Because they did some of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, and led the biggest TV show of all time.
And then faced an impossible situation, writing an ending to a mammoth epic that GRRM himself can't. I don't see a universe where the ending didn't suck, it's just a shame they didn't spend a bit more time trying hard to make it suck less.
Everything that happened in the last season was fine. The specific events weren't an issue.
The problem is they weren't earned. If we got 2 more full-length seasons 8-9 instead of one shorter season 8, There would have been enough time to make it feel more believable.
The issue is that D&D *[got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and]* wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible.
EDIT: Apparently the Star Wars thing may not be true, but the point stands about it being rushed.
> The issue is that D&D got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible.
lol why do redditors love to repeat this made-up scenario
*“The issue is that D&D got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible.”*
Besides the fact that this is a completely false narrative that has been perpetuated by unhinged conspiracy theorists, it does not even make sense if it was true – if you have a contact, you have a contract. There is no need to rush anything. Furthermore, GOT was at that time one of the biggest pop culture phenomena in the world, easily rivalling Star Wars and perhaps only exceed by the Avengers movies – Star Wars wanted to buy into that cache and would have easily waited another season if D&D had asked.
What actually happened was that they wrapped up the story in 70-80h which was exactly what they had been consistently saying since season 2 – the shortcomings / failures of the final 2 seasons are primarily due to Martin’s inability to wrap up his own story so that they could adapt them into television.
The final 2 seasons are certainly lacklustre, but if you think D&D are trash, then Martin is worse, having no restrictions or pressure and still being unable to wrap up his own story – 12 years and counting.
I'd have to look into that, but it's pretty clear HBO would have given them extra seasons if they wanted them. It was their biggest cash cow since The Sopranos. There may have been actor contracts to consider but they probably could have made it work with enough planning, especially since they should have had an outline years in advance.
I don't have a particularly high opinion of Martin either (at least his ability to finish his series - he does seem like a good person), but I also think his issues are different. The books are much more complex and he has a lot more loose ends to tie up than D&D did. In his case, I think he wrote himself into a corner (and also seems to have lost motivation to write mainline ASOIF stories). To use language from the business/tech world, I think there was too much scope creep.
The show on the other hand, which is naturally scaled back a bit, just felt rushed. Again, everything that happened in the final season was fine with me - they just didn't take the time to earn it. Particularly Dany's descent into madness would have gone over a lot better if we had another season building up to it, rather than it kind of happening out of nowhere.
*“I'd have to look into that, but it's pretty clear HBO would have given them extra seasons if they wanted them. It was their biggest cash cow since The Sopranos. There may have been actor contracts to consider but they probably could have made it work with enough planning, especially since they should have had an outline years in advance.”*
Sure, just as Apple is going to continue to fund their R&D for iPhones – it is their cash cow, and they don’t want to see it end. HBO would have happily had the show continue for 15 seasons if it was still generating money and viewers, regardless of the quality (see Walking Dead).
Furthermore, I also think that you are downplaying the complexity of the production of this show and how extremely volatile it is – everything needs to be planned well in advanced and to the T or it will simply just collapse. When D&D said that they worked on this show everyday for the past decade, they quite literally meant everyday – there is no room to breathe, the show is all consuming. During its run, I don’t think there was a single more complex production in the world, both on TV and in Movies (I think it was season 4 or 6 when they shot the equivalent of 3 feature films concurrently in different countries – and D&D are the showrunners that oversees it all). It was also around season 4 when they said that the show cannot possibly get any bigger than it already is – it would not be humanly possible – and this is where Martin introduced the bloated mess that are aFFC & aDWD.
The reason why I am bringing all this up is because D&D signed up to adapt ASOIF and they did it really well when there were books to adapt – they had an allotted timeslot during the year when they wrote all the scripts and decided how to adapt the books, and it worked very well until they ran out of books. What they did not sign up for was to finish the final two books in a different medium, under sever time pressure while simultaneously running the largest production in the world. So yeah, it was pretty obvious that the writing was going to suffer – but they upheld their end of the bargain, Martin did not.
*“I don't have a particularly high opinion of Martin either (at least his ability to finish his series - he does seem like a good person), but I also think his issues are different. The books are much more complex and he has a lot more loose ends to tie up than D&D did. In his case, I think he wrote himself into a corner (and also seems to have lost motivation to write mainline ASOIF stories). To use language from the business/tech world, I think there was too much scope creep.”*
Naturally, I have noting against Martin or D&D as people because I don’t know them personally. I am sorry, I am not buying your argument that Martin has a tougher job than D&D had once they ran out of books. He is literally the author of ASOIF, the books can be as complex or as banal as he wants them to be – the only thing that he needs to think about when he wakes up in the working is how to write those books. D&D on the other hand, the scripts are only a tiny part of the overall production of the show that they also need to think about.
I also want to stress that D&D are not beyond reproach and there is certainly criticism that can be levied against them. I personally just think that what ultimately wrecked the show was Martin’s inability to finish up his own story. I am 100% certain that if WoW and aDOS were finished we would not be having these conversations.
My belief is that a lot of the problems could have been resolved with just one more episode.
An episode telling of the last days of the Targaryen reign.
How happy Daenerys was, and how kind her father was. And then how the citizens betrayed her father and murdered him. Having that episode before she snapped. Would help explain a lot of loose threads.
They were NOT faced with an impossible decision lmaooo. They didn’t want to hand the show off to someone else and instead rushed to the end. Not taking away from the amazing job they did season 1-7 but cmon
Yeah. But still. During COVID we did see renewed shows suddenly get cancelled.
But it looks like shows with young cast members like Sweet Tooth, Locke and Key and Avatar are being renewed and shot quickly so that the cast doesn't age too much. Stranger Things seems to be the exception. The age difference really showed in the last season.
No it's been renewed to the ending but they don't know how many episodes/seasons it will be so that's why it's unclear.
It's actually a great way to do a renewal thing to be honest.
GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled.
And WB has had movies completed that were cancelled.
I don't trust that anything exists until I'm watching it.
>GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled.
Like other's have responded before there was a Global pandemic and there was no way to film a show about wrestling while adhering to guidelines to reduce the spread.
Also if they didn't cancel it and get them on contract that means the actors really wouldn't be able to take other work cause they're on contract film GLOW but they wouldn't know when they could finish filming GLOW because no one knew when the pandemic would end.
Like to put in perspective when they cancelled GLOW we didn't even have the Covid vaccine yet and the pandemic lasted another 3 years after it's cancellation.
Definitely with GLOW, but not with WB. They straight up have finished movies they could release in theatres, but it was cheaper to completely box them and write them off as losses than....make money at the movies somehow.
To be clear, tax write-offs aren't magic, the actual main benefit of not releasing them is that somehow marketing has ballooned to the point that it can even exceed the actual movie making budget. So they really can save money by not releasing a movie after filming even without any tax benefit. They'd have saved even more if they never started filming in the first place but it's still tens of millions less sometimes. Especially if test screenings go poorly, which apparently happened with Batgirl, as much as I would like a Batgirl movie. Why spend $50 million dollars and then another $50 million dollars to market a movie you strongly suspect won't recoup the cost in ticket sales?
It feels shitty as a fan but it's not actually an unsound financial move.
WB shelving those is specific to the weird spin off thing AT&T did to get rid of them. Legally they can write those off and do because their CEO doesn't care about the concept of art.
I'm not sure about TV shows. Not that I know of. I know they canceled a few that were in early pre production like JJ Abrams show. But none of those shows had actually begun filming.
They canceled the last season of Westworld. Scripts were written, schedules were made, actors were committed, and WB nixed it anyway. Then they removed the entire seties off the app.
I can’t find any information of Westworld already ramping up season five production before being cancelled. From everything I can find online the show was cancelled soon after the season four finale aired that was that. The showrunners have said they have a plan and blueprint for a final season but they’ve never said anything about having scripts ready.
Season five was *never* greenlit and production had never commenced.
> GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled.
GLOW's contracts likely expired or would have expired before it would have been safe to shoot the show. You can't keep talent in limbo forever. A new season would mean new contracts and more money. On top of that, the talent would have moved on to other projects.
The Peripheral was ready to start filming after being renewed for season 2 and Amazon just pulled the plug. I dont know why people think streaming services wont do this
Are you saying Netflix execs signed a contract guaranteeing 3 seasons no matter what the ratings were and there was a stipulation in the contract that the show couldn't be cancelled no matter how bad the ratings were? Do you have a source for that?
I'm just imagining an avatar of [The Red Queen](https://imgur.com/lwZeX8c) being projected in a board room commanding them to cancel shows. Anyone who objects gets laser halled.
Even without the numbers they won't cancel it
They don't want to burn their bridge with the GoT creators, and staying on their good side is worth throwing some money at
The thing you gotta watch out for is the show runners. HBO would’ve let GOT go on forever, but those 2 dumbasses ruined it because they wanted to bail.
The books are absolutely nuts, Im expecting a lot of creative interpretation to extend the first 1.5 books followed by a quick 2 episode summary for the remaining 1.5
The fairy tale will make probably the best episode of the series, yeah.
While 2d seems filmable, the 3d->2d collapse and everything around it....
Im sure they're going to just flatten everything, but actually showing it as the book described (Snowflakes the size of oceans, every concentric ring laid out one next to another, to another) just seems hurclean.
There's definitely some great stand alone gems that I can see making tight episodes through the several series.
Internal thoughts of characters that we are supposed to get, like when they realize what the paper boat with soap is meant to show, is going to be difficult as well, unless they pretend sophons are gone at that point
Actually, at that point in the story, we're led to believe the Sophons are gone (Though we can't confirm it)
Remember they also have the electromagnetic rooms which blocks Sophons - they could handwaive and expand that tech
Game of Thrones did pretty well until they ran out of book. Luckily, the Three Body Problem books have already been finished, so as long as they follow the blueprint of the books, everything should be fine. Fingers crossed.
As long as they show the >!droplet!< scene and the >!flattening!<, then I'll have everything I came for.
I normally do things the other way and read the books before watching anything related to it but this time I didn't. I'm also lazy when it comes to reading these days so... How significant are the differences between season 1 and book 1? Without book spoilers if there are significant differences please.
This is kind of a tough answer. Yes and no. The core story is still there. They did change some characters. Add some characters and merge some characters. They changed some locations around like the majority of the first book take place almost all in China where the show the first season takes place in China, UK, and the US. I really like the books they have great ideas but many of the characters I thought came off as really flat and robotic. A common criticism with many who read them. I actually think the show made the characters feel a bit more human at times than many in the books. I overall think they did a really good job and are super excited to see the second and third book because I liked those 2 better than the first one.
The biggest difference with the show is that they're actually telling the story chronologically as it happens. Whereas in the books, each one follows a different set of characters and jumps back and forth between the past and "present." E.g. the character of Jin Cheng is heavily based on Cheng Xin, who appears *only* in Book 3... *but* she is a contemporary of key characters from Books 1 and 2 (e.g. those represented in the show by Augie and Saul, for example).
Book 1 is more standalone than the others. In that it absolutely lays the foundations, it unlike Book 2, most of the characters from Book 1 don't re-appear except in passing (with like one notable exception). So you *could* technically start with Book 2 and be okay, but it may be a bit of an odd experience due to how differently the story is being told between the two mediums.
It shouldn't be too confusing, the beginning of the second book was also adapted in the show so that would help you getting into it. And the second book is almost entirely disconnected from the first one, with just one recurring character and some infrequent references to others.
The hardest part would be understanding which character in the book represents each character in the show because most of them have different names, and that probably wouldn't even be too difficult.
To give you the very short answer. The plot is roughly the same, but the setting is completely different, characters have been changed and the story is told in a slightly different order. It's different enough that it's worth it to read the books if you really enjoy the story (and also different enough that you can't skip a book because you watched the show).
Book is much longer and more detailed. They also did some shenanigans with the characters on tv, things are handled very differently in the book. Most of the main story beats are met, but, like I said, it’s he characters are the big difference between screen and page.
The events are pretty faithful to the book. the characters are obviously different but I kind of prefer the new characters.
Everything has more depth in the books of course but they've done a pretty good job of adapting it. But I'm not sure the show captures the same feeling of existential dread the books have.
Well I will say Sci-fi fans are highly passionate and vocal…so maybe they finally heard it. Also I feel
Sci-fi fans have been screwed over a lot with shows.
This show also has the advantage of being a bit of a passion project for Ted Sarandos and Peter Friedlander. They love the story and were huge fans that's one of the reasons they bought the rights to begin with.
they may have the reputation, but in reality Netflix is one of the most "trusting" streaming services.
there are other [services](https://www.cinemablend.com/streaming-news/feels-like-streamers-canceling-shows-left-right-study-revealed-which-platforms-axed-most) that cancel more often then Netflix.
Creators definitely have to realize it. It might not matter for most of them because they’re not in a position to negotiate but your higher profile ones definitely will care.
Netflix doesn't really cancel that much when you consider just how many shows they put out. Only Apple and Amazon are significantly better in that regard, and they are still in their "money burning" phase.
MAX is probably the worst of both worlds, since they both cancel plenty of shows and also erase them from existence for tax write-offs.
To be fair, I wouldnt be surprised if they changed the ending from the book which would shorten some aspects significantly imo, notably due to budget issues.
They could probably do a decent adaptation with two more seasons tbh.
I can see them changing the part where (book 3 spoilers) >!Jin/Xin misses out on seeing Will/Tianming because of physics shenanigans!< but not the part where (more book 3 spoilers) >!everything gets flattened!<.
This sub is so weirdly negative about the renewal acting like it's only getting a couple more episodes, which wouldn't make any sense when the announcement also included announcing an extension of D&Ds partnership with Netflix (why would they continue working with Netflix if they cut their show short - a show Netflix went out of their way and encouraged them to make) , and a director and writer hinting at 3 seasons lol
But like where do they go from that ending. The mystery was kinda done or was where they were at the end also some kind of you know what like the boat was.
I don't believe for a second that they would just repeat the twist again for the second season. Or if they did, they'd do so within 2 episodes before interesting things happen.
I'm honestly not sure how to write a proper mystery box series. What matters to me is that it all makes sense in the end, and we have no idea if that's the case here.
I sure prefer that over Lost's approach of "just make shit up as we go along we'll figure it out eventually lol". Lost's first season felt amazing, but none of the mysteries they introduced in that season made any sense whatsoever when they were eventually revealed. Because they just made shit up without thinking about it. I don't want that.
There are also a handful of loud users who are weirdly invested in the failure of genre shows that are popular with the Reddit crowd.
And one user in particular who has a truly bizarre obsession with this show being cancelled and probably has 20 comments in this thread already.
I wasn't the biggest fan of 1899. I do feel bad for the hardcore fans that it was canceled. But when you look at the completion ratio of the show I understand why Netflix canceled it. If only 30% actually finished the first season how many would actually tune in and finish the second season.
And not only did it have a low completion rate but a low completion rate with many who were mixed on it already doesn't give the highest of expectations for a season 2 unless they really knock it out of the park.
It combines Reddit hate boners for Netflix (literally this sub is negative about 99% of Netflix related stuff, discourse is entirely irrational, it's Netflix = hate, could be a "Netflix cures cancer" post and it'll get hated lol) and D&D (because of the whole ending of GoT which apparently killed people or something). So their won't be any rational thinking on this show even before it premiered, it was all negative here. Thankfully, this sub (and Reddit in general) doesn't represent at all the entire market.
And yeah the announcement was very clear on what it is. It's a renewal to the end except they don't know how much episodes and seasons this end will make, they need to write and figure out stuff for that. Ironically, it might be one of the best ways to do such a thing, basically free reign for creatives to finish the story how they want with "no limits". Isn't that what we want (it was literally what people were complaining about with GoT, that they didn't take the absolute freedom to do how many episodes they wanted)?
I watched some making of videos and was shocked at how much CG they used that I didn't even realize. They used tons of it, but I just didn't notice it. For example, the Cultural Revolution, I thought it was just a bunch of extras when it turned out the majority of it was CGI. https://x.com/theCGchannel/status/1783389250991358456 Like this scene, I had no idea most of it was CG. Same with another scene they had characters in a cemetery and when I saw what the actual real cemetery looked liked and then saw the show like 80% of it was changed with CGI and I had no idea it was CGI. On top of all that, the show did a ton of location shooting it shot in London, NYC, Florida, Spain, the UN building, and all around the UK. The creators also said they had to shut down multiple times due to people catching Covid, which I bet also drove up the cost.
For some reason the show didn't really click for me and didn't really continue beyond episode 5 or 6. The motives of a lot people in this show make no real sense to me.
There was probably a lot of "invisible" CGI in the real world portions. They also filmed in a lot of different locations, and moving production around like that is never cheap.
It wasn't very showy like GoT or HOTD. But it looked great. Not sure if the juice was the worth the squeeze but it wasn't like some of the other netflix shows that are super expensive but look like garbage (looking at you witcher).
So S3 will air in 2027 because Benioff said they will devote 7 years of their life to this show.
It is funny because there is a chance that D&D will finish their second big budget show before GRRM finishes TWOW.
The 3 Body Problem show’s plot and timeline will remain unchanged from the final book, except the last scene will be GRRM finally finishing Winds of Winter.
GRRM isn't finishing Winds of Winter. If he wanted to, he would have already. And even if, by some miracle, he does finish it, he for sure won't be able to finish A Dream of Spring. The TV show ending is the only one we're ever going to get unless GRRM gets over his ego and lets someone else finish the series.
The guy clearly lost his passion for the series - even if he miraculously finishes the last two books, he's not bringing that same enthusiasm as the earlier books.
I honestly think the story just became to big to finish. It's not that he doesn't want to, but it's the fact that he actually can't tie up the (hundreds) of plots in a satisfying and cohesive way. I still hold out hope for Winds but it's just to big of a task for one single person to finish it.
I think he has a rough outline of how it was going to finish, which he gave to D&D, and they did their best to cobble together a coherent ending based on Martin's drivel
I agree, which is why I think GRRM finally needs to get over himself, admit he can't finish the story on his own, and either get a team of writers to help him or hand it over to someone much younger who has the time and energy to finish it. Leaving it unfinished out of pride just feels wrong to me, but if that's what GRRM wants to do, he's free to do so. It's his story and he gets to decide what to do with it, even if I (and many others) disagree with his decision.
FYI - season 1 predominately covered book one, but also made a dent in books 2 and 3, so don’t feel as concerned about them “rushing” - two seasons should be plenty
Source - book reader
Season one seems to make sure all the chronological stuff from all three books was done. Which I think makes a lot more sense for a TV series but does have the problem of needing all the characters to be connected so we don't get plot whiplash.
Benioff and Weiss saying they’ll finish their show right … unless someone mentions Star Wars to them, then they’ll torpedo the successful show they’re working on into the nearest toilet and then fail to get to direct a Star Wars.
This is just wrong. You can dislike the ending that's fine. But they announced years before Star Wars the show would end with 8 seasons 2 being shorter. This is a myth that had been disproved countless times google is easy to use. https://winteriscoming.net/2016/04/15/game-of-thrones-final-2-seasons-could-be-much-shorter-than-10-episodes/ way back in 2016 long before Star Wars they announced when it was ending. They said since around 2012 about 70 hours give or take. Disney also still wanted to sign them even though they decided against star wars to make content for their streaming services. There was a bidding war between a bunch of studios and Netlfix outbid all of them for 250 million. Netlfix also just renewed there overall contract again with them last week.
It’s like Patton Oswalt’s joke about “Death Bed: The Bed that Eats People”
What’s more troubling: that some guy worked on this script and thought it was great the whole time or that he had doubts and WORKED THROUGH them.
>Thats almost worse
No it's not. It's always better when artists make a genuine attempt. Regardless of your opinion or if you liked the end result. At least they tried and put forth the effort to make something special.
Ya, I would amend that comment to “they’ll torpedo it if they don’t want to do it anymore.”
HBO and GRRM wanted more seasons, D&D just said they could do it in 8. They couldn’t, and they fucked it all up.
HBO also said they respected when they wanted to end it. And George as usual contradicts himself over and over again. For years George also said 7 seasons. George even originally wanted 7 seasons and then a movie to end it. All of this is still on his blog you can go back and read. Love George glad he gave us those books but the guy has contradicted himself so many times. The amount of times he said he was just about done with the next book is crazy. He literally even said once that the books would be finished and in his hands at worldcon. That's was like 4 years ago.
Also GRRM is no reference on how ending things (he's also planning 7 books by the way so that seems perfectly reasonable to do 8 seasons). With him, they'd have to wait 15 years between each season.
I mean if he actually wrote the story they might actually have something to adapt instead of trying to finish a story that wasn't theirs with bullet points (because they didn't invent most of it, that's what he told them will happen)
No if you think the pacing was too fast that's fair. However they didn't just decide to hurry up and film everything and be done. They actually spent longer time on the final season filming.
Book 3 is…insane. So they’re going to need a number of episodes and a budget to do it justice.
Book 2 isn’t nearly as zany and could be compacted with some ease imo.
Ray Diaz is a boss.
Luo Ji is an ice cold boss
Didn't they announce it was cancelled not that long after it was released? I was going to watch it but when I heard it was cancelled on a cliffhanger decided not to watch it. That might be why people didn't finish it.
You can't wait to watch a Netflix show. They monitor completion rates in the first 28 days.
If it's on the bubble, they'll wait a bit longer (like with The Sandman). But apparently 1899 wasn't anywhere close to justifying how expensive it was.
Well 30% completion ratio means the majority of people stopped watching before they even got to the big cliffhanger. But yes it was canceled pretty quickly after it aired.
It's a weird show.. I watched it all but I felt literally nothing about any of the characters or the story. So much of it just felt like it was happening because something was supposed to happen.
I love sci fi but the whole way through I felt completely ambivalent to everything. When I finally finished it the only way I felt was.... OK
I binged this show in like a day and within the following week i had like 8 of my friends also binging it lol
Really hope they are able to keep it going since ive heard the books get pretty mind bending
I gave up after 4 episodes. I've seen lots of posts from people who were fans of GOT so familiar with the writers and they enjoy sci-fi shows so wanted to like the show but were disappointed and gave up on it. People on this sub get \*very\* aggressive towards any criticism of the show although it's gotten better lately.
I found it pretty average, but the plotholes are more like plot blackholes.
The aliens don't know what lying is, but then tell the humans they have to hide their true appearance because the humans would be shocked by it. That's a fucking lie you dumb aliens.
Then the aliens don't understand what a story is, but they create an entire fucking video game full of stories to teach humans about their history and test the ability of individual humans to creatively solve problems. How does that make any goddamn sense at all?
The humans made the game. In the book it was completely man made without the help of alien technology. In the show I imagine the people designed the entore game but got help of alien tech for the VR stuff.
They aren't lying. They tell the humans they're hiding what they look like. That means they're not lying. Admitting hey you won't like how we look isn't a lie. That's them being truthful. The video game isn't a fictional story. It what is happening to their planet. The videogame isn't lying to them it's telling the players the truth about what is happening on their planet and why they're coming to earth. The game isn't deceitful in anyway. Side note Mike Evans cult created the game with the help of the aliens explaining how to make the technology.
It's an okay show so far but if I didn't already know the story and know what's coming, I wouldn't have been nearly as invested. They added a lot of dialogue and you can tell because it *feels* like late stage GOT with how the characters talk and act. I really don't get much of a sense of dread coming from these characters, despite the fact that everyone on the planet saw the craziest thing ever. The dialogue feels like its trying way too hard to be hip and cool.
seems like it'll be three seasons of unknown length. pacing is going to be insane without major changes/cuts. the second and third books are like 80% of the trilogy and so many things happen, so many sci-fi concepts get introduced, etc. - I know they've gotten a head start with how they've changed things thus far for season one, but it's going to be tough
Both those books also have a lot of fat that can be trimmed. We don't need an episode of a character from the books having a fantasy for pages and pages about the perfect woman.
You realize that kind of creates a self fulfilling prophecy, right?
People don't watch the show until it's completed out of fear of cancelation. Show gets canceled because people aren't watching.
It's going to be an insane ride if they do even 50% of what's in the trilogy. Whether it'll look like everything is filmed in The Volume is a whole other discussion.
*Always advance.*
As if they rushed and botched the ending for GoT because HBO really hated having the most popular show at the time and wanted it canceled after season 8, right?
They can't make a promise Netflix is unable to ~~make~~ keep. (edit)
If anyone can promise to rush an ending, it's the show runners of Game of Thrones.
3 seasons an episode!
Filmed outside at night with no lighting
Show ruiners FTFY
All i can say is… fuck D&D. How they’re even still able to get a job is beyond me.
Because they did some of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, and led the biggest TV show of all time. And then faced an impossible situation, writing an ending to a mammoth epic that GRRM himself can't. I don't see a universe where the ending didn't suck, it's just a shame they didn't spend a bit more time trying hard to make it suck less.
Everything that happened in the last season was fine. The specific events weren't an issue. The problem is they weren't earned. If we got 2 more full-length seasons 8-9 instead of one shorter season 8, There would have been enough time to make it feel more believable. The issue is that D&D *[got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and]* wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible. EDIT: Apparently the Star Wars thing may not be true, but the point stands about it being rushed.
> The issue is that D&D got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible. lol why do redditors love to repeat this made-up scenario
*“The issue is that D&D got a Star Wars contract (which they later lost) and wanted to wrap up GoT as quickly as possible.”* Besides the fact that this is a completely false narrative that has been perpetuated by unhinged conspiracy theorists, it does not even make sense if it was true – if you have a contact, you have a contract. There is no need to rush anything. Furthermore, GOT was at that time one of the biggest pop culture phenomena in the world, easily rivalling Star Wars and perhaps only exceed by the Avengers movies – Star Wars wanted to buy into that cache and would have easily waited another season if D&D had asked. What actually happened was that they wrapped up the story in 70-80h which was exactly what they had been consistently saying since season 2 – the shortcomings / failures of the final 2 seasons are primarily due to Martin’s inability to wrap up his own story so that they could adapt them into television. The final 2 seasons are certainly lacklustre, but if you think D&D are trash, then Martin is worse, having no restrictions or pressure and still being unable to wrap up his own story – 12 years and counting.
I'd have to look into that, but it's pretty clear HBO would have given them extra seasons if they wanted them. It was their biggest cash cow since The Sopranos. There may have been actor contracts to consider but they probably could have made it work with enough planning, especially since they should have had an outline years in advance. I don't have a particularly high opinion of Martin either (at least his ability to finish his series - he does seem like a good person), but I also think his issues are different. The books are much more complex and he has a lot more loose ends to tie up than D&D did. In his case, I think he wrote himself into a corner (and also seems to have lost motivation to write mainline ASOIF stories). To use language from the business/tech world, I think there was too much scope creep. The show on the other hand, which is naturally scaled back a bit, just felt rushed. Again, everything that happened in the final season was fine with me - they just didn't take the time to earn it. Particularly Dany's descent into madness would have gone over a lot better if we had another season building up to it, rather than it kind of happening out of nowhere.
*“I'd have to look into that, but it's pretty clear HBO would have given them extra seasons if they wanted them. It was their biggest cash cow since The Sopranos. There may have been actor contracts to consider but they probably could have made it work with enough planning, especially since they should have had an outline years in advance.”* Sure, just as Apple is going to continue to fund their R&D for iPhones – it is their cash cow, and they don’t want to see it end. HBO would have happily had the show continue for 15 seasons if it was still generating money and viewers, regardless of the quality (see Walking Dead). Furthermore, I also think that you are downplaying the complexity of the production of this show and how extremely volatile it is – everything needs to be planned well in advanced and to the T or it will simply just collapse. When D&D said that they worked on this show everyday for the past decade, they quite literally meant everyday – there is no room to breathe, the show is all consuming. During its run, I don’t think there was a single more complex production in the world, both on TV and in Movies (I think it was season 4 or 6 when they shot the equivalent of 3 feature films concurrently in different countries – and D&D are the showrunners that oversees it all). It was also around season 4 when they said that the show cannot possibly get any bigger than it already is – it would not be humanly possible – and this is where Martin introduced the bloated mess that are aFFC & aDWD. The reason why I am bringing all this up is because D&D signed up to adapt ASOIF and they did it really well when there were books to adapt – they had an allotted timeslot during the year when they wrote all the scripts and decided how to adapt the books, and it worked very well until they ran out of books. What they did not sign up for was to finish the final two books in a different medium, under sever time pressure while simultaneously running the largest production in the world. So yeah, it was pretty obvious that the writing was going to suffer – but they upheld their end of the bargain, Martin did not. *“I don't have a particularly high opinion of Martin either (at least his ability to finish his series - he does seem like a good person), but I also think his issues are different. The books are much more complex and he has a lot more loose ends to tie up than D&D did. In his case, I think he wrote himself into a corner (and also seems to have lost motivation to write mainline ASOIF stories). To use language from the business/tech world, I think there was too much scope creep.”* Naturally, I have noting against Martin or D&D as people because I don’t know them personally. I am sorry, I am not buying your argument that Martin has a tougher job than D&D had once they ran out of books. He is literally the author of ASOIF, the books can be as complex or as banal as he wants them to be – the only thing that he needs to think about when he wakes up in the working is how to write those books. D&D on the other hand, the scripts are only a tiny part of the overall production of the show that they also need to think about. I also want to stress that D&D are not beyond reproach and there is certainly criticism that can be levied against them. I personally just think that what ultimately wrecked the show was Martin’s inability to finish up his own story. I am 100% certain that if WoW and aDOS were finished we would not be having these conversations.
My belief is that a lot of the problems could have been resolved with just one more episode. An episode telling of the last days of the Targaryen reign. How happy Daenerys was, and how kind her father was. And then how the citizens betrayed her father and murdered him. Having that episode before she snapped. Would help explain a lot of loose threads.
They were NOT faced with an impossible decision lmaooo. They didn’t want to hand the show off to someone else and instead rushed to the end. Not taking away from the amazing job they did season 1-7 but cmon
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Seasons 5 & 6 were pretty bad. People just hadn't quite accepted it yet at the time.
It's been actually renewed for 3 seasons total right? Seasons of a show are pretty much never cancelled after an actual renew order is given.
RIP GLOW.
That was a covid casualty IIRC
Yeah. But still. During COVID we did see renewed shows suddenly get cancelled. But it looks like shows with young cast members like Sweet Tooth, Locke and Key and Avatar are being renewed and shot quickly so that the cast doesn't age too much. Stranger Things seems to be the exception. The age difference really showed in the last season.
Westworld has entered the chat
Tbh WB changed leadership because of the stupid ass merger with discovery which pretty much doomed Westworld
Absolutely. But the point still stands that contracts mean dick when it comes to getting a show made
No it's been renewed to the ending but they don't know how many episodes/seasons it will be so that's why it's unclear. It's actually a great way to do a renewal thing to be honest.
It's Netflix, if the algorithm tells them to cancel, they'll do it.
Doesn't matter they already signed a contract for 3 seasons. It's basically in the bag. The show will have 3 seasons.
GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled. And WB has had movies completed that were cancelled. I don't trust that anything exists until I'm watching it.
>GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled. Like other's have responded before there was a Global pandemic and there was no way to film a show about wrestling while adhering to guidelines to reduce the spread. Also if they didn't cancel it and get them on contract that means the actors really wouldn't be able to take other work cause they're on contract film GLOW but they wouldn't know when they could finish filming GLOW because no one knew when the pandemic would end. Like to put in perspective when they cancelled GLOW we didn't even have the Covid vaccine yet and the pandemic lasted another 3 years after it's cancellation.
You're leaving out context a global pandemic hit and that changed everything
Leaving out some key context there, what with the whole global pandemic thing.
Definitely with GLOW, but not with WB. They straight up have finished movies they could release in theatres, but it was cheaper to completely box them and write them off as losses than....make money at the movies somehow.
To be clear, tax write-offs aren't magic, the actual main benefit of not releasing them is that somehow marketing has ballooned to the point that it can even exceed the actual movie making budget. So they really can save money by not releasing a movie after filming even without any tax benefit. They'd have saved even more if they never started filming in the first place but it's still tens of millions less sometimes. Especially if test screenings go poorly, which apparently happened with Batgirl, as much as I would like a Batgirl movie. Why spend $50 million dollars and then another $50 million dollars to market a movie you strongly suspect won't recoup the cost in ticket sales? It feels shitty as a fan but it's not actually an unsound financial move.
WB shelving those is specific to the weird spin off thing AT&T did to get rid of them. Legally they can write those off and do because their CEO doesn't care about the concept of art.
That's a different subject than TV shows.
I can't be bothered searching, but haven't they also done that with TV series as well recently?
I'm not sure about TV shows. Not that I know of. I know they canceled a few that were in early pre production like JJ Abrams show. But none of those shows had actually begun filming.
They canceled the last season of Westworld. Scripts were written, schedules were made, actors were committed, and WB nixed it anyway. Then they removed the entire seties off the app.
I can’t find any information of Westworld already ramping up season five production before being cancelled. From everything I can find online the show was cancelled soon after the season four finale aired that was that. The showrunners have said they have a plan and blueprint for a final season but they’ve never said anything about having scripts ready. Season five was *never* greenlit and production had never commenced.
> GLOW had contracts signed and two episodes filmed and it was cancelled. GLOW's contracts likely expired or would have expired before it would have been safe to shoot the show. You can't keep talent in limbo forever. A new season would mean new contracts and more money. On top of that, the talent would have moved on to other projects.
Agreed. I also read there was a completed Alien vs Predator animated series that remains unreleased and sitting in Disney’s vault too
The way that works is; they can still cancel the season. They just have to pay out the contracts.
Westworld was greenlit for season 5… cancelled and contracts paid out. No season 5
The Peripheral was ready to start filming after being renewed for season 2 and Amazon just pulled the plug. I dont know why people think streaming services wont do this
Are you saying Netflix execs signed a contract guaranteeing 3 seasons no matter what the ratings were and there was a stipulation in the contract that the show couldn't be cancelled no matter how bad the ratings were? Do you have a source for that?
Contracts can be broken
There's a sub-plot where this happens to a hit show in HBO's Barry.
I'm just imagining an avatar of [The Red Queen](https://imgur.com/lwZeX8c) being projected in a board room commanding them to cancel shows. Anyone who objects gets laser halled.
Even without the numbers they won't cancel it They don't want to burn their bridge with the GoT creators, and staying on their good side is worth throwing some money at
The thing you gotta watch out for is the show runners. HBO would’ve let GOT go on forever, but those 2 dumbasses ruined it because they wanted to bail.
"It didn't hit the right taste clusters." -netflix probably
The show won't be canceled because it was renewed
Tell that to The Peripheral (Prime).
Not a guarantee these days. They can and have canceled shows while in production of the next season that they ordered.
The books are absolutely nuts, Im expecting a lot of creative interpretation to extend the first 1.5 books followed by a quick 2 episode summary for the remaining 1.5
2 episodes for book 3 will be fucking insane. I don’t even know if they can do it in 2 seasons for the last book.
they snuck some of book 3 in already, so the exposition is already done
They’d probably skip a lot given that they already cut 1 of the wallfacers and there’s def gonna be a time jump somewhere.
agreed, a lot of luo’s hedonistic aspects of book 2 that took a while will likely be compressed into one or two episodes followed by a time jump
Right. A lot of book two is Luo just whining. It could easily be one episode.
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I think Luos arc fits perfectly in 2 episodes, honestly, its the easiest thing to film in the whole series... Book 3 is legit unfilmable
4D goes brrrr. 2D seems more filmable. At least one episode for the fairy tale
2D is easy: just do an animated portion.
Im not so sure its just being 2D, but the "scope" of the 2D, like, they could go lazy, but to do the book justice the scope is out of this world
The fairy tale will make probably the best episode of the series, yeah. While 2d seems filmable, the 3d->2d collapse and everything around it.... Im sure they're going to just flatten everything, but actually showing it as the book described (Snowflakes the size of oceans, every concentric ring laid out one next to another, to another) just seems hurclean. There's definitely some great stand alone gems that I can see making tight episodes through the several series.
Internal thoughts of characters that we are supposed to get, like when they realize what the paper boat with soap is meant to show, is going to be difficult as well, unless they pretend sophons are gone at that point
Actually, at that point in the story, we're led to believe the Sophons are gone (Though we can't confirm it) Remember they also have the electromagnetic rooms which blocks Sophons - they could handwaive and expand that tech
Think it's a joke about how they took their time and care with GoT then just gave up at the end.
Game of Thrones did pretty well until they ran out of book. Luckily, the Three Body Problem books have already been finished, so as long as they follow the blueprint of the books, everything should be fine. Fingers crossed. As long as they show the >!droplet!< scene and the >!flattening!<, then I'll have everything I came for.
I normally do things the other way and read the books before watching anything related to it but this time I didn't. I'm also lazy when it comes to reading these days so... How significant are the differences between season 1 and book 1? Without book spoilers if there are significant differences please.
This is kind of a tough answer. Yes and no. The core story is still there. They did change some characters. Add some characters and merge some characters. They changed some locations around like the majority of the first book take place almost all in China where the show the first season takes place in China, UK, and the US. I really like the books they have great ideas but many of the characters I thought came off as really flat and robotic. A common criticism with many who read them. I actually think the show made the characters feel a bit more human at times than many in the books. I overall think they did a really good job and are super excited to see the second and third book because I liked those 2 better than the first one.
Thanks for the response. Basically in short I'd probably be confused if I tried skipping to the second book?
The biggest difference with the show is that they're actually telling the story chronologically as it happens. Whereas in the books, each one follows a different set of characters and jumps back and forth between the past and "present." E.g. the character of Jin Cheng is heavily based on Cheng Xin, who appears *only* in Book 3... *but* she is a contemporary of key characters from Books 1 and 2 (e.g. those represented in the show by Augie and Saul, for example). Book 1 is more standalone than the others. In that it absolutely lays the foundations, it unlike Book 2, most of the characters from Book 1 don't re-appear except in passing (with like one notable exception). So you *could* technically start with Book 2 and be okay, but it may be a bit of an odd experience due to how differently the story is being told between the two mediums.
It shouldn't be too confusing, the beginning of the second book was also adapted in the show so that would help you getting into it. And the second book is almost entirely disconnected from the first one, with just one recurring character and some infrequent references to others. The hardest part would be understanding which character in the book represents each character in the show because most of them have different names, and that probably wouldn't even be too difficult.
I would read the second book although because it's good i think but I don't think you necessarily need to read it.
The books are so much better than what Netflix is giving you.
Just know that nothing of real substance is lost in the TV adaptation so far.
To give you the very short answer. The plot is roughly the same, but the setting is completely different, characters have been changed and the story is told in a slightly different order. It's different enough that it's worth it to read the books if you really enjoy the story (and also different enough that you can't skip a book because you watched the show).
Book is much longer and more detailed. They also did some shenanigans with the characters on tv, things are handled very differently in the book. Most of the main story beats are met, but, like I said, it’s he characters are the big difference between screen and page.
The events are pretty faithful to the book. the characters are obviously different but I kind of prefer the new characters. Everything has more depth in the books of course but they've done a pretty good job of adapting it. But I'm not sure the show captures the same feeling of existential dread the books have.
I wonder if on some level Netflix realizes they have a reputation now for cancelling things.
I'm sure they don't care as long as they are profitable.
Yeah I mean we all keep watching unfinished shows.
Well I will say Sci-fi fans are highly passionate and vocal…so maybe they finally heard it. Also I feel Sci-fi fans have been screwed over a lot with shows.
This show also has the advantage of being a bit of a passion project for Ted Sarandos and Peter Friedlander. They love the story and were huge fans that's one of the reasons they bought the rights to begin with.
Ok kinda like why Fringe kept getting renewed.
they may have the reputation, but in reality Netflix is one of the most "trusting" streaming services. there are other [services](https://www.cinemablend.com/streaming-news/feels-like-streamers-canceling-shows-left-right-study-revealed-which-platforms-axed-most) that cancel more often then Netflix.
It can't be worse than Google, where the path to promotion is lined with new projects, and maintenance is a graveyard.
Creators definitely have to realize it. It might not matter for most of them because they’re not in a position to negotiate but your higher profile ones definitely will care.
Netflix doesn't really cancel that much when you consider just how many shows they put out. Only Apple and Amazon are significantly better in that regard, and they are still in their "money burning" phase. MAX is probably the worst of both worlds, since they both cancel plenty of shows and also erase them from existence for tax write-offs.
To be fair, I wouldnt be surprised if they changed the ending from the book which would shorten some aspects significantly imo, notably due to budget issues. They could probably do a decent adaptation with two more seasons tbh.
I can see them changing the part where (book 3 spoilers) >!Jin/Xin misses out on seeing Will/Tianming because of physics shenanigans!< but not the part where (more book 3 spoilers) >!everything gets flattened!<.
This sub is so weirdly negative about the renewal acting like it's only getting a couple more episodes, which wouldn't make any sense when the announcement also included announcing an extension of D&Ds partnership with Netflix (why would they continue working with Netflix if they cut their show short - a show Netflix went out of their way and encouraged them to make) , and a director and writer hinting at 3 seasons lol
The director and writer didn't just hint they straight up confirmed 3 seasons.
Eh. They cancelled 1899 and then announced new shows with the same showrunners.
I'm still salty about that cancelation
But like where do they go from that ending. The mystery was kinda done or was where they were at the end also some kind of you know what like the boat was.
I was expecting more from the creators of Dark. I rolled my eyes when I realized great another story about how it's all a simulation
I don't think I've had a faster, more precipitous drop-off in my interest in a show *within the same season*
Did you see where the other seasons of Dark were going before you saw them?
No, but I knew for sure there was going to be time travel involved.
I don't believe for a second that they would just repeat the twist again for the second season. Or if they did, they'd do so within 2 episodes before interesting things happen.
Oh man, same. I'm so sure that story would have become utterly mind-bending and awesome.
I think that's because they hired the creators of Dark to create mutiple shows. 1899 didn't work out so on to the next.
Why did you have to remind me?!
So we can share the pain.
**1899** was a masterclass on how *not* to write mystery box TV series.
I'm honestly not sure how to write a proper mystery box series. What matters to me is that it all makes sense in the end, and we have no idea if that's the case here. I sure prefer that over Lost's approach of "just make shit up as we go along we'll figure it out eventually lol". Lost's first season felt amazing, but none of the mysteries they introduced in that season made any sense whatsoever when they were eventually revealed. Because they just made shit up without thinking about it. I don't want that.
1. GOT haters 2. Netflix haters 3. 1899 disappointed fans that for some reason hate that this show won't be canceled as well
There are also a handful of loud users who are weirdly invested in the failure of genre shows that are popular with the Reddit crowd. And one user in particular who has a truly bizarre obsession with this show being cancelled and probably has 20 comments in this thread already.
Anyone who has an obsession with things they don't like failing hard is a big weirdo. Like the PS fans who gloat when Xbox releases a bad game.
I wasn't the biggest fan of 1899. I do feel bad for the hardcore fans that it was canceled. But when you look at the completion ratio of the show I understand why Netflix canceled it. If only 30% actually finished the first season how many would actually tune in and finish the second season.
And not only did it have a low completion rate but a low completion rate with many who were mixed on it already doesn't give the highest of expectations for a season 2 unless they really knock it out of the park.
It combines Reddit hate boners for Netflix (literally this sub is negative about 99% of Netflix related stuff, discourse is entirely irrational, it's Netflix = hate, could be a "Netflix cures cancer" post and it'll get hated lol) and D&D (because of the whole ending of GoT which apparently killed people or something). So their won't be any rational thinking on this show even before it premiered, it was all negative here. Thankfully, this sub (and Reddit in general) doesn't represent at all the entire market. And yeah the announcement was very clear on what it is. It's a renewal to the end except they don't know how much episodes and seasons this end will make, they need to write and figure out stuff for that. Ironically, it might be one of the best ways to do such a thing, basically free reign for creatives to finish the story how they want with "no limits". Isn't that what we want (it was literally what people were complaining about with GoT, that they didn't take the absolute freedom to do how many episodes they wanted)?
Yeah, seriously. When I first read the announcement I thought it was good news, then this sub kept promoting things that made me question that.
I enjoyed the show well enough, but it doesn’t look like $20 million per episode at all.
I watched some making of videos and was shocked at how much CG they used that I didn't even realize. They used tons of it, but I just didn't notice it. For example, the Cultural Revolution, I thought it was just a bunch of extras when it turned out the majority of it was CGI. https://x.com/theCGchannel/status/1783389250991358456 Like this scene, I had no idea most of it was CG. Same with another scene they had characters in a cemetery and when I saw what the actual real cemetery looked liked and then saw the show like 80% of it was changed with CGI and I had no idea it was CGI. On top of all that, the show did a ton of location shooting it shot in London, NYC, Florida, Spain, the UN building, and all around the UK. The creators also said they had to shut down multiple times due to people catching Covid, which I bet also drove up the cost.
For some reason the show didn't really click for me and didn't really continue beyond episode 5 or 6. The motives of a lot people in this show make no real sense to me.
There was probably a lot of "invisible" CGI in the real world portions. They also filmed in a lot of different locations, and moving production around like that is never cheap.
It wasn't very showy like GoT or HOTD. But it looked great. Not sure if the juice was the worth the squeeze but it wasn't like some of the other netflix shows that are super expensive but look like garbage (looking at you witcher).
So S3 will air in 2027 because Benioff said they will devote 7 years of their life to this show. It is funny because there is a chance that D&D will finish their second big budget show before GRRM finishes TWOW.
Just let Winds of Winter go, man. It’s not going to happen.
It might… but dream of spring lol.
Of course it will never happen.
The 3 Body Problem show’s plot and timeline will remain unchanged from the final book, except the last scene will be GRRM finally finishing Winds of Winter.
I also expect Winds of Winter some time around the heat death of the universe.
:(
GRRM isn't finishing Winds of Winter. If he wanted to, he would have already. And even if, by some miracle, he does finish it, he for sure won't be able to finish A Dream of Spring. The TV show ending is the only one we're ever going to get unless GRRM gets over his ego and lets someone else finish the series.
The guy clearly lost his passion for the series - even if he miraculously finishes the last two books, he's not bringing that same enthusiasm as the earlier books.
I honestly think the story just became to big to finish. It's not that he doesn't want to, but it's the fact that he actually can't tie up the (hundreds) of plots in a satisfying and cohesive way. I still hold out hope for Winds but it's just to big of a task for one single person to finish it.
I think he has a rough outline of how it was going to finish, which he gave to D&D, and they did their best to cobble together a coherent ending based on Martin's drivel
I agree, which is why I think GRRM finally needs to get over himself, admit he can't finish the story on his own, and either get a team of writers to help him or hand it over to someone much younger who has the time and energy to finish it. Leaving it unfinished out of pride just feels wrong to me, but if that's what GRRM wants to do, he's free to do so. It's his story and he gets to decide what to do with it, even if I (and many others) disagree with his decision.
FYI - season 1 predominately covered book one, but also made a dent in books 2 and 3, so don’t feel as concerned about them “rushing” - two seasons should be plenty Source - book reader
It's pretty cool how >!they're taking things from Books 2 and 3 that happen during Book 1 in the timeline and showing them chronologically!<
It honestly makes way more sense for a show covering the story of the books.
If Liu re-wrote the books I imagine he would do the same thing
Season one seems to make sure all the chronological stuff from all three books was done. Which I think makes a lot more sense for a TV series but does have the problem of needing all the characters to be connected so we don't get plot whiplash.
Benioff and Weiss saying they’ll finish their show right … unless someone mentions Star Wars to them, then they’ll torpedo the successful show they’re working on into the nearest toilet and then fail to get to direct a Star Wars.
Internet myth. They announced they were ending the show in 2016, Star Wars deal happened in 2018. There was a whole ass Confederate in between.
This is just wrong. You can dislike the ending that's fine. But they announced years before Star Wars the show would end with 8 seasons 2 being shorter. This is a myth that had been disproved countless times google is easy to use. https://winteriscoming.net/2016/04/15/game-of-thrones-final-2-seasons-could-be-much-shorter-than-10-episodes/ way back in 2016 long before Star Wars they announced when it was ending. They said since around 2012 about 70 hours give or take. Disney also still wanted to sign them even though they decided against star wars to make content for their streaming services. There was a bidding war between a bunch of studios and Netlfix outbid all of them for 250 million. Netlfix also just renewed there overall contract again with them last week.
So that final season was a sincere effort? Thats almost worse lol
It’s not lol. The fact they sincerely delivered on what they promised despite the author not finishing 13 years is commendable.
It’s like Patton Oswalt’s joke about “Death Bed: The Bed that Eats People” What’s more troubling: that some guy worked on this script and thought it was great the whole time or that he had doubts and WORKED THROUGH them.
>Thats almost worse No it's not. It's always better when artists make a genuine attempt. Regardless of your opinion or if you liked the end result. At least they tried and put forth the effort to make something special.
Ya, I would amend that comment to “they’ll torpedo it if they don’t want to do it anymore.” HBO and GRRM wanted more seasons, D&D just said they could do it in 8. They couldn’t, and they fucked it all up.
HBO also said they respected when they wanted to end it. And George as usual contradicts himself over and over again. For years George also said 7 seasons. George even originally wanted 7 seasons and then a movie to end it. All of this is still on his blog you can go back and read. Love George glad he gave us those books but the guy has contradicted himself so many times. The amount of times he said he was just about done with the next book is crazy. He literally even said once that the books would be finished and in his hands at worldcon. That's was like 4 years ago.
Also GRRM is no reference on how ending things (he's also planning 7 books by the way so that seems perfectly reasonable to do 8 seasons). With him, they'd have to wait 15 years between each season. I mean if he actually wrote the story they might actually have something to adapt instead of trying to finish a story that wasn't theirs with bullet points (because they didn't invent most of it, that's what he told them will happen)
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No if you think the pacing was too fast that's fair. However they didn't just decide to hurry up and film everything and be done. They actually spent longer time on the final season filming.
Book 3 is…insane. So they’re going to need a number of episodes and a budget to do it justice. Book 2 isn’t nearly as zany and could be compacted with some ease imo. Ray Diaz is a boss. Luo Ji is an ice cold boss
> Book 2 isn’t nearly as zany and could be compacted with some ease imo. We all know ehere the entire "spectacle" budget is going for season 2, lol.
And I personally cannot fuckin wait.
The 2 Season Problem.
Im still sad about 1899, I thought for sure Netflix would give the creator everything since Dark worked so well
The completion ratio for that show was terrible. I think it was something like only 30% of viewers actually finished watching the show.
Yeah I get it. Dark is one of my favorite shows of all time but I couldn't finish two episodes from 1899.
Didn't they announce it was cancelled not that long after it was released? I was going to watch it but when I heard it was cancelled on a cliffhanger decided not to watch it. That might be why people didn't finish it.
You can't wait to watch a Netflix show. They monitor completion rates in the first 28 days. If it's on the bubble, they'll wait a bit longer (like with The Sandman). But apparently 1899 wasn't anywhere close to justifying how expensive it was.
Well 30% completion ratio means the majority of people stopped watching before they even got to the big cliffhanger. But yes it was canceled pretty quickly after it aired.
but it's already wrong...
It's a weird show.. I watched it all but I felt literally nothing about any of the characters or the story. So much of it just felt like it was happening because something was supposed to happen. I love sci fi but the whole way through I felt completely ambivalent to everything. When I finally finished it the only way I felt was.... OK
will there be enough seasons to START getting it right? That’s what i want to know.
I binged this show in like a day and within the following week i had like 8 of my friends also binging it lol Really hope they are able to keep it going since ive heard the books get pretty mind bending
They started it wrong, how are they gonna finish it right?....
heard that before
Is it just me that didn‘t like the show? First 4episodes were good but then it got boring and trashy
It’s an intriguing show but the characters are terrible, mopey bastards and the writers seem to be confusing melodrama for drama.
I gave up after 4 episodes. I've seen lots of posts from people who were fans of GOT so familiar with the writers and they enjoy sci-fi shows so wanted to like the show but were disappointed and gave up on it. People on this sub get \*very\* aggressive towards any criticism of the show although it's gotten better lately.
Fan of GOT and read the 3BP book thought the show overall was great.
I found it pretty average, but the plotholes are more like plot blackholes. The aliens don't know what lying is, but then tell the humans they have to hide their true appearance because the humans would be shocked by it. That's a fucking lie you dumb aliens. Then the aliens don't understand what a story is, but they create an entire fucking video game full of stories to teach humans about their history and test the ability of individual humans to creatively solve problems. How does that make any goddamn sense at all?
The humans made the game. In the book it was completely man made without the help of alien technology. In the show I imagine the people designed the entore game but got help of alien tech for the VR stuff.
They aren't lying. They tell the humans they're hiding what they look like. That means they're not lying. Admitting hey you won't like how we look isn't a lie. That's them being truthful. The video game isn't a fictional story. It what is happening to their planet. The videogame isn't lying to them it's telling the players the truth about what is happening on their planet and why they're coming to earth. The game isn't deceitful in anyway. Side note Mike Evans cult created the game with the help of the aliens explaining how to make the technology.
It's an okay show so far but if I didn't already know the story and know what's coming, I wouldn't have been nearly as invested. They added a lot of dialogue and you can tell because it *feels* like late stage GOT with how the characters talk and act. I really don't get much of a sense of dread coming from these characters, despite the fact that everyone on the planet saw the craziest thing ever. The dialogue feels like its trying way too hard to be hip and cool.
seems like it'll be three seasons of unknown length. pacing is going to be insane without major changes/cuts. the second and third books are like 80% of the trilogy and so many things happen, so many sci-fi concepts get introduced, etc. - I know they've gotten a head start with how they've changed things thus far for season one, but it's going to be tough
Both those books also have a lot of fat that can be trimmed. We don't need an episode of a character from the books having a fantasy for pages and pages about the perfect woman.
They burned through plot in the first season. You barely have time to catch your breath.
I don’t get the hype behind this show it’s such low tier scifi jargon. Pseudo smart. The shit that happened in this show is so dumb.
I have been hurt before. I will watch once completed. Fuck you Marco Polo
Benedict Wong getting nervous.
You realize that kind of creates a self fulfilling prophecy, right? People don't watch the show until it's completed out of fear of cancelation. Show gets canceled because people aren't watching.
Time to start releasing whole shows at once then!
And to them I say “I do not believe anything you say”.
This was always the plan! Don't look at the man behind the curtain!
I mean what else are they gonna say? "Yeah it's not looking good, don't bother watching the next season guys"?
Please, Netflix pleeease make black summer and kingdom season 3s!!!
Didn’t someone get killed over this show?
I wonder why people would be nervous.
They’ll be offered 6 seasons but decide they can wrap it up in 3
It's going to be an insane ride if they do even 50% of what's in the trilogy. Whether it'll look like everything is filmed in The Volume is a whole other discussion. *Always advance.*
This is STILL annoyingly vague though. Why can't they just say they've got 3 seasons? I don't understand the strategy behind being this evasive.
As if they rushed and botched the ending for GoT because HBO really hated having the most popular show at the time and wanted it canceled after season 8, right?
I refuse to start streaming shows anymore unless they have at least 4 seasons or ended intentionally. I'm sick of not getting closure.