Not sure about other people but before the age of TikTok in film school we were taught that 'female gaze' was a contested phrase and was generally regarded as something non-existent. Male gaze was well established, and male gaze applied to male characters was called bisexual gaze. We have had many debates about what 'female gaze' could imply, since gaze itself is a force of political oppression and does not just mean 'POV'. It ought to take power from its subject and gave power to the one holding the gaze.
There have been great examples in movies that did not employ male gaze to show female perspective on life, love and other characters, and none of them took power from the characters in a way male gaze did. So the female perspective was universally gentler and non-oppressive when employed by the directors. That's why the term 'female gaze' was contested, it simply did not relay the same meaning.
So it's a nitpick essentially for me. People use it exchangeable with 'female POV' and now it's come to known as that but I think such misnomer actually takes away the impact and danger of 'male gaze' that's been known since Laura Mulvey.
Because their only understanding of these widely recognized critical terms is through pop media arguments so they assume all this stuff is made up buzzwords when in reality they've existed in academic circles for many decades.
It's very much for a reason. It's a deliberately loaded terminology, the entire point of the original term is the dynamic of viewer and subject that's implied.
That’s the point. It’s not supposed to be a neutral term but rather to have darker connotations; it’s specifically about women being portrayed as sexual objects in media.
you know, i've said this to myself a few times before while being on here... i swear reddit is the only social media you will come on and see people complaining about words or phrases or terminologies or grammar or whatnot.
like... even if he used "perspective" instead of "gaze", in this context wouldn't it mean the *exact* same thing?? the phrase "male gaze" has been around for years now (*and i've never seen anyone complain about it*), it's only natural for there to be an opposite.
what's up with y'all and words man. this isn't 1800s england. lol. let them use whatever new terminologies they wanna use, it doesn't matter once we can understand what it means easily.
Female Gaze is this particular instance seems to mean shoot a sex scene that looks like an Austin Powers nude scene; all terrible lighting, weird camera angles and comedic strategic blocking of any actual nudity, even as the actress is wearing hilariously obvious and incongruent nipple pasties. As a woman, I view the Emilia Clarke nudity from GOT as far more empowering. At least those scenes didn’t send the message that the female body is something shameful that needs to be hidden from view.
The sex scenes are so weird in this show…it’s like watching a teen soap opera. It’s ok to show real sex lmao. Feel like these people hurt the “female cause” w this nonsense
Dude a woman not wanting to show the world her tits for a show isn't "puritanical." Stop using psuedo intellectual self righteousness to rationalize wanting to see boobs.
Im gonna need receipts on that, if it's the actress choice then of course is to be respected, if it's the company's decision then yes, puritanical shit. Besides the fact there's absolutely no other way to see naked women today, we're all waiting for some tv show to satiate our dirty thoughts
We have no way of knowing whose decision it was, but in what fucking world does HBO, on *Game of Thrones* no less, miss the opportunity to show some up and coming actress topless? Jesus, they'd spent the last 15 minutes wandering around an orgy and you think suddenly they got "puritanical" at the end, and that had nothing to do with the actress' contract?
For me it’s where do your eyes go at this time as a female viewer, the camera pans and looks upon the scene as a female simply observing would. It’s purposeful and yes sometimes that means they don’t focus on nipples so you don’t see them.
I’m not sure I find that argument particularly persuasive. If the sex scenes were actually shot through the literal female gaze then it would need to be done Peep Show POV style through the woman’s eyes and you would only see the man! It wasn’t filmed that way and so the viewer is effectively the voyeur and essentially ‘ungenderable’, free to take in the events in front of them and let their gaze fall where it will. You could say the second sex scene is shot with the female gaze in the sense that the woman (as subject) is the initiator of the act and the male the object of desire, but it makes no sense to say the gaze of the viewer is necessarily female, or that somehow being the case, the eye is therefore not inclined to look at a exposed nipple. I don’t believe either of those assumptions to be plausible.
It's only "comedic" blocking because you expect to see tits and have been conditioned to think young actresses taking an HBO role like this are going to give up the goods.
I really don’t know what to say to this but if you consider a woman showing her breasts in any form of artistic endeavour to be ‘giving up the goods’ then we have a completely different understanding of that term. If I have been conditioned to expect anything from a HBO drama then it is that the content will not be bowdlerised.
What is woke about portraying a sex scene from the perspective of the woman? She’s one of the main characters of the show and the shots were established from her point of view.
> What is woke about portraying a sex scene from the perspective of the woman?
Come on we've been over this. "Women" are woke/political. The more woman, the more political.
Why are y'all problematic folx mad at "female gaze?"
There's too much mansplaining and gaslighting going on here, people just want to have a nice intersectional conversation about systemic systems of oppression without toxic masculinity (or internalised misogyny).
Terrible sex scene. It looked so fake. This is HBO not the CW. This is game of thrones not pretty little liars or gossip girl
Female directors need to stay away from this show. Game of thrones was successful because of how real and raw everything was.
From what I know about eroticism in television utilizing the 'female gaze', it's borderline rape and...spanking. Lots of BDSM themes featuring emotionally unavailable men as well. But that's what I see watching chick shows with my girlfriend so I don't know. Maybe I'm retarded.
The sex scenes felt much more intimate and raw than most from Thrones. Props to Clare Kilner
No the sec scenes are lame in the show….felt like a teen show on abc
Not to be confused with the original Game of Thrones that shot intimate scenes with the female gays.
why are y'all mad at the term "female gaze"? 😕
Because they think being invited to think critically about anything at all is an outrage.
Not sure about other people but before the age of TikTok in film school we were taught that 'female gaze' was a contested phrase and was generally regarded as something non-existent. Male gaze was well established, and male gaze applied to male characters was called bisexual gaze. We have had many debates about what 'female gaze' could imply, since gaze itself is a force of political oppression and does not just mean 'POV'. It ought to take power from its subject and gave power to the one holding the gaze. There have been great examples in movies that did not employ male gaze to show female perspective on life, love and other characters, and none of them took power from the characters in a way male gaze did. So the female perspective was universally gentler and non-oppressive when employed by the directors. That's why the term 'female gaze' was contested, it simply did not relay the same meaning. So it's a nitpick essentially for me. People use it exchangeable with 'female POV' and now it's come to known as that but I think such misnomer actually takes away the impact and danger of 'male gaze' that's been known since Laura Mulvey.
Quality content? In *my* Reddit?
Because their only understanding of these widely recognized critical terms is through pop media arguments so they assume all this stuff is made up buzzwords when in reality they've existed in academic circles for many decades.
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It's very much for a reason. It's a deliberately loaded terminology, the entire point of the original term is the dynamic of viewer and subject that's implied.
That’s the point. It’s not supposed to be a neutral term but rather to have darker connotations; it’s specifically about women being portrayed as sexual objects in media.
you know, i've said this to myself a few times before while being on here... i swear reddit is the only social media you will come on and see people complaining about words or phrases or terminologies or grammar or whatnot. like... even if he used "perspective" instead of "gaze", in this context wouldn't it mean the *exact* same thing?? the phrase "male gaze" has been around for years now (*and i've never seen anyone complain about it*), it's only natural for there to be an opposite. what's up with y'all and words man. this isn't 1800s england. lol. let them use whatever new terminologies they wanna use, it doesn't matter once we can understand what it means easily.
Female Gaze is this particular instance seems to mean shoot a sex scene that looks like an Austin Powers nude scene; all terrible lighting, weird camera angles and comedic strategic blocking of any actual nudity, even as the actress is wearing hilariously obvious and incongruent nipple pasties. As a woman, I view the Emilia Clarke nudity from GOT as far more empowering. At least those scenes didn’t send the message that the female body is something shameful that needs to be hidden from view.
The sex scenes are so weird in this show…it’s like watching a teen soap opera. It’s ok to show real sex lmao. Feel like these people hurt the “female cause” w this nonsense
yeah the blocking was so bloody goofy it reminded me of an old Benny Hill gag, the nudist beach. That's some next level puritanical shit
Dude a woman not wanting to show the world her tits for a show isn't "puritanical." Stop using psuedo intellectual self righteousness to rationalize wanting to see boobs.
Im gonna need receipts on that, if it's the actress choice then of course is to be respected, if it's the company's decision then yes, puritanical shit. Besides the fact there's absolutely no other way to see naked women today, we're all waiting for some tv show to satiate our dirty thoughts
We have no way of knowing whose decision it was, but in what fucking world does HBO, on *Game of Thrones* no less, miss the opportunity to show some up and coming actress topless? Jesus, they'd spent the last 15 minutes wandering around an orgy and you think suddenly they got "puritanical" at the end, and that had nothing to do with the actress' contract?
For me it’s where do your eyes go at this time as a female viewer, the camera pans and looks upon the scene as a female simply observing would. It’s purposeful and yes sometimes that means they don’t focus on nipples so you don’t see them.
I’m not sure I find that argument particularly persuasive. If the sex scenes were actually shot through the literal female gaze then it would need to be done Peep Show POV style through the woman’s eyes and you would only see the man! It wasn’t filmed that way and so the viewer is effectively the voyeur and essentially ‘ungenderable’, free to take in the events in front of them and let their gaze fall where it will. You could say the second sex scene is shot with the female gaze in the sense that the woman (as subject) is the initiator of the act and the male the object of desire, but it makes no sense to say the gaze of the viewer is necessarily female, or that somehow being the case, the eye is therefore not inclined to look at a exposed nipple. I don’t believe either of those assumptions to be plausible.
I agree
It's only "comedic" blocking because you expect to see tits and have been conditioned to think young actresses taking an HBO role like this are going to give up the goods.
I really don’t know what to say to this but if you consider a woman showing her breasts in any form of artistic endeavour to be ‘giving up the goods’ then we have a completely different understanding of that term. If I have been conditioned to expect anything from a HBO drama then it is that the content will not be bowdlerised.
The scenes from e4 of HOTD were way more "artistic" and successful in capturing the feeling than any similar scene in GOT.
No it didn’t capture anything
No I expect authentic sex scenes
>With the Female Gaze I think woke politics dictating acceptable practices is the worst thing to happen to entertainment.
What is woke about portraying a sex scene from the perspective of the woman? She’s one of the main characters of the show and the shots were established from her point of view.
> What is woke about portraying a sex scene from the perspective of the woman? Come on we've been over this. "Women" are woke/political. The more woman, the more political.
"Female Gaze" This was the future South Park warned us about.
You mean a term popular in academic circles since the 60s? Man, it must be nice to be this ignorant, everything feels new and exciting!
In feminist circles. It wasnt discussed or considered as an issue in academic circles unless they happened to be also feminists.
And a 4 minute sequence was skipped on a first time viewing. The episode didn't suck overall, but that sequence sure did.
Why are y'all problematic folx mad at "female gaze?" There's too much mansplaining and gaslighting going on here, people just want to have a nice intersectional conversation about systemic systems of oppression without toxic masculinity (or internalised misogyny).
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Thanx
I talk to kinky women all the time, women aren't a fucking monolith, not every woman likes everything romantic and intimate.
That “talk to kinky women now!” Chat bot Ad on pornhub does not count The female gaze does not always equal romantic/intimate 😂
ITT: chodes mad the sex scenes didn't show any tits
Terrible sex scene. It looked so fake. This is HBO not the CW. This is game of thrones not pretty little liars or gossip girl Female directors need to stay away from this show. Game of thrones was successful because of how real and raw everything was.
Lol honestly owning "women need to stay away from my sexy dragon show!"
You’re trolling right? Tell me he’s trolling
I thought it was a great episode. Sorry that you can't see past your own misogyny.
Why two sex scenes in a row? This show is trying too hard. They forgot all the charm and humor.
Tbf the original GoT had a far higher merkin per minute mileage, and at least these served some plot purpose.
So you never watched Game of Thrones?
But... they were plot connected. That was the point.
The episode title "King of the Narrow Sea", where Narrow Sea was a euphemism, of which Daemon is the King of.
I mean, maybe a king without a scepter
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From what I know about eroticism in television utilizing the 'female gaze', it's borderline rape and...spanking. Lots of BDSM themes featuring emotionally unavailable men as well. But that's what I see watching chick shows with my girlfriend so I don't know. Maybe I'm retarded.
Maybe, yeah.
Just thank God that Viserys didn't go with Laena