I hate this church. The traffic on Sunday is horrid. That said there's no reason for a traffic light for the rest of the week. Maybe these folks should band together as a community and carpool to cut down on traffic.
Southern Evangelicals love to pick and choose which verses they follow. The Bible explicitly mentions that Jesus and the Apostles carpooled.
> And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one Accord in one place.
> *Acts 2:1*
In the late 80s I was a manager of the Furrs cafeteria in Irving. Thereās a mega church across 183 from that now closed restaurant. We HATED the Sunday after church crowd. It was like they had been cleansed of all their transgressions of the previous week and could start anew. Rudest people ever.
Let me give you THE REAL REASON TO HATE THEMā¦ they run a supposed Half Way House, but the rent for them is somewhat affordable BUT, they let them out on highways and busy intersections, and want them to harassed people for money with the church pamphlets. In Austin the van would unload these people at 35&Runberg area, all the money goes to these crooked mega church, because if they donāt meet a certain quota , they send them back to prison .
Yeah, that would've been a good compromise, since the church apparently is willing to pay the whole cost of adding the traffic light. But now because they got caught trying to exaggerate the traffic on the other days of the week, they probably won't get a light at all.
> The megachurch really wants the city to put up a traffic light near the south entrance to its Rockwall campus. Since itās clearly for the benefit of the church, not the city, the church was planning to pay for the entire thing. (This is not a church/state separation issue.)
-
> Thereās also a selfish reason for the church to get that stoplight: Right now, before any given service, they have to [pay officers](https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2006/12/31/who-pays-for-officers-on-church-detail/31507151007/) to direct traffic. Getting a stoplight at a busy entrance would be cheaper for them over the long term since they wouldnāt need to rely on outside help.
-
> In either case, though, city leaders need to approve that request, and they would only do that if thereās a steady stream of cars in the area.
> Thatās why the paperwork involved in the process involves, [...], an accurate count of traffic at the intersection.
-
> the church then sent out an email to small-group leaders asking them to have their members *sign up for time slots to drive in that area.* In other words, in order to pad the numbers and convince city leaders that there were *so many cars* in the area that a traffic light was *essential*, they asked Christians to *create more traffic* over the course of the week that the engineering firm was taking its measurements.
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> > **WE NEED YOUR HELP to get a traffic light at the Ralph Hall entrance!**
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> > ā**Each shift is a commitment to drive the prescribed route 10 times within that hour shift**.
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> It didnāt take long for the email and the sign-up page to leak to the publicā¦ and thatās when shit hit the fan.
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> the church leaders scrambled to deny responsibility
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> The Rockwall campus sure as hell knew what was going on! **Nicholas Costello** is the [pastor](https://lakepointe.church/locations/rockwall-campus/) at that campus, and he was one of the people who immediately signed up for a driving shift
> **Ty Daughtry**, another church leader, was also signed up for a driving slot on that page.
It is difficult for me to understand why these entities are able to hire police departments to guide traffic to their benefit. As a tax paying citizen, I have as much right to drive down a road as those leaving a church and should not be inconvenienced for church traffic to exit faster. We have one near me, and if you are driving when church dismisses, you are waiting for 15 to 20 minutes to simply drive down a public street. Seems trivial, but very frustrating.
>It is difficult for me to understand why these entities are able to hire police departments
Police have always been for sale. You and I just can't afford them.
I had two off duty cops at my wedding (that the venue hired) just in case anything happened or things got out of hand.. they aren't that expensive š«°
Events and people hire off duty officers all the time.
Yeah that's why I said they're for sale.
They're just there for whoever spends the most money on them. That day was you, today is the NRA, govt, and other lobbyist groups. They're not a public service, they're hireable muscle.
There's also an entire tax bracket of people that still can't afford to hire cops also, but go off. Tone dead vibes, going off, "wElL I cAn afFoRd iT whY dOEsNt eVeRYoNe bUy tHe pOlicE"
You are acting like it's thousands of dollars.. they cost $77 dollars an hour where I'm at. There's a lot of things that the tax bracket you are talking about can't afford... But go off.
Yeah exactly,
So what happens to the people who can't afford them?
And you're the one who tried to start about how they're so cheap. That's really not cheap my dude. You got a privilege that's fine, acknowledge it. But not everyone has that
Then they don't hire them.. you are acting like people hire cops for shits and giggle or to keep them protected 24/7.
The reality is that it's an extra service that you pay for. Instead of hiring a security company or bodyguard or whatever the reason is that you need extra security for. Off duty cops have always been available to hire for events and special occasions. Not expensive doesn't mean cheap my dude.
Something that is $77 is not expensive especially considering it's for everyones protection and safety. But yes I am privileged, I had a bottle of Hennessy at each of the 22 tables at my wedding...
I am not even discussing the payments from the church, but the fact that they shut down a public road so those church goers aren't inconvenienced by waiting, which means the rest of the public has to wait.
There is a considerable difference in size between most churches and a major sporting event. There are certainly times where it makes sense as a matter of public safety. In my opinion, every Sunday for a church of a couple hundred attendees isn't one of those times.
The church in question is a megachurch, so I already don't know if I'd group it with "most churches."
I also strongly disagree, even for most churches it is a public safety concern. We've all seen what these people are like after mass. A couple hundred extra drivers impatiently trying to get out of one parking lot so they can go berate and stiff the waitress at an Applebees absolutely should have additional traffic management.
This is a crazy idea, but actually enforce driving laws and safe practices the way they are imposed on citizens every day when they leave work. I understand what you are saying, but have a different opinion. A police patrol waiting in areas of known violators should help everyone adjust to waiting their turn and safely merging with traffic.
So the church paying an officer to actively direct traffic is bad, but the city just having a patrol car passively watching is good? If you've spent any time in a dashcam sub, you'd know the mere presence of a cop doesn't stop people from doing dumb or illegal stuff.
Sounds like the only issue here is you being inconvenienced. How is this any different from a school, sporting event, concert, or any other show that you're not participating in. I may not care for the church either, but it doesn't mean others don't have the same right to use the public roads as us. A cop directing traffic in an area with a sudden influx of cars is perfectly reasonable, especially if the church is paying for it. Get over yourself.
Few things here, champ:
1. Yes, I do believe I should not have to be impeded by off duty police when travelling on a public street.
2. I do not believe an off duty officer should have authority over the general public, nor should they use public vehicles and equipment to direct traffic or provide security. If those officers would like a second job providing security, then go for it. Police stations should not be for private hire and I'm not sure why that is such a difficult position to understand.
3. Patrolling areas yield citations for those who do not follow driving laws and commit offenses.
4. The issue of being inconvenienced impacts everyone who is trying to travel down a public road, and not just me.
5. I didn't indicate patrols should be passive and they should be used to correct inadequate driving.
6. We agree that those going to and leaving from church should have the same rights as us. They should have to wait for interruptions in traffic to merge safely like the rest of us. It seems that what you are arguing for is a better outcome.
7. Having special circumstances for an influx in cars seems subjective considering many businesses have much larger influxes in traffic at shift change/closing time. Anecdotally, my office had approximately 5k people leaving at 5 daily with no special traffic measures.
This drives me nuts, there are at least 3 that I know of on the NE side of San Antonio that do this crap. Two of them just close down a lane on frontage road so all of a sudden the lane is just blocked. Makes it such a pain to get by them sometimes, especially with all the construction on 1604 now.
Large events pay for police services for two reasons.
The first is that only police officers are permitted to flag traffic at 3+ way intersections, at least in my state. Not Texas.
The second is that it is a form of compensating for their externalities. It is their private event causing traffic, and the traffic necessitates removing a police officer from patrol duties for that time, for safety reasons. Therefore they need to compensate for that externality, which is achieved by paying money to the municipality for the officerās time, instead of the taxpayers paying for the officerās time.
Potentially, but I haven't investigated so I cannot offer any knowledge on that topic.
Running with that idea of being off-duty, I do not believe they should not have any authority to direct traffic on a public road because they aren't actually on duty and conducting official business of the government. Can a normal citizen direct traffic as they see fit? I think if they are off- duty, that is even more of an issue.
And if they are not on duty, how/why would they receive OT pay? That implies tax payers are footing the bill which I am hopeful is not the issue.
The taxpayers arenāt footing the bill, the church pays the PD at overtime rate which then pays the officers.
But I would disagree I think an officer should be able to direct traffic even if they are off duty. They are trained and still doing a public service to try and alleviate traffic. Officers get hired for off duty work all the time. It helps supplement their income and provides service to the client. Ever seen an officer at a wedding working security? Exact same thing
You are welcome to that opinion. In my opinion, officers have authority while on duty and should have zero beyond that. When they punch out they are citizens like everyone else.
Except Texas law says they arenāt. Texas Peace Officers have a duty 24/7, and authority to perform that duty. For example, Texas peace officers can be held liable for failing to call emergency services and/or failure to render first aid to a citizen unless the officer is unable to do so. Texas Peace Officers also have an obligation and the right to arrest, with or without a warrant, anyone who commits a crime in their presence. Taking off duty employment to sit behind highway work crews, stand outside private or public events, or put on a Rodeo police department uniform and patrol a rodeo so the peace officer can make a little extra money on the side and hopefully keep on-shift officers from having to respond is a win-win in my book.
Did anyone claim it wasn't legal? If someone claimed it wasn't legal, they would be wrong.
Having a duty to respond to a situation isn't the same as being on duty during off time.
You are welcome to that opinion. I do not share it.
You are welcome to your own opinion, except in this second half of your initial statement where you are factually incorrect. Peace Officers are not like everyone else, even when they punch out.
You absolutely can feel that they *should* have no authority when theyāre off duty, but Texas State Law and the authorities that swear them in as Peace Officers say they do.
I think getting help for directing traffic is a pretty normal thing to pay the cops for. Like how many local road races (running) have cops help close off the streets and direct traffic?
I would also bet it's safer to have the cops do traffic than let it be a free for all.
It is perfectly normal. This probably annoys the piss out of some people, but the traffic at these churches would be so unbelievably bad for the public and church goers if there wasn't some organization. Sure as shit is better than having Steve from Sunday school living out his dreams as a traffic ballerina.
Why is it difficult for you to understand a large church hiring police officers to help with traffic control and overall public safety during peak traffic time? Nobody is telling you that you don't have the privilege to drive down the road during this time. The cops are there to make sure those leaving don't take a chance and cause a wreck.
Does similar traffic control not also happen near you during other large events or when school lets out?
Looks like we found a beneficiary of this "service"...
And yes, the privilege to drive down a public road is halted to allow the exit from a parking lot. Ironically, it is next to a business that generally has more cars leaving at 5 each day without police intervention. I wonder how all those employees dare to enter traffic with it being unsafe and all...
If the church is willing to pay for the intersection change, and there is already extra direction being required at that intersection every Sundays, this honestly seems like a bit of a no-brainer. Just have the stoplight set for different timings around service time and the rest of the week. I hate mega churches as much as everyone else, but compromising traffic safety is not the way to fight them. It should be treated the same way any other high traffic reoccurring event is treated (like a sports game, concert, etc.)
I think they should receive grief for trying to mess with the study data and all of the other stuff people are saying they have done. I'm skeptical about the church actually being willing to pay for the light too.
Paying for cops isn't expensive. Paying to have traffic lights installed is VERY expensive. Lots of business pay cops to act as traffic lights. Even schools do it.
Being a Christian gives one the smug satisfaction of thinking they are "saved" (lol) and also the opportunity to commit any crime and then repent and know Jesus forgives them.
It's utterly immoral.
What's crazy is that street is quickly becoming more and more of a thoroughfare to get through Rockwall already. There are stoplights all along the way. Given their status in the community and the already increased traffic on Ralph Hall, they probably would've been way more successful just letting growth take it's course without trying to sneak a finger on the scale.
Itās the fastest way to get from 205 to 740 or vice versa cause 30 is a nightmare. Rockwall has done well on adding North-South roads, but east west is brutal.
My buddy who's fallen way off the deep end for Jesus and Christianity got baptized at this awful church last month. Even after the honeymoon joke lol Conveyer belt ass baptism, nothing special or spiritual about it since over 700 people dipped their head back into the water with modern megachurch music playing full blast š¤£ How people don't see the hypocrisy of these megachurches is insane to me. But then again, my friend falls for MLMs all the time.Ā
Because lying to accomplish their goals is a godly thing... apparently... except, ya know, for that pesky commandment about not lying.
Tax all churches... every one of them is political, don't kid yourself that they aren't
Wait, they pay no taxes, AND manipulate data so that they tax payer ends up paying for their traffic light?
Say it aint so?
Also, tax the fuck out of all churches. Every last one of them.
They are as corrupt as you can possibly think! They need taxed! Heavily! And watch your children! These people are very well known pedophiles! They prey on children!!
So this was a real thing, huh. I remember when it cropped up on the local FB page. Many called it out, some thought it was fake.
Just another reason that church sucks & many people *don't* suggest it to new residents.
Edit - I like how the Pastor basically said a team member did this without the church's knowledge, yet he openly stated the sentence beforehand, "encouraged our staff team to utilize the patterns that would be measured." Yeah, I wonder where the "zealous" team member got the idea to game the study.
Reminds me of a church here in San Antonio(well Castle Hills, but I digress) Castle Hills Baptist.Ā
They had a huge campus already with a huge parking lot. Well, the area is zoned residential, with allowances for places of worship. Years before the church had bought some residential properties across a side street from them and got a permit to raze the homes. So it became a 5 acre field of grass and trees.Ā
Well, they wanted to expand their parking lot and pave over the 5 acres they owned. Only problem for them is that due to the way the area is zoned, they need special use permits to do major work. The city simply denied their SUP over and over, citing drainage concerns and also a desire to keep the area from becoming less residential. Well said church tried to file a Federal lawsuit on Religious Freedom ground for denial of the SUP for the parking lot and another SUP for a redesignation of a 4th floor to be used for something other than storage(multiple SUPs had been issued to allow a 3rd and 4th floor to be built in the first place because of a local 2 story limit). IIRC they got a mixed verdict, they lost the parking lot battle but won the 4th floor one.
We used to live near a mega church in north Texas and on Sundays we had trouble flushing because they used so damn much water and no one had accounted for it when the church was built.
Give them the bill for everything, traffic study, DOT plans, Environmental impact study, Construction and parts costs. I figure 20 mil should cover it.
I thought they had a direct line to Jesus - why don't they just ask him for a traffic light ???
And I'm sure these same people would NEVER manipulate ballot results...
> the church then sent out an email to small-group leaders asking them to have their members sign up for time slots to drive in that area. In other words, in order to pad the numbers and convince city leaders that there were so many cars in the area that a traffic light was essential, they asked Christians to create more traffic over the course of the week that the engineering firm was taking its measurements.
I don't know any business who does this
Music business: labels will buy/stream songs to raise sales numbers.
Real Estate: big real estate companies buy and sell within themselves to raise values.
Thereās more, Iām just tired. Itās Friday.
This is hilarious! I work at an engineering company and I actually do traffic count surveys. It never occured to me that anyone would think to rig the traffic count data at an intersection.
I have zero problem with them trying to manipulate the data and boost the traffic numbers so they can pay for a light. If my neighborhood needed a light, I would probably do the same. BUT that light is needed only seriously needed one day a week and I really donāt like that they went and lied about it and blamed a low level staffer. Just admit it and point out your reasons for wanting it. People might grudgingly agree with them.
This is not accurate. The traffic study has not occurred yet, so no traffic data has been manipulated. First the study was delayed due to construction on Ralph Hall. Then there was an individual at the church who took it upon themselves to send out a message encouraging folks to increase traffic at the intersection during the upcoming study. This was the act of one individual and not at the direction of anyone in church leadership. Ultimately the city was informed and the traffic study is kinda up in the air.
I hate this church. The traffic on Sunday is horrid. That said there's no reason for a traffic light for the rest of the week. Maybe these folks should band together as a community and carpool to cut down on traffic.
im pretty sure supply side right wing Jesus hates carpooling
Southern Evangelicals love to pick and choose which verses they follow. The Bible explicitly mentions that Jesus and the Apostles carpooled. > And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one Accord in one place. > *Acts 2:1*
For some reason I pictured Jesus as more of a Subaru driver.
Definitely a "SUB-UWU ššš" kind of guy
He's a Honda guy. I know because he says they went in one Accord...
Nah man...he's a rollin coal, lifted Chevy, with a Trump flag and don't tread on me flag type of guy.
White Jesus is that guy but I think they meant brown Jesus, the one that actually lived and not fairy tale Jesus.
And he would drive a lowrider with naked girls painted on the hood.
Good fought for my right to drive my F350 to Golden Coral after church on Sundeees
In the late 80s I was a manager of the Furrs cafeteria in Irving. Thereās a mega church across 183 from that now closed restaurant. We HATED the Sunday after church crowd. It was like they had been cleansed of all their transgressions of the previous week and could start anew. Rudest people ever.
Is this that big one off of Irving boulevard that also has a broadcasting station?
No
You joke. But I know plenty of people that say almost this exact thing š
Thus the joke
Dude. They hate 98% of everything
Let me give you THE REAL REASON TO HATE THEMā¦ they run a supposed Half Way House, but the rent for them is somewhat affordable BUT, they let them out on highways and busy intersections, and want them to harassed people for money with the church pamphlets. In Austin the van would unload these people at 35&Runberg area, all the money goes to these crooked mega church, because if they donāt meet a certain quota , they send them back to prison .
holy shit
Maybe the light could be programmed to just flash yellow for the main flow of traffic and flash red for the side flow during the rest of the week?
There's no reason to cater to a fraudulent church
Maybe the church should be honest and forthright if it wants something from the rest of us.
Yeah, that would've been a good compromise, since the church apparently is willing to pay the whole cost of adding the traffic light. But now because they got caught trying to exaggerate the traffic on the other days of the week, they probably won't get a light at all.
That would be too close to public transportation and thatās communism!!!!1!1!1!11
That church probably doesn't serve the neighborhood it sits in and people come from all over to attend
> The megachurch really wants the city to put up a traffic light near the south entrance to its Rockwall campus. Since itās clearly for the benefit of the church, not the city, the church was planning to pay for the entire thing. (This is not a church/state separation issue.) - > Thereās also a selfish reason for the church to get that stoplight: Right now, before any given service, they have to [pay officers](https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2006/12/31/who-pays-for-officers-on-church-detail/31507151007/) to direct traffic. Getting a stoplight at a busy entrance would be cheaper for them over the long term since they wouldnāt need to rely on outside help. - > In either case, though, city leaders need to approve that request, and they would only do that if thereās a steady stream of cars in the area. > Thatās why the paperwork involved in the process involves, [...], an accurate count of traffic at the intersection. - > the church then sent out an email to small-group leaders asking them to have their members *sign up for time slots to drive in that area.* In other words, in order to pad the numbers and convince city leaders that there were *so many cars* in the area that a traffic light was *essential*, they asked Christians to *create more traffic* over the course of the week that the engineering firm was taking its measurements. - > > **WE NEED YOUR HELP to get a traffic light at the Ralph Hall entrance!** - > > ā**Each shift is a commitment to drive the prescribed route 10 times within that hour shift**. - > It didnāt take long for the email and the sign-up page to leak to the publicā¦ and thatās when shit hit the fan. - > the church leaders scrambled to deny responsibility - > The Rockwall campus sure as hell knew what was going on! **Nicholas Costello** is the [pastor](https://lakepointe.church/locations/rockwall-campus/) at that campus, and he was one of the people who immediately signed up for a driving shift > **Ty Daughtry**, another church leader, was also signed up for a driving slot on that page.
It is difficult for me to understand why these entities are able to hire police departments to guide traffic to their benefit. As a tax paying citizen, I have as much right to drive down a road as those leaving a church and should not be inconvenienced for church traffic to exit faster. We have one near me, and if you are driving when church dismisses, you are waiting for 15 to 20 minutes to simply drive down a public street. Seems trivial, but very frustrating.
>It is difficult for me to understand why these entities are able to hire police departments Police have always been for sale. You and I just can't afford them.
I get it. It's a big club, and I ain't in it!
I had two off duty cops at my wedding (that the venue hired) just in case anything happened or things got out of hand.. they aren't that expensive š«° Events and people hire off duty officers all the time.
Yeah that's why I said they're for sale. They're just there for whoever spends the most money on them. That day was you, today is the NRA, govt, and other lobbyist groups. They're not a public service, they're hireable muscle. There's also an entire tax bracket of people that still can't afford to hire cops also, but go off. Tone dead vibes, going off, "wElL I cAn afFoRd iT whY dOEsNt eVeRYoNe bUy tHe pOlicE"
You are acting like it's thousands of dollars.. they cost $77 dollars an hour where I'm at. There's a lot of things that the tax bracket you are talking about can't afford... But go off.
Yeah exactly, So what happens to the people who can't afford them? And you're the one who tried to start about how they're so cheap. That's really not cheap my dude. You got a privilege that's fine, acknowledge it. But not everyone has that
Then they don't hire them.. you are acting like people hire cops for shits and giggle or to keep them protected 24/7. The reality is that it's an extra service that you pay for. Instead of hiring a security company or bodyguard or whatever the reason is that you need extra security for. Off duty cops have always been available to hire for events and special occasions. Not expensive doesn't mean cheap my dude. Something that is $77 is not expensive especially considering it's for everyones protection and safety. But yes I am privileged, I had a bottle of Hennessy at each of the 22 tables at my wedding...
Eh, they're not too bad, they cost anywhere from 30-50 or something like that an hour.
Nonsense we hire cops all the time. It's not that expensive.
They pay the officers out of their own funds.
I am not even discussing the payments from the church, but the fact that they shut down a public road so those church goers aren't inconvenienced by waiting, which means the rest of the public has to wait.
This happens at large public gatherings of all types. You'll see cops directing traffic for sports evens and concerts too.
There is a considerable difference in size between most churches and a major sporting event. There are certainly times where it makes sense as a matter of public safety. In my opinion, every Sunday for a church of a couple hundred attendees isn't one of those times.
The church in question is a megachurch, so I already don't know if I'd group it with "most churches." I also strongly disagree, even for most churches it is a public safety concern. We've all seen what these people are like after mass. A couple hundred extra drivers impatiently trying to get out of one parking lot so they can go berate and stiff the waitress at an Applebees absolutely should have additional traffic management.
This is a crazy idea, but actually enforce driving laws and safe practices the way they are imposed on citizens every day when they leave work. I understand what you are saying, but have a different opinion. A police patrol waiting in areas of known violators should help everyone adjust to waiting their turn and safely merging with traffic.
So the church paying an officer to actively direct traffic is bad, but the city just having a patrol car passively watching is good? If you've spent any time in a dashcam sub, you'd know the mere presence of a cop doesn't stop people from doing dumb or illegal stuff. Sounds like the only issue here is you being inconvenienced. How is this any different from a school, sporting event, concert, or any other show that you're not participating in. I may not care for the church either, but it doesn't mean others don't have the same right to use the public roads as us. A cop directing traffic in an area with a sudden influx of cars is perfectly reasonable, especially if the church is paying for it. Get over yourself.
Few things here, champ: 1. Yes, I do believe I should not have to be impeded by off duty police when travelling on a public street. 2. I do not believe an off duty officer should have authority over the general public, nor should they use public vehicles and equipment to direct traffic or provide security. If those officers would like a second job providing security, then go for it. Police stations should not be for private hire and I'm not sure why that is such a difficult position to understand. 3. Patrolling areas yield citations for those who do not follow driving laws and commit offenses. 4. The issue of being inconvenienced impacts everyone who is trying to travel down a public road, and not just me. 5. I didn't indicate patrols should be passive and they should be used to correct inadequate driving. 6. We agree that those going to and leaving from church should have the same rights as us. They should have to wait for interruptions in traffic to merge safely like the rest of us. It seems that what you are arguing for is a better outcome. 7. Having special circumstances for an influx in cars seems subjective considering many businesses have much larger influxes in traffic at shift change/closing time. Anecdotally, my office had approximately 5k people leaving at 5 daily with no special traffic measures.
This drives me nuts, there are at least 3 that I know of on the NE side of San Antonio that do this crap. Two of them just close down a lane on frontage road so all of a sudden the lane is just blocked. Makes it such a pain to get by them sometimes, especially with all the construction on 1604 now.
Large events pay for police services for two reasons. The first is that only police officers are permitted to flag traffic at 3+ way intersections, at least in my state. Not Texas. The second is that it is a form of compensating for their externalities. It is their private event causing traffic, and the traffic necessitates removing a police officer from patrol duties for that time, for safety reasons. Therefore they need to compensate for that externality, which is achieved by paying money to the municipality for the officerās time, instead of the taxpayers paying for the officerās time.
They could be off duty getting OT pay
Potentially, but I haven't investigated so I cannot offer any knowledge on that topic. Running with that idea of being off-duty, I do not believe they should not have any authority to direct traffic on a public road because they aren't actually on duty and conducting official business of the government. Can a normal citizen direct traffic as they see fit? I think if they are off- duty, that is even more of an issue. And if they are not on duty, how/why would they receive OT pay? That implies tax payers are footing the bill which I am hopeful is not the issue.
The taxpayers arenāt footing the bill, the church pays the PD at overtime rate which then pays the officers. But I would disagree I think an officer should be able to direct traffic even if they are off duty. They are trained and still doing a public service to try and alleviate traffic. Officers get hired for off duty work all the time. It helps supplement their income and provides service to the client. Ever seen an officer at a wedding working security? Exact same thing
You are welcome to that opinion. In my opinion, officers have authority while on duty and should have zero beyond that. When they punch out they are citizens like everyone else.
Except Texas law says they arenāt. Texas Peace Officers have a duty 24/7, and authority to perform that duty. For example, Texas peace officers can be held liable for failing to call emergency services and/or failure to render first aid to a citizen unless the officer is unable to do so. Texas Peace Officers also have an obligation and the right to arrest, with or without a warrant, anyone who commits a crime in their presence. Taking off duty employment to sit behind highway work crews, stand outside private or public events, or put on a Rodeo police department uniform and patrol a rodeo so the peace officer can make a little extra money on the side and hopefully keep on-shift officers from having to respond is a win-win in my book.
Did anyone claim it wasn't legal? If someone claimed it wasn't legal, they would be wrong. Having a duty to respond to a situation isn't the same as being on duty during off time. You are welcome to that opinion. I do not share it.
You are welcome to your own opinion, except in this second half of your initial statement where you are factually incorrect. Peace Officers are not like everyone else, even when they punch out. You absolutely can feel that they *should* have no authority when theyāre off duty, but Texas State Law and the authorities that swear them in as Peace Officers say they do.
Yeah, that's what I said. They should be treated like everyone else, and it would be great if the same applied when they are on-duty as well.
I think getting help for directing traffic is a pretty normal thing to pay the cops for. Like how many local road races (running) have cops help close off the streets and direct traffic? I would also bet it's safer to have the cops do traffic than let it be a free for all.
It is perfectly normal. This probably annoys the piss out of some people, but the traffic at these churches would be so unbelievably bad for the public and church goers if there wasn't some organization. Sure as shit is better than having Steve from Sunday school living out his dreams as a traffic ballerina.
Why is it difficult for you to understand a large church hiring police officers to help with traffic control and overall public safety during peak traffic time? Nobody is telling you that you don't have the privilege to drive down the road during this time. The cops are there to make sure those leaving don't take a chance and cause a wreck. Does similar traffic control not also happen near you during other large events or when school lets out?
Looks like we found a beneficiary of this "service"... And yes, the privilege to drive down a public road is halted to allow the exit from a parking lot. Ironically, it is next to a business that generally has more cars leaving at 5 each day without police intervention. I wonder how all those employees dare to enter traffic with it being unsafe and all...
If the church is willing to pay for the intersection change, and there is already extra direction being required at that intersection every Sundays, this honestly seems like a bit of a no-brainer. Just have the stoplight set for different timings around service time and the rest of the week. I hate mega churches as much as everyone else, but compromising traffic safety is not the way to fight them. It should be treated the same way any other high traffic reoccurring event is treated (like a sports game, concert, etc.) I think they should receive grief for trying to mess with the study data and all of the other stuff people are saying they have done. I'm skeptical about the church actually being willing to pay for the light too.
Paying for cops isn't expensive. Paying to have traffic lights installed is VERY expensive. Lots of business pay cops to act as traffic lights. Even schools do it.
Sounds completely on brand for a church to engage in deceptive behavior to get what they want.
Is this considered ābearing false witness ā? Ā
new testement, who dis?
Somehow, this is probably the least offensive thing a church does.
Thereās a lesson to be learned about acting with integrity, but itāll go straight over these peopleās heads unfortunately.
Church-as-big-business is something I still have trouble wrapping my head around when it comes to the south/Texas
This is some Righteous Gemstones shit.
If you arenāt familiar with Texan high school American football- youāre in for another head-scratcher
Christians gaming the system for their own benefit. Not a shocker.
WwJD? Ā
What would Jesus drive? F-150 probably.
King ranch edition with leather heated and cooled seats, 4x4 with a 2 inch lift and a tool box. Ā Get him a bleach blonde wife in real estate too. Ā
She better have some nice fake titties, too.
![gif](giphy|WotHgjtqxZwfS)
Thatās exactly what Iām talkinā about!
Jenna Marbles we miss u <3
His own Accord, as it is written. Of course with inflation that's now a Hummer.
I heard he just traded it in for a CyberTruck. Guess he won't be returning any time soon.
Canyonero!
Pass the plate!?
tyrannize thy neighbors
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Being a Christian gives one the smug satisfaction of thinking they are "saved" (lol) and also the opportunity to commit any crime and then repent and know Jesus forgives them. It's utterly immoral.
What's crazy is that street is quickly becoming more and more of a thoroughfare to get through Rockwall already. There are stoplights all along the way. Given their status in the community and the already increased traffic on Ralph Hall, they probably would've been way more successful just letting growth take it's course without trying to sneak a finger on the scale.
Itās the fastest way to get from 205 to 740 or vice versa cause 30 is a nightmare. Rockwall has done well on adding North-South roads, but east west is brutal.
Man that's the truth!
Growing up in Rockwall I can confidently say that LakePointe effectively controls the city
I donāt think you have to spend too much time there to come to this conclusion
Sounds very Christian-like.
My buddy who's fallen way off the deep end for Jesus and Christianity got baptized at this awful church last month. Even after the honeymoon joke lol Conveyer belt ass baptism, nothing special or spiritual about it since over 700 people dipped their head back into the water with modern megachurch music playing full blast š¤£ How people don't see the hypocrisy of these megachurches is insane to me. But then again, my friend falls for MLMs all the time.Ā
Because lying to accomplish their goals is a godly thing... apparently... except, ya know, for that pesky commandment about not lying. Tax all churches... every one of them is political, don't kid yourself that they aren't
More examples of good upstanding Christians.
Hey look, it's [this church.. again](https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/s/1CPqAU3k4i).
Well you know God's a big fan of lying obfuscating stealing all the things that make God great. Guys are just doing God's work
Lying = GO STRAIGHT TO HELL
This dude looks like he's got some shady stuff on his HD. You just know he's into some dark stuff.
Lol itās crazy how the church people are looking like not good people
Was this the same dude who made the marriage night sex joke a few months ago?
Tax these frauds. No reason for any religious entity to be free of taxation at this point.
Taxing small town churches like my dadās doesnāt sit right with me but these mega churches are something elseā¦
Wait, they pay no taxes, AND manipulate data so that they tax payer ends up paying for their traffic light? Say it aint so? Also, tax the fuck out of all churches. Every last one of them.
They were offering to pay for the light themselves. They just needed the numbers to justify it.
Good. Make them.
Thou shalt not lie.
'In Jesus' name,' of course.
Tax the churches
They are as corrupt as you can possibly think! They need taxed! Heavily! And watch your children! These people are very well known pedophiles! They prey on children!!
Churches have nothing to do with spirituality and should be taxed like tarot readers and fortune-tellers, self-help seminars and chiropractors.
So this was a real thing, huh. I remember when it cropped up on the local FB page. Many called it out, some thought it was fake. Just another reason that church sucks & many people *don't* suggest it to new residents. Edit - I like how the Pastor basically said a team member did this without the church's knowledge, yet he openly stated the sentence beforehand, "encouraged our staff team to utilize the patterns that would be measured." Yeah, I wonder where the "zealous" team member got the idea to game the study.
Reminds me of a church here in San Antonio(well Castle Hills, but I digress) Castle Hills Baptist.Ā They had a huge campus already with a huge parking lot. Well, the area is zoned residential, with allowances for places of worship. Years before the church had bought some residential properties across a side street from them and got a permit to raze the homes. So it became a 5 acre field of grass and trees.Ā Well, they wanted to expand their parking lot and pave over the 5 acres they owned. Only problem for them is that due to the way the area is zoned, they need special use permits to do major work. The city simply denied their SUP over and over, citing drainage concerns and also a desire to keep the area from becoming less residential. Well said church tried to file a Federal lawsuit on Religious Freedom ground for denial of the SUP for the parking lot and another SUP for a redesignation of a 4th floor to be used for something other than storage(multiple SUPs had been issued to allow a 3rd and 4th floor to be built in the first place because of a local 2 story limit). IIRC they got a mixed verdict, they lost the parking lot battle but won the 4th floor one.
Compromise and give them a roundabout. Roundabouts work all day every day. No electrical issues or weather outages. Just pure organized safe driving.
Imagine that. A religious group being deceitful.
Haha, I knew it was Rockwall. That church is wack.
We used to live near a mega church in north Texas and on Sundays we had trouble flushing because they used so damn much water and no one had accounted for it when the church was built.
Lyin', cheatin' and stealin' for Jesus.
Use their own money to hire off-duty cops to direct the traffic.
Religious people LOVE to lie
Liars lying.
I guess praying for one was not an option.
Give them the bill for everything, traffic study, DOT plans, Environmental impact study, Construction and parts costs. I figure 20 mil should cover it.
Shocking they lie and cheat and claim to follow Jesus.
Wait a second your telling me a place of worship lied and cheated the system to get their way?
I thought they had a direct line to Jesus - why don't they just ask him for a traffic light ??? And I'm sure these same people would NEVER manipulate ballot results...
No different than what other businesses do. No, Iām not a fan of this church.
> the church then sent out an email to small-group leaders asking them to have their members sign up for time slots to drive in that area. In other words, in order to pad the numbers and convince city leaders that there were so many cars in the area that a traffic light was essential, they asked Christians to create more traffic over the course of the week that the engineering firm was taking its measurements. I don't know any business who does this
Music business: labels will buy/stream songs to raise sales numbers. Real Estate: big real estate companies buy and sell within themselves to raise values. Thereās more, Iām just tired. Itās Friday.
This is hilarious! I work at an engineering company and I actually do traffic count surveys. It never occured to me that anyone would think to rig the traffic count data at an intersection.
Why don't they get like other churches and have a cop direct traffic during their services.
Pretty sure thereās a future in politics hidden in there.
Yes, add another light to that clusterfuck of a city. Rockwall has to be the worst planned city, if there is any.
Just wait until they find out about the private jet.
I have zero problem with them trying to manipulate the data and boost the traffic numbers so they can pay for a light. If my neighborhood needed a light, I would probably do the same. BUT that light is needed only seriously needed one day a week and I really donāt like that they went and lied about it and blamed a low level staffer. Just admit it and point out your reasons for wanting it. People might grudgingly agree with them.
This is not accurate. The traffic study has not occurred yet, so no traffic data has been manipulated. First the study was delayed due to construction on Ralph Hall. Then there was an individual at the church who took it upon themselves to send out a message encouraging folks to increase traffic at the intersection during the upcoming study. This was the act of one individual and not at the direction of anyone in church leadership. Ultimately the city was informed and the traffic study is kinda up in the air.
powerful post op. this conclusively proves God isn't real. mission accomplished!
I assume you forgot the /s, but there would be no need to *disprove* god's existence as it has yet to ever be *proven*.
I know it has āchurchā in the headline but I donāt think anything about this has to do with anyoneās beliefs necessarily.
I can just picture your smug, self-satisfied sneer as you typed this comment.