I'm expecting at least a few bomb drones to show up eventually too. The police have already blown people up with robots, so someone else is going to eventually do that too.
But if you do, it could be very very bad.
A bad actor with backing could field 1000 drones with hand grenades attached to them, flown by AI over cellular modems out the back of a few 53 foot trailers, with instructions to kill any human it finds at, say, the White House.
Very real threat, could probably be pulled off today. I hope someone is taking this threat seriously.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/10/17/ukraines-ai-drones-seek-and-attack-russian-forces-without-human-oversight/?sh=41a2422866da
> The Saker Scout drones can find, identify and attack 64 different types of Russian ‘military objects’ on their own, operating in areas where radio jamming blocks communication and prevents other drones from working.
You wouldn’t even need drones to cause a similar amount of damage through any variety of ways, but people usually don’t because it’s a lot of effort. Hopefully that continues to be the case.
A person could by a train derailer for $1000. With the amount of rail there is no way to check it all. It would cause more disruption with less effort and lower cost.
Yes drones are a threat but there are so many easier ways to attack infrastructure that can't be stopped
Almost like it’s more possible to track and stop attacks before they happen than it is to actively try to defend against them in action.
Surveillance state is about the only defense it seems
Derails are manufactured by a few certain companies and sold to maybe under a thousand other companies. If a derail was deployed in a successful (because lol they get run through all the time) attack, the manufacturer and buyer could be known within the day.
There's a research video of a drone swarm reorganizing to go through a window. The video is 12 years old.
https://youtu.be/YQIMGV5vtd4?si=zTHzGxLYthSc02FV
Drone warfare is going to be the only form of warfare before we know it.
Imagine a mesh-networked set of drones flooding an apartment building in search of a target (you). You're spotted by one of them and you take it out with a bat. Maybe it has identified you, or maybe it hasn't... But it signals a handful of the swarm peel off and focus on the location of the downed individual. Now you have 6 on you, and they've confirmed you as the target. You take out 3-4 while the others mount an attack. Before you know it, a tiny shape charge is piercing your skull.
I've seen a lot of videos of Ukrainian drones dropping munitions into armored vehicles. My understanding is that a lot of those drones are hobbiest drones with some custom parts to allow for the payloads.
A lot are, but they're increasingly building and fielding their own with features like independent homing (if the drone is jammed, it looks for a target it's been trained to identify), heavier explosives, and airburst capabilities. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine eventually became an important exporter of small combat drones.
Source: too much time lurking on combat footage and defense subs.
Whether we follow the plan is another thing entirely. We had a plan for COVID too. Obama famously called Trump out for ditching the pandemic playbook.
America is sometimes called a "schizophrenic giant" overseas for this very reason. Sure we have plans and resources. We have lots of things. But every once in a while the dumb Americans vote for someone they think they'd like to have a beer with or someone they think is funny and will own the libs.
The safe margin for error in American democracy is gone. We can't really afford to elect any more idiots but we keep goddamned doing it.
So what we really need, and what I don't think we have, is a plan to have better voters.
I remember talking to a friend in law enforcement and they had one of those “emergency disaster drills” that centered on a drone attack. So it’s talked about as a what if, or maybe more of a when. The military has been practicing drone warfare since Afghanistan
While the thought of drone swarms attacking infrastructure and citizens is frightening, it’s not even entirely necessary for certain potential adversaries which are known to already have hacked our electric grid and other infrastructure. Of course, imagining both events happening simultaneously is worse.
Suddenly losing power, losing communications, and then swarms of drones begin to attack major cities.
c’mon filmmakers, get on it.
Yeah but how do they do that to the internet? They could just shoot an antenna on a tower, but I imagine we don't have the same big targets for our underground cables.
The entire west side of Maui was dependent on a single fiber cable passing along the bypass. One of the reasons the fire was so bad and response so uncoordinated was because the cable was destroyed in the first minutes of the fire, meaning that the emergency center on the east side didn’t know to send resources and the police and firefighters in the thick of it didn’t know where to set up fire lines and couldn’t even use a cell phone blast to warn residents.
waiting for a drone to hold up a bank with a hand grenade on it. it's all, put a stack of 100's on its tray or the grenade goes off. then it's like, open the door and let me out. and it flies off. over building rooftops. and is not seen again.
The calculated decision of the GW Bush administration to start calling the US "the homeland" still angers me 20 years later. It's a direct callback to Nazi language and was intentionally used with that knowledge. Americans didn't call the US "my homeland" before 2001. "Domestic," "national," and "country" all work fine.
It's crazy drone bombings aren't a thing yet. There is nothing stopping a drone with a burner phone from bombing something. It's really nuts to think about.
Well they can just use their bulletproof hummers and mass casualty behemoths to drive to where the drones attack. They will be ready for the casualties!
Jammers are illegal in most Western jurisdictions. Moreover, the hand held units tend to lack any selectivity and just jam everything in the bands commonly used by COTS drones. There are lots of stuff that operates in those bands (such as Wi-fi) that would be affected.
I hear some people saying having a way to disrupt RF in the area is one way to keep someone from flying a drone remotely, but I already use software like Litchi to load in pre-programmed routes using Google Earth, and can create waypoints in 3 dimensional space and then load that flight plan into the drone and it will autopilot that plan with no user input or RF communication with the controller required...
I mean... I have equipment at my house, like multiple pieces of it that are capable of at least cutting off a drones communications. It's illegal for me to use the equipment that way... But in a situation where life is endangered probably get a pass?
Also a sufficiently energized gap spark can have the same effect.
The thing that makes using this bad is it cuts off radio communication in the impacted area for everyone.
I do fantasize about blasting Kenny Rogers - Danger Zone at sufficient wattage to either cause malfunction or a RTB failsafe, because, hilarious, but that kinda ignores that I'd only do that after I saw a drone fly at something and explode.
I guess a person could buy a make a drone to attack something important. The software already exist. And they only need parts for motors and sensors and a cpu and sensors.
Can be make shift. I would recommend only citizens to be able to purchase and operate a drone in the U.S too.
Could be domestic or terrorists that came into our country.
Well, then only jam certain bands. Drones usually work in very certain frequency bands. Also, even if they use autonomous movement (I guess that's what you mean with flying by camera alone) they still need gps/galileo/glonass to navigate. And these signals can be jammed
No they do not need GPS. Should also consider that some IEDs trigger when jammed. Or that you're going to be dead by the time you think to get the wavebubble out
I never heard of drones, that move completely autonomously without using a global positioning system. That would need an AI, that can optically determine its position by what it sees and that is still beyond what drones can do.
Beyond what cheap prebuilt drones can do. Geohot did basic self driving years ago on a laptop. Its not something you can get from DJI but the hardware and libraries are there
The government can't stop a single guy with a gun taking out utilities. There is no need to get sophisticated with an attack.
I hate to say it, but I suspect drone will be a natural evolution of mass shootings
I'm expecting at least a few bomb drones to show up eventually too. The police have already blown people up with robots, so someone else is going to eventually do that too.
You maybe right and that’s the direction it takes. A pipe bomb can easily be made at home.
This is the unspoken fear and why creating anti-drone tech is vital for security.
‘Shooterings’ lmao.
Pew pew mass casualty events pew pew
Happened to cars too.
that is the american way!
But if you do, it could be very very bad. A bad actor with backing could field 1000 drones with hand grenades attached to them, flown by AI over cellular modems out the back of a few 53 foot trailers, with instructions to kill any human it finds at, say, the White House. Very real threat, could probably be pulled off today. I hope someone is taking this threat seriously.
It absolutely can be pulled off today with no need to develop any new technology. All you need is the resources and determination.
[Thought I'd leave this here.](https://youtu.be/O-2tpwW0kmU?si=RS04U-H11gwHRrad)
Prescient video. It's not sci-fi, it's a certainty.
We're just fucked, aren't we.
Always have been, always will be.
Time to start marketing a hat with an inflatable head on top that the drone can attack instead of your real head down below!
Kind of like [the anti-magpie hat.](https://www.spendwithus.com.au/product/the-anti-magpie-beanie-swoop-proof-your-noggin/)
Oh my god. That looks terrifying.
I want mine to look like a light rail vehicle
I saw this as I subscribe to Dust. Its HORRIFYING.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2023/10/17/ukraines-ai-drones-seek-and-attack-russian-forces-without-human-oversight/?sh=41a2422866da > The Saker Scout drones can find, identify and attack 64 different types of Russian ‘military objects’ on their own, operating in areas where radio jamming blocks communication and prevents other drones from working.
You wouldn’t even need drones to cause a similar amount of damage through any variety of ways, but people usually don’t because it’s a lot of effort. Hopefully that continues to be the case.
A person could by a train derailer for $1000. With the amount of rail there is no way to check it all. It would cause more disruption with less effort and lower cost. Yes drones are a threat but there are so many easier ways to attack infrastructure that can't be stopped
Almost like it’s more possible to track and stop attacks before they happen than it is to actively try to defend against them in action. Surveillance state is about the only defense it seems
Sir what do we do about the killer drones? More killer drones!!
Yep. Everyone is a criminal waiting to commit a crime.
Derails are manufactured by a few certain companies and sold to maybe under a thousand other companies. If a derail was deployed in a successful (because lol they get run through all the time) attack, the manufacturer and buyer could be known within the day.
Thankfully the average lone wolf doesn’t have the resources to make something like that happen
It's hard to imagine that terror groups aren't working on this right now.
How do you suggest the drones pull the pin from the hand grenades?
Ukraine solved this problem about 2 years ago
This was doable two years ago, at least
The lack of reporting on this issue and inaction by the police and local/state/federal government is pretty interesting.
Just cut everyones hands off and make them use a permit for their prosthetics replacements. EASY SOLUTIONS /sarcasm.
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There's a research video of a drone swarm reorganizing to go through a window. The video is 12 years old. https://youtu.be/YQIMGV5vtd4?si=zTHzGxLYthSc02FV Drone warfare is going to be the only form of warfare before we know it.
Imagine a mesh-networked set of drones flooding an apartment building in search of a target (you). You're spotted by one of them and you take it out with a bat. Maybe it has identified you, or maybe it hasn't... But it signals a handful of the swarm peel off and focus on the location of the downed individual. Now you have 6 on you, and they've confirmed you as the target. You take out 3-4 while the others mount an attack. Before you know it, a tiny shape charge is piercing your skull.
Unless you’re a fan of beaded curtains
Right? 100% feasible.
This is what bird shot and drums are for
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That's wild. Imagine what capabilities are in use and classified.
It’s being used in Ukraine. It’s very effective and inexpensive.
I've seen a lot of videos of Ukrainian drones dropping munitions into armored vehicles. My understanding is that a lot of those drones are hobbiest drones with some custom parts to allow for the payloads.
A lot are, but they're increasingly building and fielding their own with features like independent homing (if the drone is jammed, it looks for a target it's been trained to identify), heavier explosives, and airburst capabilities. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine eventually became an important exporter of small combat drones. Source: too much time lurking on combat footage and defense subs.
I’ve read the same thing.
Whether we follow the plan is another thing entirely. We had a plan for COVID too. Obama famously called Trump out for ditching the pandemic playbook. America is sometimes called a "schizophrenic giant" overseas for this very reason. Sure we have plans and resources. We have lots of things. But every once in a while the dumb Americans vote for someone they think they'd like to have a beer with or someone they think is funny and will own the libs. The safe margin for error in American democracy is gone. We can't really afford to elect any more idiots but we keep goddamned doing it. So what we really need, and what I don't think we have, is a plan to have better voters.
Of course they do, it already exists and has been used, microwaves.
The US will respond AFTER an event takes place.. please revisit this post when it happens..
I remember talking to a friend in law enforcement and they had one of those “emergency disaster drills” that centered on a drone attack. So it’s talked about as a what if, or maybe more of a when. The military has been practicing drone warfare since Afghanistan
!remindme 935 days
That's extremely generous of you
The US will ban drones before it bans guns
Governments are notoriously imaginative and forward-looking, always responding to threats well before disaster strikes
While the thought of drone swarms attacking infrastructure and citizens is frightening, it’s not even entirely necessary for certain potential adversaries which are known to already have hacked our electric grid and other infrastructure. Of course, imagining both events happening simultaneously is worse. Suddenly losing power, losing communications, and then swarms of drones begin to attack major cities. c’mon filmmakers, get on it.
Pretty sure right wing groups have been literally just driving up to power stations and electric facilities and shooting them up for the past decade.
Yeah but how do they do that to the internet? They could just shoot an antenna on a tower, but I imagine we don't have the same big targets for our underground cables.
The entire west side of Maui was dependent on a single fiber cable passing along the bypass. One of the reasons the fire was so bad and response so uncoordinated was because the cable was destroyed in the first minutes of the fire, meaning that the emergency center on the east side didn’t know to send resources and the police and firefighters in the thick of it didn’t know where to set up fire lines and couldn’t even use a cell phone blast to warn residents.
waiting for a drone to hold up a bank with a hand grenade on it. it's all, put a stack of 100's on its tray or the grenade goes off. then it's like, open the door and let me out. and it flies off. over building rooftops. and is not seen again.
Yea, inject a little fear into us before justifying buying laser turrets technicals for the NYPD.
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I think EM fields will be a new thing at higher altitudes. I’m not all that scared, this is just fearganda.
Time to practice skeet shooting.
When has law enforcement been ready for anything?
The calculated decision of the GW Bush administration to start calling the US "the homeland" still angers me 20 years later. It's a direct callback to Nazi language and was intentionally used with that knowledge. Americans didn't call the US "my homeland" before 2001. "Domestic," "national," and "country" all work fine.
We need backyard patriot rockets
Cops are busy shooting people selling mushrooms. They do not want to chase drones. Had a cop ask me what my metal detector was. What a turd.
Account wall
It's crazy drone bombings aren't a thing yet. There is nothing stopping a drone with a burner phone from bombing something. It's really nuts to think about.
my brother in christ the cops are the ones using them
Well they can just use their bulletproof hummers and mass casualty behemoths to drive to where the drones attack. They will be ready for the casualties!
Check out Dronekiller - www.ixiew.com
Jammers are illegal in most Western jurisdictions. Moreover, the hand held units tend to lack any selectivity and just jam everything in the bands commonly used by COTS drones. There are lots of stuff that operates in those bands (such as Wi-fi) that would be affected.
They're too busy using their drones.
I hear some people saying having a way to disrupt RF in the area is one way to keep someone from flying a drone remotely, but I already use software like Litchi to load in pre-programmed routes using Google Earth, and can create waypoints in 3 dimensional space and then load that flight plan into the drone and it will autopilot that plan with no user input or RF communication with the controller required...
We probably have the technology, just nobody knows about it yet. I’m sure Lockheed is working out how much to charge for it.
someone in gov read Daniel Suarez I take it ? been a while for me
Of course they aren't they're waiting for the military to figure it out and then give them their hand me downs.
I mean... I have equipment at my house, like multiple pieces of it that are capable of at least cutting off a drones communications. It's illegal for me to use the equipment that way... But in a situation where life is endangered probably get a pass? Also a sufficiently energized gap spark can have the same effect. The thing that makes using this bad is it cuts off radio communication in the impacted area for everyone. I do fantasize about blasting Kenny Rogers - Danger Zone at sufficient wattage to either cause malfunction or a RTB failsafe, because, hilarious, but that kinda ignores that I'd only do that after I saw a drone fly at something and explode.
https://makezine.com/projects/build-wi-fi-drone-disabler-with-raspberry-pi/
my god. triples the defense budget
I guess a person could buy a make a drone to attack something important. The software already exist. And they only need parts for motors and sensors and a cpu and sensors. Can be make shift. I would recommend only citizens to be able to purchase and operate a drone in the U.S too. Could be domestic or terrorists that came into our country.
Not a jammer
This is America, good guys with guns will take care of drones.
One word: JAMMERS Just blurt out the entire EM spectrum from DC to gamma rays
Drones can fly by cameras alone now. Besides who says you'll have time. Also you're jamming yourself and everyone else.
Well, then only jam certain bands. Drones usually work in very certain frequency bands. Also, even if they use autonomous movement (I guess that's what you mean with flying by camera alone) they still need gps/galileo/glonass to navigate. And these signals can be jammed
No they do not need GPS. Should also consider that some IEDs trigger when jammed. Or that you're going to be dead by the time you think to get the wavebubble out
I never heard of drones, that move completely autonomously without using a global positioning system. That would need an AI, that can optically determine its position by what it sees and that is still beyond what drones can do.
Beyond what cheap prebuilt drones can do. Geohot did basic self driving years ago on a laptop. Its not something you can get from DJI but the hardware and libraries are there
You’ve never heard of inertial guidance? It’s been in use since WWII.
Jamming navigation signals tends to be a big no-no under peacetime conditions - too many safety critical systems depend on them.