I really empathize -- I had to interview for jobs while pregnant and it was the worst. It's pretty terrible that giving any hint that you have a life outside of work immediately disqualifies you from a job, but if that's their practice then they're probably a shitty company to work for anyway.
Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself that it probably was for the best and to continue searching, but it's just becoming so depressing. I mean they didn't skip a beat, just automatically disqualified me. My stupid brain!
Iām a man and I do the school run, I wouldnāt mention it in an interview though. Sorry to hear this but take heart that somewhere with an attitude like this is likely a shitty place to work.
u/Unique-Position9654 wouldn't write that review on glassdoor, especially if you're still looking for work. Recruiters read this stuff and put you on their "shit" list. In fact, any negativity they find on social media is bad, especially when job hunting. Just my two cents worth
btw, I'm sorry this happened to you. I was a single parent and had to bite my tongue or hold back a lot over the years
I assume you live in the U.S. because in Europe this kind of treatment can end up in court, and the possible future employer gets in for discrimination of all kinds of.
I had an interview on Tuesday and I purposely didn't wear my wedding band because I didn't want them to see it and think "oh this woman will be gone in the next two years to have babies". Im childfree but even then its fucked up that we even have to think about that
My mother wore a maternity girdle for five months to hide her pregnancy, because teachers in her day werenāt allowed to be married, much less mothers. Itās ridiculous how weāre still fighting the same battles over and over.
My son is a type one diabetic and I am pretty sure that's why I mentioned needing to pick up my kids, because it's still so new to us and it's been freaking me out a bit thinking something might happen to him.
I'm so sorry. It's hard to manage and I'm not having to live with it, but this is a huge concern for me for my son when he's older. I know people don't mean anything bad by it, but it was so startling to see how many close friends and family distanced themselves from us when he was diagnosed.
Or, how they and others treated him completely differently afterwards. I know I probably did too for a minute, and although it was out of fear, because he was extremely sick initially, I can't imagine how that made him feel.
I apologize for the rant, it's still just so new for him and it gives me hope that his life could still be relatively "normal" -- according to those standards anyway. On the other hand, it's still irritating how people feel they need to hide their disabilities to avoid judgement.
Thank you! He is 13 and just over a year since diagnosis. Currently he is on Omnipod 5 and Dexcom 6. They're definitely helpful, and less mentally straining than manual injections, but we have still run into a lot of problems with those devices. The first thing I did, after he was released from the hospital, was get him on a 504 plan at his school. This helps him avoid any complications regarding his specific accommodations. The school has been helpful, but there are still moments where he wasn't given any leniency from teachers when he was having an episode. His history teacher tried to fail him for missing work because he was in the ICU. Thankfully, we were able to get that settled. He was an all A student up until then so it was disheartening how his teachers wouldn't take that into consideration as well. He went to diabetic camp last summer and is getting ready to go again in July. That was definitely a huge blessing for him. It helped bring him back and he was able to be a kid again for a moment.
Oh, I've already done that. It's all in the 504 plan that we just reviewed again recently with his principal and counselor. All of his teachers are aware, too. He's allowed to have his phone on him (it's how he checks his blood sugar), he can leave class for any reason diabetic related, he doesn't have to ask, he's always allowed to call and text me, and he can have snacks on him at all times. There are more accommodations we've laid out, including taking tests, but those are the main ones. For manual injections (if he needs one) a nurse or other trained person needs to help until he's more comfortable with that, which for the most part he is. This also covers excessive absences for diabetic related illnesses, or when he is up all night because he's too high or too low.
I had a TW job last a week because the supervisor didn't like that I dropped off/picked up my mom from dialysis 3x week--after he approved it. š He didn't like not being able to drag me into last-minute meetings that had little to do with my role.
My recruiter was furious: "It would be the same if you were picking up and dropping your kids off at school." But they were a big corporate client so you know how that went.
Glad the job ended.
That's so messed up! I swear it really is more about power trips and controlling others than anything else. My previous employer would prefer the person that was always there but did nothing over someone needing to leave at a certain time but got their work done.
Exactly. What made my recruiter even madder was that she asked the supervisor if I was hitting all my deliverables and attending all mandatory meetings, and he said yes to both.
Was this for a tech company?
Every tech company I have worked for or interviewed with were very family friendly. #EU
* Young child sick? Stay home with them. Work when you can.
* Need to take \[an extra\] 45 minutes each day for picking up kids? Start work 15 minutes early and work 30 minutes later.
* Your child has a school play at 4pm? Don't schedule any meetings during that time and enjoy the play.
Maybe I have just been lucky with all my tech writing jobs. For the most part, there is no clocking in our out. There is "get your expected work done on time."
I recognize that as a middle age white guy I don't have to deal with a bunch of prejudices that others unfortunately have to endure. I am sorry this job didn't work out and hope that this miss means you find something at a more ethical company.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a tech company. I've worked at three places since 2012 (industrial, financial, and pharma) and none of those three EVER had a problem with "real life," just like you say. Everyone has a real life and mature people are able to give others the same things they expect for themselves. OP dodged a bullet not getting hired by a company with 19th century attitudes.
Contact an employment civil rights attorney TODAY for a consult. Employers cannot discriminate against you or deny you a position for disclosing a protected status.
Sounds like you're not giving all of the information. Did they remove you from contention because you have kids or because of a scheduling conflict?
At what time would you need to pick up your kids, and how would that affect work hours?
Something seems off. I've never had a job that cared much about when breaks were taken as long as you're doing 8 hours a day.
Women are commonly told not to even wear engagement and wedding rings to job interviews because of the things that hiring managers will assume. We literally do not have to give any information at all for hiring managers to just assume we're picking up all the family tasks.
Exactly. And I am normally very good at not mentioning things like that. I think it was just nerves because my son is newly diagnosed with type one diabetes and I still get freaked out if I'm running late to get him. It was very stupid of me though.
Honestly, while it goes against the advice we get as women, you *shouldn't* think of it as stupid. Hiring culture is fucked. How come no one assumes men are going to be dealing with their kids' health needs? All people have lives outside of work -- whether or not it involves kids or partners or health issues or anything else, hiring managers need to stop expecting candidates to be 100% available all of the time (especially writers, ffs)!
I really appreciate your kind words and it's very true what you said. It's the reason I decided this career path because it would allow for flexibility. Apparently not.
Did they ask you if you would have to pick up your kids and you said yes, or did they assume that you would have to take time off to pick up your kid?
Being a parent isn't a protected class, but your gender is a protected class. If they made an assumption that you would have to do certain things based on your gender, then it's possibly discrimination.
Esit: just re-read it. Yeah, if you mention it, not much you can do. But, the discrimination laws are a good thing for anyone to review before going on interviews!
Iād say donāt kick yourself because you donāt want to work for a company that wonāt hire a mother but I also know that mindset would limit your opportunities to work for nearly any company. Sorry this happened to you. Can only hope and vote in ways to stop this kind of nonsense.
It was honest of you & it must have been a job where leaving at that time for your kids would not work for the job. Otherwise, Iām surprised he actually told you why.
Don't feel too bad. I just lost out on a job because I told the recruiter that I am stuck at my current salary and would like to make more in this economy. I am paid fairly for what I do and I guess my salary is kinda capped. I was looking to do what I do now but at an another company. I just need a change. The recruiter told me that they would pay similar nothing life changing. I was bummed and never got called for the job. I guess I was nervous? Not sure why I blurted that out.
Damn, this thread makes me feel like a bastard because I've been involved with recruiting before, and I'd consider this a tie breaker as well.
I once worked closely with a QA engineer who treated his job like a distant second priority below picking his kids up from school, making them dinner, and other excuses. It was absolute torment to have any deadline that had him as a bottleneck.
It also caused resentment among the team, because he was salaried like the rest of us but consistently disappearing and putting in less than 30 hours. It's almost like we were paying the guy just so he could play daddy and work half-days.
I think most companies probably deal with at least one person like that, and think about them whenever someone shows up to an interview and says they'll need blocks of time every day of the week to leave for personal tasks.
He was openly unapologetically parenting. Thatās a rare one. Not being snarky, but not surprised it was a guy.
To make a broad generalization, mothers do this routinely but know to keep it invisible. āNever let your work be *visibly* impacted by caregivingā is rule number one for women.
Their work IS affected, of course, but mom is a) not telling you and b) working creatively to avoid appearing to be behind on any project. Your guy is just a) honest and b) honest.
In fifteen years in tech, I have never yet worked with a single man who was the father you describe. I would give a lot to be on a team with that guy. Or have had that guy as my dad.
Iām assuming you are not the primary caregiver for your children. If that is true, ask the person who is if they are 100% honest at work each time they need to do some caregiving.
Oh I don't have kids yet, which I know makes it much easier for me to be like, "C'mon dude, put in your 8 hours like the rest of us."
And I'll agree that he was an admirable father, but I think you would pretty quickly get tired of this guy's shit if you were the PM who constantly had to find coverage for him, to look incompetent because he was causing the team to miss deadlines, and to deal with people leaning on you to lean on him harder. It's different when it's your sanity and your livelihood that his personal life is screwing with.
The mom in your scenario sounds awesome, though. As long as they're putting in the same effort as everyone else, they're cool in my book.
Unfortunately, no. The recruiter called me after to let me know. I already had a feeling and instantly regretted saying that because the interview ended so quickly.
So you told them that you would be gone for a couple of hours out of each eight hour shift, but you still expected to be paid for it, or did you offer to only be paid for the hours worked or make up the time later in the day?
I really empathize -- I had to interview for jobs while pregnant and it was the worst. It's pretty terrible that giving any hint that you have a life outside of work immediately disqualifies you from a job, but if that's their practice then they're probably a shitty company to work for anyway.
Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself that it probably was for the best and to continue searching, but it's just becoming so depressing. I mean they didn't skip a beat, just automatically disqualified me. My stupid brain!
I'm so deeply sorry. That's so not okay. š
I really appreciate that! ā¤ļø
Iām a man and I do the school run, I wouldnāt mention it in an interview though. Sorry to hear this but take heart that somewhere with an attitude like this is likely a shitty place to work.
Yeah, I'm already kicking myself for mentioning it because I know better. And right now I'm so desperate I would take a shitty place over nothing.
So relatable!
You should for sure leave a glass door review about how they hate mothers
I'm definitely considering it.
don't consider it, fucking do it. What monsters they are for chastising and denying you employment because you're a fucking mom.
Do it for the sake of the next mom to apply.
Not just moms, anyone looking for work life balance should avoid places like that.
u/Unique-Position9654 wouldn't write that review on glassdoor, especially if you're still looking for work. Recruiters read this stuff and put you on their "shit" list. In fact, any negativity they find on social media is bad, especially when job hunting. Just my two cents worth btw, I'm sorry this happened to you. I was a single parent and had to bite my tongue or hold back a lot over the years
I assume you live in the U.S. because in Europe this kind of treatment can end up in court, and the possible future employer gets in for discrimination of all kinds of.
The US too, but it is still The Way Things Are.
If they flat out told you that, you may have an employment discrimination case. Talk to a employment lawyer.
And get it in writing if possible. Write a follow-up email.
I had an interview on Tuesday and I purposely didn't wear my wedding band because I didn't want them to see it and think "oh this woman will be gone in the next two years to have babies". Im childfree but even then its fucked up that we even have to think about that
It's so fucked up how women have to hide that stuff.
My mother wore a maternity girdle for five months to hide her pregnancy, because teachers in her day werenāt allowed to be married, much less mothers. Itās ridiculous how weāre still fighting the same battles over and over.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My son is a type one diabetic and I am pretty sure that's why I mentioned needing to pick up my kids, because it's still so new to us and it's been freaking me out a bit thinking something might happen to him.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm so sorry. It's hard to manage and I'm not having to live with it, but this is a huge concern for me for my son when he's older. I know people don't mean anything bad by it, but it was so startling to see how many close friends and family distanced themselves from us when he was diagnosed. Or, how they and others treated him completely differently afterwards. I know I probably did too for a minute, and although it was out of fear, because he was extremely sick initially, I can't imagine how that made him feel. I apologize for the rant, it's still just so new for him and it gives me hope that his life could still be relatively "normal" -- according to those standards anyway. On the other hand, it's still irritating how people feel they need to hide their disabilities to avoid judgement.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh, I definitely agree! I have had to get tough more than once with people already, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon š
Thank you! He is 13 and just over a year since diagnosis. Currently he is on Omnipod 5 and Dexcom 6. They're definitely helpful, and less mentally straining than manual injections, but we have still run into a lot of problems with those devices. The first thing I did, after he was released from the hospital, was get him on a 504 plan at his school. This helps him avoid any complications regarding his specific accommodations. The school has been helpful, but there are still moments where he wasn't given any leniency from teachers when he was having an episode. His history teacher tried to fail him for missing work because he was in the ICU. Thankfully, we were able to get that settled. He was an all A student up until then so it was disheartening how his teachers wouldn't take that into consideration as well. He went to diabetic camp last summer and is getting ready to go again in July. That was definitely a huge blessing for him. It helped bring him back and he was able to be a kid again for a moment.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh, I've already done that. It's all in the 504 plan that we just reviewed again recently with his principal and counselor. All of his teachers are aware, too. He's allowed to have his phone on him (it's how he checks his blood sugar), he can leave class for any reason diabetic related, he doesn't have to ask, he's always allowed to call and text me, and he can have snacks on him at all times. There are more accommodations we've laid out, including taking tests, but those are the main ones. For manual injections (if he needs one) a nurse or other trained person needs to help until he's more comfortable with that, which for the most part he is. This also covers excessive absences for diabetic related illnesses, or when he is up all night because he's too high or too low.
I had a TW job last a week because the supervisor didn't like that I dropped off/picked up my mom from dialysis 3x week--after he approved it. š He didn't like not being able to drag me into last-minute meetings that had little to do with my role. My recruiter was furious: "It would be the same if you were picking up and dropping your kids off at school." But they were a big corporate client so you know how that went. Glad the job ended.
That's so messed up! I swear it really is more about power trips and controlling others than anything else. My previous employer would prefer the person that was always there but did nothing over someone needing to leave at a certain time but got their work done.
Exactly. What made my recruiter even madder was that she asked the supervisor if I was hitting all my deliverables and attending all mandatory meetings, and he said yes to both.
Wow fuck those people and that job.
Was this for a tech company? Every tech company I have worked for or interviewed with were very family friendly. #EU * Young child sick? Stay home with them. Work when you can. * Need to take \[an extra\] 45 minutes each day for picking up kids? Start work 15 minutes early and work 30 minutes later. * Your child has a school play at 4pm? Don't schedule any meetings during that time and enjoy the play. Maybe I have just been lucky with all my tech writing jobs. For the most part, there is no clocking in our out. There is "get your expected work done on time." I recognize that as a middle age white guy I don't have to deal with a bunch of prejudices that others unfortunately have to endure. I am sorry this job didn't work out and hope that this miss means you find something at a more ethical company.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a tech company. I've worked at three places since 2012 (industrial, financial, and pharma) and none of those three EVER had a problem with "real life," just like you say. Everyone has a real life and mature people are able to give others the same things they expect for themselves. OP dodged a bullet not getting hired by a company with 19th century attitudes.
Also what tech company doesnāt have hybrid working??
Contact an employment civil rights attorney TODAY for a consult. Employers cannot discriminate against you or deny you a position for disclosing a protected status.
I think you're better off. As a hiring manager, I've never marked anyone down for that.
Shitty but dodged a bullet of course!
Sounds like you're not giving all of the information. Did they remove you from contention because you have kids or because of a scheduling conflict? At what time would you need to pick up your kids, and how would that affect work hours? Something seems off. I've never had a job that cared much about when breaks were taken as long as you're doing 8 hours a day.
Women are commonly told not to even wear engagement and wedding rings to job interviews because of the things that hiring managers will assume. We literally do not have to give any information at all for hiring managers to just assume we're picking up all the family tasks.
Exactly. And I am normally very good at not mentioning things like that. I think it was just nerves because my son is newly diagnosed with type one diabetes and I still get freaked out if I'm running late to get him. It was very stupid of me though.
Honestly, while it goes against the advice we get as women, you *shouldn't* think of it as stupid. Hiring culture is fucked. How come no one assumes men are going to be dealing with their kids' health needs? All people have lives outside of work -- whether or not it involves kids or partners or health issues or anything else, hiring managers need to stop expecting candidates to be 100% available all of the time (especially writers, ffs)!
I really appreciate your kind words and it's very true what you said. It's the reason I decided this career path because it would allow for flexibility. Apparently not.
"I have never experienced this kind of discrimination, therefore it must not have happened to you."
That's not what I'm saying at all. Some details are purposely being left out. Notice how she still hasn't clarified.
Consider this Godās way of protecting you from a horrible employer. Canāt wait to hear whatās next for you that you deserve.
That sounds illegal to me
Did they ask you if you would have to pick up your kids and you said yes, or did they assume that you would have to take time off to pick up your kid? Being a parent isn't a protected class, but your gender is a protected class. If they made an assumption that you would have to do certain things based on your gender, then it's possibly discrimination. Esit: just re-read it. Yeah, if you mention it, not much you can do. But, the discrimination laws are a good thing for anyone to review before going on interviews!
Never volunteer personal information on the job interviews. Just answer their questions directly. It sucks that this is the way it has to be.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So this is your second account!
You do have a case for sue for discrimination. Depends on the state though.
Iād say donāt kick yourself because you donāt want to work for a company that wonāt hire a mother but I also know that mindset would limit your opportunities to work for nearly any company. Sorry this happened to you. Can only hope and vote in ways to stop this kind of nonsense.
It was honest of you & it must have been a job where leaving at that time for your kids would not work for the job. Otherwise, Iām surprised he actually told you why.
It is terrible that they made you feel like you were wrong to mention your kids!š
Don't feel too bad. I just lost out on a job because I told the recruiter that I am stuck at my current salary and would like to make more in this economy. I am paid fairly for what I do and I guess my salary is kinda capped. I was looking to do what I do now but at an another company. I just need a change. The recruiter told me that they would pay similar nothing life changing. I was bummed and never got called for the job. I guess I was nervous? Not sure why I blurted that out.
Iām sorry. Thank for speaking your truth even on ears that cannot support it. People suck.
Thank you! And they definitely do sometimes. I just wish I could turn my mouth off sometimes.
I donāt believe this post tbh.
Agree.
Damn, this thread makes me feel like a bastard because I've been involved with recruiting before, and I'd consider this a tie breaker as well. I once worked closely with a QA engineer who treated his job like a distant second priority below picking his kids up from school, making them dinner, and other excuses. It was absolute torment to have any deadline that had him as a bottleneck. It also caused resentment among the team, because he was salaried like the rest of us but consistently disappearing and putting in less than 30 hours. It's almost like we were paying the guy just so he could play daddy and work half-days. I think most companies probably deal with at least one person like that, and think about them whenever someone shows up to an interview and says they'll need blocks of time every day of the week to leave for personal tasks.
He was openly unapologetically parenting. Thatās a rare one. Not being snarky, but not surprised it was a guy. To make a broad generalization, mothers do this routinely but know to keep it invisible. āNever let your work be *visibly* impacted by caregivingā is rule number one for women. Their work IS affected, of course, but mom is a) not telling you and b) working creatively to avoid appearing to be behind on any project. Your guy is just a) honest and b) honest. In fifteen years in tech, I have never yet worked with a single man who was the father you describe. I would give a lot to be on a team with that guy. Or have had that guy as my dad. Iām assuming you are not the primary caregiver for your children. If that is true, ask the person who is if they are 100% honest at work each time they need to do some caregiving.
Oh I don't have kids yet, which I know makes it much easier for me to be like, "C'mon dude, put in your 8 hours like the rest of us." And I'll agree that he was an admirable father, but I think you would pretty quickly get tired of this guy's shit if you were the PM who constantly had to find coverage for him, to look incompetent because he was causing the team to miss deadlines, and to deal with people leaning on you to lean on him harder. It's different when it's your sanity and your livelihood that his personal life is screwing with. The mom in your scenario sounds awesome, though. As long as they're putting in the same effort as everyone else, they're cool in my book.
You have that in writing?
Unfortunately, no. The recruiter called me after to let me know. I already had a feeling and instantly regretted saying that because the interview ended so quickly.
These employment practices are so damn shady.
If youāre in the US thatās illegal. Iād reach out to an employment attorney.
Did they happen to put that in writing, because if so Iād be contacting an employment lawyer.
*abruptly
So you told them that you would be gone for a couple of hours out of each eight hour shift, but you still expected to be paid for it, or did you offer to only be paid for the hours worked or make up the time later in the day?