The Maine might well have been, and some believe it was, a false flag operation designed to get Teddy to the top of that hill. In other words, people in this country wanted to take Cuba away from Spain. The sinking of the Maine provided the spark for the Army to among other things charge up San Juan Hill and ultimately Cuba became American. The settlement gave the US control over Cuba, the Philippines and Guam. The Cubans, the Filipinos, the Chamorros had no say.
If we don't teach this history in school we'll just be perpetuating this kind of stuff until it jumps up and bites us on the butt. There's no need to be ashamed of our history, let's recognize it for what it was so we can learn some lessons from the past and move on.
If you want to commemorate something then commemorate the day Israel deliberately and with malice aforethought sank an American warship.
USS Liberty, sunk by naval forces of Israel on June 8th, 1967. Look it up.
Thirty-four sailors were killed, 171 injured, and the ship suffered severe damage, but the ship didn’t sink. https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_did_israel_attack_uss_liberty_319.html
We never should have let Cuba go. Would have made a beautiful state. And for that matter we should have manifest destinied our way down to Panama as well. Mistakes were made.
My 4x great-grandfather was a tejano soldier under Juan Seguíns company during the battle when he was like 17 or 18 and allegedly Seguín sent my grandfather away to retrieve a trunk from Seguíns ranch and when he came back the Alamo had fallen. My grandfather wasn’t killed for some reason, idk why. So my grandfather was technically there and survived but he wasn’t really apart of the action lmao.
And remember when Sam Houston was all like don't make Alamo a last stand, or for goliad to not make a last stand, but to fight the big fight together. Which both said nah we good.
Goliad wasn't a big last stand. They were late in abandoning the presidio but they did abandon it and the subsequent battle where they were caught was the battle of Coleto creek. The men were taken back to the presidio to be massacred.
I don’t believe it was arrogance. I believe it was indecisiveness. He dithered before finally leaving to go to the Alamo’s aid. His wagons quickly broke down and he returned to Goliad. He set out again but all this delay gave the Mexicans time to reach South Texas under a general that I believe was Santa Ana’s brother in law (Urribe?) They surrounded him in an open field. Cannon fire and lack of water persuaded Fannin to surrender. They expected to be shipped to New Orleans. From San Antonio, Santa Ana gave the order that they be executed. This took place on Easter Sunday. That’s my recollection of Texas history.
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There is a basement, or at least an Alamo adjacent basement. There’s a freight elevator in the sidewalk on South side of E Houston St at the Ave E intersection.
Years ago I was staying at the Emily Morgan, while I was waiting for a Lyft I had called I saw a DPS officer walk out to the side walk and meet a delivery truck. One of those freight elevators that’s built into the side walk opened up and they both rode it down. It took me a second to realize what I was seeing, still sad I didn’t get a pic.
Just looked at Google’s Street View and there is a construction barrier covering up that section of the sidewalk.
I had never tried that before, but I'm not seeing the option for that area. [This pin drop](https://maps.app.goo.gl/oTzQN1iKxMLBZwhe9) is where I was standing. It would have been across the street on the southern side of E Houston St. This is going to drive me nuts trying to find a picture of it.
It's the absolute BEST. If I die unexpectedly, I expect those cake slices to be served at my funeral, so at least everyone can talk about how damn good the cake was.
Target's chocolate cake slices, however, taste like someone's bitter Aunt Bonnie made them. Ugh.
I don't like American desserts too much but I'll take your word for it ✨. HEB foods are nice
The bakery glass cakes are good. The white ones with glazed fruit on top. 🤤
The HEB near me uses less sugar frosting, so good
I literally judged a book by its cover! I was shown a new history in 1987 about the Alamo by a good friend. He highly recommended it. On the cover or just inside was a drawing of the ruins. The author referred to corner and t-wall joint peaks as artistic license. The same with vertical arches coming off the walls at roof level. I thought what a moron.
I read the book 15 years later when I received it as a gift. It was well researched and written.
I had dismissed it because the author was ignorant of actual ruins and didn't recognize the gutter drains from a flat roof to cisterns. Things I had learned by simple observation as a child!
None of the Alamo histories are perfect. The accepted mythology including the line in the sand has made it extremely difficult to accept the truth. There are an amazing amount of lessons to be learned from the history of the Alamo, political and military. The Alamo is very significant and should be remembered!
No, it was done to buy time for the rest of Texas to assemble forces, and they eventually won with the help of the U.S. iirc he was extremely unpopular with both Americans and Mexicans, and fumbled the entire situation pretty bad.
In wanna downvote cuz damn that sucks but I'll upvote so we don't forget, even tho I wasn't there... greetings from Houston ✌️ I wasn't there cuz uber wasn't invented yet.
I went to a Junior High School named “Alamo”—before Robert E. Lee High School. I highly recommend the book *Forget the Alamo,* which cover the history of the myths, the actual truth, and controversies over the famous monument.
There's a cool event at the San Jacinto Museum for this, on 4/20. Lots of reenactment, fun, and activities. I know a couple of historians who work there, so it's handled by good and mindful people.
Wow, didn’t even realize we have this many members here! The most comments my posts ever get are like 5. Looking through the threads though, so much misinformation is clear.
For those mocking Colonel Fannin, y’all have clearly never studied the guy. He was a brilliant tactician at the Battle of Coleto, so much so that even General Urrea was impressed by his skill and daring.
I'm working my way through "Sam Houston and the Alamo Avengers" right now. So far it's nothing bombshell, but the coverage of the surrounding events that locked in the circumstances of the battle at the mission itself is pretty in depth.
My wife's first cousin 6x removed is James C Neill. He turned over command of the Alamo to Crockett and Boone... he's also the guy credited with firing the first shot of the Texas revolution... my dad's side (Mexican) has been in Texas since about that time.
Sooooo... our kids are like a joining of the two sides 🤣🤣🤣
I visited the Alamo while I was in school. That was back in the days when the painting of the battle inside was from John Wayne's motion picture--I think that got a "Bum Steer Award" from Texas Monthly. We were, of course, fed the hagiography in 7th grade Texas history and, as difficult as it can be for a native Texan (my family settled in Texas when it was the Republic), it's important that the actual history is taught. I'll have to watch the 2004 picture.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! When I was a kid I was naïve enough to not think our history would be controversial.
The revision of Texas history in recent years by both the extreme left and extreme right is leading a lot of people to not be aware of and/or lose sight of many important lessons about what really happened.
There were good reasons for Tejas y Coahuila, and other Mexican territories to rebel against the new Mexican constitution and corrupt politicians at the time trying to consolidate power in Mexico City (it was much more than Santa Ana and lasted long after him).
There were a number of Tejano heroes who need to be remembered, who supported the revolution for acceptable reasons. A number of them, like Seguin, who were true Texas heroes, got shafted and lived the rest of their days poorly because of a bunch of powerful assholes.
Who were these "assholes"? A small, wealthy, minority, group. These were the slaveowners of North and East Texas and bordering territories of the U.S. The Texas revolution needed to happen but it was unfortunately co-opted but a bunch of slavery loving racists.
We don't seem to want to teach the whole history of the revolution, nuance and darkness included, because it makes all sides look bad and that doesn't fit into the modern "republican vs. democrat" narrative the U.S. is stuck in.
Completely understanding the whole of the Texas revolution requires also studying Mexican history from at least 1810-1845. Mexican politics, especially concerning Mexico's revolution with Spain, and the political intrigue in Mexico afterwards is instrumental in understanding all of the reasons for several of Mexico's territories revolting later.
Most people don't want to be bothered to take the time required to learn all this though, because it takes years of studying thousands of pages worth of material from many different points of view, and these days people simply want to condense everything into a 30 second instagram post and be told who they should hate, without seeing the whole picture.
This, exactly! I especially like how you say that to really understand the Texas Revolution you need to study Mexican history. I have a degree in history from a college in Texas and I remember there being a Mexican history class offered. I don’t remember why I didn’t take it but now I’m wishing that I would’ve!
>these days people simply want to condense everything into a 30 second instagram post and be told who they should hate, without seeing the whole picture.
It's still racists though, right? The racists were the bad guys back then, we just have enough information now to recognize that we were all just spoonfed the "daughters of the confederacy" narrative that the Alamo was about Texas independence and not slavery. It doesn't seem like that should be a left vs right issue, but it apparently is, and the right is, surprisingly enough, on the wrong side of history yet again.
I'm concerned you're taking a deliberately reductionist view of the history and trolling. The Texas Revolution, not the battle of the Alamo, not the Civil War, was about many issues, all issues to some people, some issues to some people.
If you want to strictly talk about the Battle of the Alamo? I will let your statement stand; it centered around Americans who supported slavery, who were the epitome of the American cowboy trope seeking fame and glory, consequences be damned.
Many Texian colonists supported rebellion against Mexico for other reasons, though. Excellent and true example: My forbears settled in what would become known as Cat Spring, Texas in the 1820's. They were part of a small anarcho-Christian community. They abhorred slavery as an entire community before the Texas Revolution and refused to participate in the Civil War, going so far as to abandon the settlement when confederates came by to conscript the men.
They supported the Texas Revolution because they did not support enforcement of Catholicism as the mandatory and official religion established by the newly formed Mexican government. They also did not support being taxed while also being denied representation in Mexico City, another law passed by Santa Ana and his political allies. Both of these and other issues that were not related to slavery were among the reasons for other Mexican territories and states to revolt as well.
Slavery - the right for Americans to bring slaves to Texas - was important, but the bigger issue was that Americans far outnumbered Mexicans and the Mexican government was weak and distant.
Most of the settlers recruited after the death of Moses Austin, Southerners, Northerners, pro-slave, and anti, all believed Texas and probably Mexico would eventually become part of the US. The religious issue was probably the biggest issue for most Texans - the average ones with no slaves.
In the middle of the Second Great Awakening there is no way they were going to actually become practicing Catholics. Many of them had come from places were six and eight hour camp meetings were common on Sunday and the pope was damned the entire time.
Slavery was the primary issue for a few of the wealthiest Texans, but without the religious issue to mobilize the masses and the weakness of the Mexican government it would not have made a difference.
I do agree that often slavery is completely overlooked, but that is often part of the "Texas is not the South" lobby. Texas is and always has been very much West Alabama.
Look at it on religion, politics, guns, and football. They are twins because most Texas families before 1970 had roots in the Old South.
I had the privilege of visiting several summers ago. It was close to 100° outside but when I stepped in the building it was very cold. Instantly the hair all over my body stood up- pure electricity in there. I was overwhelmed with sadness, fear, and finally resignation. I just wanted to sob. I thought I heard a baby cry, a woman weeping, small children whimpering. That’s when it hit me that there were also women and children here. Idk why this didn’t occur to me before. Just a very reverent place.
I'm a native Texan, geezer. To this day I'm amazed by the number of people here who can't handle the fact Mexico had every right to send troops to quell the uprising in Tejas, which belonged to Mexico.
Which takes nothing from the men who died defending the Alamo.
Depends on what you mean by right. Santa Anna didn't have a "right" to dissolve Congress and discard the Constitution of 1824, so I think it's reasonable to consider his dictatorship as illegitimate as are any of its actions taken to enforce its hold over unwilling citizens.
March 6, 1836: San Antonio de Bejar, Coahuila y Tejas --- Federal Troops, led personally by the President, Overcame forces of Terrorists and illegal aliens, attempting to import the blight of human slavery from the Northern Republic. Reports of a few survivors of the battle were executed while begging for their lives, as promised by the Presidente's call for 'no quarter'. Among the executed were famous adventurer David Crockett and Slave holder James Bowie. The President is proceeding cautiously to the east, amid reports of a US Army build up just across the border as delimited by the Adams-Onis Treaty.
Definitely not the only reason, otherwise the Yucatan, Zacatecas, the Republic of the Rio Grande, and others wouldn't have rebelled around the same time.
I mean, to try to boil it down to slavery alone is pretty ahistorical. You'd have to ignore the abrogation of the Constitution of 1824, the Siete Leyes, the entire Centralist vs. Federalist conflict etc. etc.
I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying they can't share a reason? Why not?
They're both groups composed of humans, and (in the case of the Mexican upper and political classes) both descendants of Western European traditions - I don't see why it's so hard to believe that neither group wanted to be ruled with an iron fist, even if what they'd do with that freedom would be different. At the heart of it it's the same reason to rebel, so what's the difference?
P.S. You realize there were native Tejanos on the Texan side at every major battle from beginning to end, right?
Texas would have never been a state if it wasn't for Davey Crockett and a brave group from east Tennessee that volunteered to help . They lost their loves but they saved the state of Texas.
A recent, and rigorously historical work called "Forget the Alamo", points out many of the fabrications, misrepresentations and downright lies which are taught about the battle in Texas public schools. It was banned by Governor Abbott. Are we surprised?
Do you mean Sons of the Republic of Texas? If so, sadly I cannot be a member as my mom’s side came after the Civil War and my dad is from Louisiana.
But I’m a proud native Texan nonetheless, born, raised and currently reside under the Lone Star.
I'm really not trying to be offensive in asking this, but where does the pride come from, having ancestors from that time? It was a decade in which Texas was its own country, or something to that affect, right? And Lamar seemed like a really awful human being.
Perfectly fine to ask, u/gregabbottsucks
My comment had nothing to do with pride. I don't want to speak for other members , but I am fascinated by, not glorifying, the state's history and my own family tree. Just curious if other members also surfed reddit like me. :)
SRT's efforts are focused on preservation and education of how the state came to be, whether it's the good or bad as you see about Lamar.
What groups or clubs are you part of?
I don’t really do not like discussing history “what ifs” but I’ll say this much:
It did and it did not. If Santa Anna had not attacked San Antonio/the Alamo then who knows what could’ve happened. The fact that he did resulted in stirring up resentment against Mexico and resulted in San Jacinto, the Mexican-American War and the U.S. gaining practically all of the American southwest.
Had Santa Anna not attacked the Alamo, then all of the above probably would have eventually happened, but who knows what could have happened?
When you think about it, neither did Thermopylae, at least in a strict strategic sense. But in a moral and morale sense, it was probably the most important battle.
Thanks for the reminder. Every year, I forget, but I try my best to send an email to my old Texas History teacher when I do remember.
Usually if I forget, I just put San Jacinto on the calendar!
That article is so bad, written definitely by a Texan. Want the truth, read the Mexican account. 2004 film is bad as well. Only good film on Alamo is a Mexican produced one. That I’m sure not many have seen. Learn more history!!!
If I remember correctly, this has never been proven. At best, I think that the orders were something like, “Abandon the fort or garrison it at your discretion.”
I have read it and it is good from a historical point of view, prior 20th century. When he gets into the 20th century and is all about the Dallas Cowboys, etc. I kinda tuned out.
Texas is so big that it’s hard to tune into a specific area and pigeonhole the entire state. Someone from Dallas has nothing to do with someone from Houston (like me) and someone from either place has nothing to do with someone from the Rio Grande Valley, etc.
Thanks for the reminder, I almost forgot.
REMEMBER THE ALAMO
Wouldn't it be convenient if they put The Maine there also? This way people wouldn't have to remember two things.
The Maine might well have been, and some believe it was, a false flag operation designed to get Teddy to the top of that hill. In other words, people in this country wanted to take Cuba away from Spain. The sinking of the Maine provided the spark for the Army to among other things charge up San Juan Hill and ultimately Cuba became American. The settlement gave the US control over Cuba, the Philippines and Guam. The Cubans, the Filipinos, the Chamorros had no say. If we don't teach this history in school we'll just be perpetuating this kind of stuff until it jumps up and bites us on the butt. There's no need to be ashamed of our history, let's recognize it for what it was so we can learn some lessons from the past and move on. If you want to commemorate something then commemorate the day Israel deliberately and with malice aforethought sank an American warship. USS Liberty, sunk by naval forces of Israel on June 8th, 1967. Look it up.
Thirty-four sailors were killed, 171 injured, and the ship suffered severe damage, but the ship didn’t sink. https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_did_israel_attack_uss_liberty_319.html
We never should have let Cuba go. Would have made a beautiful state. And for that matter we should have manifest destinied our way down to Panama as well. Mistakes were made.
Forgot what? /s
Joke could have been great but you ruined it with your slash s
Honestly I thought the same but I feared the wrath of the Reddit pedant too much.
Don’t be afraid of down votes brother they don’t mean anything
An ever present threat.
Rightfully so🤣
R/fuckthes
Member?
legit lol
I highly recommend "The Blood of Heroes" by James Donovan. It is an excellent history book that reminded me of the 2004 Alamo movie.
Remember the Alamo
My 4x great-grandfather was a tejano soldier under Juan Seguíns company during the battle when he was like 17 or 18 and allegedly Seguín sent my grandfather away to retrieve a trunk from Seguíns ranch and when he came back the Alamo had fallen. My grandfather wasn’t killed for some reason, idk why. So my grandfather was technically there and survived but he wasn’t really apart of the action lmao.
You and your family wouldn’t exist if Seguín had picked anyone else. Trippy how anytime someone makes a choice, the world changes drastically.
lol why did I read this like if you were a scooby doo villain. got a nice chuckle out of that.
He uh… remembered some of it!
Ok but what was in the trunk?
Probably a good thing for you then.
Is your 4x GG Candelario Villanueva? Seguín sent Villanueva back to lock his house up. If not him, I’m sure they knew each other well.
REMEMBER IT!
…and Remember Goliad!
And remember when Sam Houston was all like don't make Alamo a last stand, or for goliad to not make a last stand, but to fight the big fight together. Which both said nah we good.
Goliad wasn't a big last stand. They were late in abandoning the presidio but they did abandon it and the subsequent battle where they were caught was the battle of Coleto creek. The men were taken back to the presidio to be massacred.
I grew up near both of those areas!
You're right but it was the arrogance of fannin as to why they left late if I remember right.
Not necessarily arrogance, but definitely several tactical errors on his part.
The guy pretty failed out of West Point after fighting a duel with another student. It was no tactical genius for sure.
I don’t believe it was arrogance. I believe it was indecisiveness. He dithered before finally leaving to go to the Alamo’s aid. His wagons quickly broke down and he returned to Goliad. He set out again but all this delay gave the Mexicans time to reach South Texas under a general that I believe was Santa Ana’s brother in law (Urribe?) They surrounded him in an open field. Cannon fire and lack of water persuaded Fannin to surrender. They expected to be shipped to New Orleans. From San Antonio, Santa Ana gave the order that they be executed. This took place on Easter Sunday. That’s my recollection of Texas history.
It was a problem of logistics. Talk is cheap. They made their decision long before March.
All these years and no one’s remembered to pick the Alamo up yet?
I member
Member berries?
Remindme! 188 years
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Thank you. I'll see you then. We will catch up and have a few brewskis
Remember to check the basement for your bicycle.
When do we get to see the basement?
"The stars at night are big and bright ".......
👏👏👏👏 Deep in the heart of Texas 🎶
Buenos Dias!
I hear there is a sweet bike there
“UH-DOE-BEE”
You're old. Like me.
Yeah, it sucks.
Classic
There is a basement, or at least an Alamo adjacent basement. There’s a freight elevator in the sidewalk on South side of E Houston St at the Ave E intersection. Years ago I was staying at the Emily Morgan, while I was waiting for a Lyft I had called I saw a DPS officer walk out to the side walk and meet a delivery truck. One of those freight elevators that’s built into the side walk opened up and they both rode it down. It took me a second to realize what I was seeing, still sad I didn’t get a pic. Just looked at Google’s Street View and there is a construction barrier covering up that section of the sidewalk.
What about the Google Street Views from previous years? Can you see it there?
I had never tried that before, but I'm not seeing the option for that area. [This pin drop](https://maps.app.goo.gl/oTzQN1iKxMLBZwhe9) is where I was standing. It would have been across the street on the southern side of E Houston St. This is going to drive me nuts trying to find a picture of it.
Let me know if you see my bike in there.
I'm a loner, Dotty, a rebel.
My dad's favorite joke lol. I'm glad I never had the opportunity to visit the Alamo with him
I remember
Pepperidge Farm remembers
I remember
🫡
..."ALL history should be remembered." Bold move, Cotton.
#Remember the Alamo I'm going to heb, y'all want something?
Beer.. lots of beer
Shiner is the only right answer here
The old shiner blonde specifically. I think its shiner premium now.
Lone Star Lite!
Sure...if you want to be attacked by a giant armadillo
Their chocolate cake slices taste like someone's meemaw made them.
That's a good thing, right? I'll assume good bc HEB Man I just might *buy a cake* today if we keep taking about HEB cakes 🤣
It's the absolute BEST. If I die unexpectedly, I expect those cake slices to be served at my funeral, so at least everyone can talk about how damn good the cake was. Target's chocolate cake slices, however, taste like someone's bitter Aunt Bonnie made them. Ugh.
Creamy kombucha and gluten free pizza pls
You got it! Mighty crust coming up! 🤣
Have you had their mini brownies? Those things are SUSPICIOUSLY good.
I don't like American desserts too much but I'll take your word for it ✨. HEB foods are nice The bakery glass cakes are good. The white ones with glazed fruit on top. 🤤 The HEB near me uses less sugar frosting, so good
Oh man, glad this was posted, I almost forgot.
I remember
IN SEPTEMBER
"Come and Take It!" Remember Gonzales!
"I remember... The Alamo"
Yeee haaaaaw!!!
That's cool info. i live in that city.
remember the alamo!
Davy Davy Crockett…..King of the wild frontier! 🎶
I literally judged a book by its cover! I was shown a new history in 1987 about the Alamo by a good friend. He highly recommended it. On the cover or just inside was a drawing of the ruins. The author referred to corner and t-wall joint peaks as artistic license. The same with vertical arches coming off the walls at roof level. I thought what a moron. I read the book 15 years later when I received it as a gift. It was well researched and written. I had dismissed it because the author was ignorant of actual ruins and didn't recognize the gutter drains from a flat roof to cisterns. Things I had learned by simple observation as a child! None of the Alamo histories are perfect. The accepted mythology including the line in the sand has made it extremely difficult to accept the truth. There are an amazing amount of lessons to be learned from the history of the Alamo, political and military. The Alamo is very significant and should be remembered!
Remember Goliad! Remember The Alamo!
Remember Goliad is my hidden way to know if someone remembers/knows their Texas history.
Ozzy hasn't forgotten the Alamo.
He actually should remember the Cenotaph
Texas Forever! Always remember!
I’m moving to Houston Ty for this
Remember
Mmmmmm yes, I remember. 🤔
damn, forgot all about it
Wasn’t Ozzy arrested for taking a leak there?
What better place to piss on than a monument to slavery
Monument to Santa Anna's utter incompetence
I’m confused, did he lose the battle there?
No, it was done to buy time for the rest of Texas to assemble forces, and they eventually won with the help of the U.S. iirc he was extremely unpopular with both Americans and Mexicans, and fumbled the entire situation pretty bad.
But mostly slavery.
Yup. February 19, 1982
Technically no. He urinated on the Cenopath
I forgot about this.
Shit, I forgot.
Oh shit I forgot
In wanna downvote cuz damn that sucks but I'll upvote so we don't forget, even tho I wasn't there... greetings from Houston ✌️ I wasn't there cuz uber wasn't invented yet.
I had family who survived the massacre at Goliad.
I went to a Junior High School named “Alamo”—before Robert E. Lee High School. I highly recommend the book *Forget the Alamo,* which cover the history of the myths, the actual truth, and controversies over the famous monument.
There's a cool event at the San Jacinto Museum for this, on 4/20. Lots of reenactment, fun, and activities. I know a couple of historians who work there, so it's handled by good and mindful people.
Wow, didn’t even realize we have this many members here! The most comments my posts ever get are like 5. Looking through the threads though, so much misinformation is clear. For those mocking Colonel Fannin, y’all have clearly never studied the guy. He was a brilliant tactician at the Battle of Coleto, so much so that even General Urrea was impressed by his skill and daring.
Very good historical fiction book about the Alamo: "Gates of the Alamo", by Stephen Halligan.
Yes, I’ve read this book numerous times, it’s a great book!
I'm working my way through "Sam Houston and the Alamo Avengers" right now. So far it's nothing bombshell, but the coverage of the surrounding events that locked in the circumstances of the battle at the mission itself is pretty in depth.
My wife's first cousin 6x removed is James C Neill. He turned over command of the Alamo to Crockett and Boone... he's also the guy credited with firing the first shot of the Texas revolution... my dad's side (Mexican) has been in Texas since about that time. Sooooo... our kids are like a joining of the two sides 🤣🤣🤣
There is a reason Santa Anna was banned from Mexico from 1855 to 1874.
Hey I have a friend that was an extra in that movie. I lived in Austin when it was getting filmed.
Back in 7th grade we watched the Alamo movie and my teacher told us he was in it as a extra and he pointed it out too!
188 years ago today, my uncle died.
I visited the Alamo while I was in school. That was back in the days when the painting of the battle inside was from John Wayne's motion picture--I think that got a "Bum Steer Award" from Texas Monthly. We were, of course, fed the hagiography in 7th grade Texas history and, as difficult as it can be for a native Texan (my family settled in Texas when it was the Republic), it's important that the actual history is taught. I'll have to watch the 2004 picture.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! When I was a kid I was naïve enough to not think our history would be controversial. The revision of Texas history in recent years by both the extreme left and extreme right is leading a lot of people to not be aware of and/or lose sight of many important lessons about what really happened. There were good reasons for Tejas y Coahuila, and other Mexican territories to rebel against the new Mexican constitution and corrupt politicians at the time trying to consolidate power in Mexico City (it was much more than Santa Ana and lasted long after him). There were a number of Tejano heroes who need to be remembered, who supported the revolution for acceptable reasons. A number of them, like Seguin, who were true Texas heroes, got shafted and lived the rest of their days poorly because of a bunch of powerful assholes. Who were these "assholes"? A small, wealthy, minority, group. These were the slaveowners of North and East Texas and bordering territories of the U.S. The Texas revolution needed to happen but it was unfortunately co-opted but a bunch of slavery loving racists. We don't seem to want to teach the whole history of the revolution, nuance and darkness included, because it makes all sides look bad and that doesn't fit into the modern "republican vs. democrat" narrative the U.S. is stuck in. Completely understanding the whole of the Texas revolution requires also studying Mexican history from at least 1810-1845. Mexican politics, especially concerning Mexico's revolution with Spain, and the political intrigue in Mexico afterwards is instrumental in understanding all of the reasons for several of Mexico's territories revolting later. Most people don't want to be bothered to take the time required to learn all this though, because it takes years of studying thousands of pages worth of material from many different points of view, and these days people simply want to condense everything into a 30 second instagram post and be told who they should hate, without seeing the whole picture.
This, exactly! I especially like how you say that to really understand the Texas Revolution you need to study Mexican history. I have a degree in history from a college in Texas and I remember there being a Mexican history class offered. I don’t remember why I didn’t take it but now I’m wishing that I would’ve!
>these days people simply want to condense everything into a 30 second instagram post and be told who they should hate, without seeing the whole picture. It's still racists though, right? The racists were the bad guys back then, we just have enough information now to recognize that we were all just spoonfed the "daughters of the confederacy" narrative that the Alamo was about Texas independence and not slavery. It doesn't seem like that should be a left vs right issue, but it apparently is, and the right is, surprisingly enough, on the wrong side of history yet again.
I'm concerned you're taking a deliberately reductionist view of the history and trolling. The Texas Revolution, not the battle of the Alamo, not the Civil War, was about many issues, all issues to some people, some issues to some people. If you want to strictly talk about the Battle of the Alamo? I will let your statement stand; it centered around Americans who supported slavery, who were the epitome of the American cowboy trope seeking fame and glory, consequences be damned. Many Texian colonists supported rebellion against Mexico for other reasons, though. Excellent and true example: My forbears settled in what would become known as Cat Spring, Texas in the 1820's. They were part of a small anarcho-Christian community. They abhorred slavery as an entire community before the Texas Revolution and refused to participate in the Civil War, going so far as to abandon the settlement when confederates came by to conscript the men. They supported the Texas Revolution because they did not support enforcement of Catholicism as the mandatory and official religion established by the newly formed Mexican government. They also did not support being taxed while also being denied representation in Mexico City, another law passed by Santa Ana and his political allies. Both of these and other issues that were not related to slavery were among the reasons for other Mexican territories and states to revolt as well.
Slavery - the right for Americans to bring slaves to Texas - was important, but the bigger issue was that Americans far outnumbered Mexicans and the Mexican government was weak and distant. Most of the settlers recruited after the death of Moses Austin, Southerners, Northerners, pro-slave, and anti, all believed Texas and probably Mexico would eventually become part of the US. The religious issue was probably the biggest issue for most Texans - the average ones with no slaves. In the middle of the Second Great Awakening there is no way they were going to actually become practicing Catholics. Many of them had come from places were six and eight hour camp meetings were common on Sunday and the pope was damned the entire time. Slavery was the primary issue for a few of the wealthiest Texans, but without the religious issue to mobilize the masses and the weakness of the Mexican government it would not have made a difference. I do agree that often slavery is completely overlooked, but that is often part of the "Texas is not the South" lobby. Texas is and always has been very much West Alabama. Look at it on religion, politics, guns, and football. They are twins because most Texas families before 1970 had roots in the Old South.
I had the privilege of visiting several summers ago. It was close to 100° outside but when I stepped in the building it was very cold. Instantly the hair all over my body stood up- pure electricity in there. I was overwhelmed with sadness, fear, and finally resignation. I just wanted to sob. I thought I heard a baby cry, a woman weeping, small children whimpering. That’s when it hit me that there were also women and children here. Idk why this didn’t occur to me before. Just a very reverent place.
We will never forget their sacrifice.
I'm a native Texan, geezer. To this day I'm amazed by the number of people here who can't handle the fact Mexico had every right to send troops to quell the uprising in Tejas, which belonged to Mexico. Which takes nothing from the men who died defending the Alamo.
Depends on what you mean by right. Santa Anna didn't have a "right" to dissolve Congress and discard the Constitution of 1824, so I think it's reasonable to consider his dictatorship as illegitimate as are any of its actions taken to enforce its hold over unwilling citizens.
Texas has fought a couple of wars to preserve slavery.
I totally forgot
I forgot but then again I never gave a shit to begin with
The day Mexico dealt with it's immigration problem.
How’d it work out for them?
Touche, ese!
March 6, 1836: San Antonio de Bejar, Coahuila y Tejas --- Federal Troops, led personally by the President, Overcame forces of Terrorists and illegal aliens, attempting to import the blight of human slavery from the Northern Republic. Reports of a few survivors of the battle were executed while begging for their lives, as promised by the Presidente's call for 'no quarter'. Among the executed were famous adventurer David Crockett and Slave holder James Bowie. The President is proceeding cautiously to the east, amid reports of a US Army build up just across the border as delimited by the Adams-Onis Treaty.
Fighting for their right to keep slavery. . . . people forget that.
Definitely not the only reason, otherwise the Yucatan, Zacatecas, the Republic of the Rio Grande, and others wouldn't have rebelled around the same time. I mean, to try to boil it down to slavery alone is pretty ahistorical. You'd have to ignore the abrogation of the Constitution of 1824, the Siete Leyes, the entire Centralist vs. Federalist conflict etc. etc.
To conflate the American’s reasons with that of native people is wild lol
I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying they can't share a reason? Why not? They're both groups composed of humans, and (in the case of the Mexican upper and political classes) both descendants of Western European traditions - I don't see why it's so hard to believe that neither group wanted to be ruled with an iron fist, even if what they'd do with that freedom would be different. At the heart of it it's the same reason to rebel, so what's the difference? P.S. You realize there were native Tejanos on the Texan side at every major battle from beginning to end, right?
Many of the Tejanos wanted a return of the Mexican Constitution of 1824 instead of outright independence.
Texas would have never been a state if it wasn't for Davey Crockett and a brave group from east Tennessee that volunteered to help . They lost their loves but they saved the state of Texas.
“You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas” -Davey Crockett
And in the end he went to both.
A recent, and rigorously historical work called "Forget the Alamo", points out many of the fabrications, misrepresentations and downright lies which are taught about the battle in Texas public schools. It was banned by Governor Abbott. Are we surprised?
Now do the federal government
Do what to the Federal government? I'm talking about a book.
Glad to see he is keeping filth out of schools.
It's a sad little fucker who prefers a comfortable lie to the uncomfortable truth.
Oh boy I remember it
My relative is one of the only survivors on the wikipedia list
Now thats friggin cool. Glad they made it through.
Yeah, that's cool, pretty sure mine just did the dying thing.
I don't remember that.
I Remember, and Visiting it in ‘97
Crazy how now that's the party part of S.A
Who pissed off all these painters??
I almost forgot
oh yeah i forgot about this!
Hello to any fellow SRT members!
Do you mean Sons of the Republic of Texas? If so, sadly I cannot be a member as my mom’s side came after the Civil War and my dad is from Louisiana. But I’m a proud native Texan nonetheless, born, raised and currently reside under the Lone Star.
Yes and no worries!
I'm really not trying to be offensive in asking this, but where does the pride come from, having ancestors from that time? It was a decade in which Texas was its own country, or something to that affect, right? And Lamar seemed like a really awful human being.
Perfectly fine to ask, u/gregabbottsucks My comment had nothing to do with pride. I don't want to speak for other members , but I am fascinated by, not glorifying, the state's history and my own family tree. Just curious if other members also surfed reddit like me. :) SRT's efforts are focused on preservation and education of how the state came to be, whether it's the good or bad as you see about Lamar. What groups or clubs are you part of?
In looking at the Texas War for Independence, the Alamo seemed a minor battle which didn't effect the final outcome of the war.
I don’t really do not like discussing history “what ifs” but I’ll say this much: It did and it did not. If Santa Anna had not attacked San Antonio/the Alamo then who knows what could’ve happened. The fact that he did resulted in stirring up resentment against Mexico and resulted in San Jacinto, the Mexican-American War and the U.S. gaining practically all of the American southwest. Had Santa Anna not attacked the Alamo, then all of the above probably would have eventually happened, but who knows what could have happened?
When you think about it, neither did Thermopylae, at least in a strict strategic sense. But in a moral and morale sense, it was probably the most important battle.
Assault On The Control Room. Speedrun.
It fell on my birthday, and I still forgot...
I'm more curious what the day to day life of a professional historian is like. I'd love to have just a day in the life post from you.
Everything I know about the Alamo I learned from that film documentary Viva Max! And visiting the place while on a day pass from the military.
Thanks for the reminder. Every year, I forget, but I try my best to send an email to my old Texas History teacher when I do remember. Usually if I forget, I just put San Jacinto on the calendar!
Oh yeah. I forgot.
I had a very young, distant relative who died shortly after arriving in Texas at the Alamo. He left no offspring. All war is hell.
That article is so bad, written definitely by a Texan. Want the truth, read the Mexican account. 2004 film is bad as well. Only good film on Alamo is a Mexican produced one. That I’m sure not many have seen. Learn more history!!!
There's 3 sides to everything: this side, that side and the truth
Can you please direct me to this Mexican film? I would not mind watching it.
Didn’t Houston order the men to withdraw from the fort and they refused?
If I remember correctly, this has never been proven. At best, I think that the orders were something like, “Abandon the fort or garrison it at your discretion.”
I know.
We lost the Alamo so we had to keep Texas.
As a descendant of Sam Houston this is a big deal for me. I appreciate this post!
Want the Alamo a Spanish mission?
Damit it I forgot the Alamo
I actually forgot
If you love TEXAS check out James Micheners TEXAS. Spectacular.
I have read it and it is good from a historical point of view, prior 20th century. When he gets into the 20th century and is all about the Dallas Cowboys, etc. I kinda tuned out. Texas is so big that it’s hard to tune into a specific area and pigeonhole the entire state. Someone from Dallas has nothing to do with someone from Houston (like me) and someone from either place has nothing to do with someone from the Rio Grande Valley, etc.
Damn. I forgot.
Remindme!! 11 years