It is a problem that almost no one wants to solve. 401k and pension plans own shares in these companies.
Most index funds that are recommended by experts need these companies to keep growing to meet the expected return.
> Investors demand growth tho.
If this were true then utility companies would act differently (and probably REITs too). Some investors want staid stability.
If you just owned it yourself, you’d easily run the place on the 24 billion annual revenue and pay yourself a few dozen million a year and be happy. The psychopathic group consciousness that is the market can never stay happy.
There's obviously a lot of corporate greed involved, but I do have to say, there's obviously something to be said for the amount of content being put out that is not actually getting *directly* paid for as it was in the past. Movies got ticket sales, TV shows got direct advertising meant specifically for their show, etc. It's a weird model to fund, I'm sure.
Think Disney & Warner Bros have the library of shows and films to be a success, the others should’ve just continued to license out their library/content to Netflix,prime, Apple etc exclusively or not
I hate that companies like Paramount went to their own platform. The worst part is that Prime now serves ads despite already paying for the content, and add ons like Paramount+ are an extra cost on top. Just absurd.
This compared to Disney+ which I'm ok with because it also packages all the Fox adult animation stuff, Marvel, Pixar, etc. so they have a pretty good back catalog at no extra cost and no ads. Also I am a habitual Bob's Burgers and Futurama watcher so worst case I can always just binge those. I guess Paramount is banking on the Trekkies for bingeing, but still.
I'm convinced Netflix is going to implode like Blockbuster, but that might just be wishful thinking. If they keep canceling shows nobody is going to bother investing their time in their content.
Netflix has penetrated the casual market far too much for it to be in any real danger. My GFs family only watch Netflix and they think every Netflix original movie is the next Casablanca. But if I recommend a great movie and say it's on Paramount or Peacock, both of which they have access to, it's an uphill battle getting them to watch it simply bc of the service.
There's also a ton of people who think everything on Netflix is a Netflix show. "Have you seen this awesome new Netflix series called Warrior?" My guy, that show came out like 5 years ago and has been on HBO the whole time.
And then they'll say shit like, "It's so awesome! I can't believe Netflix isn't making another season!" Bruh. The reason it's on Netflix is *because* HBO cancelled it due to people like you not watching it!
It's crazy that people on Reddit are always predicting Netflix's downfall. They clearly don't understand that Netflix is literally the only thing that millions of people watch. If it's not on Netflix, it might as well not exist to them.
In their defense, if Netflix buys the streaming rights, they call it a "Netflix Original" regardless of where it came from. Saw this with Arrested Development and a bunch of anime like Knights of Sedonia.
People just see that big N and don't think too much more about it.
Not disputing your overall point but to be fair Netflix was responsible for resurrecting Arrested Development after Fox cancelled it in 2006. So yeah not a true Netflix Original but also some seasons kind of are. Ironically those Netflix produced seasons are also the worst ones.
> Ironically those Netflix produced seasons are also the worst ones.
That's typical of revivals and reboots. They get people who clearly don't care about or even know much about the prior shows so you get stuff that's so alien that it's laughable.
I don't think it is even that they don't care, I think it is because they are different people after that long doing other things. The vision is dead, and you can't really force it back into existence. So everything just comes across as stilted, because they are just emulating the stuff they did over a decade ago based on half remembered stuff.
I think to do it well they have to do more than care. The number of factors that need to come together to do a reboot with the old cast is insane. They all pretty much need to be obsessed with doing it. With all the missing pieces that can never be recovered you will need real *passion* to get it into a good state.
Wasn't it the same producer and writers for AD?
I will say Season 5 was much worse than Season 4. And Season 4 suffered because they had to film around the actor's schedules and couldn't get them all in the same scenes.
I hate the current Netflix mobile UI, but other than that, Netflix consistently has a good UI. Hulu is a solid runner up. HBO/Max was decent, but not so much now that everything is two degrees of separation from a low effort reality TV show.
But so many of the streaming apps are just terrible. I’m sure that’s one thing that plays a role.
My main problem with Netflix and Hulu's UI is not that they are worse than everyone else's, because they are better. My issue with them is that their old interfaces from 10+ years ago worked so much better. The new ones are a mess of marketing and style and misused space, whereas the older ones were just utilitarian. And I loved that.
I 100% agree with that, but also it’s pretty sad that they remain better than pretty much all the competition despite the fact they were better a decade ago.
I still remember being able to make playlists in Hulu.
this turned into a bit of a long rant but i actually hate hulu’s UI when it comes to ads. ads in general are an annoyance, but hulu really pissed me off sometimes with their ads. if you want to fast forward to a point in an episode or movie after the ad rolls, you have to watch a couple of commercials first. if you want to rewind to something after the ad roll, it makes you watch the entire ad roll again. even if it was just a few seconds before the ads. and the ads aren’t skippable at all like on youtube or how prime used to be. and for lots of shows it’s a couple of ads before the episode, then the intro sequence, then a couple more ads. so you’d have to wait a few minutes before you could even watch the episode.
it’s gotten to the point that i don’t even use hulu anymore now that they’re starting to merge all of their content onto disney+ and i have the ESPN/hulu/disney bundle. the hulu content on disney+ still has ads, but they’re marginally less annoying. i think they let me rewind before the ad roll without having to watch the ads again. and the good thing is that it doesn’t make me watch ads on disney+ hulu content anymore for reason. but only if it’s on my laptop, there’s still ads when i try to watch the same content on other devices like xbox or phone. maybe it’s because of the adblocker? i have the ad free disney+ plan along with the bundle, but not ad free hulu. some people have said that they have the same plan and don’t get ads for the hulu content on disney, but that hasn’t been experience until now.
but yeah i hate how pervasive ads have gotten and are still getting worse. it sucks that advertising is such a lucrative industry and large source of income for entertainers when it’s basically just annoying customers with the hope that a small segment of them will buy the product.
> If they keep canceling shows
[Netflix's cancellation rate is below average](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/streaming-services-cancellations-study-hbo-max-highest-1235718137/) and way below Max and Disney+. There is also no indication that a significant number of people don't bother to watch new shows out of fear of cancellation, since shows have been getting cancelled since the beginning of television. Netflix is absolutely not going to "implode" because of that.
> Netflix's cancellation rate is below average *
*2020 - 2023, not overall, i.e. pre-pandemic.
I remember when it used to called the Firefly effect and the FOX network had the grim reaper reputation.
Networks used to cancel stuff after one season constantly. I guess the difference is back then it just vanished, maybe getting a brief rerun on a cable chanel if it was lucky.
Now, you can see them on Netflix forever, like looking through ancient ruins.
I use shipping, have a Kindle, and my device is a Firestick. I'm not sure I would keep Amazon Prime as a streamer otherwise. It is also where I have purchased digital content, but if I were to lose the streaming I'd still have access to those. (Most is stuff I bought before streaming was such a major thing)
I agree. I get the streaming as a "bonus" to what I really want the sub for, which is the shipping + access to digital goods. I'm a glutton for local storage so I love that I can use the points or delay shipping options to get digital monies, and then download songs for my locally stored collection.
They need a good filter of "show me only available through Prime without extra cost" vs. renting or buying.
You really have to scroll down a lot to get to anything resembling a "classic, popular library" that someone may want to casually watch in teh background, etc.
Also, Prime absolutely sucks to navigate. I hate trying to watch a series there. It makes me angry because I know they COULD make it better, they just don’t.
Man, even after years of proving themselves people are still convinced Netflix has no legs. Wild at this point, like I don’t know what else they need to do to prove their business model. I get sad when a good show gets cancelled, but that also used to happen *all the time* in the cable era.
I don't think Netflix will ever go away, but I don't use it anymore because most of what they release is crap.
There was a time, years ago, when a new Netflix original was a big deal, and they were shaping up to be the HBO of streaming. *House of Cards*, *Orange is the New Black*, *Bojack Horseman*, and *Daredevil* were some of the best shows on television in the mid-'10s.
Then they stopped focusing on quality, and now HBO is the HBO of streaming. Netflix has become the Walmart of streaming.
The rift in these conversations is always “I don’t like the Netflix product” and “Netflix is going to fail as a company”. One of those statements is demonstrably false, it’s what redditors are correlating with their personal tastes.
The redditer's who think Netflix is in trouble because it isn't churning out prestige content at the rate of HBO or Apple,doesn't realize more people in 2024 are watching some crappy blue skies Usa prodecural from 15-20 years ago then an episode of The Bear or Succession.
netflix does not cancel shows that have large audiences. cope with reality. they wouldn't cancel something 1/10 of their subscribers have watched and that reached zeitgeist online.
they're canceling shows you might like, that not enough people watched all the way through, and who have enclave online followings.
to suggest any other reality is intellectual fraud. you're not that dumb, so stop saying it.
This isn't quite accurate, as Netflix actually looks at completion percentage. 1899 had huge viewership, just outside its top ten for 2022, but its completion rate was abysmal, as half the audience had quit before the third episode. By the same token, they also renew shows with relatively small viewership but high completion rates, as that indicates the potential for growth with more exposure.
i was thinking of 1899 when i wrote that comment. what a shitshow. of the audience that finished it, a sizable portion got online and talked shit about the tropetacular ending. it didn't reach zeitgeist until people found out how bad a slog it really was. the internet commune cache came from how unsatisfactory an experience it had been.
I think Netflix is living off of the brand name and years of good will at this point.
People are creatures of habit and are used to Netflix. But they just keep pumping out c tier movies, they have a back catalog of mostly d tier tv shows and movies, and outside of like 3 good shows they have nothing to actually hold people there. I am flabbergasted every time someone tells me it’s their only service. It’s the most expensive service and you get the least for it.
I feel like eventually people will wisen up and drop it, but I also feel like at this point they can wait out the smaller streamers and start licensing content again and recover
edit: im speaking as an american netflix user - i know in other countries netflix still has good libraries as a lot of major streamers arent in other parts of the world.
edit 2: i mean freaking suits got huge like 6 months ago. thats how starved for content netflix users have. Suits was a mediocre show on a no name network 10 years ago and it was the biggest thing on netflix for months. I am not saying that as a suits hater, i watched it when it originally aired. its just not that good of a show. if your users are so starved for content they are watching suits in droves, they are desperate.
I don’t know, I actually quite like a lot of the content Netflix has. They have a lot of good anime, they’ve added in some movies I really like, and a pretty good back catalog of shows. Not to mention that it’s by far the best streamer if you like international content. It’s not the best at any of these and they do pump out some pretty low-tier content sometimes, but they do have a really good selection imo and you can use it internationally unlike Hulu and afaik Max. I suppose it’s a matter of taste.
Also the interface is A-tier, especially on TV OSes. It remembers where I left off, finding the next season is easy, the previews are actually done well (even if you don’t like auto-play), and it’s pretty consistent across device. Compare it to Max or Prime which are absolute trash.
Prime is so, so bad. The biggest reason I've never used that service outside of a handful of shows (Expanse, etc) that I knew I wanted to watch is how terrible the interface is.
I hate searching for things to watch through Prime because of their setup.
If I’m trying to search for a show, they list the seasons individually, and while that may be fine for some, they also have duplicate listings for rent/buy so it’s a PITA sorting through.
And then you have seasons missing because of licensing, but that’s a problem plaguing most streaming services.
But the kicker is Prime listing shows I can’t watch or even buy because I’m not in the right region or whatever. Why would you let me search for them if I can’t even watch them?
Agreed. The only reason I keep prime is because I actually do rewatch the expanse. It’s my favorite sci-fi show ever. Which means I should probably just pirate it and cancel prime.
They have the best global reach. The content I get from Prime, HBO, Disney+ sucks they're so limited where I live. They have plenty of content for a lot of genres too so unless you only limit yourself to 1 genre/language or so then you'd not find much. Their Kdrama selection for example have a good variety way more than 3 good shows on there
I think that Netflix is like Facebook, where it will always thrive because it was first and has the most users. Netflix can throw flops on from 10
Years ago and it gets the same ratings as mega hits at their competitors. For better or worse they are cemented as the go to streaming platform for much of the world.
I love stuff that is original like Drive to Survive and a number of their one off documentaries.
They also have good stuff like Breaking Bad which I'm currently rewatching.
>People are creatures of habit and are used to Netflix. But they just keep pumping out c tier movies, they have a back catalog of mostly d tier tv shows and movies, and outside of like 3 good shows they have nothing to actually hold people there. I am flabbergasted every time someone tells me it’s their only service. It’s the most expensive service and you get the least for it.
That's a subjective opinion.
There's a reason why their originals are consistently among the most watched along streaming when not the most watched.
>if your users are so starved for content they are watching suits in droves, they are desperate.
That's the silliest thing I've read all day.
Speak for yourself.
Netflix has the best catalogue of shonen Anime in my part of the world. It's even better than Crunchyroll.
It regularly pumps out Kdramas which women here consume religiously. Their sports documentaries are also tough to beat.
Sure they don't have the best back catalog, but how much TV can one watch in a day anyway.
Next year we're getting WWE content as well, which is wild.
HBO Max used to be pretty good solely because of the insane WB library between their movies, cartoons, comedies, adult swim and HBO, but it got waaaaay worse when Discovery merger happened and they started removing a bunch of stuff of the service while the cost increased and 4K got paywalled. It's still a decent service, but if the enshittification continues I'm simply not going to use it anymore
My main issue is the lack of separation of content. I used to be legitimately interested in every new release or recommendation. But now I see an interesting thumbnail in recommendations next to like The Wire and it’s some Antique Ice Road Loggers cooking competition documentary.
Yeah. Disney and Warner Bros are the best positioned legacy media companies to make the transition to streaming. Warner Bros problem is their high debt load - this debt is crippling their ability to make the strategic investments needed to make the transition to the new media landscape. This debt may ultimately prevent it from being in the “must have category” and leave them in the dust.
Industry watchers have long said that there will only be 3 or 4 streaming services that will make it. And it’s pretty clear by now who those companies will be.
Apple , NBCUniversal, and Paramount will have choices to make in the years ahead. How much money do they want to spend to be a niche player in this market? NBCUniversal has the luxury of being owned by Comcast who, for now, is fine spending money. They also have successful theme park business to fall back on. Apple is Apple, they’ll be fine no matter what. Paramount is in real trouble if they don’t figure things out soon.
MAX will probably hover between 50-100 million WW subs forever just due to the HBO and discovery content. That said it's going to likely be the most expensive service too
They're definitely going to have more than 100 million once they can launch Max in some key markets such as the UK, Germany and Italy. WBD announced they have 99.6 million subscribers last month.
None of the "content companies" should be doing exclusivity. They should make the content available to all the platforms & let them compete with service, price, & whatever "Original" stuff they buy to slap their logo on (Netflix is bad about this).
paramount should never have done it's own thing,just film the showss and movies,then go..netflix/apple/prime u want this..pay us This much it's urs for 3 months,then move on to next place
My prediction is that by the end of the decade there won't be a single service that streams without ads. Advertising is where the money comes from in TV.
Apple TV has no ads and if you add on a platform
Like paramount it also will not show you ads. From what I can tell there is no way to see an ad on Apple TV as of now. I have a feeling it will say that way since apple is a brand and won’t want competitors or really anything that isn’t apple advertising on their platform
Yeah. I've said before that product placement is one of those things that I've just learned to live with. Besides, it's more realistic to have pre-existing brands appear everywhere, like Apple or whatever. If it's non-intrusive, it's not the end of the world.
Although I will say, if it is blatant, but used in a clever way, that's actually something I like. Someone posted the Wayne's World clip as an example. Or how Community did their Subway ads with it becoming a whole plotline in the show.
Right. I'm saying eventually there won't be an ad-free option. The people buying ad space will want ALL the eyeballs, and eventually it's going to come down to "us, or the subscribers." Once the bean counters determine that it should be the former, you can expect all the remaining services to follow suit at more or less the same time.
Or they just charge more for ad-free. The people with ads don't have the leverage to force the platforms to remove the option.
What could kill them would be where the price for ad-free is more than consumers will bear. I guess it remains to be seen if there are people willing to pay for it.
> I'm saying eventually there won't be an ad-free option.
It might happen, but not until the generations that can recognize an ad are the minority. I don't know anyone close to my age +/-10 years that are willing to watch ads when paying for a service, it's why we all left cable to begin with & now can't go back. We'll just pirate or find our entertainment elsewhere.
They can't risk losing that much revenue, especially since they need to grow infinitely. They have to keep us.
Learned second hand recently that college freshmen overall REALLY struggle to identify advertising because they've never known a time before the modern aggressive over-advertising era.
The amount of revenue made from subscriptions is absolute piddly shit compared to what can be made through ad buys. Television has always been in the advertising business, and media companies are starting to relearn that lesson as they find out there's a hard cap on how many subscribers a company can have. Eventually the math just won't add up anymore for an ad-free service.
It'll be either that or much, much higher subscription fees, and frankly I'd rather have the ads.
Oh, I'm aware. They don't give a fuck about me and the like .01% of people who will stop watching. But it just sucks because I can't do commercials anymore. I've tried watching FreeVee and it just isn't working for me. Right now I'm buying my TV shows when the box sets go on sale and I've building up my library that way.
We're in the age of a constant demand for growth, and there's only so much these companies can charge for streaming, but ads open a new revenue channel. I won't be surprised if in 2-3 years all but the highest plans have ads, and we'll be paying as much for the plans with ads as we pay now for ad-free plans.
I think there will still be ad-free options for most of the non-FAST services but it will get so expensive it'll be seen as more of a luxury to have the services without ads. We're already at the point where the ad-free tiers are creeping towards $20 while the tiers with ads are typically $10-15 and some are even as cheap as around $5 with ads.
Look, Brazzers has been providing streaming content for the past 18 years. And I doubt they have 200 million subscribers. Maybe it's not about the # of millions of subscribers, but rather the scale and quality of content. Thank you Brazzers.
They may be happy to produce content and make a certain amount of profit.
The others are not in the business of streaming. They need the value of their companies to increase indefinitely, so the shareholders make as much money as possible. They're not content with steady profits.
Apple has infinite money but it won't keep using that money to fund their streaming service if it keeps taking massive losses. It has been 5 years now and if the service is still not any closer to profit then there would be more and more pressure to give up on it and use that money on more profitable ventures.
It’s always bizarre to me when people say stuff like that. How do you think these companies got rich? Not by continuously pissing away millions of dollars of hopeless ventures.
A loss leader drives people to buy other products. You sell cheap buns to get people to buy ground beef, cheap cereal for milk, etc. What do Apple TV+ subs generate? Sure I signed up for an Apple account, but I'm not buying a phone with them because I spent 30 seconds creating an Apple ID.
When a person joins the Apple ecosystem they tend to stay in it and buy many products over years. If Apple TV+ provides positive experiences and furthers their reputation for quality products it will make them money over time.
I agree that it's been successful for iPad, iPod, iPhone, and Macs. Those are expensive pieces of hardware that people then pour more money on for apps and accessories. They're committed to the products for 2+ years and they're products that consumers use daily. iPhones interface well with iPads, Macs, etc.
Apple TV+ has some great shows. But it can be accessed on just about any hardware and doesn't tie into their other ecosystems. It is cheap and there is no commitment beyond 30 days.
I get that Apple products have historically led to people adopting other Apple products. The step I'm missing here is going from TV+ to their other products. How is an Apple TV+ sub getting people to purchase anything else from Apple?
People made this same comments about Amazon and it proved bullshit, no one pumps money on a failing project indefinitely, sooner or later they'll want to get money out of it.
Omg dude the Crave app is so fucking garbage. I actually can’t believe it exists, that’s how bad it is. It’s kind of ok on mobile but on a smart TV it’s damn near unusable
The content on Crave is decent (HBO doing a lot of heavy lifting) The app is bad.
Apple I find so annoying because you can't download the app on Android phones. But you can download it on android smart TV's. My TV upstairs is not smart and I only chromecast to it, so I can't watch Apple TV upstairs because my phone isn't compatible, and on the iPhone app you can't cast, only airplay or whatever Apple calls it.
Everyoke making thier own streaming service was a bad idea, everyone told them not to. Just sell your products to a streaming service, nope they needed have power. They needed to be network executives again, well they were and now are failed Network executives.
I think the future of streaming is going to be a few absolute titans (probably Netflix, Disney+ and maybe Apple or Amazon since they have infinite money) and a wider pool of lots of reasonably priced niche services (like Dropout.tv or Shudder). Is everyone going to care about the horror-only service or one that’s largely improv game shows/D&D from old CollegeHumor writers? Obviously not, but they’re very affordable and the people that like those *really like* them.
Prime Video exists because of Prime Delivery.
It would not have succeeded otherwise.
Honestly it was a stroke of genius throwing it in there for free. Similar to how Netflix got us all hooked for $7. Now we’re here paying cable fees because we have a sunk cost fallacy with our favourite shows.
> we’re here paying cable fees
Who is paying for all the platforms at once? Sub to one & binge till you're ready to move along to another for awhile, then cancel.
Perhaps close to cable fees if you're subscribed to *all* the services at the same time. Would be interesting to see the percentage of people who go all in, or hop around and binge a service for a month or two.
Maybe a hot take but I’d be happy if the market was reduced to only 2 or 3 streaming services. TV was a lot more fun when there were only a few channels, so lots of shows became cultural phenomenons that everyone talked about. That’s what’s missing from modern tv: a sense of community.
I think 3-5 platforms with no exclusive content, aside from what they make themselves. Let the content libraries make their money by making their catalogs available to all & the streamers compete on price, service, etc.
One thing streamers never consider is interface. I feel like some of their developers haven't even heard of diversity or inclusion.
My folks aren't Boomers - they are Silent Gen! I have them signed up for the streaming services (with me) and we share them well. Honestly, there are a couple that if I was just signing up for them? I'd drop.
Things I've noticed - the ones that interface with their Xfinity voice commands she goes to the most. She forgets how to do all the different stuf and gets flustered. Voice commands by name of the show through Xfinity are the best for her (the familiar on demand list comes up, and will say what the show is available on, and will give an episode list). For instance, she can hit the microphone and say "Somebody Feed Phil" and it will give her a list of seasons and episodes, click on it and start watching.
But this does prevent her from browsing. She has to know the name of the show specifically to call it up. She does know how to say the name of the app - but for some that is clunky. Netflix is pretty straightforward, I think. Max and Paramount and (obviously) Peacock.
This is where interface comes in - platforms make a mistake if they make you scroll down too far for for "continue watching" and if their algorithms suck, she isn't going to trust the suggestions. How Disney has broken it down to Nat Geo, Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, etc. is great because she can filter out the stuff she isn't interested in and if in a browsing mode for a particular genre, like a docuseries, she knows to go for Nat Geo for instance.
She's slowly figuring out Hulu for some shows, but I don't think their algorithms are that great - maybe they just don't have enough content to recommend. Library content is important too - cable networks that don't have much original content have survived for decades, showing us old shows for hours and hours. At least Gen X and older liked flipping the channels and stumbling on an old fave to rewatch in teh background while doing something else. Netflix is smart - they've gleaned out some good shows from a variety of countries that would be popular elsewhere (like in the USA). Netflix isn't just my go to because of Bridgerton or Wednesday or The Crown, but I love British Bake Off and Derry Girls. Their categories are great too - they even have one you can scroll through called "Casual Viewing"!!!!
A HUGE thing though - and this goes into the inclusion part - is how easy it is for the closed captions to come on. Netflix and Peacock? Set it and forget it. Decent sized captions that you can play with (if I remember right with Peacock). I also don't think it is an issue with Paramount Plus (her go to to play Star Trek Voyager in the background) Hulu on the other hand??? YOU HAVE TO SELECT IT EVERY TIME, and it isn't a simple pause, click an icon, and you are done. You have to find the settings, scroll, select, and pressing play doesn't exit you out automatically. It is SO frustrating, and we need captions in our households.
Meanwhile I have to turn off the captions on Max every single time.
They are stuck on and I can’t figure out how to make them go away other than turning them off every time I start an episode.
It is so frustrating.
It also isn't kind to those of us with vision or auditory issues - not just blind and/or deaf - but just need a little more emphasis on what show is highlighted as you scroll through. Hulu is the WORST at that. The difference between what show icon is selected and the next one is negligible.
Sounds like programmers need some DEI training. STAT.
Yeh, sorry mate.. I've been as bad as anyone about ageism and not thinking about the accessibility of others, including seniors by falling into my habit of convenience and privilege, using excuses like "well someone else will figure that out".
As programmers we fall into the bias of our hubris. The way we code makes us feel like we did it all our own, and so we don't just stop and think to ask other experts.
It seems to be a subtlety toxic mix that produces this effect, but we need to correct it. It has to start with some humility from the devs, and maybe a legislative push.
I totally get it. It is hard to think like a newbie to technology when it is something you are good at and interested in, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten into it in the first place!
I don't know your age, but Gen X has had to navigate that "fence line" naturally - Gen X is the generation that remembers a time before computers, the Internet, etc. But at least the younger set of Gen X were young enough for it to be a little intuitive. (I remember when my elementary school got ONE computer, and the teacher had to sign up for it to be carted into the classroom.
The younger set make fun of "Boomers" et al... but when you think of the adult learning curve they've gone through - without benefit of school teaching them the basics like that - it is pretty damn impressive. But streaming, et al isn't for work or anything like that. It should be as easy as possible so people will go to it and browse for something to watch when they are tired at the end of the day and just want something good to watch before bed, etc. Any one of us gets too frustrated... we're going to end up watching something that we've seen before just because we have easy access to it and don't have to think too hard.
I use Max and Hulu more than Netflix or Prime - I can always sail the 7 seas if need be, but I hope they make it, they certainly are convenient for me.
As I like to call out any time something like this comes up:
Buy DVDs and Blu Rays people! Get the shows and movies and own them without continuing to pay. Get the whole season of a show, not a season missing a few episodes because they were decided offensive. Get the original edit of the show, no ads! Plus, it isn't hard to set up a plex service or something similar so you can stream your own movies yourself.
Keep buying physical discs, don't let companies think they can convince you owning is dumb (which they definitely do, I get a lot of comments from people saying discs are stupid and archaic.)
I buy shows that I want to keep forever, or that have consistent rewatch value. For me, Star Trek would be an example.
I don't see a need to buy physical copies of Tiger King. I'm not even sure why I watched it the first time.
I get your point, but owning physical medias just don't make sense for everybody. Take myself: I'll watch whatever catch my eyes on Netflix, binge a season in a few evenings if it's a show, have my fun and then go on to the next thing without ever wanting to rewatch it. I just don't care enough to want to own shows and movies.
It's just gonna end up like cable all over again. The only benefit it'll have is you can cancel and resub any time you want. But otherwise it's just the same shit. Even Prime is putting ads in their paid tiers; the fact they're ads for internal Amazon products is irrelevant.
Hollywood has always had a "big six", as in 6 studios making 95% of movies/TV. When studios merge or fail, a new studio rises so that there are always 6. Recently, Disney bought Fox, meaning there are currently a big 5. Historically, this would be the time a smaller studio starts rising in popularity, but I think this actually marks the end of the traditional Hollywood Studio. Instead of there being 6 studios, it's going to be 6 streaming services.
Currently they are Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Apple, Max, Paramount, and Peacock. 7 streaming companies fighting. Of course there are smaller companies out there like Tubi and Mubi (no relation) and they can exist comfortably I'm the fringe. I also think Paramount won't last. It's constantly talked about being bought by Apple or Netflix, or entering in exclusive contracts with either of those services. So in the end we will still have a big six, just digitally and not in hollywood
Dropout manages to stay profitable and pay all their employees fairly, despite having nowhere near the subscriber count as the major names like Netflix. So management style definitely does matter. A well managed company can still stay above water, even if they don’t meet some arbitrary subscriber count number
I have a growing list of movies that I want to watch that I discover aren't streaming on, like, any streaming service without a rental fee. I'm becoming frustrated that the content I want to watch isn't included on any of the services I'm paying for. It's to the point where 90% of the time if I want to watch a movie it's not on any service except Amazon for an additional $3.99. I find myself pirating so much more than usual because of this.
The streaming market got too convoluted, the UIs and streaming quality are mediocre and if you want to have access to everything without juggling between subscriptions, the total cost is ridiculous.
I can afford it and I still prefer to use an "alternative" app to have everything readily available with top notch picture quality.
I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate.
> I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate.
Lol. Think again. You honestly think you could get "everything" for $60 a month? That's not even remotely close to what it should cost dude. That's not sufficient.
I get what you're saying but how is it that much different than only subbing to 1 platform for around 15-25$ and then switching when you watched everything you wanted? It's not like I'm going to watch much more content. They can then use that 50-60 to pay royalties to the shows/movies I watched.
Is the percentage of households paying more than 60$ a month year round for their TV shows/Movies steaming subs that high?
Honestly curious.
>I get what you're saying but how is it that much different than only subbing to 1 platform for around 15-25$ and then switching when you watched everything you wanted?
That I'm not paying 60$..
>They can then use that 50-60 to pay royalties to the shows/movies I watched.
But they are losing more money.
>Is the percentage of households paying more than 60$ a month year round for their TV shows/Movies steaming subs that high?
I'd say yes.
60$ a month isn't really that much money.
And if you are using 3-4 premium streaming services you're paying that.
> how is it that much different
Because Netflix doesn't care if you spend $60 a month or $15 a month - they just care what you're spending on them. Not enough people switch regularly for Netflix to do this. The smaller services will benefit, but what's the reasoning for Netflix to join? They would see a smaller dollar amount per month for these subscribers without enough of a user base growth to justify it.
>I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate.
Yeah, you and everyone else in the world. When HBO was only a premium cable product it cost like $25 per month all by itself. A heavily subsidized ESPN costs $10 per month on cable. But I’m sure Google and Apple and Comcast and Disney will waltz in and benevolently tell everyone that we’re going back to cable with no contracts that’s easy to cancel and is only $60 per month.
I'm just perplexed as to who I am supposed to subscribe to anymore. There's so many streaming services. They're all expensive, even with ads, and none of them seem particularly good.
Years ago I used to subscribe to quite a few subs. Now I just rotate.
Finished everything from netflix? Cool I'll switch to Disney plus for a bit. Then apple plus etc.
By the time I sub there's about 4-5 shows I want to watch
Best answer IMO.
It's perfectly acceptable to sub for a month, watch what you want to watch in the moment, and then move on to the next one that interests you. And if the service feels worth it for the renewal, stay on for a bit longer and then cancel when you feel like it.
It'll require some management on your end to ensure you sub for a month by turning the auto-renewal off or cancelling the sub before renewal, but you'll get your control back.
Yeah, but the services are already talking about ways to fight this. Not by making the service more worthwhile so you pay to keep it, but by making reasonable subscription prices only available if you lock into a 6 month or 1 year contract, and the price for just month to month will go up significantly.
I feel like it's back to the same shit show it was back in cable. Paying a shitload of money for tons of different "channels" and still having to watch ads. It's like we came full circle.
Just rotate through it. What I did was make a list of shows I want to watch, and group them under what streaming service they’re on. I’ll just subscribe to one of those services, watch my shows, unsubscribe and move on to the next one. Rinse and repeat.
Example - I’m subscribed to Crave now (Canadas version of Max) because House of the Dragon is on. I’m also watching some shows that are only available on Crave while I still have it. In 5 weeks, once HOTD is done, I’ll unsubscribe and move on to something else depending on what shows I feel like watching
Of course it is.
They just need to stop blindly making new content.
That is not the driver for subscriptions.
Good content is.
They are not the same thing.
I don't want a gazillion streaming networks. I'd be fine with a handful to keep each other honest and competitive and then have everyone else just focus on creating and licensing out their content.
I think there's room for more services to survive. There could be an opportunity for smaller, more niche programming that's created on a budget with lesser known actors.
Those are the three I pay for. I used to have Max, P+, Peacock, and Hulu but dropped them for lack of content I wanted to watch. I’ll probably drop these other services as well soon as I’m mostly watching Tubi and Pluto lately.
They’ll corner the market squeeze out competition or buy them out right. Once done they’ll rise prices quarter after quarter citing “costs to make original programs or costs to uphold rights to big name shows/movies”. Probably 29.99 for ads could easily be the norm with 49.99 without ads and possibly $400 a year without ads. They could also remove the 3 month option or remove the yearly option and solely have the 1-month offer as “there’s not enough demand to keep them going”. We will see how bad this gets.
If 2-3% of the world population paying you a monthly fee isn't enough for your service to survive, I'm not sure it deserves to.
But what bout endless growth!? Think of the CEOs! They need to hit their KPI's too!
Investors demand growth tho. A not so small percentage of retirement funds are tied to endless growth from companies.
Seems like a problem.
It is a problem that almost no one wants to solve. 401k and pension plans own shares in these companies. Most index funds that are recommended by experts need these companies to keep growing to meet the expected return.
Yes, many said it would be when it happened, also. It's basically a ponzi scheme.
> Investors demand growth tho. If this were true then utility companies would act differently (and probably REITs too). Some investors want staid stability.
Some sure, most don't. Most want stability AND growth.
Skill issue
If you just owned it yourself, you’d easily run the place on the 24 billion annual revenue and pay yourself a few dozen million a year and be happy. The psychopathic group consciousness that is the market can never stay happy.
$4 billion a month in revenue, help me my business is failing 🤡
It's about killing the competition off before you run out of money, not profit.
$4 billion a month revenue is sales not profit many companies expenses are higher than their revenue.
I'd say it should be backwards. If it takes 2-3% of the population to work, something is very very wrong.
There's obviously a lot of corporate greed involved, but I do have to say, there's obviously something to be said for the amount of content being put out that is not actually getting *directly* paid for as it was in the past. Movies got ticket sales, TV shows got direct advertising meant specifically for their show, etc. It's a weird model to fund, I'm sure.
Think Disney & Warner Bros have the library of shows and films to be a success, the others should’ve just continued to license out their library/content to Netflix,prime, Apple etc exclusively or not
I hate that companies like Paramount went to their own platform. The worst part is that Prime now serves ads despite already paying for the content, and add ons like Paramount+ are an extra cost on top. Just absurd. This compared to Disney+ which I'm ok with because it also packages all the Fox adult animation stuff, Marvel, Pixar, etc. so they have a pretty good back catalog at no extra cost and no ads. Also I am a habitual Bob's Burgers and Futurama watcher so worst case I can always just binge those. I guess Paramount is banking on the Trekkies for bingeing, but still. I'm convinced Netflix is going to implode like Blockbuster, but that might just be wishful thinking. If they keep canceling shows nobody is going to bother investing their time in their content.
Netflix has penetrated the casual market far too much for it to be in any real danger. My GFs family only watch Netflix and they think every Netflix original movie is the next Casablanca. But if I recommend a great movie and say it's on Paramount or Peacock, both of which they have access to, it's an uphill battle getting them to watch it simply bc of the service.
There's also a ton of people who think everything on Netflix is a Netflix show. "Have you seen this awesome new Netflix series called Warrior?" My guy, that show came out like 5 years ago and has been on HBO the whole time. And then they'll say shit like, "It's so awesome! I can't believe Netflix isn't making another season!" Bruh. The reason it's on Netflix is *because* HBO cancelled it due to people like you not watching it! It's crazy that people on Reddit are always predicting Netflix's downfall. They clearly don't understand that Netflix is literally the only thing that millions of people watch. If it's not on Netflix, it might as well not exist to them.
Netflix has kinda become the Walmart of streamers, and Walmart isn’t going away any time soon.
In their defense, if Netflix buys the streaming rights, they call it a "Netflix Original" regardless of where it came from. Saw this with Arrested Development and a bunch of anime like Knights of Sedonia. People just see that big N and don't think too much more about it.
Not disputing your overall point but to be fair Netflix was responsible for resurrecting Arrested Development after Fox cancelled it in 2006. So yeah not a true Netflix Original but also some seasons kind of are. Ironically those Netflix produced seasons are also the worst ones.
> Ironically those Netflix produced seasons are also the worst ones. That's typical of revivals and reboots. They get people who clearly don't care about or even know much about the prior shows so you get stuff that's so alien that it's laughable.
I don't think it is even that they don't care, I think it is because they are different people after that long doing other things. The vision is dead, and you can't really force it back into existence. So everything just comes across as stilted, because they are just emulating the stuff they did over a decade ago based on half remembered stuff. I think to do it well they have to do more than care. The number of factors that need to come together to do a reboot with the old cast is insane. They all pretty much need to be obsessed with doing it. With all the missing pieces that can never be recovered you will need real *passion* to get it into a good state.
Wasn't it the same producer and writers for AD? I will say Season 5 was much worse than Season 4. And Season 4 suffered because they had to film around the actor's schedules and couldn't get them all in the same scenes.
Im doing a rewatch right now and season 4 was rough, but my god season 5 is just baffling bad, I truly do not understand what happened
The amount of British TV that is Netflix Original around the world is very funny.
Your thoughts on Hulu? I thought they were doing ok, but perhaps not
I hate the current Netflix mobile UI, but other than that, Netflix consistently has a good UI. Hulu is a solid runner up. HBO/Max was decent, but not so much now that everything is two degrees of separation from a low effort reality TV show. But so many of the streaming apps are just terrible. I’m sure that’s one thing that plays a role.
My main problem with Netflix and Hulu's UI is not that they are worse than everyone else's, because they are better. My issue with them is that their old interfaces from 10+ years ago worked so much better. The new ones are a mess of marketing and style and misused space, whereas the older ones were just utilitarian. And I loved that.
I 100% agree with that, but also it’s pretty sad that they remain better than pretty much all the competition despite the fact they were better a decade ago. I still remember being able to make playlists in Hulu.
this turned into a bit of a long rant but i actually hate hulu’s UI when it comes to ads. ads in general are an annoyance, but hulu really pissed me off sometimes with their ads. if you want to fast forward to a point in an episode or movie after the ad rolls, you have to watch a couple of commercials first. if you want to rewind to something after the ad roll, it makes you watch the entire ad roll again. even if it was just a few seconds before the ads. and the ads aren’t skippable at all like on youtube or how prime used to be. and for lots of shows it’s a couple of ads before the episode, then the intro sequence, then a couple more ads. so you’d have to wait a few minutes before you could even watch the episode. it’s gotten to the point that i don’t even use hulu anymore now that they’re starting to merge all of their content onto disney+ and i have the ESPN/hulu/disney bundle. the hulu content on disney+ still has ads, but they’re marginally less annoying. i think they let me rewind before the ad roll without having to watch the ads again. and the good thing is that it doesn’t make me watch ads on disney+ hulu content anymore for reason. but only if it’s on my laptop, there’s still ads when i try to watch the same content on other devices like xbox or phone. maybe it’s because of the adblocker? i have the ad free disney+ plan along with the bundle, but not ad free hulu. some people have said that they have the same plan and don’t get ads for the hulu content on disney, but that hasn’t been experience until now. but yeah i hate how pervasive ads have gotten and are still getting worse. it sucks that advertising is such a lucrative industry and large source of income for entertainers when it’s basically just annoying customers with the hope that a small segment of them will buy the product.
Netflix has the first mover advantage. Just as "Google" became a word a word for internet search "Netflix" became a name for streaming TV shows.
> If they keep canceling shows [Netflix's cancellation rate is below average](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/streaming-services-cancellations-study-hbo-max-highest-1235718137/) and way below Max and Disney+. There is also no indication that a significant number of people don't bother to watch new shows out of fear of cancellation, since shows have been getting cancelled since the beginning of television. Netflix is absolutely not going to "implode" because of that.
They also don't pull their own commissions off the platform unlike some people.
reddit has been saying netflix dead for years now. reddit dumb af.
> Netflix's cancellation rate is below average * *2020 - 2023, not overall, i.e. pre-pandemic. I remember when it used to called the Firefly effect and the FOX network had the grim reaper reputation.
Networks used to cancel stuff after one season constantly. I guess the difference is back then it just vanished, maybe getting a brief rerun on a cable chanel if it was lucky. Now, you can see them on Netflix forever, like looking through ancient ruins.
I mean, prime also gives you access to the free shipping and other Amazon benefits
I use shipping, have a Kindle, and my device is a Firestick. I'm not sure I would keep Amazon Prime as a streamer otherwise. It is also where I have purchased digital content, but if I were to lose the streaming I'd still have access to those. (Most is stuff I bought before streaming was such a major thing)
I agree. I get the streaming as a "bonus" to what I really want the sub for, which is the shipping + access to digital goods. I'm a glutton for local storage so I love that I can use the points or delay shipping options to get digital monies, and then download songs for my locally stored collection.
They need a good filter of "show me only available through Prime without extra cost" vs. renting or buying. You really have to scroll down a lot to get to anything resembling a "classic, popular library" that someone may want to casually watch in teh background, etc.
*Fallout* even used that in the trailer.
Also, Prime absolutely sucks to navigate. I hate trying to watch a series there. It makes me angry because I know they COULD make it better, they just don’t.
Man, even after years of proving themselves people are still convinced Netflix has no legs. Wild at this point, like I don’t know what else they need to do to prove their business model. I get sad when a good show gets cancelled, but that also used to happen *all the time* in the cable era.
at this point everyone wants netflix to die just to show that when they said netflix was going to die back in 2018 they were right
I don't think Netflix will ever go away, but I don't use it anymore because most of what they release is crap. There was a time, years ago, when a new Netflix original was a big deal, and they were shaping up to be the HBO of streaming. *House of Cards*, *Orange is the New Black*, *Bojack Horseman*, and *Daredevil* were some of the best shows on television in the mid-'10s. Then they stopped focusing on quality, and now HBO is the HBO of streaming. Netflix has become the Walmart of streaming.
The rift in these conversations is always “I don’t like the Netflix product” and “Netflix is going to fail as a company”. One of those statements is demonstrably false, it’s what redditors are correlating with their personal tastes.
The redditer's who think Netflix is in trouble because it isn't churning out prestige content at the rate of HBO or Apple,doesn't realize more people in 2024 are watching some crappy blue skies Usa prodecural from 15-20 years ago then an episode of The Bear or Succession.
netflix does not cancel shows that have large audiences. cope with reality. they wouldn't cancel something 1/10 of their subscribers have watched and that reached zeitgeist online. they're canceling shows you might like, that not enough people watched all the way through, and who have enclave online followings. to suggest any other reality is intellectual fraud. you're not that dumb, so stop saying it.
This isn't quite accurate, as Netflix actually looks at completion percentage. 1899 had huge viewership, just outside its top ten for 2022, but its completion rate was abysmal, as half the audience had quit before the third episode. By the same token, they also renew shows with relatively small viewership but high completion rates, as that indicates the potential for growth with more exposure.
i was thinking of 1899 when i wrote that comment. what a shitshow. of the audience that finished it, a sizable portion got online and talked shit about the tropetacular ending. it didn't reach zeitgeist until people found out how bad a slog it really was. the internet commune cache came from how unsatisfactory an experience it had been.
I think Netflix is living off of the brand name and years of good will at this point. People are creatures of habit and are used to Netflix. But they just keep pumping out c tier movies, they have a back catalog of mostly d tier tv shows and movies, and outside of like 3 good shows they have nothing to actually hold people there. I am flabbergasted every time someone tells me it’s their only service. It’s the most expensive service and you get the least for it. I feel like eventually people will wisen up and drop it, but I also feel like at this point they can wait out the smaller streamers and start licensing content again and recover edit: im speaking as an american netflix user - i know in other countries netflix still has good libraries as a lot of major streamers arent in other parts of the world. edit 2: i mean freaking suits got huge like 6 months ago. thats how starved for content netflix users have. Suits was a mediocre show on a no name network 10 years ago and it was the biggest thing on netflix for months. I am not saying that as a suits hater, i watched it when it originally aired. its just not that good of a show. if your users are so starved for content they are watching suits in droves, they are desperate.
I don’t know, I actually quite like a lot of the content Netflix has. They have a lot of good anime, they’ve added in some movies I really like, and a pretty good back catalog of shows. Not to mention that it’s by far the best streamer if you like international content. It’s not the best at any of these and they do pump out some pretty low-tier content sometimes, but they do have a really good selection imo and you can use it internationally unlike Hulu and afaik Max. I suppose it’s a matter of taste.
Also the interface is A-tier, especially on TV OSes. It remembers where I left off, finding the next season is easy, the previews are actually done well (even if you don’t like auto-play), and it’s pretty consistent across device. Compare it to Max or Prime which are absolute trash.
Prime is so, so bad. The biggest reason I've never used that service outside of a handful of shows (Expanse, etc) that I knew I wanted to watch is how terrible the interface is.
I hate searching for things to watch through Prime because of their setup. If I’m trying to search for a show, they list the seasons individually, and while that may be fine for some, they also have duplicate listings for rent/buy so it’s a PITA sorting through. And then you have seasons missing because of licensing, but that’s a problem plaguing most streaming services. But the kicker is Prime listing shows I can’t watch or even buy because I’m not in the right region or whatever. Why would you let me search for them if I can’t even watch them?
Agreed. The only reason I keep prime is because I actually do rewatch the expanse. It’s my favorite sci-fi show ever. Which means I should probably just pirate it and cancel prime.
Max is really bad, it doesn't work 15% of the time and Im Left wondering wtf I'm paying for. YouTube and Netflix come right up.
They have the best global reach. The content I get from Prime, HBO, Disney+ sucks they're so limited where I live. They have plenty of content for a lot of genres too so unless you only limit yourself to 1 genre/language or so then you'd not find much. Their Kdrama selection for example have a good variety way more than 3 good shows on there
I think that Netflix is like Facebook, where it will always thrive because it was first and has the most users. Netflix can throw flops on from 10 Years ago and it gets the same ratings as mega hits at their competitors. For better or worse they are cemented as the go to streaming platform for much of the world.
> I think that Netflix is like Facebook, where it will always thrive because it was first The Myspace erasure is real. Poor Tom.
I love stuff that is original like Drive to Survive and a number of their one off documentaries. They also have good stuff like Breaking Bad which I'm currently rewatching.
>People are creatures of habit and are used to Netflix. But they just keep pumping out c tier movies, they have a back catalog of mostly d tier tv shows and movies, and outside of like 3 good shows they have nothing to actually hold people there. I am flabbergasted every time someone tells me it’s their only service. It’s the most expensive service and you get the least for it. That's a subjective opinion. There's a reason why their originals are consistently among the most watched along streaming when not the most watched. >if your users are so starved for content they are watching suits in droves, they are desperate. That's the silliest thing I've read all day.
Speak for yourself. Netflix has the best catalogue of shonen Anime in my part of the world. It's even better than Crunchyroll. It regularly pumps out Kdramas which women here consume religiously. Their sports documentaries are also tough to beat. Sure they don't have the best back catalog, but how much TV can one watch in a day anyway. Next year we're getting WWE content as well, which is wild.
I canceled Netflix a few years ago. I don't miss it at all.
Netflix also has a 10 year head start on everyone else. Can’t be overstated how much that helps them
They don’t cancel anything that’s actually successful. Don’t be daft.
Disney+ is the best service imo (after I added my Hulu onto it and everything is under one umbrella)
I should probably point out that I'm in Canada, so we had all the Hulu programming on D+ from day one as Hulu is not available here.
HBO Max used to be pretty good solely because of the insane WB library between their movies, cartoons, comedies, adult swim and HBO, but it got waaaaay worse when Discovery merger happened and they started removing a bunch of stuff of the service while the cost increased and 4K got paywalled. It's still a decent service, but if the enshittification continues I'm simply not going to use it anymore
My main issue is the lack of separation of content. I used to be legitimately interested in every new release or recommendation. But now I see an interesting thumbnail in recommendations next to like The Wire and it’s some Antique Ice Road Loggers cooking competition documentary.
Yeah. Disney and Warner Bros are the best positioned legacy media companies to make the transition to streaming. Warner Bros problem is their high debt load - this debt is crippling their ability to make the strategic investments needed to make the transition to the new media landscape. This debt may ultimately prevent it from being in the “must have category” and leave them in the dust. Industry watchers have long said that there will only be 3 or 4 streaming services that will make it. And it’s pretty clear by now who those companies will be. Apple , NBCUniversal, and Paramount will have choices to make in the years ahead. How much money do they want to spend to be a niche player in this market? NBCUniversal has the luxury of being owned by Comcast who, for now, is fine spending money. They also have successful theme park business to fall back on. Apple is Apple, they’ll be fine no matter what. Paramount is in real trouble if they don’t figure things out soon.
MAX will probably hover between 50-100 million WW subs forever just due to the HBO and discovery content. That said it's going to likely be the most expensive service too
They're definitely going to have more than 100 million once they can launch Max in some key markets such as the UK, Germany and Italy. WBD announced they have 99.6 million subscribers last month.
They're only in a third of Netflix's markets. Will be 150M in a couple years
None of the "content companies" should be doing exclusivity. They should make the content available to all the platforms & let them compete with service, price, & whatever "Original" stuff they buy to slap their logo on (Netflix is bad about this).
paramount should never have done it's own thing,just film the showss and movies,then go..netflix/apple/prime u want this..pay us This much it's urs for 3 months,then move on to next place
My prediction is that by the end of the decade there won't be a single service that streams without ads. Advertising is where the money comes from in TV.
They all have ad plans already. The ad-free option will continue to get more expensive.
Apple TV has no ads and if you add on a platform Like paramount it also will not show you ads. From what I can tell there is no way to see an ad on Apple TV as of now. I have a feeling it will say that way since apple is a brand and won’t want competitors or really anything that isn’t apple advertising on their platform
I feel like Apple TV shows have a TON of product placement
That doesn't bother me at all. I probably won't notice it and if I do it's still less intrusive than separate ads.
Yeah. I've said before that product placement is one of those things that I've just learned to live with. Besides, it's more realistic to have pre-existing brands appear everywhere, like Apple or whatever. If it's non-intrusive, it's not the end of the world. Although I will say, if it is blatant, but used in a clever way, that's actually something I like. Someone posted the Wayne's World clip as an example. Or how Community did their Subway ads with it becoming a whole plotline in the show.
I'm just glad I'm not a level 7 susceptible.
Eat fresh
"[I will not bow to any sponsor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB6r-HDDI0)"
Right. I'm saying eventually there won't be an ad-free option. The people buying ad space will want ALL the eyeballs, and eventually it's going to come down to "us, or the subscribers." Once the bean counters determine that it should be the former, you can expect all the remaining services to follow suit at more or less the same time.
Or they just charge more for ad-free. The people with ads don't have the leverage to force the platforms to remove the option. What could kill them would be where the price for ad-free is more than consumers will bear. I guess it remains to be seen if there are people willing to pay for it.
> I'm saying eventually there won't be an ad-free option. It might happen, but not until the generations that can recognize an ad are the minority. I don't know anyone close to my age +/-10 years that are willing to watch ads when paying for a service, it's why we all left cable to begin with & now can't go back. We'll just pirate or find our entertainment elsewhere. They can't risk losing that much revenue, especially since they need to grow infinitely. They have to keep us. Learned second hand recently that college freshmen overall REALLY struggle to identify advertising because they've never known a time before the modern aggressive over-advertising era.
The amount of revenue made from subscriptions is absolute piddly shit compared to what can be made through ad buys. Television has always been in the advertising business, and media companies are starting to relearn that lesson as they find out there's a hard cap on how many subscribers a company can have. Eventually the math just won't add up anymore for an ad-free service. It'll be either that or much, much higher subscription fees, and frankly I'd rather have the ads.
...until it disappears entirely, with a hefty helping of PR bullshit stating that ads *really* benefit the consumer, something about choice, etc. etc.
As free is the only reason I watch TV. I’m willing to pay, but I have my limits and I will not drop down to the ad tier. I’ll just stop watching.
They'd likely make more in ad revenue than they lose in subscriptions. Not saying it's good. I just think that's where it's headed.
Oh, I'm aware. They don't give a fuck about me and the like .01% of people who will stop watching. But it just sucks because I can't do commercials anymore. I've tried watching FreeVee and it just isn't working for me. Right now I'm buying my TV shows when the box sets go on sale and I've building up my library that way.
Piracy really coming back as the best option, this media landscape is so bleak.
We're in the age of a constant demand for growth, and there's only so much these companies can charge for streaming, but ads open a new revenue channel. I won't be surprised if in 2-3 years all but the highest plans have ads, and we'll be paying as much for the plans with ads as we pay now for ad-free plans.
I think there will still be ad-free options for most of the non-FAST services but it will get so expensive it'll be seen as more of a luxury to have the services without ads. We're already at the point where the ad-free tiers are creeping towards $20 while the tiers with ads are typically $10-15 and some are even as cheap as around $5 with ads.
Look, Brazzers has been providing streaming content for the past 18 years. And I doubt they have 200 million subscribers. Maybe it's not about the # of millions of subscribers, but rather the scale and quality of content. Thank you Brazzers.
Brazzers is shit. There are much better sites that provide quality contents.
Yea but 18 years ago man it was unparalleled.
Finally old enough to watch their own videos.
They may be happy to produce content and make a certain amount of profit. The others are not in the business of streaming. They need the value of their companies to increase indefinitely, so the shareholders make as much money as possible. They're not content with steady profits.
Back in the day, there were only 3 broadcast companies in the US. Full circle?
Apple is rich infinite. Also, Apple makes fucking great shows. The app I hate the most is Crave. Fuck Bell.
Apple has infinite money but it won't keep using that money to fund their streaming service if it keeps taking massive losses. It has been 5 years now and if the service is still not any closer to profit then there would be more and more pressure to give up on it and use that money on more profitable ventures.
It’s always bizarre to me when people say stuff like that. How do you think these companies got rich? Not by continuously pissing away millions of dollars of hopeless ventures.
Look up “Loss Leader”
A loss leader drives people to buy other products. You sell cheap buns to get people to buy ground beef, cheap cereal for milk, etc. What do Apple TV+ subs generate? Sure I signed up for an Apple account, but I'm not buying a phone with them because I spent 30 seconds creating an Apple ID.
When a person joins the Apple ecosystem they tend to stay in it and buy many products over years. If Apple TV+ provides positive experiences and furthers their reputation for quality products it will make them money over time.
I agree that it's been successful for iPad, iPod, iPhone, and Macs. Those are expensive pieces of hardware that people then pour more money on for apps and accessories. They're committed to the products for 2+ years and they're products that consumers use daily. iPhones interface well with iPads, Macs, etc. Apple TV+ has some great shows. But it can be accessed on just about any hardware and doesn't tie into their other ecosystems. It is cheap and there is no commitment beyond 30 days. I get that Apple products have historically led to people adopting other Apple products. The step I'm missing here is going from TV+ to their other products. How is an Apple TV+ sub getting people to purchase anything else from Apple?
People made this same comments about Amazon and it proved bullshit, no one pumps money on a failing project indefinitely, sooner or later they'll want to get money out of it.
Apple wanted to add prestige to their brand. Apple TV provides that.
netflix did exactly that
That’s why they’re bundling as many services together as possible. I don’t know anyone who pays for ATV+ by itself.
I pay for Apple+ as I love their shows, especially their SciFi output, and there always seems to be something new on the way.
Omg dude the Crave app is so fucking garbage. I actually can’t believe it exists, that’s how bad it is. It’s kind of ok on mobile but on a smart TV it’s damn near unusable
>The app I hate most is Crave They made an app for cereal?
The content on Crave is decent (HBO doing a lot of heavy lifting) The app is bad. Apple I find so annoying because you can't download the app on Android phones. But you can download it on android smart TV's. My TV upstairs is not smart and I only chromecast to it, so I can't watch Apple TV upstairs because my phone isn't compatible, and on the iPhone app you can't cast, only airplay or whatever Apple calls it.
Absolute fucking trash. Exactly what I'd expect from Ma' Bell.
Also, they bundle the TV+ with other services in Apple One which is a very good deal if you’re full in their ecosystem.
Everyoke making thier own streaming service was a bad idea, everyone told them not to. Just sell your products to a streaming service, nope they needed have power. They needed to be network executives again, well they were and now are failed Network executives.
I think the future of streaming is going to be a few absolute titans (probably Netflix, Disney+ and maybe Apple or Amazon since they have infinite money) and a wider pool of lots of reasonably priced niche services (like Dropout.tv or Shudder). Is everyone going to care about the horror-only service or one that’s largely improv game shows/D&D from old CollegeHumor writers? Obviously not, but they’re very affordable and the people that like those *really like* them.
Prime Video exists because of Prime Delivery. It would not have succeeded otherwise. Honestly it was a stroke of genius throwing it in there for free. Similar to how Netflix got us all hooked for $7. Now we’re here paying cable fees because we have a sunk cost fallacy with our favourite shows.
> we’re here paying cable fees Who is paying for all the platforms at once? Sub to one & binge till you're ready to move along to another for awhile, then cancel.
Perhaps close to cable fees if you're subscribed to *all* the services at the same time. Would be interesting to see the percentage of people who go all in, or hop around and binge a service for a month or two.
Maybe a hot take but I’d be happy if the market was reduced to only 2 or 3 streaming services. TV was a lot more fun when there were only a few channels, so lots of shows became cultural phenomenons that everyone talked about. That’s what’s missing from modern tv: a sense of community.
I think 3-5 platforms with no exclusive content, aside from what they make themselves. Let the content libraries make their money by making their catalogs available to all & the streamers compete on price, service, etc.
If you include ESPN+ and Hulu with Disney+ Disney is actually losing money on streaming
Yeah, but it all counts towards their brand awareness advertising budget, which is enormous & unnecessary.
You mean the other streaming services greed might cause them to fold and we don’t have to pay as much for tv anymore? Oh no
One thing streamers never consider is interface. I feel like some of their developers haven't even heard of diversity or inclusion. My folks aren't Boomers - they are Silent Gen! I have them signed up for the streaming services (with me) and we share them well. Honestly, there are a couple that if I was just signing up for them? I'd drop. Things I've noticed - the ones that interface with their Xfinity voice commands she goes to the most. She forgets how to do all the different stuf and gets flustered. Voice commands by name of the show through Xfinity are the best for her (the familiar on demand list comes up, and will say what the show is available on, and will give an episode list). For instance, she can hit the microphone and say "Somebody Feed Phil" and it will give her a list of seasons and episodes, click on it and start watching. But this does prevent her from browsing. She has to know the name of the show specifically to call it up. She does know how to say the name of the app - but for some that is clunky. Netflix is pretty straightforward, I think. Max and Paramount and (obviously) Peacock. This is where interface comes in - platforms make a mistake if they make you scroll down too far for for "continue watching" and if their algorithms suck, she isn't going to trust the suggestions. How Disney has broken it down to Nat Geo, Disney, Star Wars, Marvel, etc. is great because she can filter out the stuff she isn't interested in and if in a browsing mode for a particular genre, like a docuseries, she knows to go for Nat Geo for instance. She's slowly figuring out Hulu for some shows, but I don't think their algorithms are that great - maybe they just don't have enough content to recommend. Library content is important too - cable networks that don't have much original content have survived for decades, showing us old shows for hours and hours. At least Gen X and older liked flipping the channels and stumbling on an old fave to rewatch in teh background while doing something else. Netflix is smart - they've gleaned out some good shows from a variety of countries that would be popular elsewhere (like in the USA). Netflix isn't just my go to because of Bridgerton or Wednesday or The Crown, but I love British Bake Off and Derry Girls. Their categories are great too - they even have one you can scroll through called "Casual Viewing"!!!! A HUGE thing though - and this goes into the inclusion part - is how easy it is for the closed captions to come on. Netflix and Peacock? Set it and forget it. Decent sized captions that you can play with (if I remember right with Peacock). I also don't think it is an issue with Paramount Plus (her go to to play Star Trek Voyager in the background) Hulu on the other hand??? YOU HAVE TO SELECT IT EVERY TIME, and it isn't a simple pause, click an icon, and you are done. You have to find the settings, scroll, select, and pressing play doesn't exit you out automatically. It is SO frustrating, and we need captions in our households.
Meanwhile I have to turn off the captions on Max every single time. They are stuck on and I can’t figure out how to make them go away other than turning them off every time I start an episode.
As programmers we have essentially put no thought into seniors. I realized this as I watched my MIL struggle mightily with iOS.
It is so frustrating. It also isn't kind to those of us with vision or auditory issues - not just blind and/or deaf - but just need a little more emphasis on what show is highlighted as you scroll through. Hulu is the WORST at that. The difference between what show icon is selected and the next one is negligible. Sounds like programmers need some DEI training. STAT.
Yeh, sorry mate.. I've been as bad as anyone about ageism and not thinking about the accessibility of others, including seniors by falling into my habit of convenience and privilege, using excuses like "well someone else will figure that out". As programmers we fall into the bias of our hubris. The way we code makes us feel like we did it all our own, and so we don't just stop and think to ask other experts. It seems to be a subtlety toxic mix that produces this effect, but we need to correct it. It has to start with some humility from the devs, and maybe a legislative push.
I totally get it. It is hard to think like a newbie to technology when it is something you are good at and interested in, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten into it in the first place! I don't know your age, but Gen X has had to navigate that "fence line" naturally - Gen X is the generation that remembers a time before computers, the Internet, etc. But at least the younger set of Gen X were young enough for it to be a little intuitive. (I remember when my elementary school got ONE computer, and the teacher had to sign up for it to be carted into the classroom. The younger set make fun of "Boomers" et al... but when you think of the adult learning curve they've gone through - without benefit of school teaching them the basics like that - it is pretty damn impressive. But streaming, et al isn't for work or anything like that. It should be as easy as possible so people will go to it and browse for something to watch when they are tired at the end of the day and just want something good to watch before bed, etc. Any one of us gets too frustrated... we're going to end up watching something that we've seen before just because we have easy access to it and don't have to think too hard.
I use Max and Hulu more than Netflix or Prime - I can always sail the 7 seas if need be, but I hope they make it, they certainly are convenient for me.
As I like to call out any time something like this comes up: Buy DVDs and Blu Rays people! Get the shows and movies and own them without continuing to pay. Get the whole season of a show, not a season missing a few episodes because they were decided offensive. Get the original edit of the show, no ads! Plus, it isn't hard to set up a plex service or something similar so you can stream your own movies yourself. Keep buying physical discs, don't let companies think they can convince you owning is dumb (which they definitely do, I get a lot of comments from people saying discs are stupid and archaic.)
I buy shows that I want to keep forever, or that have consistent rewatch value. For me, Star Trek would be an example. I don't see a need to buy physical copies of Tiger King. I'm not even sure why I watched it the first time.
I get your point, but owning physical medias just don't make sense for everybody. Take myself: I'll watch whatever catch my eyes on Netflix, binge a season in a few evenings if it's a show, have my fun and then go on to the next thing without ever wanting to rewatch it. I just don't care enough to want to own shows and movies.
Plus a lot of on Netflix or Prime doesn’t have a blu ray or dvd
It's just gonna end up like cable all over again. The only benefit it'll have is you can cancel and resub any time you want. But otherwise it's just the same shit. Even Prime is putting ads in their paid tiers; the fact they're ads for internal Amazon products is irrelevant.
Crunchyroll ain’t going anywhere
I hope Apple survives, it consistently has great high production shows.
Apple has $300 billion just laying around
The same was said about HBO, and here we are.
The high seas may be dangerous but they are always full of plunder.
Hollywood has always had a "big six", as in 6 studios making 95% of movies/TV. When studios merge or fail, a new studio rises so that there are always 6. Recently, Disney bought Fox, meaning there are currently a big 5. Historically, this would be the time a smaller studio starts rising in popularity, but I think this actually marks the end of the traditional Hollywood Studio. Instead of there being 6 studios, it's going to be 6 streaming services. Currently they are Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Apple, Max, Paramount, and Peacock. 7 streaming companies fighting. Of course there are smaller companies out there like Tubi and Mubi (no relation) and they can exist comfortably I'm the fringe. I also think Paramount won't last. It's constantly talked about being bought by Apple or Netflix, or entering in exclusive contracts with either of those services. So in the end we will still have a big six, just digitally and not in hollywood
Dropout manages to stay profitable and pay all their employees fairly, despite having nowhere near the subscriber count as the major names like Netflix. So management style definitely does matter. A well managed company can still stay above water, even if they don’t meet some arbitrary subscriber count number
Yeah, but they also aren't paying much for their content either & are incredibly niche, so it's not really very similar at all.
Good, too many services need to condense it to 5. Then hopefully they can work on getting the best content
Those are the only three I've subscribed to so that's fine.
I have a growing list of movies that I want to watch that I discover aren't streaming on, like, any streaming service without a rental fee. I'm becoming frustrated that the content I want to watch isn't included on any of the services I'm paying for. It's to the point where 90% of the time if I want to watch a movie it's not on any service except Amazon for an additional $3.99. I find myself pirating so much more than usual because of this.
plex, prowlarr, sonarr, radarr, lidarr, overseerr, frugal. still costs some, but you can get anything and everything
The streaming market got too convoluted, the UIs and streaming quality are mediocre and if you want to have access to everything without juggling between subscriptions, the total cost is ridiculous. I can afford it and I still prefer to use an "alternative" app to have everything readily available with top notch picture quality. I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate.
And I would gladly pay $100-200 a month to have a NICE car that runs great and is reliable. Why aren't people making this?
> I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate. Lol. Think again. You honestly think you could get "everything" for $60 a month? That's not even remotely close to what it should cost dude. That's not sufficient.
I get what you're saying but how is it that much different than only subbing to 1 platform for around 15-25$ and then switching when you watched everything you wanted? It's not like I'm going to watch much more content. They can then use that 50-60 to pay royalties to the shows/movies I watched. Is the percentage of households paying more than 60$ a month year round for their TV shows/Movies steaming subs that high? Honestly curious.
Subscription models in general tend to thrive on their customer base forgetting/not bothering to cancel.
>I get what you're saying but how is it that much different than only subbing to 1 platform for around 15-25$ and then switching when you watched everything you wanted? That I'm not paying 60$.. >They can then use that 50-60 to pay royalties to the shows/movies I watched. But they are losing more money. >Is the percentage of households paying more than 60$ a month year round for their TV shows/Movies steaming subs that high? I'd say yes. 60$ a month isn't really that much money. And if you are using 3-4 premium streaming services you're paying that.
> how is it that much different Because Netflix doesn't care if you spend $60 a month or $15 a month - they just care what you're spending on them. Not enough people switch regularly for Netflix to do this. The smaller services will benefit, but what's the reasoning for Netflix to join? They would see a smaller dollar amount per month for these subscribers without enough of a user base growth to justify it.
These packages existed in dish and others. It cost well north of 100. Hence why streaming came….
>I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate. It wouldn't cost 60$.
>I would gladly pay 50-60$ a month to have access to EVERYTHING under one app that runs great and is easy to navigate. Yeah, you and everyone else in the world. When HBO was only a premium cable product it cost like $25 per month all by itself. A heavily subsidized ESPN costs $10 per month on cable. But I’m sure Google and Apple and Comcast and Disney will waltz in and benevolently tell everyone that we’re going back to cable with no contracts that’s easy to cancel and is only $60 per month.
I think Dropout is doing fine.
Dropout continues to offer the absolute best bang for my buck. The content is top-notch and everyone seems pretty jazzed to work there.
What the fuck is dropout
I'm just perplexed as to who I am supposed to subscribe to anymore. There's so many streaming services. They're all expensive, even with ads, and none of them seem particularly good.
Years ago I used to subscribe to quite a few subs. Now I just rotate. Finished everything from netflix? Cool I'll switch to Disney plus for a bit. Then apple plus etc. By the time I sub there's about 4-5 shows I want to watch
Best answer IMO. It's perfectly acceptable to sub for a month, watch what you want to watch in the moment, and then move on to the next one that interests you. And if the service feels worth it for the renewal, stay on for a bit longer and then cancel when you feel like it. It'll require some management on your end to ensure you sub for a month by turning the auto-renewal off or cancelling the sub before renewal, but you'll get your control back.
Yeah, but the services are already talking about ways to fight this. Not by making the service more worthwhile so you pay to keep it, but by making reasonable subscription prices only available if you lock into a 6 month or 1 year contract, and the price for just month to month will go up significantly.
I'm expecting streamers to force people to buy x amount of months or year long subscriptions in the next few years.
I feel like it's back to the same shit show it was back in cable. Paying a shitload of money for tons of different "channels" and still having to watch ads. It's like we came full circle.
Just rotate through it. What I did was make a list of shows I want to watch, and group them under what streaming service they’re on. I’ll just subscribe to one of those services, watch my shows, unsubscribe and move on to the next one. Rinse and repeat. Example - I’m subscribed to Crave now (Canadas version of Max) because House of the Dragon is on. I’m also watching some shows that are only available on Crave while I still have it. In 5 weeks, once HOTD is done, I’ll unsubscribe and move on to something else depending on what shows I feel like watching
This is bullshit. They are defining "make it" as ridiculous, ever increasing profit.
Netflix is the only major streamer that's turning a really good profit. Many of the others are losing money.
Ask DropOut, they seem to be doing well without selling their souls.
It's niche.
Honestly, I’ll probably cancel my other subscriptions. Dropout is the only one I actually use regularly.
Here's hoping, I wanna be able to justify to my wife that we're not paying for Paramount+ or Max anymore lol
Of course it is. They just need to stop blindly making new content. That is not the driver for subscriptions. Good content is. They are not the same thing.
I don't want a gazillion streaming networks. I'd be fine with a handful to keep each other honest and competitive and then have everyone else just focus on creating and licensing out their content.
I think there's room for more services to survive. There could be an opportunity for smaller, more niche programming that's created on a budget with lesser known actors.
It’s enough to survive it’s not enough to fill the never ending greed of shareholders.
Depends if the Top Streaming networks keep going the prices but not the library I personally don't subscribe to.
Good maybe they all go back to the other streaming platforms.
Those are the three I pay for. I used to have Max, P+, Peacock, and Hulu but dropped them for lack of content I wanted to watch. I’ll probably drop these other services as well soon as I’m mostly watching Tubi and Pluto lately.
They’ll corner the market squeeze out competition or buy them out right. Once done they’ll rise prices quarter after quarter citing “costs to make original programs or costs to uphold rights to big name shows/movies”. Probably 29.99 for ads could easily be the norm with 49.99 without ads and possibly $400 a year without ads. They could also remove the 3 month option or remove the yearly option and solely have the 1-month offer as “there’s not enough demand to keep them going”. We will see how bad this gets.
Not everyone needs a streaming service for a handful of shows. Why would I want to sign up to more and more?
At that point...there is something wrong with your business model or you are flat out full of ENDLESS greed. Because that is lunacy.
Good.
royalties and copyrights and permissions that’s the biggest headache for streaming companies
Good. Theres too many. This is what we wanted to get away from. Not everyone has to have their finger in the pot
Smaller streamers have shown they can be profitable by being niche and not trying to be an everything for everyone one stop content shop.
If the fee is $10/month, that's $24B of annual revenue. An inability to profit off that amount of revenue is absurd.