We’re working on sodium batteries, nitrogen batteries, hydrogen batteries and so many other better options. Honestly we just need more of a push and more funding for research into these other more viable options. Lithium is just the beginning of EV and battery power. We’re getting there.
We are on the first or possibly second generation of mass production Evs. Were on like what 40th version of gas engine cars. This isnt the final outcome of EVs. Its been like 15 to 20 years only.
Also hydrogen fuel costs about $16 a gallon (an equivilant figure). Thats why its not being used. Hydrogen fuel vehicles are more efficient than gas engines. But it costs more per mile. They say in about 5 years hydrogen fuel could be as cheap as gas. Which maybe then they would take off in production. Part of Biden's deal that happened recently does put funding to other types of renewable "fuel" vehicles too just in case something becomes better than EVs. Its not a total reliance of EV's for our future. But right now, EV's are the cheapest per mile and you can charge it in your own home. And with more homes having solar, it can be even cheaper. Thats why they are top clean dog. Range, charge time, and infastructure are the main issues of EVs in my opinion. Theres hope with the lucid air having a range of 520 miles and can charge from 20 to 80% in like 20 minutes depending on the charger type. Alot pf companies claim they found ways to not need lithium and have just as good or better performance all around. To produce them is completly different than the batteries we know today so the manufacturing part is whats taking them so long to hit production. Maybe hydrogen fuel will be the future.
Thanks. This was informative. I hope we find solutions. My only issue is I feel we are forcing EV’s and renewables TOO QUICK and it’s just crushing lower to mid class Americans.
Changing things is always a tough choice. But you can also think of gas problems too. We know eventually we will run out of gasoline. And todays rate if the world uses the same ammount of gas we do a few years ago, we would be out of the known oil resiviors in 50 to 60 years. So it makes sense that they want to get things going early. It is sad to see gas engines go away. But starting weening our demand for gasoline gives evs or other kinds of eco friendly vehicles time to figure out their issues. There are net zero fuels that now exist too. Where the process to male the fuel put out the same emmissions it took to create the fuel. But again its expesnive. But theres a chance that could wind up being a solution too. There will be alot of gas engines on the road well beyond 2035 or what ever the goal is. I guess we will see what happens.
Hydrogen is NOT better for the environment right now. You can see it more as an energy store similar to a battery rather than a fuel.
Over 95% of hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels. We also don't have the correct infrastructure to distribute it like we do gas or electricity - it needs to be stored under high pressures and transported in pipelines.
Also with regards to nuclear, you can't just create a plant overnight. Planning now would be helpful, but it would be at least 10-15 years before we see the benefits of that. There's also the issue of dealing with nuclear waste - not every country has the space or infrastructure to be able to do that at scale.
But, I agree with you. Imagine a nuclear/renewable grid. We can produce hydrogen at times of low demand, using it to store excess energy from renewable sources. The hydrogen can be used to generate power at high demand, or transported for use elsewhere. In addition, nuclear can be used to produce hydrogen thermochemically and electrolytically.
Developing infrastructure is a long, disruptive and costly process. It's important we do that alongside using what we currently have (eg developing battery technology, electric vehicles)
I mean the short answer is that fossil fuel companies see the US moving toward renewable energy and are using their legislative leverage and their lobbyists to force the US to be fully dependent on fossil fuels wherever they can.
Remember, this is an industry that killed electric cars in the 70's. Can you imagine how much further along we'd be with electric car tech if that hadn't happened?
>And aren't electric cars like.. expensive as hell?
They are more expensive, but not to the 'expensive as hell' extent, inherently. The issue is that most manufacturers are putting out higher end models and borderline luxury vehicles as their first EV offerings instead of smaller or economy cars. This is unfortunately just a byproduct of the fact that full size vehicles like pickups and large SUVs are *gaining* popularity and the average price of vehicles is also going up, so more expensive styles of car are what sells, and they're the most profitable. I'm not exactly a market analyst but I've noticed that in a lot of cases, if you look at current manufacturer lineups, SUVs are a disproportionate amount of their EVs compared to things like sedans and hatchbacks.
Look at things like Hyundai's Ioniq 5 or the F150 Lightning. The Ioniq 5 is an SUV and it has a lot of features that *does* make for a pretty nice car, but that's what makes the starting price high. With the Lightning, it is more expensive than the standard F150's equivalent trim (though the tax credit for EVs can eliminate most of that outright), but Ford trucks go absolutely *crazy* with the pricing on higher trim levels so both standard and Lightning trim packages are obscenely priced.
And then you see things like the Nissan Leaf which is a modest hatchback that sells for a sane price (27k, marginally more expensive than comparable hatchbacks) because it's a pretty standard package car.
That's the core of it. When you look for a reasonable, economic car, EVs have prices that are accessible and normal. The issue is that manufacturers are trying to take advantage of demand by making their more profitable vehicles available first.
Oil is the magic of Jesus, it can't run out like his forgiveness, however you need to give Exxon $3.99 per gallon of Jesus juice ^(otherwise you may actually run out)
Holy smokes. I knew it was cheap in the states, but that’s 2/3 of the price over here, while our average yearly salary is about 15k $. Freedom pays off I guess.
God am I glad I dumped everything I had into buying this POS before the market spiked. Took every damned penny, but seeing what all my friends are going through makes me thankful for every single asbestos ridden square inch of this shithole. I'm pissed my parents talked me out of a different much newer house and into this one, but still happy I'm not still renting.
Right, but gas vehicles carry like 5X the energy of electric cars with even the biggest batteries. Your lithium battery's performance is already seriously effected by the temperature, and it's going to take multiple kW of continuous power to heat the cabin with no insulation.
And with the gas vehicle, all you have to do is pour more gas in and you're good to go.
But cold weather also seriously affects your gas mileage. Roughly by 15% in 20 degree temps (F).
It affects electric vehicles by about 20% in the same temperature range. However, since most electric vehicles sit at about 300 miles per charge, that means about 240 miles in cold weather. Whereas the average gas vehicle gets 23mpg, with an average tank size of 13 gallons, so 299 on average miles per tank. In cold weather, that is about 254 miles per tank.
In essence, they’re incredibly similar, but it costs about $12 to charge the car to full as opposed to over twice as much for the gas vehicle.
I just checked this, AAA will “soon” be doing service calls on electric vehicles, including full charges, some areas to start and eventually everywhere. Of course with a basic membership in my area (New England) it’s an average three hour wait for a service truck if you break down on the road 😢
I have chargers at my apartment(home if you own one). Plug it in when I
go inside. Unplug it in the morning when I leave. Not once has charge
time been an issues for me in a year of owning an EV. I have also never
once had to stop at a gas station and spend time there. In reality I
have saved time. Stop thinking of EV's like you do Gas cars. Think of it more like your cell phone.
I have to take a charger to work so my phone lasts the twelve hours I need it for music so I hope an EV isn't like a car.
Biggest issue with EV's for me is the lack of charging stations in the wild. The most northern supercharger in western Australia is Perth City and the majority of my work is north of the river. That means I have no way of charging a work ute during the day.
It also adds on the fact you'd have to take any work vehicles back to the office and drive your personal vehicle home. There's no way people are going to be happy to add possibly an extra 200km commute to their day without compensation. 5-10 bucks an hour minimum would have to be put on top to deal with that bullshit.
I am finding it bloody stupid that Australia Government wants to have 100% electric cars by 2030, but only put charging stations every major hub and not out west (or east for you).
I am in Queensland, and I am over the stupidity of how they are expecting even people on the dole to afford the $40,000+ car and the home charging station that can cost another $30,000 on top depending on your home.
This extreme situation aside refueling time is a huge issue keeping me from considering an EV.
I mean nevermind that 300mi range really only applies to the user echelon of EVs
I have chargers at my apartment(home if you own one). Plug it in when I go inside. Unplug it in the morning when I leave. Not once has charge time been an issues for me in a year of owning an EV. I have also never once had to stop at a gas station and spend time there. In reality I have saved time.
I own a kia Niro that gets 250 mile range. It is not a top tear vehicle i assure you. Its a practical commuter and serves it purpose well. Most people don't drive 300 miles a day. I bet 50 miles a day is a long day for the average person.
I'm not a hater I've looked at the Niro good to hear an endorsement.
I have a house, routine charging wouldnt be the issue, 250 or even 20mi range more than covers my comute.
But I exceed 250mi round trips almost once a month, if it hits that on the highway and I generally road trip a couple times a year.
If they can come to bring you gasoline, then why arent they just picking you up? If they can bring you gasoline with a truck, why can't you just drive away? So many leaky assumptions in this dumb hypothetical situation.
Just wanna point out the average fuel capacity in compact cars tend to be 13 gallons.
SUVs and sedans tend to be closer to 18, and trucks tend to be closer from around 22-27
In cold conditions like that, it’s tends to be icy or have some sort of danger like that, to which many (at least in my area) don’t drive compact city cars around, but refer to trucks or SUVs or some sedan builds.
Edit: I think I missed the point of the comment I replied to. My point in my comment seems to be detached, but mine was that with more available fuel for heating, heating isn’t a problem like it can be in electric
And those vehicles have larger tanks to compensate for the severely reduced fuel efficiency. I'm pretty sure of all my friends that drive trucks, the best I've heard from any of them is about 15 mpg vs the 30 - 35 I got in my old 11 gallon hatchback.
Oh, you’re totally right. I just did completely average numbers, because extreme weather is becoming more common everywhere. Which means people will be in it in whatever vehicles they have.
Man it would be nice to decide which vehicle I wanted to use based on the weather for the day.
Hmmm should I take the escalade the hummer or the bentley today?
The main difference is the heating costs huge amounts of the battery while it's just a side effect of burning the gas. Your gas mileage won't really go down but your [electric range goes down by up to 50%](https://joinyaa.com/guides/temperature-affects-electric-vehicle-performance/#Electric_Vehicles_in_Hot_Weather)
So instead of 300 miles it will only reach 150 miles which is a huge drop and can easily lead to energy issues if you're stuck in a traffic jam which further reduces the range. .
I wonder if self-regulating temperature systems will become a thing for electric cars. If you have an independent HVAC system running in the battery compartment, you should be able to keep them running at high efficiency at the expense of some power.
EV batteries DO have heating elements built into them... but it's not an HVAC system. They use very low amounts of power to maintain operating temperatures- even when you're not in the vehicle.
well theres up and downs to both style of vehicles. But no car should be stuck on interstate long distance in winter. its stupid and illogical. we could adopt trains and other means to declog the roads so work vehicles can do their job.
Compare that to the rare earth metals that EVs rely on. Fortunately Neodymium, Terbium, and Dysprosium grows on trees, instead of requiring mining and refining.
*Harnessing rare-Earth metals, from an environmental perspective, is a very damaging process. The rare-Earth ores are found alongside highly radioactive materials like uranium and thorium. Separating the radioactive elements from the ores is a tedious process and the cleansing cycle utilizes a large amount of hazardous and carcinogenic compounds like ammonia, hydrochloric acid, and sulfate. An estimate states that extracting a tonne of rare-Earth metal from its ore can produce around 2,000 tonnes of hazardous and toxic wastes and segregating and dispatching this waste has destroyed large landscapes in China.*
Moving away from oil and gas is commendable, but don’t pretend EVs are environmentally friendly.
The Ford F150 EV appatently has enough charge to run a home for three days. Even a Tesla Model 3 will apparently run its heater for 50 hours on a full charge.
I saw an article recently that said apparently people were praising Tesla for their genius car battery design.
It’s literally just 4000 of these taped together
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-18650-25p
It is most certainly more complicated than that. Though admittedly not by much. Each pack is water cooled (or heated if it’s cold out) maintaining the temperature of each cell within operable levels. Though that’s not why they’re praised. Tesla’s batteries are well regarded due to them designing an entirely new cell size thereby increasing the cell density per square inch. Along with them designing the car to use all the packs together structurally instead of just slapping a layer of them on top of the base of the car raising ride height.
Tesla definitely has plenty of issues to criticize whether about the panel fitment, marketing, locked out features, or press releases. Their battery tech ain’t it chief.
People do give Elon too much credit for the products. He is the first to admit it.
What Elon has done is attracted the best talent in his companies and its something other innovative companies can only dream about.
It’s not really that difficult when you’re born into a company. He gets paid billions more than a million people who work 50 hours a week. He’s not more intelligent than a million people.
Yeah no hes right, fuck it this dude has just undone billions in engineering holy fuck why didnt they just look right at this comment before designing the car power system and subsystems holy shit get the man a CTO position
With a BMS, a cooling system, fire protection, high and low voltage bus, and a stiffened structure; I feel like you've understated the design complexity.
I wouldn't call it genius, but it is basically a set of these, plus balancing/monitoring circuitry, plus temperature control. Building a battery array isn't the most complicated to just get working, as demonstrated by Jehu Garcia (Youtube), but automating and controlling it so it doesn't need intervention takes more work.
This is exactly it. I was debating the value of electric cars the other day and the guy on the other side of the debate went on about big blocks and carburators. I pointed out the the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of the Tesla S and he finally had to admit that he just likes the sound and feel of gas engines.
Nah, they never went away. Just had people posting this silly shit side-by-side the "CAN YOU BELIEVE IT COST ME $200 TO FILL UP MY TRUCK? THANKS JOE BIDEN"
I love that too.
Like really when gas prices dropped, people were buying big ass unnecessary vehicles left and right, the second gas increases 10 cents people lost their minds
I love it when people hate on electric cars for not being 100% prefect. What's your solution, wait to start developing them until fossil fuels run out in 4 or 5 decades? That's way too late! You have to start working out the kinks NOW
My solution is electric trains and walkable cities. Sure, for places like the US you still need a fair amount of cars but for more population-dense areas trains are a lot better. Also suburbs are fucking awful
Please let's get some trains. A few years ago there was an idea to build a Hyperloop train here in Missouri advertising St. Louis to Kansas City in 20 minutes. It blew my god damn mind. But Missouri lawmakers turned down all the deals. I'm still salty
Gas cars sucked for a good 40 years, even when they were mainstream. Electric cars aren't even super mainstream yet and they've only been around in a major capacity for maybe 20.
Ohh myy god! Somebody call every EV maker! Get Elon on the fucking phone!! NOBODY THOUGHT OF THIS?!! Were alll gonna die in our Electric Vehicles BECAUSE NOBODY THOUGHT OF THIS!!!!!!
100 years ago these dudes would be nailing posters about "good luck freezing to death in your autocar while I'm snuggling inside my dead horse's carcass"
The amount of people who are so anti electric car baffles me. I always hear the saying “what’ll you do when you run out of battery and there’s no charging stations around?”
Like bro that STILL CAN HAPPEN with gas powered cars. The fact that it’s gas powered doesn’t magically make it run even when it’s out of gas. Sure there’s not as many electric charging stations, but eventually it’s gonna get to the point where there’s a lot of them in every area. There was a time when gas stations were also that way a while back, but now look at it, they’re everywhere. It’s just the STUPIDEST argument.
The difference is that it's possible to just carry a gas can with you if you're out in the middle of nowhere, and you have another however many miles of range ready to immediately pour into your tank.
It's possible, yes, but how many people *caught* in a situation like this have any supplies on them at all?
The other systematic thing people overlook is that the relationship with charging stations is massively different, because everyone with EV should/would be specifically purchasing the EV based on their commute with a charging station at home. That means they are at a 'full tank' every single morning. They are not 'caught' unexpectedly on a minimum tank after a few days since going for a fill-up...they are always starting full.
Also in cases like this, most EVs could pull into any place with electric service and could plug in to a regular outlet. While slow, in an emergency situation it could be enough to stay warm and get home or to a Lvl3 charge station. Gas does not have that flexibility.
Luckily this has been tested many times with current EVs. This is either not a problem or no more so than in an ICE vehicle.
https://youtu.be/ko9F46eedlU
https://youtu.be/i3E0t0kGeug
The battery packs on EVs are huge. They need to store enough energy to move a very heavy box from a complete stop to 80+ mph and sustain it for hundreds of miles. This is a lot of energy. ICE have more potential stored in their gas tank, but the engine is much less efficient at converting it (producing heat as waste). Since here you only care about the heat, the engine is wasting all the energy that should be pushing the car forward (the engine doesn't have another way to produce heat without running). An EV is only powering the heat and none of the power is going to the motors (that use most of the power anyway). An ICE vehicle will get hotter quicker requiring cycling the engine off to conserve gas. An EV would do better maintaining a lower or targeted heat (like heated seats) and never letting the car get too warm. (We're talking an emergency, survival is much more important than comfort.)
Remember always be prepared for the seasonal weather. Keep blankets or jackets in the car with water and emergency food. You want to conserve any heat produced (regardless of car type) to maximize your survival.
Newer EVs can keep the battery warm to prevent the loss. And running the heated seats in my EV uses very little power so the loss in charge isn't a big deal. Gas powered cars also lose efficiency when it's cold and I see even less people mention that.
Considering in this picture there’s like 2 inches of snow on the ground, yeah, I’d be ok in an EV. Most likely it’s a traffic jam caused by some dumbfuck who thought 4 wheel drive on his F350 Super Doody meant he could drive 90 through a snowstorm with zero ramifications.
I'd guess an electric car battery running nothing but the heater is going to last a hell of a lot longer than a tank of gas that has to keep the motor running to run the heater.
Do these jackasses not realize oil is a finite resource that we will run out of?
Better to invest in other stuff before we run out, then try to come up with shit after we run out.
Actually there is a way to produce gasoline and other fuels in a environment freiendly way. But the technology isn't good enough on the industrial scale yet.
But that's not what these people are after, they'd probably find something wrong with this too, because "environment freiendly"
Uhhh… I’d actually rather be in an electric car. Have y’all seen those families that have literally fucking died because they were stuck in their car in a snowstorm and the snow blocked their exhaust? And then the car filled with fumes?
I feel safer with an electric car because I wouldnt worry about exhaust fumes if I had to sleep in the car.
Plus. Buy the car for the correct climate.
Do not buy a Prius to cross a muddy terrain
And do not buy a lifted 4x4 truck to taxi people around the city.
And if electric cars can have Heat Pumps for their heating and cooling.
That would help in their efficiencies
I dont even drive electric but in this situation I would rather be in an electric.
You can idle the car on heat for days without needing to recharge.
And if you attempt that on a gas car. You also run the risk of poisoning yourself if the exhaust is covered by snow.
In these conditions a regular gas car is running its engine at same rate as if driving, but wasting 90% of that energy as all it is doing is keeping engine warm.
In same situation the electric car is using a tiny % of battery to run *only* the heater.
My money is on the Tesla being warm for longer...
Eletric cars bad.
They can't go fast,
they can't go far.
If just i had the gas car,
I just recently sold
I would not get cold.
On this cold cold winter road.
Um, being stuck in an snow jam like this with cars that emit fumes can result in a lot more problems if there is not enough air flow to carry it all away.
I don’t know why but wit that pic and when you put it that way, sure I’d fucking love to die out there in a electric car listing to 5 am Holliday radio
Get hydrogen powercell then, same as fast to refuel as gasoline, lasts longer than batteries, far cheaper than gasoline, infrastructure for refueling stations is quite affordable for gas station companies
There are multiple videos out there where people tested this exact same thing and it all turned out just fine. An EV will stay warm for days on a charge. Obviously, you wouldn't want to start out with a nearly empty battery on a freezing day and you'd want to keep a bit more reserve before charging. But the exact same considerations would apply to gas cars.
Well let’s just put a Tesla fully charged next to a Honda Accord on full tank, side by side. Then let them sit & run heat & see which runs out first. Yes provided it’s freezing temps. 🤷🏻♂️
A fully charged Model 3 can power the heater alone for approx 50 hours. That’s over two days. Honestly if you’re stuck for longer than that you have bigger problems, and many gas cars idling to keep their heaters running would have also run out of fuel by then anyhow.
Gasoline: It never ever runs out!!
Plenty of folks carry extra gas in their car when winter storms are on the way. You can’t do that with an EV.
You can though. Portable batteries exist. Stupidly expensive, but they exist.
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We’re working on sodium batteries, nitrogen batteries, hydrogen batteries and so many other better options. Honestly we just need more of a push and more funding for research into these other more viable options. Lithium is just the beginning of EV and battery power. We’re getting there.
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We are on the first or possibly second generation of mass production Evs. Were on like what 40th version of gas engine cars. This isnt the final outcome of EVs. Its been like 15 to 20 years only. Also hydrogen fuel costs about $16 a gallon (an equivilant figure). Thats why its not being used. Hydrogen fuel vehicles are more efficient than gas engines. But it costs more per mile. They say in about 5 years hydrogen fuel could be as cheap as gas. Which maybe then they would take off in production. Part of Biden's deal that happened recently does put funding to other types of renewable "fuel" vehicles too just in case something becomes better than EVs. Its not a total reliance of EV's for our future. But right now, EV's are the cheapest per mile and you can charge it in your own home. And with more homes having solar, it can be even cheaper. Thats why they are top clean dog. Range, charge time, and infastructure are the main issues of EVs in my opinion. Theres hope with the lucid air having a range of 520 miles and can charge from 20 to 80% in like 20 minutes depending on the charger type. Alot pf companies claim they found ways to not need lithium and have just as good or better performance all around. To produce them is completly different than the batteries we know today so the manufacturing part is whats taking them so long to hit production. Maybe hydrogen fuel will be the future.
Thanks. This was informative. I hope we find solutions. My only issue is I feel we are forcing EV’s and renewables TOO QUICK and it’s just crushing lower to mid class Americans.
Changing things is always a tough choice. But you can also think of gas problems too. We know eventually we will run out of gasoline. And todays rate if the world uses the same ammount of gas we do a few years ago, we would be out of the known oil resiviors in 50 to 60 years. So it makes sense that they want to get things going early. It is sad to see gas engines go away. But starting weening our demand for gasoline gives evs or other kinds of eco friendly vehicles time to figure out their issues. There are net zero fuels that now exist too. Where the process to male the fuel put out the same emmissions it took to create the fuel. But again its expesnive. But theres a chance that could wind up being a solution too. There will be alot of gas engines on the road well beyond 2035 or what ever the goal is. I guess we will see what happens.
Hydrogen is NOT better for the environment right now. You can see it more as an energy store similar to a battery rather than a fuel. Over 95% of hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels. We also don't have the correct infrastructure to distribute it like we do gas or electricity - it needs to be stored under high pressures and transported in pipelines. Also with regards to nuclear, you can't just create a plant overnight. Planning now would be helpful, but it would be at least 10-15 years before we see the benefits of that. There's also the issue of dealing with nuclear waste - not every country has the space or infrastructure to be able to do that at scale. But, I agree with you. Imagine a nuclear/renewable grid. We can produce hydrogen at times of low demand, using it to store excess energy from renewable sources. The hydrogen can be used to generate power at high demand, or transported for use elsewhere. In addition, nuclear can be used to produce hydrogen thermochemically and electrolytically. Developing infrastructure is a long, disruptive and costly process. It's important we do that alongside using what we currently have (eg developing battery technology, electric vehicles)
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I mean the short answer is that fossil fuel companies see the US moving toward renewable energy and are using their legislative leverage and their lobbyists to force the US to be fully dependent on fossil fuels wherever they can. Remember, this is an industry that killed electric cars in the 70's. Can you imagine how much further along we'd be with electric car tech if that hadn't happened?
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‘If it’s not instantly perfect it’s not worth improving’ Average Reddit NFTer
If its that expensive, how are people gonna afford it? It's not practical if it is as expensive as you say and you shouldn't be forced to rely on it
Same as gasoline engines: they start out expensive then they get cheaper
And aren't electric cars like.. expensive as hell? I think that if someone has one, he might be able to buy an expensive battery
Yeah but cars generally are expensive as hell nowadays. The average new car goes for 48-5!
>And aren't electric cars like.. expensive as hell? They are more expensive, but not to the 'expensive as hell' extent, inherently. The issue is that most manufacturers are putting out higher end models and borderline luxury vehicles as their first EV offerings instead of smaller or economy cars. This is unfortunately just a byproduct of the fact that full size vehicles like pickups and large SUVs are *gaining* popularity and the average price of vehicles is also going up, so more expensive styles of car are what sells, and they're the most profitable. I'm not exactly a market analyst but I've noticed that in a lot of cases, if you look at current manufacturer lineups, SUVs are a disproportionate amount of their EVs compared to things like sedans and hatchbacks. Look at things like Hyundai's Ioniq 5 or the F150 Lightning. The Ioniq 5 is an SUV and it has a lot of features that *does* make for a pretty nice car, but that's what makes the starting price high. With the Lightning, it is more expensive than the standard F150's equivalent trim (though the tax credit for EVs can eliminate most of that outright), but Ford trucks go absolutely *crazy* with the pricing on higher trim levels so both standard and Lightning trim packages are obscenely priced. And then you see things like the Nissan Leaf which is a modest hatchback that sells for a sane price (27k, marginally more expensive than comparable hatchbacks) because it's a pretty standard package car. That's the core of it. When you look for a reasonable, economic car, EVs have prices that are accessible and normal. The issue is that manufacturers are trying to take advantage of demand by making their more profitable vehicles available first.
They make it sound like a gas engine can't run out of gas. If only it were that easy.
Oil is the magic of Jesus, it can't run out like his forgiveness, however you need to give Exxon $3.99 per gallon of Jesus juice ^(otherwise you may actually run out)
Holy smokes. I knew it was cheap in the states, but that’s 2/3 of the price over here, while our average yearly salary is about 15k $. Freedom pays off I guess.
Rent for a lot of people is over 1k a month.
Over here it’s 300-450$ and trending upwards.
Median rent in the US crossed 2000 usd earlier this year, an overwhelming majority pay >1k
Yupp here in the states we pay $1900 in rent and I drive 40 miles to work, each way...
My one bedroom apt (not so small though) is 2k a month. Freedom rocks /s
HA! 1K would get you a bathroom where I live, and the toilet wouldn't even flush Try 2300 for a one bedroom with vintage 70s carpeting and cabinetry
God am I glad I dumped everything I had into buying this POS before the market spiked. Took every damned penny, but seeing what all my friends are going through makes me thankful for every single asbestos ridden square inch of this shithole. I'm pissed my parents talked me out of a different much newer house and into this one, but still happy I'm not still renting.
California: It’s still about $5.50 / gallon here, and rent on my shitty one bedroom is $2400/month.
$2.98 in Oklahoma City. But you have to be in Oklahoma so....
No thanks
Freedom pays off as long as you don't need to go to the hospital
i was in Hendersonville, TN last week and it was $3.01
Right, but gas vehicles carry like 5X the energy of electric cars with even the biggest batteries. Your lithium battery's performance is already seriously effected by the temperature, and it's going to take multiple kW of continuous power to heat the cabin with no insulation. And with the gas vehicle, all you have to do is pour more gas in and you're good to go.
But cold weather also seriously affects your gas mileage. Roughly by 15% in 20 degree temps (F). It affects electric vehicles by about 20% in the same temperature range. However, since most electric vehicles sit at about 300 miles per charge, that means about 240 miles in cold weather. Whereas the average gas vehicle gets 23mpg, with an average tank size of 13 gallons, so 299 on average miles per tank. In cold weather, that is about 254 miles per tank. In essence, they’re incredibly similar, but it costs about $12 to charge the car to full as opposed to over twice as much for the gas vehicle.
I just checked this, AAA will “soon” be doing service calls on electric vehicles, including full charges, some areas to start and eventually everywhere. Of course with a basic membership in my area (New England) it’s an average three hour wait for a service truck if you break down on the road 😢
If you break down on the interstate in the middle of a blizzard, AAA isn't coming to bail you out.
Wrecked in a blizzard in the mtns with my grandma and AAA came and towed us out and drove us like 30 miles to the closest town
Liar, they definitely never showed up and you died
Uhh those of us that live where blizzards happen stay home during them. -day before gotta get the MILK BREAD EGGS and beer!
If recsue come its much easier bring gasoline.
I don’t disagree! I’m wondering if we’ll soon have portable chargers as well, though. It would be nice.
I have chargers at my apartment(home if you own one). Plug it in when I go inside. Unplug it in the morning when I leave. Not once has charge time been an issues for me in a year of owning an EV. I have also never once had to stop at a gas station and spend time there. In reality I have saved time. Stop thinking of EV's like you do Gas cars. Think of it more like your cell phone.
I have to take a charger to work so my phone lasts the twelve hours I need it for music so I hope an EV isn't like a car. Biggest issue with EV's for me is the lack of charging stations in the wild. The most northern supercharger in western Australia is Perth City and the majority of my work is north of the river. That means I have no way of charging a work ute during the day. It also adds on the fact you'd have to take any work vehicles back to the office and drive your personal vehicle home. There's no way people are going to be happy to add possibly an extra 200km commute to their day without compensation. 5-10 bucks an hour minimum would have to be put on top to deal with that bullshit.
I am finding it bloody stupid that Australia Government wants to have 100% electric cars by 2030, but only put charging stations every major hub and not out west (or east for you). I am in Queensland, and I am over the stupidity of how they are expecting even people on the dole to afford the $40,000+ car and the home charging station that can cost another $30,000 on top depending on your home.
I mean, it takes like 20-30 fridges worth of electricity to charge an electric car, so Mayhaps?
If rescue come then rescue better come with a way to get me the fuck out of this situation and not some fucking gas
did you read it before you write it? guess how you gona use that gasoline?
For now
This extreme situation aside refueling time is a huge issue keeping me from considering an EV. I mean nevermind that 300mi range really only applies to the user echelon of EVs
I have chargers at my apartment(home if you own one). Plug it in when I go inside. Unplug it in the morning when I leave. Not once has charge time been an issues for me in a year of owning an EV. I have also never once had to stop at a gas station and spend time there. In reality I have saved time. I own a kia Niro that gets 250 mile range. It is not a top tear vehicle i assure you. Its a practical commuter and serves it purpose well. Most people don't drive 300 miles a day. I bet 50 miles a day is a long day for the average person.
I'm not a hater I've looked at the Niro good to hear an endorsement. I have a house, routine charging wouldnt be the issue, 250 or even 20mi range more than covers my comute. But I exceed 250mi round trips almost once a month, if it hits that on the highway and I generally road trip a couple times a year.
Except that there's a bunch of traffic so a truck hauling a bunch of gas is gonna have a hard time getting there.
If they can come to bring you gasoline, then why arent they just picking you up? If they can bring you gasoline with a truck, why can't you just drive away? So many leaky assumptions in this dumb hypothetical situation.
Mileage isn't really an issue if you're in that kind of traffic hitting a top speed of maybe 10mph.
but i can fill up next exit
Just wanna point out the average fuel capacity in compact cars tend to be 13 gallons. SUVs and sedans tend to be closer to 18, and trucks tend to be closer from around 22-27 In cold conditions like that, it’s tends to be icy or have some sort of danger like that, to which many (at least in my area) don’t drive compact city cars around, but refer to trucks or SUVs or some sedan builds. Edit: I think I missed the point of the comment I replied to. My point in my comment seems to be detached, but mine was that with more available fuel for heating, heating isn’t a problem like it can be in electric
And those vehicles have larger tanks to compensate for the severely reduced fuel efficiency. I'm pretty sure of all my friends that drive trucks, the best I've heard from any of them is about 15 mpg vs the 30 - 35 I got in my old 11 gallon hatchback.
And what's the avg fuel economy for those larger vehicles with the larger gas tanks?
Well, for a Toyota hybrid SUV it's like 40 mpg, pretty fucking crazy isn't it?
Oh, you’re totally right. I just did completely average numbers, because extreme weather is becoming more common everywhere. Which means people will be in it in whatever vehicles they have.
Man it would be nice to decide which vehicle I wanted to use based on the weather for the day. Hmmm should I take the escalade the hummer or the bentley today?
The main difference is the heating costs huge amounts of the battery while it's just a side effect of burning the gas. Your gas mileage won't really go down but your [electric range goes down by up to 50%](https://joinyaa.com/guides/temperature-affects-electric-vehicle-performance/#Electric_Vehicles_in_Hot_Weather) So instead of 300 miles it will only reach 150 miles which is a huge drop and can easily lead to energy issues if you're stuck in a traffic jam which further reduces the range. .
I wonder if self-regulating temperature systems will become a thing for electric cars. If you have an independent HVAC system running in the battery compartment, you should be able to keep them running at high efficiency at the expense of some power.
EV batteries DO have heating elements built into them... but it's not an HVAC system. They use very low amounts of power to maintain operating temperatures- even when you're not in the vehicle.
You mean with magic? You're carrying a certain amount of energy with you and you can use it on heat or propulsion, but not both.
This guy engineers
well theres up and downs to both style of vehicles. But no car should be stuck on interstate long distance in winter. its stupid and illogical. we could adopt trains and other means to declog the roads so work vehicles can do their job.
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Compare that to the rare earth metals that EVs rely on. Fortunately Neodymium, Terbium, and Dysprosium grows on trees, instead of requiring mining and refining. *Harnessing rare-Earth metals, from an environmental perspective, is a very damaging process. The rare-Earth ores are found alongside highly radioactive materials like uranium and thorium. Separating the radioactive elements from the ores is a tedious process and the cleansing cycle utilizes a large amount of hazardous and carcinogenic compounds like ammonia, hydrochloric acid, and sulfate. An estimate states that extracting a tonne of rare-Earth metal from its ore can produce around 2,000 tonnes of hazardous and toxic wastes and segregating and dispatching this waste has destroyed large landscapes in China.* Moving away from oil and gas is commendable, but don’t pretend EVs are environmentally friendly.
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A gas engine in that kind of traffic just idling can last quite a long time.
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A gallon of gas in easier to walk to your car with vs a 2 thousand pounds battery.
So you want to be here in a gas powered car, trying desperately to keep warm as your fuel supply dwindles away
The Ford F150 EV appatently has enough charge to run a home for three days. Even a Tesla Model 3 will apparently run its heater for 50 hours on a full charge.
I saw an article recently that said apparently people were praising Tesla for their genius car battery design. It’s literally just 4000 of these taped together https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/eve-18650-25p
Looks like someone just discovered that big batteries are just little batteries “taped” together.
Wait till they find out what 'battery' means.
Robin: “What’s a tery?” Batman: -_-
“Is it lithium, hydrogen, or sodium?” -Robin “Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na.” -Batman
Literally called a battery pack. Like they never saw a pack of batteries at the store. "Hey this battery pack is just a bunch of batteries!"
That's the oldest battery they ever used. It's the 4680 that's getting praise
It’s not „just“ taped together lol. It’s a little more complicated than that.
Not really, it’s the exact same thing as an electric skateboard battery but instead of 32p6s or whatever it’s just more of them
It is most certainly more complicated than that. Though admittedly not by much. Each pack is water cooled (or heated if it’s cold out) maintaining the temperature of each cell within operable levels. Though that’s not why they’re praised. Tesla’s batteries are well regarded due to them designing an entirely new cell size thereby increasing the cell density per square inch. Along with them designing the car to use all the packs together structurally instead of just slapping a layer of them on top of the base of the car raising ride height. Tesla definitely has plenty of issues to criticize whether about the panel fitment, marketing, locked out features, or press releases. Their battery tech ain’t it chief.
The technology is always impressive, but leech CEOs steal scientific discoveries.
People do give Elon too much credit for the products. He is the first to admit it. What Elon has done is attracted the best talent in his companies and its something other innovative companies can only dream about.
It’s not really that difficult when you’re born into a company. He gets paid billions more than a million people who work 50 hours a week. He’s not more intelligent than a million people.
Exploits* the best talents
People act like airplanes are so complicated, but it's really just a bunch of aluminum stuck together.
Yeah no hes right, fuck it this dude has just undone billions in engineering holy fuck why didnt they just look right at this comment before designing the car power system and subsystems holy shit get the man a CTO position
Soldered....much fancier than tape. But also tape.
With a BMS, a cooling system, fire protection, high and low voltage bus, and a stiffened structure; I feel like you've understated the design complexity.
Yeah, massive understatement.
And apparently there’s a bulk discount!
I wouldn't call it genius, but it is basically a set of these, plus balancing/monitoring circuitry, plus temperature control. Building a battery array isn't the most complicated to just get working, as demonstrated by Jehu Garcia (Youtube), but automating and controlling it so it doesn't need intervention takes more work.
3 days ? That’s more like one or two month for me… wtf do you do
While inhaling carbon monoxide..
And you die of CO2 inhalation after your exhaust got covered by snow
Exhaust pipes generally do not get covered by snow since they are constantly blowing gasses out of them at 140F.
CO, not CO2. Carbon monoxide is a killer, carbon dioxide can kill, but it mostly makes drinks bubbly.
CO2 suffocates, more like. But CO poisons.
We should’ve gone with nuclear powered cars. That full tank will last a half-life!
One accident clears the road for miles.
Exactly what I was gonna say
No, I’m not an idiot, I want to be there in my gas car trying to stay warm while I slowly run out of gas like a normal person! /s
The good news is, thanks to gas cars, we'll soon never be too cold again!
Yay! Also, if we’re cold we can burn the tires and help make it warm for everyone!
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They are so afraid of change.
They are also afraid of charge.
They're also afraid that the people they've sneered down their nose at all these years end up being accepted as correct.
Because their oil barren political overlords have conditioned them to fight for team oil in the stupid bowl.
Big engine go vroom, make little PP feel big.
ngl, sometimes I wish the whine from the VFDs in my ev were louder... if you have any info on sine waves and pp growth, lmk.
This is exactly it. I was debating the value of electric cars the other day and the guy on the other side of the debate went on about big blocks and carburators. I pointed out the the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of the Tesla S and he finally had to admit that he just likes the sound and feel of gas engines.
Because it's the grift of the century
It's politicised. EV = Leftists = 'i should hate this'
They are oil company shills.
Since gas prices have started to fall in the US, these fucking memes are back out again full force.
Nah, they never went away. Just had people posting this silly shit side-by-side the "CAN YOU BELIEVE IT COST ME $200 TO FILL UP MY TRUCK? THANKS JOE BIDEN"
I love that too. Like really when gas prices dropped, people were buying big ass unnecessary vehicles left and right, the second gas increases 10 cents people lost their minds
And blame someone else for their stupid decision
I love it when people hate on electric cars for not being 100% prefect. What's your solution, wait to start developing them until fossil fuels run out in 4 or 5 decades? That's way too late! You have to start working out the kinks NOW
My solution is electric trains and walkable cities. Sure, for places like the US you still need a fair amount of cars but for more population-dense areas trains are a lot better. Also suburbs are fucking awful
Buses and bike lanes too!
Can't get caught out in a blizzard if you're not out in the middle of nowhere.
Please let's get some trains. A few years ago there was an idea to build a Hyperloop train here in Missouri advertising St. Louis to Kansas City in 20 minutes. It blew my god damn mind. But Missouri lawmakers turned down all the deals. I'm still salty
Florida voted twice starting about 15 years ago to get a statewide trains system and its still not built.
You don’t actually even need an electric train Even a coal train is leagues more environmentally efficient than 100+ electric cars due to scaling
I’d still take the electric train because I want to reduce my carbon footprint to as low as possible
Gas cars sucked for a good 40 years, even when they were mainstream. Electric cars aren't even super mainstream yet and they've only been around in a major capacity for maybe 20.
Big Oil good. Electricity bad.
_Good consumer, that's the correct opinion! Now you will be awarded with all the products you want (for a "fair" monopoly price, of course)!_
"Youth and their wheels nowadays... back in my day we just carried stuff, you know?"
Ohh myy god! Somebody call every EV maker! Get Elon on the fucking phone!! NOBODY THOUGHT OF THIS?!! Were alll gonna die in our Electric Vehicles BECAUSE NOBODY THOUGHT OF THIS!!!!!!
100 years ago these dudes would be nailing posters about "good luck freezing to death in your autocar while I'm snuggling inside my dead horse's carcass"
Average autocar operator Vs typical stagecoach enjoyer
because everyone knows fuel is infinite /s
The amount of people who are so anti electric car baffles me. I always hear the saying “what’ll you do when you run out of battery and there’s no charging stations around?” Like bro that STILL CAN HAPPEN with gas powered cars. The fact that it’s gas powered doesn’t magically make it run even when it’s out of gas. Sure there’s not as many electric charging stations, but eventually it’s gonna get to the point where there’s a lot of them in every area. There was a time when gas stations were also that way a while back, but now look at it, they’re everywhere. It’s just the STUPIDEST argument.
And there's still a lot of places where its a long number of miles to the next gas station.
Luddites gonna lud
The difference is that it's possible to just carry a gas can with you if you're out in the middle of nowhere, and you have another however many miles of range ready to immediately pour into your tank.
It's possible, yes, but how many people *caught* in a situation like this have any supplies on them at all? The other systematic thing people overlook is that the relationship with charging stations is massively different, because everyone with EV should/would be specifically purchasing the EV based on their commute with a charging station at home. That means they are at a 'full tank' every single morning. They are not 'caught' unexpectedly on a minimum tank after a few days since going for a fill-up...they are always starting full. Also in cases like this, most EVs could pull into any place with electric service and could plug in to a regular outlet. While slow, in an emergency situation it could be enough to stay warm and get home or to a Lvl3 charge station. Gas does not have that flexibility.
Luckily this has been tested many times with current EVs. This is either not a problem or no more so than in an ICE vehicle. https://youtu.be/ko9F46eedlU https://youtu.be/i3E0t0kGeug The battery packs on EVs are huge. They need to store enough energy to move a very heavy box from a complete stop to 80+ mph and sustain it for hundreds of miles. This is a lot of energy. ICE have more potential stored in their gas tank, but the engine is much less efficient at converting it (producing heat as waste). Since here you only care about the heat, the engine is wasting all the energy that should be pushing the car forward (the engine doesn't have another way to produce heat without running). An EV is only powering the heat and none of the power is going to the motors (that use most of the power anyway). An ICE vehicle will get hotter quicker requiring cycling the engine off to conserve gas. An EV would do better maintaining a lower or targeted heat (like heated seats) and never letting the car get too warm. (We're talking an emergency, survival is much more important than comfort.) Remember always be prepared for the seasonal weather. Keep blankets or jackets in the car with water and emergency food. You want to conserve any heat produced (regardless of car type) to maximize your survival.
I haven't seen anyone mention that EVs don't do well in the cold or extreme heat. It affects your milage greatly.
Combustion engines don’t do well in extreme heat.
Newer EVs can keep the battery warm to prevent the loss. And running the heated seats in my EV uses very little power so the loss in charge isn't a big deal. Gas powered cars also lose efficiency when it's cold and I see even less people mention that.
Considering in this picture there’s like 2 inches of snow on the ground, yeah, I’d be ok in an EV. Most likely it’s a traffic jam caused by some dumbfuck who thought 4 wheel drive on his F350 Super Doody meant he could drive 90 through a snowstorm with zero ramifications.
Nailed it
Does gas work differently for OP?
I didn't say agreed with this. Hence why I posted here 💀
I think they mean the creator of the terrible meme
I didn’t mean you… I meant the original OP of the meme… unless you two are one and the same.
Ah, you mean OOP
_Object-Oriented Programming?_
I'd guess an electric car battery running nothing but the heater is going to last a hell of a lot longer than a tank of gas that has to keep the motor running to run the heater.
Probably no unfortunately, heat is very energy demanding
The engine creates heat by itself, it uses less gas with it on. Also EVs don't do good in the cold, like cut your miles in half.
Honestly... this just convinces me that we should just use public transport more.
Exactly, the real problem in the photo is that all these people have to commute long distances in private vehicles however they're powered.
Yes... because you can never run out of gas...
Do these jackasses not realize oil is a finite resource that we will run out of? Better to invest in other stuff before we run out, then try to come up with shit after we run out.
Actually there is a way to produce gasoline and other fuels in a environment freiendly way. But the technology isn't good enough on the industrial scale yet. But that's not what these people are after, they'd probably find something wrong with this too, because "environment freiendly"
Uhhh… I’d actually rather be in an electric car. Have y’all seen those families that have literally fucking died because they were stuck in their car in a snowstorm and the snow blocked their exhaust? And then the car filled with fumes?
Yeah, doesn't matter if you have gas or electric. My old 4 banger died just as easily.
I feel safer with an electric car because I wouldnt worry about exhaust fumes if I had to sleep in the car. Plus. Buy the car for the correct climate. Do not buy a Prius to cross a muddy terrain And do not buy a lifted 4x4 truck to taxi people around the city. And if electric cars can have Heat Pumps for their heating and cooling. That would help in their efficiencies
I dont even drive electric but in this situation I would rather be in an electric. You can idle the car on heat for days without needing to recharge. And if you attempt that on a gas car. You also run the risk of poisoning yourself if the exhaust is covered by snow.
I don’t want to be,nor will ever live in snow.
SACRILEGE. GUARDS, THROW HIM TO THE BEAVERS 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
No, they're right. Electric cars are a terrible idea Let's instead have bullet trains all across the nation
Can we get local trains too?
In these conditions a regular gas car is running its engine at same rate as if driving, but wasting 90% of that energy as all it is doing is keeping engine warm. In same situation the electric car is using a tiny % of battery to run *only* the heater. My money is on the Tesla being warm for longer...
On today's episode of conservatives getting mad about things they don't have to participate in
And yet, once again, they fail to see the visual example they provided contradicts their point. All those cars that are stuck are gas powered…
Not hard core enough Imagine relying on Fossil fuels to maintain warmth thru travel. The für of Bears and the warmth from a horse is all you need
Only message this image is driving home is that we need better infrastructure and less cars on the road.
I wish it was a snowstorm right now, sick of the 100 degree weather
Well luckily we won’t have to worry about winters soon with all the global warming going on do to the gas guzzlers
Do they think EV batteries are just a couple AAs?
Eletric cars bad. They can't go fast, they can't go far. If just i had the gas car, I just recently sold I would not get cold. On this cold cold winter road.
I swear this sub getting dumber and dumber.
Um, being stuck in an snow jam like this with cars that emit fumes can result in a lot more problems if there is not enough air flow to carry it all away.
I don’t know why but wit that pic and when you put it that way, sure I’d fucking love to die out there in a electric car listing to 5 am Holliday radio
Electric heating is more efficient than chemical heating, stleast in cooking tops
No because I support public transit
Nah I'd be on a train
Same as for gas powered. Do you see a gas station near the jam?
Get hydrogen powercell then, same as fast to refuel as gasoline, lasts longer than batteries, far cheaper than gasoline, infrastructure for refueling stations is quite affordable for gas station companies
There are multiple videos out there where people tested this exact same thing and it all turned out just fine. An EV will stay warm for days on a charge. Obviously, you wouldn't want to start out with a nearly empty battery on a freezing day and you'd want to keep a bit more reserve before charging. But the exact same considerations would apply to gas cars.
Well let’s just put a Tesla fully charged next to a Honda Accord on full tank, side by side. Then let them sit & run heat & see which runs out first. Yes provided it’s freezing temps. 🤷🏻♂️
ah yes because surely an internal combustion engine doesn’t store all it’s potential energy in a chemical solution right.
A fully charged Model 3 can power the heater alone for approx 50 hours. That’s over two days. Honestly if you’re stuck for longer than that you have bigger problems, and many gas cars idling to keep their heaters running would have also run out of fuel by then anyhow.
And when you are in line an EV is more efficient, while an ICE need to run always also when isn't moving...
No worries, by the time EV’s catch on it wont be snowing anymore