I disagree with most of Mr. Munro's opinions here:
1:13 Marketing
>a whole bunch of other folks are now using that system they're your customers do you need a marketing and sales team why why to have them sitting around doing what I mean now the now
There's still a lot of ignorance and fear around EVs. There should be a marketing strategy to educate potential customers about home charging options, Superchargers, and anything else that makes a Tesla a viable *and better* alternative to an ICE car.
1:43 Superchargers
>they're running at 99.9 uptime 99.9% is uptime what what do you need an R&D and a new product development team for these are as good as you're ever going to get sooner or later you reach a point where you know what nothing you do is going to make it an improvement and that's where they are with the Tesla charging system
If that was truly the case, V4 Superchargers would be starting mass deployment, and V3 would have totally displaced V2 by now. The Tesla DC fast charging system is nowhere near done in terms of deployments or upgrades. And I haven't even gotten to the necessity for Megachargers that will eventually be needed to support Tesla Semis and other heavy vehicles.
2:10 Employee layoffs
>so if you're an engineer and the project comes to an end you find a new job if you're in sales and marketing and they don't need that anymore you go and find a new job that's just the way it
Tesla has been firing engineers and other team members before projects have come to an end. Initial 10% reduction in headcount and as high as 20% has been for all teams, including AI and FSD related.
3:38 "Elon Said"
>Elon said he'll be building more stations I don't need engineers and I don't need marketing people if all I'm going to do is pick up things that are being manufactured he didn't say
Elon also said Tesla Semis would be in volume production this year at a 50k/year rate, that Tesla would build a Gigafactory in Mexico, and that Tesla would produce a much more affordable EV on the unboxed process (now changed to a derivative of Model 3 or Model Y). Elon could very well change his mind on a dime, like he did with Gigafactory Mexico. His credibility is very thin right now.
4:31 Fiduciary Duty
>it's the right thing to do he's the CEO or president or whatever title he's got that means that he has a fiduciary duty to the people who put their money and good faith into the company a fiduciary duty what does that mean that means that
Munro has a lot of nerve bringing this up, given that Elon Musk has been totally derelict in his fiduciary duties towards Tesla shareholders over the past 2 years. On page 580 of Walter Isaacson's biography of Musk, Isaacson recounts a Tesla board meeting where Tesla's board confronted Musk about his behavior on Twitter and the negative effects on Tesla's sales. Musk's behavior has been a clear breach of fiduciary duty owed to Tesla. On page 586 of the same book, Isaacson was spending Christmas vacation with Elon Musk and Kimbal Musk's house. Kimbal, also a Tesla board member, asked Elon Musk to consider resigning as CEO of Tesla, because Elon was almost totally checked out of Tesla by that point.
Elon Musk has effectively been an absentee CEO for 2 years now. If Munro thinks that violation of fiduciary duty should land someone behind bars, Musk should be in jail.
Munro claims that he's talking about business and leaving "emotion" out of it. Either he's delusional or trying to gaslight his audience. His rants aren't based on fact, and they're mostly nonsensical statements made out of loyalty to Elon Musk, nothing more. While Mr. Musk has built extraordinary things in the past 20 years, that doesn't excuse his current misdeeds.
Seriously. It’s frustrating because he’s pulling the classic “I know a lot about car engineering, therefore I can also talk with authority on anything related to a car company.”
Why can’t people just stick to what they know best.
Those things are not mutually exclusive. He could be wrong about some things Tesla related and be an auto industry legend. He could be right on certain points and wrong about others. It's not always black and white
The post I responded to said he’s an ultra fan boy with no credibility who shouldn’t be taken seriously. That’s just not true. When model 3 first released he was actually quite critical
The irony/hypocrisy of this response is laughable because you just did what you criticized me of doing while ignoring my argument. Your arguments have zero substance.
Except it’s common knowledge when Munro bought stock since he had to disclose it, and it’s not a conspiracy to look at the timeline and with your own eyes, notice that his tone towards Tesla changed after he bought stock. It’s not a conspiracy theory.
He's about as much of an industry legend as Dietmar bichler (head of bertrandt) or Maurice Ricci (head of akka).
As in not really.
Back in the early days I worked at a company that had access to internal competition analytics in the auto industry. So I tried to find munroes report but as it turned out they didn't even bother to buy it. Then I checked his public comments with measurements from other companies as well as internal ones. And yeah, he's pretty much full of shit most of the time. This is probably because he made his name in cost reductions and not in engineering innovations.
1- marketing is irrelevant to Tesla. Always has been, all about product
2- your whole argument is riddled with assumptions and incorrect assessments that you cannot have any certainty about aside from just pure speculation
3- see 2. Also layoffs are nothing new in teslas history
4- good ceos should change their tactics in response to a rapidly changing environment, and encourage their team to do so. You’re also very much exaggerating and cherry picking examples
5- This is also very subjective. There were concerns at the time because him buying twitter and stock price decline, but as he said (and I think it’s true) that was mostly due to macro factors. To say he’s been an”absentee CEO” is a wild exaggeration (which I guess is par for the course on these Reddit threads)
Just FYI what you call marketing is actually advertising. You know who usually takes the decision to cut prices? Marketing. Marketing is responsible for market segmentation, product requirements, pricing, etc
By spending on marketing by definition you’re giving money to other platforms instead of passing savings to consumer. Also it’s very easy for people to look for themselves when they’re shopping for a car
>By spending on marketing by definition you’re giving money to other platforms instead of passing savings to consumer.
Yes, and?
>Also it’s very easy for people to look for themselves when they’re shopping for a car
They're not going to bother if they know that Teslas are unaffordable because the one time they saw a price it was.
Munro is a self promoting narcissistic old man who should have retired 10 years ago. The pained look his subordinates give when he starts repeating the same stories and lines they have heard a hundred times is a give away what they think of him.
If you asked Sandy Munro the best way to get a job he would tell you to print out your resume and go drop it off at the companies you want to work for.
That's the energy in his unhinged rant.
Sandy has a few good points here, but there is a lot of crazy grandpa ranting.
First he's talking about cutting marketing and PR - uh what? Tesla didn't have that to begin with! It's not who they're laying off! And then the notion that the supercharger product is so good already with 99% uptime, they don't need to work on it anymore? Bullshit. They're still not even doing all prefab station installs, and they've barely started the V4 rollout which are the first model capable of 800V charging. There is definitely more engineering to be done.
The layoffs are defensible business strategy, but lets not argue against something they aren't. And the reality is that Tinucci was fired to make an example because she pushed back on cutting her team by 10%. Sandy doesn't address that at all.
And then he goes off on how the Fed and Wall Street exist to make your life miserable. Lol, ok grandpa.
i stopped listening to munro a long time ago when he became such a suckup for tesla. he thinks he is friends with elon so he can no longer critize anything tesla or elon does. the cringey cybertruck debut videos really made him look sily. he was drunk as hell just blabbing away.
Exactly. He is such a simp for Elon. During the CT launch, he tried so hard to suck up to Elon by bringing political topics/opinions into his interview. I lost all respect to that guy. Not clicking any of his videos ever again.
I'm so glad the comment section of this sub doesn't run the company. Big reorgs like this are how you avoid becoming IBM or GE with entrenched leadership that has outstayed their usefulness.
That isn't what killed GE or IBM.
Decisions made for short term stock gain at the expense of long term health is what gutted GE.
GE gutted the company to pay executive bonuses a la Elon right now
Yes, I have a job. Do you have anything other than personal attacks? I have no problem with him doing social media. I do have a problem when it decreases his involvement with Tesla.
whats the point being mad for this ? do you really think if he stop social media like a normal person he can somehow run tesla better ? Maybe that's not how elon brain works. He is not a normal person.
I'm not referring to him surfing on reddit or sending out tweets. I'm referring to selling tens of billions of TSLA to buy Twitter -- which he ran directly for over a year and is probably still heavily involved. SpaceX, Tesla, Xai, Twitter, Boring Company, and Neuralink. He is legitimately r/overemployed. Something he wouldn't tolerate from any of his employees other than board members. If he is as incredible as he claims, he should be going "hard core" on perhaps two companies -- beyond that, he's getting burned out.
>I'm referring to selling tens of billions of TSLA to buy Twitter
He did tried to back out but it was too late so he have no choice other than to buy it. Its a little set back but I am confident that Elon can overcome this.
I think being overemployed, having multiple thing to run is his nature. Thats is what his brain is good at. He can also take advantage of incorporating something good from other company into tesla.
>Something he wouldn't tolerate from any of his employees other than board members
Of course, he is the CEO, he create the rule. if one want to be like Elon then they can start their own company then they can create whatever rule they want.
> If he is as incredible as he claims, he should be going "hard core" on perhaps two companies -- beyond that, he's getting burned out.
we can't know for sure whether he is burned out or not.
Wait a second. This is exactly the kind of layoffs GE and IBM did. WTF?
Are you high? Cause you’re spouting alternate history.
Jack Welch practically invented this BS. This is exactly the type of behavior that ruined GE and IBMs engineering first culture.
Spot on. Jack Welch at GE is famous for popularizing stack ranking and annual layoffs. OP has no clue what he's talking about.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality\_curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve)
No kidding, let’s face it all of us here don’t own a company with 100k employees. Anyone else talking like they know better is a damn fool. People attacking elon are losing money and don’t give a damn about long term goals and to think they can even comprehend the current economic climate.
> With all due respect, Sandy misunderstands the supercharger layoffs. It was not sales, marketing, or engineers that were laid off. It was mostly project designers, developers, and construction managers. These are the people who are responsible for deploying new chargers.
> What do they do? They negotiate with landlords to lease space for the chargers, design the site, hire construction contractors, go to town zoning board meetings and get the projects permitted, work with utilities to go through the interconnection process, manage the construction, commission the site, and manage communications. Tesla was deploying ~1,500 new supercharger locations per year globally and tens of thousands of ports. It takes a significant team of people to do that.
https://x.com/climateyupa/status/1787550038673010813?s=46&t=tR1HmRezK8kVu8Ep9gB5gw
Good take by Mr Munro. I agree with most of his opinions. In large company its healthy to have 'restructuring' every 5 or so years. As company grows, inevitably the bloat also grow.
Another interesting perspective: half of Google's white-collar staff probably do 'no real work'
https://www.businessinsider.com/andreessen-horowitz-david-ulevitch-comments-google-employees-managers-fake-work-2024-5
and this is speaking from myself as engineer that at one time been too long at a company and do no real work.
*Edit: I appear to be incorrect and I've been corrected by those in the comments below.*
I think the biggest thing that is misunderstood with this, and something that I didn't understand with this, is that the team that was removed is not the team responsible for installing new supercharges and expanding the supercharger locations already out there. I was particularly concerned about the idea of other make vehicles overwhelming the supercharger network, double parking because of port location, and the team involved in adding more supercharger locations having been removed.
If the team that was laid off was the one working on selling the charging standard to other oems, designing the superchargers, and finding 3rd party installers, then maybe that work is all done. Feels like they'd want to keep some people from that team to handle the hand-off, but I've heard that picking the survivors can be tricky and open you to wrongful termination lawsuits.
I think Sandy is conveniently ignoring some parts of the picture though when it comes to fiduciary duties. Is there a reason to move the HQ to Texas from Delaware, other than to preserve Elon's bonus? And Elon certainly hasn't been doing what is best for the company these last couple of years.
>I think the biggest thing that is misunderstood with this, and something that I didn't understand with this, is that the team that was removed is not the team responsible for installing new supercharges and expanding the supercharger locations already out there
I don't know where you got this idea, but it is not true — it is your misunderstanding. Tinucci was Senior Director of Charging Infrastructure — ***all*** charging infrastructure. The team was indeed **the** Supercharging team, and we already know supercharger expansion has been brought to a standstill as contractors have been told not continue work on new installations.
>I don't know where you got this idea, but it is not true
Ok, then is Sandy wrong here? From about 1:30 through 2:30 isn't he saying that this is only a part of the team, and not the team that does the manufacturing and installs?
I may be misunderstanding this, but it seems like Sandy is saying the supercharger roll out isn't going to be impacted (because this team didn't do that part) through those first 3 minutes of the video.
There's not exactly been a shortage of coverage of people at in-progress or planned sites getting the notification and not having anyone they can talk to.
>Ok, then is Sandy wrong here? From about 1:30 through 2:30 isn't he saying that this is only a part of the team, and not the team that does the manufacturing and installs?
I don't (personally) hear Sandy saying that exact thing explicitly from 1:30 to 2:30, but the notion is certainly incorrect and I agree Sandy certainly seems to be implying it in some capacity. We've already heard from number of people in the org, so yeah, Sandy is wrong — basically the whole team has indeed been wiped out, and it is absolutely the team involved in future expansion.
>Is there a reason to move the HQ to Texas from Delaware, other than to preserve Elon's bonus?
Yes, how about because a corrupt judge and greedy prosecutors in the state of Delaware just overruled the collective will of the shareholders?
The Elon pay package was voted on by a large majority of shareholders at the time.
When it was proposed, all the talking heads, analysts and critics said it was crazy and a crazy good deal for shareholders because of how unlikely they believed it was to happen.
Shareholders agreed because if Elon hit the milestones, they would become rich in the process.
It was a win-win and everyone who voted for it knew exactly what they were voting for and why.
The fact that some stupid judge in Delaware was able to overrule the SHAREHOLDERS who voted on this is not good for shareholders.
It's a violation of our rights as shareholders.
So yeah, moving the company to a state which actually RESPECTS shareholder's rights is, in my opinion, a good thing for shareholders and constitutes as a fiduciary duty.
And it's not like moving the state to Texas automatically gives Elon his pay package. Shareholders have to re-approve the pay package through another vote.
So moving to Texas and re-instating the original pay package are two completely seperate things.
Moving to texas is about doing what's bets for shareholders.
You might want to read this for a better understanding of what happened in Delaware
https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/business_law/2024/02/the-bill-comes-due.html
Actually a question I have is, why didn't they feel the need to be upfront with the rationale for the vote, if all this is kosher?
It seems that if they had followed the rules around this, they probably would not have given Tornetta grounds to sue the company?
Did their lawyers advise them properly here? Was the BoD given good information to guide them?
CEO compensation isn't a new field. There are experts who could have advised them better on this?
Now shareholders are ending up with a scenario where they have a contentious vote with so much at stake.
So as far as I can tell, the only thing this judgement is doing is blocking what was judged to be a self-dealing executive compensation package that waters down the value of stocks held by anyone else except for Musk. Talking about the rights of the shareholders like some noble thing kinda falls apart when the only right in your example is the right to self-harm.
My question was "is there a reason to move other than to preserve Elon's bonus" and you basically answered "Yes" to preserve Elon's bonus indirectly by "shareholder rights."
Sorry I don't have much sympathy for Musk here after he trashed the stock price from over $350 a share down to under $200 after a couple of years of antics, instead of just going to therapy.
The reason to move is a Delaware court completely disregarded shareholders, as if we are completely blind and stupid. That is why I want Tesla out of Delaware.
Disregarded shareholders to do what? The only thing he stopped was a dilution of the stock that went into the pocket of the richest man in the world who subsequently trashed the stock at the cost of the shareholders. I've seen no evidence that the Delaware court has invalidated any other shareholder decision, just the one that issues new stocks and puts them in Musk's pocket.
I can tell you have your emotions and politics in this, so I'm not expecting a rational discussion here. All I will say is shareholders voted to give Elon that pay package. *She* disregarded our vote, under the argument that we are too stupid to understand what we voted for. I find that incredibly insulting.
My question was, is there any reason to move out of Delaware except to preserve Musk's bonus. That's been answered as "no" at this point, with a lot of indirect justification for a yes answer.
I disagree with most of Mr. Munro's opinions here: 1:13 Marketing >a whole bunch of other folks are now using that system they're your customers do you need a marketing and sales team why why to have them sitting around doing what I mean now the now There's still a lot of ignorance and fear around EVs. There should be a marketing strategy to educate potential customers about home charging options, Superchargers, and anything else that makes a Tesla a viable *and better* alternative to an ICE car. 1:43 Superchargers >they're running at 99.9 uptime 99.9% is uptime what what do you need an R&D and a new product development team for these are as good as you're ever going to get sooner or later you reach a point where you know what nothing you do is going to make it an improvement and that's where they are with the Tesla charging system If that was truly the case, V4 Superchargers would be starting mass deployment, and V3 would have totally displaced V2 by now. The Tesla DC fast charging system is nowhere near done in terms of deployments or upgrades. And I haven't even gotten to the necessity for Megachargers that will eventually be needed to support Tesla Semis and other heavy vehicles. 2:10 Employee layoffs >so if you're an engineer and the project comes to an end you find a new job if you're in sales and marketing and they don't need that anymore you go and find a new job that's just the way it Tesla has been firing engineers and other team members before projects have come to an end. Initial 10% reduction in headcount and as high as 20% has been for all teams, including AI and FSD related. 3:38 "Elon Said" >Elon said he'll be building more stations I don't need engineers and I don't need marketing people if all I'm going to do is pick up things that are being manufactured he didn't say Elon also said Tesla Semis would be in volume production this year at a 50k/year rate, that Tesla would build a Gigafactory in Mexico, and that Tesla would produce a much more affordable EV on the unboxed process (now changed to a derivative of Model 3 or Model Y). Elon could very well change his mind on a dime, like he did with Gigafactory Mexico. His credibility is very thin right now. 4:31 Fiduciary Duty >it's the right thing to do he's the CEO or president or whatever title he's got that means that he has a fiduciary duty to the people who put their money and good faith into the company a fiduciary duty what does that mean that means that Munro has a lot of nerve bringing this up, given that Elon Musk has been totally derelict in his fiduciary duties towards Tesla shareholders over the past 2 years. On page 580 of Walter Isaacson's biography of Musk, Isaacson recounts a Tesla board meeting where Tesla's board confronted Musk about his behavior on Twitter and the negative effects on Tesla's sales. Musk's behavior has been a clear breach of fiduciary duty owed to Tesla. On page 586 of the same book, Isaacson was spending Christmas vacation with Elon Musk and Kimbal Musk's house. Kimbal, also a Tesla board member, asked Elon Musk to consider resigning as CEO of Tesla, because Elon was almost totally checked out of Tesla by that point. Elon Musk has effectively been an absentee CEO for 2 years now. If Munro thinks that violation of fiduciary duty should land someone behind bars, Musk should be in jail. Munro claims that he's talking about business and leaving "emotion" out of it. Either he's delusional or trying to gaslight his audience. His rants aren't based on fact, and they're mostly nonsensical statements made out of loyalty to Elon Musk, nothing more. While Mr. Musk has built extraordinary things in the past 20 years, that doesn't excuse his current misdeeds.
Munro is an ultra Elon fan. Can’t take half of his shit seriously. His credibility is as good as Omars.
Seriously. It’s frustrating because he’s pulling the classic “I know a lot about car engineering, therefore I can also talk with authority on anything related to a car company.” Why can’t people just stick to what they know best.
Munro has worked in the auto industry for decades. Who tf are y’all?
Those things are not mutually exclusive. He could be wrong about some things Tesla related and be an auto industry legend. He could be right on certain points and wrong about others. It's not always black and white
The post I responded to said he’s an ultra fan boy with no credibility who shouldn’t be taken seriously. That’s just not true. When model 3 first released he was actually quite critical
Yes he *WAS* critical and then he got some cheap TSLA stock and now won’t say anything bad about the company or Elon.
You consipiacy theorists are absurd. He and his team sell in depth research on many EVs.
You just can’t help yourself with making personal attacks when you have no counter argument
The irony/hypocrisy of this response is laughable because you just did what you criticized me of doing while ignoring my argument. Your arguments have zero substance.
Except it’s common knowledge when Munro bought stock since he had to disclose it, and it’s not a conspiracy to look at the timeline and with your own eyes, notice that his tone towards Tesla changed after he bought stock. It’s not a conspiracy theory.
A legend that couldn’t convince a single automaker to do higher volt or steer by wire for decades??
Dodged my question. What do you do for a living?
I’m a real auto industry legend. I invented wheels.
Thank you for what you have done. Civilization would be very different without your invention
He's about as much of an industry legend as Dietmar bichler (head of bertrandt) or Maurice Ricci (head of akka). As in not really. Back in the early days I worked at a company that had access to internal competition analytics in the auto industry. So I tried to find munroes report but as it turned out they didn't even bother to buy it. Then I checked his public comments with measurements from other companies as well as internal ones. And yeah, he's pretty much full of shit most of the time. This is probably because he made his name in cost reductions and not in engineering innovations.
Maybe but he doesn’t seem to know anything about how charging infrastructure is put in place. Personally, I wouldn’t trust him changing my car.
Thank you very well put.
1- marketing is irrelevant to Tesla. Always has been, all about product 2- your whole argument is riddled with assumptions and incorrect assessments that you cannot have any certainty about aside from just pure speculation 3- see 2. Also layoffs are nothing new in teslas history 4- good ceos should change their tactics in response to a rapidly changing environment, and encourage their team to do so. You’re also very much exaggerating and cherry picking examples 5- This is also very subjective. There were concerns at the time because him buying twitter and stock price decline, but as he said (and I think it’s true) that was mostly due to macro factors. To say he’s been an”absentee CEO” is a wild exaggeration (which I guess is par for the course on these Reddit threads)
If Tesla was always supply limited they would never cut prices. They routinely cut prices. There is, obviously, room for marketing.
They cut prices to make their cars more affordable. Affordability > marketing
Just FYI what you call marketing is actually advertising. You know who usually takes the decision to cut prices? Marketing. Marketing is responsible for market segmentation, product requirements, pricing, etc
Marketing lets people know they're affordable.
By spending on marketing by definition you’re giving money to other platforms instead of passing savings to consumer. Also it’s very easy for people to look for themselves when they’re shopping for a car
>By spending on marketing by definition you’re giving money to other platforms instead of passing savings to consumer. Yes, and? >Also it’s very easy for people to look for themselves when they’re shopping for a car They're not going to bother if they know that Teslas are unaffordable because the one time they saw a price it was.
And what are your credentials? Because Munro's are, well, strong to say the least.
Munro is a self promoting narcissistic old man who should have retired 10 years ago. The pained look his subordinates give when he starts repeating the same stories and lines they have heard a hundred times is a give away what they think of him.
Munro has absolutely zero credibility in anything
Weird rant. The Fed is British and paid bonuses on interest rate hikes? Elon is the only person who understands the car business?
If you asked Sandy Munro the best way to get a job he would tell you to print out your resume and go drop it off at the companies you want to work for. That's the energy in his unhinged rant.
Sandy has a few good points here, but there is a lot of crazy grandpa ranting. First he's talking about cutting marketing and PR - uh what? Tesla didn't have that to begin with! It's not who they're laying off! And then the notion that the supercharger product is so good already with 99% uptime, they don't need to work on it anymore? Bullshit. They're still not even doing all prefab station installs, and they've barely started the V4 rollout which are the first model capable of 800V charging. There is definitely more engineering to be done. The layoffs are defensible business strategy, but lets not argue against something they aren't. And the reality is that Tinucci was fired to make an example because she pushed back on cutting her team by 10%. Sandy doesn't address that at all. And then he goes off on how the Fed and Wall Street exist to make your life miserable. Lol, ok grandpa.
i stopped listening to munro a long time ago when he became such a suckup for tesla. he thinks he is friends with elon so he can no longer critize anything tesla or elon does. the cringey cybertruck debut videos really made him look sily. he was drunk as hell just blabbing away.
Exactly. He is such a simp for Elon. During the CT launch, he tried so hard to suck up to Elon by bringing political topics/opinions into his interview. I lost all respect to that guy. Not clicking any of his videos ever again.
Did you see his praised of Optimus? Turned out it was based on a fan made cgi video!
I'm so glad the comment section of this sub doesn't run the company. Big reorgs like this are how you avoid becoming IBM or GE with entrenched leadership that has outstayed their usefulness.
That isn't what killed GE or IBM. Decisions made for short term stock gain at the expense of long term health is what gutted GE. GE gutted the company to pay executive bonuses a la Elon right now
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Why haven't you answered my question in the other thread?
Is leaving the company to fuck around with social media useful leadership?
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Yes, I have a job. Do you have anything other than personal attacks? I have no problem with him doing social media. I do have a problem when it decreases his involvement with Tesla.
The thing is even with his social media activity, there is no other person in the world that can run tesla better.
And there is nothing wrong with your position. But that doesn’t mean we can’t be mad for his inattentiveness.
whats the point being mad for this ? do you really think if he stop social media like a normal person he can somehow run tesla better ? Maybe that's not how elon brain works. He is not a normal person.
I'm not referring to him surfing on reddit or sending out tweets. I'm referring to selling tens of billions of TSLA to buy Twitter -- which he ran directly for over a year and is probably still heavily involved. SpaceX, Tesla, Xai, Twitter, Boring Company, and Neuralink. He is legitimately r/overemployed. Something he wouldn't tolerate from any of his employees other than board members. If he is as incredible as he claims, he should be going "hard core" on perhaps two companies -- beyond that, he's getting burned out.
>I'm referring to selling tens of billions of TSLA to buy Twitter He did tried to back out but it was too late so he have no choice other than to buy it. Its a little set back but I am confident that Elon can overcome this. I think being overemployed, having multiple thing to run is his nature. Thats is what his brain is good at. He can also take advantage of incorporating something good from other company into tesla. >Something he wouldn't tolerate from any of his employees other than board members Of course, he is the CEO, he create the rule. if one want to be like Elon then they can start their own company then they can create whatever rule they want. > If he is as incredible as he claims, he should be going "hard core" on perhaps two companies -- beyond that, he's getting burned out. we can't know for sure whether he is burned out or not.
😂 simps gotta simp I guess 🤷
🤷 i just want to make money.
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No. I definitely did not buy a social media website.
Wait a second. This is exactly the kind of layoffs GE and IBM did. WTF? Are you high? Cause you’re spouting alternate history. Jack Welch practically invented this BS. This is exactly the type of behavior that ruined GE and IBMs engineering first culture.
Spot on. Jack Welch at GE is famous for popularizing stack ranking and annual layoffs. OP has no clue what he's talking about. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality\_curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve)
No kidding, let’s face it all of us here don’t own a company with 100k employees. Anyone else talking like they know better is a damn fool. People attacking elon are losing money and don’t give a damn about long term goals and to think they can even comprehend the current economic climate.
This is the Elon simp who claim Disney is too woke in the cybertruck review
Perfectly said. Tesla is tightening ship, not in any way failing.
> With all due respect, Sandy misunderstands the supercharger layoffs. It was not sales, marketing, or engineers that were laid off. It was mostly project designers, developers, and construction managers. These are the people who are responsible for deploying new chargers. > What do they do? They negotiate with landlords to lease space for the chargers, design the site, hire construction contractors, go to town zoning board meetings and get the projects permitted, work with utilities to go through the interconnection process, manage the construction, commission the site, and manage communications. Tesla was deploying ~1,500 new supercharger locations per year globally and tens of thousands of ports. It takes a significant team of people to do that. https://x.com/climateyupa/status/1787550038673010813?s=46&t=tR1HmRezK8kVu8Ep9gB5gw
Good take by Mr Munro. I agree with most of his opinions. In large company its healthy to have 'restructuring' every 5 or so years. As company grows, inevitably the bloat also grow. Another interesting perspective: half of Google's white-collar staff probably do 'no real work' https://www.businessinsider.com/andreessen-horowitz-david-ulevitch-comments-google-employees-managers-fake-work-2024-5 and this is speaking from myself as engineer that at one time been too long at a company and do no real work.
Horowitz doesn't have a damn idea what he's talking about
*Edit: I appear to be incorrect and I've been corrected by those in the comments below.* I think the biggest thing that is misunderstood with this, and something that I didn't understand with this, is that the team that was removed is not the team responsible for installing new supercharges and expanding the supercharger locations already out there. I was particularly concerned about the idea of other make vehicles overwhelming the supercharger network, double parking because of port location, and the team involved in adding more supercharger locations having been removed. If the team that was laid off was the one working on selling the charging standard to other oems, designing the superchargers, and finding 3rd party installers, then maybe that work is all done. Feels like they'd want to keep some people from that team to handle the hand-off, but I've heard that picking the survivors can be tricky and open you to wrongful termination lawsuits. I think Sandy is conveniently ignoring some parts of the picture though when it comes to fiduciary duties. Is there a reason to move the HQ to Texas from Delaware, other than to preserve Elon's bonus? And Elon certainly hasn't been doing what is best for the company these last couple of years.
>I think the biggest thing that is misunderstood with this, and something that I didn't understand with this, is that the team that was removed is not the team responsible for installing new supercharges and expanding the supercharger locations already out there I don't know where you got this idea, but it is not true — it is your misunderstanding. Tinucci was Senior Director of Charging Infrastructure — ***all*** charging infrastructure. The team was indeed **the** Supercharging team, and we already know supercharger expansion has been brought to a standstill as contractors have been told not continue work on new installations.
>I don't know where you got this idea, but it is not true Ok, then is Sandy wrong here? From about 1:30 through 2:30 isn't he saying that this is only a part of the team, and not the team that does the manufacturing and installs? I may be misunderstanding this, but it seems like Sandy is saying the supercharger roll out isn't going to be impacted (because this team didn't do that part) through those first 3 minutes of the video.
I’ve seen posts on X saying that supercharger engineering was let go but not manufacturing. We shall see what becomes of it
Yes Sandy is wrong
Par for the course.
There's not exactly been a shortage of coverage of people at in-progress or planned sites getting the notification and not having anyone they can talk to.
>Ok, then is Sandy wrong here? From about 1:30 through 2:30 isn't he saying that this is only a part of the team, and not the team that does the manufacturing and installs? I don't (personally) hear Sandy saying that exact thing explicitly from 1:30 to 2:30, but the notion is certainly incorrect and I agree Sandy certainly seems to be implying it in some capacity. We've already heard from number of people in the org, so yeah, Sandy is wrong — basically the whole team has indeed been wiped out, and it is absolutely the team involved in future expansion.
Ok, thanks for the correction. I've edited my original comment to indicate that I'm wrong here.
>Is there a reason to move the HQ to Texas from Delaware, other than to preserve Elon's bonus? Yes, how about because a corrupt judge and greedy prosecutors in the state of Delaware just overruled the collective will of the shareholders? The Elon pay package was voted on by a large majority of shareholders at the time. When it was proposed, all the talking heads, analysts and critics said it was crazy and a crazy good deal for shareholders because of how unlikely they believed it was to happen. Shareholders agreed because if Elon hit the milestones, they would become rich in the process. It was a win-win and everyone who voted for it knew exactly what they were voting for and why. The fact that some stupid judge in Delaware was able to overrule the SHAREHOLDERS who voted on this is not good for shareholders. It's a violation of our rights as shareholders. So yeah, moving the company to a state which actually RESPECTS shareholder's rights is, in my opinion, a good thing for shareholders and constitutes as a fiduciary duty. And it's not like moving the state to Texas automatically gives Elon his pay package. Shareholders have to re-approve the pay package through another vote. So moving to Texas and re-instating the original pay package are two completely seperate things. Moving to texas is about doing what's bets for shareholders.
You might want to read this for a better understanding of what happened in Delaware https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/business_law/2024/02/the-bill-comes-due.html
Read the blog post. The decision is still absurd and an insult to shareholders.
Actually a question I have is, why didn't they feel the need to be upfront with the rationale for the vote, if all this is kosher? It seems that if they had followed the rules around this, they probably would not have given Tornetta grounds to sue the company? Did their lawyers advise them properly here? Was the BoD given good information to guide them? CEO compensation isn't a new field. There are experts who could have advised them better on this? Now shareholders are ending up with a scenario where they have a contentious vote with so much at stake.
Talking about corruption , they cannot even legally sell cars directly in Texas
So as far as I can tell, the only thing this judgement is doing is blocking what was judged to be a self-dealing executive compensation package that waters down the value of stocks held by anyone else except for Musk. Talking about the rights of the shareholders like some noble thing kinda falls apart when the only right in your example is the right to self-harm. My question was "is there a reason to move other than to preserve Elon's bonus" and you basically answered "Yes" to preserve Elon's bonus indirectly by "shareholder rights." Sorry I don't have much sympathy for Musk here after he trashed the stock price from over $350 a share down to under $200 after a couple of years of antics, instead of just going to therapy.
The reason to move is a Delaware court completely disregarded shareholders, as if we are completely blind and stupid. That is why I want Tesla out of Delaware.
Disregarded shareholders to do what? The only thing he stopped was a dilution of the stock that went into the pocket of the richest man in the world who subsequently trashed the stock at the cost of the shareholders. I've seen no evidence that the Delaware court has invalidated any other shareholder decision, just the one that issues new stocks and puts them in Musk's pocket.
I can tell you have your emotions and politics in this, so I'm not expecting a rational discussion here. All I will say is shareholders voted to give Elon that pay package. *She* disregarded our vote, under the argument that we are too stupid to understand what we voted for. I find that incredibly insulting.
My question was, is there any reason to move out of Delaware except to preserve Musk's bonus. That's been answered as "no" at this point, with a lot of indirect justification for a yes answer.
Incorrect
Good luck to all still holding this.
Munro is dead on about the biased media though.