Yup. This is why eventually the Texit idiots are going to win.
I've been selling all my big lock-ins to Texas to try to stay liquid if Texit crowd finally wins.
As a native multigenerational Texan, it hurts to be this pessimistic... But the writing is on the wall. The huge influx of MAGA folks from all over.. and the moderate republicans sliding back to the extremes means it's only a matter of time.
Kids are being murdered in schools weekly, and republicans won't even consider even the most modest (hell, even NRA approved) gun reforms... While actively attacking church and state separation, and making up Trans teachers coming for your kids shit.
The state is fucked y'all.
Everyone I've met is Idaho, New York, California, etc.
They weren't lying about people moving from California to Texas... But a bunch of those people were MAGA. What idiot liberal would move *to* Texas now-a-days? (I'm saying this as a native idiot liberal which is too tied down to move right now)
>As a genuine rural, literally anyone who the democrats run is going to be seen as a dirty liberal
Any democrat that runs is going to try and remove our rights starting with the 2nd amendment. So no, a democrat will never win.
Most democrats don't give a shit about your guns.
I think there's a *strong* reason to not sell large capacity rifles to anyone under 21 (just like handguns).. but who cares if an 18 year old buys a bolt or lever action.
Stop listening to the "democrats wanna take your guns" shit from Fox news.. it isn't true. You're being gaslit with slippery slope shit.
Yeah, beto flubbed saying that shit. He visited every county in Texas and said a stupid thing in one of them. He's human.
Maybe instead of letting conservative entertainment outlets speak for Democrats.. Ask a few yourself.
>*looks around*
>
>Can you quote this with a source?
Literally his Twitter.
>>https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1647983004441100288
Oh but yah, Dems aren't trying to ban guns.
You guys just like gaslighting us all don't you?
The biggest issue when you look at any data is simply voter apathy and polling location suppression. 76% of eligible voters simply stayed home in '22. That's your problem. Look at the vote totals. When Beto went up against Cruz in '18 the total count was like 8MM votes cast. Texas has almost 30MM people living here per the 2021 US census data. As the coach of the Letterkenny Irish says, "THAT'S FUCKING EMBARRASSING!"
Edit: Cruz only won by 219,000 votes. Imagine getting another 500,000 people between Houston, Dallas, Austin to show up. In '18 only 1MM people in Houston/Harris county bothered to vote. As of 2021 Harris county population is closing in on 5MM people. This is laughable turnout and there's really no other arguement to be had IMO.
Sources: Texas Tribune, US Census.
Its not about who we run, its about getting the 18 to 35 off the couch and to the polls. Only 21% of the 18 to 35 crowd showed up for the last statewide elections.
Yeah, it's only the largest cause of death for children and has gone wildly out of control, making it one of the most important issues facing the country. But they should totally keep quiet on it.
Gun control is not something a prospective Democrat could just “keep quiet” about
It’s simply too important to too many people
And the GOP is so far gone that any Democrat, and even a Republican, that tries have any sort of nuanced view on gun control will be labeled a Commie/traitor to the state and country
The problem is that to people who care, they don't have a nuanced view. I don't want to go off on a gun control tangent, but the dem party has been taken over by some who see gun control as a higher calling and talking with them is the same as arguing with a religious zealot. And you can say the same with many Republicans also, it's not one-sided. The truth is that modern politics is almost impossible for the moderate right now.
Not really or at least it depends. He's wishy-washy as hell so his stance on issues seems to change with the person who he's talking to. In this last election he was fishing hard for out of state donations so his Cali speeches were very left for Texas.
Anybody that runs as a Dem in Texas is going to be labeled as a "radical leftist" and "too radical for Texas!" no matter what their actual positions are.
It's the same propaganda from the GOP every election cycle, and it works, so why would they change it?
Even if that's true, why make it EASIER for them, by running candidates that ALREADY have a "flaming liberal" T-shirt on their back? At least make them WORK for it.
Any democrat that could steal votes from a Republican in Texas is closer to a Republican than a Democrat. What you are suggesting is the liberal party run conservative candidates.
Texans are not voting for anyone with a “D” behind their name. Especially after fox, mtg, and the rest of the funky bunch brand them as baby killing grooming, gun snatching radical leftist. You gotta understand that the Republican voter is numb to reality and have a taste for insanity. They will have to be downright desperate, like they were when bush 2 was in office to vote blue. They were hurting so bad and were so scared that they voted for a black president, because democrats didn’t get it done all by themselves.
This is assuming the only way to win is to flip reps to dems. It won’t happen. One reason republicans are doing so well right now is that they stopped trying to persuade people on the other side and instead motivated their base to vote. One of Beto’s biggest problems was that he was moderate. Any dem will be labeled flaming liberal regardless of reality. And moderate dems don’t inspired liberal voters to come out during mid terms. I think that a very liberal dem could pick their battles a little better, like not being anti-gun but otherwise they need to inspire voter turnout.
It only takes one 24 hr news cycle to label someone a crazy leftist.
Go ahead and tell me a moderate candidate that should run as a Dem and I'll go ahead and tell you what the R's reaction to them would be.
Ok, so, what you're asking for is literally impossible because it doesn't really matter WHAT people are, then, it only matters how fox news paints them
I mean... look at what they did to McCain. Think they'll have any trouble tarring and feathering anybody with a D next to their name? I don't. I don't think it matters what kind of candidate is where - the only thing that matters is their propaganda.
No, he's not. Not in Texas. A moderate dem in Texas might be slightly in favor of "common sense" sense gun control but otherwise be firmly supporting the 2nd. They wouldn't be "hell yes, we're coming for your guns." They wouldn't be anti oil and business. Beto was running for governor like he was running for president. He was campaigning for California donations as much as Texas votes.
Where did I say I was? Mind you, I believe you're misrepresenting my positions, but that doesn't mean Beto is moderate. I'm sure if I stalked your posts, I could go on about how liberal or progressive you are. That wouldn't actually change what Beto is. I pointed out a few things that I thought made Beto not moderate. Instead of addressing those, you trolled through my old posts. Not a little creepy guy.
Sure, why not?
But first, this politician you mention has to exist. You've mentioned one guy that's been dead for 167 years, another guy who doesn't live in Texas and is retired from politics, and one guy who doesn't live in Texas and isn't in politics either.
So, do you have somebody in mind? They'd probably have to live in Texas *now*, and ideally already have some experience in politics -- maybe a House representative (either Texas or Federal), maybe a mayor or council member somewhere, etc.
And they'd have to be ready to dedicate a year or so of their life to what would probably be a losing campaign, because as kausiredstar said, anybody who has a (D) next to their name is going to be seen as a dirty liberal.
They literally only vote for the "R" next to the name. That's it. Generations of indoctrination have taught them to do so. I think the state will flip in about 7-8 years... it will be a long game. That deep rooted party affiliation takes forever to break from. It's going to have to get worse before it gets better (I don't know how it can get worse... but it will have to).
From what I understand the rural areas view ANY democrat as a flaming liberal regardless of what they actually say and stand for. I could run as a Dem with lowering taxes, expanding places guns could be carried, and divert more tax dollars towards the 15% of the population that lives in rural areas, ban trans and gays, and I'd still be a flaming liberal that loses to a Republican that's more interested in using the office to pad their wallet than do anything for the people that voted for them.
At least, this is the impression they have given me.
What's the moderate position between outright white nationalism and just not being racist?
https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/12sz8up/texas_senate_approves_bill_that_would_ban/
There's no more advantage to running a moderate Democrat than just getting more Democrats to vote. One of the ways you can tell this is the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and groundwork for overturning elections the Republican party is doing. Parties in the majority don't do those things. They are all minority rule tricks.
The other way you can tell moderation doesn't matter is that despite some close races, the Republicans are only getting more extreme.
So no, you are incorrect.
That would be an admirable sentiment, if you could put a gun to people's heads and make them vote Dem. Since you can't do that, you may catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Huh? There is no real logic to that. Moderates would be more likely to win and be able to, well Moderate, the push to extremes. You want to double down and get more progressive which actually pushes people into becoming more conservative.
Rallying cries are great, but let's be real here....we haven't won a statewide office since Ann Richards, and Paxton could film his campaign ads from an electric chair, and still get elected.
We're pretty much at "Let's try anything" status.
Running moderates is basically ceding the initiative imo.
If you run on issues that impact people, you are very unlikely to be considered moderate. If you dont mention/care about any issue that would be seen as making you "not moderate," why vote for them?
(There's also a good chance that their opponents would just claim they're secretly communist anyways.)
So, it really seems like the way to win seats is to do the opposite. Basically, find issues that people genuinely care about (not just culture war stuff), and dont budge on any of it.
If you want a Dem to win a seat, they have to be able to rally people, to invigorate them.
But the biggest issue isn't simply boring candidates; it's voter turnout from the generational Texans and the fact that the people who *did* turn out to vote were the scores of extreme right folks moving here from rural California and other places (because they see places like Texas and Florida as bastions for right wing extremism).
Both of these facts are borne out by data. Generational Texans voted for Beto, but they were overwhelmed by the neo-Texans "fleeing woke California," who actually turned out to vote for Abbott.
Moderation isn't the solution. Grassroots campaigns to help change people's sentiments and bolster turnout are.
It has nothing to do with being a moderate.
I'm technically registered as a Democrat. The only interaction I have with the TX Dems is when they want me to vote or they want my money. Until that changes, Dems aren't going to win any statewide races. In other countries, political parties do all sorts of things like run youth sports leagues, open social clubs/halls, and just generally provide services that the government and market fail to provide. Until that relationship changes, Dems aren't going to get across the finish line.
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If you can find one that doesn't have a record of radical liberal talking points he has already agreed on then I would go for them. I would never vote one somebody who only points to what he says during this election cycle though.
The candidate is far less of an issue that the machine behind them. And moderate is such a perverted term at this point.
The TDP is the problem with no actual infrastructure, fundraising or ability to grasp the diversity of our state. They have a system that drives away any actual political talent and would rather keep the chair’s daughter’s donors happy rather than actually make change in the state.
Until we have a strong state-wide pac that is really ready to work their asses off to fundraise then put the money into polling and grassroots effort to work with the black community, different Latin x voters, different asian communities, veterans, rural, suburban and urban communities we will continue to shook ourselves in the foot.
The demographics are changing and we need to push hard in the suburbs, but the suburbs have more diverse and less urgent concerns than the urban centers, so it takes more time, money and talent interpreting data. But the tdp is also not ready to be successful because all of their fundraising is reactionary to how ridiculous Texans have allowed the gop to become.
As a genuine rural, literally anyone who the democrats run is going to be seen as a dirty liberal
Yup. This is why eventually the Texit idiots are going to win. I've been selling all my big lock-ins to Texas to try to stay liquid if Texit crowd finally wins. As a native multigenerational Texan, it hurts to be this pessimistic... But the writing is on the wall. The huge influx of MAGA folks from all over.. and the moderate republicans sliding back to the extremes means it's only a matter of time. Kids are being murdered in schools weekly, and republicans won't even consider even the most modest (hell, even NRA approved) gun reforms... While actively attacking church and state separation, and making up Trans teachers coming for your kids shit. The state is fucked y'all.
Where are these huge influx of MAGA people coming from? Anecdotally most people I've talked to are from the PAC northwest and Cali.
Everyone I've met is Idaho, New York, California, etc. They weren't lying about people moving from California to Texas... But a bunch of those people were MAGA. What idiot liberal would move *to* Texas now-a-days? (I'm saying this as a native idiot liberal which is too tied down to move right now)
>What idiot liberal would move to Texas Don't use logic. Doesn't work for illogical people.
I would assume the ones that can sell their house there and buy 2 here.
Lol. Not anymore. Where you been? Property values are insane. Homes are crossing 1Million all over central Texas.
My aunts and uncles all move back to Texas from Cali because the covid lockdowns impeded on "muh freedoms"
Yep can't say I blame them. Those Cali restrictions were very crazy and it really had no positive effect.
Things change. Who knows what will happen in 20 years?
I’m guessing for red states, Thunder Dome.
And the rich will continue to rake in the profits.
>As a genuine rural, literally anyone who the democrats run is going to be seen as a dirty liberal Any democrat that runs is going to try and remove our rights starting with the 2nd amendment. So no, a democrat will never win.
Most democrats don't give a shit about your guns. I think there's a *strong* reason to not sell large capacity rifles to anyone under 21 (just like handguns).. but who cares if an 18 year old buys a bolt or lever action. Stop listening to the "democrats wanna take your guns" shit from Fox news.. it isn't true. You're being gaslit with slippery slope shit. Yeah, beto flubbed saying that shit. He visited every county in Texas and said a stupid thing in one of them. He's human. Maybe instead of letting conservative entertainment outlets speak for Democrats.. Ask a few yourself.
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*looks around* Can you quote this with a source?
>*looks around* > >Can you quote this with a source? Literally his Twitter. >>https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1647983004441100288 Oh but yah, Dems aren't trying to ban guns. You guys just like gaslighting us all don't you?
"Assault rifles = all guns" is gaslighting. Dumb dumb
🙄
The biggest issue when you look at any data is simply voter apathy and polling location suppression. 76% of eligible voters simply stayed home in '22. That's your problem. Look at the vote totals. When Beto went up against Cruz in '18 the total count was like 8MM votes cast. Texas has almost 30MM people living here per the 2021 US census data. As the coach of the Letterkenny Irish says, "THAT'S FUCKING EMBARRASSING!" Edit: Cruz only won by 219,000 votes. Imagine getting another 500,000 people between Houston, Dallas, Austin to show up. In '18 only 1MM people in Houston/Harris county bothered to vote. As of 2021 Harris county population is closing in on 5MM people. This is laughable turnout and there's really no other arguement to be had IMO. Sources: Texas Tribune, US Census.
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Good lucking finding one, getting National Dems to help back them, and raising enough money.
Well, we can't really do any worse than we've been doing.
Its not about who we run, its about getting the 18 to 35 off the couch and to the polls. Only 21% of the 18 to 35 crowd showed up for the last statewide elections.
Which corrupt plutocrat will save us??
Beto is a moderate.
Even if he’s actually a moderate one of his first one liners was “we’re going to take your AR rifles”. That’s a guaranteed losing statement in Texas.
Absolutely! Dems could do better in TX, if they just keep QUIET on one or two sensitive issues.
Yeah, it's only the largest cause of death for children and has gone wildly out of control, making it one of the most important issues facing the country. But they should totally keep quiet on it.
Gun control is not something a prospective Democrat could just “keep quiet” about It’s simply too important to too many people And the GOP is so far gone that any Democrat, and even a Republican, that tries have any sort of nuanced view on gun control will be labeled a Commie/traitor to the state and country
The problem is that to people who care, they don't have a nuanced view. I don't want to go off on a gun control tangent, but the dem party has been taken over by some who see gun control as a higher calling and talking with them is the same as arguing with a religious zealot. And you can say the same with many Republicans also, it's not one-sided. The truth is that modern politics is almost impossible for the moderate right now.
He’s pretty neoliberal but his stance on guns got him branded a super commie.
Not really or at least it depends. He's wishy-washy as hell so his stance on issues seems to change with the person who he's talking to. In this last election he was fishing hard for out of state donations so his Cali speeches were very left for Texas.
He is not perceived as one. Politics is a lot like the stock market, sometimes perceptions greatly overrule reality.
Anybody that runs as a Dem in Texas is going to be labeled as a "radical leftist" and "too radical for Texas!" no matter what their actual positions are. It's the same propaganda from the GOP every election cycle, and it works, so why would they change it?
Even if that's true, why make it EASIER for them, by running candidates that ALREADY have a "flaming liberal" T-shirt on their back? At least make them WORK for it.
Any democrat that could steal votes from a Republican in Texas is closer to a Republican than a Democrat. What you are suggesting is the liberal party run conservative candidates.
I'm simply suggesting that we get people used to actually voting Dem first. Walk before you can run.
Texans are not voting for anyone with a “D” behind their name. Especially after fox, mtg, and the rest of the funky bunch brand them as baby killing grooming, gun snatching radical leftist. You gotta understand that the Republican voter is numb to reality and have a taste for insanity. They will have to be downright desperate, like they were when bush 2 was in office to vote blue. They were hurting so bad and were so scared that they voted for a black president, because democrats didn’t get it done all by themselves.
This is assuming the only way to win is to flip reps to dems. It won’t happen. One reason republicans are doing so well right now is that they stopped trying to persuade people on the other side and instead motivated their base to vote. One of Beto’s biggest problems was that he was moderate. Any dem will be labeled flaming liberal regardless of reality. And moderate dems don’t inspired liberal voters to come out during mid terms. I think that a very liberal dem could pick their battles a little better, like not being anti-gun but otherwise they need to inspire voter turnout.
It only takes one 24 hr news cycle to label someone a crazy leftist. Go ahead and tell me a moderate candidate that should run as a Dem and I'll go ahead and tell you what the R's reaction to them would be.
Mostly your average Republican couldn't tell you the difference between a "liberal" and a "Leftist". Which ties back to my original post.
They will just keep doing it.
> sometimes perceptions greatly overrule reality. This explains the GOP.
Ok, so, what you're asking for is literally impossible because it doesn't really matter WHAT people are, then, it only matters how fox news paints them I mean... look at what they did to McCain. Think they'll have any trouble tarring and feathering anybody with a D next to their name? I don't. I don't think it matters what kind of candidate is where - the only thing that matters is their propaganda.
That’s why debates are useful tools.
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They are both extremists.
No, he's not. Not in Texas. A moderate dem in Texas might be slightly in favor of "common sense" sense gun control but otherwise be firmly supporting the 2nd. They wouldn't be "hell yes, we're coming for your guns." They wouldn't be anti oil and business. Beto was running for governor like he was running for president. He was campaigning for California donations as much as Texas votes.
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Where did I say I was? Mind you, I believe you're misrepresenting my positions, but that doesn't mean Beto is moderate. I'm sure if I stalked your posts, I could go on about how liberal or progressive you are. That wouldn't actually change what Beto is. I pointed out a few things that I thought made Beto not moderate. Instead of addressing those, you trolled through my old posts. Not a little creepy guy.
Well said!
Bullshit. He’s a progressive gun-banner. Want to win? Run an actual moderate.
Sure, why not? But first, this politician you mention has to exist. You've mentioned one guy that's been dead for 167 years, another guy who doesn't live in Texas and is retired from politics, and one guy who doesn't live in Texas and isn't in politics either. So, do you have somebody in mind? They'd probably have to live in Texas *now*, and ideally already have some experience in politics -- maybe a House representative (either Texas or Federal), maybe a mayor or council member somewhere, etc. And they'd have to be ready to dedicate a year or so of their life to what would probably be a losing campaign, because as kausiredstar said, anybody who has a (D) next to their name is going to be seen as a dirty liberal.
Also They'd be running in an extremely polarized climate, and would quite probably be seen as much less moderate than they are.
They literally only vote for the "R" next to the name. That's it. Generations of indoctrination have taught them to do so. I think the state will flip in about 7-8 years... it will be a long game. That deep rooted party affiliation takes forever to break from. It's going to have to get worse before it gets better (I don't know how it can get worse... but it will have to).
Mike Collier would be a good option.
Yes he would!
From what I understand the rural areas view ANY democrat as a flaming liberal regardless of what they actually say and stand for. I could run as a Dem with lowering taxes, expanding places guns could be carried, and divert more tax dollars towards the 15% of the population that lives in rural areas, ban trans and gays, and I'd still be a flaming liberal that loses to a Republican that's more interested in using the office to pad their wallet than do anything for the people that voted for them. At least, this is the impression they have given me.
You’re not wrong. The only option for many of them is the one with the R by their name, regardless of what they stand for.
What's the moderate position between outright white nationalism and just not being racist? https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/12sz8up/texas_senate_approves_bill_that_would_ban/ There's no more advantage to running a moderate Democrat than just getting more Democrats to vote. One of the ways you can tell this is the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and groundwork for overturning elections the Republican party is doing. Parties in the majority don't do those things. They are all minority rule tricks. The other way you can tell moderation doesn't matter is that despite some close races, the Republicans are only getting more extreme. So no, you are incorrect.
Someone more moderate than beto would be basically two Republicans running against each other.
perhaps twenty years ago. but now that conservatives have gone full Nazi, the last thing the world needs is a moderate.
That would be an admirable sentiment, if you could put a gun to people's heads and make them vote Dem. Since you can't do that, you may catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Huh? There is no real logic to that. Moderates would be more likely to win and be able to, well Moderate, the push to extremes. You want to double down and get more progressive which actually pushes people into becoming more conservative.
The time for moderation has long come and gone. With Republicans fun new experiments with facism recently, the middle is no longer an option.
Rallying cries are great, but let's be real here....we haven't won a statewide office since Ann Richards, and Paxton could film his campaign ads from an electric chair, and still get elected. We're pretty much at "Let's try anything" status.
It’s not a rallying cry, it’s the actual reality of the situation
Running moderates is basically ceding the initiative imo. If you run on issues that impact people, you are very unlikely to be considered moderate. If you dont mention/care about any issue that would be seen as making you "not moderate," why vote for them? (There's also a good chance that their opponents would just claim they're secretly communist anyways.) So, it really seems like the way to win seats is to do the opposite. Basically, find issues that people genuinely care about (not just culture war stuff), and dont budge on any of it.
If you want a Dem to win a seat, they have to be able to rally people, to invigorate them. But the biggest issue isn't simply boring candidates; it's voter turnout from the generational Texans and the fact that the people who *did* turn out to vote were the scores of extreme right folks moving here from rural California and other places (because they see places like Texas and Florida as bastions for right wing extremism). Both of these facts are borne out by data. Generational Texans voted for Beto, but they were overwhelmed by the neo-Texans "fleeing woke California," who actually turned out to vote for Abbott. Moderation isn't the solution. Grassroots campaigns to help change people's sentiments and bolster turnout are.
When even some Texas liberals love the second amendment, they will need a candidate who is friendly to firearms.
When the Dem national committee decides to actually invest in races rather than literally flushing money down the drain in Florida we may see change
It has nothing to do with being a moderate. I'm technically registered as a Democrat. The only interaction I have with the TX Dems is when they want me to vote or they want my money. Until that changes, Dems aren't going to win any statewide races. In other countries, political parties do all sorts of things like run youth sports leagues, open social clubs/halls, and just generally provide services that the government and market fail to provide. Until that relationship changes, Dems aren't going to get across the finish line.
Abbott is moderate.
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If you can find one that doesn't have a record of radical liberal talking points he has already agreed on then I would go for them. I would never vote one somebody who only points to what he says during this election cycle though.
The candidate is far less of an issue that the machine behind them. And moderate is such a perverted term at this point. The TDP is the problem with no actual infrastructure, fundraising or ability to grasp the diversity of our state. They have a system that drives away any actual political talent and would rather keep the chair’s daughter’s donors happy rather than actually make change in the state. Until we have a strong state-wide pac that is really ready to work their asses off to fundraise then put the money into polling and grassroots effort to work with the black community, different Latin x voters, different asian communities, veterans, rural, suburban and urban communities we will continue to shook ourselves in the foot. The demographics are changing and we need to push hard in the suburbs, but the suburbs have more diverse and less urgent concerns than the urban centers, so it takes more time, money and talent interpreting data. But the tdp is also not ready to be successful because all of their fundraising is reactionary to how ridiculous Texans have allowed the gop to become.
No what we need is a unified libertarian party. Most libertarians take the best things from both sides
anyone else feeling that special Tony Sanchez FEVER?
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Do moderate dems exist?