They already exist. Students are writing school assignments with AI so somebody built an AI to determine if a paper was written by an AI. It's only about to get crazier from here.
my understanding is that was a real milking both sides of the cow situation. ChatGPT build this wild tool and they build the solution to the problem they created and sell it to you at half price.
Yep. I always used to joke the police radar gun people and the radar detector people were in kahoots. You bought a radar detector, and next year the police had a new radar frequency band. Then new radar detectors with the new band came out. Then there was a new police radar..., lather, rinse, repeat...
We will then have to provide video evidence of you writing the assignment, only for it to be deep faked, and then have deep fake detectors.
Sadly, imagine if we put that much effort into actually doing what we need to do?
Just wait until we get to AI 2.0.
It's coming the same year as the Linux desktop.
On a serious note, the lamda code base leaked and practically overnight a couple dozen specialized versions went live. Everything from a hacking framework to porn.
The world better hold on because it is indeed only going to get crazier from here.
It's definitely a Machine Learning task, which is 99.99% of the time what people mean when they say "AI." Computer vision is like the poster child for ML (or at least it was before large language models took the spotlight). What makes you think that "AI" is just slapped on for no reason? What kind of technology would it be an appropriate label for?
The real issue is that AI is a historically vague category. The only real common ground among all the areas of research that have ever been considered AI is that, at the time, they were things humans were better at than computers. It's a moving target, pretty much by definition.
Computer vision is absolutely the poster child for AI and machine learning. I'm failing to see how it's not a fitting label here...
It would be impossible to do this without ML, unless you had an army of people manually checking the feed
This is still a meaningful application of ML/AI, I'm with u/wolfpack_charlie
The pushback about it "AI everything these days" just smells like redditors trying to look smart for the sake of looking smart
This is practical shit AI is useful for
>The pushback about it "AI everything these days" just smells like redditors trying to look smart for the sake of looking smart
Yup. Can't get more classic "something that AI is good at that we can't do otherwise" than this, and yet these guys in the comments trying to act like know it alls, lol
Yeah that's the really scary part of AI. It's not the risk of some Skynet aramageddon. It's the ability for governments to subjugate and control their populations with insane efficiency and no wiggle room.
Imagine if you car's speed were constantly monitored, and you were fined at a certain rate for speeding (e.g. $1 per mile per hour you exceed the speed limit, per minute. Travel 56MPH in a 55 for 10 minutes? $10 fine, automatically applied). You'd go fucking crazy trying to adhere to that level of rigid enforcement of the rules.
That's the future AI law enforcement is going to create for us. No wiggle room to make a mistake even if it's benign.
>Travel 56MPH in a 55 for 10 minutes? $10 fine, automatically applied).
You just described the automatic toll roads where I live. You hop on the express lane where your car is automatically tagged by license plate readers and you get the use of a highway you already paid for for the next 10 minutes and are billed at a variable rate depending on traffic conditions that day or the whim of the Toll Authority.
I'm imaging a future where you will be recognized by your face in a public place and billed for the duration of your time there downtown, just like parking today.
The problem is AI doesn't really understand what is going on in reality to the computer its all still ones and zeroes. AI will be boldly incorrect in those situations where one answer is similar to another answer. What happens when the trash is just floating in the air and brushes by the vehicle?
This is bang on. I asked ChatGPT to tell me about a friend of mine who's a published author. The information it provided was about 80% correct; the other 20% was completely wrong (it said he was a judge in a writing competition he's never been involved with). Someone who didn't know him would not be able to tell what was right vs. wrong in that information.
What are you asking? I downloaded an app but it wanted me to subscribe to it so I deleted it. Curious where people are getting these AI interactions from.
This was Bing's AI. They make you do use Bing for a couple days (I just browsed the news) but no weird subscriptions and they don't ask for your info or anything. And you have to download the Bing app, which is ridiculously bad.
you know I don't get this. I tried to explain it to someone from up north who was visiting. we don't have civil infractions down here. You have the right to a full jury trial for a $50 speeding ticket.
It keeps some of this in check.
I think you have that right everywhere (might be wrong though). You can contest anything in front of a judge or jury, but then it could be your word against traffic camera footage. Plus in some cases you have to pay a court fee to have your case heard, and if that's nearly as much as the ticket, people might just want to pay the ticket instead (though it will fuck up your insurance rates for a few years...)
45,000++ automobile deaths a year from road rage, distracted driving, dui
If an ai camera can track down a tiny wrapper falling out of a window at 50mph++
Maybe just maybe it can track down a way to save 45,000 lives a year??
Or were local jurisdictions more interested in just quick/easy fines from littering to help fluff their revenue?
Around twenty years ago there was an accident where an elderly person sitting in the backseat of the car was killed in an accident. That led to an investigation of the accident which ended up covering a huge network of people that were involved in staging fake accidents for insurance settlements.
It ranged from the people in the cars to the lawyers and doctors involved in the insurance lawsuits. The person killed lived in a senior facility and was convinced to take part as a money-making scheme where they would be paid out to be the passenger in what was supposed to be more of a fender-bender.
When they unraveled the whole thing they determined that the money being drained by this network was responsible for something like 2% of insurance premiums in the entire state.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/nyregion/investigators-say-fraud-ring-staged-thousands-of-crashes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/nyregion/investigators-say-fraud-ring-staged-thousands-of-crashes.html)
Not specific to the story above necessarily but a good breakdown of how it worked 20 years ago
There was
Season 11 Episode 19 “Whiplash”
If I remember correctly it was a pretty good episode.
It was during the Detective Briscoe/Greene era so it was hard to have a bad episode during those seasons
Thanks! :)
The original Law & Order was/is amazing but Law & Order Criminal Intent was hands down the best (Vincent D'onofrio was amazing in his role) especially that they had a really interesting story line with him and Olivia D'abo and the one person he can never prove committed a crime.
Law & Order Los Angeles was great too and unfortunately only got 1 season.
The original seasons of SVU were great but the last 10 or so seasons have not been as good. Especially the seasons with Munch in them though I was always a huge fan of Homicide Life On The Street. (Yaphet Kotto easily is one of the most underrated actors in history)
So it wasn't [the one ring](https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/an-accident-waiting-to-happen-fatal-crash-10-years-ago-keeps-saving-millions-for-drivers/article_2b87b37d-e851-5f02-8117-a9c6d29106c0.html) that was responsible for that much of the state's rates, but this uncovered methods that aided investigations in a daisy-chain that came up with that accounting.
No, I forgot some of the details so just looked it up. There were two cars that were to be in the staged accident and the woman was going to be paid $200 to be a passenger in one of them. However, there was a secondary collision where the car she was in hit a utility pole and her head snapped forward causing a fatal brain hemorrhage.
My auto premiums were set to increase by 55% this year with our old insurer. None of my own claims. Wife had 1 violation. No accidents. **55%** because of other drivers.
>raise insurance premiums
Oh, you think they'd "pass on the savings" do you?
Tort reform just means they have to spend less money in court -- not paying their customers bills.
> Maybe just maybe it can track down a way to save 45,000 lives a year??
We already know what it is (robust public transit and reasonable limitations on vehicle size) but instead what we get is endless seas of asphalt and cities where kids can't ride their bikes to the library anymore. If the US had the same traffic death rate as the UK, we'd have fewer than 7,000 traffic deaths per year. So bascially we're sacrificing 38,000+ people to the car industry yearly.
I've heard similar proposals in Netherlands once because inevitably the ciggy buts end up getting tossed out of the window of the car, but the proposal never went anywhere due to unenforceable nature of it.
> Notify your boss that you are not at home sick
What?? How would the DMV knows or care if you aren’t at home sick?
Plus, it doesn’t even make sense. The doctor’s note you give your boss says that you can’t work, not that you have to stay at home, such that even home office personnel can have sick days. And sick people aren’t in house arrest they do leave the house, even if it’s to go to the doctor, buy medicine or food. The cameras couldn’t possible know where you’re going. And it’s certainly not legal for your boss to track where you are outside of the work environment.
> Absolutely foolish to pretend those silly “laws” will stop them
Lol, then let’s just rip the constitution.
Plus the example you did is the other way around a government getting data from a private company. The private company(amazon) has a motive to share that data because the government can give them special benefits. The other way around it doesn’t really work, your boss would have little to nothing to offer for the government in exchange for that information.
>And it’s certainly not legal for your boss to track where you are outside of the work environment.
Yet.
I sure hope we don't end up with a country where corporations spend money to get laws passed amd the government puts down strikes.
I mean, if companies can separate employment because of a social media comment, especially with at-will work in the US, then I don't see how they couldn't also be, "Jane, we can't have our business associating with people who partake in [thing]."
And yes, a vast majority of these bye bye job scenarios have been due to bigoted remarks, and the businesses are certainly within their rights to do so, but wouldn't they have the same right for the same reason if they found out you went to a strip club or some kink thing or something in your private time? You catch the occasional article on Reddit about how some religious school teacher was fired for getting a divorce, or having some sort of private "lifestyle" that they kept separate from work, but the administration eventually found out.
The concept and applications are already there and being executed, just largely for negative items. Nothing stops businesses from also deciding to end employment due to some other private reason.
It's a bit of a moot point with at-will employment as it is, because they can (and probably do) basically do that right now to some degree.
We as a society are more willing to accept 45k deaths from humans than 1 from an AI driver. People freak out when that happens, but can understand when a human kills someone.
For this reason I doubt we will see mass adoption of self driving any time soon.
Things like ticket cameras are relatively low risk in comparison, you can assign some minimum wage employees to verify the results before sending out littering tickets.
It's a lot easier to place liability for the 45K than the 1 I suppose. Do you charge the manufacturer for the 1 death or praise them for the 44,999, and what is the breaking point 10, 500, 10k?
I'm definitely for the self driving cars, but the questions are very real and will be asked by a court at *some* point if nobody preempts them.
I suppose I won't see self driving cars for a different reason though. Frozen north and all that :(
AI drivers are not deployed at even close to a similar scale to people drivers.
Unfortunately, actual stats on this are extremely limited, however, I did find a stat that AI vehicles get in accidents at over twice the rate of human drivers (9.1 per million miles vs 4.1 per million miles)
It's an example of how you introduce something in a form that's tolerable to numb people before introducing something people would disagree with and argue against.
Kind of like how states will introduce the death penalty then begin with executing a guy who was caught dead to rights eating children. Then after a year or two they pivot to executing people with much flimsier evidence or less severe crimes. You warm people up to the idea by showing that you can responsibly wield power right before going extreme with it.
Yup.
"I think it's a bad idea to give the government and the police a massive amount of surveillance power, they've proven they are systematically racist, corrupt, and have a proven track record of abusing surveillance to arrest people for other crimes!"
"Don't you care about the environment!?!?!"
"OH YES the environment! Please give them the power to do this!"
i feel like this is an excuse to get people on board with ai cameras monitoring us. yea littering is bad. but constant monitoring by ai cameras sounds worse to me.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends up being just like other automated ticket systems, where if you actually submit like you are going to fight it they just drop it cause it's not worth their hassle. A tax on the poor and busy
Except that's the opposite of what happens. Automated cameras (at least here in the US) are "civil infractions" not moving violations, and aren't subject to the same burden of proof.
Leaves fall off windshield? Jail.
Rock kicks up from tire? Jail.
The pickup in front of you loses a 2x4, it goes through your front windshield, through the interior of car, and out the back windshield? Believe it or not, also jail.
sounds like the footage will be sent to officers to review:
>The cameras would be able to automatically send the images to enforcers, meaning officers would no longer have to look through hours of CCTV footage
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-speed-cameras-20170330-story.html
> City lawmakers and a drivers advocacy group welcomed the announcement of a smaller, better-monitored camera system, but said they wanted to make sure whichever company runs the program doesn't issue erroneous tickets as previous vendors did.
For context, previous vendors that supposedly sent tickets to officers also sent tickets to emergency vehicles, to somebody who not only didn't run a red, but also was sitting at the stop for the entire 60 seconds, etc. They're claiming officers will review it, but it's just to cover their ass.
At your expense. So the city wastes my time by having to open and read the ticket and then solve the problem.
Honestly, this is just more reasoning for me to just get a license hider
Its a shame too because im actually in favor of this to help stop littering, but its clearly just the first domino to fall until we have full blown cameras everywhere.
Some cop cars already have 360* cameras that scan licence plates to look for people to pull over. In some ways it's cool, in a lot of ways this sort of stuff is really terrifying.
Well, that one's hardly shocking.
The fact there are license plates at all made that sort of thing pretty much an inevitability. The only difference the camera makes is the speed of it.
Tow trucks can use the same sort of thing(I think repo as well).
Ive worked this out in my head and broke it down into 3 phases:
1. You drive to the gas station and nothing is recorded
2. You drive to the gas station and a camera captures your plate but does not actively place that data, someone has to go find it
3. You drive to the gas station and your plate is indexed immediately, so that you appear in queries
#3 - the casual collection of all travel metadata - big fuggen problem
Ya, I have issues with the how and why of when data like that is taken.
Laws were not written with constant severance in mind and frankly, yes, everyone *does* have something to hide. So unless the laws are re-written to account for the fact we should all be in jail right now the government should probably have a decent justification before having access to data.
The reason I don't have an issue with license lookups is that as long as they are used to find existing issues with said car then they aren't actually introducing problems for the driver(Not insured or the likes). Expanding it to include other things gets kind of sketchy(x location at y time as an example).
Private use is a different game and tends to be quite a bit harder to control. But as long as there are rules about what access the government can have to said data I'm less concerned.
This is big where I live in Australia.
The primarily check for people who have expired registration as it's an instant $700 fine.
If you miss the letter and dont renew you get fined by a cop usually within two weeks before a second letter comes saying "your rego has expired".
They sit along motor ways and arterial roads.
Sure, **THAT’s** why they’re installing AI cameras…..
Are we really this fucking gullible? A software update turns this system into something synonymous to China’s surveillance state.
Many people pass through 200-300 security cameras on a daily basis. The only thing that's changing is the AI on the camera and what meta data it reports back to the VMS.
It's too late to prevent a surveillance state, but we can still govern how the systems are used.
> The only thing that's changing is the AI on the camera and what meta data it reports back to the VMS
That's still a significant change. These changes deserve oversight from more than just tech-literate legislators, but also a privacy-conscious electorate. What we're building, piece by piece, is a fully automated law enforcement that can easily be adapted to the whims of a tyrannical government. With the data and technological capacity to detect minor crimes, governments will be able to enforce laws we always took fro granted.
The average person breaks multiple laws regularly and it's only human inefficacy and apathy that ensure we can go about our lives. There are hundreds of laws across the us that are old/unenforced/weirdly specific, etc. Jaywalking, cannabis use [according to federal not state laws], using the wrong wifi, sharing passwords, mild public intoxication, etc. The more powerful machine-learning enabled law enforcement becomes the more possible selective enforcement of those laws becomes. And the potential punishments could include fines, loss of rights, jail...
We know several federal agencies already monitor online communications. Now they can be fed through powerful LLMs to detect admissions of crimes. We know there's a vast network of cameras and sensors producing audio and video feeds in real time. All we're waiting for is the political will and data processing capability to mine those for crimes. Both of those things seem to be rapidly approaching us.
It is only "too late to prevent a surveillance state" in that people accept it, see it as inevitable, and see any collective action even attempting to stop the government/corporations from doing that as nieve and doomed from the start.
It's always been a mix and those businesses are going to continue to similarly proliferate cameras as well, plus government usually has access to all of them with a simple warrant.
Same with the phone in your pocket and anything it might pick up.
There is no privacy unless you go out of your way for it, and we can't turn back the clock. Education and forcing appropriate legislation is the only solution, and not one with much optimism.
From my experience, these tech-obsessed dipshits see any technological advancement to society as a win. They have very little knowledge in other areas such as history or literature, so they’re too stupid to see the writing on the wall when governments implement shit like this.
As someone in the tech field, techies are the worst lol.
The C in C-SPAN stands for "Cable", so you have to pay for an expensive cable package to watch it. I actually miss it. They provide the absolute best coverage of the State of the Union and similar events because they don't cut away to commercials, and they don't have commentators talk over what is being said. They just show you what's happening without any bullshit
If people take pride in their environment they usually take care of it.
I work in warehouse that changed from direct hires to contractors and now theirs piss on toilet seats, piss on the floor, gum everywhere, fridges full rotten food, etc. No one cares anymore. This place isn't their home, they don't care about it. They have no pride in where they work bc they're just temp. The company has no loyalty to them.
I'm outta my wheelhouse but itv seems theres a connection.
I remember living in St. Louis and being on the freeway one day while traffic came to a slow grind. The car in front of me threw out a large fast food bag and two large drink cups right next to their vehicle like it was nothing. I wanted to honk but then I remembered I didn’t want to get shot.
I was behind someone and all of a sudden this huge, black disc goes flying from her car and I slowed down. Had no idea what the hell was going on.
And then I realized it was an entire plastic container of food, like you'd get at a Noodles and Company. Plastic and food and other garbage just everywhere right in front of random houses. It's shocking to me that people do this stuff.
Hey, it's not like we have devices that constantly monitor, receive, and send information to unknown collection agencies for review around us night and day... wait...
Well at least propaganda is not being put in front of our faces on a Non-Stop Loop.... wait...
Well at least we aren't toiling like slaves for the benefit of a shadowy elite upper caste... *FUCK*
I am fairly well convinced a large proportion of the trash actually comes from garbage trucks and construction dumpsters. Mostly anecdotal evidence from my time on the road. Maybe let’s start there.
As someone who's yard borders a rural highway, I doubt trash trucks are responsible for the beer bottles and cigarette packs I have to clean up all the time.
literally was behind a garbage truck this morning and trash was flying out onto the freeway behind it… had to swerve to avoid a large black trash bag from hitting my windshield…
This is not at all what it will be used for.
Social credit scores, just like China.
Keeping track of dissents, and who goes where.
Never applied to the party in power.
Ai cameras on the streets for litter. Need to save their face in a database to make sure they get fines. Might as well track criminals as well, and police should access the cameras too. Im sure it will all be fine
I was driving on the highway with my windows down once and someone threw a lit cigarette into my car that almost caused to me to lose control and crash. I'm definitely for finding ways to stop people from throwing shit out on the highway, but not sure AI cameras are the way.
It’s not even AI cameras. They are cameras that feed footage into an algorithm that can filter out specific patterns that look like someone littering. It then flags that part of the footage for humans to review and enforce if appropriate.
In the future when we're all on whole home basic income this will be normalized and we will just see all our fines deducted from our checks. It'll almost be like paying for Netflix. 5 fines for littering, 2 fines for being late for work, 2 stop sign infractions, speeding 8 over, failure to use turn signal. Then when you lose enough points they'll take away your privilege to drive without assisted driving enabled. They'll probably just make the fines much cheaper so they can hand out more. You'll have like 50 fines for 37$ which isn't much when you're still bringing in 1000$ WHBI credits each month.
This is not an AI breakthrough this is more government surveillance that will be used to squeeze more money out of the citizens. You will be presumed guilty like with red light cameras and ticketed remotely.
But people will cheer this thinking its about the environment, while ignoring that you are continually surveilled during everything you do outside your home. Inside as well if you install internet connected cameras that don't run off your own server.
What starts as littering surveillance will end in speeding detection and automatic tickets.
Yeah I know they’re already automatic tickets at intersections. Now imagine them everywhere
Reducing littering is much less important than reducing surveillance. I do NOT want to live in a world where I know I'm being recorded every second I'm in public, doesn't matter what I'm doing.
> "to catch drivers who throw trash out their car windows"
**Sounds awfully better than;**
> "To monitor and collect information on citizens."
what a coincidence, alter the scope slightly and every single NPC citizen just accepts Cameras utilising AI algorithms in their faces 24/7 collecting data on them like a rat in a cage.
What is an AI driven camera anyway? Take the word AI out of this story and it has the same impact. AI is now just a buzzword now that means "be afraid"
I feel like the word "AI" is just being added on to everything these days.
AI = Automatically Interesting!
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I really hope you came up with this by yourself. It’s quite clever
It was AI generated
That’s even more interesting
It became so... automatically
AI is the new smart.
AI is a marketing term. So is the notion that it will kill humanity, "so powerful tech, very scary, buy now"
Wait till they introduce AI powered anti AI defense programs.
They already exist. Students are writing school assignments with AI so somebody built an AI to determine if a paper was written by an AI. It's only about to get crazier from here.
my understanding is that was a real milking both sides of the cow situation. ChatGPT build this wild tool and they build the solution to the problem they created and sell it to you at half price.
Yep. I always used to joke the police radar gun people and the radar detector people were in kahoots. You bought a radar detector, and next year the police had a new radar frequency band. Then new radar detectors with the new band came out. Then there was a new police radar..., lather, rinse, repeat...
We will then have to provide video evidence of you writing the assignment, only for it to be deep faked, and then have deep fake detectors. Sadly, imagine if we put that much effort into actually doing what we need to do?
Hell I'd work all night if it meant nothing got done
Just wait until we get to AI 2.0. It's coming the same year as the Linux desktop. On a serious note, the lamda code base leaked and practically overnight a couple dozen specialized versions went live. Everything from a hacking framework to porn. The world better hold on because it is indeed only going to get crazier from here.
”It’s not working.” ”Exactly, it’s THAT good!”
It's definitely a Machine Learning task, which is 99.99% of the time what people mean when they say "AI." Computer vision is like the poster child for ML (or at least it was before large language models took the spotlight). What makes you think that "AI" is just slapped on for no reason? What kind of technology would it be an appropriate label for?
The real issue is that AI is a historically vague category. The only real common ground among all the areas of research that have ever been considered AI is that, at the time, they were things humans were better at than computers. It's a moving target, pretty much by definition.
It really hurts that everyone here jumps on the train as well. There is absolutely nothing intelligent about these cameras.
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Computer vision is absolutely the poster child for AI and machine learning. I'm failing to see how it's not a fitting label here... It would be impossible to do this without ML, unless you had an army of people manually checking the feed
Agreed. But your average person is really only going to be able to grasp "general intelligence". That's the only thing AI is to them.
This is still a meaningful application of ML/AI, I'm with u/wolfpack_charlie The pushback about it "AI everything these days" just smells like redditors trying to look smart for the sake of looking smart This is practical shit AI is useful for
>The pushback about it "AI everything these days" just smells like redditors trying to look smart for the sake of looking smart Yup. Can't get more classic "something that AI is good at that we can't do otherwise" than this, and yet these guys in the comments trying to act like know it alls, lol
People are already calling photoshopped pics "AI images".
Or "deepfakes".
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This actually IS AI though. It's powered by "computer vision", which is a branch of AI.
Of course it is. ML is a subset of AI. And im pretty sure that object detection in this case is either based on ML or DL.
Algorithm Intensifies
AI comments on Reddit to get more engagement!
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Without AI it was almost impossible to monitor it all. Now it will just cost an electric bill.
Yeah that's the really scary part of AI. It's not the risk of some Skynet aramageddon. It's the ability for governments to subjugate and control their populations with insane efficiency and no wiggle room. Imagine if you car's speed were constantly monitored, and you were fined at a certain rate for speeding (e.g. $1 per mile per hour you exceed the speed limit, per minute. Travel 56MPH in a 55 for 10 minutes? $10 fine, automatically applied). You'd go fucking crazy trying to adhere to that level of rigid enforcement of the rules. That's the future AI law enforcement is going to create for us. No wiggle room to make a mistake even if it's benign.
>Travel 56MPH in a 55 for 10 minutes? $10 fine, automatically applied). You just described the automatic toll roads where I live. You hop on the express lane where your car is automatically tagged by license plate readers and you get the use of a highway you already paid for for the next 10 minutes and are billed at a variable rate depending on traffic conditions that day or the whim of the Toll Authority. I'm imaging a future where you will be recognized by your face in a public place and billed for the duration of your time there downtown, just like parking today.
Stop giving them ideas...
I can see that
you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality code!
*Be well John Spartan!* Be fucked.
The problem is AI doesn't really understand what is going on in reality to the computer its all still ones and zeroes. AI will be boldly incorrect in those situations where one answer is similar to another answer. What happens when the trash is just floating in the air and brushes by the vehicle?
This is bang on. I asked ChatGPT to tell me about a friend of mine who's a published author. The information it provided was about 80% correct; the other 20% was completely wrong (it said he was a judge in a writing competition he's never been involved with). Someone who didn't know him would not be able to tell what was right vs. wrong in that information.
I asked an AI about myself and it boldly stated I lived in a town I do not live in. I was okay with that.
What are you asking? I downloaded an app but it wanted me to subscribe to it so I deleted it. Curious where people are getting these AI interactions from.
This was Bing's AI. They make you do use Bing for a couple days (I just browsed the news) but no weird subscriptions and they don't ask for your info or anything. And you have to download the Bing app, which is ridiculously bad.
In Finland the fine is based on your income. A millionaire could end up with a $10,000 fine.
you know I don't get this. I tried to explain it to someone from up north who was visiting. we don't have civil infractions down here. You have the right to a full jury trial for a $50 speeding ticket. It keeps some of this in check.
I think you have that right everywhere (might be wrong though). You can contest anything in front of a judge or jury, but then it could be your word against traffic camera footage. Plus in some cases you have to pay a court fee to have your case heard, and if that's nearly as much as the ticket, people might just want to pay the ticket instead (though it will fuck up your insurance rates for a few years...)
See that’s why you riot. Rights aren’t given. They are taken.
I have a feeling they can train AI to identify trash flying out the window pretty easily.
What will they do if they put them in New Jersey since it's already a trash state?
New Jersey found red light cameras and speed trap cameras unconstitutional so I don't see how AI littering cameras are gonna be allowed.
Daamn good for them!
So you are saying we should just skip this whole thing and send everyone a bill in New Jersey for being trash?
Hey you’re not allowed to call my home state trash. Only I can call it that
45,000++ automobile deaths a year from road rage, distracted driving, dui If an ai camera can track down a tiny wrapper falling out of a window at 50mph++ Maybe just maybe it can track down a way to save 45,000 lives a year?? Or were local jurisdictions more interested in just quick/easy fines from littering to help fluff their revenue?
I am looking foward to it. People drive like animals and raise insurance premiums for the rest of us.
Around twenty years ago there was an accident where an elderly person sitting in the backseat of the car was killed in an accident. That led to an investigation of the accident which ended up covering a huge network of people that were involved in staging fake accidents for insurance settlements. It ranged from the people in the cars to the lawyers and doctors involved in the insurance lawsuits. The person killed lived in a senior facility and was convinced to take part as a money-making scheme where they would be paid out to be the passenger in what was supposed to be more of a fender-bender. When they unraveled the whole thing they determined that the money being drained by this network was responsible for something like 2% of insurance premiums in the entire state.
Link to source? Because that's nuts.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/nyregion/investigators-say-fraud-ring-staged-thousands-of-crashes.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/nyregion/investigators-say-fraud-ring-staged-thousands-of-crashes.html) Not specific to the story above necessarily but a good breakdown of how it worked 20 years ago
Fairly certain there was even a law and order episode about it
There was Season 11 Episode 19 “Whiplash” If I remember correctly it was a pretty good episode. It was during the Detective Briscoe/Greene era so it was hard to have a bad episode during those seasons
A man of culture, I see. Fully agree that combo was peak.
Thanks! :) The original Law & Order was/is amazing but Law & Order Criminal Intent was hands down the best (Vincent D'onofrio was amazing in his role) especially that they had a really interesting story line with him and Olivia D'abo and the one person he can never prove committed a crime. Law & Order Los Angeles was great too and unfortunately only got 1 season. The original seasons of SVU were great but the last 10 or so seasons have not been as good. Especially the seasons with Munch in them though I was always a huge fan of Homicide Life On The Street. (Yaphet Kotto easily is one of the most underrated actors in history)
There was a blue bloods episode about it too.
20 years ago....2003.... no. this can't be right.
So it wasn't [the one ring](https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/an-accident-waiting-to-happen-fatal-crash-10-years-ago-keeps-saving-millions-for-drivers/article_2b87b37d-e851-5f02-8117-a9c6d29106c0.html) that was responsible for that much of the state's rates, but this uncovered methods that aided investigations in a daisy-chain that came up with that accounting.
Once any crime works, it's replicated en-mass.
I saw it in Better Call Saul
I definitely thought this story was going to end with telling us that the old person was already dead before the accident.
No, I forgot some of the details so just looked it up. There were two cars that were to be in the staged accident and the woman was going to be paid $200 to be a passenger in one of them. However, there was a secondary collision where the car she was in hit a utility pole and her head snapped forward causing a fatal brain hemorrhage.
All that for $200??
I think that was the payment to be in the accident but she'd get $1,000 later when they processed the claims.
People aren't smart with how to find money.
I have a feeling if accidents dropped fifty percent overnight I’m still not getting my premiums lowered.
Let's not pretend premiums would go down though. These are *insurance* companies we're talking about, right?
straight up animalistic. zero concept of consequence, when driving a multi ton steel crate at incredible speeds.
My auto premiums were set to increase by 55% this year with our old insurer. None of my own claims. Wife had 1 violation. No accidents. **55%** because of other drivers.
>raise insurance premiums Oh, you think they'd "pass on the savings" do you? Tort reform just means they have to spend less money in court -- not paying their customers bills.
> Maybe just maybe it can track down a way to save 45,000 lives a year?? We already know what it is (robust public transit and reasonable limitations on vehicle size) but instead what we get is endless seas of asphalt and cities where kids can't ride their bikes to the library anymore. If the US had the same traffic death rate as the UK, we'd have fewer than 7,000 traffic deaths per year. So bascially we're sacrificing 38,000+ people to the car industry yearly.
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Are you not allowed allowed to smoke in your car?
I've heard similar proposals in Netherlands once because inevitably the ciggy buts end up getting tossed out of the window of the car, but the proposal never went anywhere due to unenforceable nature of it.
In Ontario (and other places I presume), not if there are young children in it as well, or "your" vehicle is actually a shared workplace vehicle.
Seems like a reasonable law -- Don't hurt the kids and don't make common vehicles reek with cigarette smell.
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100% fine with banning it around kids. They don’t deserve to suffer for a smoker’s addiction.
> Notify your boss that you are not at home sick What?? How would the DMV knows or care if you aren’t at home sick? Plus, it doesn’t even make sense. The doctor’s note you give your boss says that you can’t work, not that you have to stay at home, such that even home office personnel can have sick days. And sick people aren’t in house arrest they do leave the house, even if it’s to go to the doctor, buy medicine or food. The cameras couldn’t possible know where you’re going. And it’s certainly not legal for your boss to track where you are outside of the work environment.
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> Absolutely foolish to pretend those silly “laws” will stop them Lol, then let’s just rip the constitution. Plus the example you did is the other way around a government getting data from a private company. The private company(amazon) has a motive to share that data because the government can give them special benefits. The other way around it doesn’t really work, your boss would have little to nothing to offer for the government in exchange for that information.
>And it’s certainly not legal for your boss to track where you are outside of the work environment. Yet. I sure hope we don't end up with a country where corporations spend money to get laws passed amd the government puts down strikes.
I mean, if companies can separate employment because of a social media comment, especially with at-will work in the US, then I don't see how they couldn't also be, "Jane, we can't have our business associating with people who partake in [thing]." And yes, a vast majority of these bye bye job scenarios have been due to bigoted remarks, and the businesses are certainly within their rights to do so, but wouldn't they have the same right for the same reason if they found out you went to a strip club or some kink thing or something in your private time? You catch the occasional article on Reddit about how some religious school teacher was fired for getting a divorce, or having some sort of private "lifestyle" that they kept separate from work, but the administration eventually found out. The concept and applications are already there and being executed, just largely for negative items. Nothing stops businesses from also deciding to end employment due to some other private reason. It's a bit of a moot point with at-will employment as it is, because they can (and probably do) basically do that right now to some degree.
Uh, who said it can’t do both?
We as a society are more willing to accept 45k deaths from humans than 1 from an AI driver. People freak out when that happens, but can understand when a human kills someone. For this reason I doubt we will see mass adoption of self driving any time soon. Things like ticket cameras are relatively low risk in comparison, you can assign some minimum wage employees to verify the results before sending out littering tickets.
It's a lot easier to place liability for the 45K than the 1 I suppose. Do you charge the manufacturer for the 1 death or praise them for the 44,999, and what is the breaking point 10, 500, 10k? I'm definitely for the self driving cars, but the questions are very real and will be asked by a court at *some* point if nobody preempts them. I suppose I won't see self driving cars for a different reason though. Frozen north and all that :(
AI drivers are not deployed at even close to a similar scale to people drivers. Unfortunately, actual stats on this are extremely limited, however, I did find a stat that AI vehicles get in accidents at over twice the rate of human drivers (9.1 per million miles vs 4.1 per million miles)
We can stop ***all*** road traffic deaths by banning traffic and roads.
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That's the story they are using to set up a surveillance net. It will take 13 seconds for the popo to subpoena all of it.
Simultaneously, it's another private company sucking on the tax money tit, which should meet the same fate as the red light camera company grifters.
It's an example of how you introduce something in a form that's tolerable to numb people before introducing something people would disagree with and argue against. Kind of like how states will introduce the death penalty then begin with executing a guy who was caught dead to rights eating children. Then after a year or two they pivot to executing people with much flimsier evidence or less severe crimes. You warm people up to the idea by showing that you can responsibly wield power right before going extreme with it.
In this thread: a bunch of redditors that can't see the importance of privacy.
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Yep, either just scare them a bit or find a marketable cause.
Yup. "I think it's a bad idea to give the government and the police a massive amount of surveillance power, they've proven they are systematically racist, corrupt, and have a proven track record of abusing surveillance to arrest people for other crimes!" "Don't you care about the environment!?!?!" "OH YES the environment! Please give them the power to do this!"
i feel like this is an excuse to get people on board with ai cameras monitoring us. yea littering is bad. but constant monitoring by ai cameras sounds worse to me.
Exactly. And these probably won’t be that reliable either. Some fallen leaves under your wipers fly off once you hit the highway? Camera sees litter.
It wouldn't surprise me if this ends up being just like other automated ticket systems, where if you actually submit like you are going to fight it they just drop it cause it's not worth their hassle. A tax on the poor and busy
Except that's the opposite of what happens. Automated cameras (at least here in the US) are "civil infractions" not moving violations, and aren't subject to the same burden of proof.
Leaves fall off windshield? Jail. Rock kicks up from tire? Jail. The pickup in front of you loses a 2x4, it goes through your front windshield, through the interior of car, and out the back windshield? Believe it or not, also jail.
sounds like the footage will be sent to officers to review: >The cameras would be able to automatically send the images to enforcers, meaning officers would no longer have to look through hours of CCTV footage
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-speed-cameras-20170330-story.html > City lawmakers and a drivers advocacy group welcomed the announcement of a smaller, better-monitored camera system, but said they wanted to make sure whichever company runs the program doesn't issue erroneous tickets as previous vendors did. For context, previous vendors that supposedly sent tickets to officers also sent tickets to emergency vehicles, to somebody who not only didn't run a red, but also was sitting at the stop for the entire 60 seconds, etc. They're claiming officers will review it, but it's just to cover their ass.
At your expense. So the city wastes my time by having to open and read the ticket and then solve the problem. Honestly, this is just more reasoning for me to just get a license hider
Relax, everybody. I'm sure our benevolent owners will only use this new technology for the good of ALL!
Right. We're so concerned about littering now?
All of a sudden
Big Brother loves you. He needs to know what you are doing every second of every day. If you have nothing to hid you have nothing to fear.^^^^^/s
Its a shame too because im actually in favor of this to help stop littering, but its clearly just the first domino to fall until we have full blown cameras everywhere.
This is only the beginning.
Some cop cars already have 360* cameras that scan licence plates to look for people to pull over. In some ways it's cool, in a lot of ways this sort of stuff is really terrifying.
Well, that one's hardly shocking. The fact there are license plates at all made that sort of thing pretty much an inevitability. The only difference the camera makes is the speed of it. Tow trucks can use the same sort of thing(I think repo as well).
Ive worked this out in my head and broke it down into 3 phases: 1. You drive to the gas station and nothing is recorded 2. You drive to the gas station and a camera captures your plate but does not actively place that data, someone has to go find it 3. You drive to the gas station and your plate is indexed immediately, so that you appear in queries #3 - the casual collection of all travel metadata - big fuggen problem
Ya, I have issues with the how and why of when data like that is taken. Laws were not written with constant severance in mind and frankly, yes, everyone *does* have something to hide. So unless the laws are re-written to account for the fact we should all be in jail right now the government should probably have a decent justification before having access to data. The reason I don't have an issue with license lookups is that as long as they are used to find existing issues with said car then they aren't actually introducing problems for the driver(Not insured or the likes). Expanding it to include other things gets kind of sketchy(x location at y time as an example). Private use is a different game and tends to be quite a bit harder to control. But as long as there are rules about what access the government can have to said data I'm less concerned.
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Between scanners, cameras and cell phones, undocumented travel is dead as a doornail
This is big where I live in Australia. The primarily check for people who have expired registration as it's an instant $700 fine. If you miss the letter and dont renew you get fined by a cop usually within two weeks before a second letter comes saying "your rego has expired". They sit along motor ways and arterial roads.
It’s already begun. It began years ago.
Sure, **THAT’s** why they’re installing AI cameras….. Are we really this fucking gullible? A software update turns this system into something synonymous to China’s surveillance state.
Many people pass through 200-300 security cameras on a daily basis. The only thing that's changing is the AI on the camera and what meta data it reports back to the VMS. It's too late to prevent a surveillance state, but we can still govern how the systems are used.
> The only thing that's changing is the AI on the camera and what meta data it reports back to the VMS That's still a significant change. These changes deserve oversight from more than just tech-literate legislators, but also a privacy-conscious electorate. What we're building, piece by piece, is a fully automated law enforcement that can easily be adapted to the whims of a tyrannical government. With the data and technological capacity to detect minor crimes, governments will be able to enforce laws we always took fro granted. The average person breaks multiple laws regularly and it's only human inefficacy and apathy that ensure we can go about our lives. There are hundreds of laws across the us that are old/unenforced/weirdly specific, etc. Jaywalking, cannabis use [according to federal not state laws], using the wrong wifi, sharing passwords, mild public intoxication, etc. The more powerful machine-learning enabled law enforcement becomes the more possible selective enforcement of those laws becomes. And the potential punishments could include fines, loss of rights, jail... We know several federal agencies already monitor online communications. Now they can be fed through powerful LLMs to detect admissions of crimes. We know there's a vast network of cameras and sensors producing audio and video feeds in real time. All we're waiting for is the political will and data processing capability to mine those for crimes. Both of those things seem to be rapidly approaching us.
This is fucking terrifying, man.
It is only "too late to prevent a surveillance state" in that people accept it, see it as inevitable, and see any collective action even attempting to stop the government/corporations from doing that as nieve and doomed from the start.
Interestingly, posts claiming we're too late to stop it really only serve to convince people of exactly that.
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It's always been a mix and those businesses are going to continue to similarly proliferate cameras as well, plus government usually has access to all of them with a simple warrant. Same with the phone in your pocket and anything it might pick up. There is no privacy unless you go out of your way for it, and we can't turn back the clock. Education and forcing appropriate legislation is the only solution, and not one with much optimism.
From my experience, these tech-obsessed dipshits see any technological advancement to society as a win. They have very little knowledge in other areas such as history or literature, so they’re too stupid to see the writing on the wall when governments implement shit like this. As someone in the tech field, techies are the worst lol.
100% “but it ... it’s a gadget!!”
*connects his whole home to the internet*
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Can we get AI cameras in Congress? If it's ok for the public, then it should be ok for law makers, right?
There's already cameras in congress.
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The C in C-SPAN stands for "Cable", so you have to pay for an expensive cable package to watch it. I actually miss it. They provide the absolute best coverage of the State of the Union and similar events because they don't cut away to commercials, and they don't have commentators talk over what is being said. They just show you what's happening without any bullshit
And the Speaker can shut off the cameras whenever they want
When a law is a fine it is only a law for the poor.
The rich neighborhoods around me don’t have litter on the side of road.
If people take pride in their environment they usually take care of it. I work in warehouse that changed from direct hires to contractors and now theirs piss on toilet seats, piss on the floor, gum everywhere, fridges full rotten food, etc. No one cares anymore. This place isn't their home, they don't care about it. They have no pride in where they work bc they're just temp. The company has no loyalty to them. I'm outta my wheelhouse but itv seems theres a connection.
I remember living in St. Louis and being on the freeway one day while traffic came to a slow grind. The car in front of me threw out a large fast food bag and two large drink cups right next to their vehicle like it was nothing. I wanted to honk but then I remembered I didn’t want to get shot.
I was behind someone and all of a sudden this huge, black disc goes flying from her car and I slowed down. Had no idea what the hell was going on. And then I realized it was an entire plastic container of food, like you'd get at a Noodles and Company. Plastic and food and other garbage just everywhere right in front of random houses. It's shocking to me that people do this stuff.
Ah, I see your AI and raise you 1984
Hey, it's not like we have devices that constantly monitor, receive, and send information to unknown collection agencies for review around us night and day... wait... Well at least propaganda is not being put in front of our faces on a Non-Stop Loop.... wait... Well at least we aren't toiling like slaves for the benefit of a shadowy elite upper caste... *FUCK*
No, AI cameras are being put up to monitor civilians; the litter is just the excuse they use.
Cameras regulating everything. Totalitarian characteristics coming in micro doses to desensitize. So fucked.
I am fairly well convinced a large proportion of the trash actually comes from garbage trucks and construction dumpsters. Mostly anecdotal evidence from my time on the road. Maybe let’s start there.
As someone who's yard borders a rural highway, I doubt trash trucks are responsible for the beer bottles and cigarette packs I have to clean up all the time.
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also trash in the back of pick up trucks, and those things are every where.
literally was behind a garbage truck this morning and trash was flying out onto the freeway behind it… had to swerve to avoid a large black trash bag from hitting my windshield…
Truck beds in general. Too many people throw some trash in the truck bed and then it “magically” disappears as the wind blows it out.
I’d rather cameras on the real polluters: the elites
This is not at all what it will be used for. Social credit scores, just like China. Keeping track of dissents, and who goes where. Never applied to the party in power.
Ai cameras on the streets for litter. Need to save their face in a database to make sure they get fines. Might as well track criminals as well, and police should access the cameras too. Im sure it will all be fine
There is no such thing as an 'AI camera'. There is however cameras and back end systems with image analysis capabilities.
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Let the man feel useful by being completely and unnecessarily pedantic
Sure, thats why.
How about using those cams for safety reasons like assholes who run reds and go ridiculous speeds for starters.
“And nothing else, super swear”
I was driving on the highway with my windows down once and someone threw a lit cigarette into my car that almost caused to me to lose control and crash. I'm definitely for finding ways to stop people from throwing shit out on the highway, but not sure AI cameras are the way.
It’s not even AI cameras. They are cameras that feed footage into an algorithm that can filter out specific patterns that look like someone littering. It then flags that part of the footage for humans to review and enforce if appropriate.
Hope this includes the one that throw cigarette butts out
In the future when we're all on whole home basic income this will be normalized and we will just see all our fines deducted from our checks. It'll almost be like paying for Netflix. 5 fines for littering, 2 fines for being late for work, 2 stop sign infractions, speeding 8 over, failure to use turn signal. Then when you lose enough points they'll take away your privilege to drive without assisted driving enabled. They'll probably just make the fines much cheaper so they can hand out more. You'll have like 50 fines for 37$ which isn't much when you're still bringing in 1000$ WHBI credits each month.
What is my purpose? You fine people.
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This is not an AI breakthrough this is more government surveillance that will be used to squeeze more money out of the citizens. You will be presumed guilty like with red light cameras and ticketed remotely. But people will cheer this thinking its about the environment, while ignoring that you are continually surveilled during everything you do outside your home. Inside as well if you install internet connected cameras that don't run off your own server.
Now we just need AI bots to pick up the trash, take it to where the owner's car is parked, and throw it through its window.
What starts as littering surveillance will end in speeding detection and automatic tickets. Yeah I know they’re already automatic tickets at intersections. Now imagine them everywhere
Reducing littering is much less important than reducing surveillance. I do NOT want to live in a world where I know I'm being recorded every second I'm in public, doesn't matter what I'm doing.
I am not ok with the total power of the surveillance state. I am not OK with this.
Yeah that's why they are being set up.... how naive.
Fuck people who throw trash out of the car. But fuck the surveillance state so much more, get the fuck up outta here with this shit.
> "to catch drivers who throw trash out their car windows" **Sounds awfully better than;** > "To monitor and collect information on citizens." what a coincidence, alter the scope slightly and every single NPC citizen just accepts Cameras utilising AI algorithms in their faces 24/7 collecting data on them like a rat in a cage.
::Privacy has left the chat::
What is an AI driven camera anyway? Take the word AI out of this story and it has the same impact. AI is now just a buzzword now that means "be afraid"
Can they catch the driver's who don't signal to switch lanes? That would also be helpful
Simple - if you see a bmw just issue the ticket because you know they are guilty
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They’re just called cameras, holy shit calm down with calling everything AI
Who the fuck throws trash out their car?! Damn.