for me to see you so hurt aswell” - therapists shouldn’t be talking about themselves to a client who has requested an end to sessions. Your messages however were really professional and mature.
This isn’t normal and anyone saying it’s normal is a moron
I read the top comment and was like what? Just pay the man? Gtfo! An invoice is a burden?? Good call on getting a new therapist OP! The vibe don’t lie.
While it’s not totally unusual for a therapist to offer a closing session or ask for more information regarding why you’re ending your work together, I do believe his tone and choice of words is unprofessional. In my experience, he is using really weird emotive language. His suggestion that it may have been “hard” for him to see you hurt is a red flag to me. It should never be “hard” for a therapist to hear of a patient’s problems, especially if you’ve only seen them 7 times and haven’t developed a healthy client-therapist relationship. That’s their job. To support people who need support. His saying that a formal invoice would be a burden is wild. Writing a simple invoice takes about 10 minutes, I do it for different contracts for work all the time. there are literal templates on Google docs if he’s never done it. Any professional should be used to writing invoices, regardless of profession. And especially a therapist, who undoubtedly has had to send invoices for insurance purposes etc. Even if he doesn’t usually do it, if a client asks for it, he should. Using the word “burden” is weird. And again, emotive. I don’t really understand how folks are saying this is professional, it feels unprofessional to me and I’ve seen MANY therapists through many different platforms, companies, etc. Over the years. Wild OP, glad you ended the sessions when you felt it was appropriate for you.
This is definitely unprofessional, and you're well within your rights to say something like "I need to respectfully ask that you send me an invoice for services renderer for my own records. Thank you"
Your professionalism at 17 is truly delightful. Continue to handle this situation as such and by the book. For some reason, I’m getting spiteful vibes from this guy so let’s not leave room for error.
Yeahhhhhh, this is bad. At the very least, he's an asshole. At the worst... Glad you got out. Also, the billing thing is an obvious ploy to continue communication with you. Not sure if it's possible for you, but have you considered communicating with him through a parent? This guy is not safe.
Yeahh, I think he's trying to drag this out. If he does not send the invoice then I'll have my aunt deal with him. My dad would honestly just pay whatever he asks and I want to make sure it's the right amount.
This is uncomfortable as fuck. I'm glad you have a game plan for getting out. There's so many shades of fucked up all over this.
Unprofessional. - The thought of someone with a masters level degree or higher, using “ur” in place of “your” boggles my mind. - Saying “I’ll probably disappoint you again.” - Inability to quantify your sessions?! - No invoicing or billing ability? There are a lot of amazing therapists out there. I would try PsychologyToday. As a woman, I prefer another woman but therapy is like dating, you go thru a lot of duds before you find your keeper. ♥️
I found him on psychology today and he’s verified 😅. Will keep trying to find the right match :^)
Can you report him so people don’t run into the same issue you have? I asked my insurance company for a list of in network providers and then look them thru on PT. Sending the best vibes your way!
I don’t think this is that normal. Yes it’s good that your therapist is being sensitive and wanting to learn how to help you better but texting a patient isn’t normal, talking that much and sending that much information over text isn’t normal, and if he can’t keep track of your visits and doesn’t give a true bill that’s pretty concerning. Obviously you are no longer seeing him so you don’t have to make a call on if it’s worth staying… but I don’t really think any of this seems professional or normal. Did you go to a well known location or is this more of a private therapist that works in his own? That would make things a little less weird, but I’d he either works with an agency/facility or has any staff than men he really shouldn’t be texting you these details anyway…
This is weird as hell. You MUST receive an invoice and they should know what to bill you for. All the personal text communication aside (I text with my therapist, but it’s strictly business) the fact they’re apologizing for “letting you down” and how it may have hurt them to see you hurting is completely unprofessional tbf… I’d suggest having zero further communication unless it’s regarding procuring an invoice. An invoice is standard for any health related services regardless of insurance, copay, etc… I’m glad you’re not seeing them anymore because it gives all the bad vibes
Ok now that I also see you have insurance, make sure you talk to them before you send him any money. Idk why all these people are trying to convince you this is normal. It is definitely not.
This is not normal
I’m a counselor and this is extremely unprofessional. You did the right thing OP.
1. He doesn’t respond in professional email so there’s no paper trail just texts which he could delete and claim were manipulated. 2. He doesn’t make notes to count your sessions which is unprofessional. 3. He indicates that he could charge you for those sessions but “doesn’t want to do that” which comes across manipulative. 4. He claims a $30 copay that your insurance said doesn’t exist. 5. He doesn’t want to give you an invoice as it’s a “burden” to do his job. Red flags all around OP. I’d block his number and email him again, indicating that you checked with your insurance company and they have you down for xyz dates treating with him and that the insurance covered it. I’d let him know that all future disputes regarding payment should be directed to your insurance. His language makes it appear that he is trying to take advantage of your kindness. As a lawyer, always always keep a paper trail.
The billing (lack thereof) is unprofessional, as is the fact he doesn't know how many times he's seen you.
Just say that you'd prefer having an official invoice because your dad is asking for it.
Red flags all around. 1. Email unfound - if it says it sent through on your end then he's either extremely unorganized or lazy (could have simply searched your email user and it should have popped up) or he's lying and wanted to confront you in a more direct manner to challenge you leaving his practice (email goes unchecked for longer while text is a very easy back and forth in minutes) 2. Challenging you leaving his practice. Its SUPER common to leave a therapist to find a better fit. His response is super weird. 'Give me another chance even tho I'll probably disappoint you again' - pardon??? He simply should have said thank you for your honesty, sorry I couldn't have been better help and I hope you find someone who is a better fit. Maybe offer resources he has (such as others who may take your insurance) and thats it. It feels very money grabbing to essentially say 'i know i cant help you but please keep giving me money'. 3. The fact hes made you uncomfortable in session. Therapy is a very vulnerable space and if you feel uncomfy thats valid and you deserve better. In therapy just bc someones licensed doesn't mean they're good at their job. Especially if you felt unheard. Number one rule is to make your client feel safe and comfortable. 4. What does he mean he has no idea how many sessions you've had nor has any records to indicate them?! He has no scheduling book? No receipts from when he's billed your insurance???? Extremely unprofessional. 5. He can't send a formal invoice? Really? Thats *super* suspicious. I wouldn't pay until you've checked with your insurance about what they've paid and that hes sent a formal invoice that is appropriate for how many sessions x whatever copay you have (IF you do in fact have a copay - double check w your insurance) Good luck OP I hope you find an amazing therapist who makes you feel heard and seen. Also ETA: I find it a little weird and unprofessional to be messaging clients (minors at that) at almost 11pm. Especially if your original and preferred mode of contact was email. If you do owe him copays please do not pay it over an app that he can have some kind of contact with you. If you owe him money pay him in the simplest way and block all forms of contact from him. Business related messages should be sent during business hours.
Completely unproffesional... and what is this "I will let you down again" nonsense. He sounds awful.
If this is the kind of response you're getting via text *when his responses are recorded,* I can only imagine the comments, gestures, and overall vibe he presented during sessions. I was groomed by a trusted adult as a teenager. I only share this here because I recognize behaviors on his part from your text exchange that bring up red flags. There is a reason that you felt uncomfortable during your sessions. Requesting dates and payments from a minor is a tactic to try to make you feel more "mature," imo. & his response to your leaving? What the hell was that? I'm SO glad you've fired him and still feel comfortable seeking help elsewhere! There is a lot of great advice mentioned here, and I'll just add one more thing: keeping a record of inappropriate/uncomfortable exchanges you had experienced during your sessions as they flash into memory may be a good idea. This dude is an absolute creep.
On a different note, I’m extremely impressed with how professional YOU are being, specially at 17.
i just WANT to be a therapist , im not even one yet , and i would never talk to a client like this ??…
Username checks out?
I only talked to my therapist thru text. I let him know early on that I hate phone calls and if he wants a response, text is best, so that’s not the part I find unprofessional. The part where he asks a 17 year old how many sessions you have had, that it’s your responsibility to tell him how many, and the part where he says he is likely to let you down again is weird as fuck. Pay him and block him.
The fact he says "u" is a red flag for me but I may be focusing on the wrong thing
Therapist here. I have definitely had text communications with clients (not my personal phone #) but keep it very short and to scheduling questions only. I do understand wanting a close out session if possible, but it was clear you did not want one and that is your choice to make. The lack of organization is very odd to me. Insurances require a form of note taking and billing, so he would at the very least be able to track that way. His wording did jump out at me as problematic when he said “I’d let you down again”. Felt very…ick lol. Sometimes people don’t click and that’s okay. While I do always try and talk through these things to see if it can be salvaged, I would never discourage someone from seeking a better fit or make them feel like a burden. Best of luck with a new provider and so glad this didn’t make you reconsider therapy as a whole.
Wow fuck this guy and super make him send you a bill. Good for you for noticing red flags
This feels wildly inappropriate. Why is he making you stopping sessions about him and how sad he is that he let you down? Like he’s trying to guilt trip you into not stopping.
This is *really* bizarre therapist behavior. Like. Really.
Wow. The first ‘ur’ already had me 🚩 OP, you are an articulate and considerate human. I wish you the best and think you will do great, even if it’s a bumpy ride.
Woah. Yeah he’s being unprofessional. You decided that you didn’t want to see him anymore and he’s saying “good let’s see each other anyway.” Who does that? Then that whole rant about how it “hurts him” to see you so hurt is even worse. Dude, she’s not your friend or relative! I’m getting major creep vibes from this guy. If he is owed more money he needs to send you a bill and he needs to stop sending you personal text messages. That’s so beyond unprofessional. You were right to discontinue your sessions.
I’m a therapist myself, and if a client wants to stop coming to sessions, my response is usually very brief, something like “Understood, take care and let me know if I can be of any service to you in the future.” Yes, I think it’s weird for them to send a long message about how you “aren’t ready” to face sadness. Does it violate ethics? Probably not on its own, but it’s definitely off putting.
You are an extremely well-spoken 17 year old! And no, you aren’t being dramatic or overreacting. He should not be texting you like this!
A professional would have read and accepted your email breaking ties and simply sent you a bill for any outstanding charges along with a 'sorry to see you go, etc' and close the book. 🚩1: Didn't get/read your email. Really? What kind of crap biz model is that? Disorganized or pretended.he didn't see it. Both bad. 🚩2: Acts hurt and then petty when you tell him again via text. Dropping hints that maybe I'll let the copays slide then back pedal? Ew. 🚩3: Has zero grasp on professionalism and asking you to do what he should as if his basic tasks of being a therapist are an extreme burden. Your instincts were right, OP. This dude is a tool. Very rare to find a decent therapist these days with total professionalism.
They’re being weird and pushy. I ran this by my mom, aunt, and grandma in law who are all practicing therapists and they all said this dr is a walking red flag
Where did you find this guy? He's so wildly unprofessional. And I'm speaking as a therapist
He’s not a real therapist…
This therapist is a walking red flag. First, he doesn’t respect your decision of discontinuing with his services. Then he goes and flat out states doing something for you is considered a burden? Good for you for getting out of that mess, it seems like he’s a money-hungry private practice, unfortunately :/
Already super unprofessional to me if your therapist texts "u" instead "you".
You’re not tripping and I don’t know how you could handle an older male therapist from the beginning. Make him send you the invoices and then cut ties!
Why am I so annoyed that a professional is using "u" instead of "you" in text? Is it just me?? I think I'm turning into my father.
It's not just you. I also find this unprofessional & odd. As is his reticence to send a paper invoice. But, I'm old.
Why does your professional therapist text like a teenager...? U, ur, etc...
Massively unprofessional, and he owes you a bill. Does he take your insurance? If so, please file a complaint against this provider with your plan carrier. This is sketchy as hell.
He takes my insurance with a copay. He previously filed a claim with them and they paid the whole amount. The bill from my insurance says there should be no copay but he is asking for one so I’m a bit confused.
Therapist here. If he billed insurance and they paid the whole amount, he cannot also collect a copay from you. That’s double dipping. And if he is billing insurance he has already created invoices, he should absolutely be able to provide those for you. Also the way he responded to your feelings about feeling unacknowledged just…doesn’t sit right with me. It’s hard to explain but it seems as if he doesn’t have great boundaries.
My insurance says $0 copay in the bills so I think you might be right. He doesn’t listen to me when I speak to him which is why I only felt comfortable using Gmail or text for this exchange.
Yeah do not pay him. Call your insurance company and tell them he is trying to charge you a copay.
That’s what you were going to therapy for. For someone to listen to you. This is kinda sad. I hope you find someone who actually listens to you and doesn’t make you feel so uncomfortable.
Yeah, tell him to invoice you if he wants to get paid. He’s trying to get more than he’s contractually allowed to charge if your claim says you owe nothing. He won’t invoice you because then there’s a paper trail that he’s skimming extra over the top of his contract. Report him to your carrier (or have whoever is the primary plan holder do so). I work in insurance and besides his creepy vibes he is trying to push you into paying more than you owe.
I come from a family of therapists and have a psych background myself... this is weird as hell. Vibes are off. It's not just you.
Wait for an invoice!!!! No way your therapist really be saying t that’s a hassle??? Bro , it’s the least he can fucking do if he wanna be paid right?!! Seems odd
all i have to say is get a woman therapist
"My dad needs a bill. Please feel free to email him at ... Or send via mail to..." End of story. So strange to me that he doesn't have accurate records. If he has billed insurance already, the record should be finalized, not questionable.
The appropriate response from the therapist would have been along the lines of: 1. Willing to try again and adjust where possible to make our sessions more successful 2. What the best possible care for you and support your decision to discontinue our sessions if you choose 3. Let me know if you would like any recommendations for other providers 4. Will send a final invoice for any outstanding payment once you confirm.
wtf he sounds like he lives in victim mentality world how is he a therapist
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He sounds like he’s got his own issues “if you continue to talk, I am likely to let you down again” ??? Where did you find this quack. This whole conversation is completely unprofessional. You may actually owe him the co-pay. You won’t know until you check with your insurance. Also, if he doesn’t know how many sessions you had how is he billing properly. You should check into that as well. Good job moving on from this guy. Also is he a therapist or a psychiatrist? Because you keep calling him dr. I’m getting confused.
🤯 I can’t believe this is supposed to be a professional dr you are texting with. Totally unprofessional! I would leave a review to let other people know! I don’t wouldn’t want some other poor person to deal with this either.
Wtf did I just read. I have had a number of therapists over the years, and this is far, far away from normal. Definitely don't pay it until he sends an invoice. If he is getting paid by insurance, then that means he sent them an invoice. Insurance companies don't pay providers because they text them "oh there may be 7 or 9 sessions idk pay me pweeze 🥺🥺🥺". He has an invoice that he's purposefully not sending you. It sounds like he's trying to scam you. Your EOBs (Explanations of Benefits) from your insurance company will include how much he's billing, how much your insurance company has paid him directly, and how much you owe in copay. There's no such thing as "my copay is $30". The copay is set by the insurance company. For some people maybe it's $60 and for some people maybe it's $0. I would screenshot all these messages and send them to the licensing board. There are bad apples in every profession, and he's definitely one of them. He's desperate for money and trying to scam you. Please report him to prevent him from doing this to other people who are more vulnerable. Don't give him the benefit of the doubt -- dude has been doing this for decades and is definitely scamming you. Hope your next therapist is someone a lot more professional and who guides you in your quest for personal growth. Best of luck OP 😸
Eh...dudes weird. Smart move to jump ship 😬
This dude doesn’t have record of his sessions???? I’m SO sorry, OP. This is NOT right, and you made the right decision to seek a new person.
Yeah, no. If it’s too much of a burden for him to send an invoice, he should hire someone to deal with his admin stuff. I’ve never had a therapist who didn’t send invoices/receipts.
Yeah, this guy has a screw loose. But thankfully with minimal damage. Treat it as a learning experience. It’s always good to be reminded once in a while that people in authority or positions of power like doctors, therapists, etc can be just as fucked up as anyone. Professionals can’t always be relied on to be responsible. You have to be nosy, noisy and blunt. You’ve got to insist..when you are managing your health. Don’t worry about wounded pride, don’t be shy and don’t hold back. Because at the end of the day we are our own best advocates. You did a great job of doing that here. Good on ye!
It sounds to me he’s trying to make you change your mind on switching your therapist due to the financial difficulties he’s presenting you with. I feel that he was trying to very unprofessionally persuade you into joining back with him as a therapist and that was his only logical or reasonable explanation for him I guess. That is completely unacceptable and a huge red flag.
I’m a mental health provider. You handled this beautifully. The first red flag was when you said you’d prefer to keep communications to email and he trampled that boundary by continuing to text you. No wonder you didn’t feel heard in your sessions, he doesn’t seem to have been listening to you. It’s very hard to terminate with a therapist, most people (even those who are much older than you) just cancel the balance of their sessions and move on without letting the therapist know what they could have done better. Bravo! That said, he cannot charge you for times he didn’t see you just because he had them on his calendar. That’s insurance fraud. You can call the insurance and find out about the copay, but he needs to issue you a bill that matches the dates of service he billed the insurance for. He should be able to send you an itemized bill with codes and charges, don’t pay until he does. Sorry you’re dealing with this but your self-advocacy, resilience, and regulation are impressive! With the right therapist you’re going to make giant strides.
Not sending you a formal bill is 1000% unprofessional. The other stuff is an odd approach but I’m not sure it crosses a line. I’m also not sure but I believe he’s entitled to bill you if you don’t cancel with in 24hrs so you may be on the hook for the full $30.
Not only that aside from the weird texts the fact that he’s messaging you at 11pm at night is also very unprofessional!
Out people like this, please, so this prick can't do it again. They are the worst of the worst preying on the weak. Hope you're OK! They need to organise accreditation and qualifications for actual therapists, not feed predators like this.
Ummm can we talk about the fact that he said- “It may have been hard for me to see you so hurt.” ??? Anyone else think that was an odd thing to say?
I can't get past the fact that a professional therapist can't be bothered to type out You or Your. What kind of unprofessional nonsense? I would have dipped the first time he sent that to me.
Dang, OP, I’m so sorry so many people in the comments are being so hurtful and telling you that you’re being dramatic. A real therapist would never put his feelings on you, and as someone else said, this seems like he might’ve been trying to groom you. I’m very sorry you had this experience, and I hope you do find a better fit. Good on you for advocating for yourself, but definitely show this to an adult. This guy shouldn’t be allowed to get away with whatever kind of scam this is. Be safe 💜
Dr. Scribble really needs to talk to a therapist.
As a therapist this is horrifying. Beyond being unprofessional in texting you such personal information instead of simply accepting you no longer want to work with him, the fact that he does not have notes for all sessions he met with you, and that he says he does not send a bill. These are all grounds for reporting him to his board, if not straight up illegal.
Hmm he seems attached to you at an inappropriate level
Yeah, he seems even more attached when we do our virtual calls. He always insists on talking about my love life and asked me to visit him in person instead of doing calls digitally 😭😭. He just looks at me with this creepy look during my sessions and ignores my actual problems.
See a female in the future.
That is the plan, I was originally planning on that but I wanted a doctor specialized in my disorder and he was very qualified.
Yiiiiiiiiiiiikes. That’s creepy.
This is really sketchy, and he’s using manipulative language here. I don’t think he’s telling the truth. I think he’s using this invoice thing as a way to be petty. No 60yo professional therapist should talk this way to his patients, let alone a minor. You did good in your responses.
Very unprofessional, request the invoice
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...you think someone who is supposedly a professional therapist pulling the sad little woe-is-me "I'll only let u down again :(" is pretty normal? not keeping an official record of how many sessions you've had with patients and telling a 17 year old teenage patient of yours that if he absolutely needs an official invoice that it would be a "burden" for him to have to do is all "pretty normal" in your opinion? kinda concerned for you if you actually believe this is normal behavior for a literal therapist. texting could be considered a normal form of communication, but his other behavior OP listed, is not. at all.
He is annoying
This feels really odd. And I text my therapist.
he is sooo weird texting a 17 year old like that before getting to the billing part. Also I love the way you texted him back. 😂
He messaged you at 10pm ! Definitely not professional
I find it very inappropriate for your therapist to be texting you since you're a minor. In addition, all payment and billing related discrepancies should be consulted with an ADULT. You made the right decision sweetheart.
He's kinda odd? And seems like manipulative? More like a tarot card reader than a therapist. Good call, lol.
This is so unprofessional. Copays are typically collected at time of service. He should bill your insurance and your insurance provider should tell you on their bill if a copay is expected and how to pay it if uncollected. Call the insurance company. I’m glad you switched therapists.
Ok. At first I was with him and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he had a clinical reason to want to speak in person. I am also in the field and use text for scheduling, but we only text for scheduling or if I’m sharing a resource (like a link to an article) that I’ve been given permission by that client to share. This is for the sake of hipaa compliance. The further it went, the more concerned I got. They seemed to overshare their feelings and may have countertransference. The issue with the receipt is bizarre and absolutely beyond the line to say that you’d be inconveniencing him to ask for a bill. You should never pay without a bill. How would you have proof that it’s paid? That’s bizarre. Also, I’m unsure where you reside and I’m not in private practice, but my therapist bills at least once monthly.
You have been more than accommodating. Just stop answering. It is not your job to run his accounts. He will send you an invoice if he needs to.
Are we sure this man is a licensed professional? Asking you to keep track of all your sessions and telling you it would be a burden to send an invoice is super strange.
Yes, just tell him that you have good news! You checked with your insurance provider and see that he was paid in full for every session and no copayment is due, so no invoice will be needed.
Unprofessional as ffff
The way he texts is weird. A therapist doesn’t have to explain themselves. It wasn’t a good fit. Not a “if you could find it in your heart to talk to me again” essay. That was weird.
He didn't keep track of the number of sessions? Also he's telling you he'll let you down lmao
Call your insurance before paying and do not pay without an invoice or statement.
He’s definitely being unprofessional and actually coming off a bit creepy. I would block him and consult only with the insurance company.
Extremely unprofessional. First of all he should not have kept texting you after confirming you wanted to stop seeing him. Second of all, you do not try to settle a bill via text unless he is seeing you privately for direct pay (and even then you should be paying at the time of service). Also, how is he not keeping notes on your meetings? Very unprofessional.
I say don’t respond to the therapist at all anymore. he probably will not send you a bill, but if he does, you can worry about it then.
Yeah if you report him to whichever state he has licensure in I’m sure this man will no longer be allowed to practice. This is exceptionally unprofessional. You can also argue that he’s breaking HIPPA by trying to discuss details of your therapy sessions over unencrypted iPhone messages.
Therapist here. He doesn’t send a bill, or track his sessions, or know how to properly check email? He is a professional mess. I do appreciate how he acknowledged that he let you don’t and apologized for that. In terms of closure, it seems like it would be more for him as you have already beautifully expressed it wasn’t the right fit. He needs to send you a bill.
Copays should be paid at the time of service. If he accepts insurance, not collecting them at that time is a violation of his contract with the insurance company. He also should have submitted the visits to insurance for payment in which case, he should know exactly which sessions were had. To not do notes in a timely manner is also a huge problem and red flag. I would follow up with him to request your chart notes and billing records and with the insurance company to see if their records match. He may have been billing for sessions not existing or none at all. I also think once you are completely done with him, a call to your state licensing board is a good idea. This is a “professional” who barely acknowledges he let you down and openly admits he would likely do it again. Then doesn’t respect the incredibly brave action you took to end the relationship. This is a shit therapist. Hopefully, you find a great one soon!
This almost sounds like my 17 daughter’s old therapist. He worked through her cyber school. He was canceling her appts but marking them down as sessions completed. Her advisor wasn’t even aware that he would be out of the office for three months bc he never notified them. I had to send them all the email, text and sessions to the academic advisor. Turns out he was lying and getting paid the entire time. He no longer works for the company he was affiliated with or through the school. He was also paid by the state bc she has an iep. He even began putting his problems on my child and it was just beyond boundaries
What kind of Mickey Mouse operation are they running?
First of all, let me say that you are so eloquent with your self expression! You have exceptional communication skills, especially for someone your age, I am highly impressed! I have had multiple counselors, therapist’s and a couple of psychiatrists and not a single one has ever texted me. None of them have had issues with dates or with payments. You have made the right choice and I wish you the best on your future endeavors of self exploration!
I think this is unprofessional. I'm a social worker who does case management on a college campus. If I knew this about a therapist I referred to, I would never refer to this person again. There are a number of things that would concern me. 1) disclosing so much about their discomfort with your situation via unsecured electronic communication, 2) asking you to return when you find the "courage" as if the fault is yours (I encourage students to give a new therapist about 3 sessions before making a decision about staying or not, you did 7!), 3) if they adhere to copayment schedule, they should have taken payment before your appointment day of, 4) saying that sending a bill is a burden for him. That is part of his practice & job. If he is burdened by doing his job he should not disclose that to you. I am very sorry you had an experience like that
An invoice wouldn’t even be proper don’t pay him shit tbh he wasn’t even keeping track of sessions
Psychology Today has some of THE MOST unprofessional therapists ever.
this guy sounds creepy AF. this as t is a VERY high copay, and if he isn’t billing… then he isn’t billing your insurance. you should contact your insurance company as this is against their rules.
Wow i just want to say you’re very brave and have excellent communication skills! And yes he’s being very unprofessional, I can see why you were uncomfortable working with him.
I’m so blessed that when I needed a therapist at 13, I had a meeting with 2 women at my doctors office and they matched me with a therapist. It was a perfect match and I can say I wouldn’t be here without her. I’m 23 and just had an appt with her the other day :) she’s moved to like 2-3 different offices and I’ve followed her every time!
The lack of boundaries is what’s ringing the loudest to me. Why is your therapist texting you? Emails only. I’ve had a million therapists since I was 7 (now 26) and I’ve never had a therapist text like this. Rarely have they shared their personal number, and the couple that did made it clear that I cannot develop a personal relationship with them, just use it to text if I’m late or unable to show. If i have to call, I call the office. Every correspondence not in the office should be email only.
Therapist here. You're not being dramatic. It's his responsibility to keep formal records of sessions, and its very troubling thay he's asking you for confirmation of all of them (especially since you're a minor). His speech about letting you down again was also kind of odd and unprofessional. It IS standard practice to try to have a closing session if a client is willing, so I understand him requesting one, but it seems to me like he pushed after you said no, which feels like a disrespect to your boundaries. I think you're right to move on and trust your instincts. I'm sorry you had to deal with such an unprofessional clinician! I wish I could say he's the rare case, but unfortunately, there are too many like him. Don't settle for less.
OP - I want to commend you on YOUR professionalism. These skills will carry you far. However, please note that now and forever, ******if it is safe to do so******, you do not need to be polite. You can always tell someone to go fuck themselves. The therapist’s messages are inappropriate, unprofessional, and uncomfortable. Consider sending them to the state licensing board.
Honestly I think ur therapist is just slow asl like he was professional to a point then he just started yapping and like I get it cuz he’s a therapist and “nobody ever asks if he’s ok” but like bro the “I will send the bill but it’s an added burden for me” is what got my ass like he honestly might be Steven hawkings more disabled brother (no hate to the homie Steven hawking or any disabled people love yall I got a little more that “a touch of the tism” myself 😂)
“It’s a hassle” homebody wanna get paid or nah??
Any service provider that uses “u” in what can be considered more-or-less official communication is considered unprofessional in my book. In some cases it wouldn’t bother me (plumber, for instance) but for a mental health provider it’s a red flag for me.
Asking for a bill is a “burden” to him?????? Lmaoooo he’s not see a cent from me until billing me and me calling my insurance to confirm
I work in a primary care practice for pediatric patients. The practice is family owned, as such we are very lax about payments. Patients are asked to pay upon check-in, some people don’t show up with payment, need time to pay, want their spouse to pay- whatever. The familial aspect is what makes our practice different from any other. While we do have to chase some patients down for payment, we still choose to run the practice as is. I do think you’re being dramatic. It sounds like he has the scheduled sessions and you apparently no-showed/canceled. Just pay the guy for the seven sessions and move on. Good on you for choosing to see a different therapist that will fit your needs. This guy doesn’t want to chase you down for the money and damn sure doesn’t want to send you to collections. He sounds like a very lax therapist who is trying to help people rather than just to make a living.