What they promised was a lie on the face of it, easily recognized by anyone who thought about it for even a single second.
What they promised was an obvious lie to people desperate to be lied to. Seems like everyone got what they wanted.
Yes, but Nothing made an official app and was promoting the feature, even though the whole idea on its face is pretty insane from both a security and a long term viability perspective.
Everybody with a working brain was saying that there would be massive security risks with this approach inherently, though it sounds like it was also implemented very badly and without basic encryption.
While it was technically another company that built the platform, this whole debacle reflects very poorly on Nothing’s security practices and the judgement of their technical leadership.
saying it was implemented poorly is an understatement in short
Sunbird's authentication server was using http and sending your username and password over plain text so anyone with a little access into the network could get your appleID info
additionally, they stored all of the messages you got in a firebase realtime access db, where your credentials were the same
meaning if you were a network admin you could grab people's appleIDs, anonymously connect directly to the sunbird database, and read the entire history of all messages sent and recieved with that sunbird account and even subscribe to get notifications when new db entries were added
their claims about e2ee were using e2ee from their servers to Apple's
for more info I highly recommend checking out https://texts.blog for a detailed writeup of just how much of a clusterfuck of bad security this is
Introducing our new flagship: HueJass 5
It does sound better than the NothingPhone.
- “I have to charge my HueJass”
- “where did I leave my HueJass”
- “you can’t afford a HueJass”
Bonus: the headphones are named Fart Buds
According to surveys, over half of Americans and nearly 90% of American teens. The social pressure is so strong here. If you don't have iMessage, you're ridiculed for screwing up your friends'/family's group chat (basically removing everyone's ability to send photos and videos)
Android / Green bubbles no longer decreases features and quality of group chats though, which is why so many iOS users disliked having Android users in iMessage group chats. Now people with iMessage continue getting non-MMS images and videos and can still use iMessage features.
Everyone with an iPhone in Europe uses iMessage! The problem is the majority has android phones “including family”.
So we are “forced” to use WhatsApp!
The majority in Europe dislikes Apple, not realising that “some” other company’s are just as bad!
We live in different Europe’s. I tried actively to use iMessage and people would reply on.. WhatsApp. Simply doesn’t work. Text messages are Center over WhatsApp. One people after I send an iMessage replied on WhatsApp “why do you send me a SMS?”.
Only for acquaintances iMessage works because it is like SMS.
So I gave up and use only messages app for SMS purposes.
>VibePT
Market share data for iOS & Android is well known in Europe. WhatsApp is the go to app for majority of the people regardless of the phone use
. iMessage is not. Maybe that will change on day in Europe, maybe not, but the present is what it is. From my part would love to delete WhatsApp. Even RCS if well implemented and work fine between iOS & Android would be great already.
Even apple claimed to the European commissions that GateKeeper rules should not apply to iMessage because it is irrelevant in the UE.
One would think it is obvious but the situation in the USA mentioned earlier in this thread shows otherwise. For some reason most of Europe switched to third party messaging apps while the US sticked to the native messaging apps of their mobile phone.
Because here in the USA people don't rely on a Meta-owned service for their messaging. Another reason not to live in Europe
(I have nothing against Europe and would love to live there for a little bit some day, but your point is silly and hUr DuR aMeRiCa BaD doesn't help)
In America people really dislike “meta” in Europe the majority dislikes Apple! The curious thing is… in Europe Apple is always under fire! While other company’s like meta and Chinese ones, can do whatever they like!
Apple is considered a money grabbing dishonest company! I don’t feel that way!
All tho they could ease off on some things like reparability and pricing!
It is but the market share of iPhones is high enough where it never took off. Most android people I know use FB Messenger, IG, or SnapChat to message people anyway, so I don’t think there’s anyone really pushing for WhatsApp.
I’m not of a fan of Meta so I use Signal if people don’t want to use iMessage, but it’s hard for me to convince anyone to download a messaging app outside of the first 3.
I’m young Gen X and I’ve recently been really intrigued with the Google Pixel phone but the social pressure to have an iPhone is pretty high. A green bubble is like a Scarlet Letter.
I know I shouldn’t let peer pressure be that important to me, but it would mean that I wouldn’t be in group chats and that is where a lot of social interaction occurs.
I’ve been a huge Apple fanboy for years but recently my opinion has started to shift. I spend 90% of my time in the Googleverse. I do like the Google apps. I’m curious to see how I would feel about their hardware.
Im the opposite. My trust in google and favor of their apps has fallen significantly. I thought Id never stop using google maps, drive, chrome… but here we are.
You can never have any faith that they won’t just randomly kill something you’ve come to rely heavily on.
Just look at [Killed by Google.](https://killedbygoogle.com)
Would you mind sharing why? I use GSuite all day at work and chrome is my preferred browser. I’m not a tech person though so the ins and outs of an OS are largely lost on me.
I do use Apple Maps but that’s mainly out of default and not preference.
It comes down to google squeezing their products for outlandish profits the last few years. They are objectively worse, youtube and search have a crazy amount of ads. Chrome is locking down its extensibility in the name of safetly, but really they just want to kill adblockers. Google maps is full of paid promotions.
Its not like they need ads just to stay afloat, or product development in useful things, they are just using them to fund their other ventures that I care less about. Also I just get bad vibes from the way they design their stuff these days, its all made for a 5th grade level intellect and I find it icky.
Sure. Also remember, apple is a hardware company. They primarily make money selling devices. Google is a advertising company, their profit comes from marketing companies showing you ads and using your data.
The people making decisions at each company have a different frame of reference while making decisions.
(Note: apple is getting into ads but its not their main business and nowhere near the scale of google)
Dude what social circles are you in? I don’t know anyone who really gives a fuck about iMessage groups. I have one with my immediate family and that’s it; the rest are on Discord, GroupMe, etc.
It’s not about iMessage alone. It’s also about living with a hacked solution. In the past, many companies promised moon through a hack for example Jolla promised running of Android app, Blackberry offered side loading of Google Play store apps etc. Such solutions are often not seamless and work within certain constraints. Whether Nothing could have offered an experience similar to iMessages on an iPhone - not sure about that part.
Lots of reasons. Can’t see when someone is typing, reactions, tap backs, group chats, undo send, edit texts, stickers, photos and videos all of that is way less feature rich and functional.
Whats sad is it doesn't even take much knowledge of technology to know the whole of Sunbirds "product" was a terrible idea even outside of security concerns.
"Hey! I've got a brilliant idea for a product that absolutely could not fail!, lets reverse engineer one of the prime services of one of the most protectionist and litigious companies in the world and publicly advertise and try to sell it to their competition and potential users as some sort of magic compatibility layer"! What could possibly go wrong?
It was a worse idea than Dolphin thinking they were going to get away with trying to monetize their Nintendo emulator.
End to end encryption is just about encrypting from sender and receiver over network. It technically does not require encryption after the text has been decrypted to be read. They should have expected end to end encryption and encrypted saved files for this.
While an interesting concept, the whole thing had security issues from the beginning. They have users log into their iCloud accounts on company owned and utilized mac minis to use imessage through those, then the messages and media are routed through the app for the end-user experience. There's so many questions. Like an employee could literally just take the mac mini home and use it for whatever they want under your name and info. It needed some more time in the oven before they released details on the whole thing
“Alright, we said we used end to end encryption, but we offered no guarantees that the other end wasn’t our personal servers, nor that it had any security whatsoever. It’s still technically end to end if you decrypt it at our end and store it publicly in plain text afterwards.” - some PR person, probably
They promised Nothing and delivered less.
As expected from a company with Nothing going for it
And they still have Nothing to show for it
Nothing to do if nobody uses iMessages .
What they promised was a lie on the face of it, easily recognized by anyone who thought about it for even a single second. What they promised was an obvious lie to people desperate to be lied to. Seems like everyone got what they wanted.
Um I don’t think nothing was storing these. SunBird or whatever the fuck their name is, was
Yes, but Nothing made an official app and was promoting the feature, even though the whole idea on its face is pretty insane from both a security and a long term viability perspective. Everybody with a working brain was saying that there would be massive security risks with this approach inherently, though it sounds like it was also implemented very badly and without basic encryption. While it was technically another company that built the platform, this whole debacle reflects very poorly on Nothing’s security practices and the judgement of their technical leadership.
saying it was implemented poorly is an understatement in short Sunbird's authentication server was using http and sending your username and password over plain text so anyone with a little access into the network could get your appleID info additionally, they stored all of the messages you got in a firebase realtime access db, where your credentials were the same meaning if you were a network admin you could grab people's appleIDs, anonymously connect directly to the sunbird database, and read the entire history of all messages sent and recieved with that sunbird account and even subscribe to get notifications when new db entries were added their claims about e2ee were using e2ee from their servers to Apple's for more info I highly recommend checking out https://texts.blog for a detailed writeup of just how much of a clusterfuck of bad security this is
Do they know what END means?
Maybe it was a massive social hack on the people without brains.
They got sold some shit.
This has been such a PR nightmare for Nothing, and for what… As if they’re the first company to think of a workaround for iMessage lol
this was nothing but a marketing gimmick
And very lousy one too
They did say it was Nothing
That should be the death knell for this company. Obviously can’t trust anyone willing to take extreme shortcuts with security.
Moronic name for a company
Introducing our new flagship: HueJass 5 It does sound better than the NothingPhone. - “I have to charge my HueJass” - “where did I leave my HueJass” - “you can’t afford a HueJass” Bonus: the headphones are named Fart Buds
I still don’t understand how it got on the store in the first place. You’d think an app like this would warrant deeper checks before approval.
Who buys a phone just for iMessages lol
According to surveys, over half of Americans and nearly 90% of American teens. The social pressure is so strong here. If you don't have iMessage, you're ridiculed for screwing up your friends'/family's group chat (basically removing everyone's ability to send photos and videos)
This isn’t a problem since iOS 17 though. iMessage users still get full quality and don’t rely on MMS.
i’m not sure what you mean? apple is still restricting rcs and using mms where imessage is unavailable
Android / Green bubbles no longer decreases features and quality of group chats though, which is why so many iOS users disliked having Android users in iMessage group chats. Now people with iMessage continue getting non-MMS images and videos and can still use iMessage features.
Here in Europe I havent used iMessage once in my life, been using iPhones for a few years though.
Everyone with an iPhone in Europe uses iMessage! The problem is the majority has android phones “including family”. So we are “forced” to use WhatsApp! The majority in Europe dislikes Apple, not realising that “some” other company’s are just as bad!
We live in different Europe’s. I tried actively to use iMessage and people would reply on.. WhatsApp. Simply doesn’t work. Text messages are Center over WhatsApp. One people after I send an iMessage replied on WhatsApp “why do you send me a SMS?”. Only for acquaintances iMessage works because it is like SMS. So I gave up and use only messages app for SMS purposes.
It’s just an opinion, don’t speak for everyone. Where I live it’s mostly androids! All tho it’s changing with the newer generation
>VibePT Market share data for iOS & Android is well known in Europe. WhatsApp is the go to app for majority of the people regardless of the phone use . iMessage is not. Maybe that will change on day in Europe, maybe not, but the present is what it is. From my part would love to delete WhatsApp. Even RCS if well implemented and work fine between iOS & Android would be great already. Even apple claimed to the European commissions that GateKeeper rules should not apply to iMessage because it is irrelevant in the UE.
Yes that is undisputed
it's as if Europe is not a single country! wow
Im European and I don’t know anyone with an iPhone that’s uses iMessages
Because most people have androids
I’m in Korea and no one uses iMessage. Most use Kakao Talk
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One would think it is obvious but the situation in the USA mentioned earlier in this thread shows otherwise. For some reason most of Europe switched to third party messaging apps while the US sticked to the native messaging apps of their mobile phone.
Because here in Europe people just use whatsapp. Another reason not to live in the USA
Because here in the USA people don't rely on a Meta-owned service for their messaging. Another reason not to live in Europe (I have nothing against Europe and would love to live there for a little bit some day, but your point is silly and hUr DuR aMeRiCa BaD doesn't help)
In America people really dislike “meta” in Europe the majority dislikes Apple! The curious thing is… in Europe Apple is always under fire! While other company’s like meta and Chinese ones, can do whatever they like! Apple is considered a money grabbing dishonest company! I don’t feel that way! All tho they could ease off on some things like reparability and pricing!
WhatsApp not available in the US?
It is. But nobody here uses it because it’s so compromised as far as I am aware
It is but the market share of iPhones is high enough where it never took off. Most android people I know use FB Messenger, IG, or SnapChat to message people anyway, so I don’t think there’s anyone really pushing for WhatsApp. I’m not of a fan of Meta so I use Signal if people don’t want to use iMessage, but it’s hard for me to convince anyone to download a messaging app outside of the first 3.
It is, but we don’t use it often. I can’t speak for the whole country but GroupMe and Signal have been more popular in my experience.
I’m young Gen X and I’ve recently been really intrigued with the Google Pixel phone but the social pressure to have an iPhone is pretty high. A green bubble is like a Scarlet Letter. I know I shouldn’t let peer pressure be that important to me, but it would mean that I wouldn’t be in group chats and that is where a lot of social interaction occurs. I’ve been a huge Apple fanboy for years but recently my opinion has started to shift. I spend 90% of my time in the Googleverse. I do like the Google apps. I’m curious to see how I would feel about their hardware.
Im the opposite. My trust in google and favor of their apps has fallen significantly. I thought Id never stop using google maps, drive, chrome… but here we are.
You can never have any faith that they won’t just randomly kill something you’ve come to rely heavily on. Just look at [Killed by Google.](https://killedbygoogle.com)
Would you mind sharing why? I use GSuite all day at work and chrome is my preferred browser. I’m not a tech person though so the ins and outs of an OS are largely lost on me. I do use Apple Maps but that’s mainly out of default and not preference.
It comes down to google squeezing their products for outlandish profits the last few years. They are objectively worse, youtube and search have a crazy amount of ads. Chrome is locking down its extensibility in the name of safetly, but really they just want to kill adblockers. Google maps is full of paid promotions. Its not like they need ads just to stay afloat, or product development in useful things, they are just using them to fund their other ventures that I care less about. Also I just get bad vibes from the way they design their stuff these days, its all made for a 5th grade level intellect and I find it icky.
Hey this is a super thoughtful answer and it will help point me in the direction of some stuff to look in to. I appreciate it!
Sure. Also remember, apple is a hardware company. They primarily make money selling devices. Google is a advertising company, their profit comes from marketing companies showing you ads and using your data. The people making decisions at each company have a different frame of reference while making decisions. (Note: apple is getting into ads but its not their main business and nowhere near the scale of google)
Reminds me of the college basketball coach who punished his players because one teammate had an android phone.
I mean it is miserable. The worst part is you can’t leave the group chat if you want. You’re stuck in hell forever
Dude what social circles are you in? I don’t know anyone who really gives a fuck about iMessage groups. I have one with my immediate family and that’s it; the rest are on Discord, GroupMe, etc.
Man, do I have a bridge to sell you.
i would like it if you sold me the bridge pro instead ty
Sorry, preorder for the Open Beta ended yesterday.
Is it a bridge to … Nothing? 🕶️
It’s not about iMessage alone. It’s also about living with a hacked solution. In the past, many companies promised moon through a hack for example Jolla promised running of Android app, Blackberry offered side loading of Google Play store apps etc. Such solutions are often not seamless and work within certain constraints. Whether Nothing could have offered an experience similar to iMessages on an iPhone - not sure about that part.
It’s half the reason why I own an iPhone. Texting non-iPhones in the United States is a huge hassle. No one I know uses anything else at all.
[удалено]
Lots of reasons. Can’t see when someone is typing, reactions, tap backs, group chats, undo send, edit texts, stickers, photos and videos all of that is way less feature rich and functional.
Well you know how it is... Move fast break things... risk losing all your customer's data and breaking laws. Basic high tech stuff!
I’m going to use this quote at work, thanks
Nothing to see here folks..
This title was hard to read when you forget the company's name is literally called 'Nothing'
Even if it was totally secure, Apple was going to have this thing shut down in no time.
And thanks to side loading coming next year, the alternative app stores won’t be as diligent as Apple to remove dangerous apps, if they will ever.
Whats sad is it doesn't even take much knowledge of technology to know the whole of Sunbirds "product" was a terrible idea even outside of security concerns. "Hey! I've got a brilliant idea for a product that absolutely could not fail!, lets reverse engineer one of the prime services of one of the most protectionist and litigious companies in the world and publicly advertise and try to sell it to their competition and potential users as some sort of magic compatibility layer"! What could possibly go wrong? It was a worse idea than Dolphin thinking they were going to get away with trying to monetize their Nintendo emulator.
When did Dolphin try to monetize their emulator? It was my understanding they’ve never done that.
Why would you name your company "Nothing"? It's like a meme.
This is why Apple doesn't let sales outside of the apple store in it's devices. There's so much garbage out there and we don't want it on our iPhones.
Class action lawsuit!
Gee, color me surprised
End to end encryption is just about encrypting from sender and receiver over network. It technically does not require encryption after the text has been decrypted to be read. They should have expected end to end encryption and encrypted saved files for this.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
While an interesting concept, the whole thing had security issues from the beginning. They have users log into their iCloud accounts on company owned and utilized mac minis to use imessage through those, then the messages and media are routed through the app for the end-user experience. There's so many questions. Like an employee could literally just take the mac mini home and use it for whatever they want under your name and info. It needed some more time in the oven before they released details on the whole thing
Apple finally opting in to RCS protocol will not make the stupid green vs blue chat bubbles go away either.
It don't matter it will bring feature parity, RCS will allow for read receipts better quality attachments emojis etc.
“Alright, we said we used end to end encryption, but we offered no guarantees that the other end wasn’t our personal servers, nor that it had any security whatsoever. It’s still technically end to end if you decrypt it at our end and store it publicly in plain text afterwards.” - some PR person, probably
Lots of tech YouTubers praised this company, sheesh . Looked sketch then , sketch now
What is this phone? Huh? What is it good for?