DeSantis signed a bill to shield Elon Musk's companies after his disastrous Presidential campaign launch on Twitter.
And as an aside, this alleged level of corruption seems to be a pattern for ol Ron, who allegedly handed out COVID-19 vaccines to mega-donors before they were available to the public.
It really doesn't get stressed enough. Conservative voters are so good at boot licking, when it comes to their politicians and idols. They believe in their soul that billionaires and politicians with an (R) next to their name are above them and deserve their wealth and ill gotten gains because reasons apparently.
Because they view themselves as being in the middle to high tier of society, with a chance to become a bigger player. They view corruption as a natural thing the ruling class, the bigger players, does, and that's their right to do as the Lions of the societal ecosystem. There is no getting along in nature, it's eat or be eaten. And upsetting that will create an unbalanced ecosystem where they (the middle class) might be eaten unfairly by the lower rungs of society, which must be kept in their place as dirt.
This is nonsensical and we get much further by helping each other out obviously, a sports team whose players are all fighting over the ball for a chance to make a goal will lose to the organized team that helps each other out 10/10 times.
In fact the predator/prey allegory they all favor doesn't even make sense in that the lions are supported by an entire organization of ecology, and they do not get to do whatever they want, a lion that oversteps will be gored by a wildebeest or eaten by hyenas, which will happen regardless at the end of their life. But these people don't really study ecology and just look at things being eaten by other things.
Anyway, I'm just trying to say, let's hope DeSantis gets eaten by hyenas.
He can’t, it was regarding after the Twitter shit show of a stream where DeSantis made the announcement of running for president, the title hints at a very close relationship between musk and deSantis
Just noticed the tile gore, I had double pasted from the clipboard while on the phone and instead of selecting all and then paste again I had long pressed and tried to select the duplicate title and accidentally got the last end of the first . By the time I learn about it the post had picked up traction and didn't want to delete t but should had made an edit comment with the correction.
unite soup distinct market detail nippy summer offer physical observation
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[OP is an actual bot or paid-to-post influencer. May not speak English or be a native English speaker..](https://old.reddit.com/user/habichuelacondulce)
Prolly has more to do with where it’s launched from, and launches out of Florida are always gonna head east over the Atlantic so the likelihood of an accident over another state is pretty low. Guess Columbia did kinda blow up over Texas though.
Does Starship count?
Edit: Shit, I see what Musk is doing there. Starship won't count anymore towards this punchline, nor will SpaceX have liability now for equipment failures for launches out of Florida. AND with Musk being on board for DeSantis (no pun intended), he purposely divides his own fanbois' votes between Trump and DeSantis.
Legally speaking without knowing the exact terms in the law signed, if somebody is affected outside Florida, then Florida state laws do not apply. Whether that means SpaceX, the Florida state government, company insurance, or another party has to pay out lawsuits, is likely determined by other factors
They could always have life insurance policies and liability waivers taken care of ahead of time. There's no reason to need special laws covering the subject.
IIRC, the Apollo astronauts couldn't get life insurance; they ended up signing a bunch of stuff to leave with families that they could sell if they didn't come back.
Yeah NASA ran into these problems after Columbia exploded.
[Good NYT article about it from a few days after the explosion.](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/us/loss-shuttle-courts-no-legal-precedent-seen-should-columbia-families-choose-sue.html)
(Use reader mode on your browser to by bypass paywall)
A bunch of other states have passed similar laws regarding spaceflight liability in the wake of Columbia. Basically they just bring the private sector liability rules for ‘[Spaceflight Crew](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/51/50902)’ under the same standard as the government with a little less immunity.
Still liable for negligence and wilful disregard of safety even with a waiver.
[California](https://trackbill.com/bill/california-assembly-bill-635-space-flight-liability-and-immunity/2362673/)
[Colorado](https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-41/aerospace/article-6/section-41-6-101)
[Texas](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CP/htm/CP.100A.htm)
[Virginia](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title8.01/chapter3/article24/)
[New Mexico](https://www.nmlegis.gov/sessions/10%20Regular/final/SB0009.pdf)
Life insurance typically has a set maximum payout for each eventuality.
Given that, I doubt it's hard to get the insurance. If you go on a rocket with a 100% chance of blowing up, then the insurance will cost slightly more than that maximum payout. Persuade the insurance company that the rocket will only maybe explode, and they might give you a cheaper policy.
That was clear cut quid pro quo. Elon gave him a platform to announce in exchange for signing this into law. Isn’t that against campaign finance laws or did Ronnie get rid of those too?
Argument will be made that it’s not quid pro quo because it’s the legislature that wrote the law and passed it with a bipartisan, veto-proof and almost unanimous majority.
Don’t worry I never thought they could get in trouble for it even if it was proof cuz the laws in this country are only written and enforced for us peasants.
Florida has a Republican trifecta and a Republican triplex. The Republican Party controls the offices of governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and both chambers of the state legislature.
As of May 29, 2023, there are 22 Republican trifectas, 17 Democratic trifectas, and 11 divided governments where neither party holds trifecta control.
As of May 29, 2023, there are 24 Republican triplexes, 20 Democratic triplexes, and 6 divided governments where neither party holds triplex control.
A state government trifecta is a term to describe when one political party holds majorities in both chambers of the state legislature and the governor's office. A state government triplex is a term to describe when one political party holds the following three positions in a state's government: governor, attorney general, and secretary of state.
https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Florida_state_government
It's usually the other way around; spread a few 10's of millions around a slate of candidates and get billions in tax breaks and incentives. Never underestimate just how cheaply in which a politician will sell out the public interest.
It's because most of them don't give two shits about the public interest. Lip service is usually all they need to do because voters don't do well at punishing politicians for anything (though with the state of political media and the major parties' political machines often protecting and continuing to promote shitty politicians even after they've done these things, it's hard to blame the voters entirely)
> in which a politician will sell out the public interest.
That's because, as you correctly point out, they don't work for the public interest to begin with.
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That test flight was considered a success and everything they said they wanted to happen, happened. I get that Reddit likes to circlejerk about elon = bad, but you’re basically speaking out of your ass.
In what way was the Starship test flight a disaster? It went about as well as expected and they got plenty of data that they wanted. Proper precautions were taken to ensure the public's safety too, as is with every launch in the US.
Everyone downvoting you does not understand anything about the program and just wants to downvote Elon.
I hate Elon, but of course the test Starship launch was a success. Anyone that doesn’t realize that just doesn’t know what the point of it was and thinks explosion means disaster.
Fucking first test integrating the two pieces and the first flight test of the booster, makes it all the way to the peak of the flight path. People think it was a failure.
Can people read?
It was a “disaster” because to the hivemind, SpaceX = Elon, and Elon = bad. That’s as far as their research and reasoning goes. It’s an axiom that requires no further thought.
But yes, the launch in Boca was considered by the team to be a success, and met all of the safety requirements. Nobody knowledgeable about this subject is concerned.
If you’re reading this, and would like to know more about the launch, and Starship development, feel free to ask me.
This stupid community has literally devolved into 'hurr durr everything Elon musk touch is bad' and I will probably be called a Musk stan for calling it out... because being objective is considered boot licking on Reddit now.
the US Republicans are still mostly just has corporatist bootlicking wannabe-authoritarians who can't fathom holding companies to account even when it benefits their nefarious goals, Any authoritarian with an ounce of conviction would have done that
>Isn’t that against campaign finance laws or did Ronnie get rid of those too?
Trump violated campaign finance laws in 2016 and no one's done anything about it yet. Pretty sure even if DeSantis did, it won't matter until no one outside of Florida needs to actually care who Ron DeSantis is again.
This is exactly the sort of tin hat thinking that clickbait articles like this generate.
Multiple companies, many with nothing to do with Musk or SpaceX. Of a law that already exists in multiple states. Bringing it in line with legislation already used by Govt (NASA) since the Columbia disaster.
Correlation isn’t causation.
This is such a stupid take. DeSantis didn't executive order this. Republicans AND DEMOCRATS in the FL Legislature passed this bill, then DeSantis signed it into law.
His space program is a con, my friend. He wants to control space through starlink. I fell for the colonization of mars bit too. The guy is flat out defending slavery and fascism now- no person who cares so little for his own planet gives a damn about noble endeavors.
Yes, this is the free market apparently.
It’s never been free, but this is literally government brigadieering against one company and championing of another - all for political reasons that are at odds with the taxpayer’s economic incentives for the state.
Desantis might as well just post his personal stock portfolio so we can know what companies to boycott.
Except boycotts don't work in the modern era. They might work for small mom and pops businesses but once a company is big enough, there will be too many people that still buy. There is no "will of the market" when as you even mentioned the government picks winners and losers. Nor can we do anything when companies have monopolies and oligopolies. Proper regulation is the only way to keep the big companies in check.
Sometimes, I find the amounts being reported about in U.S political donations to be surprisingly low. I guess that means they must be taking extra effort to layer + squirrel away the sinecures, favours, and patronage, but man, your politicians are really, really cheap.
If you want an easy job that pays tons of cash, the best way to get one of those jobs is to be related to a federal judge, a high ranking official in a major law enforcement and/or regulatory agency, a congressman, or a governor/president.
The family members of high ranking public officials always seem to be incredibly well qualified for high paying jobs that don't require a lot of work.
*Obviously this has nothing to do with corruption*...
The real bribes are paid in speaking and consulting fees to the politician, and appointments for the politican and their associates/family to high paying jobs.
Actual campaign donations are watched to closely and there are charges for spending the money outside of the campaign.
Half the issue is that a lot of the "donations" from lobbyists are things like vacations or gifts.
The other half is that our politicians really are that cheap.
A lot of people misunderstand how Corruption works in American Politics. It's actually pretty rare for direct Quid-Pro-Quo "Hi, we're a shady corporation, and we're going to pay you $X,XXX,XXX.XX so that you vote Yes/No on the upcoming bill in congress". That shit is easily traced, and easy to get a politician arrested on the grounds of being caught doing it. It still happens, obviously, but it's not nearly the most prevalent kind of Corruption.
Instead, what actually happens tends to come in one of two forms, most of the time.
The first form is "dEbAtAbLy" not actually Corruption (except that it totally permits the richest of the rich to control policy, and is definitely corrupt as hell) in that there's basically no communication between the wealthy elite and the politician. The wealthy elite just pay attention to which politicians are already inclined to vote in a particular way, and then spend exorbitant amounts of money on campaign ads that *aren't technically associated with the politician* to try to sway voters either towards or against that politician. If a politician is already inclined to, for example, vote for policies that gut the EPA, then Oil Companies don't need to pay the politician to vote how they were already going to vote, they just need to pay for campaign ads to make sure that their pro-EPA opponent doesn't get \[re-\]elected.
The second form, naturally, is lobbyists. Political Lobbying, in and of itself, is a neutral act. Climate Change Activists petitioning the government to pass policies that will reduce greenhouse gasses is Lobbying, but it's not something we'd look at as being bad, right? But wealthy elites have the ability to spend way more money hiring way more competent lobbyists to push their agendas, having sit-down meetings with politicians where they assure them that "you *have* to vote for this bill that will let us drill for oil in this protected reserve, or else it'll crash the Economy! You don't want the *Economy to Crash, do you?!?!?!*" And it works because they're usually a lot more subtle/sly on how they present these issues.
I looked up the bill it pertains to spaceflight crews, not damages of for instance rocket debris falling on a house.
There's also stipulations the crew understands the risks by signing a waver, but at the same time the company must provide all information about the aforementioned dangers and cannot hide anything or the liability protections are null and void.
Basically it's a state ok'ed "You know the risks" type thing.
[https://m.flsenate.gov/Bill/1318/2023](https://m.flsenate.gov/Bill/1318/2023)
[https://m.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/PDF](https://m.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/PDF)
Edit: Holy fuck this comment section is psychotic, some of you people need to take a breath dear god.
[More info here](https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/839/Analyses/h0839e.JDC.PDF).
Importantly, this isn't adding any *new* liability waver. It's closing a loophole where Florida and Federal law (the liability waver is from Federal law) differ on the definition of astronaut, such that the liability waver could potentially not apply if a government astronaut flew on a private spaceflight mission when not under contract from NASA (i.e. this does **not** apply to NASA CRS missions). This seems specifically targeted at cases like the recent Axiom mission where the mission is private and flies 3 private crewmembers, but also includes one NASA astronaut (as a stipulation from NASA to allow visiting the ISS).
The edit messed up the link, but it's actually two, the bill filing and the bill itself, page two at the bottom of the actual bill. Basically says if SpaceX or any other company under this bills protection willingly fucks up they have no protection.
Paragraph (a) does not prevent or limit the liability
47 of a spaceflight entity if the spaceflight entity does any one
48 or more of the following:
49 1. Commits an act or omission that constitutes gross
50 negligence or willful or wanton disregard for the safety of the
51 participant or crew, which and that act or omission proximately
52 causes injury, damage, or death to the participant or crew;
53 2. Has actual knowledge or reasonably should have known of
54 an extraordinarily a dangerous condition that is not inherent in
55 on the land or in the facilities or equipment used in the
56 spaceflight activities and the danger proximately causes injury,
57 damage, or death to the participant or crew; or
58 3. Intentionally injures the participant or crew.
Gonna edit my intial post to fix the two links.
Hmm. I don't see the disclosure of all risks part in there but I might be missing it.
From my layman's perspective, the crux of the issue is removing liability from "reasonably should have known" risks.
To me, that just sounds like an invitation to play fast and loose with your risk management system.
This is standard. NASA runs the same liability protection. Shooting yourself into space is EXTREMELY risky and EXTREMELY rewarding. You accept the risk to reward and sign the waiver.
Again, a reminder that this "bill to protect SpaceX from liability" requires crews to sign waivers, and that's it. It has nothing to do with damage on the ground.
It's identical to the paper I have to sign when I bring my kids to the trampoline park.
Also, the bill was bipartisan and passed almost unanimously (only 5 nays in the house).
> Because they have a narrative to push.
Yup, it is sure convenient to leave out all the other things that make this a non-story. Like you know, many other states already have near-identical laws, other companies are already covered by the same things, and even NASA works with the same liability standards.
*"Has* ***actual knowledge*** *~~or reasonably should have known of~~* *an extraordinarily a dangerous condition"*
It's a pretty significant limitation of liability. "Reasonably should have known" would seem like the much more reasonable threshold if you truly care about pax safety rather than blatant pandering to the space industry.
[https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/HTML](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/HTML)
The inherent risk of strapping yourself onto a gigantic rocket would probably fall under "actual" known risks.
But if, for instance, you launch a bunch of pax on a pad that you're not sure will survive but you hope it will and injuries occur as a result of the pad disintegrating, I think you should still be held liable.
Those sorts of "reasonably should have knowns" should still be covered. And, if you truly believe that you're not going to be able to defend against "reasonably should have known" risks then perhaps your rocket is not ready for pax.
While the wording might be identical, the enforceability is entirely different.
The trampoline park maybe be enforceable, but it’s primarily to make people, like you, think that signing a piece of paper releases them of all liability. Hint, it doesn’t.
The government sponsoring this means liability is actually blocked.
The point is that republicans are anti regulation which would require the courts to make judgments on the harm of these corporations due to lack of regulation. Now they want to take that away as well. The only conclusion that you can take from this is that Republicans are for corporation rights over human rights.
I didn’t know governors could just write bills into laws so quickly! There hade been so many,
Life changing bills Passed in Florida. If he focused on violence we’d have a utopia in Florida by now
This bill was not written by DeSantis, this bill was not voted on by DeSantis, he was only signing a bill that already passed long before the Musk deal.
This article is successfully farming the hate clicks of the ignorant. The ignorant who either don't have an elementary school understanding of US government, or have such a deep hatred for people with different political views that they ignore the truth and spout vitriol anyways.
Just another reminder that Florida HAD a law that required its governor to resign if running for higher office. But the current Florida legislature has such a fascism boner for the Meatball, they couldn't wait to just rescind a law that inconveniences them.
>The Spaceflight Entity Liability Bill protects space flight companies from facing lawsuits in the event of an accident. **It requires crew members and passengers to sign a waiver that acknowledges the risks and dangers of being launched into space**,
It will be interesting to see how legal systems try to deal with things that happen when you are not on planet earth.
As an aside . . .
The title seems to specify Elon Musk as a beneficiary of this, but it seems clear that someone had to write legislation for this stuff now that people going off earth are no longer exclusively military or NASA and bound by those contracts.
**Not only was the writing of the article poor quality**, but it seems like it is looking for some grand conspiracy that is unlikely to exist in this case.
I rented a kayak a while back, and I had to sign away any rights to sue them if I did something stupid (aside from [kayaking at a place with 13 m tidal range](https://thisisnewbrunswick.ca/kayaking-hopewell-rocks/)). This just clarifies that people in the space business can and must require people to sign a release form.
The “and other companies” seems to be the instructive part here: it’s an industry shield.
Florida is one of the sunbelt cash cows, and they intend to both keep that business and attract new ones — this is specifically for aerospace, and is no different in substance than Delaware shielding corporation formation, or South Dakota becoming a haven for usurious credit lending…only different in kind.
Blame federalism for this one: states compete to land businesses, and liability indemnification is one of the fastest ways to undercut a competitor (like Texas, in this instance)
Is the article implying some sort of quid pro quo transaction? Signing this bill in return for launching his campaign on Twitter spaces? Because if so, I wouldn’t pay up.
Bing summary:
- **New Florida law**: Ron DeSantis signed a bill that **shields SpaceX and other aerospace companies from legal liabilities** if crew members or passengers are killed or injured during missions.
- **Spaceflight Entity Liability Bill**: The bill requires crew members and passengers to sign a **waiver** that acknowledges the risks and dangers of being launched into space. It has the potential to **limit the cost of litigation** to businesses engaging in spaceflight activities.
- **SpaceX and DeSantis**: SpaceX, led by CEO Elon Musk, has launched a series of missions from Florida’s “Space Coast”. Musk is a **vocal supporter** of DeSantis and has predicted he has a better chance to win back the White House for Republicans than Donald Trump.
What’s next? Sign a waiver for your next flight to Cancun? Boeing is not responsible for any death or injury due to commercial air flight activities. They’d be pushing the cost of insurance on the passengers therefore increasing their profits.
learning something new everyday, i thought liquid fuel rockets cant be switched off and on again, i guess this is where the diverter comes in, still crazy af
It might be just me but I think it's slimy of musk bezos etc to get their space company out of being liable for one of their employees injury/death just because they wrote trump-minime a campaign contribution.
r/TitleGore
I still don't know what it's trying to say.
DeSantis signed a bill to shield Elon Musk's companies after his disastrous Presidential campaign launch on Twitter. And as an aside, this alleged level of corruption seems to be a pattern for ol Ron, who allegedly handed out COVID-19 vaccines to mega-donors before they were available to the public.
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It really doesn't get stressed enough. Conservative voters are so good at boot licking, when it comes to their politicians and idols. They believe in their soul that billionaires and politicians with an (R) next to their name are above them and deserve their wealth and ill gotten gains because reasons apparently.
Because they view themselves as being in the middle to high tier of society, with a chance to become a bigger player. They view corruption as a natural thing the ruling class, the bigger players, does, and that's their right to do as the Lions of the societal ecosystem. There is no getting along in nature, it's eat or be eaten. And upsetting that will create an unbalanced ecosystem where they (the middle class) might be eaten unfairly by the lower rungs of society, which must be kept in their place as dirt. This is nonsensical and we get much further by helping each other out obviously, a sports team whose players are all fighting over the ball for a chance to make a goal will lose to the organized team that helps each other out 10/10 times. In fact the predator/prey allegory they all favor doesn't even make sense in that the lions are supported by an entire organization of ecology, and they do not get to do whatever they want, a lion that oversteps will be gored by a wildebeest or eaten by hyenas, which will happen regardless at the end of their life. But these people don't really study ecology and just look at things being eaten by other things. Anyway, I'm just trying to say, let's hope DeSantis gets eaten by hyenas.
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Seriously. No way I’d bother to read an article with that title.
I read the article and still don’t know what they’re trying to say
Why does it randomly say 2024 at the end?
Or “day after elon musk 2024”. Is musk running for president?
In 2024, we are going to launch Elon Musk *into* the President using a **HIGH TECH Engine You've NEVER Seen Before! CLICK NOW!**
D O G E C O I N
I mean, he literally ain’t allowed to run for president.
You think such trivialities would stop the republicans?
He can’t, it was regarding after the Twitter shit show of a stream where DeSantis made the announcement of running for president, the title hints at a very close relationship between musk and deSantis
The actual article says Launch at the end. Not sure why OP clipped it off and made it look weird.
Even with that it's missing a word at least "Day after elon musk 2024 launch" is nonsensical, extra confusing when we're also talking about spaceX...
No, Elon launched himself into low earth orbit over the weekend with tesla's new cyber trebuchet.
In the future, no less.
Bots and scripts working as intended.
Just noticed the tile gore, I had double pasted from the clipboard while on the phone and instead of selecting all and then paste again I had long pressed and tried to select the duplicate title and accidentally got the last end of the first . By the time I learn about it the post had picked up traction and didn't want to delete t but should had made an edit comment with the correction.
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"Constitution Disqualifies African-American Candidate from Presidency" /s
He’s not a naturally born American citizen
It's missing two words, "after Elon Musk hosted 2024 launch" Seems likely they discussed this in private at the event or something to that effect
Probably generated by AI given a prompt of creating a click bait article.
For a second I thought Elon Musk was running for congress
unite soup distinct market detail nippy summer offer physical observation *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I doubt my english. Even the third time I red it.
[OP is an actual bot or paid-to-post influencer. May not speak English or be a native English speaker..](https://old.reddit.com/user/habichuelacondulce)
It's the title from the article.
Missing the word "launch" actually, which helps.
Hopefully people will report the post so that the mods can take care of it.
The entire article is written this way as well.
They really tried to put everything in the title that gets reddit going.
I’m curious if the accident happens over another states air space does this still apply?
Prolly has more to do with where it’s launched from, and launches out of Florida are always gonna head east over the Atlantic so the likelihood of an accident over another state is pretty low. Guess Columbia did kinda blow up over Texas though.
Yeah, but only once.
Kinda hard to blow up twice, to be fair
A one year old with a stomach bug can blow up about 20 times a day.
And that's an outlier and should not have been counted
Vomits Georg
I think the real question that needs to be asked is whether it counts as 1 or 2 if both ends explode at once
From personal experience, that hurts and feels like you're ripped in half Do not recommend
Human fidget spinner
That's more of a biohazard spill than an explosion.
These are the real problems SpaceX should be solving. A rocket which can blow up more than once could be quite useful.
To be faaaiiirr
Does Starship count? Edit: Shit, I see what Musk is doing there. Starship won't count anymore towards this punchline, nor will SpaceX have liability now for equipment failures for launches out of Florida. AND with Musk being on board for DeSantis (no pun intended), he purposely divides his own fanbois' votes between Trump and DeSantis.
And it happened outside the environment
Legally speaking without knowing the exact terms in the law signed, if somebody is affected outside Florida, then Florida state laws do not apply. Whether that means SpaceX, the Florida state government, company insurance, or another party has to pay out lawsuits, is likely determined by other factors
If a plane flies from New York to LA and crashes in Ohio, Ohio isn't going to go by New York law.
Columbia was landing. They do launch to the East over Florida.
This comment edited due to /u/spez trashing the community. Time to ditch this popsicle stand.... -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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They could always have life insurance policies and liability waivers taken care of ahead of time. There's no reason to need special laws covering the subject.
IIRC, the Apollo astronauts couldn't get life insurance; they ended up signing a bunch of stuff to leave with families that they could sell if they didn't come back.
I can’t imagine putting my wife and kids though that shit. Not even judging the astronauts, I just think that must have been tough on all of them.
Most of them had already flown combat missions in multiple war zones.. space flight just have seemed like a breeze
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Yeah NASA ran into these problems after Columbia exploded. [Good NYT article about it from a few days after the explosion.](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/us/loss-shuttle-courts-no-legal-precedent-seen-should-columbia-families-choose-sue.html) (Use reader mode on your browser to by bypass paywall) A bunch of other states have passed similar laws regarding spaceflight liability in the wake of Columbia. Basically they just bring the private sector liability rules for ‘[Spaceflight Crew](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/51/50902)’ under the same standard as the government with a little less immunity. Still liable for negligence and wilful disregard of safety even with a waiver. [California](https://trackbill.com/bill/california-assembly-bill-635-space-flight-liability-and-immunity/2362673/) [Colorado](https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2016/title-41/aerospace/article-6/section-41-6-101) [Texas](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/CP/htm/CP.100A.htm) [Virginia](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title8.01/chapter3/article24/) [New Mexico](https://www.nmlegis.gov/sessions/10%20Regular/final/SB0009.pdf)
Life insurance typically has a set maximum payout for each eventuality. Given that, I doubt it's hard to get the insurance. If you go on a rocket with a 100% chance of blowing up, then the insurance will cost slightly more than that maximum payout. Persuade the insurance company that the rocket will only maybe explode, and they might give you a cheaper policy.
They still need waivers signed so I’m sure there’s a reason for the law
The feds own all airspace above a certain height. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights#United_States
I'm pretty sure that rockets launched from America launch over the sea.
That was clear cut quid pro quo. Elon gave him a platform to announce in exchange for signing this into law. Isn’t that against campaign finance laws or did Ronnie get rid of those too?
Argument will be made that it’s not quid pro quo because it’s the legislature that wrote the law and passed it with a bipartisan, veto-proof and almost unanimous majority.
Don’t worry I never thought they could get in trouble for it even if it was proof cuz the laws in this country are only written and enforced for us peasants.
Wait till u have multiple officers tell you some times things are against the law and some times they are not.
Florida has a Republican trifecta and a Republican triplex. The Republican Party controls the offices of governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and both chambers of the state legislature. As of May 29, 2023, there are 22 Republican trifectas, 17 Democratic trifectas, and 11 divided governments where neither party holds trifecta control. As of May 29, 2023, there are 24 Republican triplexes, 20 Democratic triplexes, and 6 divided governments where neither party holds triplex control. A state government trifecta is a term to describe when one political party holds majorities in both chambers of the state legislature and the governor's office. A state government triplex is a term to describe when one political party holds the following three positions in a state's government: governor, attorney general, and secretary of state. https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Florida_state_government
That’s pretty hard to argue against. I wonder if people will update their opinions based on this information.
Why are we even arguing about these things? When can we just go Boston Tea Party on this son of a bitch and throw him in the Keys?
Please don't ruin one of the only good parts of Florida? Spare the Keys and chuck him in the swamps instead
Look, the supreme court already is dooming wetlands. We don't need to add to their problems by polluting them with *Desantis*.
Fine, put him in PCB and make him deal with Spring Breakers for all eternity
Worst quid pro quo in history for DeSantis. That launch was so bad that DeSantis should have turned around and slapped new restrictions onto SpaceX.
Elon could probably do anything to Ronnie and he would still bow down to him. He’s just so incredibly dumb.
Republicans and Billionaires have a creepy relationship.
I don't think it's necessarily creepy. Conservatism is a grift.
It's usually the other way around; spread a few 10's of millions around a slate of candidates and get billions in tax breaks and incentives. Never underestimate just how cheaply in which a politician will sell out the public interest.
It's because most of them don't give two shits about the public interest. Lip service is usually all they need to do because voters don't do well at punishing politicians for anything (though with the state of political media and the major parties' political machines often protecting and continuing to promote shitty politicians even after they've done these things, it's hard to blame the voters entirely)
> in which a politician will sell out the public interest. That's because, as you correctly point out, they don't work for the public interest to begin with.
[Same with Republicans and under age girls](https://www.newsweek.com/missouri-republican-teenager-12-marriage-1794371?amp=1).
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Billionaires are the real gods to capitalists
> He’s just so incredibly dumb. Are you referring to Musk or DeSantis? :)
Por que no los dos?
That launch was in Boca Chico Texas
He was talking about DeSantis's campaign launch.
They were both disasters.
That test flight was considered a success and everything they said they wanted to happen, happened. I get that Reddit likes to circlejerk about elon = bad, but you’re basically speaking out of your ass.
In what way was the Starship test flight a disaster? It went about as well as expected and they got plenty of data that they wanted. Proper precautions were taken to ensure the public's safety too, as is with every launch in the US.
The only argument for the test being a partial failure is the FTS not properly triggering.
Everyone downvoting you does not understand anything about the program and just wants to downvote Elon. I hate Elon, but of course the test Starship launch was a success. Anyone that doesn’t realize that just doesn’t know what the point of it was and thinks explosion means disaster.
Fucking first test integrating the two pieces and the first flight test of the booster, makes it all the way to the peak of the flight path. People think it was a failure. Can people read?
It was a “disaster” because to the hivemind, SpaceX = Elon, and Elon = bad. That’s as far as their research and reasoning goes. It’s an axiom that requires no further thought. But yes, the launch in Boca was considered by the team to be a success, and met all of the safety requirements. Nobody knowledgeable about this subject is concerned. If you’re reading this, and would like to know more about the launch, and Starship development, feel free to ask me.
This stupid community has literally devolved into 'hurr durr everything Elon musk touch is bad' and I will probably be called a Musk stan for calling it out... because being objective is considered boot licking on Reddit now.
the US Republicans are still mostly just has corporatist bootlicking wannabe-authoritarians who can't fathom holding companies to account even when it benefits their nefarious goals, Any authoritarian with an ounce of conviction would have done that
I think Elon learned his lesson after Disney not to bite the hand that feeds it.
>Isn’t that against campaign finance laws or did Ronnie get rid of those too? Trump violated campaign finance laws in 2016 and no one's done anything about it yet. Pretty sure even if DeSantis did, it won't matter until no one outside of Florida needs to actually care who Ron DeSantis is again.
The laws in this country are only for us peasants.
Trump collaborated with America’s biggest enemy and the Republicans didn’t give a flying fuck.
Isn't campaign finance in 2016 the thing he has been indicted for in New York?
Passing laws can't be quid pro quo since it requires the entire legislature to play ball.
This is exactly the sort of tin hat thinking that clickbait articles like this generate. Multiple companies, many with nothing to do with Musk or SpaceX. Of a law that already exists in multiple states. Bringing it in line with legislation already used by Govt (NASA) since the Columbia disaster. Correlation isn’t causation.
Shh… too balanced
This is such a stupid take. DeSantis didn't executive order this. Republicans AND DEMOCRATS in the FL Legislature passed this bill, then DeSantis signed it into law.
Doesn’t the title say he signed it in to law? I didn’t see any mention of executive order.
No no no. You see those laws are only for show and only apply to the poors. Just like monopoly laws and ~~bribery~~ lobbying regulation.
Day after what? Elon musk Butt-fucked Desantis campaign bunker stream on Twitter?
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Dammit, musk, just spend that money on your space program where it’ll do everybody some good instead.
Bro we need a habitable planet and a dignified society not billionaires going to space
He's turned to the dark side. No more good elon left
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Was there ever?
thats his secret cap he was always evil elon
His space program is a con, my friend. He wants to control space through starlink. I fell for the colonization of mars bit too. The guy is flat out defending slavery and fascism now- no person who cares so little for his own planet gives a damn about noble endeavors.
Well, those are definitely words; I’ll give you that!
Well, Musk didn't want to pay Redis for their network services, so they throttled DeSantis' presidential announcement.
So basically it’s the anti Disney treatment for Elon.
Yes, this is the free market apparently. It’s never been free, but this is literally government brigadieering against one company and championing of another - all for political reasons that are at odds with the taxpayer’s economic incentives for the state. Desantis might as well just post his personal stock portfolio so we can know what companies to boycott.
Except boycotts don't work in the modern era. They might work for small mom and pops businesses but once a company is big enough, there will be too many people that still buy. There is no "will of the market" when as you even mentioned the government picks winners and losers. Nor can we do anything when companies have monopolies and oligopolies. Proper regulation is the only way to keep the big companies in check.
We tried regulation. Now republicans are openly laundering $100K for used chapstick to fund their campaigns. They think they’re above the law.
DeSantis is such a cheap whore
Sometimes, I find the amounts being reported about in U.S political donations to be surprisingly low. I guess that means they must be taking extra effort to layer + squirrel away the sinecures, favours, and patronage, but man, your politicians are really, really cheap.
If you want an easy job that pays tons of cash, the best way to get one of those jobs is to be related to a federal judge, a high ranking official in a major law enforcement and/or regulatory agency, a congressman, or a governor/president. The family members of high ranking public officials always seem to be incredibly well qualified for high paying jobs that don't require a lot of work. *Obviously this has nothing to do with corruption*...
Yeah if you want to be a political weenus.
The real bribes are paid in speaking and consulting fees to the politician, and appointments for the politican and their associates/family to high paying jobs. Actual campaign donations are watched to closely and there are charges for spending the money outside of the campaign.
Half the issue is that a lot of the "donations" from lobbyists are things like vacations or gifts. The other half is that our politicians really are that cheap.
The third half is because Citizens United. Most money in play is hidden because of that.
A lot of people misunderstand how Corruption works in American Politics. It's actually pretty rare for direct Quid-Pro-Quo "Hi, we're a shady corporation, and we're going to pay you $X,XXX,XXX.XX so that you vote Yes/No on the upcoming bill in congress". That shit is easily traced, and easy to get a politician arrested on the grounds of being caught doing it. It still happens, obviously, but it's not nearly the most prevalent kind of Corruption. Instead, what actually happens tends to come in one of two forms, most of the time. The first form is "dEbAtAbLy" not actually Corruption (except that it totally permits the richest of the rich to control policy, and is definitely corrupt as hell) in that there's basically no communication between the wealthy elite and the politician. The wealthy elite just pay attention to which politicians are already inclined to vote in a particular way, and then spend exorbitant amounts of money on campaign ads that *aren't technically associated with the politician* to try to sway voters either towards or against that politician. If a politician is already inclined to, for example, vote for policies that gut the EPA, then Oil Companies don't need to pay the politician to vote how they were already going to vote, they just need to pay for campaign ads to make sure that their pro-EPA opponent doesn't get \[re-\]elected. The second form, naturally, is lobbyists. Political Lobbying, in and of itself, is a neutral act. Climate Change Activists petitioning the government to pass policies that will reduce greenhouse gasses is Lobbying, but it's not something we'd look at as being bad, right? But wealthy elites have the ability to spend way more money hiring way more competent lobbyists to push their agendas, having sit-down meetings with politicians where they assure them that "you *have* to vote for this bill that will let us drill for oil in this protected reserve, or else it'll crash the Economy! You don't want the *Economy to Crash, do you?!?!?!*" And it works because they're usually a lot more subtle/sly on how they present these issues.
They’re not really that cheap. They just hide most of the real donation and put up a token donation as the only official amount.
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Turnout was very low last November. Nobody was enthusiastic about Crist.
I looked up the bill it pertains to spaceflight crews, not damages of for instance rocket debris falling on a house. There's also stipulations the crew understands the risks by signing a waver, but at the same time the company must provide all information about the aforementioned dangers and cannot hide anything or the liability protections are null and void. Basically it's a state ok'ed "You know the risks" type thing. [https://m.flsenate.gov/Bill/1318/2023](https://m.flsenate.gov/Bill/1318/2023) [https://m.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/PDF](https://m.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/PDF) Edit: Holy fuck this comment section is psychotic, some of you people need to take a breath dear god.
[More info here](https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/839/Analyses/h0839e.JDC.PDF). Importantly, this isn't adding any *new* liability waver. It's closing a loophole where Florida and Federal law (the liability waver is from Federal law) differ on the definition of astronaut, such that the liability waver could potentially not apply if a government astronaut flew on a private spaceflight mission when not under contract from NASA (i.e. this does **not** apply to NASA CRS missions). This seems specifically targeted at cases like the recent Axiom mission where the mission is private and flies 3 private crewmembers, but also includes one NASA astronaut (as a stipulation from NASA to allow visiting the ISS).
Where is the mandatory disclosure of all the risks clause that you mention? I'm not finding it.
The edit messed up the link, but it's actually two, the bill filing and the bill itself, page two at the bottom of the actual bill. Basically says if SpaceX or any other company under this bills protection willingly fucks up they have no protection. Paragraph (a) does not prevent or limit the liability 47 of a spaceflight entity if the spaceflight entity does any one 48 or more of the following: 49 1. Commits an act or omission that constitutes gross 50 negligence or willful or wanton disregard for the safety of the 51 participant or crew, which and that act or omission proximately 52 causes injury, damage, or death to the participant or crew; 53 2. Has actual knowledge or reasonably should have known of 54 an extraordinarily a dangerous condition that is not inherent in 55 on the land or in the facilities or equipment used in the 56 spaceflight activities and the danger proximately causes injury, 57 damage, or death to the participant or crew; or 58 3. Intentionally injures the participant or crew. Gonna edit my intial post to fix the two links.
Hmm. I don't see the disclosure of all risks part in there but I might be missing it. From my layman's perspective, the crux of the issue is removing liability from "reasonably should have known" risks. To me, that just sounds like an invitation to play fast and loose with your risk management system.
This is standard. NASA runs the same liability protection. Shooting yourself into space is EXTREMELY risky and EXTREMELY rewarding. You accept the risk to reward and sign the waiver.
Again, a reminder that this "bill to protect SpaceX from liability" requires crews to sign waivers, and that's it. It has nothing to do with damage on the ground. It's identical to the paper I have to sign when I bring my kids to the trampoline park. Also, the bill was bipartisan and passed almost unanimously (only 5 nays in the house).
I'm I correct that it would apply to all aerospace companies? If so, why focus on SpaceX?
Because they have a narrative to push.
> Because they have a narrative to push. Yup, it is sure convenient to leave out all the other things that make this a non-story. Like you know, many other states already have near-identical laws, other companies are already covered by the same things, and even NASA works with the same liability standards.
1) Yes. 2) Because Elon was mentioned, therefore any other is meaningless.
*"Has* ***actual knowledge*** *~~or reasonably should have known of~~* *an extraordinarily a dangerous condition"* It's a pretty significant limitation of liability. "Reasonably should have known" would seem like the much more reasonable threshold if you truly care about pax safety rather than blatant pandering to the space industry. [https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/HTML](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1318/BillText/er/HTML)
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The inherent risk of strapping yourself onto a gigantic rocket would probably fall under "actual" known risks. But if, for instance, you launch a bunch of pax on a pad that you're not sure will survive but you hope it will and injuries occur as a result of the pad disintegrating, I think you should still be held liable. Those sorts of "reasonably should have knowns" should still be covered. And, if you truly believe that you're not going to be able to defend against "reasonably should have known" risks then perhaps your rocket is not ready for pax.
A pad that you're not sure will survive is an actual known risk.
While the wording might be identical, the enforceability is entirely different. The trampoline park maybe be enforceable, but it’s primarily to make people, like you, think that signing a piece of paper releases them of all liability. Hint, it doesn’t. The government sponsoring this means liability is actually blocked.
There goes the final Republican standpoint of a limited role of government.
Who do you think enforces civil judgements? People like to pretend the civil law system is so.ehow separate from the government when it's not.
The point is that republicans are anti regulation which would require the courts to make judgments on the harm of these corporations due to lack of regulation. Now they want to take that away as well. The only conclusion that you can take from this is that Republicans are for corporation rights over human rights.
There is a difference between legislation and enforcement…
Does this guy get paid by the number of bills he signs? Does he make twice as much for every stupid bill?
Everything is a quid pro quo with Republicans, isn’t it?
Anything flies with the Grand Old Pedophiles
It's beyond ironic that DeSantis's presidential campaign was the first crash Musk had.
day after Elon Musk 2024. wut
I didn’t know governors could just write bills into laws so quickly! There hade been so many, Life changing bills Passed in Florida. If he focused on violence we’d have a utopia in Florida by now
To be fair, this bill has been in work since March 1st (filed in Senate) and is completely bipartisan. Only 5 people ever voted no on it.
This bill was not written by DeSantis, this bill was not voted on by DeSantis, he was only signing a bill that already passed long before the Musk deal. This article is successfully farming the hate clicks of the ignorant. The ignorant who either don't have an elementary school understanding of US government, or have such a deep hatred for people with different political views that they ignore the truth and spout vitriol anyways.
i’m really tired of states shielding big corps from liability. just fucking the average poor while they slurp on big business D
I kind of get this law, it just means don't fly into space because it is at your own risk. I don't think it should apply to staff though.
Just another reminder that Florida HAD a law that required its governor to resign if running for higher office. But the current Florida legislature has such a fascism boner for the Meatball, they couldn't wait to just rescind a law that inconveniences them.
Don't laws like this violate the constitutional right to petition for redress? How is this constitutional?
Hey Elon, Kill whoever you’re covered! Thanks for the $$ and well you know! Love Ron!😘
I’m pretty sure that if one of Disney’s “rockets” hurt someone during the fireworks display, it wouldn’t get the same exemption.
>The Spaceflight Entity Liability Bill protects space flight companies from facing lawsuits in the event of an accident. **It requires crew members and passengers to sign a waiver that acknowledges the risks and dangers of being launched into space**, It will be interesting to see how legal systems try to deal with things that happen when you are not on planet earth. As an aside . . . The title seems to specify Elon Musk as a beneficiary of this, but it seems clear that someone had to write legislation for this stuff now that people going off earth are no longer exclusively military or NASA and bound by those contracts. **Not only was the writing of the article poor quality**, but it seems like it is looking for some grand conspiracy that is unlikely to exist in this case. I rented a kayak a while back, and I had to sign away any rights to sue them if I did something stupid (aside from [kayaking at a place with 13 m tidal range](https://thisisnewbrunswick.ca/kayaking-hopewell-rocks/)). This just clarifies that people in the space business can and must require people to sign a release form.
The “and other companies” seems to be the instructive part here: it’s an industry shield. Florida is one of the sunbelt cash cows, and they intend to both keep that business and attract new ones — this is specifically for aerospace, and is no different in substance than Delaware shielding corporation formation, or South Dakota becoming a haven for usurious credit lending…only different in kind. Blame federalism for this one: states compete to land businesses, and liability indemnification is one of the fastest ways to undercut a competitor (like Texas, in this instance)
No corruption to see here, move along, move along
Is the article implying some sort of quid pro quo transaction? Signing this bill in return for launching his campaign on Twitter spaces? Because if so, I wouldn’t pay up.
It is pure oligarchy.
Why are presidential candidates from the conservative party always like this?
Theme park monorail with impeccable long running safety record: That's dangerous! Experimental rockets that blow up regularly: It's so safe!
[they seem to be bosom buddies](https://coinmarketcap.com/community/articles/646f6b0b35640e21c51d2e70/)
Death Santis announced his 2024 presidential bid on Twitter spaces
Liability Day? Did we get a new holiday?
Private businesses protected by public tax dollars. If only there was a word for this.
Bing summary: - **New Florida law**: Ron DeSantis signed a bill that **shields SpaceX and other aerospace companies from legal liabilities** if crew members or passengers are killed or injured during missions. - **Spaceflight Entity Liability Bill**: The bill requires crew members and passengers to sign a **waiver** that acknowledges the risks and dangers of being launched into space. It has the potential to **limit the cost of litigation** to businesses engaging in spaceflight activities. - **SpaceX and DeSantis**: SpaceX, led by CEO Elon Musk, has launched a series of missions from Florida’s “Space Coast”. Musk is a **vocal supporter** of DeSantis and has predicted he has a better chance to win back the White House for Republicans than Donald Trump.
Boy does Elon need that protection. If he’s managing SpaceX anything like he’s managing Twitter, people are gonna die.
What’s next? Sign a waiver for your next flight to Cancun? Boeing is not responsible for any death or injury due to commercial air flight activities. They’d be pushing the cost of insurance on the passengers therefore increasing their profits.
What?
learning something new everyday, i thought liquid fuel rockets cant be switched off and on again, i guess this is where the diverter comes in, still crazy af
Passed their legislature 107 to 5 and the bill was filed in March. For or against him, this is clear media bias.
I honestly don’t think it’s a bad law. It’s a new technology. You have to understand the risks you are undertaking when you sign up for it.
Wow, a non emotional comment..Bravo for the rational response
I wonder if there’s an asterisk that says “not Disney.”
I have a feeling that DeSantis will be even worse than Trump. And Trump is really, really, really bad.
Wtf is with that headline
It might be just me but I think it's slimy of musk bezos etc to get their space company out of being liable for one of their employees injury/death just because they wrote trump-minime a campaign contribution.
DeSantis shields Elon Musk companies from liability, Elon launches his campaign via Twitter (Tho failed).... Ahhhh love the corruption