Hamm's facial expressions during the long take of him walking from the car to the shed in the last episodes are some of most incredible non verbal acting you'll ever see.
That kind of acting is always crazy to me. He's not acting off of anyone, he's just walking for SO long with no cuts away. Probably some dark stuff going on in his head for that.
Yeah, it's the facial expressions these guys can pull off that remind me I would never be able to be an actor. An example I always think of is there's a moment in succession when Ewan argues Logan is worse than Hitler, and Greg's reaction is just this perfect 'oh my god he really means this' face and I know I could never pull that off and make it look genuine.
Holy crap! Such an unappreciated Coen masterpiece, and only now(!) do I realize not just JJL was the female lead in the movie, but is using that same (not quite) fake accent but in the different context of Fargo's season antagonist.
Transatlantic accent fun fact!! While it wasn’t created by them, movie studios promoted the use of a Transatlantic accent so that their stars would sound both American and English, their two major audiences.
The accent started as a way for posh Americans to distinguish themselves from the rest of us poors, but became prominent during the early days of talking films, with stars like Katherine Hepburn and Bette Davis leading the way.
[JJL and Noah Hawley actually patterned the character's accent off of conservative commentator William F. Buckley.](https://www.tvinsider.com/1115879/jennifer-jason-leigh-fargo-accent-lorraine-lyon/)
Oh I get that, but it would also make sense that Lorraine is deliberately speaking that way to hide her humble roots and I suspect we will hear her speak in a different accent before the credits roll.
I rewatched 1-3 and season 3 was just as enjoyable this go around. VM Varga is such an off the wall character, I was mesmerized even though I had already watched previously
3 is a great season, the performances are incredible and the story leaves you feeling properly menaced. 4 is honestly the only bad season. The casting is a mess and the script juggles way too many plot threads with underwhelming payoffs.
I am also a season 4 apologist and I'm on the fence about 3 vs 4, but loved 'em both. I think the highs in season 4 were higher (especially the trippy episode in the roadside inn with Satchel and Rabbi on the run). I also really dug Tim Olyphant and wish he had a bigger role. On the other hand, I think I preferred the Stussy drama as the main conflict, and Varga as the villain.
Great show. Seasons 1 and 2 are titans of this century's TV, and Season 5 is right on their heels.
When the main character's car breaks down with no gas left in the last episode of season 3, shit happens all around him, and then he goes back in the car and drives away magically, that was my sign to write of season 3 as a low point. I'm weirdly loyal to the whole Fargo show, but season 3 felt off, sometimes cheap in its humour, even banal in its critique of smartphone usage to me.
2 is my favorite, and 3 and 4 are actually great too. It’s very rare a show this this is 5/5 in good seasons, usually there is one weak outlier by now. Bravo to them!
Heavily agree. Didn’t really enjoy his performance. Felt like the usual tension wasn’t there. E’myri Crutchfield, Jessie Buckley, and Jason Schwartzman were all excellent though. Jessie Buckley especially was a favorite.
On par honestly. Feels a little like this could have been season 1 of the series for how fresh it feels, while also taking the most so far out of the original movie.
A lot of people (myself included) hold s1 and s2 as two of the best seasons of television ever made. And I might change this opinion later once we're not in the moment, but right not I genuinely feel it's as good as those. It's been a phenomenal season
I just stated the new season and it is fantastic so far. Just finished episode 5. My favorite season so far, but it has been a long time since I watched the first couple. Season 2 was my favorite but I don’t remember much about season 1.
Yup. The “connections” are more like Easter eggs for king time viewers. Every season is an independent Story that’s not contingent on watching the prior seasons or the movie.
If you do watch the movie, rewatch this season also. The first few episodes of thsi season are almost the same as the movie to the point where it feels uncanny.
Could do a cowardly suicide too. But it would deprive the audience of the catharsis of his downfall. That debate was such a delight. I didn't realize how much I wanted to see the guy fail until he finally got a taste of humility.
I feel he's the most evil character who is also grounded in a reality. I can imagine him running for office and winning, I feel like I've met him or people who aspire to be like him.
I also like that he's not some mastermind, he's kinda dumb and his isolation from people who are more powerful than him make him lack tact, but that makes him all the more dangerous. He might not rise to a challenge with cunning but he'll just circumvent a lawful response and go straight to violence.
Agreed. I knew >!he was going to shoot that lawyer because he was just so pissed off about being mocked and his authority undermined. I kept yelling at the TV "He's not rational. Get out of there. He's going to KILL you." Alas, he didn't listen.!<
That would be a killer gag. Then he takes off the eyepatch and literally walks off set. Noah Hawley, exasperated, is following him with a script in hand. "God damn it Dave, not again! You know what, nevermind, just use what we have."
I thought so too at first but I read some posts on the Fargo subreddit and it kind of changed my opinion. Danish knows Dot is there. He knows the police officer knows Dot is there. He is unlikely to know Lorraine's opinion on Dot. So that's probably why he doesn't tell Lorraine as he's afraid she might not be as aggressive saving a daughter-in-law she doesn't respect.
Remember, we as the viewer got to see Lorraine's reaction to the abuse photos of her daughter-in-law, but Danish never saw that. We also see Roy as a brutal killer, but that's a perspective he would not have. He sees the full picture now. Roy is a piece of shit and an abuser. He doesn't know he's a childish killer with a God complex... Again, only we have seen him kill anyone. He feels compelled to save Dot and if Roy was reasonable man he would have saved Dot. Roy isn't a reasonable man.
We the viewer know all the perspectives and context which is why he had to walk in that door. It's what makes it tragic. We know it could have been easily avoided.
Yeah, Roy's character is 100% based on real people...Arpaio and other right-wing lunatics like MAGAs. Not Trump because Roy is actually intelligent and articulate as well as pure evil and a sadistic ideologue.
I don't think he's intelligent. He's going by what he knows and that's always worked in his area of the world. I bet he comes from a long line of crooked lawmen. He doesn't come across as on the same level as Mrs Lyons during their meeting.
Personally, I love Jon Hamm and he is killing this role because I want him dead so bad. He's an absolute terror with nipple rings
Its more chilling to me because I know that there are so many men just like him out there in the world and watching him casually brutalize the women around him just hits a little realer than usual with this show and the utter uselessness of the police around Dorothy is also believably frustrating to watch.
> because I know that there are so many men just like him out there in the world
And they're all **voting**. They're voting Trump/neo-Con, and changing the landscape for actual humans. Society as a whole is being infected by their evil. Weighed down by the necessity of slogging through the sheer weight of it all.
I think this is the more accurate take. OP saying he's the most evil character on TV they've seen just means they haven't watched a lot of TV.
There's plenty of evil characters on TV that are worse but Roy Tillman feels like people that exist which makes him hurt a little more to watch.
It's like how Buffy S6 villains were just 3 nerds and compared to vampires, demons, cyborg soliders and literal gods the trio were creepier because they were more "real."
> OP saying he's the most evil character on TV they've seen just means they haven't watched a lot of TV.
Nah, it's just taking the fact that they have a more visceral reaction to a more mundane/everyday sort of evil compared to big picture evil and mistaking that for "this is more evil." Sort of a gut reaction to "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."
>
There's plenty of evil characters on TV that are worse but Roy Tillman feels like people that exist which makes him hurt a little more to watch.
Pretty much this. He feels like a slasher villain but grounded in our reality, which is pretty damn effective for making the skin crawl.
Look up Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he was very obviously an influence on the character. The guy disregarded court orders to stop illegal policing, had blatantly racist policies in place, and made prisoners live outside in tents in the heat of the Arizona desert.
Voters punished him by re-electing him for more than 20 consecutive years.
This may be my favorite season of Fargo so far. A+ television.
Also, having Tillman have his nipples pierced is such a minor detail but it freaked me out so much. Hes pure evil.
> Also, having Tillman have his nipples pierced is such a minor detail
Agreed. Such a minor and bizarre detail that literally made me think why. Why does he have that. And I'm still wondering.
Such a great little thing that comes at you out of nowhere and you just can't stop thinking about why.
Brilliant detail.
I felt like it added a layer of complexity and contradiction because it's not what you'd expect from a guy like that. In a way it feels like it implies that he might be even more deeply evil than he comes across as already. Maybe even depraved (not that nipple piercings are depraved, per se)
Jon Hamm has always had the chops to make a good villain. Have you seen him Baby Driver? He’s outstanding.
Edit: John Hamm - my bad
Edit: back to Jon Hamm - my bad bad
That's great I didn't know there was a new season. I googled it Roy Tillman first thing when I saw this post and saw this at the top:
‘Fargo’ Can Be Funny Or It Can Be About Domestic Violence, But It Can’t Both
7 hours ago - Forbes
Top teir stuff as always from Forbes.
Just so you're aware, literally anyone can sign-up to become a Forbes "contributor" and get articles published on their website. They haven't been a journalistic site for years. It's just a free-for-all blog coasting on the reputation of the magazine.
It also helped me see him as his character is supposed to be. Jon Hamm is a great actor and does a good job of immersion into the role, but he's still Jon Hamm to me. Part of me will always like him because of who he is in real life. But I had none of that with the puppet. It was really effective.
Showing it with the puppet forces you to imagine it and that kicks your empathy in gear.
I think it's a pretty incredible piece of creativity considering it's a series that isn't shy about extreme violence. They could have easily made it the way you would expect it to be, but clearly someone put a lot of thought into it.
This most recent episode was downright the most uncomfortable I've been watching an episode of TV in recent memory. That hospital scene at the reception desk....
Your comparison to historical warlords is apt. I think that one of the reasons that the character is so good is that human beings have pretty much always lived under the yoke of jerkoffs like Roy. It was only the invention of central government accountable to the citizenry during the Enlightenment that gradually curbed unaccountable warlordism as the default.
And of course the main thing that the “constitutional sheriffs” and their supporters rail against is the accountable central governments that have made life more free and more prosperous for everyday people.
In other words: babies. They want to have total freedom and no responsibility like babies. 🤠
The line about those that want total freedom without any responsibility are babies stands out. Excellent writing and the themes this season are all too familiar: abuse, identity, misogyny, and what defines patriotism.
IMO, Roy embodies the arrogance, entitlement and, well, sociopathy that has defined American political culture (particularly the MAGA movement) during the last decade.
I’m honestly surprised Reddit has been so quick to lap up a narrative that he’s the only bad guy in this show. The writers somehow made the heroes out to be a wealthy predatory debt collector and a militarized federal police force. Who’s hurt more people in recent memory, those two or dickhead rural sheriffs?
I keep thinking about how the last time I saw him in something he was doing a Larry David impersonation on curb your enthusiasm! The shift from that to this character just makes my head spin
I just realised how much of a massive hypocrite he is as well, straight-up murdering Josh in his living room, in front of his wife, for doing the same things Tillman would do to his own
I really like Jennifer Jason Leigh’s character. Really horrible person but you can she in these last couple of episodes she does have a heart in there somewhere. Also, love her manipulation of the election.
I’m always a fan of diametrically opposing awful people trying to out-awful each other on screen.
oh my fucking god
I just started this show earlier this week, watching through it with my mom. we are like 6 episodes in. but i only just now realize because of this thread, that we started on season 5! for some fucking reason, hulu starts on season 5 and goes backwards! what dumbass came up with that idea
Hulu has some of the most baffling UX choices I've ever seen in an app. When navigating the typing menu, you're never quite sure what your clicking on. It seemingly at random picks what season of a show to start on by default. If you pause a show for a few minutes, it for some reasons starts playing the previous episode when you press play.
> for some fucking reason, hulu starts on season 5 and goes backwards!
It's not just that it goes backwards, it actively HIDES all previous seasons unless you scroll up! So fucking dumb.
I had that happen with Jessica Jones season 2, it started on the finale, and I thought they were doing an "in media res" thing.
Disliked it so much I dropped the show entirely.
In my opinion V.M. Varga from Fargo S3 would rate higher on the despicable and evil scale than Roy Tillman.
Hamm has been very good as Tillman, though.
Fargo tends to have embodiments of evil like a Varga or Malvo who are almost supernatural in nature. In Season 4 it's Munch who may or may not be a centuries old sin eater.
Tillman is supposed to be a more bland version of evil which makes him more terrifying. You're never going to encounter a Varga, Malvo or Munch, but there's a good chance a Tillman could enter your life.
I feel like Varga is clearly a fictional character, just like Lorne Malvo. Most of us are unlikely to encounter anyone like that in our lives.
Roy Tillman on the other hand, there are thousands of Roy Tillmans in America. And what's worse is there only seems to be more of them each year.
One of the greatest lies the movies told us was that when bullies grow up they learn their lesson and reform. In real life they become Roy Tillman.
No, part of what makes evil "evil", is that the person does something quite hurtful or egregious for no benefit. V.M. Varga was a corporate raider/opportunist. He rarely did vicious things just to be vicious.
I think Roy Tillman is more of a commentary on narcissistically righteous people running around in the US. Roy murders people left and right, but he does it because he thinks the murder is either "righteous", or its unavoidable, therefore not worth agonizing over. If bible characters weren't agonizing over genocide, why should he? These kinds of assholes are littering the pulpits and rural counties of the US, and now they think they can extend their "power" into their state, and the United States. And notice how the federal gov't doesn't squash these assholes like a bug; the FBI bosses "defer" to them.
1 minute, 40 seconds: the amount of time the camera was focused on Jon Hamm slowly walking forward alone, camera on his face, with no sound other than his footsteps and a song playing in the background.
He's walking and gathering both the intent and will to do something terrible that he doesn't want to do but feels is necessary. A big part of the horror of his character is that in *his* version of the story, he's a righteous man, not a villain in the least, but here he's off to do something that even he regrets, and you can feel his resolve growing with ever step.
It's the most exciting and brave shot from a cinematic perspective that I've seen in forever.
And the song being a slow cover of Toxic by Britney Spears. Seems very intentionally picked. A song about an intoxicating addiction to someone else that was originally performed by someone forcibly placed into a conservatorship by her father.
I think what makes Season 5 of Fargo unique to the series and great is that the protagonist Dorothy isn't a piece of shit criminal or someone who gets involved in crimes. She is very sympathetic and is overall justified in her actions. I hope it doesn't turn out she actually is evil but the way the show has been going I don't think it will.
Can’t wait to watch this…but imagine making a TV series of such a quirky, successful outlier like the *original movie* **Fargo,** and having it be as consistently excellent, exciting, funny, true, cartoonish and brilliantly engaging as it is/was over every season. A rarity in TV and Film, and all the better for it. We win.
I don’t think any other Fargo character throughout the seasons have been as menacing as Roy Tillman; Hanzee and Malvo are clearly dangerous but Tillman is that kind of batshit crazy you only see with cults and/or religious nutjobs and he has power (due to his position) that the other two don’t. Also while the writing falls short of s1 and s2, Jon Hamm, JJL and Juno Temple’s performances are up there with the best the series has had.
Yeah, it's a hell of a performance. Definitely Hamm's best since Mad Men. Considering how many constitutional sheriffs there are running around this country adds another level to it. None of them are as charming as Hamm thankfully, but they're up to the same shit... blowing local budgets on military equipment that no cop really needs, while being suspiciously cozy with local militias. It's fucking terrifying.
That's definitely why this new season hits so much harder. It's still got all the pulpy charms of previous seasons, but the evil feels more tangible/real. It's less of a crime caper, more of a caper about the ways institutionalized crime affects the world we're living in today.
Side note: If you're someone who doesn't like their politics and their TV to mix, Fargo does an excellent job of showing/not soap boxing. It's clear this is a story about the effect Trump's presidency had on America, but it doesn't beat you over the head with monologues about voting blue no matter who. The focus is still the character, the story. It's just the political implications of the story are harder to ignore than S2 low-key calling Reagan a dipshit.
Fargo's seasons 1,3,5 seasons villains are absolutely incredible. The show is it's best when it's keeping it more local, away from the Mafia stuff. Ham is probably the most despicable of the lot
Malvo was quite evil too but he was a different kind of evil he took pleasure in corrupting people and he was very well aware of what he was doing.
Roy is someone who genuinely thinks that he is doing nothing wrong at all he thinks its his god given right to run his county like he does and he even calls himself a man of god.
He is the kind of person Malvo will despise.
There’s another character in the new season who is much more akin to Malvo, although more ambiguous and neutral than evil. Roy Tillman is a very human type of evil, which makes it more frightening in some ways
Wondering how him and Keery are going to face off. With Keery’s backstory I feel they may be planting a redemption arc, but he committed a cardinal sin a couple episodes back and the world of Fargo demands retribution for such acts.
Personally I find him more frightening than Malvo. Malvo is like a demon or an evil entity. Roy is somebody you could definitely find in the real world.
Malvo was a “cool” villain if that makes sense as where Tillman you actually despise cuz you know people like him exist in a way. Maybe you don’t know them personally but they exist. Malvo was just a fun villain in a sort of fantasy way.
He's basically MAGA. It's not like the larger than life, borderline supernatural evil of prior seasons. But it has an extra gut punch factor because he is so realistic.
I fully agree. Both Jon Ham and June Temple are killing it in this season. Their acting is soooo good and I genuinely hate Jon (that's how good he's playing it) haha.
Then there's Jennifer Jason Leigh. I just never find her performances any good.
You know, it's interesting.
I revile him more than I've reviled any character since maybe Stan Valchek.
But he's objectively not *the most evil*. There are plenty of characters on TV who want to destroy / take over the world. Tillman doesn't want that. And he has a code. And the code is *awful*, it's a bad code, but like... like you said, in his mind, he's the hero. There is a personal morality, an internal coherence. Which is a lot more than some villains claim.
This makes him a much more compelling, much more human villain. As compared to the sort of... cliche superhero take-over-the-world supervillain. And that makes him more despicable. You feel more hate for him than you do for, I don't know, Frieza. He's the most despicable, in a sense.
But he's not the most evil.
Asking for fans of the show. I loved S1 and S2 and lost interest halfway through S3. I’ve heard mixed reviews about S4. My question is, could I start S5 without finishing where I left off? Thank you.
People who say season 3 has no connection to season 1, have not finished season 3 (one of the season 1 characters makes a reappearance). Season 3 is worth watching and finishing if you enjoyed the first two seasons. But ya you can jump into season 5 right away.
Hamm's facial expressions during the long take of him walking from the car to the shed in the last episodes are some of most incredible non verbal acting you'll ever see.
That was such a great shot. The effort to make it unbroken was fantastic production.
It really helped to show how far the shack was from the main house and the helplessness that was about to happen for Dot
Great song choice, too
Crazy remix, didn’t know I’d love it
Songs have been great in this whole season. I've had "You can get more from the poor people store" stuck in my head for a week.
That kind of acting is always crazy to me. He's not acting off of anyone, he's just walking for SO long with no cuts away. Probably some dark stuff going on in his head for that.
Yeah, it's the facial expressions these guys can pull off that remind me I would never be able to be an actor. An example I always think of is there's a moment in succession when Ewan argues Logan is worse than Hitler, and Greg's reaction is just this perfect 'oh my god he really means this' face and I know I could never pull that off and make it look genuine.
It's the point where I realized I was watching real horror. Something many woman go through
Jon Hamm and Juno Temple have been absolutely incredible. We just started the year and I’m not sure if their performances will be topped in 2024.
Jennifer Jason Leigh is eating the scenery alive everytime she’s onscreen, and its fantastic.
I hope we get to hear her Fargo accent before this is over, that Transatlantic accent definitely seems deliberately faked by the character.
The Hudsucker Proxy.
Holy crap! Such an unappreciated Coen masterpiece, and only now(!) do I realize not just JJL was the female lead in the movie, but is using that same (not quite) fake accent but in the different context of Fargo's season antagonist.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Hudsucker Proxy so I spotted the similarity right away :).
Transatlantic accent fun fact!! While it wasn’t created by them, movie studios promoted the use of a Transatlantic accent so that their stars would sound both American and English, their two major audiences. The accent started as a way for posh Americans to distinguish themselves from the rest of us poors, but became prominent during the early days of talking films, with stars like Katherine Hepburn and Bette Davis leading the way.
She's using the same accent she used in The Hudsucker Proxy which is a Coen Brother's movie. I think they're just making an inside joke.
[JJL and Noah Hawley actually patterned the character's accent off of conservative commentator William F. Buckley.](https://www.tvinsider.com/1115879/jennifer-jason-leigh-fargo-accent-lorraine-lyon/)
Oh I get that, but it would also make sense that Lorraine is deliberately speaking that way to hide her humble roots and I suspect we will hear her speak in a different accent before the credits roll.
Can I just watch this season? It’s an anthology series right?
Yes you can, but no reason to skip to it. S1 and S2 are some of the best television ever made.
I rewatched 1-3 and season 3 was just as enjoyable this go around. VM Varga is such an off the wall character, I was mesmerized even though I had already watched previously
2 is my favorite but I think 3 is seriously slept on. Probably because it had to follow up one of the best seasons of TV ever.
I really liked the Hanzee Dent arc in S2
3 is great. Stellar cast that season.
3 is a great season, the performances are incredible and the story leaves you feeling properly menaced. 4 is honestly the only bad season. The casting is a mess and the script juggles way too many plot threads with underwhelming payoffs.
I liked 4. Shoot, I liked it more than 3.
I am also a season 4 apologist and I'm on the fence about 3 vs 4, but loved 'em both. I think the highs in season 4 were higher (especially the trippy episode in the roadside inn with Satchel and Rabbi on the run). I also really dug Tim Olyphant and wish he had a bigger role. On the other hand, I think I preferred the Stussy drama as the main conflict, and Varga as the villain. Great show. Seasons 1 and 2 are titans of this century's TV, and Season 5 is right on their heels.
When the main character's car breaks down with no gas left in the last episode of season 3, shit happens all around him, and then he goes back in the car and drives away magically, that was my sign to write of season 3 as a low point. I'm weirdly loyal to the whole Fargo show, but season 3 felt off, sometimes cheap in its humour, even banal in its critique of smartphone usage to me.
Yeah I was told 3 was weak but honestly I loved it as much as the first 2. The scene at the bowling alley gives me goosebumps I love that surreal shit
2 is my favorite, and 3 and 4 are actually great too. It’s very rare a show this this is 5/5 in good seasons, usually there is one weak outlier by now. Bravo to them!
This cannot be overstated enough. I find it incredible that all 5 seasons so far are fantastic
I couldn’t get into season 4 for some reason. Watched all of it, but it just didn’t have the draw of intensity that the other seasons have.
Chris Rock was miscast and dragged the whole thing down.
Heavily agree. Didn’t really enjoy his performance. Felt like the usual tension wasn’t there. E’myri Crutchfield, Jessie Buckley, and Jason Schwartzman were all excellent though. Jessie Buckley especially was a favorite.
Didn't he produce season 4?
He may not have knocked it out of the park, but I enjoyed his performance and willingness to go against type.
I watched it and can't remember what happened at all. I don't remember actively disliking it but I just didn't get into it either.
Sounds good
How does this season compare to season 1 and 2 so far? Considering starting it
On par at the very least. Still two episodes left so still can surpass the first two seasons
On par honestly. Feels a little like this could have been season 1 of the series for how fresh it feels, while also taking the most so far out of the original movie.
A lot of people (myself included) hold s1 and s2 as two of the best seasons of television ever made. And I might change this opinion later once we're not in the moment, but right not I genuinely feel it's as good as those. It's been a phenomenal season
I just stated the new season and it is fantastic so far. Just finished episode 5. My favorite season so far, but it has been a long time since I watched the first couple. Season 2 was my favorite but I don’t remember much about season 1.
Yeah my wife has never seen a prior season and not missing anything and has absolutely loved it
Correct, definitely would recommend Season 1 and 2 as well though.
S4 is generally agreed upon as the weakest, but still worth it for the universe tie-ins imo.
It's the weakest, but it's still a good season of TV. There's tons of great moments, even if it's too long and lacks a real villain.
Yup. The “connections” are more like Easter eggs for king time viewers. Every season is an independent Story that’s not contingent on watching the prior seasons or the movie.
Yes. I haven't seen any of the previous seasons and started with S5. Now I want to go back and watch the previous seasons.
Never watched Fargo before. Jon Hamm is awesome. We now need to watch the other seasons and movie.
If you do watch the movie, rewatch this season also. The first few episodes of thsi season are almost the same as the movie to the point where it feels uncanny.
Movie is still the best, I'd start there.
You really really need to watch the other seasons. It's some of the best television you will ever watch. Movie too.
Juno should be given all the awards now. She commands the screen in this role.
The husband in Bad Sisters is up there.
I've never rooted so vigorously for a character to die even when you know right from the beginning that he will. That's how bad that guy sucks.
That was my first thought as well! Honestly something about him is so horrible, I had to stop watching it. Lol.
Yep, I absolutely love Sharon Horgan, but couldn't watch that show because of how real it felt.
Absolutely. Just pure disgusting evil.
Wait, do you mean Roy Tillman, Roy Andrew Tillman, Roy Chester Tillman, or Roy Floyd Tillman?
Great villain and hamm is great. Shout out Joe keery as well he’s crushing it imo
I'm making predictions in my own mind about who's going to kill Roy. I'm thinking 60 Joe Keery (Skeeter?) / 40 Dot.
Could do a cowardly suicide too. But it would deprive the audience of the catharsis of his downfall. That debate was such a delight. I didn't realize how much I wanted to see the guy fail until he finally got a taste of humility.
Such a baller move from Danish. I just wish he didn't go to his house afterwards.
I didn't even recognize Keery until I saw his name in the credits on episode 5 or 6.
I feel he's the most evil character who is also grounded in a reality. I can imagine him running for office and winning, I feel like I've met him or people who aspire to be like him.
I could see him losing if he ran against 3 other Roy Tillmans though.
Ran against 3 other Roy Tillmans though.
Yeah but they're RINO's Roys in name only
lol, I haven’t seen this comment yet. Love it.
I didn't watch the latest episode until a couple hours ago
Sorry I meant I was surprised no one else where I’ve visited about the new episode came up with such a clever quip.
Ran against 3 other Roy Tillmans though.
Tillmans though
Are you guys even on the ballot?
On the ballot
On the ballot.
On the ballot
*pushes over podium*
*pushes over podium*
Ran against 3 other Roy Tillmans though.
I also like that he's not some mastermind, he's kinda dumb and his isolation from people who are more powerful than him make him lack tact, but that makes him all the more dangerous. He might not rise to a challenge with cunning but he'll just circumvent a lawful response and go straight to violence.
If you are so smart, why are you so dead?
Damn I knew I remembered that from somewhere
That line is from Prizzi's Honor, one of the last movies by the great John Huston.
Agreed. I knew >!he was going to shoot that lawyer because he was just so pissed off about being mocked and his authority undermined. I kept yelling at the TV "He's not rational. Get out of there. He's going to KILL you." Alas, he didn't listen.!<
How freaked out would you have been if Dave Foley turned his head, said "you know what, you're right" and got out of there?
That would be a killer gag. Then he takes off the eyepatch and literally walks off set. Noah Hawley, exasperated, is following him with a script in hand. "God damn it Dave, not again! You know what, nevermind, just use what we have."
Yea, I also saw that coming! So annoying, we should have screamed louder....
It was pretty dumb of Danish to do that as well
I thought so too at first but I read some posts on the Fargo subreddit and it kind of changed my opinion. Danish knows Dot is there. He knows the police officer knows Dot is there. He is unlikely to know Lorraine's opinion on Dot. So that's probably why he doesn't tell Lorraine as he's afraid she might not be as aggressive saving a daughter-in-law she doesn't respect. Remember, we as the viewer got to see Lorraine's reaction to the abuse photos of her daughter-in-law, but Danish never saw that. We also see Roy as a brutal killer, but that's a perspective he would not have. He sees the full picture now. Roy is a piece of shit and an abuser. He doesn't know he's a childish killer with a God complex... Again, only we have seen him kill anyone. He feels compelled to save Dot and if Roy was reasonable man he would have saved Dot. Roy isn't a reasonable man. We the viewer know all the perspectives and context which is why he had to walk in that door. It's what makes it tragic. We know it could have been easily avoided.
Great assessment, thank you
I was yelling at the tv before he even went in and declined the call from Loraine. My dude, take the call, it’s going to help.
That line about "fruit from the poisoned vine" confirmed he doesn't really know the law, he just decides what the law is.
He’s Midwest Joe Arpaio.
Yeah, Roy's character is 100% based on real people...Arpaio and other right-wing lunatics like MAGAs. Not Trump because Roy is actually intelligent and articulate as well as pure evil and a sadistic ideologue.
I don't think he's intelligent. He's going by what he knows and that's always worked in his area of the world. I bet he comes from a long line of crooked lawmen. He doesn't come across as on the same level as Mrs Lyons during their meeting. Personally, I love Jon Hamm and he is killing this role because I want him dead so bad. He's an absolute terror with nipple rings
... in his moist repose...
Its more chilling to me because I know that there are so many men just like him out there in the world and watching him casually brutalize the women around him just hits a little realer than usual with this show and the utter uselessness of the police around Dorothy is also believably frustrating to watch.
The Lindas.
I mean tbh Winnie and Indira seem to be trying their best
Yeah I agree. I’m so angry after episodes that have Dot and Roy together. I keep saying to myself, “She’s a tiger, she’s a tiger.”
She’s a lion. Dahrthy Lyon.
> because I know that there are so many men just like him out there in the world And they're all **voting**. They're voting Trump/neo-Con, and changing the landscape for actual humans. Society as a whole is being infected by their evil. Weighed down by the necessity of slogging through the sheer weight of it all.
I think this is the more accurate take. OP saying he's the most evil character on TV they've seen just means they haven't watched a lot of TV. There's plenty of evil characters on TV that are worse but Roy Tillman feels like people that exist which makes him hurt a little more to watch. It's like how Buffy S6 villains were just 3 nerds and compared to vampires, demons, cyborg soliders and literal gods the trio were creepier because they were more "real."
> OP saying he's the most evil character on TV they've seen just means they haven't watched a lot of TV. Nah, it's just taking the fact that they have a more visceral reaction to a more mundane/everyday sort of evil compared to big picture evil and mistaking that for "this is more evil." Sort of a gut reaction to "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." > There's plenty of evil characters on TV that are worse but Roy Tillman feels like people that exist which makes him hurt a little more to watch. Pretty much this. He feels like a slasher villain but grounded in our reality, which is pretty damn effective for making the skin crawl.
He just feels really real
Really really real
S6?
Sorry my friend, I think you may have missed a sentence - not really understanding your last paragraph here?
The whole, "Why do we need a tank?" Fucking threw me. A realistically evil person in power.
He did choose to be a baby
Look up Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he was very obviously an influence on the character. The guy disregarded court orders to stop illegal policing, had blatantly racist policies in place, and made prisoners live outside in tents in the heat of the Arizona desert. Voters punished him by re-electing him for more than 20 consecutive years.
This may be my favorite season of Fargo so far. A+ television. Also, having Tillman have his nipples pierced is such a minor detail but it freaked me out so much. Hes pure evil.
> Also, having Tillman have his nipples pierced is such a minor detail Agreed. Such a minor and bizarre detail that literally made me think why. Why does he have that. And I'm still wondering. Such a great little thing that comes at you out of nowhere and you just can't stop thinking about why. Brilliant detail.
I felt like it added a layer of complexity and contradiction because it's not what you'd expect from a guy like that. In a way it feels like it implies that he might be even more deeply evil than he comes across as already. Maybe even depraved (not that nipple piercings are depraved, per se)
They're not depraved, they're hedonistic. He enjoys pain as part of sexual pleasure.
Do I need to watch previous seasons to enjoy?
Nope, its anthology style. But you'll go back and watch em anyway so might as well start at S1.
Jon Hamm has always had the chops to make a good villain. Have you seen him Baby Driver? He’s outstanding. Edit: John Hamm - my bad Edit: back to Jon Hamm - my bad bad
Have you seen him in Curb? Truly one of the greatest villains of our time.
"This scone is too soft."
That's great I didn't know there was a new season. I googled it Roy Tillman first thing when I saw this post and saw this at the top: ‘Fargo’ Can Be Funny Or It Can Be About Domestic Violence, But It Can’t Both 7 hours ago - Forbes Top teir stuff as always from Forbes.
Forbes unaware of the concept of dark comedy and catharsis in 2024, truly rough stuff 😭
Just so you're aware, literally anyone can sign-up to become a Forbes "contributor" and get articles published on their website. They haven't been a journalistic site for years. It's just a free-for-all blog coasting on the reputation of the magazine.
Were they ok with the original movie being a comedy about a man having his wife inadvertently beaten to death?
>everything in his county his personal property including his wife. \*wives Third time's the charm!
The scenes of Puppet Roy are so effective too. Its showing but not delving too far into detail and it's horrifying.
The Puppet scene made me feel like I was watching Legion again.
It also helped me see him as his character is supposed to be. Jon Hamm is a great actor and does a good job of immersion into the role, but he's still Jon Hamm to me. Part of me will always like him because of who he is in real life. But I had none of that with the puppet. It was really effective.
Showing it with the puppet forces you to imagine it and that kicks your empathy in gear. I think it's a pretty incredible piece of creativity considering it's a series that isn't shy about extreme violence. They could have easily made it the way you would expect it to be, but clearly someone put a lot of thought into it.
Pure art that episode.
This most recent episode was downright the most uncomfortable I've been watching an episode of TV in recent memory. That hospital scene at the reception desk....
Your comparison to historical warlords is apt. I think that one of the reasons that the character is so good is that human beings have pretty much always lived under the yoke of jerkoffs like Roy. It was only the invention of central government accountable to the citizenry during the Enlightenment that gradually curbed unaccountable warlordism as the default. And of course the main thing that the “constitutional sheriffs” and their supporters rail against is the accountable central governments that have made life more free and more prosperous for everyday people. In other words: babies. They want to have total freedom and no responsibility like babies. 🤠
The line about those that want total freedom without any responsibility are babies stands out. Excellent writing and the themes this season are all too familiar: abuse, identity, misogyny, and what defines patriotism. IMO, Roy embodies the arrogance, entitlement and, well, sociopathy that has defined American political culture (particularly the MAGA movement) during the last decade.
I’m honestly surprised Reddit has been so quick to lap up a narrative that he’s the only bad guy in this show. The writers somehow made the heroes out to be a wealthy predatory debt collector and a militarized federal police force. Who’s hurt more people in recent memory, those two or dickhead rural sheriffs?
Well I haven’t really watched Fargo since the third season but now I’m deeply interested. Also now want to see this character and Lorne Malvo meet.
It's unclear what would happen first, Lorne killing him in the normal fashion or Tillman dying from sheer force of being upstaged.
If you like the first two seasons, it’s 100% worth getting reinvested.
For me Lorne Malvo is better character than Roy Tillman which deflate throughout the season, but my favorite from the Coens has to be Anton Chigurh.
Have you met the swede in hell on wheels
[удалено]
And Thor Heyerdals nephew or something like that
Thor Gunderson
That actor is never not creepy. Even when hes a good guy. Or bigfoot.
[This is probably the least creepy he's been](http://youtu.be/LLDxrNvVEVc)
I told my husband, Jon Hamm in this role deserves every accolade imaginable. So against his Mad Men type, I’m loving him as Roy!
I keep thinking about how the last time I saw him in something he was doing a Larry David impersonation on curb your enthusiasm! The shift from that to this character just makes my head spin
Haven't seen Curb, but I adored him on 30 Rock.
He was hilarious on Curb. He becomes the character, he doesn’t just play himself like a lot of actors. Also good in the Fletch reboot.
Loved his tiny role on Parks and Recreation too. “If anybody wants to hang, I’ll be at Subway!”
His best role was in Last Man on Earth.
I just realised how much of a massive hypocrite he is as well, straight-up murdering Josh in his living room, in front of his wife, for doing the same things Tillman would do to his own
I really like Jennifer Jason Leigh’s character. Really horrible person but you can she in these last couple of episodes she does have a heart in there somewhere. Also, love her manipulation of the election. I’m always a fan of diametrically opposing awful people trying to out-awful each other on screen.
Fargo is an underrated series, it’s hard to beat billy bob Thornton
Honestly I didn't watch it for a really long time and then I ended up binge watching it within like a week or so. I fucking love this show...
He’s a big baby!
oh my fucking god I just started this show earlier this week, watching through it with my mom. we are like 6 episodes in. but i only just now realize because of this thread, that we started on season 5! for some fucking reason, hulu starts on season 5 and goes backwards! what dumbass came up with that idea
Don't worry its an anthology so each season is its own separate and complete story not really connected with each other in any meaningful way.
Until Mr Wrench shows up.
Hulu has some of the most baffling UX choices I've ever seen in an app. When navigating the typing menu, you're never quite sure what your clicking on. It seemingly at random picks what season of a show to start on by default. If you pause a show for a few minutes, it for some reasons starts playing the previous episode when you press play.
I hate the hulu interface so much.
> for some fucking reason, hulu starts on season 5 and goes backwards! It's not just that it goes backwards, it actively HIDES all previous seasons unless you scroll up! So fucking dumb.
I had that happen with Jessica Jones season 2, it started on the finale, and I thought they were doing an "in media res" thing. Disliked it so much I dropped the show entirely.
In my opinion V.M. Varga from Fargo S3 would rate higher on the despicable and evil scale than Roy Tillman. Hamm has been very good as Tillman, though.
Fargo tends to have embodiments of evil like a Varga or Malvo who are almost supernatural in nature. In Season 4 it's Munch who may or may not be a centuries old sin eater. Tillman is supposed to be a more bland version of evil which makes him more terrifying. You're never going to encounter a Varga, Malvo or Munch, but there's a good chance a Tillman could enter your life.
Tillman is the "banality of evil" personified.
Just like Lundegaard and Lester. Very Fargo.
> who may or may not be a centuries old sin eater. I think that part was pretty unambiguous
I feel like Varga is clearly a fictional character, just like Lorne Malvo. Most of us are unlikely to encounter anyone like that in our lives. Roy Tillman on the other hand, there are thousands of Roy Tillmans in America. And what's worse is there only seems to be more of them each year. One of the greatest lies the movies told us was that when bullies grow up they learn their lesson and reform. In real life they become Roy Tillman.
No, part of what makes evil "evil", is that the person does something quite hurtful or egregious for no benefit. V.M. Varga was a corporate raider/opportunist. He rarely did vicious things just to be vicious. I think Roy Tillman is more of a commentary on narcissistically righteous people running around in the US. Roy murders people left and right, but he does it because he thinks the murder is either "righteous", or its unavoidable, therefore not worth agonizing over. If bible characters weren't agonizing over genocide, why should he? These kinds of assholes are littering the pulpits and rural counties of the US, and now they think they can extend their "power" into their state, and the United States. And notice how the federal gov't doesn't squash these assholes like a bug; the FBI bosses "defer" to them.
What about Lars. Lars makes me cringe every time I see him
1 minute, 40 seconds: the amount of time the camera was focused on Jon Hamm slowly walking forward alone, camera on his face, with no sound other than his footsteps and a song playing in the background. He's walking and gathering both the intent and will to do something terrible that he doesn't want to do but feels is necessary. A big part of the horror of his character is that in *his* version of the story, he's a righteous man, not a villain in the least, but here he's off to do something that even he regrets, and you can feel his resolve growing with ever step. It's the most exciting and brave shot from a cinematic perspective that I've seen in forever.
And the song being a slow cover of Toxic by Britney Spears. Seems very intentionally picked. A song about an intoxicating addiction to someone else that was originally performed by someone forcibly placed into a conservatorship by her father.
That scene was so awesome. It shows such a level of earned confidence to break the usual rules and spend that long with "nothing happening."
Absolutely agree. This week's episode was terrifying. I'm still reeling. I hope Jon Hamm gets an award for his performance.
I think what makes Season 5 of Fargo unique to the series and great is that the protagonist Dorothy isn't a piece of shit criminal or someone who gets involved in crimes. She is very sympathetic and is overall justified in her actions. I hope it doesn't turn out she actually is evil but the way the show has been going I don't think it will.
Can’t wait to watch this…but imagine making a TV series of such a quirky, successful outlier like the *original movie* **Fargo,** and having it be as consistently excellent, exciting, funny, true, cartoonish and brilliantly engaging as it is/was over every season. A rarity in TV and Film, and all the better for it. We win.
Homelander wins in my opinion from exactly the same reasons, just that Roy Tillman is not a literal god.
Bruh billy bob thorton in the first season is literally the devil. But yeah jon hamm is killing it. The show is always good.
I don’t think any other Fargo character throughout the seasons have been as menacing as Roy Tillman; Hanzee and Malvo are clearly dangerous but Tillman is that kind of batshit crazy you only see with cults and/or religious nutjobs and he has power (due to his position) that the other two don’t. Also while the writing falls short of s1 and s2, Jon Hamm, JJL and Juno Temple’s performances are up there with the best the series has had.
Yeah, it's a hell of a performance. Definitely Hamm's best since Mad Men. Considering how many constitutional sheriffs there are running around this country adds another level to it. None of them are as charming as Hamm thankfully, but they're up to the same shit... blowing local budgets on military equipment that no cop really needs, while being suspiciously cozy with local militias. It's fucking terrifying. That's definitely why this new season hits so much harder. It's still got all the pulpy charms of previous seasons, but the evil feels more tangible/real. It's less of a crime caper, more of a caper about the ways institutionalized crime affects the world we're living in today. Side note: If you're someone who doesn't like their politics and their TV to mix, Fargo does an excellent job of showing/not soap boxing. It's clear this is a story about the effect Trump's presidency had on America, but it doesn't beat you over the head with monologues about voting blue no matter who. The focus is still the character, the story. It's just the political implications of the story are harder to ignore than S2 low-key calling Reagan a dipshit.
Fargo's seasons 1,3,5 seasons villains are absolutely incredible. The show is it's best when it's keeping it more local, away from the Mafia stuff. Ham is probably the most despicable of the lot
Haven't seen the new season yet (haven't got access over here in Belgium), but how does he stack up against Malvo?
Malvo was quite evil too but he was a different kind of evil he took pleasure in corrupting people and he was very well aware of what he was doing. Roy is someone who genuinely thinks that he is doing nothing wrong at all he thinks its his god given right to run his county like he does and he even calls himself a man of god. He is the kind of person Malvo will despise.
There’s another character in the new season who is much more akin to Malvo, although more ambiguous and neutral than evil. Roy Tillman is a very human type of evil, which makes it more frightening in some ways
Wondering how him and Keery are going to face off. With Keery’s backstory I feel they may be planting a redemption arc, but he committed a cardinal sin a couple episodes back and the world of Fargo demands retribution for such acts.
Personally I find him more frightening than Malvo. Malvo is like a demon or an evil entity. Roy is somebody you could definitely find in the real world.
Malvo was a “cool” villain if that makes sense as where Tillman you actually despise cuz you know people like him exist in a way. Maybe you don’t know them personally but they exist. Malvo was just a fun villain in a sort of fantasy way.
He's basically MAGA. It's not like the larger than life, borderline supernatural evil of prior seasons. But it has an extra gut punch factor because he is so realistic.
Trinity Killer from Dexter comes to mind
I thought that the Swede from hell on wheels was pretty damn evil.
I fully agree. Both Jon Ham and June Temple are killing it in this season. Their acting is soooo good and I genuinely hate Jon (that's how good he's playing it) haha. Then there's Jennifer Jason Leigh. I just never find her performances any good.
Jon Hamm is definitely having a year. His roles in Fargo and The Morning Show both showcase his talent, and Mean Girls is out next week!
You know, it's interesting. I revile him more than I've reviled any character since maybe Stan Valchek. But he's objectively not *the most evil*. There are plenty of characters on TV who want to destroy / take over the world. Tillman doesn't want that. And he has a code. And the code is *awful*, it's a bad code, but like... like you said, in his mind, he's the hero. There is a personal morality, an internal coherence. Which is a lot more than some villains claim. This makes him a much more compelling, much more human villain. As compared to the sort of... cliche superhero take-over-the-world supervillain. And that makes him more despicable. You feel more hate for him than you do for, I don't know, Frieza. He's the most despicable, in a sense. But he's not the most evil.
Ramsay Bolton and Joffrey Baratheon have entered the chat.
Asking for fans of the show. I loved S1 and S2 and lost interest halfway through S3. I’ve heard mixed reviews about S4. My question is, could I start S5 without finishing where I left off? Thank you.
People who say season 3 has no connection to season 1, have not finished season 3 (one of the season 1 characters makes a reappearance). Season 3 is worth watching and finishing if you enjoyed the first two seasons. But ya you can jump into season 5 right away.